Good Life Project - Cathy Heller | How To Be Intentional

Episode Date: December 20, 2021

How do you live a good life? That’s the question we’ve been asking here for nearly a decade. My guest today, Cathy Heller, has been along a similar journey, exploring the role of intentionality, purpose, and presence in a life well-lived. Raised in a household where mental illness and conflict were the norm, she took on the role of peacemaker at the age of 5, became a deep observer of human behavior, first, out of necessity, then out of curiosity, and eventually from the lens of calling. Cathy is a seeker in many ways. After studying mysticism and religion in college, followed by 3 years deepening her study of mysticism and self-actualization in Jerusalem, she headed back west, landing in LA, and looking to make her mark in the world of music. She eventually did, but in a way Cathy never saw coming. She became so successful, in fact, Cathy felt called to share what she’d learned, which launched her into the world of teaching, writing, distance learning, and launching her wildly popular Don’t Keep Your Day Job podcast, which has over 25 million downloads. Her book of the same name, Don’t Keep Your Day Job, offers a step-by-step approach to not just building a purpose-centered living, but also a deeply intentional life. Cathy is a sort of modern mystic meets kindness crusader meets creative visionary meets business savant. More simply, she’s a walking bundle of love and wisdom, and we talk about it all in today’s conversation. You can find Cathy at: Website | InstagramIf you LOVED this episode:You’ll also love the conversations we had with Morgan Harper Nichols about crafting a creative life and living around openness and honesty.My new book Sparked.Check out our offerings & partners: Outschool: Inspire kids to love learning with Outschool classes. It's 100% fun, live & teacher-led. Explore over 100,000 topics and learn in small groups via Zoom. Perfect for ages 3-18. Join for free. To learn more about all Outschool has to offer and to save $15 off your child’s first class go to Outschool.com/GOODLIFEBean Box: Give the coffee fanatic in your life an unforgettable coffee-tasting experience with Bean Box. Our coffee is expertly curated and always fresh, with fast delivery and free shipping. Order today at beanbox.com/GOODLIFE and get 15% off purchases of $40 or more.Theragun: A deep muscle massage treatment, unlike anything you've ever felt. Feel better, move better, and recover faster with tension and soreness relief. Try Theragun for 30-days starting at only $199. Go to Therabody.com/GOODLIFE right now and get your Gen 4 Theragun today.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Every person is just, it's unbelievable, isn't it? Like Mr. Rogers said, there's no one you couldn't love once you hear their story. And every time I meet someone, I just want to hold up a mirror and say, do you see? It's like the song, Do You Hear What I Hear? It's like, do you see what I see? Like, you're so amazing. It's not that amazing. It's not that unique.

It's like, no, I wish you could just put more of you in the world because the world would benefit from more of you. So how do you live a good life? That is the question that we have been asking here for nearly a decade. And my guest today, Kathy Heller, she's been along a similar journey, exploring the role of intentionality and purpose and presence in a life well-lived. Raised in a household where mental illness and conflict were more or less the norm, she took on the role of peacemaker at the earliest age, around five, and also became this deep observer of human behavior, first out of necessity, then out of curiosity, and eventually as life evolved from the lens of calling. Kathy is what I would call a seeker in many ways. After studying mysticism and religion in college, followed by three years deepening into her study of mysticism and

self-actualization in Jerusalem, she headed back west, landing in LA and looking to make her mark in the world of music. Now, she eventually did, but in a way that Kathy never saw coming. She became so successful, in fact, that she felt called to share what she had learned, which ended up then creating this cascade, launching her into the world of teaching and writing, distance learning, and launching her wildly popular Don't Keep Your Day Job podcast, which has over 25 million downloads. And I have been a longtime fan, both of her and her work. Her book of the same name, Don't Keep Your Day Job, offers a step-by-step approach to not just building a purpose-centered living,

but also a deeply intentional life. Kathy is a sort of modern mystic meets kindness crusader meets creative visionary meets business savant. More simply, she's a walking bundle of love and wisdom. And we talk about it all in today's conversation. So excited to share it with you. And a quick note before we dive in. So at the end of every episode, I don't know if you've ever heard this, but we actually recommend a similar episode. So if you love this episode, at the end, we're going to share another one that we're pretty sure you're going to love too. So be sure to listen for that. Okay, on to today's conversation.

I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. We'll be right back. whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday.

We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot?

Flight risk. There's so many places I want to explore with you. There's like literally the entire span of your life. But I'm actually kind of curious about the last year and a half. You and I had a conversation off mic, I believe, because I was sharing when last time we talked that we've kind of been on this like year and a half thing and 15 different Airbnbs. And you're like, wait, we've been running similar experiments. I'm curious about that journey for you guys. Because it's one thing for us also, because we're, you know, we've got a 20 year old kid who's sort of out of the house. You literally picked up and spent what,

a year and a half? Yep. Moving around the country. Yep. I want to know about the experience, but even before that, I want to know why. Yeah. I mean, I feel like lately I have noticed my addiction to struggle and striving. And I feel like part of what made me go out to LA at 24 was also a belief that there was a certain amount of expansiveness that happens in Los Angeles and New York City. And that short of being in those two places, your life will be limited. But anyone who's done the work that we've been exploring, whether you're meditating or you're in some other kind of portal that opens you up to the 5D, to connection, knows that it's not dependent upon any time or space, right? It's about a vibration.

It's about swimming in a certain resonance. And when the pandemic first sort of like rolled on through, I started asking myself, which I think a lot of people did, like, what do I really want? And how do I really want to live? And do I have to be in this vestibule of constant striving, which was we lived in Beverly Hills, right in LA, like in the thick of the Joneses, keeping up with them, I think was sort of the, you know, the mindset every time I woke up in the morning, there was no doubt that I had this thought, I need to make $10 million today. Like, I'm pretty sure that that was definitely a headline. And I started to really want to make restorative activity front and center of my life. And so I started to think about

what environments are more conducive to me dropping into center. And I thought about, wouldn't it be cool to explore small town life? Wouldn't it be cool to explore New England? And I thought, you know what, let's take this show on the road. And we'll pull my kids out of school. They're on Zoom anyway, which was awful. They weren't getting anything out of it at all. So I said, well, just homeschool them. And we did exactly what you said. We spent time in the Northeast. We lived on a farm in New Hampshire. We did Boston. We did Maine. And you would think of New Hampshire and Maine, they're the same. They're different, right? There's lighthouses. And anyway, it's so gorgeous. And then we did the Southeast. So we did Nashville and we did a whole

stint of time in the Smoky Mountains, which was unbelievable. We did Charleston. I thought we were going to move to Charleston. It's so amazing there. So those were the two big journeys, the Northeast and the Southeast, because I had been living on the West Coast for the last 17 years. I sort of knew that I had done up and down the West Coast a bunch. And gosh, we went to so many cities. We also, of course, spent some time in South Florida to see my family because I grew up in the sixth borough of Manhattan, which is Boca Raton, Florida. This is where all Jews go. At some point, it's a rite of passage. So we spent some time in South Florida. And I had friends who were moving from New York City to Miami. And I was like, Miami? I grew up there. I'm not going to go back there. But I learned a lot on the journey. And of course, I learned that, as Jon Kabat-Zinn

would say so well, wherever you go, there you are. So it really just shone a big flashlight on how I need to just find that space, right? And it is incredible how whether or not you're on a subway in Manhattan or you are standing, you know, walking in the middle of Tokyo, if you decided to focus your attention in the present moment, you could be pretty darn blown away by it. It doesn't really matter where you are. And at the same time, there is definitely an energy to places. And so we are in this really exciting moment. I think that what the work you've been doing for so long, Jonathan, I think now people are all in to explore that question, what makes a good life more than ever.

And they're taking risks and it's more acceptable. And so it's exciting. Have you guys figured out the answer to where you're going to wind up? Working on it. I mean, right now, Boulder, Colorado is home for us, which really surprises because like you, we were sort of like New York, LA and my wife and I were born both outside of New York and spent our entire adult lives in the city. And you get really arrogant about being a New Yorker. Sure, yeah, of course.

Really, really quickly. There's like a sense of ownership. And, you know, it's like you kind of know that there's something between the Hudson River and LA, but you're not entirely sure, which is like this bizarre way, like the strangest way of looking at everyone else. But there's this definite mindset. And then when you start to wander out of that, you're like, oh, actually the world exists outside of here and there's some beautiful places. But it's interesting because I was curious because on the one hand, I completely agree with you. I think

that Cabot Zinn quote floats in my head on a regular basis. Wherever you go, there you are. Same. Yeah. And on the other hand, I've been to places where like I step on the soil and there's something that just tells me, like my entire body down regulates, you know, and everything is kind of like, huh, like the place really affects me in powerful ways. So I'm sort of like trying to do that similar balance, which that I think you are also trying to figure out, like, how do I do the work to find center no matter where I am, but also opening to the fact that like, different places really can affect the way that you step into your life on any given moment.

Yeah, I remember when my husband and I were dating, and we were in downtown LA, and there was all these birds eating by a dumpster. And he said, they're dumb. Like they have wings. They could be in Santa Monica. And so, yeah, I mean, I think you can be more deliberate. We can be more intentional about the spaces that we dwell and also ultimately, right? It's, it is that balance of finding our way home, right? Breath by breath. Does that change the way that you're making decisions now? Have you come out of that and said, I'm going to make a different analysis moving forward? Yeah. I mean, what I did indeed come to terms with, which is sort of really helpful for everybody is that you don't actually, on the flip side, you don't need to

be in LA or New York to have an expansive experience. So while you can find center in a frenetic place, you can also find expansion in Duluth, Minnesota. So that is a big take home for me. And we came to South Florida for Thanksgiving. And the Saturday afterwards, we were supposed to go back to LA Monday morning. The Saturday afterwards, my dad went into the hospital. He was diagnosed with AML leukemia, which is, it's been both a very painful and meaningful and beautiful time, this sort of coming into this chapter, which will be an intense chapter for him. And we wound up staying here. So now I'm actually in South Florida, which was, you know, it was just the assignment of the moment to stay put. And sure enough, the beauty of it is that I know that the doorway to that expansiveness is it doesn't necessarily rest in being in one particular place, which is what's so exciting about what's happening now. And so many people are quitting their jobs and so many people are moving and guess what? Yep. You can, you know, make your own

guitars if you live outside of Pittsburgh and you can open a bakery if you're living in Missouri and all of the things are here for you. So that's, I feel like that's exciting. It's a little bit like the alchemist in that you go out on this whole journey looking for anything that makes you feel alive and centered. And you have all these tests and challenges and you're brought to your knees multiple times only to learn that it was always there inside of you. And then you come back home and it's like the home home was always with you the whole time you carried it with you mayday mayday we've been compromised the pilot's

a hitman i knew you were gonna be fun on january 24th tell me how to fly this thing mark walberg you know what's the difference between me and you you're You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. So, but you literally are like back home right now.

So home for you, and I know you've told the story in different ways. Early days of home for you were not the easiest days. Like these were days where there was a lot of family strife. And at a really young age, you found yourself effectively being the peacemaker in the family, which for anybody at any age is really, really tough. But, you know, five, six, seven years old, how can that not help but shape the way that you feel about yourself, the way that you feel about the world, and also the way that you feel about what is the expectation about how life is supposed to be, what it's supposed to give you

and not give you as an adult? Yeah, it's so true. And I had a conversation with Byron Katie about this a year or so ago, and she completely liberated me in one sense because she said, let's do the work with you right now and let's talk about your childhood. And I said, OK. And she said, so tell me what's the log line? You know, like, how would you describe? And I said, well, my parents had a really unpleasant, hectic, violent marriage. And both of my parents were going through a lot of their own pain and suffering. And I was, you know, I was there. And I feel like, you know, in many ways, they made me their therapist. And she said, oh, they made you. They made you. They put a gun to your head and forced you to be a therapist to them. And I said, well, no, no, that's true. That's not true.

They didn't. And she said, what if we saw it that you looked around in that situation and your soul said, hmm, I feel like the best way for me to thrive here, the best possible survival skill would be to help be a helper. And what if she said you were to see how astute you were in being so radically empathetic and such a good encourager and look what you're doing right now in your life. Isn't that what you do? And I said, it is indeed. And she said, yeah. So maybe you came into the world and maybe you knew where your gifts could be most

beneficial, which is, it's just so powerful. And yeah, as a child growing up with my parents and them being really sort of consumed, fully, fully consumed with their own stuff, I did, you just asked it in such a beautiful way, sort of how did that affect my well-being, but also sense of self and understanding of love and all of that. And love to me was only, it was only earned if I was sort of helping someone or saving someone. But love wasn't just given to you. And so as I grew, it was really shocking to me that love could be something that was just given. And in fact, that is love, right?

Like if someone loves you for a reason, then it's the reason that they love you, not you, right? Then it is conditional, right? So I've learned that over time, which is extremely painful and beautiful and healing. But it did show me as a kid, I think why I do the work I do is because my mom was suffering from really intense depression and she was really suicidal for most of my childhood. And I watched her and called the ambulance a few times and had those sort of nights. And my dad was already gone at that point. And I thought, hmm, so what,

why do people grow up to be adults if it's just such a bummer? It looks so unfulfilling, unsatisfying. And I knew she had all these dreams that she had not pursued. And I also knew that her marriage was so unfulfilling. And so I went on a search to see like, you know, what was the sort of answer to why we are here? And I, similar to your journey in some ways, I started studying religion and philosophy in college and became a world religion major and got into studying the Eastern Asian religions. And then I actually, only because I needed more credits to fulfill my major, started studying Judaism, which I was born into this, into being Jewish, but I didn't know much

about it. And then it took me on a trip to Israel and I thought I was going for the summer. And I stayed for three years and I learned mysticism in Israel for three years, only enough to know how much I don't know, like learned enough to know how much there is to know. And at the same time, learned that I thought that the opposite of depression turns out not to be happiness, but purpose. And I think what I learned was that we are each a masterpiece, a piece of the master, and that there's an ego, but there's something else besides the ego, right? There's a soul. And it's that thing that is, was, and always will be, that connects to what is, was, and always will be. And that was extremely healing. That was like control-alt-delete on my whole life. And from there,

I actually applied to rabbinical school. And after about a week in New York thinking about doing that, I thought, you know what, I really don't want to do that. What I really want to do is put those messages in the world, but just as myself. And so I came to LA and thought my dream was always music. And I thought maybe I could put those messages into music. And then that became a whole journey in and of itself. But yeah, there was definitely heartbreak, which led to really amazing questions. And then I think I went from being a seeker to being a little bit of a finder. And those are really beautiful things to find, you know? Yeah. I mean, when the pain leads you to sort of like ask questions rather than follow a similar

path that leads to your own version of that pain, that's, it can be a really powerful story, but that's not always the story. In fact, it's not often the story. But there was something about you that said, I've been shown a model of the world, but something about it doesn't feel right. I don't automatically assume that this is the model of what living as an adult would be. Let me go on a little bit of a quest. When you decide to go to Israel for ostensibly a couple of weeks. And you're like, oh, when that turned into three years. No, what happens? Because that is a big decision. What happens when you get there that makes you say, oh, I was coming for a bit, and now this is going to be home for a while? Yeah. I mean, like you said about six minutes ago, walking in certain places, the soil just

calls you home. I grew up completely secular. I didn't have a relationship with the word God or anything spiritual. And then here I was walking this land and I just kept feeling like tears coming so strongly. I was like on like a very sort of like, you know, fun college age kids doing sort of like we would do work in the land, right? So we were just sort of getting our hands dirty and building things. And it was beautiful, but it wasn't spiritual necessarily. And then I stumbled into a class with this man. And I only went to hear this rabbi because I heard that he was a Buddhist.

And I thought, well, that would be really interesting because I had been studying it for a few years. And so his name was Rabbi David Zeller. And not only was he a rabbi, but he had been a Buddhist for many years and he was a psychologist. So I thought, well, this will be really interesting. And he said something so powerful, which made me want to stay, which was that we know the meaning of a word from the very first time it's used in the biblical sense, in the Torah, right? In the Old Testament, as some people would say. And so he said what got him so connected to wanting to learn Jewish mysticism was that the very first time that the

word for the Sabbath, which in Hebrew is Shabbat, people have heard that like, you know, Shabbat Shalom. So the very first time that word is used is actually when Abraham is sitting at the foot of the tent in the heat of the day for hours and God appears and these three angels walk towards him. And he says, so we know that anytime it's used for the first time, all of that context tells you what the word means. So he says, so really what Shabbat is, is a 24 hour meditation. It's about sitting. And when you sit for all of us, for any person, wherever you're from, whatever language you use, ostensibly God appears to you, right? That oneness comes to you. And I was just like leveled. I'm like, that's so beautiful.

And I can't believe that's in this tradition. I have to know more about this. And so I stayed and learned Talmud and learned in the Aramaic and broke my teeth on it and took incredible classes and learned from real masters, real, like, I mean, I really saw the level of like kindness and goodness and yeah. And so it just, I just continued to postpone my trip and we would sit over one line and learn for three hours what each of these lines meant. Yeah, I think it's interesting that almost every faith-based tradition has sort of like the mainstream dogma, the mainstream practices. And then they have a mystical arm. Yeah.

And very often the mystical arm is like so out there. It's sort of like it just touches into like the mainstream stuff, you know, and it's referential to it. But it's like it's this whole nother universe of stuff. And it's interesting because I think my sense is that a lot of people resonate with the mystical arms of a lot of sort of mainstream traditions that may be like the mainstream element of it. Correct.

They don't really gravitate towards. I mean, you know, what's interesting is I do so much of this work wherever I can get my hands on it in any form. And so I spent a week with Joe Dispenza this past year. And he says, you know, I'll meet you when you arrive at that feeling, I'll meet you there. And that feeling is love, you know, we'll meet there. And you learn to, when you meditate, you learn to sort of memorize that feeling. And so even when you're having a day where things are hectic, you can kind of get back there, get back there, get back there. And we were walking on the beach, like a thousand people in Marco Island. And, um,

I felt just as connected to God walking in Marco Island as I did in Jerusalem, you know? And he would say to us, like, you are the mystical, right? The mystical lives through you and is part of you. And Gary Zukav was on my show and we became connected. And he told me this story, which a friend of his, who's became connected. And he told me this story, which a friend of his who's a Sioux Native American told him this story about how God basically is in every one of us. And the reason God's so hidden is because it's the last place we ever choose to look. But my point is that it's all the same song, right? Everything I just said from the Native American tradition that Gary was sharing with me to Joe Dispenza's work to Rabbi David Zeller's work and all of these,

we're singing a song that's, it's so easy to sing because it's love and it makes sense. And no matter how you slice it, it comes back to truth. And so, yeah, you're right. I think people would fall in love with those aspects. And it's interesting that those are not the aspects that most people know about. I wonder sometimes why truth is hidden like that. You know, so my sense of this, because I think you both, you and I both have wondered about this, is that when most people come to a tradition, it's either because it's just what the family has done. So they don't actively intentionally say yes to it. They just follow on a decision that was made probably three generations ago for them. But if they come to it

later in life, or if they return to it, I think they very often come to it because they've reached a crisis point in their life where they're suffering. And they're not looking for transcendence at that moment. They're looking for stability. So it tends to be like the rudimentary fundamentals of a tradition, of any tradition that gives you the basic answers of what do I do when I get up in the morning? How do I behave in the world? And it's the mystical arms that allow you to sort of like go from there and start to explore transcendence, start to explore what does it mean to feel love? Yeah. And most of us never get there.

Yeah. And that's really true. And what's a derivative of that, which I talk about a lot in my podcast and in the work I'm doing is that each person, regardless of gender, has masculine and feminine energy. And I feel like the question that everybody is asking, which you just asked a version of, is what do I need to do? It's the masculine part of all of us. What do I need to do? And the feminine part of all of us is What do I need to do? And the feminine part of all of us is who do I need to be? And it's fascinating that that's the part that really gets overlooked. And I feel like there's a great awakening over the last 40 years where there's a yoga studio on every corner and

people are learning to ask that question, who do I need to be? But when people ask me about how to build a business or how to heal some part of their life relationship or otherwise, it's going to come from the answers to the question, you know, how do I need to be and who do I need to be and how do I show up? And it's almost very similar to the masculine, feminine anatomy and gender where it's like biologically, right? The masculine, right, is giving this thing and it's very important, right? It's crucial. The feminine is receiving it and then sitting with it and sitting with it and taking this potential and and just spinning it into this whole world right each person is like a world and yet right that that piece which is crucial right that

masculine piece but that's like that's like a second right but it's a really important second like without that second you have nothing you don't have it but really it's like it's probably 90 10. it's probably that 90% of what does the heavy lifting is the resonance, the who am I, who am I and how am I? And then there's this 10% of like, and then what do you do with that? But you're right. I feel like most people go to like, oh, so you're part of that tradition. So you do this and you don't do this. And then you do this and then you do that. Right. And then you judge people who don't do that or do do this when really it's mostly about what is the tradition saying about who I'm supposed to, how I'm supposed to be. And the work you do is so beautiful because people

come here and they get to breathe that in. And you, I know this isn't about you, but I just feel like saying it. I feel like just who you are and the way you resonate, because we all tune our instruments to each other. When people tune into you, literally, to listen, they also tune in. And your courageousness in going and sitting and being a lot and learning how to be with yourself and be still, they get some of that. And that's probably why this show is like medicine for people. And the ability to bring on people like you and share and expand horizons. It's interesting. I was even thinking about, as you were just sharing that, I was like, it's being in my mind, different

traditions. And you mentioned that there's a yoga studio in every corner these days but even in the yogic tradition you know most people never actually get to the mystical element of it um there's like the the basic teaching if there's the yamas and then the yamas like the constraints like the 10 commandments effectively of yoga. These are like the basic rules of how you live in the world. And then we do that. And then we do the physical movement part of it. And we like suffer, you know, as much of meditation as we can endure because we're told that it's important. And then we kind of like tap out, but it is, I'm so curious. I'm curious what you think of this. I'm so curious about what this the last two years

is doing to people i mean obviously there's been a lot of devastation and heartbreak and suffering and challenge and struggle and at the same time i'm really curious whether part of what's going to happen is an opening to questions that go beyond this sort of like baseline how do i just feel okay every day, which is important and matter, and really start to ask the bigger existential questions. Are you seeing that? A hundred percent. I mean, it's so incredible. I just shot this TV pilot because I got all of these people reaching out to me saying, you know, there's this thing where people are quitting their jobs.

And even when they're being offered more money, they're still leaving. And employers asked a lot of people the question of why that is. And they said they're in search of something much more in alignment with themselves. So 100%, I mean, we've never seen that. The amount of people who quit their jobs. And again, it's not about the money. It wasn't enough to say, come back. They're not coming. So yeah, there's definitely an opening. I think that we're all very good at glorifying being busy because again, sitting still means I might actually be uncomfortable because I have to

feel something that I don't want to feel. I think what happened this year is we learned that we have the capacity to feel hard things. And it doesn't make them not hard. But we have the capacity to hold hard things. And I think what happened is there was so much grief. People lost a lot. There was a lot of loss, whether or not you lost a person in your family or not, which we did. My husband lost his mom. But even if you didn't,

we lost what we thought was the dream. We lost sort of routine and certain things that we were addicted to for good or for bad, like certain ways that we coped. There was a lot of grieving of things. And we survived. We learned that we can feel. And then what happens is other feelings then came through. And we sat with those feelings. And like Janine Roth says, it's not the feeling. It's the story about the feeling that's so scary. And when you're in this much of the throes of something, you realize, wow, okay, so now I really want to actually live my life. So I think that there's an incredible opening for people. And I hope so. I hope that

people will deliberately choose their life. I just had Bronnie Ware on the podcast. And I thought it was one of the most powerful conversations I've ever had in my entire life. And I mean, we've all known about or read the book, The Five Regrets of the Dying, but it's so life-giving to really contemplate that you might not have this forever. And then what would you do? Because we get so distracted from the person we came here to be. We get so preoccupied and then we say, wait a minute. So I love to encourage and sort of help people clarify, what really do I, what do I really want? And could I really have it? And the answer is pretty scary, which is yes, you really can have it. You really can have it. You really can have it.

Yeah. That notion is very terrifying to a lot of people and people are asking those questions. You mentioned earlier, at some point you start to realize that the opposite of depression isn't happiness, it's purpose. It's interesting because I remember a couple of years back in the olden days when we actually had a studio in New York, sitting in the studio with Chip Connolly, who's built all of these incredible boutique hotel chain and now done every festival on the planet and now runs the Elders Academy. And I remember him writing in one one of his books he said i realized the opposite of depression was curiosity um which i think has a really powerful tie-in to purpose

because it's sort of like it's it's seeking a reason to be to a certain extent which is in my way almost like a like a different way of saying exploring purpose. Yeah, I see that. I really think what's fascinating about us as human beings is that we want so much to feel seen. And when I talk to people, and now it's been thousands and hundreds of thousands and millions of people, people feel the most seen when they impact someone else, which is just amazing. It's just incredible. I don't know that koala bears feel that way. I don't know that crocodiles or giraffes feel that way. I think we're the only species in the world that yearns to impact someone else. And that makes us feel so seen because inherently it's kind of like we know

on a soul level that we were assigned when we came in this world. And there's a little bit of a mission to do. And it is like I say to my daughter who's eight, when we're doing a puzzle, sometimes we get to the end and there's a piece missing at the top or the corner. And it's so frustrating, even if it's just one piece. It just doesn't feel complete. And I do feel like each person kind of knows that if they don't show up and add that color to this tapestry, it just doesn't get added. And if it was really okay with us to not show up in the way we came here to show up, it

would leave us alone. But it doesn't. No matter how much Netflix you watch or how many podcasts you listen, you can't ignore it. It just keeps coming up. And I do find what's so beautiful about people is when we have something, we want to share it. That's what we want to do. You get the best ice cream and you say to your wife, oh my God, you have to try it. You have to try it. Or you go to a special boutique hotel and we came back from the Smoky Mountains and I couldn't stop talking about Blackberry Mountain. I kept saying to people, you heard about Blackberry Mountain, you have to go. It's

unbelievable. It's unbelievable. It's like, as soon as you have something, you want to give it away. And I think what hurts us, what really, I think why the soul, why we're in pain is because we have so much to, we want to give away. I remember when I was breastfeeding, I have three daughters. It was like more than they needed to breastfeed. I had to breastfeed because my boobs would be killing me. Like if I didn't, I'd be like, come on, I need to breastfeed. Right. So otherwise I would just pump, which is a lot less fun. But I think that we are so yearning, so yearning to share it. And then I think these two horrible lies come up for us that stop us, which is, who are you to share this? It's not that special, whatever it is. And nobody wants this. Nobody wants this from you. And I think I've come to

learn through talking to so many people now that it's the most egocentric thing you could say, because it's your ego that says that like, oh, who wants this? And I'm not good enough because your soul is just excited to be generous and curious about other people and is more curious about other people than you and your stuff and whether you're good enough or not. So when I say that to people, they kind of wake up and they go, oh, that is an ego thing. And I don't want that to run my life. I want to be more in a state where I'm not allowing my ego to decide. And so then you can get really busy.

You can get really busy today being generous and coming up with ways that you could touch the life of a neighbor or somebody. And then when you're so free once you do that, and then the amount of opportunities that come to you, and then you get this incredible fulfillment that I think you have and I have that doing the work I'm doing. It's, oh my God, it's just, I can't stop. And people say, oh, do you ever feel like you should slow down? And I say, no, because it's not about me. So it feels so good. It feels so good.

It's not something I would want to stop. Yeah. I often, I completely agree with the generosity side. I think, I wonder whether sometimes the place we get tripped up is not with the notion of being generous feels amazing and I want to do as much of it as humanly possible, but being generous in a way that is authentically expressing a deeper thing that is unique about me, because then what we fold into it is the opportunity for judgment. Somebody saying, I don't just see the act, but I see the way that you're doing it. And I don't accept the sort of like your unique way of doing it. And they judge you. And whether that's true or not, there's something in all of us

that says, okay, I'm terrified of that. Like I'm terrified of being seen for who I actually am. And then not being accepted for that. So if that's tethered to an act of generosity, not only am I not going to show up as me, I'm also not going to offer that act because I see them as being intertwined, which I mean, it's sort of like it compounds the hurt. You're 100% right. And when I started doing this podcast five years ago, I thought we were there to encourage people and to show people what was possible. And 25 million downloads later, talking to millions of people, it's a rejection phenomenon. It really, really is. It all boils down to the fear

of the rejection. Someone won't like it. It won't be good enough. This person won't believe that I posted that or shared that or made that. And what's so powerful is to share with people my perspective on this, which I think is a lot, it's not unique to me, but it's a beautiful, I think, position, which is it's not a problem that people reject you. It's only a problem that you think it is. Because I posted this the other day on Instagram. There's like 8 billion people in the world, and I have about six friends, right? There's like six people who can really hold space, who I show up for. And when we're together, there's like something that's extremely vulnerable that happens. And there are people who, they don't like Indian food. They don't like, some people don't like sushi. Some people don't like Jerry Seinfeld. And you look at them and

you're like, how is that even possible? Like I walked down the aisle to the Curb Your Enthusiasm theme song. I'm obsessed with Larry David. People look at me and go, it makes me so uncomfortable. I'm like, that can't be. Like it can't be that anyone doesn't like him. People can't stand him. So that's not a problem, right? There are people who don't listen to the same. I love musicals. My husband, he listens to reggae. He thinks musicals are exhausting. He's like, why would you want to cry over? It's so maudlin. It's so sentimental. It's ridiculous. It's like a joke. And I love Ben Platt and saw Dear Evan Hansen four times on Broadway. It's insane. I flew to New York to see this show four times. So it's not a problem. And I think what people also don't recognize is

that we're all living in a hologram of our projection. So when somebody sees you, because you put something in the world, they have a whole bunch of momentum around the story that they're living, right? The experiences, the narrative, what they woke up with that day. And then they look at you and you become evidence of whatever it is that they think or believe. So some people will say, oh, you know, girls with freckles, they tend to be like, I don't know, gossipy. you know, girls with freckles, they tend to be like, I don't know, gossipy. Maybe somebody knew girls with freckles.

And then they look at me and then they go, see, you see how that was really that? I don't know. Other people think girls with freckles are so approachable or remind them of their best friend from camp. I love everyone freckles. You see how she's the sweetest person? So it's like everyone's in their own river, right? And it's like, instead of allowing them to just dance in their river, we're so hung up on it. I mean,

how could it be if you were Byron Katie, right? To bring her back, she would say, what would be the gift in being rejected? Like, what would be the gift in that? Oh my God, could that liberate you from the bandwidth you're spending on trying to get everyone's vote? Because no one's going to get everyone's vote. I mean, has there ever been a politician, JFK, Hillary Clinton, has there ever been a person where I was like, they got all the votes, like the whole world stood up and got it? No, no. So I think we can let go of it and then realize, especially today, you know, you're going to find your own small group of humans. And, you know, Seth Godin is a mutual friend of ours and he's become such a mentor to me. And he continues to say like how much better it is, like so much better for you to have a small group of people who are obsessed with you than it is to try to be Taylor Swift.

Like it's not that interesting, right? Like to try to be Vanilla Ice Cream, which is like number one, right? The people who like Rum Raisin are obsessed with it, you know? And Seth's example of that is Taylor Swift and the Grateful Dead. He goes, you meet people who like Taylor Swift, they'll say, I've seen her in concert. And you say, wow, that's cool. You meet people who like the Grateful Dead and he says, they say to you, I've seen 49 shows. This year. A year. Exactly. That's right. And you're like, oh, I see. Right. Okay. So you can try to be that or you can,

and the Grateful Dead, they never had a hit on the radio. It wasn't, why are we trying to win this race that we don't even need to run? You know? And I mean, look at me, like no, I can go anywhere. I'm not famous. I've had like eight people recognize me in five years. I just, I just do my thing, put my head down, do my thing. And yet there's this whole world that's been created. And I'm literally just a mom, just a person. And yet we remain so afraid of that one person who doesn't say, it's not like they're saying, I don't see you for who you are. They're saying, what we're terrified of is somebody saying, I do see you for who you are and I reject you.

And the universe of other people that say like, no, I'm cool with that actually. And I love it. And I want more of it. We are so wired to not acknowledge those people and to only acknowledge the people and then to be terrified. It's interesting because when I think about the decisions we make in our lives, right? So many of them are made not because in the name of expression and impact and love and generosity and all these things, they're made in the name of avoiding the downside, avoiding risk, avoiding rejection, avoiding being seen in a particular way. And it's sort of like,

if you think about, if you add to either of those sentences, by whom, you know, like, and you sort of like count the number of the people, and then you ask how much do they matter in the context of my life on either side, it's like, it's, the decision gets really clear, really fast. And yet still we're so guided by so much fear of not being accepted by, by lack of belonging. And I wonder, especially over the last two years, you know,

so much of that is rooted in a fear of isolation and not belonging. And when you compound that with the isolation, like there's literally we're living in a soup of isolation and disconnectedness, like how much worse does that get? And yet, like we were talking about in the beginning of the conversation, I feel like we've gotten, there is so much pain. Like it's become the fabric that we wear so often, so much of the day that I think a lot of people now have gotten past the point where they're caring and they're just kind of like,

let me look at everything new. Yeah. I think that's all really true. And it reminds me of so many things. You're like the most fun person to have a conversation with because they're like so delicious. But recently, I've been thinking about how, and this isn't a new thought, but it's something that's new, I think, in terms of something we don't think about enough, which is that... We've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are.

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you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. This idea of belonging, right, which you're saying, it is so innate. And, you know, my friend Mark Grove says, like, all day long, we're choosing between authenticity and belonging. And belonging will win nine times out of the ten. So then you don't really belong. Who do you belong to?

You don't even belong to yourself because you're not choosing authenticity. But, oh, if you said that, your stepmom won't like it. So you just choose to belong. Who do you belong to? Or you don't even belong to yourself because you're not choosing authenticity. But oh, if you said that, your stepmom won't like it. So you just choose to belong. And if you said that other thing and you told someone who you voted for what you really eat or, oh my God, you're not a vegan, you won't belong. So you just keep choosing the belonging over authenticity. But what I also think is important is that it's the ego that sucks us into the illusion of separation because that's where all the pain is. All the pain is I want to belong, and there's all the separateness, and I want to be with, right, with these people. And so I need to earn that. But there is only with. It's a joke. It's a fallacy. It's made up. It's a construction. We know that. We know it, but we forget it because the world keeps pointing us to the separation, right? Well,

let me show you how you're separate from him. He's this height. You're this height. You live in this city. He lives in this city. It's all a story, right? Because ultimately, if you zipped off your body, right? And I'm a pool of consciousness, you're a pool of consciousness. Well, guess what? They flow right into each other, right? In the vibrational sense. And people really forget it. And they have to be reminded, oh yeah, an atom is 99% wave and less than 1% particle. Most of this universe is vibration. And vibration, it's all belonging, right? It's all harmony. It's all swimming and connectedness.

It's all this oneness, right? And it goes back to the central prayer in our tradition, which is the Shema. Shema Yisrael, God is one, oneness, right? It is, was, will be. It's only one. And that's ultimately, Einstein said it, right? It is, was, will be, it's only one. And that's ultimately, you know, Einstein said it, right? Why we don't really come back to knowing that. And that is a gift we can give ourselves every single day. That's what five minutes of meditation can do for you every morning. You

come back, you separate from this. It's fiction, right? It's this little fictional character that you made up, this ego, you know, she likes this music, she eats this food. What is that, right? It's this little fictional character that you made up, this ego, you know, she likes this music, she eats this food. What is that, right? And then you come back to the part of you that's observing all of that, which is the oneness that's in everything and everyone. And so of course you belong. There's nothing but belonging, right? And so that's, I think, I would take the risk to say that I think maybe the reason you and I or anybody who's willing to say something or do something or stand for something, maybe there is a practice or something that lets us know on some level that there is that, that there's that connectedness in everything and everyone. Because I don't see anything but that. Even though I have a part of me that's made up, that's fragile, that can sometimes get stuck, the refractory period is very quick. And then I go, oh, so that's just a shadow of, because nothing can hurt me unless I'm signing off on it. And we know that. So it's always an

opportunity, right, to keep coming back to like this swirl of how we're all interacting all day long to hopefully elevate all of us, right? If part of this ocean wave moves, it lifts the ocean, all of it gets connected and moved in some way. So I think that we have to remember that because our brain runs a program. There's a software. And it's an artifact. The only fake news I always say that exists is between your ears. It's the worst. It's the most fake news that exists.

And we can take control of that. And that brings us back to, you know, a big part of how you and I both really got into the meat of our own journeys is through meditation. And it's the most productive thing I do is sitting still every day because it clears, oh gosh, it makes all of this so much easier to just move through because I don't have to believe and buy into all of this stuff. So I wish that it would be like required, like for every person, right, to have that. It would be powerful. You know, I think a lot of the benefit of that practice, no matter how you step into

it, and a lot of different ways to step into it, some sort of mind-stealing practice, unless you actually recognize what you were just describing, that your brain has an operating system that's running a script that fabricates an avatar that we present to the world. But the avatar is naturally you. It's a representation that you think is most likely to be said yes to. And then when it's not said yes to, which happens, you think it's the actual you that's not being said yes to. Yeah.

Not realizing that as you just described, that's actually not reality. But the pain that goes along with it is very real. And meditation for me has always been just doesn't fix anything. It just helps me see a little bit more clearly. Like that's it. You know, so maybe I can make more intentional, clearer decisions. Maybe I can step out of just like a hint of delusion and be a little bit more sort of like in the truth of whatever is in front of me, whether it's a hard truth or an easy truth. But yeah, it is a really powerful practice.

And at the end of the day, you know, it's interesting as the whole notion of belonging is that it's the avatar that we present to see whether it's going to be accepted. You know, and it's the avatar that we present to see whether it's going to be accepted. And it's the avatar that belongs. And if the avatar isn't actually us, we never belong. It's not that we don't ever belong. I'm going to riff on sort of like building what you were saying.

We never get to a place to accept the fact that we always have belonged because we see this sort of artifice being rejected and it distracts us accept the fact that we always have belonged because we see this sort of artifice being rejected and it distracts us from the fact that we, like the deeper we underneath it, never was. Like we've always been there together. But that's kind of deep mystical stuff that most people aren't going to step into, including me. Look, we're having this conversation, which I love and I'm going to walk away from it. And I'm going to be like, huh, that was really cool and esoteric and kind of mystical.

And then I'm going to get in my car and I'm going to go wear my meat suit around the neighborhood and interact with all the different people and do all this stuff. And I think one of the dances that so many people have is even if you get a glimpse of these practices and these moments of awakening, we live in the real world, you know, where we bump up against a lot of hard things on a really regular basis. And like, how do we bridge the gap between them? Well, part of it is also, I studied for a few years at the Mindful Awareness Research Center at UCLA. And, you know, what people don't know enough about is ourselves, right? We know a lot more about our car and our iPhone than we do. But what you just said is really true.

And I think what would help people is the awareness that it's not just the mind, it's the body. Because when the thoughts think the thoughts, right, then you have a feeling. And then those feelings secrete a chemical in the brain. And those chemicals, let's just talk about cortisol for a second. It is so addictive. And then the cell actually builds receptors to it. And so it's more addictive than nicotine. And people love science and data. It's like, this is all in the data. This is all scientific, right? I mean, I studied studied at UCLA. John Kabat-Zinn's been studying this even longer, right? At UMass. It's everywhere. And what's important is people think, oh, it's in

the mind. It's like, no, it's at this point, it's in your body. And what I, and so when you, like Gay Hendricks was on the show a few times, We talked about the big leap, right? Your body is going to fight you now. Now it's not just your mind. So even if you listen to this John, you listen to Jonathan, you listen to whoever you listen to, you start to get really excited. You start to cross that river into something new and your body goes, I am in need of stress hormones. I need the shame.

I need the doubt. I need the guilt. I built receptors for it in my cells. Your body is going to start to unseat you. I don't think most people know that, that we've given that. We've been on an IV drip to this cortisol for so long. And so it starts to feel uncomfortable. Without it, we're in withdrawal. And so we have to really fill ourselves then with oxytocin, with dopamine, with things that feel better, which you can get. That's the power of beautiful thoughts that can then feel different feelings, which can

give you different sort of chemical reactions in the body, which totally affects your nervous system. And that's really the work that at some point we all have to do that work, right? Because if you just keep taking the old program and then letting it run the body in the way it does, first of all, it creates all diseases, right? I'm sure your friends are Dan Buettner. He just came on to talk about his new book. And for anyone who doesn't know about the blue zones, and I said to him, okay, so what's the big reveal? What's the thing that makes us last the longest? He's like, well, you got to reduce the inflammation in the brain, right? We got in the body, which is caused by cortisol.

So all of the people who've lived in their hundreds have some kind of meditation practice. Oh my gosh, really? Really? Oh my gosh, no way, right? And then I said to him, so what are we, sadists? Like you've published how many New York Times bestselling books? You've said it loud and clear. We don't do it. And these aren't people living into their hundreds

and they can say they've had a hundredth birthday. These are people living well into their hundreds, having a quality of life. So if in fact, we either get to decide that this is true or it's not, but it's true. So how can we then say, I'll only feel good if something happens in the day that makes me feel good. And if not, you know, it's a crapshoot. Depends who I run into. It depends what happens. It's like, no, no, no.

It's guaranteed then to have all of the same highs and lows that you had yesterday, probably four o'clock every day. You'll get that withdrawal. You'll feel stress hormones again. Your body will find some reason to give you that again and again and again and again and again and again over and over and over and over and over again. We're living Groundhog Day until we stop and say, okay, wait a minute. I get to be in control. And then instead of you seeing people with this diagnosis and this diagnosis, it's like you could change that if you stopped giving yourself, right? Like this constant drip, this constant drip of cortisol,

which is coming from the stressful thoughts and the stressful feelings. And so I don't know that everyone's fully aware of that, but it's so heavy. It's so, so heavy. And it takes us out of a flow state, takes us out of creativity. Gosh, the mind gets so busy and then the body gets so heavy and it takes us out of a flow state, takes us out of creativity. Gosh, the mind gets so busy and then the body gets so heavy. But it doesn't have, I guess I'm saying it so emphatically because it doesn't have to be this way. We don't have to accept that, that that's the way it has to be, but it will continue to be that way. And that's why i'm saying part of it's esoteric and part of it's like just as real as like anything in in the both the three-dimensional or the five it's it's it's literally your body and the way our body reacts to to certain chemicals

no totally agree with that and it's interesting interesting too, because the original model for positive psychology that was developed in the early days, in the early 2000s, was they shorthanded it PERMA, the P-E-R-M-A. And it was positive emotions, meaning, relationships, and accomplishment. And then chunky years later, people start saying, we left something out of this. And they added a V. So now it's generally accepted that the shorthand is perma V. And the V is for vitality. And that's about your physical body. So your physical body can actually be used as a lever to effectively reverse engineer into you psychological, spiritual, emotional state, and the other way as well. And that we can't move through life either from only the neck up.

We also can't move through life only from the neck down. That we have these things and that goes back to yoga. It goes back to all these different practices where the thing that people practice in yoga in the US predominantly is asana, right? Which is the physical practice, which in the original intent of that in the thousands of year old tradition was to prepare the body to be able to sit for the outer limbs of the practice. That is what gave us access to the deeper exploration of self and spirituality and expression and all this increasing awareness. And ultimately, if you buy into it, samadhi or bliss, which has a word in every single tradition. But yeah, I agree with everything is so interconnected. So on the one hand,

you can have these esoteric conversations, but at the end of the day, nearly every tradition has figured out, they've distilled down these really fundamental physical practices that have the side effect of when you do it on a regular basis over a window of time, things just start to change whether you intended that or not. Yeah, because words don't teach. It's experience that does. It's like feeling it. And I was having acupuncture a few weeks ago, and I've had it so many times, but I was sitting there and it just dawned on me like, oh, right. These little tiny metal needles. Metal is a conductor of energy. And literally,

like, it's this physical way to move the energy back into some alignment in your body. And it gets stuck, you know, it gets stuck. And that's when you go, oh, my shoulder, or you're thinking certain thoughts, and they always wind up in your gut, maybe your stomach hurts when you think certain thoughts. But there is definitely that connection between the physical and the spiritual or that mental place. And yeah, I mean, I think it would just be such a gift if we understood that we don't have to leave it to chance, that we could have some kind of a morning for ourselves that would just set us up to be present for this gift, which is this day. So as we sit here having this conversation, you have spent three years in Israel, come back, gone to LA,

tried to make it as a musician, kind of bumpy, didn't make it. And then figured out there was this different way to enter the world, built the fantastic career in the commercial side of music. Then went out and became a teacher. Then you build this incredible community and wrote a book, Don't Keep Your Day Job, and this podcast with affecting millions of people around the world. And now we're having this conversation. And at the very beginning of our conversation, you said, I was going to be a rabbi, but I realized that that wasn't my path. And I'm just sitting here and I'm reflecting on the entirety of our conversation. And I'm like, are you sure? Because you sound like you are. Thank you. It's interesting. Only recently, my agent at Gersh, Amanda, she represents Joel Osteen. And she said the same thing to me. She represents all these actors also. But she said to me, you know I represent Joel, right? And I said, oh, no, I didn't know that and she's like um you really are doing that in your work and um it's such a gift and and what i love about the work that you and i get to do is that

it doesn't it doesn't require anyone to walk through any door to get here you know like it's it's not on the other side of of self-identifying as one tradition or another it's like we can all just keep having these conversations which really to me me, it's for all of us, no matter where we come from. But thank you so much for saying that. And yeah, I really believe that we've each been assigned. And every person is just, it's unbelievable, isn't it? Like Mr. Rogers said, there's no one you couldn't love once you hear their story. And every time I meet someone, I just want to hold up a mirror and say, do you see? It's like the song, Do You Hear What I Hear? It's like, do you see what I see?

Like, you're so amazing. It's not that amazing. It's not that amazing. It's not that unique. It's like, no, I wish you could just put more of you in the world because the world would benefit from more of you. And so I love that that's kind of the journey that I get to be on is hopefully like enrolling people into showing up more as themselves. And I believe we need it now more than ever because it's unbelievable how everyone's sitting there arguing about what's going on in the world in some way, I think, goes such a long way than thinking someone in Washington is going to say something that's

going to help you in some way. I think we can do such a good job. I think we can do it. Feels like a good place for us to come full circle as well. So hanging out in this container of a good life project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? My life makes me want to cry. I love that question.

I love that your life is that question. It's so beautiful. I think living a good life is loving another person into life. I think, as we said on this, in this conversation, like our energy, be responsible for the energy you bring in the world and know that that energy, your life force, your love, your passion, your compassion, your enthusiasm, and can love someone else more into life. And what a gift to do that.

Thank you. Thank you for this. Hey, before you leave, if you love this episode, say that you will also love the conversation we had with Morgan Harper Nichols about crafting a creative life and living around openness and honesty. You'll find a link to Morgan's episode in the show notes. And of course, if you haven't

already done so, go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app. And if you appreciate the work that we've been doing here on Good Life Project, go check out my new book, Sparked. It'll reveal some incredibly eye-opening things about maybe one of your favorite subjects, you, and then show you how to tap these insights to reimagine and reinvent work as a source of meaning, purpose, and joy. You'll find a link in the show notes, or you can also find it at your favorite bookseller now. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. a good life project. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals.

No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun.

On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him! We need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight risk.

The Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X.

Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.