Good Life Project - Ben Nemtin: Life Beyond The Buried Life.

Episode Date: September 4, 2018

Ben Nemtin (http://www.bennemtin.com/) is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of What Do You Want To Do Before You Die? and the star of the MTV show, The Buried Life.As the co-founder of The Buried Life movement, Ben’s message of radical possibility has been featured by major media outlets including The Today Show, The Oprah Winfrey Show, CNN, Inc., ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC News. Oprah called Ben’s life work “truly inspiring.”In a pit of depression, Ben and his three best friends decided to create the world’s greatest bucket list to make them feel alive. They bought a rickety old bus and crisscrossed North America, achieving the unthinkable. And most importantly, every time they accomplished a dream, they helped a complete stranger cross something off their bucket list.From playing basketball with President Obama to streaking a professional soccer field, from raising over $400,000 for charity to placing a record-breaking $250,000 bet on roulette—Ben’s bucket list quest has inspired millions to chase their dreams and realize that impossible is possible.In today's conversation, we talk about this remarkable journey, then we bring the conversation current and reveal the equally revelatory adventure Ben has been on in the year's since his original sojourn into the world's greatest bucket list.-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So today's guest, Ben Nemton, was a rising star in Canadian rugby, one of the top players in the country, headed towards the national team. And starting off in college, when his brain started doing funny things, it started playing tricks and it started spinning mad cycles of anxiety that eventually sent him into a very dark place and depression. He ended up pulling out of school and returning home where he could start to wrangle what was going on in his mind and work his way through it. While he was there, he took a bit of time and he started doing some work with friends

and asking some bigger questions. Among them, what do I want to do before I die? Which is a bit of an odd question for somebody who is just starting out in college to be asking. That led to a first trans-Canadian road trip with four friends to take off lists on what seemed to be an impossible bucket list and at the same time do deep acts of service. That got them featured all over the place. It led to something called The Buried Life, which became eventually a show, I believe actually one of the most popular shows on MTV, led to a massive New York Times number one bestselling book entitled, What Do You Want to Do Before You Die? What a lot of people don't know though, is the detailed backstory, the behind the scenes, and what happened after all

this. When you have sort of this major life awakening, when you go on the most incredible, exciting journey of checking off the biggest bucket list items that you could ever imagine, things like sneaking into the VMA awards, playing basketball with the United States president, and then helping people in the most profound ways. When that's over, where do you go from there? What happens? Because what we've seen is that so often that leads to another window of darkness.

So we explore how Ben has navigated that transition, how it led to another really big decision to actually walk away from a lot of what he'd been building with his friends. Really, really eye-opening and moving conversation today. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk.

The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes the Apple Watch Series 10

available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum compared to previous generations iPhone XS or later required charge time and actual results will vary I grew up in Victoria, BC so that's on an island off of Vancouver. And it's kind of a utopic place to grow up because you're right on the ocean, you're right by mountains to ski, you're right

by lakes to swim. There's a great university, University of Victoria is like one of the better universities in Canada. And it's safe, you know, it's pretty progressive. So it was an amazing place to grow up. You didn't lock your doors, you know, a lot of activity and sports. So coming out of high school, I was very happy. I was, in fact, you know, I was really excited to go to university because I had an academic scholarship. I was, you know, I had a great group of friends.

I was social and life was really, really good. And actually the biggest thing that I was excited about at the time was I just made the U19 national rugby team. And this was my everything. Because rugby in Canada is massive. It's like third biggest sport behind hockey and hockey. It's just a... And I grew up in the epicenter of rugby Canada.

My high school coach was the ex-legendary national coach. So I played since I was 10 years old. So anyhow, I made the national rugby team. I played fly half, which is like the quarterback and the field goal kicker. So a lot of pressure. And we were training for the World Cup. And I was also going to school. And I put a lot of pressure on myself to do well.

That's just how I've always been. And I started worrying about my kicks at the World Cup. So as we were training for the World Cup, I was thinking, what if I blow it? Like, what if I miss an easy kick right in front of the goalposts in a big game? And that's it, you know? And I couldn't get these thoughts out of my head.

They run in my mind at night in the form of anxiety. And this anxiety kept me up. And then I started losing sleep. And once I started losing sleep, I started to slowly slip into a depression, which just slowly got worse and worse and worse to the point where I couldn't go to school. I couldn't go to rugby practice. So I got, I dropped out of school. I got dropped from the rugby team and to the point where I was, was really shut in my parents' house, you know, not social at all. I mean, had you had anything like that happen to you earlier? Nothing like this.

Nothing. Not even close. So it blindsided me. And it was a total shock. I mean, shock is an understatement. I was crippled by this. You know what I mean? So I was just, I was really blindsided by it.

And, you know, it was hard for my parents because they didn't know how to help me. And so it was a terrifying time. It was really, really terrifying. Yeah. Did you feel comfortable sharing what was the, really what was going on with other people, with your friends, with your coach, with your parents? No, I told my coach that I had a back injury. That's why I couldn't go. So I told them that I had, and I did have a herniated disc that was bothering me. And that was my crush and I was out, you know, and, and then friends, they sort of, you know, slowly got it, but I never really told them, you know, so it's wild to think back when you just, I mean, I didn't talk about it. So I didn't even feel comfortable talking to a therapist about it.

I didn't want to talk to a therapist. And it wasn't until I finally found a school counselor at school that was free counseling. You could do, it was like academic advisor counselor. And I felt okay doing that because I wasn't a psychiatrist or a therapist. And so I started talking to this counselor and he just, I liked talking to him and he, he was really smart. And, and so he started to be my guy and I started talking to him and, and, and long story short, I, I made a decision because I realized coming out of high school that I could have, I had a choice about who I surrounded myself with. You know, high school is a Petri dish. You can only hang out with the people that are in your school.

But once I got out, I was like, I want to only surround myself with people that inspire me. Because my friend that I knew from high school had started this clothing line out of nowhere and I was so fired up about it. I just went to him and I said, how can I help you? Like, I want to be involved. And it got me thinking like,

I want to hang out with more people like that that just get me excited. So this is after you had withdrawn from school. Yeah. So, so, so yeah. So to back up how I got out of that slump, I mean, this was sort of over, you know, six months, you know, longer. My friends actually came in and, and sort of pulled me out of the house to go and work in a new town for the summer. So I dropped out of the semester and I went to a new town for the summer and I got a job. I started, you know, feeling some self-worth. I, I started talking about what I was going

through to them. What was that like the first time that you actually said, Hey, can I share something with you? It was, you know, it was really hard in the moment. And then it was so much easier once I had started talking with them, cause they had either gone through something similar or they under, they, they knew already, you know? And so, so yeah, so I, I, you know, this was, this took time and it was a combination of meeting these other, I met new people in this new town that inspired me, you know, young people that had started their own businesses or traveled. And so I was kind of like deciding I was just going to try and surround myself with those types of people. I found this guy at school when I came back to talk to. So, you know, it took time, but slowly I was starting to learn about what I needed to be healthy. And one of those things was to talk about it. And another one was to not put so much pressure on myself. And another was to sort of choose the people

that I had in my life carefully. Yeah. I mean, I'm wondering also how much, it sounds like underneath a lot of this also was a certain level of drive towards perfection. You know, especially when you're talking about spinning, you know, like, what if I miss this thing? Like, like the expectation that you're operating on a level of being a world-class athlete. And like the expectation is you will perform at 100% perfection in the most stressful possible moment. And when you start to question that, it's like it's not just about questioning the moment,

it's questioning about the fiber of your identity. Totally. And when I kind of really dig deep, that's what it was about. I think it's about me wanting to be liked by everybody. And because when I was in elementary school, I go to school one day and all of a group just decided, let's just run away from Ben. And I think from that moment on, I just thought, you know what? Like, I don't want that ever to happen again. I want everybody to like me. So I'm just going to be as perfect as I can. It's funny that you remember that moment.

That was my first sort of like major, major harrowing type of experience. And yeah, it's incredible how those things that happen to you when you're younger start to run this kind of blind spot that you have sometimes. Yeah, it's like a script that was just kind of running in the background without you paying attention. And then some blend of circumstance or stress starts to bring it back to the fore

and you're like, oh, that's still there. Yeah, and you're like, oh, that's why I do that. Yeah. So when I made that decision to kind of choose the people that were going to bring me up, and it was after that summer away with friends that I kind of was like really intentional about it, I surveyed all my friends and not many checked that box of being inspiring. But there were some people that I kind of knew that did. And there was this one kid that was a filmmaker from our neighborhood and he had taken my

sister to prom. And I was like, I want to make a movie. And so I called him out of the blue. And it took a couple of times to call him because he would just ignore my calls. He didn't know who I was. And I said, Johnny, his name was Johnny. I said, Johnny, let's make a movie. You know, like, and he said, I was just talking to my friend Dave about that. We got his older brother, Johnny's older brother,

Duncan involved as well. And we sort of all started about, started talking about making this movie. Why a movie though? Like what's. So I'd always wanted to do like an SNL type of sketch show with friends, you know? And where does that come from? So I just love, like, I love Saturday Night Live and I loved the idea of creating a TV show or movie with, with, with my friends. That's just something that I'd always had. It was a deep dream of mine.

And, and I thought this would be a really fun way to do that. You know, we can, we can just make a movie in the summer and we can show it to our friends in the neighborhood and I can kind of like let that thing out and be creative, you know? And what I realized is that I didn't have a creative expression and that ultimately when I look back,

the times when I get low is when I don't, I'm not, I'm stifling that creative expression. So we were all, you know, fired up to make this movie. We had no idea what movie, what the movie was going to be about. You're just like, we got to we were all fired up to make this movie. We had no idea what the movie was going to be about. You're just like, we got to do something. We got to make a movie. And so we start talking about all these ideas and we keep hitting roadblocks

because looking back, we were thinking about the movie that we thought other people would want us to make, like a documentary, a social justice documentary, something like that. And finally we said, okay, you know what? Throw all those ideas away. Everyone make a list of all the things

they want to make a movie about. If you could make a movie about anything, what would that be? And we made this list and then we came back and we all went around the circle on Skype because we were in different sides of the country. And we all got so excited about everyone's idea that someone said, well, why don't we just do all these things? And that's where the list kind of started to grow from.

And from there, it was something serendipitous happened where Johnny was assigned a poem in English class called The Buried Life. So it was required reading at McGill University as we were having these conversations. And 150-year-old poem that articulated this feeling that we were feeling, which was that we had all these things that we wanted to do, but we hadn't done them because they were buried. And they get buried by work, by school, by life. And you have moments of inspiration where you're excited. And ultimately that tends to get buried again. And so we thought, wow, this guy wrote about this feeling 150 years ago

in his fifties in London. And apparently it's still going on. It's still going. So we're like, okay, well, we'll take this name, the buried life. And now let's continue to like unbury these things. And for us, the sort of device that we used to unbury them was this question, what do you want to do before you die? And the thought of death was the only thing that really shook us enough to realize what

was truly important to us, you know? So here at, you know, 19, 20 years old, death is the one thing that made us think about life in the present moment. But that's unusual also, because at 19, 20 years old, the thought of death is so unreal to the average person that age that it feels like for most people, it's not a legitimate motivator. I mean, I think very sadly, you know, like we're seeing things happen in society today and we're seeing people choosing the option of ending their lives, taking their lives at a rate that is just like absolutely horrifying and alarming. Maybe at some point, you know, further in conversation, we'll revisit that because I'm curious what your thoughts are.

But my sense is for the average 19, 20 year old, like the thought of let me do like, these are the things I need to do before I die. And then that deadline being so real that it becomes a motivating factor. It's really unusual. Yeah, I know. I had always thought about my mortality when I was really young. I remember my first kind of existential crisis with thinking about the fact that I was going to be dead forever. You know, for the, I couldn't wrap my head around the sort of how infinity would just never, never stop.

And so I was, I was, you know, I don't know, seven or eight, it's my earliest memories. Yeah. And then Duncan, who we did the buried life with, his friend had just passed away because he had accidentally drowned on a camping trip. So this was our group's first sort of experience with death in our friend group. And so that's what triggered it for us. And then from there came this sort of this bucket list, this sort of the most epic bucket list we could ever think of. And it was sort of like you had to pretend you could do anything when you wrote the list. We had these first couple of things when we had started thinking about, if we could make any movie, what would we make? And we put those on and we thought, okay, now let's build this out to

anything we have ever dreamed of. So you can't think about how you're going to do it or if we're going to do it. if we're going to do it. Because we didn't think we would ever do any of them, to be honest. Like some of them we laughed when we put them on because they were so outrageous. You know, play basketball with President Obama, go to space, make a TV show.

All these things were just, they were pipe dreams, really. We put them down on the list and then we decided that for everything we cross off our list, we'll help a stranger we meet along the way do something that they want to do on their list. Where did that idea come in? It was, we just thought that we would, we would not be able to do any of the things on our list without the help of other people. So it just sort of made sense to pay that back. So it was,

it was a mission that we thought we would do for two weeks. We're going to take two weeks off our, our summer jobs, and we're going to go after this list. We're going to take two weeks off our summer jobs, and we're going to go after this list, and we're going to help other people, and we're going to make a movie about it. Then we're going to go back to school and kind of go back to life. And so we, you know, bought an RV, got a camera on eBay, built a website with our 100 things, you know, made matching t-shirts, lied to our bosses at the time that, you know, we had whatever. I told my boss I had an Indian wedding to go to. So I had to take this long leave at the end of the summer. And so, and then we just kind of decided we're going to try and just cross off as many things as possible and help as many people as possible in two weeks and make this movie. And what was so surprising was this sort of mix of magic and luck started to

happen where people started hearing about our list and strangers would reach out and be like, hey, I saw number nine, ride a bull. I can help you get on a bull because my uncle owns a bull ranch. Or number 41, make a toast to a stranger's wedding. My friend's getting married. I'm the best man. I can get you in. You know, like we got invited to 12 weddings in two weeks. And then-

How were people hearing about it? So the first item that we crossed off, we crossed off, open the six o'clock news. So we camped out at the 6 o'clock news in Vancouver. And as people would park their car and walk to the newsroom, we would just walk with them and say, our dream is to open 6 o'clock news. And then they'd come back and we'd keep talking to them. And finally, they're like, listen,

what do we got to do to just get you guys to leave? We're like, it's simple. Just let us open the 6 o'clock news. And they gave us like a little spot in that. And then we made the front page of the newspaper, which was another thing on the list. And so this momentum started to build, basically. This is 2006, by the way. It's kind of pre all the social apps and stuff like that.

So YouTube had just sort of come out. We used Twitter for 2007. So there was this kind of traditional media know, traditional media groundswell happening, especially in Canada, where people were starting to see our list online. And then they would email us and say, I can help you do this. But then on the other side, they would send us their dreams. Say this is, you know, my biggest bucket list item is to fly a fighter jet, you know, or do it, sing a duet with Michael Buble or, you know, one was, I've always wanted Morgan Freeman to read me a bedtime story.

And so this is something we didn't expect. What we didn't expect was that people actually would want to help us. We, we thought, you know what, maybe the documentary is just asking people, what do you want to do before you die and helping them? And we'll do our list on the side, but that won't be in the documentary because that's self-serving and like, who cares? But let's like ask the question, learn from other people and try and help them. But people got excited about this idea of four guys just going after their dream list and they wanted us to accomplish all of them. And that was really surprising and moving and really, really cool.

And so we got back from that two weeks and we just, we thought, we got to keep doing this. During that two weeks, so you go out there and you're starting to check things off of your own list. From just that first two-week window, with the things that you were then helping other people do, was there any one that stood out that really made you say this can't end? Yeah. And in fact, it was, I think it was exactly like that because we, the first person we helped was a guy named Brent and he's from Kelowna, which is the interior of BC. And we were starting to get a lot of emails from people asking, you know, can you help me with this? And, and this was something that we felt like we could help because he said, before I die,

I want to bring pizzas down to the homeless shelter. And so we thought we can help with this. Like we don't, we didn't have any money, right? So we'd like, but we can get some pizzas. We can, you know, bring them down to the homeless shelter with this guy. He wanted to give back. So we went and met this guy, Brent. And what we learned is that the reason he wanted to do this was because he had lived in this homeless shelter for years. And he said, when people brought in food, it was like the best days because it felt like someone actually cared. And then we learned that he got himself out of the homeless shelter by starting a landscaping business. And this landscaping business relied on his truck and his truck had broken down. And when we asked him, you know, is there anything

we can do to help? He said, no, just want to bring pizzas down to the homeless shelter. So he didn't want anything for him. He didn't want anything for him. And so we thought, okay, we got to figure out a way to get this guy a truck. And so we put our money together and we had $480 and we went to a new and used car lot, you know, small little corner car lot. And remember that never forget the owner's name, Ed. And we went up to Ed and we said, Ed, this is, there's this guy in your community and this is his story and we want to get him a truck. What's your cheapest truck? And he had a $2,100 truck that he gave to us for $480. And we drove that truck up to Brent and we gave him the keys

and he just immediately hugged me and started to cry. And that was the first time we ever helped somebody. And so it was just a very impactful to us. And we thought this is much bigger than us. We need to continue to do this. And so, and we were having so much fun as well. So it was, it was this crazy win-win that we felt we had, we had found. The Apple watch series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required.

Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die.

Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. And meanwhile, you're also, you're filming this and you're, you're creating, like there's a big creative endeavor. Yeah. That's happening simultaneously with these sort of like the adventure and the satisfaction of your own bucket list and then serving others.

Yeah, exactly. And this is something that I never experienced before, that type of creative satisfaction, sort of quenching that thirst, which made me really happy. And I felt purpose. And I started to realize that this list was, was, was just a list of all these, you know, little things that give you purpose. They're just like this mini purpose list of things that I, you know, whether they were true, trivially or funny, or just, you know, some would say like not meaningful, but they were meaningful to us, you know, it was, and then to the, to the very meaningful helping others, you know, from grow a mustache to buy someone a truck, you know? So it was, it was a wild experience because we

never told anybody, any of our friends that we were doing it because we didn't really think they, we didn't even understand what we were doing. And were you afraid that they were trying to either judge you or talk you out of it? I think we were afraid that they would. Yes, exactly. It was, it was the classic, you know, afraid of what other people might think or afraid if we fail, then we'll look bad. But then we get an email from a producer who saw us on the news and he said, I want to help you guys cross off two list items. One is give a stranger a hundred dollar bill. I want to send you a hundred dollar bill. So we thought, well, this guy's, you know, we like this guy. And then he said, and number 53,

make a TV show. Cause that was number 53 on the list, make a TV show. And so we met with this producer and we liked him and we ended up going to, after that summer in the fall to meet with networks in Canada to try and see if we could cross off, make a TV show. So are you, at this point, are you, is there even a thought of going back to school? Oh, we're back in school. We're going for a long weekend to go to Toronto. Yeah, we are. Yeah.

Oh yeah. We are a hundred percent back in school, all of us in Victoria and Montreal. We take, you know, weekend along. So we sort of take, you know, a weekend and take maybe Monday or Tuesday off to go meet with networks in Canada. But it's all, I mean, it's totally surreal.

We, you know, and so we meet with them and long story short, they want to do a show, right? And we get a contract and we start looking at the contract. I mean, it's the first contract we've ever looked at. And we slowly realized that we're going to lose ownership and control of the buried life. It's pretty clear. And we start to think, you know, maybe this isn't such a good idea. Like this is working for us. Like, why do we really, do we want the TV show that bad, you know? And we ended up, and it was a really hard decision, but we ended up passing on the TV show.

The producer, we thought he'd never talk to us again because he had done all this work. And he thought you guys are making a mistake. Most people thought we were making a mistake. Our friends thought we were making a mistake. And we couldn't really explain why we wanted to just keep this thing to ourselves. Or I guess I should say control of it ourselves. And so we just decided to kind of repeat what we had done the first year, but a little bigger the next year.

So we had raised money by cold calling companies, pretending we had a production company. We'd also raised money by throwing parties in Victoria. And so we just cold called bigger companies, pretending we had a bigger production company you know it was it was amazing because Levi's jumped on board to partner with us in a major way and so did Palm Pilot I don't remember Palm Pilot yes yeah back in the day so and we bought a big 36 foot purple 1966 transit bus I mean it wasn originally purple, but we had bought it off a nudist who had painted it purple. And so we bought this purple transit bus that we named Penelope that had a million miles on it because it was a long haul transit bus. This thing just go forever.

And we just planned to do it again the next summer, except two months instead of two weeks, hire a crew from LA to follow us. and really, let's really finish this documentary. You know, let's do this properly. It was hard to film it ourselves. And so we worked throughout the school year to raise enough money to like do a proper now production. And, you know, in our eyes, production. And we're going to take two months to travel now in the States.

We're going to ask people in the States, what do you want to do before you die? We're going to help them. And then we're going to cross off bigger list items that we thought were, you know, impossible. The biggest one at the time was to sing the national anthem to a pack stadium. And we were able to convince the Phoenix suns that we could sing. And so we, we, you know, we crossed off sing the national anthem. We crossed off take kids on a shopping spree. We took kids that were terminally ill with brain cancer on a shopping spree, picking

out any of the toys they wanted, ride a bull. So all these things, again, start to just fall off the list. And we're not really sure how this is happening. It feels like kind of serendipity that people come out of the woodwork to help us. And even to help other people, people are woodwork to help us. And even to help other people, people are showing up to help us help other people. We found a guy who was terminally ill with cancer and he was sleeping on just a mattress on the floor in an apartment. And so we went to a church that was nearby and just told everyone on a Sunday, hey, we want to help this

guy in your community. If you have a lamp or a sofa or anything that you want to, and people just showed up with, you know, all this stuff, paintings, you know, glow in the dark stars to put on his roof. So he didn't feel alone because he like had pains at night. So we just, again, had this sort of a really incredible experience on the road. And so, and filming. I mean, it's amazing when, because you ask, why do people do stuff like that? Why would people start to come out of the woodwork?

Why would they travel? Why would they spend money? Why would they, they don't know you. They don't know this other person very likely. And yet there's something that makes all these people stand up and say, I have to be a part of this. It's so interesting because I've recently been exposed to this phrase moral elevation, which is a concept that's sort of becoming more interesting and more researched in positive psychology. And it's the phenomenon where somebody does something which is virtuous, generally like some act of service for somebody else.

And those who witness the act are so moved that there's this sense of contagion, of moral elevation that goes beyond the two people and inspires those who've in some way witnessed it to act virtuously themselves. And very often, like in this situation, like the simplest way, and part of the problem is for so many people, they don't know how to act virtuously. They don't know what the next step is for them. So when they see you doing something, you know, and they're like, oh, there's an obvious,

easy way for me to contribute. You know, like, let me help facilitate this. It's sort of like, it's, it lets everyone rise because it gives them a form of expression, you know, without them having to figure out and come up with it. It simplifies things and it lets everyone rise together. I think you nailed it. Yeah. It's like you give people a chance to be a hero and they're going to take it. That's what we find.

And that ripple effect that you mentioned is also very powerful. And I think it goes beyond just what most people think about the pay it forward ripple effect where I help you, therefore you want to help someone else. It's much more vibrational than that because yeah, anyone that knows you is affected or that sees what has happened or hears about what is, what has happened. And I think on the flip side as well, when you, you know, I mentioned that my friend started a clothing line in college and it inspired me to want to do something. And that ripple effect, you know, of what we, that was the most surprising is that, you know, people would want us, want to help us cross things off our list. And they were

inspired by us crossing things off our list, Because when you do what you love, you inspire other people to do what they love. And that is an amazing ripple effect that just continues to vibrate far beyond what you'll ever know. And so those two kind of pillars of doing what you love and helping others has a phenomenal impact on you and the people that you know, but also the people that you don't know. You know, I think that if more people did that, I think the world would just, you know, people would elevate.

I also think it's like, it shows people that it's possible. I think we're so closed. So many people feel like, you know, there's just nothing I can do or nothing I can do will make a difference, or I don't know how to start. It just, the door to possibility is closed to them. And even if you don't show them the way from like point A to the final point, if you just crack it open a little bit, so they start their belief in, oh, it's possible for me to do something that will make me feel better and make someone else feel better. I don't know how.

And I'm not convinced that it will happen, but it's possible. Like that's huge. It's possible. And you don't need to know how. You don't even need to know that you did it. You know, like I talked with a friend who was inspired by a play that he saw. And it was one actor in the play that it was a community theater. And it was just a, you know, in hindsight, a random play that he went to, but this one guy,

something about this one guy just made him want to be an actor. And he'll, and he went back and found him and told him that, you know, because he's now a school teacher and you know, it's, so I just don't, you never know how you, you impact people. And, and that's interesting that you say that, that kind of, that thing cracks open in you. And that's what the buried life poem is about. It's like, so the poem is the lines that I love is, but often the world's most crowded streets, but often the din of strife, there rises an unspeakable desire after the knowledge of our buried life. So once you feel that, or once you understand that that is inside you, it's kind of hard to, you know, to unfeel it. It's like a burning desire that, you

know, can get, it can get, it can, it can get, it can get buried very easily. But once it's cracked open, you know, it's, it's always there. And that's the thing to follow. Yeah. I mean, it's like when you think about the moment where you guys were like, let's just put together a list. Who knows? Like me, it's too weak. This could be failed miserably. Like nobody, you probably didn't go into it saying this is going to be a huge success. It's like, we don't know. Like by all intents and purposes, this is probably just going to be like a terrible. A hundred percent. I thought the RV was not going to make it back. We took this RV, literally pulled it out of a swamp.

We took it to a mechanic to say, hey, we're going to take this for a, you know, a long road trip. Is this a good idea? Because we don't have the money to tow it back. And he said, do not take this RV. It will not make it back. And I remember sitting on the side of the curb the day, the night before we were supposed to leave and, and saying, guys, this is a bad idea. Like I'm, you know, my logical brain is saying, you know, we're, we're, we're not gonna have the

money to tow. How do you even tow an RV back? That's, that sounds expensive, you know? And, and I remember Dave just saying, we've come too far. We're gone, you know? and i remember dave just saying we've come too far we're gone you know and that's interesting thinking back about the four of our personalities is is what you know came together we all had different point of views we were all different people that you know we clicked together to to make this thing work and we did lose five of six tires on that tour you know but we we figured it out and that that initial step i feel like is the is the most difficult thing to, you know, but we, we figured it out. And that, that initial step I feel like is the, is the most difficult thing to do. You know, when you have this thing that you want, whether it's write a book or go on a trip or, you know, whatever it is, change your profession,

you know, something big or small, that in that initial step away, starting to either untangle yourself or to actually make some movement towards that new thing is the most difficult piece. And it's the most terrifying piece. And you feel like you have the most to lose. And I think that's why most people don't, you know, and I have been in points where I also haven't, even though I know it, you know, I know that this going in this direction is going to be better for me. I'm going to be happier, but it's freaking hard. Yeah. Yeah. And just because you start doesn't mean that everything, you know, like the world immediately rises up and makes everything as easy as possible. It sounds like in your case, yes, an amazing amount of serendipity and goodwill did start

to rise up and facilitate a lot of things. But at the same time, I'm guessing there's a lot of struggle along the way too. Totally. Yeah. I mean, so if we sort of go back to the end of the second tour now, so now we've gone, we've been on the, on the road for two months. We, we, we got all this, you know, raised all this money in sponsorship in 2007. And we hired a crew from LA and we're, they're following us in another RV. So this is, you know, we're making this movie. We're just as serious, you know, we haven't taken a dime.

We've put all this money that we've raised into the crew, into the production, into buying the bus, not the best asset. And so we have these amazing adventures. We come back and we're excited. And then we realize how expensive post-production is. And that there's no one to buy this movie, you know, 2007, no Netflix, you know, these types of documentaries, they'll maybe do a festival run. You get the odd darling that pops and you can, you know, actually make your money back.

But this is sort of a, and we are now, you know, we made a huge mistake. We feel like, you know, we made a huge mistake. We feel like, you know, we passed it on a TV show. We've just spent, you know, six figures on producing this documentary. That's halfway done that we can't finish. Nor if we invest more money, we might not ever see the money back. Not that we have the money. And I start working at a bar in Vancouver.

I hit another low. I just think like, I didn't think it was done. I just was, I had this candle, this candle was burning inside me. It was dim, but I felt like I knew that we had something, I didn't know. And so, and then I was on a trip with my parents to the Baja in Mexico. And while I was there, they had made friends with another family. And their daughter was older than me, but she lived in LA. And I started telling her about this thing, The Buried Life, that we were doing. And we had made a trailer for the Canadian TV networks. And she watched it and said, wow, if you're thinking about doing this in Canada,

you should really think about doing this in the States first. And I got back, I told the guys and the TV show. Yeah. And I tell the guys, I said, yeah, I think like I got to go down to LA. And this girl was, it was amazing. And she had a buddy pass. So I was able to afford to like fly down to LA. And she introduced me to a random person who's a manager, a random person who worked at, you know, I think it was anonymous content, just some of her friends, you know, that she knew in LA that happened to be entertainment just to kind of as general meetings, every single person I met with said, this is awesome. You know,

let's do this. And so I came back and I said, guys, I think this is like, I think this is big, you know, of course, like it took another two years of doing trips down to LA, but we finally had a meeting that we wanted. So basically we partnered with a production company in LA that we wanted to, we got a meeting with MTV, came to New York for the first time, met with MTV in New York. And when we met with MTV, we had already made our episode. So we took the footage that we had shot for the documentary, and we just decided, unlike the first experience where we were just pitching an idea, we thought, let's make our own episode. We got a pilot. And the pilot was the same DNA as The Buried Life, which was one thing on our list, help someone else every episode.

So we had actually, we had crashed the MTV Movie Awards in Vegas, pretending that we were shooting a pilot for MTV. So we had taken our purple bus, dressed, got matching suits from a thrift store that ended up being women's suits, right? Different colored matching suits. Stoked out the VMAs. It was at the Palms Hotel and saw all the limos going in the back. And so we basically went in the back and had our camera guys on us. And we said, our tickets are inside because we're shooting a pilot. It's a secret pilot. And only Judy McGrath, the CEO of MTV at the time,

knows about it. Talk with our publicist. And one of us pretended to be a publicist. And we said, we're late for the red carpet. We're late for the red carpet. We were filming. So they felt all this pressure. And they just let us through. And as soon as we got in, then we opened the bus doors. Camera guy goes out. Camera guy goes out, sound guy goes out. And we just, all the red ropes start to open and we're on the red carpet at the VMAs. And then one of us gets in the awards. I sneak into the press area and I'm interviewing like 50 Cent and, you know, all these different celebrities. And the highlight was these writers from InStyle. No, no, it was Perez Hilton came up and asked me where I got my suit.

He's like, I like your suit. I'm like, it's vintage. And so we finally got booted out, but we got into the awards. I mean, it was just this really hilarious, amazing night. So we took that footage and made that, we had that as our list item for the pilot. And then we helped some, get a computer for a school in Watts in LA.

And so, and we showed it to MTV and they, they loved it. And they said, great, let's, we want to do a show. And we said, that's awesome. We're, you know, we're really excited. We just, we just want to be executive producers and we want to hire our friends as the film crew that we've been traveling with. You're like, yes, but we still want control. Yes.

And we want to edit the episodes and choose the music and you guys can't help us with anything on the list because that defeats the whole purpose of The Buried Life if a network is making the list items happen. And Tony DeSanto, an amazing guy, president of MTV at the time and was for years, was all about it. And so now we drove our purple nudist bus down from Victoria to LA to start making a TV show, right? Never, no experience making a TV show. And all of a sudden

we were executive producers and their billboards in New York and LA starting to go up. And we thought, holy crap,, this is our moment. We're going to have to really, really push ourselves this time to prove that these things are possible. And sort of launch into number 53, make a TV show. And sort of went into these, you totally bananas list items like trying to play basketball with President Obama, survive on a deserted island, ask out the girl of your dreams. I tried to ask out Megan Fox, Duncan asked out Taylor Swift and actually got a date with

Taylor Swift, deliver a baby, streak a field and get away, you know, compete in a crump competition in South Central. These, these are the biggest dreams. And then as well, you know, help someone every episode do something they want to do. And, you know, again, totally just shock ourselves with what is possible. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

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You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk. It's like once you cross that bridge and now okay it's amazing you've signed on with mtv this is like your dream thing you've got total control over the everything about it but you're also like we need to massively raise the bar in terms of like the things that we're checking off our list and And there's also, there's gotta be a sense of,

you know, like we need the drama, we need good footage, this look need. So a lot of it kind of has to be focused on you. But at the same time, you know, there's a service mission that goes along with each one of these. Was there ever a moment, I'm curious, where you're kind of like,

where any of you felt like you were, it became more about the show and you guys and, and less about, Oh, like what the, like the act of service, like it's, it's 90% about this and like,

Oh, we got to figure out like some other thing to throw in here for this episode, because I could see how that tension would arise. Yeah. And it was a tension that we couldn't figure out how to alleviate because it was always sort of at the end of the day, two different stories. So we would do our best to have every person that we helped be in the same city that we were actually doing something on our list. And,

and it was never perfect, but we, and we talked about, and people were putting a lot of pressure on us to just drop that piece, you know, just have it be about the list items that we're doing. But we knew that that was actually the most powerful part of the whole project. Like we wouldn't be there if it wasn't for that other piece. And so if we lost that, then it would just be, it wouldn't be special, sort of, you know. So it takes a lot of the purpose part out of it also. And then like for the person watching, it changes it from moral elevation to voyeurism. Exactly. That's it.

Yeah, exactly. And it broadened the reach of the, of the show, you know, like, I can't tell you how many moms and dads come up and say, Oh, I watched the show with my kids. It was the only show on MTV that I watched with my kids and in kids saying, Oh, yeah, you know, I watched it with my parents or, and I'm still astounded by the, the, the sort of like that the resonance, of the show because it was years ago. And people, because I'm speaking now, people that saw it in high school, it was a formative time in their life and it completely changed their direction. Or they were in a really dark place and it, you know, these suicidal thoughts. They watched in the hospital after they had tried to take their own life and, you know, really powerful stories. And, and so it was a, yeah, so we just kind of knew that we could never, we could never abandon that piece of it. It was, in fact, if we did, we would abandon the, the entire purpose of the project.

And, and we kept it in and, and yeah, it's, it's, it's wild. Cause I think it's the, it's the highest rated MTV show on iTunes and IMDB,

you know, still. And so it's kind of this has this little cult, you know, following that. I think it's people want, they, they want to see more of that. They want to participate. They want to feel the way it makes you feel. I think it's people want, they, they want to see more of that.

They want to participate. They want to feel the way it makes you feel, I think is what it comes down to. Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. And it was kind of a shift at MTV at the time, you know, they, they brought in World of Jenks, which is another show that was positive. Life is, Life is Liz was a scripted show that again, they were, they changed their direction.

It was sort of this pivot that they intentionally made with aspirational content and you know i haven't done as much of that i don't know many networks that are kind of doing much of that but it was an absolute you know we stepped into this machine that we had no idea what we were stepping into and and this production that we had no idea how it worked i mean television production is just a totally different world. And a reality production is, I mean, as you know, I mean, it's scripted. You know, there's no, it is blocked. You know, scenes are written.

So we go in and we, you know, go into now, we have a team of 60, 70 people. And we say, okay, you know, we want to, you know, we're going to, we're going to crash the Playboy mansion. And they're like, okay, we'll call ahead and clear it. I said, no, we have to do this. You know, this is the whole point. And that was the first episode that we did. And all the execs came and everybody came because we convinced them to let us do it on our own. And they just wanted to see it. They just want to see it happen and it ended up we ended up doing it and then we realized oh now we have to clear it to air it and they said no and we had to write a handwritten letter to Hugh Hefner and all this stuff and he finally approved it so we like did the whole thing sort of backwards

yeah but that was part of what it was about yeah so anyhow it was a uh it was sort of backwards. Yeah. But that was part of what it was about. Yeah. So anyhow, it was a, it was sort of the number 53 was a big list item for us. It was, we ended up being able to do it kind of our way. Yeah. And so this becomes a, becomes a big thing. It kind of takes over your life. This also eventually leads you guys to create a book, which becomes a massive bestselling book, leads to a ton of media attention and TV and major shows. And one of my curiosities is when you go through an experience that is so intense, so aspirational, so purpose-driven. And I mean, the definition of what you were doing was picking massive things and checking them off a list. And then you get to a point where you're kind of like, okay, we never thought this was possible.

But somehow we did what we came to do and more. Now what? You know, and because so many people, that actually becomes the trigger for a window of darkness. Absolutely. And I think that an even elevated example of that, and you've heard Michael Phelps talk about this, every Olympics, every post Olympics, he gets severe depression. So we, and the same thing happened for me. You know, we do a book after the TV show, the book hits number one New

York Times, huge speaking circuit, and just kind of with the book. And then we think, okay, what's next? And we had all these other ideas for television. So we started a production company. And starting a production company from scratch is hard, especially when you come from the talent side. And now all of a sudden you're producers. Even though we were executive producers at the end of the day, we had just done one show. And so we kind of clawed for years to build this production company and got it to the point where we're starting to make some shows. But I had lost that creative outlet again i was buried by the business of the production company yeah it's like you're doing the next logical thing now not the thing that really matters exactly yeah and and so and i think too you know if i'm honest a lot of

it too was like we wanted to get back on tv you know we wanted to'm honest, a lot of it too, was like, we want to get back on TV. You know, we want to make another buried life show. So let's like get another buried life show going. Let's, let's do other shows. And, and then when, you know, this or that didn't happen, it was kind of like, oh, okay. And then it's like, then we, the grind of the production company. And I just sort of slowly started, you know, getting less and less fulfilled, less and less happy. And to the point where I, you know, kind of recognize some of the patterns of things that I had gone through earlier in my life. And I thought, crap, I got to make a change. It was again, like I mentioned, that step is so hard to, to step away from something like for, for me, this was something that I had, you know, spent so much time building. And now I was like, am I really going to just do something else?

You know, at this point, the four guys, you know, the buried life guys, we're all still together building this production company. And the credit to this group is once I voiced how I was feeling, everyone said, well, you got to do you, man. You got to follow whatever you want to follow. And we just restructured. One of the guys took over and everything worked out even better. We hired someone else that's better than me. And as it usually works out, you look back, it's sort of like when you're dating someone

that you're unhappy with, but you stick with because you want to make it work or it's comfortable and you're scared of leaving. And then you leave and you're like, wow, was I really with that person for that long? You sort of like, hindsight is so clear, but in the moment it's just, it's cloudy. And so as I stepped, stepped away from the day to day, I thought, okay, like, what are some things that I,

I was just focused on my own wellbeing, you know, my own mental fitness, happiness. And so I thought, well, I'm getting invited to speak because I did this TEDx talk and it was sort of the first time that I had ever or we had ever been prescriptive and like here's what we learned

because that was something we very much shied away from which is why the whole brand was a question it was all about like what do you want to do

before you die we don't know we're just having our own time we're just doing things we're just doing things like take whatever message you want

yeah like hopefully you see how much fun it is and you can also feel some fear of missing out and do whatever it is you want to do. But at the end of the day, we're not going to tell you how to live your life. It's just, we're just going to have as much fun as we can and pose this question that hopefully you think about. So I was a bit hesitant to kind of,

but I thought there are things that I've learned, you know, and a lot of them are about how to do these big goals. You know, these things that I thought were impossible. And when I started looking back with Duncan, we looked at like these steps that sort of we take to do these big things. And they're just patterns. We just repeated the same things. It didn't matter what the goal was or the list item.

We would do the same things to try and get it done. So I did a TEDx talk about that and started to get asked to get speaking. And so I was like, okay, maybe I'll just follow this speaking for a while. And as I started speaking, I thought, okay, well, I guess I got to talk about the stuff I don't want to talk about, which is getting depressed early on and where the buried life came from for me. I mean, why did you think you had to talk about that? I felt like I deep down knew that it was going to help people that probably were feeling the same way. And that it had all this power over me that if I started talking about it, you know, the old adage, what's shareable is bearable.

So I thought if I talk about it, I think I actually, I talked about it on the show a little bit actually, because one of the girls that we helped, she had trouble, she struggled with cutting self-injury. So she wanted to make it okay to talk about self-injury in her small town. And so we created this event with this nonprofit, Two Right Love in Her Arms, which is a great nonprofit. And she spoke about it. And, and I told her, I said, Hey, listen, like I struggle with depression as well. So it was me and her kind of doing this thing together, so to speak, or me trying to give her that kind of courage. So did that tape make the episode? It did. Yes. And I saw the impact and because people really, it's really resonated with a lot of people. So that was like a first signal.

That was the first thing. So I knew that it, it was, had the potential to resonate. And so I remember the, so the first time I, I talk, you know, talked about it until the sort of story that I just told you, I was so afraid that I had to ball my hands in a fist because my hands were shaking. So, and my hands in a fist because my hands were shaking so and my hands were still shaking but it was less noticeable if I clenched and then the next time I spoke about it or I did I talked about it on stage it was less scary and then it was less scary and you know to the point where now it's I still get you know I still feel it but it it doesn't have the same power. I feel like I have power over the conversation, even if it's just with myself. And now when I speak about it, I have to talk about it every time I speak.

Just because I can see it in people's eyes that it's resonating, that it's actually meaningful. And then people come up and talk to me afterwards and you know a lot of parents and a lot of parents a lot of parents that are saying things like my son is is in the same position you are right now just dropped out of college I'm not sure what to do or my daughter or you know we've or they've struggled you know and I and I as I did more research and started to understand what's going on in this country and around the world, I kind of realized like, well, everybody is, you know, or everybody will at some point. And this is just sort of more of a human condition versus a mental illness, you know, condition. And so it's, my thought is if, if I can talk about it and start to normalize this conversation a little bit, it'll hopefully, people will feel like they aren't alone or afraid to do the same thing. And I think when people feel like they're alone and trapped, you know, that they might do something that is severe, you know, like take their own life. And so I, you know, I think that anyone

out there that is struggling, just, you know, I know people say this, you are not alone, but you really are not alone. Like they're every, everybody in their life is going to hit it down. They just are, you know, this is just something that, that happens to, to us. And when that happens, you know, reach out to someone that you love, you know, and just tell them what you're going through. And the reason being too, because they're going to return that favor and reach out to you in their time of need. And that's the world that we want to create is this world of connectedness and compassion. And you can see it starting to happen more and more, you know, I mean, in the wake of all this tragedy there, there is light, you know, that's coming from it. And so I think that anyone that has a platform

that can speak about it is, is a, is a huge, does a huge service to the community. Yeah. I think also it's like what you were saying were saying there's there's such a sense of hopelessness that i think happens when you're in a state of depression when you're sort of mired in anxiety or obsessive compulsive thought spinning that the idea and you know that this might actually end like i might not feel this way is so foreign to people, I think very often when you're in it. And then there's also a sense of, I don't want to burden other people. I'm not worthy of other people's attention. Or there's a sense of stigma or shame.

And I think you're right. I think like, I don't have all the answers, but what I do sense is that the more, instead of just not talking about it because it's upsetting, the more it actually becomes a part of the public conversation, the more it becomes normalized, the more you start to see, oh, I'm not alone in feeling this way. There are millions of people who have felt this way and millions of people who will feel this way. And the more you start to see, there are millions of people who felt the exact same sense of hopelessness as me,

that this will never end. And it did. It provides just, it's that crack of the door that we were talking about. Doesn't mean that you're gonna like, but it just, maybe it opens the door where you start to be willing to just talk to somebody. And rather than just living in silence and dealing with the thoughts in your head that can sometimes lead to a really bad end.

Very well said. Unfortunately, we are told to be strong, suck it up, especially guys. Be strong, suck it up. Don't be a burden. Don't be someone else's problem. And the truth is those aren't wrong. Those are backwards. You know, those are really sort of ass backwards because you think about like, would you try and start a company completely on your own? Would you tackle a problem completely on your own? No, any other problem, you would go to a mentor, you would ask friends,

you would tell everybody what you're doing so you could try and garner support. And this is a challenge that you need support with. You can do it on your own, but I think that it's easier with the right support. And there's so many things that are stigmatized right now that just don't make any sense. And some of them are wrong and I agree.

And I think some of them are just backwards. And that one of these is like, these kind of, this thing is backwards. And so is like the idea that a therapist is for people that are weak, you know, like if you're trying to play basketball, you have a basketball coach, you know, like why wouldn't you have a coach for the, the, the, the biggest game of your life, life, you know, like this is someone to give you tools and tips and help you navigate tricky situations. And this is self-development is self-developmentdevelopment, you know, to some extent. I just feel like there's,

the frame of people's lenses is just backwards in some of this stuff. And, you know, it's, I don't know, you said it very well, that that little crack of just knowing that there's people out there that are also going through something similar, you know, and also people you admire that are going through the exact same thing or have gone through the exact same thing. And that the way that you feel now isn't necessarily the way you're going to feel for the rest of your life. I think that's huge. That's huge. And I think that's one of the benefits of, of, of going through something like that at a time previously in your life, because you, you learn so much, you know, and then you kind of know some of the signs, like you just, that awareness is very key just to be aware of, oh, okay. And my mind's doing this, you know,

versus not recognizing that kind of blind spot. Yeah. And maybe also, you know, I think I wonder sometimes whether, whether it's just a good idea as a parent, as a friend, as a child, sibling, whatever it may be, to get into the habit of every once in a while just asking someone near you, even if it seems like everything's completely okay, how you doing? How you doing? Because as we've seen, you don't always know. You don't always know.

And that small conversation can change someone's life without a doubt. And we have a tendency to talk around those people or have a conversation around them. And so you see someone that doesn't look like they're doing well, usually text a friend, hey, is Matt doing okay? And it's just a simple text, Matt. Hey, Matt, you okay? It's really as simple as that. And that type of just checking in can, with no exaggeration, save someone's life.

And so it's, they're important conversations to have. And they also, they connect you, you know, they really bring you closer to the people that you care about by starting to learn about them, understand them, you know, see their vulnerabilities, share your vulnerabilities. And, you know, I think being vulnerable is, it's synonymous with courageous, you know, it's just takes courage to do that. And that's what true leaders do. And to show their vulnerabilities is what I'm, you know, slowly starting to understand is that there's such great power in those things that you think are your weaknesses, but are actually your strengths. Yeah. And also like you mentioned, you know, rather than talking around somebody if you're concerned, even saying that thing and you know, like, how are you? How are things going?

To somebody who you perceive to be rocking life. I can't tell you how many people have been guests on this podcast, hundreds now that I've had the amazing gift to sit down with. They're massively accomplished. From the outside looking in, they're living the most incredible life

that everybody aspires to. And had you had somebody that they trusted, ask them at that moment of perceived outward joy and happiness and success and accomplishment, so how are you doing? Like, really, how are you? They would have had an answer that they never expected if it was sort of offered in a container that where, where everyone felt safe perception is not reality. And so I think it is, it is important to reach out to the people where you're like, I'm not, they may not be okay. And talk to them and those people also where you think everything's going right. Absolutely. I mean, and, and I think that's often overlooked and it, you know, that should, that we could make that a social norm if we did it more often. I'm always astounded too,

by when I start talking about what I'm doing and I start, I'll, you know, and I'll start talking about what I speak about. And then ultimately I'll get to speaking about mental health and fitness and, you know, all that stuff. And then I just have this amazing connection with someone, this, this conversation that's really real. And they talk about what they're struggling with or what their experience is with, with mental health. It just last night, I got in late, went to the freehand hotel, sat at the bar and had a meal. And the girl that was sitting next to me, we just started talking about it. And she was 22. And she's saying how it's really hard. Cause she doesn't have people to talk to about

this. She feels everything, you know, she just feels everything. And like, she struggles with depression and addiction and, you know, and I mean, she was like, thank you at the end. She said, thanks. Like, I just don't have these conversations. And I think that we can have more of those conversations. Yeah. Yeah. So as we sit here in this container of the Good Life Project, having this conversation, if I offer up this phrase to live a good life, what comes up for you? I think it's, and it's probably going to be consistent because I've heard it from other guests on your podcast, but it's just to follow your true course. Because I think that that is one of the ultimate win-wins, where you get to do what you love,

and you also inspire other people to do what they love. And that, as I mentioned, just that ripple effect goes very far. So continue to follow that true course. You know, that's it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make the show possible.

You can check them out in the links that we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, be sure to click on the subscribe button in your listening app so you never miss an episode and then share the Good Life Project love with friends. When ideas become conversations that lead to action, that is when real change takes hold. See you next time. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

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The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him!

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