Good Life Project - Choosing Love Over Work: Erika Napoletano

Episode Date: February 8, 2016

Imagine you're an actor. You work your entire life to generate a magic moment. A call, offering you the role that could open the door to your dreams. But, there is a cost.The gig will require you to cancel the trip of a lifetime with the one person in the world who leaves you breathless. And, on a deeper level, it represents a choice you've vowed not to make, picking craft over love.What would you do?That's the choice this week's guest, Erika Napoletano grappled with just days before we sat down to record this week's conversation. And, in many ways, it's a choice she and many of us have been forced to answer many times over the course of our lives.This is actually the second time Erika has been on the show. We first sat down a few years back in Boulder, Colorado, where she was deep into her writing career. Since that time, her world has changed in profound ways. Now in Chicago, with a deep focus on speaking and acting, I was curious about this evolution, so I when I heard she'd be passing through New York, I invited her to take me deeper into her transformation.And, as is her style, Erika got very real, very fast. We explore Erika’s climb from the darkest of depths of suffering and loss to rediscovery joy, returning to her long-held passion for acting, becoming an award-winning author, acclaimed speaker, TedX Editor’s Pick 2012, columnist for both American Express OPEN Forum and Entrepreneur Magazine.We also talk about what it means to live a messy, truthful life, the power of establishing sacred commitments, and why the biggest risk you’ll ever take is simply not taking one. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot if we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight risk. What lights me up is sitting on a plane next to this man that I love so incredibly and looking over and knowing he's there and he's doing this with me.

That's what makes passing on all that stuff worthwhile I can't get that back if I pass on that I'm not going to feel like this on the set of something that I took because I should Today's guest, Erica Napolitano is someone we had a lot of fun with. She, I believe, may be the first guest that we've brought back. We sat down a bunch of years back when we were just starting Good Life Project as a video project and filmed a conversation in Boulder, Colorado, which was awesome.

And we had a really good time. And she's wise, funny, snarky. She does not filter or hold back, just letting you know that in advance. And that's a really good thing. We talk about her extraordinary journey through really kind of learning, stumbling upon the things that lit her up early in life and traversing a lot of different careers and paths and moving away from it until a series of incidents kind of slowly started to bring her back. And then we really dive into what matters and some of the very profound choices that she's making now. And in fact, a huge no that she just said to what she would have perceived as the

opportunity of a lifetime in the name of honoring the sacred in her life. So really excited to share that journey and her story with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. It's good to be hanging out with you. Yeah, I'm delighted to see you. We were just talking about before we started recording that we were hanging out with you. Yeah, I'm delighted to see you. We were just talking about before we started recording that we were hanging out last time, so you're one of, I'm trying to think if we've had anybody else

on two times, but you're almost definitely the first guest who's returned who we filmed originally on video and now is coming back for the podcast. I have a voice for radio. I have a voice for radio. I have a face for radio.

We figured that out in the first episode, so I'm kidding. No, not at all. Actually, what's funny is for anybody who's out there who has seen, there was a video mashup that we actually had in the front page of our website for a couple of years that we're reworking the whole website now, so it's not there, but it'll be up again soon, but it's on YouTube. And it was created by somebody who was a longtime viewer back when we were doing video. And he was also a broadcast film editor. And he just wanted to do something nice, like as a gift for us, because he loved

what we were creating. So he took like the answer to the last question, which is like, how do you, what do you, what does living good life mean to you? And he created this montage video of like 30 people, you know, like answering it. Um, and like gave me the final edited video as a gift. He's like, I just thought this was really cool. Like it's a really nice sort of like representation of your work and you were the final one. I know I was, I was so surprised. People in my community sent it to me. They're like, hey, have you seen this? And I was like, I think you sent it to me first space and you just like, there was this knowing smile because you were like, if I can make just a difference in like one person's life and you kind of lean back and you looked up,

like you were, like there was somebody that was actually you were thinking about and this like smile spread across your whole body. And you like, when you're watching that on film, you just like your whole body smiles too and you feel it. And I showed that to a couple of other people and they were just like, your whole body smiles too and you feel it. And I showed that to a couple of other people and they were just like, like something just,

it triggered some emotion in them. I was like, yeah, that is the closing. That's the closing clip for this. It was really powerful.

Thank you. And it's been great being here. I'll leave now. They can only do this self-predeemed. Man, that's a wrap. We're good.

It was the shortest episode you've ever recorded. Shorty but a goody. So we're hanging out now. And we actually filmed originally when we were filming. We were hanging out in Boulder, Colorado where you were also. That's where you were. Yeah. And we're now in New York City where you don't live now.

I'm here. But there's been like a sea change in your career and your trajectory and where you live and all this stuff. So I thought it'd be fun to, while you're here, to catch up and kind of find out what's been going on. Yeah. Gosh, what do you want to know? Everything. So first for those who have not listened or seen the video or don't have a feeling for who you are, just tell me a little bit about, how do I ask this question?

Because I don't want a thumbnail. I don't want to ask like the normal. Tell me about yourself. Where do you hail from? Where do I hail from? Opelika, Alabama. No. Opelika, Alabama.

Did I not know that for real? I don't know. I don't. I like saying it. Opelika, Alabama. It does have a sort of like a sing-songy thing to it. I usually get that for real? I don't know. I don't. I like saying it. Opelika, Alabama. It does have a sort of like a sing-songy thing to it. I usually get Opel-what? Opelika.

Especially if you say it in New York City. Yeah. They'll be like also Al-a-what? Yeah. That's far. Is that in Manhattan? All right. I think it must be Lower East Side.

Yeah, I guess. It's in the Bronx. It's in the Bronx, right? Which is funny because I'm pretty much New York City born and bred. All right. I think it must be Lower East Side. Yeah, it's in the Bronx. Which is funny because I'm pretty much New York City born and bred. I grew up just outside of the city and I've been in the city for God knows how long. So I have such an almost like ignorance about like what South or what like up here we might even call the Deep South really is all about. What's it like growing up in, what is it? Opelika, Alabama. Opelika, Alabama.

I was born there. My parents were in the Air Force, or my dad still was. This is back when they discharged women for being pregnant because it's an illness. So my brother was born in Dayton, Ohio, and that's when my mother was discharged. And then we were stationed down in, you know, just, there's a military base, there's an Air Force base somewhere around Opelika, Alabama. And so that's where I was born. And then my family moved around a lot, and I ended up growing up in Houston, Texas. So I was there for 16 years, went to elementary, middle, high school, college, most of college there. I did a semester

at Bard College in upstate New York. Oh, no kidding. And realized I was too, I had to come home. What was that about? It was, I don't know. I didn't fit there. 900 students. In the whole college? Yeah. And it was very small. It seemed very entitled. Very. I just didn't fit.

I mean, yeah. I had to go. It was like a way. It's like the second most expensive college in the United States behind Bennington. Bard is? Yeah. Wow. And I thought it was what I wanted, and it wasn't.

So what did you want? Do you remember that? I went back to University of Houston and came back. I went to Bard, a creative writing major, and I turned into a theater major because I couldn't get any creative writing classes because they registered transfer students last. And there weren't any classes left in my major. And so my roommate had work study, and she was a seamstress, and she'd transferred from Tisch School of the Arts here at NYU. And she said, hey, do you know how to sew, right? I was like, yeah, I grew up sewing. And she's like, the costume shop is looking for people to do work study.

And I was one of the poor kids there, so I had to do work study. And I was like, great. So I walked into the costume shop and I never left. I turned into a theater major because I just fell in love with the people there and finished out school at the University of Houston. And, yeah. So from writing to theater major, which is interesting, what made you feel like you wanted to go to school for writing? Because that's usually like a pretty defined thing for people.

Well, I started off as a political science major on a pre-law track because I was going to go to American University in Washington, D.C. and then go to Georgetown for law school and specialize in international law. So you had it all tracked down. Oh, yeah. I had it all figured out. This is my life.

This is. I mean, at 14, I was like, this is good. This is where I'm going. And I started on the pre-law track in my freshman year at U of H. And I realized that it wasn't what I wanted. What I really wanted to do was write. It was something I'd always done. It was something that I enjoyed that fed me.

And so I flipped to Bard College. And it turned out to me that theater, ultimately becoming a theater major, it's the same thing as being an attorney. It's just a different stage. And for a shitload less money, let's be honest, by and large. But it was still that it was much of the same. And so I went from poli-sci, going to be an attorney to I'm going to be a writer. I'm doing air quotes right now And then I was a theater major not knowing what the hell I was going to do with that which is interesting too because um A lot of lawyers these days, especially litigators go and take like, you know Well, i'm gonna i'm gonna take my cles as you know, i'm gonna take a performance class or an acting class Because it's considered, you know, that's the thing that's going to help elevate your game. Yeah.

When you're actually presenting in front of a room. So it's a little bit of, yeah, there's some interesting overlap there. What did you come out and do? A lot of things. I graduated college and I went to, I was married at the time to my first husband, moved to Knoxville, Tennessee, and did some volunteer work in community theater with a lot of temp work. And then I took a job at the Virginia Opera as the head of stage operations. And I worked in the summer for Virginia Scenic building scenery. And that paid about $9 an hour back in 1997.

Which is not actually horrible in 1997. No, no. It was decent living wages. Yeah, it's more than minimum wage now, I think, a lot, right? Yeah. It's like $8.15 or something. And I was, this quintessential story, I was at a bar one night in Virginia Beach where I lived. And the guy was talking to us about what he does.

And he worked for a telecom company pulling cable through AT&T central offices for 20 bucks an hour. And I was like, ka-ching, these dollar signs go off in my head. And I'm like, I can totally do that. So I got hired by this telecom company and I started pulling cable through AT&T central offices. This is when DSL was up and coming. So I was installing fiber optics bays and crawling and stitching cable through all of these telecom central offices. Then I became a site engineer with that company and site manager. And then I met my second husband and moved to Japan, became a personal trainer. I got fat doing that whole – I did.

I was 170 pounds. I got incredibly – I'm 5'3 for people listening. Truly, I was a bit of a muffin. And I hired a personal trainer to start taking care of myself again after living on the road for so long. Fell in love with that. Became a personal trainer. And I moved to Japan because my husband was stationed over there. I was there for a year.

I ran my own personal training business. Did that when I came back to the States when we were in San Diego. And San Diego was where I returned performing. I took my then husband to, for our first, was our second or third anniversary together. I was like, ooh, San Diego, this show Stomp was coming through town. You're in New York, you're familiar with it. And I was like, I'm going to take him to a Broadway show and dinner for our anniversary. And 20 minutes into Stomp, I have tears rolling down, these silent tears rolling down my face because I was watching the show and I was like, oh, shit. That's what I'm supposed to be doing. gotten him a gift but i'd really gotten myself a gift we we were you know separated four months

later i have an amazing track record but uh yeah inside of a month of that i started acting classes inside of three months i had an agent inside of six months i was their top booking talent and in san diego and it was this is good after that, this is getting to be a long story. You know, like what have you done with that? I moved to Los Angeles in 2002 because it was time to get out of a small market and get into a quote unquote real market. And I spent three years being told you're too much. You're not enough.

You're too tall. You're not tall enough. You're too much. You're not enough. You're too tall. You're not tall enough. You're too old. You're not old enough. Your hair is red. It's not red enough. You have too many freckles. There's not enough freckles.

And so it's like when you stare at your Google map on your phone and you're looking for the blue dot. It's like when you're in downtown Manhattan. It doesn't quite know where to land. It keeps bouncing around. You can't get your bearings. And so I upended the dinner table, flipped everything over and I said, screw this, I'm done. I don't know who I am. I don't know who I want. I don't know what I want. All I know is that I need to earn money and I'm just tired. Yeah. And so many people hit that point also where, but I mean, it's like heartbreaking when,

when you hear something like that and you're like, okay, so you went through a whole bunch of inventions and reinventions and reinventions. And then there's this moment that sparks you and brings you back to that thing where you're like, this is, this is my work. And then you start to do that work and everything starts to line up. That classic line, profit rises up and supports you. And then when you try and continue along that path, you move to the bigger market. All of a sudden, everything crashes and burns.

And it makes you really question. I thought this was my work. I thought this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Yet for three years, everyone's telling me like, what happened to the universe supporting me when I aligned who I am with what I do? Yeah, this is supposed to be this, this was the right choice, right? This is what I was supposed to do. Or, or I stopped doing what I was supposed to do. And now i'm doing what i what i must be doing and you know can a sister get a can i can i get a hand up you know can i get a lift and you know

i've had that happen twice in my life i had that happen when i was in san diego and and then i moved to los angeles and i upended the dinner table. I manufactured this whole corporate life for myself and out of that came everything that I'd done from 2005 until 2013. Total of nine years going, I'm very good at this and it makes me money and i have a name doing this you know i'm a brand consultant i'm a marketing consultant and i tell stories the way people have never heard heard their story told before and people hire me and pay me amazing money to do that and after i did tedx boulder in 2012 and i was on a stage, and there's 2,000, there's 2,200 people giving me a standing ovation for going out there and being my dork self, unedited. I was like, oh, shit. This is what I'm supposed to be doing.

This is what I miss. I told myself for years, I don't miss that. I don't want for years i don't miss that i don't want that i don't need that what what that being what the energy from an audience the part of its validation of someone identify it's what i've always enjoyed about public speaking it's the the validation of seeing someone that audience going that nodding their head and feeling like you're talking exclusively to them in a room full of 1,500 other people. And them being riveted by you just standing up there and telling the truth of the world as you see it. And there's, from the moment that I did TEDx Boulder, I was like, like, I've got to stop doing what I'm good at. I have to do what I can't not do, and that's perform.

And I have to find a way to do that. I don't know what it means. I don't know what it looks like. And that's the scary thing. When you realize you have to do something and you don't know what it means, you don't know what it looks like. And that's the scary thing. When you realize you have to do something and you don't know what it means, you don't know what it looks like, you don't know how you're going to get it done, but you just have to do it. And that's a pretty humbling moment for me as a human being because I've been a person for 40-some odd years. I really like to have answers. I am very comfortable in black and white.

And I think the past three years of my life, especially the past five, have gotten me to be more comfortable in the gray area. I really love gray. Because if you get comfortable in a gray area, it means that you don't panic. And you operate from, you know, an oh shit mode all the time. Like, I've got to do something Like I've got to do something. I've got to do something. I've got to do something. You go, I can breathe here. I can rest here in the gray. And what looks good, what feels right, as opposed to I should be doing something while I'll just do anything. When you're comfortable in the gray, getting comfortable in the gray has made me comfortable seeing choices as a luxury. Deconstruct that a little bit. Things aren't always happening around you. You don't have that hum. And I'm in that gray area.

I can sit down. I can breathe. And I can look and go, I have so many choices I could make. I could do this. I could do that. I could do that. And I've been at points in my life, and I'm sure you have too, where you don't have the luxury of a plethora of choices. You have binary A or B.

And it's survival. It's financial. It's life. It's family. It's survival. And when I'm in the gray area, I get to look around, and I get to be comfortable there, and I get to breathe, and I go, look at all of these choices. Wow. How much of that do you think is a function of choosing to put on the lens of saying that this space is okay versus you being alive on the planet long enough to know that if you do hang out in that space long enough good stuff will emerge and that you're capable and you're competent whereas like you just had to be

knocked down and come back enough times to like have that voice inside that says yeah i'm gonna be all right it's for me it's a combination of the two yeah it's i've been around long enough and i've had enough shit happen to me that i go i'm not dead yet i mean four years ago i almost by my own will checked out and just hit the fuck it button what happened um it was after jason had died um and has there's like a 20 month period period there. I was just in. And just for who was Jason? Jason was my boyfriend. Okay.

And he passed away suddenly from surgical complications, age 29, Halloween of 2010. And I was still working through that when I did TEDx Boulder. And it was this 20-month spiral of just not wanting to feel anything, of what can I do to numb myself because the outside world is too much stimulus. And with just a plethora of shit happening in my life, I'm like, I'm not dead. I'm not. I've made an active choice to continue to be here, and I'm very glad that I did. And there's, I don't know,

there's a humility that comes from realizing that there's a choice. I actively made a choice to stay. And when I'm in that gray area and, you know, things aren't happening, and I do know, it's not that you can't wallow there. You can't be woe is me there. You have to be actively participating in the gray area. You have to ask it questions. You're like, how does this look? How questions you're like how does this look how does this look what does this look like who do i need to talk to what do i need to explore and then opportunities do come and then you step out of the gray area and you're back in that black or white and you know i think my i think my life looks a lot like

a zebra where somebody's took taking a picture of a zebra running past me, where it's just blurred, where it's a combination of stripes and all sorts of gray tones. But if you do hang out there long enough, I have full confidence that the universe brings things my way because I've been brave enough to ask the next question. Yeah. But I think that is the defining trait that triggers the universe to bring things your way. I've had this conversation with so many different people who, and there's nobody that I know that has emerged to rise up, find their thing, do really great work who hasn't been in that place in pretty deep and profound ways, sometimes for months, sometimes for years. And the difference maker that I've seen over now, you know, like spending years talking with so many people and in my own life too, having been in that same space so many times, having started and failed and started and succeeded and questioning

everything it's what you said and i want to focus on it because i think that's what people don't focus on is there's a difference between um wallowing in that space and there's a difference between um proactively choosing to be there and viewing it as, you know, like you have a responsibility. You don't have to have all the answers right now. But what you do have to do is consistently ask questions and run experiments in the name of gathering enough data that will give you some sense of what direction to move in to go out of that space. And I think a lot of people get confused and they just view this as like a bad and awful thing and you just have to wait it out.

Just wait it out and this stuff is going to happen. I'm not a patient person. And that doesn't, it doesn't happen. It just, you know, that's where, you know, I'm a huge fan of people taking time off to, but, but not to just kind of like hang out and watch TV and binge on Netflix and Amazon. Although there's some great shows on Netflix and Amazon. We could totally do an entire episode on what I'm watching on Amazon and Hulu and Netflix right now. Oh, my God.

So good. Oh, my God. It's so violent. It's not my normal thing. No, but there's a genuine, it's that historical, fictionalized history there. Tangent. But yeah, I mean, so it's, and I call that window the thrash. But your job when you're in the thrash is to treat it as like a place of unknowing, you know, where you get to run a series of experiments.

And your job is to actually not just hang out and wait until it ends. Your job is to actually be the scientist. And I think that's the differentiator that allows people to emerge empowered rather than completely destroyed or just never emerge. And I don't have a whole lot intelligent to add that you haven't just intelligently, just eloquently explained. But that's the difference between wallowing and being actively unknowing. I mean, you can not know and not care, or you can not know and care. I mean, I think the hub in the center, I'm like drawing a circle with my finger. But it's the thing in the middle is you have to care.

If, you know, having been on the far left side of the spectrum, if not caring is there and caring is on the right, you know, checking out and hitting the fuck it button on life is far left on the spectrum and not caring anymore. When you actively participate in the fact that you're in the gray zone, the thrash, as you call it, then for me, that's a very powerful place because like having, and you said you wanted to talk about this, but the, the shift that I've made to focusing my brand and that's why I'm in New York right now.

I just did the photo shoot for my new website. But it's focusing my brand on, you know, I'm a creator. I'm a performer. I'm a writer. And this is what I do instead of, you know, making that shift. I love the gray area because it lets me ask, okay, you don't have any auditions right now. You know, Spielberg's not calling. So what are you going to spend your time doing? Actually, he texted me when you're here. Yeah, he just wants you to show when we're done. All right. Thanks, Steve.

I don't know a lot about any other lines of work other than being a consultant and being a performer. But there are, I think any entrepreneur or someone who runs their own ship can identify with, you know, ebbs and flows in your cash flow or workload. And so when it's ebb, you have a choice to turn that into a flow. You can ask, what do I have time to do now? Because for me right now, I have an ebb before my next project starts at the end of March. And I go, I have time, the energy and the inspiration

to write my solo show. And I wouldn't, and for the past year, I have been blessedly, no, I've busted my ass and I've earned every opportunity and met some amazing people and built some powerful relationships that I value highly that's kept me working consistently for the past year in the arts. And now that I have this little break, I've been like, oh, solo show, I should do that. It's been just out of reach this whole year. And now I'm like have work coming in and questions to answer so I can

focus on creating. And that's a gift of the gray area. Because I've asked, what do I want to do right now? If I could do anything I wanted, which I can, what do I want to do right now? And I answered the question. And I think what happens with a lot of people is like when they're in that gray area, they'll ask the question, but when they answer it, they get to the point where I'm a fidgeter. There's like noise in the background. I'm like flipping on the chair. Right.

I'm remembering actually like as you're, what you can see is Erica's kind of like wiggling all over the chair. I'm totally a fidgeter. As you're doing this, I'm remembering when actually, what you can see is Eric is kind of like wiggling all over the chair. Yeah, I'm totally a fidgeter. As you're doing this, I'm remembering when we were filming. And I was sitting in 15 different positions. And you're just constantly moving around the chair. We're like moving the mic around, Chasey. And he's like, yeah, you're boom guy.

It's like, you're crisscross applesauce, you're leaning back. It's all good, man. It's all good. I'm just totally, it's my, you know, I'm a little OCD, a little ADD. It's like good, man. They come up with reasons why they can't do that. What I really want to do is write my book. I can't do that because I don't know how. I can't do that because that's their first inkling is to sabotage themselves. And I've been in that position where it's like, okay, the reason good shit isn't happening in your life is because you have not given good shit space to come into your life and that right there you know when you're in that gray zone wallowing is not allowing anything good to come in it's even if something looks good somebody's like hey do you want to go do this well i would but

and like it's such an inward energy that like anybody around you, you're taking their energy whenever you wallow. And people don't want to be around you. And people don't want to support you. No. It's, yeah, I mean, it's, there's, I think that's the big myth is, you know, like being in that place effectively, utilizing that place is not a passive pursuit. It's like fiercely active. But you also brought up, you know, like the idea of space, of deliberately creating space. Yeah.

To just kind of like allow some things to rise up and come to you. And I think that's so important. I think we have, I mean, our schedules in our lives have become so brittle with things to do. Google Calendar is the, I think my life runs by it if it's not on my calendar. Mine does too. But I schedule laundry. I do. I have blocks.

Right. So if you look at my calendar, it's like everything all day is blocked out. But what you'll see is like there may be a block of like three hours every day where it's just like go walking in the park. Yeah. So it's like because if I don't actually like you have to schedule unscheduled time. Yeah. Or else you won't do it. Totally.

And that's the time where the magic happens. We've become a culture that throws around the word busy like it's something we should get a gold star for. Oh, man, I've just been so busy. Well, what have you been doing? And you can't name anything you've done. You can't name anything you've accomplished during that time or created or you've just been busy. And it's, to me, it's not something to be proud of. I, you know, I might have a lot of stuff on my calendar, but I have time for Philip. I have time for my friends. I have time to answer emails. I have time to call my family. I have time to write. I have, I have time for the things that are important, that are

important. And if I ever get to the end of the day and i go holy shit i'm exhausted what did i do today i don't i don't like those days and i make i make a conscious note to you know i'm getting better with meditating um because my brain goes so fast and it helps to slow down. But when I have days where I get to the end and I go, oh, what did I get done today? Nothing. I was just busy.

I meditate and I give myself, like, it's my spiritual shovel. I get everything out of the way and I make space for myself again because if I don't have space, I can't go back to the gray area and ask, okay, what now? And honestly, what now might be a Netflix show. But it's making space for myself. I think we allow a lot of people and things to take our space away from us. And we're not very good about asking for it back or demanding it back. Yeah. In a lot of cases.

Or reserving it in the first place and not even allow it to be taken. I think that's the, because most of us will never ask for it back. Yeah. You know, so it's like, okay, let me actually make this as sacred as whatever the most sacred thing in my life is. And then build everything else around that. Because I find, and look, I'm as guilty as the next person of not doing this. I know that it's important to me. I know that when my schedule is in a place where I can't breathe, that I can't create,

I can't function. I'm not a good partner. I'm not a good parent. I know that it flows through all those things, but I'm also a human and I have like big things I want to do in the world and I forget and I overschedule. And we're the ones who made that. Right. And I always pay the price and I'm always, you know, I think I'm getting a lot better these days at really proactively. We're literally building out my schedule months in advance now

to make sure that the big rocks that are really sacred to me are the first things in there and that everything gets built around it. But you have to make such a fierce commitment to that, to make it happen and not step away from it. We had somebody I had on the show last year in 2015, a guy named Sean West, really fascinating guy. He's a hand letter. Actually, I'm sorry, Sean West is his brand, Sean McCabe. So he started out just obsessed with hand lettering, then created this tutorial because everyone wanted to know. It exploded online. He built this big business teaching people how to do it. He has a course, he's got a show and a podcast,

and he's a really sweet, nice, intelligent, amazing guy. And he saw Stefan Sagmeister's famous talk where he basically talked about his seven-year sabbatical, where every seven years he takes a year off. And Sean's like, I'm going to do, well, okay, I can kind of do it. And the second one came, things are so busy here, like work is, you know, crazy. And what I don't, I really can't do this. Maybe I'll just make it three days or something. And he like made a choice. He's like, no, no, no, no. Like, this is important. This is sacred. This has to happen. Because if I blow it off once, I'll never do it again. You know, and he may and he lives. So this is his life is he works. And then like every seven weeks, he takes a week and doesn't work. And he goes with his wife. And they just go and do really cool stuff. And that recharge that gives him so much fierce energy and fuel and ideas to come back and be so much more effective and productive. And what he what he knows is that because he's made the commitment

that there is no excuse, that week will happen. He makes sure that in the seven weeks that it intervened, whatever has to happen to allow him to take that week off will happen. Whereas if he knew that it was a possibility that he couldn't do it, then he wouldn't do that. Things would bleed over. Right.

So it's like, if you make that sacred commitment, for him, it's the week every seven weeks. It may be time with a kid or time with a partner. It may be time to make art, whatever. Time to walk in the park or take everybody. It's like we're so bad about elevating those things to a level of sacredness and building everything else around them. We feel like we're just fit them in. It will never happen. And so I'm struggling to make this happen in my life right now.

But so I love to like sort of hear you really kind of like reach into this and like figure that out. Oh, I just had a, what in my life is a great example of that happening because here's this trip to um philip my boyfriend and i we leave for uh paris and munich on monday uh it's a 18-day trip we're getting a little got a little airbnb studio in paris you know on the 15th or on the small and and it's just we're he's a traveler by nature and he's you know backpack and go he spends three months in india a month in china and he just doesn't know where he's going to stay and it just all works out for him and he's done this his entire life and so this is our first big trip

together and i had you know being an actor you know i have an age agents, and I had to email my book out to my agents and say, hey, from essentially January 1 to January 28, I'm unavailable. I will be in New York, and then I'll be in Europe for vacation, and thank you for understanding, and please take me off availability. And three minutes after I sent that email, my voiceover agent emails back, cool, thank you so much for letting us know my on camera agent, my phone rings. And I'm like, and I was on the phone with a client. I'm like, oh, crap, I just don't want to get bitched out for booking out for the whole month. I can't deal with that right now. And she starts texting me, you need to call me right now. And I'm like, oh, God, I'm in so much trouble. And you know what, it's hard enough to get an agent.

And you're grateful when you have an agent. And then your agent, you know, you don't want to take them off. And so when I wrap up my client call, I just do a little email triage, like, I don't know, I'm sure a lot of people do when they come off of a 45-minute call. And there's an audition notice from the biggest casting director in Chicago for a guest star role on Chicago PD for me, specifically asked for me. And one, it's huge. That's a – because five people go in for that. I have at least a 20% chance of booking that To I look I'm like, oh wow Amazing she's not gonna yell at me. Yay. This is why she was calling and then to I look at the shoot dates

January 5th through January 16th And I call her and she goes, Erica. And I'm like, hey, Michelle. And she's like, are you sure? I know you just sent your book out notice, but we pitched you hard for this and they want to have you in.

She's like, you're going to knock this out of the water. And I'm like, there's part of me going, oh God, oh, God. Because the opportunities don't like that don't come along very often. And so I, you know, I was talking with him about it. And my other agent, she goes, if they want to work with you, they'll work around your schedule. And I was like, here's the thing. I value my relationship with this casting director.

Call, find out what their flexibility is. New York is flexible. Europe isn't. And they call back in 10 minutes. They're like, nope, they would need you for eight days. Which, understand, that's roughly $9,000. An actor faced with $9,000 worth of work. That doesn't,

on a nationally syndicated, you know, NBC show. And, with a meaty role. And, I go, I have to pass.

Because, yeah, I can't. Your face just changed, by the way, when you said that. What did it do? It's like remorse.

It is. But the next day, my agent called me when I'm on the bus on the way home from a class. And she's like, Eric, are you sure you don't want to go? I mean, this would be the same day. One, it's my birthday. And two, it's my 43rd. I mean, this is this would be the same day. One, it's my birthday. And two,

it's my 43rd birthday to this is a guest star audition where I have like, 10 pages of sides to learn and go in and I needed to have been working on this yesterday. And I'm like, I can't, I can't this this trip is I said, it's sacred. I was like, I planned this trip with my boyfriend, we're going to Europe. And she goes, Okay, I understand. I just wanted to double check. The next day, I get an audition from Second City, someplace I've been trying to get into for two years since moving to Chicago. And I get to the audition and nail the audition. On the way out, they hand me the availability sheet and I scrawl down, no conflicts. And then I get home and I was like, I got a callback for it. But that night, Philip and I had gone to Steppenwolf to see a show. And like in the middle of the show, the callback notice comes. And I do a quick Google looking for the listing online that I'd submitted for.

And the show dates, rehearsals start January 18th. I'm in Paris. And I'm like, fuck. So NBC opportunity passed. Second City, I go to the audition the next day and go, hi, can I talk to you before we get started? Because it's an ensemble audition. I said, I didn't think I had any conflicts. And I need to apologize because I don't want to had any conflicts. And I need to apologize because I don't want to waste your time. I'm going to be in France when rehearsals start on the 18th. And I am happy. I'm here. I'm happy to play. I'm happy to support the other group of people going in for auditions. And I don't want to screw that up for anybody. But I need to let you know now

that I'm unfortunately not available for this show. And the woman goes, oh, my God. Okay. Well, thank you for helping us out. And let's go in there and let's have some fun. I'm like, I emailed one of my mentors, Audrey Francis. She's one of the founders of Black Box Acting in Chicago. And I say, so this is what my past 48 hours has been like. And this is what she wrote back.

She's like, isn't it true? Every time I book a fucking vacation, Spielberg calls. She's like, it's going to be like this for the rest of your career. But good on you. Go to France. Go to France. She's like, in my career, I passed on. She's like, I canceled trips to family.

I canceled trips to see my mom. I canceled vacations. And I wish I hadn't done that. She's like, good on you. Go to France. Have a hell of a time. They'll be here when you get back. And if they want to work with you, they'll have you back.

Because you were honest. You didn't burn any bridges. You handled it the right way. And you know what's important to you. And it was hard. It was hard to go. I mean, my agent goes, when she called me back and I'm on that bus on my birthday, the day of the audition, she's like, Erica, this is NBC money. It's like $900, 800 and something, $900 a day. And for a gig, that's great. And knowing that you're going to get eight days of work out of it on set with great actors and on a fun series that people watch week after week and in prime time, I'm going to France.

And I'll be back. It's weird. And when we were at Steppenwolf that night, something that just meant the world to me is I turned to Philip and I showed him the audition. I showed him the callback notice and I was like, we're in France when these rehearsals start. And he goes,

it's Second City. We could rearrange our dates. I was like, dude, you would... Were you looking for, like at that point, were you looking for permission or were you looking for, like, at that point, were you looking for permission? No, I was...

Or were you looking for, like, validation to stay strong? I was... I was just, I just wanted, I just wanted acknowledgement that, you know, the decision that I was making was... Aligned. It was a tough decision. And him, he's been so supportive ever since we've met. It's been going on nine months now. And for him to look at me and go, it's not set in stone we planned is the most important thing to me.

That is what I want most, more than anything, because we made the space for this in our lives and we're going to do this together. And I'm jazzed. It's so exciting. I'm like, I'm going to Paris. I've never been to Paris. I speak a little French. I get to use it. I get to eat baguettes and cheese, a lot of cheese. It's going to be exciting. And that, I mean, I can't. What lights me up is sitting on a plane next to this man that I love so incredibly and looking over knowing he's

there and he's doing this with me. That's what makes passing on all that stuff worthwhile. I can't get that back. If I pass on that, I'm not going to feel like this on the set of something that I took because I should. No, I'm going to Paris. Tears in my eyes. Man, he's just a fucking amazing human being. I don't know how he puts up with me, but stuff like that is worth it. Yeah, yeah.

I don't know. These kind of decisions are going to be with me for the rest of my career. And do you do this or do you do this? Yeah. And it's not just the vacation. It's the line in the sand you just drew. Yeah. It's I need my life.

Right. It's like you just, okay, you were just given, um, the first big test of a choice that you will very likely have to make over and over and over and over. And it's like,

let me really wrestle with this and not say, well, I'll do it this time and then deal with the choice next time. It's like, no, let me, let me really feel into this and do it from a deeper place and know that this is the decision. Like this is the call that I'm making when things like this happen, which will happen again.

Yeah. It's with, you know, redoing the website. I've wanted to do it for the past year and I haven't had the why behind it. Why does this need to change? I always need a why because that powers my creative, it powers the content. I hate that word, but it powers the message that, because I think when somebody lands on my website, I need to let them know quickly whether they should stay or go. Is this what you need and what you're looking for, or these are not the droids? Kick it. Pound sand. Go find something that fulfills you elsewhere. And so I had a decision, like, when I was building the navigation for the new website, because work with me is the second thing in my navigation right now.

And it's going to be the seventh thing. And it's only going to have one page. And now I have consulting. I have Buy Me Coffee. I have the GSD Mastermind. And over this past year, I've had so many opportunities for building relationships where I would do more and more corporate consulting. There's a glorious price tag attached to that. It's money that would allow me to do a lot of other things. But it's also if I'm putting my creative energy into telling other people's stories, that I don't have the creative energy to tell

the stories that I need to tell, and that I'm, I'm compelled to tell. And so there's only one way to work with me on my new website. It's buried. It's, it's a top line navigation item, but it's, you know, a buy me coffee session. It's an hour and 15 a top line navigation item, but it's a buy me coffee session. It's an hour and 15 minutes of my time. And I do love those. I love helping somebody just hash through something in a very focused way. So they leave with a new level of clarity. And so they leave with a fire in their belly like, yeah, now I can go do that. God, thank you, Erica. And I love empowering them that way. But the big decision I had to make was, do I keep doing what pays and pays really well?

Or do I make the space for me to create the things that will pay me very well if I keep creating them? That's a hard – But requires substantially more faith. Yeah. And maybe time. Yeah, it's – That's a call. It's such a tough call for so many people to make.

It's the word faith. It's funny. I've had that word – I've collided with that word a lot in the past 30 days. And it's, if you've asked me before, it's not, world and you ask the right questions, good things and the things that you need and things you didn't even know you needed will find their way to you. And so I've had this weird 30-day journey of redefining what faith means and detaching the attachment that I had to it having a religious implication, which is fine for some people. It's not the right definition for me. But knowing that if I invest my time and energy into things that fuel me spiritually, emotionally, creatively, the monetarily will come. And it's not the case with everything. It's like, that's why I hate people, you know, follow your passion, it'll be

okay, you know what, I appreciate the fact that you want to wave plastic baskets, limited market. It's your passion doesn't always pay. But there is a certain level of selfish that comes with making a decision that I've come to embrace. It's what good does this do me? Also, but what good does it do the people I want to serve? And if I'm not a little bit selfish in building my brand, focusing my brand, figuring out what it is I want to do, giving myself the space to create and continue to create things that change people's lives in that one little way, then I'm dishonoring my audience. So I have to be a little bit selfish and holding that time back for myself so I can do those things. I don't even know what most of those things are yet. They haven't come into my life. But I have to be a little bit selfish. And I think that word's gotten a bad rap. Maybe some people would call it self-aware or, or I have to, I have to, they would call it making space for myself, but it's easy for

me to describe it as I have to be a little bit selfish in the way I build my life so that I can build a brand that honors the people who are picking up what I'm putting down. Yeah. And it's also, I mean, and I actually really agree with that. And it's not just building a brand, I think. It's also, it's building your craft and building your voice to a level that allows you to then turn around and have the impact and have the depth of connection and have the ability to elevate on a next level. Yeah. You know, there's the awareness that you have to build. And then there's also, it's the ability,

you know, it's the competence to go out there and do work. And, you know, that competence doesn't often come when you're splitting your attention. You know, it takes sometimes, sometimes you have to go all in or pretty close, as all in as whatever your responsibilities in life allow you to do. And, but it's also, I think a lot of people don't, I'm curious what you think about this. I wonder sometimes whether people also don't go to that place and make themselves busy so that they can't go to that place. Because if they do, and then they do what they feel is like their best work, and they share it with the world, and it doesn't land the way that they hoped it would, that hurts. And they don't want to risk that. I think people do that all the time.

Yeah. I think it's a form of self-sabotage. I won't take the chance because I'm afraid of the feeling that I might get if it fails. That's a whole lot of if, mights, won'ts and things in a row. Whenever somebody introduces me at a conference or they say, she's an expert. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I am an expert in one thing and one thing only, and that is screwing up royally and learning from my mistakes. I didn't used to learn from them. I have learned to learn from them.

And that, and I hate the glorification of failure. Fail fast, fail often. No, fail in new and better ways, because otherwise you're doing the same shit over and over again and not getting positive results. So it's, I think the best thing any artist or any creator can do on any given day is to take one step closer to putting something out into the world that's going to change one person's life. And there are things in a world filled with social, inundated, permeated by social media. You wonder why one thing catches on and why one thing doesn't. And, or why one show gets the notoriety and the other one you think has better conversations and is a best kept secret. I mean, serve your audience. Give people something to latch on to. Give them something to appreciate. And not every brilliant idea you have, it's taken me so long to learn this, I have brilliant ideas

daily. But the thing is, is not everybody's going gonna think they're brilliant and some of the stuff that i think is just i'm just gonna vomit this out put a blog post out because i've got to get this out of my system today people are like it gets shared thousands of times and liked and post reposted and i'm like really you like that shit okay Okay. It's surprising. And I want, I still have times in my life right now where, like, I look at this solo show endeavor. And I'm like, that is me on a stage doing stuff that I wrote in front of an audience that can blame and no one else for how shitty that show is but me. But it's also me telling a story only I can tell to people who have never seen this before and who gave me the gift of sitting in front of me tonight and who will walk out the doors a different person than they were when they came through.

Where's the risk in that? I risk not, the biggest risk I have is not doing it. I mean, I posted a picture, it was down at Times Square Wednesday night when I went to go see Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time. And I stood in Times Square and I'm like looking around at 47th Street and Broadway and I'm going, one, it's a lot of people. Wow. Two, that Olive Garden is way too fucking big.

Jesus. Three, how gorgeous is this this place exists because people come to this city every day of the year except for mondays to come see theater in this town and they walk up and down these streets because nothing like this exists where they are or they want to be transported to another place or they heard it's the show to see and they want to see a big broadway musical that's why i do what i do what an amazing gift that is for an actor to have 1800 people in a theater asking to be transformed in one little way and to go back out those doors different than they came in. That's a heavy responsibility. One of my, Audrey, my mentor,

she shares a quote from Amy Morton, who's an icon in the Chicago theater community and theater community in general. And it's a statement, the Chicago theater community and theater community in general, and it's a statement, never let the audience live through you in a mediocre way. What a beautiful way for any creative to look at the process of creating and why they create. Because if you don't want the audience, your audience to live through you in a mediocre way, you have to have an opinion. You have to be steadfast, you have to know your voice, and you have to know what you're saying and why you're saying it. And you have to feel everything that you're going to feel no matter how messy it is. I mean, human beings are the most beautiful when they're at their messiest.

And I think going back to this circles back to what you were saying about risk, and this is me slamming my hand into the microphone. But people are afraid of the mess. I think people are very afraid of the mess, of the world to see their mess, because that's just not what you do. That's behind closed doors. It's family business. You have to have your shit together for that world out there. And you know what?

My shit is held together with duct tape, wood glue, and maybe some, I don't know, glue stick here and there and Spanx. That's how I get through life, with those things and Spanx. And I have this little folder in my inbox where I keep messages from readers. And when I'm having a shitty day, I read them. Because 99 times out of 100, it's somebody emailing me. I had I needed to read this today. And that my daring to share my mess, this glorious mess that I call my life, changed somebody else's life. Because it lets you know you're not alone. You know, the risk of not doing something because you're afraid it's going to fail. Somebody out there is scared of the exact same thing as you. The risk of not doing something because you're afraid it's going to fail.

Somebody out there is scared of the exact same thing as you. Wouldn't it be cool to know that there's somebody out there that feels the exact same way you do? And if more people said that they felt that way, maybe you'd get one step closer to taking what you call a risk. I don't know. It's a wacky idea I have about getting shit done in this lifetime it's crazy, call me crazy I am, I'm certifiable I think we all are at some level

which feels like a good place to come full circle too I'll come back to that question that I asked you a couple of years back so if I ask you, throw it out there the name of this is Good Life Project having lived a bit more of life And I asked you a couple of years back. So if I ask you, throw it out there. Name of this is Good Life Project. Having lived a bit more of life since last time we chatted, what does that mean to you?

What bubbles up? Living a good life is daring to be messy as telling the truth, being honest about this life that I live. Because I think if more people were honest about the life that they were living, they wouldn't feel so bad about their lives. They might feel better and more included and welcomed and not feel so alone. So my good life is sharing my mess to a certain level because you have to hold something back for yourself. But good life is sharing my mess so that other people know that their mess, it's a beautiful fucking mess. I think people deserve to know that. It's beautiful. Nobody can be like you. You're messy and I fucking love you for it. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, thanks so much for listening to today's

episode. If you found something valuable, entertaining, engaging, or just plain fun, I'd be so appreciative if you take a couple extra seconds and share it. Maybe you want to email it to a friend. Maybe you want to share it around social media. Or even be awesome if you'd head over to iTunes and just give us a rating. Every little bit helps get the word out, and it helps more people get in touch with the message. I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project.

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