Good Life Project - Chris Guillebeau – The Quest-Driven Life

Episode Date: September 25, 2014

10 years ago, Chris Guillebeau mounted a quest to do the impossible, to visit every country in the world.Along the way, he’s been hassled, deported, detained, harassed and threatened. But, far more often, he’s been welcomed and embraced, discovered the brilliance of a deeply connected world, built a global community of unconventional adventurers and, maybe more importantly, he experienced how an intensely challenging, years long quest changes you in ways he likely never saw coming.Turning 35, Guillebeau completed that quest in April 2014 and writes about this astonishing journey in his new book, The Happiness of Pursuit.In today’s conversation, we explore this remarkable person and journey. We dive into what led him to mount a quest to do what only a handful of people in the history of the planet have done. We explore the how his experiences earlier in life shaped him and how his decade long quest changed him in ways he never saw coming.This episode is also the first in our shift to our new audio podcast-driven media format. We'll continue to post a video version over on youtube with a static image for a while, but please be sure to subscribe below and listen and subscribe on iTunes to make sure you never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Some of the greatest things that happened to me were actually the misadventures, as I call them, things that went wrong. Not because I enjoyed them at the time when I was getting deported from Eritrea, you know, when I was sleeping on the floor of airports in Central Africa or getting in a car accident in Italy or different things that happened. I didn't enjoy those at the time, but they gave me confidence. You know, they helped me realize I'm going to be okay. Ten years ago, Chris Guillebeau mounted a quest to do the impossible, to visit every country in the world. Along the way, he's been hassled, deported, detained, harassed, and threatened. But far more often, he's been welcomed and embraced, discovered the brilliance of a deeply connected world, built a global community of unconventional adventurers, and maybe more importantly, he experienced how an intensely challenging, years-long quest changes you in ways he likely never saw coming.

I'm Jonathan Fields. This is Good Life Project. My guest today is Chris Guillebeau. Ten years ago, he began a journey that evolved into a quest to visit all 193 countries in the world, something only a handful of people in the history of the planet have done, and all before his 35th birthday. He completed that quest in April 2014 and writes about this in an astonishing new book, The Happiness of Pursuit. In today's conversation, we explore this remarkable person and journey. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,

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Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is?

You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. So you spent 10 years on a quest that puts you really in a league of only a handful of people in history. What was your why and how did this evolve?

So I began as a traveler. I just began as someone who loved to travel and I didn't have a goal established for it. I just loved being out in the world and exploring different places and making discoveries, meeting new people, just kind of challenging myself along the way. But I did like the idea of structure. I was always a list maker. I liked to write things down and check things off. And so at a certain point, I started keeping a list of all the countries I'd been to. And I went to maybe 30 to 40 countries or so just as part of the aid work I was doing in West Africa and traveling to nearby countries. And finally, I said, OK, wouldn't it be fun to have a goal of going to 100 countries? And then before I got too far along that goal, I said, let's step it up a little bit. Let's go to

every country in the world. So I guess the why was I had this idea, and it wouldn't leave me alone. And the more I thought about it, the more I realized if I didn't pursue it, I would always regret it. And so fortunately I decided to pay attention to that crazy idea. It took me, you know, it took me a little while, maybe a few months of kind of thinking about it, tossing it around and trying to understand what was involved with it before I accepted it. But once it really took root, I knew it was something that wouldn't go away. You spent some time in the Philippines when you were little. So how did that affect your lens on the world? So I grew up a lot of different places.

My parents split up, and I had two families, essentially. And my mom married this guy who was in the Air Force. And so we traveled around, and he was stationed different places. And the Philippines was one of those places. I was living there from the time I was six to the time I was eight or nine or so. And I don't know that it was the greatest experience at the time, just because I was a little American kid. And I, you know, was separated from my biological dad, you know, who was who was back in the States. So I missed him and I'm not sure I, you know, adapted super great. But maybe

in the long term, like it was good that I had that cross cultural experience, you know, early on. And then, of course, like as an adult, I went back to the Philippines, you know, more than once. And I really like it. It's a beautiful country and amazing culture. So you know, it's one of those things like short term wasn't so great, but maybe long term, it was it was the right thing to do. Well, what about also your experience living in a border town outside a Native American reservation in your early teens? So after we lived in the Philippines for a while, you know, this guy and my family got stationed, essentially, in this very small town in East Montana. It was the only place he could find work or something after he'd left the military, actually. And, yeah, I don't know, it was the only place he could find work or something after he'd left the military, actually.

And, yeah, I don't know. It was kind of a depressing place, to be honest, because it was this really, really small town of about 3,000 people next to a Native American reservation of about 3,000 people. There were a lot of social issues and social problems, both on the reservation and in the border town, a lot of drug abuse and alcohol abuse. And I think, you know, a lot of this, you know, relates to an economic issue. There wasn't a great, you know, a great many, you know, employment opportunities, not a lot of things to do

most of the time. So lots of people are struggling on both sides. I don't know, it was just kind of a hard experience. Not the greatest childhood in some ways, but again, maybe also good for, you know, having a cross-cultural experience and being aware that, you know, not everybody, you know, thinks the same way or lives the same way. So I am grateful that, grateful for that. And then also I went back to Montana on my first book tour and I went to the other part of the state and I realized it actually is a beautiful place. It just wasn't particularly beautiful, you know, the place I was living at the time. So how did your time in Liberia affect your outlook really on the world and, you know, your desire to mount your quest? So I spent about four years as a young adult then in West Africa, just kind of as a post 9-11 experience.

I was depressed, like lots of folks were. And I wanted to find a way to contribute to something meaningful. I wanted to find a way to challenge myself. And, and, you know, I just wanted to know if I could be part of a solution. Like, obviously, I couldn't do anything about that tragedy. But I wanted to, you know, find a way to contribute something meaningful in the world. And I heard about this hospital ship that was deployed off the coast of Liberia. It was Sierra Leone at first, actually. And, you know, I took on that challenge. I said, if there's anything I can possibly do to help, you know, I will. And I went there and it was just such a great experience. I mean, it was hard. It was tough at times, you know, challenging working in what literally was the poorest country in the

world, according to the UN Human Development Index at the time. You know, so, you know, challenging working in what literally was the poorest country in the world, according to the UN Human Development Index at the time, you know, so, you know, some things were quite discouraging, but other things were very hopeful, because we were able to make a difference in some people's lives. And, and just from a from a travel sense, I mean, this is kind of funny to think about it now. But from a travel sense, you know, I started traveling in that region, which is notoriously difficult, you know, lots of countries don't get along and they have this former colonial system. Sometimes you have to fly to three or four countries just to go from one place to another that's not that far apart, you know, just because of how the thing works. And I thought that was normal. You know, so later, like I started traveling the world and I'd been prepared for something that was maybe maybe, you know, I perceived that it was always going to be super difficult.

I was going to be shaken down for a bribe everywhere I went. And I realized that, no, that's pretty much just just West Africa and maybe a few other places in the world. But it's not super common. So probably good to to start with low expectations. Talk to me about the role of a calling in the process of doing something like this. So as I proceeded with what became the quest, and then as I met lots of other people who were also pursuing quests, I noticed that a lot of them used language that was pseudo-religious. Even if they weren't religious themselves,

they talked about how they had this mission and they had to fulfill it. And it was something that they felt they were born to do or made to do, or they simply had to pursue it. There it was something that they felt they were born to do or made to do, or they simply had to pursue it. You know, there was no other alternative. And I don't know if I was born to pursue this quest. I don't know about that. But I guess I, you know, I do feel to go back to what I said in the beginning about, you know, I had this crazy idea. The idea wouldn't just go away. Like I felt like I had to do this. I felt like I had found something that I was somewhat good at that was interesting to me, that was challenging,

and the challenge is a huge, huge part of any quest, I think. We don't want a quest to be super easy. Going back to the early days of quests, when the hero was sent out from the village to go and slay the dragon and rescue the princess or return with the ring or whatever the hero was supposed to do, you know, like the story is not supposed to be like the hero sent out from the village and then the hero comes back the next day. And he's like, actually, I thought it was going to be really

tough, but it was actually pretty simple. I got there and the dragon was asleep. You know, I just took the ring, came right back, you know, made it, made it home, you know, in time for bed or something. So the challenge I think relates, relates to the calling, because as you embrace that calling, you're like, yeah, let me do something that's difficult. Let me do something that's hard. Let me do something that's worth doing everything that's really meaningful in life. I think, you know, it might require a lot of work. And I think that's okay. And what about discontent? So another thing that's super common in quests is this notion of discontent or

dissatisfaction or feeling unsettled, feeling like you're not happy with a traditional life, or you're not happy with the way things are. Or maybe you have a good life, maybe you have a great relationship, a great family, you've got good work. But you still want something more, you know, you still long for more of a challenge because your basic needs are met. And I feel like this is also part of the human condition that we aspire to strive. We aspire to embrace that challenge. And a lot of the people that I talk to in the book, they found that when they combine this discontent with some kind of specific action, when they related it to a project, when they found some packaging for it or a wrapper for it, you know, that's what created greater purpose

and meaning in their lives. So I think discontent or even unhappiness, let's say, can be a positive force for good if we allow it to be. So how do you balance this yearning and urgency cultivated by discontent and gratitude and a willingness to recognize and honor what's in front of you right now? So something I really struggle with is being present tense aware or being present oriented. A lot of people who are striving towards something who are on a quest, who are otherwise future oriented, they're really good about planning. They're always thinking about what's next. And I think overall, this is healthy. There's a lot of studies that have shown that people who have hope or people who are future oriented, planning for the future, they tend to take

better care of their finances. They tend to take better care of their health, etc, etc. But perhaps I think it also comes at the expense of being, you know, present oriented, or at least present aware. And I do try to live with gratitude. It's one of those values. Like if you look at my website, it's like Chris Guillebeau, you know, tries to live with gratitude every day. But hopefully, it says tries. Now I'm wondering if it actually says I do, because if it says I do, I think that's probably inaccurate because I actually do struggle. And I do struggle with, um, just appreciating a beautiful sunrise. You know, I've seen beautiful sunrises all over the world and oftentimes I've just missed them or I haven't cared, or I've just been like, Oh, another sunrise. And that probably sounds terrible, but I feel like

that is, that is the weakness, you know,oriented individual. So it's something I'm trying to work on. Well, many people would have said that what you were planning to do was near impossible. Yet to you, if there was even an inkling of possibility, you were totally in. So talk to me about the role of feasibility in committing to a quest? So I think it's really important when you adopt one of these really big goals that the goal has to be challenging. As we've discussed, it's got to be something that's ambitious, that is going to require a lot of efforts in one way or another. But I think it has to also be somewhat feasible.

And what I mean by that is it has to be within the realm of possibility to use that phrase. It has to be something that you're like, wow, that's really hard, but I might actually be able to do that. I think that notion is really critical. I think, you know, if I had adopted the goal of like, I want to visit every planet in the solar system. Well, you know, at this stage in human civilization, that's not possible. Like it really is not possible. I mean, maybe someday someone will be able to do that. But going to every country in the world, as difficult as it is, I could see, you know, a vision for it. I could see like it might be possible. So, you know, lots of other great stories in the book. You know,

the man who ran 250 marathons in a single year, You know, for most of us, we think it's impossible. But for him, like he was able to see the feasibility of it. He saw the challenge, obviously, but he saw the feasibility of it. There's a man in Australia who produced the world's largest symphony, required more than 800 performers and multiple choirs, lots of specific instrumentation. It was hugely difficult to gather these kinds of resources. In fact, the symphony had only been performed a few times in history, usually in London or in Berlin or Vienna or somewhere, you know, not in Australia.

And it hadn't even been performed in decades. So it was hugely difficult, but yet it was feasible. Yet he realized, maybe, maybe, maybe I might be able to do it. So I think it's important that you have to, you have to be able to believe in your quest. So what was it like on the final day of the quest? And maybe more importantly, what about the morning after and the day after that and the day after that? So the final day was great. I wasn't alone, which probably helped. I had done much of the quest on my own. But then the final day, I was joined in Norway with my family and, and lots of friends and even a number

of readers, we had an end of the world party, where about 200 people traveled, you know, from, I think, 20 different countries to come and join me for that. So that was really fun. I mean, that was great. It also helped me kind of see, okay, like, you know, this is a great representation of what the quest has become, because it's not just about me. And I appreciate the fact that all those people came, but I don't think they all came just for me, at least I hope they didn't. You know, I think they came because of this great community that's kind of, you know, developed and evolved as a result of the project. So that was really fun. I didn't actually feel like, you know, super heartbroken or, you know, bitter or sad or anything that day, because like that was the end. That was, that was great.

However, um, something I learned in studying quests, both through my own experience, um, and through spending lots of time with other people, um, is that at some point at the end, either near the end or after the end, at some point there is this moment of, of disappointment and this moment of alienation, and perhaps loneliness, and just a little bit more of that unsettlement that you might have started with, you know, perhaps years ago. And, you know, I certainly had that moment, it was kind of like, this is my identity. For 10 years, literally for 10 years, you know, I have been the guy who's going to every country in the world. You know, here's Chris Guillebeau, we don't know how to pronounce his last name. But you know, it's Chris, you know, the guy who's going to every country in the world. You know, here's Chris Guillebeau. We don't know how to pronounce his last name, but, you know, it's Chris, you know,

the guy who's going to every country in the world, right? And, you know, now I had accomplished that goal and that was no longer my identity. I mean, like I could say I was the guy who did that, but I don't want to, you know, I don't want to live in the past, right? I want to do something different. So it was just a little bit,

it was a little bit like, okay, I got to figure out what's next, but I also maybe need to process this a little bit because this was a huge experience like, okay, I got to figure out what's next. But I also maybe need to process this a little bit, because this was a huge experience. And now it's over. And now what? You spent time interviewing a number of people who mounted large, often long term quests. What were some of the stories that really moved you most? And what were some of the patterns that you might have seen in common? So I heard lots of, you know, truly incredible, amazing stories, you know, stuff that we can hardly, you know, believe is possible, like the young woman who circumnavigated the globe in a small sailboat at the age of 16, actually becoming the youngest person in history, you know, to sail

around the world by herself. A young guy, Nate Dam, who walked across America in a seven and a half month process, walking from Maine to the San Francisco Bay. Lots of stuff like that. You know, it's very active and involves travel and exploration and journeys kind of like mine. But I didn't want to just kind of, you know, stick with the travel kind of theme because not everybody can travel. And the book is meant to be prescriptive. It's meant to be prescriptive. It's meant to kind of put forward a message and an agenda and say, you know, this is not just a collection of stories. This is a challenge to readers. And the challenge is that a quest can improve your life too. And a quest can bring meaning and purpose to your life, even if you can't run 250 marathons in a year or visit every

country in the world. So all that to say, I really enjoyed some stories of what I called ordinary people doing really remarkable things. And one of my favorite stories that I'm starting to talk about almost every day, just because I feel like it resonates with a lot of people, is the story of Sasha Martin. Sasha lives in Oklahoma now, but originally she was American, but she grew up in Europe and different places around the world. She had an international perspective, but then she married a guy and had a daughter and was thinking, how can I raise my family with that same international experience, international perspective, without being able to travel? And so Sasha also had a culinary arts degree.

I think it's really important in a quest to think about, you know, what you're excited about and also what you're skilled in. Do you have some kind of background that you could combine with your hobby or your passion? So she realized she had this culinary arts degree and she decided, well, I can't visit every country in the world, but I'm going to make a meal from every country in the world. And so this became her quest. I'm starting from when her daughter Ava was six months old and going until she was about three years old. Every week, Sasha would make a very elaborate meal from a different country or culture around the world. And she ended up sharing her recipes online. She ended up cultivating a community built around food

and culture and just global awareness and peace. And it just became this fantastic project. And she talks about how it kind of transformed her family as well in the book. So I love, love, love stories like that, that show that anyone can embrace the value of adventure, no matter who they are, no matter where they live. Part of the process is really is striving towards something, but part is also enduring a certain amount of, for lack of better words, suffering, it seems. So how do you frame that in a way that

allows you to continue on? You know, whether it's suffering or just part of the process, I think it's very helpful to think about the outcome, to think about the destination or the goal. You know, there's always something at the end of a quest. You know, in the book, we had to think about, okay, what exactly is a quest? Because I did a call for submission, and I heard from all kinds of stuff, you know, like thousands of submissions. And a lot of them we noticed are kind of general. A lot of them are like, well, I want to lose weight. Well, I want to quit smoking, you know, and those are, those are good things you should do for your health. Um, and lots of things you should do to improve your life, but it's not really a quest, right? Quest is something, you know, that requires a little bit more long-term effort. There's usually incremental

steps and there is this, this final destination that you're working toward. So I think it helps to kind of keep that in mind. Um, you know, and, and maybe also like, I know, you know, you and I have talked before about when the right time is to quit and when you should keep going. I think it also depends on how far along you are in the quest. You know, if you're beginning a 10 year project and in year one, you're kind of sick of it. Um, I would never tell, you know, someone just kind of suck it up and keep going at year one. If you've got a long, long, long way to go, and you're really not enjoying it. But maybe at a certain point, like you cross this, like, you know, suck it up point, you know, barrier or something. And like, if it's year eight of your 10 year quest, I think you should keep going, right? Because you've got

this outcome, and you've done so much. And there were different points along my journey where I was ready to quit. But I also thought about like, well, I don't want to be the guy who's been to a bunch of countries. You know, I don't want to be the guy who's been to a bunch of countries. You know, I don't want it to be like there are 193 countries in the world and Chris Guillebeau went to 150 of them. Wow. You know, that's just not interesting.

So I guess I really was interested in that story, not from a publicity, you know, perspective, but just from an internal story. I wanted the internal challenge. I wanted to overcome that. That's really what kept me going. Like I knew I could do this for myself, or at least I thought I could. It was in that realm of possibility we discussed.

And so I didn't want to give up. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch,

getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. You ended up sharing your process of travel and along the way, you built a pretty huge global following that's turned into also a series of successful professional ventures. I mean, was any of that part of the original plan? And how did the fact that you were operating on such a public scale affect your choices, really, if at all? It definitely was not part of the original plan. Definitely, there was no strategy for that. I just began it as my own project. And I was happy when I started blogging about it. And I thought, maybe one day, if you read the very first post to my blog, my goal was maybe one day,

1,000 people will subscribe to this blog. And that seems like a huge number of people. And I'm just happy to do this. There was no business associated with it. There weren't these events that we're doing now. I did hope to write a book at some point, but I didn't know if it would be a successful book. I didn't know it would be a series of books. So no, no, that was something that developed. And then I think you said something about now that you know, now that you're operating, you know, more publicly, did that affect your choices?

I can honestly say, like, I've thought about this truly and honestly, and I can honestly say it did not affect my choices, at least not any major choice. I knew that I would pursue the quest no matter what. I was glad that people, you know, were coming along and engaging with it. In fact, it made it so much better, no doubt. But I think I would have seen it through regardless. I mean, there was a moment, like, not just a moment, there was a time, a phase when, you know, I maybe felt a little conflicted between choices I would make for my career or choices I would make, you know, for the travel. But again, I think I can say that I made the right choices, you know, at least in regards to that, because I believed in that internal story. I believed that I had to see it through. I know that you tend to reject the concept of mastery as something that should be pursued, but it seems that the Holy Quest requires a similar level of

intensity and sacrifice. So how would you distinguish between the efforts to achieve each? Yeah, I guess when I think about a quest, again, I think of a quest as something specific. It does have a timeline to it for the most part. But, you know, I also, I mean, I also wrote a lot about stand-up comics in the book who have devoted their lives essentially to mastering their craft. You know, I wrote about a mutual friend of ours, Tina Roth Eisenberg, Swiss Miss, another mutual friend, Seth Godin, you know, and I kind of made the argument that they have essentially devoted their lives to, you know, mastering, you know, the art of curation or the

art of producing, you know, a series of works. And one of the great quotes I love that I think I probably stole from Seth and then modified in my own way was, effort can be its own reward if you let it. And I thought about that a lot. Effort can be its own reward as long as we allow it to be. So maybe a quest has that specific destination and mastery doesn't, but I certainly can see some parallels and consistencies between them. What does a quest give you? What does it actually add to your life that makes each day in some way better? So the argument that I'm making in the book is that quests and adventure can bring purpose and meaning to our lives. And I know this is a bold argument. I know this is, you know, in some

ways it might've just been easier to write a memoir of like, oh, I did, you know, I went to all these countries. Wasn't it fun? Wasn't it awesome? Or I could have even just written the stories of people without, you know, applying this prescriptive angle. But I really, really and truly do believe that a quest can bring purpose and meaning to our lives. And a quest brought purpose and meaning to my life. Doesn't mean that I was a miserable person, you know, or a terrible person before I had the quest. But I can say that the quest gave me confidence. You know, it helped me understand that I could embrace challenge. That, you know, some of the greatest things that happened to me were actually the misadventures, as I call them, things that went wrong.

Not because I enjoyed them at the time when I was getting deported from Eritrea, you know, when I was sleeping on the floor of airports in Central Africa or, you know, getting in a car accident in Italy or different things that happened. I didn't enjoy those at the time, but they gave me confidence. You know, they helped me realize, like, I'm going to be OK. And they also gave me something to do, you know, which might sound kind of basic. But what I mean by that is it gave me a next step. It gave me that hope or that future orientation that there's something else I'm building toward. You know, I've got 100 countries down. Well, got to do another 50. Got 150. Well, you know, got to get up to 193. There's lots of little sub goals along the way. There's a goal of going to, you know, each region, you know, goal of getting those really hard countries,

Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq, you know, whatever it is, goal of going to these islands in the South Pacific that are really remote and hard to get to. I derived a lot of value from that, from focusing on that. And the criticism is always like you're just checking countries off a list. Well, I would say there's actually value in doing that. There's value of having a list and marking things off. It's no reflection. It's not like you're judging or placing some expert authority status on yourself you know, expert authority status, you know, on yourself

for being an expert in every country. I've never, ever claimed anything like that. But I will say there's a lot of value in the pursuit. There's a lot of value in identifying a goal and working toward it with all your heart and just finding a way to accomplish the goal, you know, by any means necessary, right? By any means that you can possibly do. I find so much value in that. And that's why i pursued the quest you know because as i said i knew i'd regret it if i didn't and i'm so so glad that i did coming off the quest the next day the morning after talking about how you're on other radio shows where it's soundbite driven you don't get a chance to process or just trying to

figure it out you know and and people are like what what's it, you know, what's it like? And I guess I started thinking about what's next, you know, sooner or later, I started thinking about, okay, it was wonderful that I had that experience. Let's do live in the present for once and appreciate that fact. And then, you know, when the time is right, let's think about what else, you know, what's coming. And I think it relates to, you know, what I learned along the way and how I was changed along the way. And one of the big things was, you know, I began this process as a solitary, independent traveler, just doing my own thing without the blog, without the books. But then now there is this incredible community. You know, there are these events that we do. I go on the road and not just to go to Eritrea and get deported, but I go on the road to

dozens of cities in North America and elsewhere to hang out with my readers and talk with them. And so I kind of knew going into it that, you know, whatever I did next was going to have a focus much more on community. It's going to have a focus much more on, as you alluded to earlier, telling other people's stories and, you know, doing something that encourages people and brings them together. So that's kind of what I'm, what I'm focused on. Yeah. So it sounds like you're still figuring it out a little bit. I don't have a good matrix for it. I don't have a good, like, this is, this is the one liner, but, um, I feel really fortunate to, you know, produce WDS and the other stuff,

so it's going to all relate to that. Yeah. Do you feel like you're past the melancholy part of leaving the quest behind? Yeah, I think I'm all right. It's been a year. After 10 years, it could take a year or more. Yeah, you never know. But no, I'm actually talking about it a lot with other people who also have their own adventures and quests. So I think that's interesting is to kind of reflect it back on them.

Yeah. What was it like to actually sit down and write a book about this entire process? It was hard. Yeah. This is my third book, and it was the hardest book to write of the three so far, the most personal book. I missed my deadline for the first time ever. I always tried to be early, you know? Um, and this time I was four months late because I wasn't quite sure exactly how to, how to share

the story. So hopefully the book is better in the end, you know, because we put more time into it. Um, but it was, uh, more of a challenging process than I expected. Was that because it was so much more personal that it was just that much more important to really get it, get what was in your head? Yeah, I think so. And then I just that much more important to really get it, get what was in your head. I think so. And then I just, I kind of struggled with, with the daily routine of writing, which was frustrating for me because I've always been very process driven. And I really kind of struggled with how to package these stories and what is the right amount of my stories versus other people's stories. And then the narrative of, you know, how one pursues a quest.

I really had a hard time kind of putting it all together. I have to give credit to my editor. He made a huge difference for this book. I think maybe the other thing is, you know, in the past I was writing about super practical things. Not to say a quest is not practical, but, you know, the previous book is The $100 Startup, telling people how to start a business for less than $100. You know, there's been pretty easy. I mean, I don't want to say they're easy, pretty clear steps, pretty clear process to defining that down. Whereas for this, it's like you're talking about a quest. It can mean a lot of different things. What is a quest? What kind of quests are we talking about? How do we lead the reader, you know, through this journey?

So it was, it was just a harder uh you know harder method of execution if you're looking for flexible workouts peloton's got you covered summer runs or playoff season meditations whatever your vibe peloton has thousands of classes built to push you we know how life goes new father new routines new. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever,

making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS are later required.

Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg.

You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight risk. Not to be the author who complains about writing books, because I always hate when authors do that. Like, you have a great life. You can write books. It's great.

I'm not taking it as complaining about it. But it is interesting to see how, you know, when you do something really big, you do something that's deeply meaningful to you, and then you turn around, and then you have to go through the process of writing about it. You know, does that for the first time help you process and understand maybe, you know, like looking back, oh, this is why I did this, or this is what this was really about. And when you talk to all these other people that have done something similar, you start to pattern recognize, which is like my thing is like, I just get all this, you know, million data points.

I'm like, oh, pattern recognition engine kicks in. I'm like, ah, now I start to get something about me or about the world and stuff like that. But very often it doesn't happen until I actually start and, you know, A, reflect, you know, B, contemplate and C, get a whole bunch of external data points so that I can get like reference and I get enough data so I can see common patterns. I think you're a lot more strategic than me. It's not strategic at all.

It's just like, for better or for worse, that's my process. That's how you work. I've always appreciated that about you. I think one thing that did help was to think more about the stories and to think, oh, I actually did go through this process of making a list of all the different things that happened along the way, just in my little Evernote, typing out, oh, this country, this thing, this country, this thing. I forgot about that, you know. And it was interesting because, again, I am future-oriented,

so I'm often just kind of going through life thinking about the next day, and then I don't actually, you know, future and present tense discussion aside, I really don't think at all about the past. I really do not reflect, you know, on things in the past. I'm not really into nostalgia. But then this book was a process of being a little nostalgic and thinking back. So that was probably good. Maybe that's also why it was so challenging for you because that's just not your process. So I didn't really key in it, but you were just massively forward looking um for better or worse as you said yeah you know um

that's part of the time it's interesting we're talking with uh you know a friend of ours also nancy duarte and he's built this tremendous firm and you know she's like the mama bear for her company um but you know i remember her telling me that she's she's constantly living in the future. She feels like her job is to constantly be looking three to five years out and trying to figure out where the need is and where the market is going so that she can take that window of time to position everything that they're doing so that they constantly stay. Like the lead, no matter where things go, which requires you to spend a lot of energy, um, living out there, but, um, yeah, it's an interesting dance. So, so last question, good life. What does it mean to you? I like this way of thinking about happiness or good life that says, you know, I get up in the morning and I'm really excited about the day ahead. I'm excited about what I'm working on and I feel like I'm building something, etc., etc.

I have good relationships, good health, doing something that matters. But as excited as I am about today, I also believe that tomorrow is going to be even better. I have hope. I have that thing that I'm looking for. I have that thing that I'm working toward that thing that I believe in on the other side. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to Good Life Project. If you liked this episode, we'd be so grateful if you'd share a quick review over on iTunes. It helps us get the word out to more people and make a bigger difference in the world. And while you're there, be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it.

Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch,

getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday, we've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th.

Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk.