Good Life Project - Broken Open: From Silicon Valley to Street Kids in India

Episode Date: May 26, 2016

Today's guest is Eileen Flannigan, the Founder and Managing Director of Girls on Fire Leaders, a non-profit that provides young girls in developing nations with personal and community leadership skills through immersive travel, experiential self-learning, authentic self-expression, and global connectivity.Eileen was a successful digital marketing strategist for large tech startups in Silicon Valley. But after two decades in this field, she began listening to the voice inside her that called her to make a bigger contribution to the world.When she turned forty, Eileen went to India and gave herself two guidelines: she would go alone, and she would follow her heart completely. For nearly two months, she hung out with street kids and young girls in brothels. Her time there set her life on a transformational course that blossomed into Girls on Fire Leaders, which now empowers adolescent girls all around the world.Don’t miss this inspiring and insightful look into the life and mind of an entrepreneur who left her familiar world to serve the world in a deeper way.In This Episode You’ll Learn:Why you don’t need to be an extrovert to be a leader.How her tendency as a kid to pay attention to the “underdog” manifested itself in surprising ways.The tension she felt between not wanting to destroy the life she had created, but wanting to do something that made a bigger difference.How Eileen literally followed her heart when she went to India.The story of how Eileen became involved with Kiva, and its connection to eventually quitting her job.The surprising insights Eileen gained about poverty through living and working with people in the slums.Why it’s so hard for women trapped in poverty to escape from it.Why people living under corrupt governments often don’t speak up for themselves.How leading Girls on Fire has impacted Eileen personally.How Eileen defines a “good life.”Mentioned In This Episode:Connect with Eileen: Girls on Fire Leaders | LinkedInKivaPortfolios of the Poor by Daryl CollinsRestore NYCGrab your spot at the Camp GLP at the Early Bird discount rate! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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friendships and stories you thought you pretty much left behind decades ago. And it's all happening at the end of August, just 90 minutes from New York City. And more than half, actually well more than half the spots are already gone at this point. So be sure to grab your spot quickly because our final $100 early bird discount ends June 15th, 2016. After that, it goes up to full price. So you can learn more at goodlifeproject.com slash camp or just click the link in the show notes now. I mean, this is the thing that I've always longed for, really. I always felt like something was missing in my life, that there wasn't a purpose. I had purposeful things going on, but the deep, like, this is what I'm meant to do in the world, I feel like I'm on

the track for that. Today's guest is Eileen Flanagan. So everything was going pretty good in her life. She was going on about two decades in digital marketing strategy for big technology startups in Silicon Valley in New York. And by all rights from the outside looking in, she was living a good life and doing good work and making a nice living. But there was this voice inside of her that just knew that there was something bigger out there, a bigger contribution. But there was this voice inside of her that just knew that there was something bigger out there, a bigger contribution. So she took some time and went to India. And instead of actually going on her planned trip, she abandoned the plan entirely and ended up literally just kind of like living and spending time on the streets with kids.

That eventually led to a Kiva fellowship that opened her eyes to a world that she just had never known existed and really cracked her heart open and opened her to a world of service that she couldn't walk away from. She kept going back and eventually ended up founding an organization called Girls on Fire Leaders, which is all about teaching leadership and teaching about gender equality and empowering girls in parts of the world where there really is very little power. Really excited to share this conversation. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. I'm trying to remember, how did we first connect? Did you email me? I actually didn't email you.

So the woman that has been volunteering for me, she works at the camp that you do the summer camp at. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it. But all of a sudden, I got your email. I was like, what is this about? You're like, wait a minute. I must have said something.

I would have never. Only because I'm terribly shy and I've never done anything like it, but I'm honored. Well, that's actually really fascinating to me. You describe yourself as terribly shy, but from the outside looking in from everything that you've created, talk to me about this a little bit. So I grew up very shy. And how did that manifest itself? What do you remember?

Yeah, just hiding hiding in like public space. So one-on-one, I'm fine and I have a lot of energy. But put me in front of a crowd, forget about it. Unless I had a PowerPoint at my job in corporate world, if I had a PowerPoint to go by. But if I was being exposed, that was, yeah. So, I mean, I grew up shy. I mean, it's interesting because, you know, I describe myself very much as an introvert, but I love being on stage. But when I'm off stage, I'm done. Like, I don't want to be around people

anymore. But it is like, there's this, I think there's this image of the person of like anybody who goes out into the world and does something big where there's sort of a fairly high level of profile. Like you just must be a raging extrovert because how could you do that if you weren't? Yeah. And you're going out into the world and doing big things and you're not. Yeah. Do you distinguish between shy and being introverted? No, I'm extroverted.

I love people. Yeah. I love situations with people. So you're a shy extrovert. Yeah. I think, well, it's shy in certain situations. So being on stage or being terribly exposed is terrifying. Even though one-on-one, you can tell you anything.

But yeah, no, I was explaining to a friend earlier today and I was like, I would rather go to Somalia than do this interview. And I was like, in Syria might be up there. I'm not exactly sure I had to take that. This man is evil. No, no, no. But, you know, I'm also like a doer. So I could navigate. So basically I have skill sets built around me in certain situations and being on a podcast or having my voice as something that people may want to connect with doesn't like, I don't, I never

think about that. Do you know what I mean? No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I do. Let's go back in your life a little bit. You know how this goes.

You've listened for those who are like, you can't see her head is in her hand and she's shaking. Not there, man. Sure, let's go. So right now you're the founder and you lead this really cool organization that we're going to talk about a whole bunch more. But you were leading a very different career and a different life for the better part of two decades before that, right? So take me there a little bit. Yeah.

Take you to. To that career, to the way that you spent the vast majority of your working life, I guess. I was in digital marketing. And so I was in Silicon Valley when it was the dot com and all that. So that's really exciting. And before that, actually, I have a background. My undergrad degree was in psychology and sociology. And I did, at a very early age, wanted to kind of help out. And I had that inkling to do that. However, the opportunities that were afforded to me at that time, I didn't see any pathway other than being a social worker. And my experience with that was not something that I wanted to do. So it was, I was, I went to UCLA. And so I did a lot of volunteer work in the hospital. So then I got out of college and then it was like, you get a job,

you need a job. And the first job that, that I got was marketing. And I was like, you get a job, you need a job. And the first job that I got was marketing. And I was like, oh, okay, this kind of brings in behaviors of people. And it was fine, you know. And then I went, got my business degree, because that's what you did. There was like certain steps. And then at some point, I ended up in digital marketing, working for a small organization in Silicon Valley. So really entrepreneurial. And then it got bought out by AT&T and then it wasn't. And I just got kind of

got sucked into that for many years. So you mentioned that you knew you had a bug for service at a pretty young age. Right. Take me more into that. Yeah. When I think about the girls that I work with are really young. So there's six to 13 right now. And there's been a lot of research around this age and girls especially. And part of Girls on Fire is exposing them to their service work and service in the community. So at a young age, I remember watching 60 Minutes. I remember seeing orphans in Romania, I think it was. Do you remember that whole scandal? I was like completely shattered and heartbroken. How old were you? Like the same age as the girls, like eight maybe. And my parents weren't home. So when they came home, I had a whole plan devised about how we're going to adopt an orphan. There was already six kids. So what's another kid? And the orphan could live in my closet and I had already made a bed. And then I just like, didn't let it go.

Finally, my teachers and parents were like, stop, stop talking about it. So I think that was, that was like my first memory of deep in my heart feeling like I have something to offer the world and that thing can vividly, I think at least it's pretty unusual. I mean, did you experience that as being unusual or were you sort of somebody who had a high level of compassion and empathy at a young age just generally, or was it really, there was just something that got triggered in this one moment? Well, I think I was pretty, so when I say it's kind of wrapped up with shyness, I think, is being really, really sensitive. So I was like the sensitive child of the siblings. And there were five other people.

Yeah. And that wasn't necessarily like a good thing, you know. And the orphan story, I remember it was months. I was crying and just like staying up in bed thinking like, we have enough food, we have a house, why can't we share it? And there wasn't really outlets for me to do that. Like my teachers were like, stop. My parents were like, stop, we can't deal with this. We already have six kids. Like this is an annoyance. Or at least that's my memory of it. I think I, yeah, I always, I always sort of made friends with the underdogs and tried to like

suss out, like I always paid attention to, to my surroundings, I guess. And apparently that followed you. I mean, was it, was that a thread that kind of stayed lit or did it then kind of go away and then reemerge years, years later? It completely went away, to be honest. I mean, I'm sure it was in some ways still there, but it wasn't manifested in my life. I tried to have it manifest by the career path I took in college, going with psychology and sociology. Then the things I did, I was looking around and I was like, that's not the person I want to be. I didn't see people working in the

sociology field as really bright, at least where I was at that time. And I didn't really have a lot of guidance. I thought there was kind of like one path, but it was always like, even when I had my corporate job, I always had a service project I was doing on the side and pretty involved in different types of work. Yeah. So what were, what were some of the service projects? Here in New York, I worked with an organization called Restore. And so they help girls and women that have been sex trafficked into New York. There's over 100,000 girls and women. In New York? Yeah. It's crazy.

There's like, yeah. Wow. They have a house in Queens. And then I think they have another house now. So this was, I volunteered for them during their gala season and then was like chair of their gala. That was probably 2010 and 11. But yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. And then they get dispersed to other parts of the US, Portland, Oregon being a really big hub. I know. I know. It was crazy. You're looking at my face. I'm like, because you hear stories about that. And I mean, the stories that I hear, of course, it's horrifying and heartbreaking. But the stories that would stick in my mind are not in the major U.S. hubs. So to just hear 100,000 girls are trafficked through my home is horrifying.

Yeah. Yeah. And then to another city that I love, Portland. Right. Wow. Wow. That's wow. Right. Right. I do it. I read every single book and, you know, get online and watch all the webinars and, and really like get deep into it. And that was really, really surprising. So was that the thing that began to spark you to make this more part of what you do? Or was there something else that happened after that? So at that time, I still had my corporate job. I still didn't see. So what I was searching for for probably a good 10 years was how, you know, I had built a certain career and have invested in it. I wouldn't say I loved it. It didn't light me up, but I had other things. I also had a jewelry business for five years in

San Francisco that was going really, really well, but I didn't leap off into that. I was always searching for that opportunity that was going to equal my corporate lifestyle, I guess. Or I didn't see a path. The stories you hear about nonprofit is and this is this is 10 years ago that everyone is poor and not you know like it's just like you have to sacrifice so much to do it and I was just like wow I have student debts and all these other things like how is this going to work okay so I'll just go and do this on the side and I I did the whole like, you know, showing up at events and writing the check. And then at some point that didn't feel good. Like I really needed the direct service. And I think, I think like I had a secret dream when I was very young that I wanted to be in the

Peace Corps. And I never did that. And so now the work I'm doing is just out in the field. And I think that's fulfilling that long lost thing. Yeah. I want to touch on something because it's a conversation. It's something that you've come back to a number of times now. And I'm searching the back of the heads of a number of people who are listening, which is that there's this deep yearning for something more and searching and trying a whole bunch of different things. And for a lot of people, I think a really deep desire to be of service on a totally different level.

But when that really begins to tug at you a little bit later in life, where you've got responsibilities, you've got money, you've got the rent, you've got the family, whatever it is, there's this sort of popular self-help wisdom. Just throw it all away. Don't listen to anybody who doesn't support you.

And then there's the practical. Our community tends to be grownups who we don't want to blow up our lives. We really want to do something powerful and we want to be of service. But we're not particularly looking forward to just completely destroying everything that we've created. And I hear that tension. You've circled back to it a few times now. Is that something that you're sort of like, that's on the surface that you are aware of that you dance with on a regular basis? Yeah, I mean, I think so. That was the main thing that kept me where I was. And it was, I allowed myself a trip to India when I turned 40. And there was two sort of requirements that I was really clear on. One is I would go alone.

Two is I would follow my heart completely, like really completely. And so, and it was going to be seven weeks. So I was practicing yoga at the time. I was, had researched and read books of all these gurus and thought I would go into their ashram and what have you. I didn't do anything I thought I was going to do. So all the things that I had dreamed about doing in India, I didn't do any of those. I ended up in Varanasi with street kids and giving them my iPhone and giving them an extra camera I had and say, show me your world and let's go explore together. And that really taught me, I just really hung out with street kids. That really taught me that I don't have to have it all figured out. It's just like the next step

is good enough. Do you know what I mean? And it's like just that intense trust that the path will appear, right? And that what I'm doing and the way that I'm following my heart is important and it will appear. Do you know what I mean by that? Yeah. So what happened when you got there? Because you seem like somebody, like you said, like you research, you read everything, you plan it out. What happened when you hit the ground in India that made you blow up the plan and say, I'm going to spend the next seven weeks with street kids? Yeah. I don't know if it happened right away, but I think it was just this like fierce commitment to following my heart and realize that sometimes in order to completely

follow your heart as an adult, we don't have that luxury sometimes, right? We have kids and this and that, like you said, rent to pay and all this stuff. And so it was just like these seven weeks, I'm going to wake up every day and say like, what do I feel like doing? And during that process, I really became evident to me that I was really disconnected from that, which surprised me. And so it wasn't just like I landed an organization and I was like, I'm going to volunteer here because I didn't do that. I literally went to the streets and started connecting with these kids and then would hang out with them. And then I'd be like, okay, now I want to go up north. We'd do that. I would, and you know, it's just like,

kids were just like all of a sudden really attracted to me. And that's what was happening. Yeah. I mean, maybe it was because you were really, for some reason, there was something inside of you that was really attracted to them. Right, right. And there was, so I think when I look back on it, there was, what I remember thinking and feeling at the time is when I gave these street kids my iPhone. And they were searching through photos and singing songs. And meanwhile, I had bought them lunch and there was lunch right here and they hadn't eaten all day. And they were more engaged with that. And we would play a song and start singing it. And then at the end, the thing that they were most grateful for, they said, we can't even believe you essentially trusted us enough to give us your phone. You know, they gave it back.

But I think it's just this intimacy that happened that was sort of magical. Because I think they were saying to me, like, wow, you showed me I mattered. And it's not about the food you bought me. It's just sort of seeing them. Yeah. And elevating them to not, you know, because I know somebody who was homeless for a solid chunk of time and then started a project called Invisible People where he would go around filming people who live in the streets in the US.

And what he said was that, you know, when you live on the streets, what a lot of people don't realize is that you become invisible, that people just act as if they don't see you. Like you're, it's not even that like you're a lesser human. It's like you don't exist. Right. And so I wonder if what was happening there is not only are they feel like they're being seen, but to be, yeah, the act of letting them hold something that was technologically dear to you and had all of these things that you didn't want to go away was like you telling them you're human, you have value, which was not your intention, I'm guessing. Right. No, I mean, yeah, no, that was, I mean, yeah, eventually. and by the end of the seven weeks I was literally going into

brothels and hanging out with young girls and trying to talk with the brothel owners and that was hanging out with them taking them to dinner by the end of it we're just hugging me and we're just like loving on each other. But then they had to go back to the brothel. And so that whole system was something I was completely unprepared for. Like that was, I met these girls on the street and I said, hey, look, like come to dinner with me. Completely unprepared for that. Tried to go through with the police to get the madam arrested. That didn't work.

We're all in it together. Yeah. So what did that do to you, the whole experience? Or for you? Right. So that experience, I ended up meeting someone on that trip. He was a big finance guy in New York. He was about my same age.

And he ended up doing, he just finished doing the Kiva Fellowship, a Kiva Fellowship. And I, do you know Kiva? Yeah, sure. But for those who don't know, what is the Kiva Fellowship? Right. So Kiva is an online platform and they support, you can support entrepreneurs all around the world through microloans, very small microloans. So he did that. And I just remembered, I just remember connecting to like, that's a possibility for my life because the fellowship's only four months. It was a diving off point to how do I actually quit my job and then what's next sort of thing. So I ended up doing two fellowships in India and in Kenya. What were you actually doing?

Yeah. So you work with, so my first fellowship, I worked with microfinance institutes. And so when you give money through Kiva, they work with partners and these partners are microfinance institutes. And so they do their due diligence by sending fellows out there. And so you'll be helping them really do anything, training their borrowers around financial literacy, what their commitments are to a loan. You might work with your partner on spreadsheets and like all that stuff. What was that like for you? It was difficult. Like the first fellowship I was in Manipur and Manipur is it's a closed, it was a closed military state in Northeast India. It's on the border of Myanmar. And so it was closed. It's near Assam and those five other states. And so when I arrived there, I was probably the first woman that's ever been there by herself and probably the first non-religious missionary because everyone was very, very, very shocked.

And I couldn't live alone. I couldn't go outside alone. Because it wasn't safe? Yeah, it wasn't safe. I wasn't targeted. So I wasn't targeted. It was just, there was a lot of insurgencies that were in that region. So there would be like bond blasts, roadside bond blasts and things like that. But I never felt targeted by anyone. But the thing that happened in sort of the red thread that happened there for me was the first time I really understood from a deep level what women and men are going through when they live in poverty in developing worlds. And so there's a

great book called The Profiles of the Poor and how intricate the financial life of a poor person actually is. And so I saw it for myself. There's a woman that has five or six jobs just to live on less than $1.25 a day. And then you start to really, it's just really fascinating. And then, so one of the things that happened to me when I was there was I kept on asking all the women like, what is your dream? Let's talk about that. And it's just like complete blank stares. They could not even answer that question. And I thought to myself, I mean, I asked it probably 50, 100 women and probably got two responses that looked something like, I want my son to get an education. And then I thought, wow, when you live in such deep poverty, you are in survival mode and you don't have the reserve to

even think about your dreams sometime, you know, especially if you're a mother, six jobs and have kids. And so I, so a friend of mine from another organization, um, she's, she, she had this woman's organization was like, everyone, you're the talk of the town. Come and give a talk. And I was like, okay, well, why don't I come and screen Nicholas Kristof's Half the Sky? And we can have discussions around that. And so lo and behold, these women come. The place was packed, probably 100 people, women with babies on their back that have traveled five hours on top of trucks to come. And so the electricity goes out. And then the woman says to me, okay, Elaine, so why don't you tell all the women here who are leaders in their own villages,

how to unlock their true potential into leadership? And I was like, yikes. What I did was we all just put our chairs in a circle and we started with just questions. And it was questions basically like, why are you here? Are you married? Do you have a dowry? And I would say something like, why are you here? Because I'm volunteering. Why would you volunteer here? We don't understand. And then it came down to, well, I love you. And they just, these women just completely, I saw them completely just soften. And then it was like real conversation from that point on. And they started asking me questions.

How do I get my husband not to hit me every day? How do you live in fear every day? Stuff like that. And so I was really curious about that. And it's something that has stuck with me because when we deal with issues of poverty, sometimes like when I did the Kiva fellowship, I thought it was one dimensional. You give people money, you give them some skills, they pay back the money, they raise them and their families out of poverty but it's never that one-dimensional with those women in that in that area they're dealing with violence against them

every single day so if they're being beaten every day they're not going to pay back their money they're not getting out of poverty there's just so much that goes into it that I got to see firsthand and got to experience firsthand. It sounds like that is not what you thought you were signing up for. No. So where do you go from there? Yeah. So I did another fellowship. So I went to Kenya. And the reason why I wanted to go to Kenya was Kiva had a project called Kiva Zip and it was using M-Pesa technology which is mobile platforms, mobile money to do direct loans. So instead of going through microfinance institutes you can literally give a loan directly. So I thought that would be great because I have this technology background

and that uses technology. And so I did that and I was working with about a hundred nonprofits. And so my role there was to create basically a community of nonprofits that could provide support for each other because Kiva was under-resourced and it was kind of a network model. So how do you get organizations that have complementary models to work together? With that, I got to see on the ground what all of these organizations are doing, social enterprises, nonprofits, religious community leaders. So that was really fascinating. And it also gave me the breath of what's happening on the ground, right? So worked with Kiva on another fellowship for another five months. In your mind, is this like, okay, I've left my career, like I'm starting down a new path?, is this like, okay, I've left my career.

Like I'm starting down a new path or is this still sort of like an intermission where you're like, what's going on? It was like a four month sabbatical. Okay. That ended up being now forever. I think I probably, I mean, I tried for 10 years having it be this grand big plan, but then it was like, okay, I can do four months.

I have enough saved. I could still have everything. Like I can rent out my apartment, all that stuff. So all the logistics of life I can figure out. And then I was out in the field and I was like, wow, this is, this is what I want to be doing. And I'm just starting. So I need more experience. So then I was like, okay, another four months. Then I even tried to come after that. I even tried to come back to New York and figure out like, oh, okay, I need a real job now. And okay, I'll go into social enterprises because that's like, brings in something I really care about. So it's funny, you still touch back to like any, but, but I need to go and still do that like sustainable, like financial. Right, right. It's like, there's this reversion to the mean. Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean,

and it's so hardwired into us. So hardwired. Like my dad had the same job. He started at 18 and retired with that company. And my mom, the same school teacher all of her whole life. And six kids. Yeah. And six kids. Right. So it's, it was, so I definitely have that side of me, like nose to the grindstone, hard work ethic. And if I'm doing anything other than getting a paycheck every two weeks, then it's not worthwhile or I'm fooling around in life. Even though I know that's not true, obviously. That's sort of like the parentals of Saddlewise has been planted in you for decades.

Right, right, right. So I came back to New York and spent a few months here and things weren't clicking. My heart wasn't into it. Was your heart clearly still over there? Yeah, my heart was really clearly over there for a few reasons. I had worked with Kiva. I had discovered through that experience that poverty is so much more than just finances. And I wanted to explore what that was about. And I wanted the freedom to do that on my own terms, basically. So I went back to Kenya and basically consulted with a lot of different organizations, from small organizations to bigger organizations, community-run organizations by a local

to a Western-run organization, just to try to get an understanding of the complexity of international development, for lack of a better term. So I did that. I worked with a lot of different tribes, discovered to do sustainable good work in the world is very complex. It's not just only about finding good partners. It's not even about finding money. I wanted to understand all of those things. Yeah. I mean, what is it? Or is it, is there no single answer to that question? I don't think there's any. It's a complex ecosystem. Yeah. I started Girls on Fire based upon a lot of this inquiry.

So tell me about that. Yeah. So as we know, aid creates a dependency, and it's pretty prevalent everywhere. But I can speak to Kenya. Even when you are delivering a loan product, for instance, and you're going through massive trainings about this loan needs to be paid back and here are your financial responsibilities. If you were delivering that to a certain age group, they've been dependent on aid. So it just doesn't even register that that's the truth? Right, right. I think generally it doesn't register. I think there's a deep-seated dependency on foreign aid and NGO work. There's a lot, a lot of it in Kenya.

So what does that do to people? I think when you think about living to your fullest potential, part of that is having the belief that you can make things happen, right? You make your dreams happen and provide for your family, things like that. When there's a model of dependency, it's like you're not – I've seen people not answer the question, like, what is your dream? Do you know what I mean? Right. Because you've so lost the belief that anything but your current reality is possible. Right. That you don't even believe belief that anything but your current reality is possible. Right.

That you don't even believe in the notion of self-determination. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And self-sufficiency. Right. Right. So you just assume that you have no control over your future and that you're basically reliant on whatever is given.

Right. Right. And so with that, it becomes a control mechanism as well for governments. Kenya is one of the most corrupt countries in the world, so is India. And I've seen that firsthand. There's so much corruption and so much human rights violations that I'm always in awe that people don't speak up for themselves or others when I see this. Is it fear that stops people? I mean, fear of reprisal or? Yeah, I'm sure it's some of that. Or is it just like, again, that disempowerment,

like it doesn't matter if I speak up, nothing's going to change. It doesn't matter that I speak up. I think it's a combination of both of those. I mean, Kenya's not known government to do like torture and things like that. But it's more like what I say doesn't matter. It's not going to make a difference. Nothing's going to change. We've lived like this our whole life. And so that's the bad side.

And dependency on aid is like the good side of it. But still, it's reinforcing a behavior that what that, you know, like, my determination to make my dreams happen is limited. Yeah, yeah, it keeps a cap. It keeps a cap. Yeah, for sure. So what so you ended up starting your own organization. Right. So what was that about? So I went back and worked with all these different organizations and saw some great weekends, my friend invited me to hang out with these girls, basically. And so the organization where these girls get their services is called Shining Hope a girl's education in the slums to community services, to clean water, to food, to jobs for their parents, medical care for their families. So with that, you start to change mindsets around the value of a girl's education. So a father in the slums or a family in the slums who doesn't have enough money, if they do happen to get a little bit money, they will educate a boy and not a girl. But now their girl is connected to their medical services to clean water and things

like that. So they have this holistic approach to a girl's education. So I always thought that was really interesting. And I didn't know. So some of these girls from that school live in a safe house. So there was, there was a, they'd had have, they've had some sort of gender violence against them. So I just started hanging out with them every Saturday. And the first Saturday that all they asked of me is that I come back. And I was like, okay, can you give of me is that I come back. And I was like, okay, can you give me your word that you come back? I was like, sure.

So I came back and then I just started inquiring about what are these girls, like what do they really need? Because they had a lot of verbal boldness around the way they speak. So they are the next leaders of Kenya and girl power and all this stuff. But I really started to deconstruct in my mind or start to start the inquiry of like, what would it actually mean that they would be the next leaders of Kenya or that they would be they would choose whatever life that they would they want? Could this be cultivated now and how? So these were just questions. Meanwhile, I had to show up every Saturday.

I did. And when I did, I started to like one Saturday, I invited them over to my apartment and we were just going to cook dinner together they've never been in an apartment they've never been in a house none of that they live in shacks how old are these girls um they're 6 to 13 so invited them over going to cook lots of different vegetables and a lot of stuff. And so I started, I was cooking butterfly pasta and they said to me, what are we having? I was like, come here, we're having butterfly pasta. And their faces just dropped. They thought we were eating butterflies. And, and so I said, come here, look in the pot. Are these butterflies? And they said, somehow you

drain the color out of them. And then I started to get really curious. I said, can you name five facts about butterflies? And sure enough, they named things I didn't even know because they're smart. They have a really great education, but they've never seen a butterfly. And that really stuck with me because there's a forest 10 minutes from their slum that I used to go hiking in and there's thousands of butterflies. It's called Butterfly Lake. And so I called up my taxi driver that night and I said, what will it take to get these girls to the forest next Saturday? And he's like, hold on, let me see if I can rent a bus. He's like, okay, $50. I was like, done. Then I just started making it educational. So I had cameras. And so we did this whole like self-expression day, but I started to

really like take note of their experiences and how that changes them. So when they arrived in the forest, they were really, really scared. And I said, why are you scared? I said, we've never had this much silence. We're scared of the silence. We're scared of these weird noises. I started to do that for nine months, actually. And so we went to places all around Nairobi. We went to art studios of local artists. And I start to ask the girls fears come out. And they said, oh, they're voodoo and things like that. And I said, no, actually, they're not. I've worked with them. And they drink

goat's blood because of these reasons. And just like all these experiences were sort of being cataloged within me. And the thing that really frustrated me the most or the thing that I saw the most is that if you live in a slum, you are one certain tribe and that you pretty much don't have access to anywhere else, right? So your world is basically that. Your world is that. Right. Your world is that. And then taking these girls out on adventure, free spirit adventure days for those Saturdays, I started to hear how that manifests in their language and thoughts. And so that was pretty interesting. So in your mind, like what was happening? Well, in my mind, it was still that initial inquiry about like, what does girl and women leadership look like in the developing world where exposure to different ideas, different people, different ways of being is a luxury.

And even exposure to deep internal questions within yourself is a luxury when you're living in survival. Yeah, so that's kind of what was happening. It was still that initial question, and then layered upon how these experiences are affecting the girls. Teachers would come up to me and said, what are you doing with them? I saw girls in just those nine months on those Saturdays go from very shy to something blossoming in their spirit. So I didn't know what, I didn't know what that was, but I just showed up every Saturday and did what I could and created experiences. We worked with some women, some refugee women from Somalia and DRC. And so we did like an art project with them.

But through that art project, the girls were asking these women what their life story is about. And these are refugee women. And so I just saw like really deep moments of profoundness come out in these like little adventures that we did. It's like you're opening their world to the fact that there's something much bigger. I mean, part of what is so compelling about this also is to me is that I think when a lot of people think about how they can help or like, it's always like the grand gesture that leads and it's always a complexity. Well, like I can't, first I need to, I need to plan and then I need to set it up and then I need to gather resources and then I need to book this and that. I need to organize all this stuff. And you picked up the phone, you called your taxi driver, you said, how much to take the girls to the forest tomorrow? And that was it. And then it's like, well, let's go somewhere the time to do this right and set it up and get it funded and branded and this and that.

It's like, let's just take a single action. Right. You know, and see what happens. And then let's do it again. Right. And see what happens. Let's do it again. I think we sometimes layer complexity into the equation of like who we can help and how much we can help and when we can help. And sometimes I think it's almost, it gives us an excuse not to,

rather than like taking that simple thing, that simple step, the simple phone call, the simple whatever it is, to just help. Absolutely. So how does this then evolve into the organization? Right. So I came back to New York again, thinking I was going to get a real job. It's like the slinky effect just keeps coming back.

It's just like, I'm persistent on both sides of the spectrum. I will make this work in both ways. And one of the things that really was in the same way that the butterfly story was like sitting with me, this like pain in my heart was like, wow, I just left these girls. It's Christmas time. I know two of them were raped last year during Christmas time. So they live in a slum and it's really hard to get data, but they say up to 50% of gender violence against girls happens in the slum around Christmas break. There's a lot of drinking and there's an illegal brew that's pretty crazy. It just didn't sit right with me. And I thought, again, in the same way, what can I do just for this Christmas break? What can I do?

And how can I make it more expansive for them and more of an educational opportunity? Like, how can I make it a real opportunity for them? And I thought of all the things, like how Kenya changed me. And it was the people, the tribes, and the landscape. And they don't have access to any of that. Every tourist goes on safari in Kenya, and they've never seen a zebra, never seen was like, what if I go back and take these girls to work? First of all, take these girls on an adventure of a lifetime all through Kenya. And how do we do some sort of social action in the process? Because another thing that was really sticking with me was the whole dependency model. You can't talk about that. You have to just do it, right?

And at a very young age. So these girls, they do get their schooling paid for. And they are recipients of aid. So I wanted them to know that no matter how old you are, no matter what your economic status, that you always have something to offer another human being. And let's do that in different ethnic tribes, because one of the major challenges of Kenya is, and its leadership is ethnic conflicts, and it's been going on for a long time. And actually some of the kids' parents were killed in the 2007 ethnic conflict. So we went to a Maasai village and we worked with kids their age from an orphanage. We went to the coast.

They swam in the Indian Ocean for the first time. We went on safari. And all of these were opportunities to reflect, to put a mirror to them and what they want to learn in life and what they're curious about and how they want to develop as young leaders in their own community. And so then we went back into their community of Kibera and did service projects there. So, I mean, number one, you're taking them to parts of their own country that people travel the world to see that they've never seen and do things. What was it like for you? What was it like for them to experience the fact that they were living in what so many would consider dire circumstances? And then to turn around and be of service to others. It was incredible.

It was incredible. They were elated by the fact, really. So we did this whole service day on Christmas, and we built a study room for Maasai girls. And when we first arrived at the orphanage, these girls were so broken down. They couldn't look you in the face. Their shoulders were hunched. The Maasai girls. The Maasai girls. And through this sort of peer mentorship, friendship thing, model, they started to blossom. And I saw my girls blossom because they were blossoming. And when we had separate conversations, they were elated, like really, really excited.

Like seeing that they could have an effect. Yeah. And also with someone that now they call a friend, right? And so then we go and build this study room and we did this whole design thinking process, right? So they had to interview the girls and ask them, how do they want to feel when they come into the room? How do they feel now when they study? What do they think the value of their education is? How can I help in that. And what these girls came up with, these very young girls came up with a whole study room of empowering messages, banners saying, we love you. You can do it. Never give up. Your education is the key to, you know, to the life of your dreams. We love you. We're your sisters. So this was like all over the study room. And it was this really beautiful moment because we also did some art on the walls and things like that. And it was only girls at this point. And some of the boys from the village and the orphanage started to come in and say,

wait, I want in on this conversation. And they would be writing things on the wall for girls empowerment, which is mind blowing, really, truly mind blowing in that context. So yeah, so you know, I think one of the things that I experienced was this, the possibility of mindset shift in not only girls, but also the people that surround them, right? So that included in that moment, the boys, but also adults. So, yeah. So what's the mission you're on now? So the mission I'm on is continuing the deep impact with these girls in Kenya. And so they have already had a ripple effect. We're doing four impact projects within Kibera community. The things that they are coming up with is really mind-blowing, really, really mind-blowing. They want to be resources to other

girls. And so the mission that I'm on is continuing that deep impact for this year and connecting them with other girls. They're also really longing to be connected and in this like mentor model with girls from the U.S. So we're going to do – there's a couple camps that are interested in doing like a mentorship exchange. Like an actual physical geographical exchange? Not a physical one just yet. Right. Like digital? Yeah, digital.

Yeah, yeah, digital. I mean, there's a lot of problems with building out platforms in these regions. But yeah, that's where I'm headed and figuring out how technology can support this in the best way possible. But for now, it's still about really deep impact. And then we'll figure out scale. On this trip, we traveled to a region called Samburu. And so it was a two-day trek. And they're one of the oldest tribes in Kenya, similar to the Maasai tribe. But in December, it's the month where they practice FGM on the girls, female genital mutilation. And during that time, the girls get cut and they also get married. And so we arrive working with an organization that rescues these girls. And so a lot of these

girls had run away or been rescued days before we arrived. And so to see girls exchange their stories about running away from their families because they didn't want to be married to a 10-year-old, didn't want to be married to a 58-year-old man or a 70-year-old man, didn't want to be cut. She knew enough about the rights of her body. Then for that girl to really be in conversation and asking my girl, so what are your challenges in the slums? We've never seen a slum. What does the sun look like? What is that life like? And to see this exchange happen was really profound. So more of that for sure. And the trip that we were on, so 20 of my girls that I took on the trip and then 43 of the girls from Samburu, they're going to come to Kibera this year.

So they're going to come to the slum and see what that's like. And then I'm working with a couple different partner organizations. So it's expanding that way, but still it's about deep impact and there's the actual physical trips, but then there's a year, at least a year of leadership training, which is focused on building characteristic traits. So throughout this whole process, as you're now building this into something really significant, how's it changing you? Well, I don't think I'm running back to New York to find the stable job anymore. So I've surrendered to that. But yeah, it's changed me in ways that, I mean, this is the thing that I've always longed for, really.

I always felt like something was missing in my life that there wasn't a purpose i had purposeful things going on but the deep like this is what i'm meant to do in the world i feel like i'm on the track for that or this path is going is showing me deeper than any other thing i've done in my life so that that's that feels really good and actually feels like a nice place to come full circle. So the name of this is Good Life Project. So if I offer that term out to you, what does it mean to you? A good life to me is to wake up every single day and know that I'm making a difference in the world in the ordinary ways and the extraordinary ways. I think that's it. That's good. Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you. Hey, thanks so much for listening. We love sharing real unscripted conversations and ideas that matter. And if you enjoy that too, and if you enjoy what we're up to, I'd be so grateful if you would take just a few seconds and rate and review the podcast. It really helps us get the word out. You can actually do that now right from the podcast app on your phone. If you have an iPhone, you just click on the reviews tab and take a few seconds and jam over there.

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