Good Life Project - Closets Are No Place to Live: Ash Beckham

Episode Date: October 17, 2014

When you hear the phrase “coming out,” what do you think about?For most people, it’s telling the world you’re gay. Truth is, we’ve all got closets. Deep thoughts, experiences, beliefs, often so painful they lay buried under piles of emotional laundry in the dark corner of our closets.Thing is, holding these things back is a source of pain. You can push it away, deny it, but it’s always there. Until one day, the pain of keeping it hidden exceeds the pain of letting it out. And, so you do. That moment is hard. Really hard. And there's no comparing your hard to someone else.Ash Beckham knows this. She's lived it. And now, she's talking about it.When Ash stepped onto the stage at TEDx Boulder last year, her intention was simple. Share her story. Talk about closets and comparisons. And how they can unlock or destroy our lives. Twelve minutes later, the audience rose to applaud and Ash thought that was that. Until a few weeks later when the video was posted and exploded online. Seems she’d touched a nerve. That talk is now one of the most watched TED talks of all time. And it’s thrust Ash into a global spotlight.Now, we're talking to her in this week's episode of Good Life Project. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You might not ever know what it's like to love someone of the same sex in a romantic way. But you know what it's like to be in love. And I know what it's like to be in love. And so that feeling that you have in your gut when you're scared, or when you're in love, or when you have your heart broken, or when you're nervous about something, that's the same. So when you hear the phrase, coming out, what do you think about? Well, for most people, it's telling the world that you're gay truth is we've all got closets that we come out of though

you know deep thoughts experiences beliefs often so painful that they lay buried under piles of emotional laundry in that dark corner of our closets. And the thing is, every deeply held secret is also a source of incredible pain. You can push it away, you can deny it, but it's always there until one day the pain of keeping it hidden exceeds the pain of letting it out. And so you do. That moment is hard, really, really hard. And that's what we're talking about in this week's episode. I'm Jonathan Fields. This is Good Life Project. When Ash Beckham stepped into the stage at TEDx Boulder last year,

her intention was simple. Share her story. Talk about the closets and comparisons and how they can unlock or destroy lives. Twelve minutes later, the audience rose to applaud, and Ash pretty much thought that was that. Until a few weeks later, when the video was posted and exploded online, it seemed she really touched a nerve. That talk is now one of the most watched TED Talks of all time.

And it thrust Ash into a global spotlight. The Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

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On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. You actually did your TEDx talk in Boulder. In September of last year.

In September. And then it hit the airwaves in October-ish. Yeah, October, early November. Right. And it sounds like everything changed for you. You know, I had done my first public speaking talk in Boulder, uh, February of 2013, which was great. And, you know, had got some traction on the internet, you know, a little bit. I mean, for me it was huge and, and I didn't really know what to do with that. And then for work,

my family does, uh, we put on sports tournaments, youth sports Oh, cool. So summer is like kind of the busy season. So I got a couple gigs and signed a couple things and then decided that the same folks that did Ignite Boulder do TEDx in Boulder. So I talked back and forth with them and then sat down with Aaron and was like, okay, now that I'm in this TED thing, what are we going to do? And then developed that and then didn't really, and I was like, yeah, it's 12 minutes. Like nobody's going to listen to anything. The other thing was five people watching. Right. I'll bang it out. I'll move on. Exactly. I was like, if that thing, you know, and it was never really about the numbers, but I was like, you know,

if it gets a hundred thousand, like I'll be happy. I'll never get the half a million or whatever the other one did. And then it got picked up and just went, went crazy. And that was, you know, November to December and it was you know november to december and it was just nuts right and and now i think it's one of the top like watch ted talks um in this stunningly short period of time right yeah it's feel it well you know just wasn't really what i was expecting and i guess the you know the context of that for me was you don't know what it feels like to come out of the closet if you're gay, so here's something it feels like. So it was that very, here's how you can relate to me,

was kind of the origin of that. But then to watch it kind of expand to people, there are conversations that are happening between people about their relatability that has nothing to do with sexuality or anything else, that has really been the part that has seemed so amazing to me is that it's so much bigger than what I had initially kind of set out for it to do. Yeah. So kind of like deconstruct what the talk was about a bit for those who haven't.

And for those who haven't seen it, if you haven't seen it, go check it out on TED. It's an incredible 12-minute sequence. It'll really move you. But kind of take me inside that talk, what you felt it was about, what you wanted to communicate, and how that landed. Right. So I kind of started in these kind of community-supported events of public speaking because I had friends that were having kids. And my sister had kids. And I was realizing, I was like, in certain contexts, these folks are going to have – these kids will have a hard time because someday they'll use the word gay in a negative way.

There's not this understanding and this commonality and you grow up in certain circles and, and that's fine. But then you get into a public school system or whatever, and you, you know, you don't have people with the same experiences. So that's kind of when I started, that was the origin of kind of me starting to talk, but also Boulder is a really progressive place. So to kind of stump speech about marriage equality, like was going to kind of fall on, on the gay choir for lack of a better word. And so we, you know, so kind of stump speech about marriage equality, like was going to kind of fall on the gay choir, for lack of a better word. And so we, you know, so kind of putting it together

and kind of thinking of that relatability and how it really isn't that different and how we're so, you know, we have so much in common and to be able, when you have that, those kind of human moments and kind of giving people a break and not having them, you know, nobody has to be politically correct if they're genuinely trying. Like if you put up your defenses all the

time, you miss, miss an opportunity to kind of have the connection. And, and that's, I think, you know, where the societal movement and the changes happen isn't because anybody's passed a law, it's because more people are out and more people know people in it. And it, you know, has this kind of normative quality that it didn't necessarily used to have. And it's in, it's in media in ways that we've never seen it before. And that that shift has been so different. And so the point was, here's a couple stories of times when I was, with experiences that I've had in my life as being gender nonconforming

or kind of coming out as lesbian or what that has been. And when you kind of take a breath and give people a second and you're actually real with them, it really gives you an opportunity to, to have that interpersonal connection. Yeah. And I think, I mean, that's what happened when I saw, you know, that, that it was, um, it was one woman and a mic, you know, and just telling, largely telling stories and telling little vignettes of just real world scenarios like that, you know, like short little moment that you shared about you and the little girl.

Would you mind just sharing that? Yeah, sure. So I was working at a restaurant in Boulder at a cafe and, you know, I was going through different phases of, you know, my self-expression. And so shaved head and, you know, cargo shorts and whatever. And I would get a question often from little kids that were like, are you a boy or are you a girl? And I would have these really intense reactions to that. And whether it was like, you know, it happened in an airport or a mall or, you know, getting challenged going into a restroom.

And so I had kind of this anxiety build up around it. And it happened enough and I had no response. And so then finally, you know, then I was kind of ready to go off on this table at one point and then realized it was just like this four-year-old girl with a question. And having kids in my life, you realize kind of the innocence of that question. Like they say things that are just genuinely what they want to know. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't have the polished, polished kind of, uh, uh, I guess social PG rating that a lot of things have. There's no filter.

Just the questions. Right. Exactly. So then you, you know, then, then I, I you know I'm so enraged by this and had kind of made a promise myself like I had to say something like I couldn't just turn away or you know clench my jaw and I had to say something but then you realize when you're gonna have this interaction with this kid like I couldn't you know I had four-year-olds in my life that I adored and you know to kind of challenge them or chastise them for something they didn't know anything

better about didn't make sense so you know we kind of had this interaction chastise them for something they didn't know anything better about didn't make sense. So, you know, we kind of had this interaction and I was like, ah, I can't yell at this kid. So then I was like, Hey, you know, I know it's kind of confusing because it absolutely is. So you kind of acknowledge the reality of that. So I was like, I know it's kind of confusing. You know, I kind of look like a boy, but I'm a girl. And, you know, sometimes, and she, you know, pink fairy dress, like she was like done up to the, to the T. And, and so I said, well, you know, if you're, um, sometimes you're, you like to wear your fairy princess dress like she was like done up to the to the tee and and so I said well you know if you are um sometimes you're you like to wear your fairy princess dress and sometimes you like to wear comfy jammies well you know I'm more of a comfy jammies kind of girl and this kid like without missing a beat was like my favorite pajamas are purple with fish and then just like

moved on was like okay you're a girl how about my pancake right and it was so it was just like an honest exactly it seems so monumental to me. And for, for her, which is a question of like, okay, here's like a little box. And, and so for me, it was this, you know, and it was a, it was a four-year-old and obviously it was, you know, kind of contextual, but to kind of sit there and have her have this very real interaction with me and that it wasn't the issue that I was making it in my head. And then you realize you, you know, you watch, and I'd been in the same scenario dozens of times and you could just like, it was palatable, the tension. And then to see the whole table, you know, the mom, the dad, the brother, like

everybody just kind of relax was great. And like, you know, who knows what those folks were, you know, where they stood politically, what any of that meant, but maybe the next time that happened, or maybe the next time this kid saw someone that didn't look how she thought they were supposed to, that it was different. You know, I feel like you can't underestimate the impact that those little interactions can have. Yeah. I mean, I think we're so consumed by propriety. You know, it's like, am I?

So, and look, I've caught myself doing the same thing. And it's not about whether someone's gay or not. It's just, it's like anyone who's different. Yeah. Right? And you're looking at it and you're like, okay, I or not. It's just like anyone who's different. Yeah. Right? And you're looking at it and you're like, okay, I want to look, but I don't want to look. Right.

You know, like somebody who's covered with tattoos, like somebody who has a face full of ink, you know, you're like, what's going on there? It's funny. We were in Costa Rica about a month or two ago and we went rafting and one of the raft guys was this guy who had a full face of really scary looking, like almost like Joker from Batman, like tattoos. And he had all of his teeth were replaced with like sharpened chrome teeth. And so you want to look and you want to ask.

But we were a little terrified to actually ask what was going on. But, you know, we're so concerned with, well, you're like, I'm not supposed to look. I'm not supposed to ask. I'm not. And, you know, kids don't have that veil. And if you can take yourself back there. But I think the concern is more just, I don't want to, I don't know what the ethic is here. What's the thing to do when you don't know if somebody is a boy or a girl or gay or straight?

Is it just don't ask? Is that the respectful thing to do? Or is it know if somebody is a boy or a girl or gay or straight? Like, is it just don't ask? Like, is that the respectful thing to do? Or is it just be straight up and ask? Or is it really, is there no ethic? It's completely like one person is going to be incensed if you ask a question and the other person is going to be like, I'm so glad that you asked that. Right. I think you're right. I mean, I think that it is really personal and that you put in any of those kind of categories of folks that, you know, look different than, you know, from our own perspective that look different, like they're going to react in a certain way. And I think that there's like a genuineness to it that, that feels really great.

Um, when somebody just wants to have that conversation with you and some folks are open to it and some folks aren't. And, and, you know, I think even now there's this, you know, constantly evolving, at least in, you know, my realm is kind of the LGBTQ world, but now it's like LGBTQ, a, I, I, it feels like, you know, there's, it feels like, ah, you're like 3.14. And you want to honor all of those folks that, that do that and have that and are, are, you know, identify in whatever way that you want everybody to be able to check a box. But, you know, you could be the most progressive person in the world, you could be the, you know, poster child for LGBTQ stuff, which, you know, right now, that feels like that's me a little bit. And I don't know if I know all the right words are all the right phrases, but

you kind of go in with, you know, there's, there's a difference, I think, especially from an adult perspective of, are you a boy? are you a girl or you know what pronouns do you prefer or you know I think it's so isolating for me personally to not be asked to not like have that interaction for people to be so afraid of offending and you know I think

20 years ago I probably had a totally different perspective but now I'm like I would so much rather have somebody have that conversation with me than not say anything because they're afraid they're going to say the wrong thing. Yeah. I mean, it's funny. I had, um, fairly early in this project, I, um, I was sitting down with somebody who, uh, uh, had a fairly pronounced lifelong stutter and we're having a great conversation. She was lovely and smart, but, halfway through, I found myself, I was like, I kept wanting to finish our sentences for her. Sure.

I just kept wanting to get her there. And I was like, okay. And literally, in my head, I'm sitting there, you know, like we're filming this thing. And I'm like, do I just hold back? And then I was like, okay, if I'm feeling this, I guarantee you there are a whole bunch of people who are going to watch this who are wondering the same thing. Like they all, they're all going to want to jump in also. And so I just, I'm like, look, I don't know if this is appropriate or not, but I've got to ask you, like, this is what's happening, you know? And what do I do? You know, what's the right answer?

And she said to me, she's like, number one, thank you for asking me, you know, because now we can just have a conversation about it and you can know like how I feel about it. And I can tell you like, just, you know, this is the answer. And, um, it was, it was really freeing. And like all of a sudden the sort of like the tension went out of the conversation and we just kind of kept jamming. Totally. Yeah. No, I think that that's having that conversation and having kind of the vulnerability to ask of like, you know, I feel bad. I don't know how to react to this. I don't have that experience. I mean, I think when everybody, if you align yourself as like politically correct or self-aware, embracing diversity, that you are supposed to have all the answers of how everyone wants to be treated or addressed or regarded or anything like that.

And, you know, I don't think on my end, there aren't a lot of people that actually expect that. They just want to have a conversation because we've all been in that same role in a different context. Right. You know what I mean? One of the concepts that you brought up in your talk

was this idea of there is no harder. There is only hard. Right. And it was really fascinating. I think in my senses, that's one of the things that really resonated with people because that resonated with me because we're all kind of like comparing.

I was like, well, sure, you have to do that. But I had to endure this. I was like, really? Right. And it comes from, I think it comes from both sides. Like there's, you know, you want to relate to somebody. I mean, I think we all just as beings that exist want to have that relatability.

But when you go, you know, you kind of downplay somebody who hasn't had it as hard as you've had it. Or if you're trying to relate to somebody on whatever it might be, and you know, you say, you know, I say, well, you know, it was really hard when I told my parents when I came out of the closet. And your response is, you know, it was really hard when I had to break up with my ex-girlfriend. I think you kind of like lessen your own struggle because it isn't on this like basis of relatability of like the somatic feeling. It's like, well, that obviously, how can you possibly compare that to this? But, but I think if we come from a different perspective of, you know, it's the same at a very basic level.

It's like, if you, you know, I don't, you know, you, you might not ever know, it's the same at a very basic level. It's like, if you, you know, I don't, you know, you, you might not ever know what it's like to love someone of the same sex in a romantic way, but you know what it's like to be in love. And I know what it's like to be in love. And so that like feeling that you have in your gut when you're scared or when you're in love or when you have your heart broken or when you're nervous about something like that's the same. And regardless of, of what source that is, like, that's something that we can relate. It's one of the reasons that I love, um, climbing, you know, rock climbing. We were talking about earlier that you can, you know, if we're there and we're in a gym or we're climbing up a mountain, it's really hard for me. And that doesn't matter if it's a five, seven and you're climbing a five, 14, like I'm doing the best I can and I am scared to death. And what it feels like to not know if you can hang

on to that doesn't really matter because we can relate to that. Like, Oh my God, that's, that's, that's really hard. And there's kind of this acknowledgement afterwards of like, I felt what you were feeling, even though we were doing completely different things. And I feel like that's something that people can really relate to. Yeah. And I think we live in a world where we kind of like, we spend so much time judging how we're doing in relation to other people. Yeah. There's great research around this also. And there was, I'm trying to remember what the research was exactly, but in terms of like income, like if somebody was, I remember a study where somebody said, you know, like you can either make a hundred thousand dollars a year, but be making, uh, you know, $50,000 less than everybody else around you, you know, or you can make like,

uh, 75 a year, but be making 25 more than everyone else around. People would take less money to make as long as they were making more than the people around them and we like we're so dialed into measuring how we're succeeding in life by how we're succeeding in comparison to people around us rather than just absolute like looking in a little bit and saying okay how's this making me feel like am i okay exactly and i think that that i think you know the more that i've talked to people and have had folks that have had, you know, that their closet has been something different than mine, but they kind of know what that feels like, that there's this, you know, this relatability of once you realize that whatever you've been hiding, or whatever, you know, there's something different about all of us and something that we're insecure about or whatever that might be.

And when you kind of look internally and know what that is, it makes you incredibly empathetic about what other people's struggles are. Like you kind of have less of this, like, well, just pick yourself up by your bootstraps mentality. You have this like, God, I can, I can relate to what that struggle is. And sure, it's not my struggle and I've had struggles, but what's important is not if my struggles were harder, like how can you possibly minimize someone else's heart?

Like, you know, it's so relative. And I think that that's the easiest way to kind of create this culture that is embracing diversity and is open and celebrating it is to kind of look at those differences ourselves. And then it makes you, I guess a lot, it makes you more empathetic towards what anybody else is, is going through. And I think, you know, that's kind of what, what we're shooting for. Yeah. I mean, there's no doubt empathy is,

empathy is powerful on so levels. I mean, but one of my curiosities is always, you know, can you train empathy? You know, some people just touch down and they, they weep at Hallmark commercials. And to a certain extent, that's me, actually. You know, like, I've kind of dialed into other people's emotions, sometimes on a level that's not great. Right. But, you know, if you don't have that, you know, it is that a is is, is that a bad thing if you walk through life oblivious to like other people's experiences and interactions? And, and, and can you actually train that? Are there things that you can do? It's kind of a curiosity of mine because, you know, just in terms of making you sort of like allowing you to flourish in so many different parts of life

and business, just in interpersonal relationships and stuff like that. Right. I don't know if you can train it. I mean, I think it takes some introspection. And if you're willing to do that, you can kind of see this relatability and you see that your commonalities are, you know, that we're way more defined by what we have in common than what we have different just as a society. And if that's something that you're willing to accept as a concept,

which is just like biologically factual, I think that then you can, you can learn that to some extent. And I think, I mean, I think you can go through life and not be empathetic, but I think it's really lonely. No,

no, I mean, I think that's just a, you're not truly in engaging or inner or interacting with the world. If you, if you don't have that empathy. And I think empathy breeds empathy. Like the more empathetic you are, the more understanding you are, the more you try to

see other people's perspective. I mean, I think from a business perspective, if you're not willing to see diversity as a positive, then I think you're kind of taking yourself out of the market. I mean, it's a competitive disadvantage. And if you're not, if you're not willing to, in some way, try and stand in the shoes of the person you're seeking to serve. Exactly. I mean, you're busted, you know, then you're just like, if you happen to hit, like be off

or something that, you know, like matches up with them, then it's kind of dumb luck. Right. Rather than, no, let me actually see if I can really get, you know, like, what's this person feeling? What's their life like? What's their pain? What are the delights that they're looking at? You know, all these things.

I mean, I think it's a huge asset. To a certain extent, it just kind of popped into my head. I wonder if empathy, if you're someone who doesn't have a ton of it, is less trainable and more like, but there can be moments in a person's life, like occasions or just like where, boom, you snap. I remember somebody who I met along the way ended up an addict and ended up passing away. And, you know, for years, you would never know if, you know, he was on the street, if he was, what was going on. And, and before I knew who he was, knew he was actually a lovely guy. You know, it's entirely possible that I would have stepped over him and like looked down and been like junkie. Right.

You know, and then I, you know, when I actually found out like his story, you know, like there was something horrific that happened to this guy. Right. When he was a kid and the demons just never left because of that. And anybody who went through what this person went through would have had a really, really difficult time being in life from that day forward. Absolutely. And now all of a sudden you're like, oh, they're booked for God's grace, go I.

Right. It's like, who am I to judge this person? And all of a sudden you're like, okay, if something happens that kind of awakens you to the notion that that could be me and you got to know this guy on whatever level and then i feel like not only do you look at him but then you look at other people that you would have put in that category you're like totally well maybe there's a story and that we all have like we all come from a place and there's some reasons and some of us have made bad choices and you you know, whatever that, you know, life just comes the way that it does. But I feel like, I mean, I know there's, you know, like with regard to the immigration debate and wherever people kind of lie on that, you know, I've worked in a bunch of restaurants. And I know folks that are some of my closest friends who can't see their families because they can't go home if because they can't come back and they can't work.

And so at that point, you get this very like guttural feeling of right and wrong. And you're just like, I, no one can ever convince me that that's okay. Like, however we need to change it, whatever we need to do, like this is just fundamentally on a basic human rights level, wrong. And that will never, and the same thing,

from a pretty conservative Catholic-driven culture, these are folks that knew me who had never really had a ton of exposure to same-sex relationships, and now would be the first people to march in a pride parade because it's personal. And I feel like when we make those personal connections, you know, whatever it was, with your friend that kind of, you know, made that interaction happen, those are your, like you're saying, those turning points where something

clicks in your brain where you're like oh wait a second it's not it's not us and them like there's this very clear relationship that like it's really not that different yeah like you're saying no and i totally agree i think it's like you know when you when you you take the step from moving away from looking at like a class of people right Right. And the assumption you made them to like, okay, just take one person in that group who you've labeled, you know, like whether, you know, like illegal immigrants or whatever, like the politically correct name is for, you know, people who are in this country without documentation now to knowing one,

like understanding their life and their decisions and their, you know, it's like you, you draw very different different conclusions regardless of what the law says like when you actually start to interact on an individual human to human level um you know just everything changes um but i think we're so terrified of doing that and again it almost circles back to what we're talking about when we start the conversation which is we're so freaked out about propriety we're so freaked about so freaked about screwing with the social norms in conversation. What are we supposed to do? What are we not supposed to do?

And I think being judged for getting it wrong. Absolutely. And that we've all been in a class, in a category of people that has been judged and the label doesn't fit for whatever reason. And that you know what it feels like to be labeled a New Yorker and whatever that means to people in the Midwest or, or, or whatever some of these things were evil.

And exactly. And, you know, impersonal and anything in New York city, you don't think of, you know, trees outside and sidewalks. And,

you know, like I, it just, you, we all have from our own experience, whatever that experience might've been that we have these kinds of preconceived notions of, of what that is like. And so we've all been judged, but it's hard to kind of make that flip to see, we do it the same way. Especially, I feel like so many people that align themselves, you know, on, on the left-ish side or, you know, I guess on either side of the spectrum, this is what it means to be this. Like if you don't, if you're not up to date on, you know, the policy positions politically

of your side of the aisle, then you're not a true Democrat. You're not a true progressive. You're not a true Republican. You know, like there are all these different, different things of what it is, like takes all the individuality out of it. And that we're, you know, it's, it's at least in the LGBTQ community. You're not an advocate if you're not willing to work for pennies for a nonprofit. When you've got folks that can be allies in such a great way, and it reminded me when we were talking earlier, if you're going to have somebody that's an ally for any group,

it's a lot easier to stand up for what's right than to stand up for what's right than to stand up for what's good for me. You know, like if, if you're in an environment, a work environment, or you're in a social environment at school and people, you know, are using the word gay in a negative way, or they're, you know, they say faggot or, or, you know, there's not, and the workplace discrimination is existing. Like if you, as a straight guy stand up for me, because whatever act was happening is just wrong, that's going to get a lot farther. A, if I'm going to do it, I need to, I'm outing myself by doing it. And if I do do that, then it seems kind of self-serving

and kind of stump switching. Yeah, that's interesting. Where there's this kind of, we, you know, so I think that that empathy breathes more change because you're just standing up for what's fundamentally right, not what's going to serve my class or my unrecognized group. I mean, I think it carries more weight that way. Yeah. And I mean, you know, so my dad also. And when I think about things like this, I think about my daughter and I think about, you know, would she stand up? Yeah. You know, and, you know, would she stand up? Yeah. You know, and you know, middle school kid, there's a lot of pressure to conform.

Yeah. Like all you want to do when you're that age is you just, you want to be accepted by other people. You know? So if you see other stuff going on, it's like, do you, would you have the fortitude as a kid or even as an adult? But I think especially sort of like as a middle school, high school age kid, you know, to, to be the one who steps up and says, that's not right. What does it take to do that? Because in a sense, on the one hand, you're like, yeah, I feel good because I'm standing up, I'm doing the right thing. But on the other hand, there's that voice in the back of your head which says, well, but if this person's being attacked and I stand up for them, then maybe I get labeled as them too.

Absolutely. And I become part of like the attacked class as well. Yeah, it's a total social risk. And I think that the important thing and what people are trying to teach, I think, middle school students and then also, you know, beyond that is like, it doesn't, you know, you don't have to jump in, jump in front of a thrown fist to be an ally, to be an advocate, to be a supporter, to do the right thing. You know, like it's almost, I mean, there's, there's different ways to do it and there's different ways to ensure your own safety. And I think, you know, social survival is critical when you're 13 years old.

At the same time, you know, you know, a smile in the hallway to a kid that feels like nobody sees them is fundamental. So I think that there's, and then, you know, that interaction is critical, having a conversation with the teacher that something happened, like you don't have to be a martyr to make a difference. I think that you see when there's something that's unjust and you do, you know, what you can and no more than you can, whatever, however that is limited, but everything, you know, no less than you can do at the same time, I think makes a tremendous difference. And, you know, I would think that, you know, middle schoolers and high schoolers are kind of being taught this is to be a upstander, not a bystander

is kind of this concept of like, there's different ways to, to help and support and make sure the right thing happens. And it doesn't have to be in this very dramatic, you have to have the perfect words and make this, you know, very afterschool special stand. And that's right that there's other ways to do it too. We'll be right back. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman.

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available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. My guest today is Ash Beckham. We're talking about the closets that we hide in and how to step out of them. So you mentioned that at one point you had, I think, described it as your militant phase. Yeah.

What kind of pushed you to sort of engaging on that level? And then what pulled you out of that phase? Well, I think when you, you know, as any of us, you know, go through changes and I was in my, you know, or, you know, late teens, early twenties, when you kind of like figure out who you are and people do it at different, different times. And, and I did. And, and, and it was just very conscious kind of rebellion against social norms of femininity and that it was OK. You know, I mean, I feel like I grew up and, you know, my parents were and are progressive, but I grew up in a small suburb in Toledo, Ohio. And it was, you know, great school system, great everything.

But it was very, you know, very white. Midwest conservative. Yeah, exactly. And great. And, you know, we were lucky. My parents traveled around a lot, but there just wasn't kind of this, there wasn't a lot of difference that was happening.

And so there was just the way that it was. And I think going, you know, going to college, you kind of see things that are different and see things that you can relate to that feel more you. And you see other role models and other things that kind of happen and it just changes your perspective of who you are. And then once you kind of settle on what that is, um, I think when you feel like you've, uh, my experience would be that when you feel like you've kind of upheld these social constructs for so long and, and you

get to the point where you can kind of turn around and give it the bird and like do your own thing. I think, you know, and, and New York's a great place for that. You know, it was like the first time I saw a woman with a shaved head and people with tattoos and like all this great stuff, I loved it. And you like, couldn't get enough of that. So I feel like once you kind of stand on your own two feet and you're like, this is who I am. I don't really care if you like it. I'm done caring if people like it or not. And I think that that experience is similar in whatever way that it happens for anyone, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, whatever that might be. When you figure out who you are and you will stand by that no matter what, I think that that's incredibly empowering.

So then, for me, you get this kind of like, well matter what, I think that that's incredibly empowering. So then you kind of, for me, you know, you, you get this kind of like, well, what are you staring at? Like you, you're ready to kind of have some conflict about it. And that, you know, was a phase, I feel like that I went to that was, was part of, I think, feeling scared or fearful or, um, kind of, uh, paralyzed by whatever the social constructs were, that once I finally figured that out, I was ready to kind of challenge people and I guess stop feeling like if somebody was going to judge me, very obviously I was going to confront them about that.

Because my experience was that people, when challenged, really don't have much to say. So, you know, I did that for a while. And it was, you know, incredibly liberating and incredibly empowering for me for a really long time. But it gets, you get kind of mean and gritty. And I just, like, wasn't the person that I wanted to be because I felt like I was always looking for the next fight. Right. And that's what I was going to ask. It's like you get into a mode where you just, now instead of being ready to respond aggressively, now you're like, you start looking for it and then you start living to look for it. Yeah, exactly.

That's the whole thing. Which, you know, on one point you want strong advocates for something, but on the other hand, it's like, you think about the way you're just personally living your life and experiencing every single day and you wake up and it's like every day is a fight, you know, or like, it's like every day, you know, like the cortisol levels are ramped and you're like, you're just, it's just over time. It's like, that can be an easy way to live. Just not a personal survival.

Absolutely. I think so too. And then you, you know, you don't, I, I feel like you, you don't really give people a chance and that's the whole, you know, that's you, you're, you're kind of becoming your oppressor to some extent, you know what I mean? Like you, you, you fight so long to have people stop judging you and then you get in that kind of high amped mode of everyone's after me or everyone has an opinion of how short my hair is or what clothes I wear or what section of the department store I shop in. And you, and you

get that and you, you miss, and there aren't that many people that are that judgmental actually, like depending on your context and probably regionally, but there are a lot of people that just probably think you're great. You just got to give them a chance to actually have that real interaction. So you end up doing to other people is like, if you judge them first, then there's no way they're going to judge you. Like you've insulated yourself from, from that. And it just is a terrible way to go.

I mean, in the Ted talk, like I would go up to tables and just like, anytime I would see a kid between like two and 10, I was like ready to do to have this like gender battle. And it wouldn't happen all the time. But energetically, the way that I came off to the people who were just absolutely fine and had nothing to say about it was just not the person I wanted to be. I remember being in a restaurant with a friend of mine and somebody and I went to the bathroom.

We had dressed up for somebody's birthday. And so I was in like like, button-down shirt and pants. And went into the bathroom and came out, and there was this woman who was probably, like, 85. And she had said, you know, you're in the wrong bathroom. And I was like, no. You know, it was, like, jovial kind of in the beginning. And then kind of, like, and she, you know, pushed and whatever. And I, like, turned and kind of snapped at this woman

who was just lovely old grandmother. I mean, who obviously didn't see me as a woman, but it didn't matter. But what mattered not really was this woman's reaction, but to see the look on my friend's face, to see me turn like that and that she had never ever seen me talk to someone like that.

And in my head, like I had come up with these retorts that I kind of had you this like arsenal of comebacks because you're in this situation over and over again and you know I was kind of like you know in in this very weird way it's so funny to say it in retrospect but and I was like part of myself like okay in that very stressful situation I like the right words came out of my mouth and then and then looked at one of my best friends and it was just this like look of just, I don't know if it was like horror or disappointment or just like being caught off guard to be like, I've never heard you like, you're not my friend.

The way that I think you have never heard you talk to anybody like that. Like what, what, what made you, was it really that big of a deal? And, and I, then, then you kind of think of like how you exist in the world it becomes very less it's less about how um you know it isn't survival it's you know a nine or 85 year old woman at an italian restaurant like nothing really terrible was gonna happen unless she was like a badass ninja who was just like totally and then she's like hit me with their purse if i was in the bathroom or something but But I feel like you have this, you know, you have these very real interactions with those folks and, and that it, it was, you know, was that the hill to die on was like with the 85 year old woman. But also in my defense, like when that stuff happens over and over and over and over again, and you're, you know, you're minding your own business and you feel challenged in that way, it becomes frustrating. So then I guess I started to, my comebacks became less like biting and more vulnerable and kind of having a more realistic conversation

and relating to people. And I think that only comes, for me, it was after the phase of figuring out who I am and being okay with it and not really having to rub anybody's nose in it. Yeah. You know, and again, there's no right way to do it. Like, it's just, it's my way and kind of, I mean, I feel like that's a lot of times how people relate. It's like, this is how I get through life and here are the mistakes that I made. And this is when I was a total jerk.

And I tried to not. We've all been there and we'll be there again. Totally. And you're like, I go through my life now, like not trying to be a jerk, you know, like want to have those like little connections with people feel so much better than like, I said the right thing like that. You know what I mean? No, it's amazing.

It's like when, um, when I can go through, it's funny, I heard somebody the other day who's, um, a pretty strong activist and is not afraid to get into big fights with really big companies and people and she said something like um love your enemies it'll drive them nuts totally and i don't want to say it is because i don't know if i'm clear to actually like name that person but um like I mean, it's really interesting when you do that. But the flip side is it's just when you can go through life and you wake up in the morning and you're actually like, instead of actively looking for an opportunity to pounce, you actively look for an opportunity to elevate, to make people feel good, to just allow, say something, to engage in a way that allows you to feel good about what you're doing and the other person to feel okay about what they're doing.

You know, it's like all of a sudden, like you find yourself being pulled like through the day, just looking for these ways to light people up. Yeah, absolutely. But I think it really goes back to what you were saying, which is like, it's really hard to get to that place until you do the work to kind of get some baseline on who you are. Right. And like not who you're supposed to be or, you know, by any definition, whether it was like by my suburban upbringing education or, you know, the social constructs of where I grew up or, you know, this kind of like very, you know, the, the social constructs of where I grew up or, you know, this kind

of like very, you know, extreme feminist culture. Like I wasn't really either of those extremes, but there's something in the middle and throughout that whole thing, like I'm still me that, you know, cause kind of part of my explanation was kind of my parents and, you know, and what, what, how they explain to their parents or, you know, their friends and stuff like that. And I was like, I mean, it's still me. Like I would hope that they wouldn't think differently because of me, because I'm gay. I would hope that they would think differently of gay people

because now they know one and it's that kind of, like, I'm still the kid that played softball with their kids. I'm still the kid who, you know, whose parents let him use the convertible to drive to prom. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm still that same kid. It's just this one little thing that's different about me. So yeah, I think it's exactly what you're saying. Yeah. And I think we're also, I mean, we're also wired to belong that, you know, and in a way, that's great, because it gives us so much support and all sorts of other things that really nourish us. But at the same time, you know, if it keeps pulling us to want to, okay, I need to conform to belong, conform to belong, conform to belong.

And so if you're somebody who hasn't really started to get a beat on who, you know, what is the essential me? Like, what am I really all about? You know, that your desire to conform just keeps you from even having like wanting to do that work because you're like, well, what if it tells me that I don't fit in with this group that I've been, you know, like rocking for X number of days, months, years, or maybe my whole life. Now what?

You know, that's terrifying. So I think a lot of people don't go there just because, you that the moment they do, they'll be removed from that sense of belonging in the group that has sort of like given them a fair level of nourishment for a long period of time. It's like, and we have to belong. So then, you know, do you find the next group, which is close enough to who you really are to like, okay, I can get it there? Or do you just stick a flag in the ground and say, this is me, this is who I am, this is what I believe in. Anybody else who wants to fly a similar flag, come. Right. You know, and both can be pretty scary. Totally. No, I agree. And I think that a lot of the experience that people have in that context is if that group

that's nourished you and that you've been with for a really long time is, is genuine, like they actually want you to be you. And if they don't, then they're not really as supportive as you have, you know, they've been more a crutch than a legitimate support. I mean, I think that that's part of it. Then I think you also get into a dynamic where you've got, um, you know, you know, you put your flag down and you're like, yeah, if anybody wants to fly a similar flag, and then there's also kind of the relatability within another group of like, I just want you to fly your own flag. I don't care what it looks

like. I mean, you know, I don't, it doesn't really matter to me, but I'm, you know, staking claim to people who want to be authentic or genuine or whatever that might be. I mean, in any there's, you know, so many different ways, whether it's in places that are, I think, supposed to be incredibly accepting or, you know, put themselves out culturally to be incredibly accepting. So, you know, the LGBTQ community has forever, you know, had a challenge of accepting, fully accepting trans folks into the community. So, you know, I think that that's part of it. And even something like a yoga community, like if you're going to be a yogi,

you sign up to be these five things. And you're like, actually, that's not the case. Like you can still be part of this group and not fit those formats perfectly formats perfectly not totally it was interesting when i'm back in my yoga days when we were in the studio at some point we um we tested a few franchises actually so so uh we had a franchise that opened in um in salt lake city okay which was really interesting and this was i don't know 10 years ago or something like that so yoga wasn't like it is all over the place now.

And while that facility was being built, some of the local elders came and they're like, uh-uh. This is not happening here. This is derived from Hindu faith, like multi-gods and all of this stuff. And they're like, this is not acceptable. You know, you can't do that here. Wow. And so it was really interesting dealing with that, you know, because it's like, well, how do you approach this? Yeah.

You know, and you're talking about people who are very, like almost any form of orthodoxy in faith is dug in. You know, and that's part of the reason that you go towards the orthodox side of any faith is that there is a very clear-cut set of rules that you live and die by, and you like it that way because it removes uncertainty and ambiguity, and it gives you comfort. It gives you community, and it gives you comfort. You know what to do when you wake up.

You know who you're going to deal with. So somebody comes in and rocks it and there, there's no real process for handling, you know, like something that just doesn't fit that mold because it's either you're in or you're out, you know, like rather than like, well, you're not in, but you're cool. Right. You know, it's like where's the guideline for that conversation yes exactly oh that's brilliant i've never i never thought about that and i think i've just been to um

solid city a few times in different parts of utah and you know best way to find a coffee shop is to walk in a bar because like all the non-believers hang out together but you know so but there's this very much this like counterculture of you don't belong and you are defined by the fact that you don't belong but to get into a better space of like you don't belong but we can coexist i think it's just a fascinating concept did you end up opening the studio yeah yeah i mean we we had somebody who was who's born and bred out there um who basically came to new york trained with us for a couple of years. And then she went back and she ran it. And then she turned it into her own big flourishing studio. Wow.

And the early days were bumpy. But yeah. Does she know what like, or do you guys know what made the metal switch? I don't. I think part of it is that she was a local so that she came up, you know, in a culture of Salt Lake City. She understood the different dynamics that were at work and especially maybe she could probably navigate them a little bit more.

And she probably had a little more local cred because she wasn't like, you know, like New Yorkers coming in and trying to bring like the, that vibe plus, you know, the, you know, the whole Hindu background and the overlay with this. And, and, and I think also yoga took off so quickly that a lot of people started to realize that this is not a funky religion. Right. That actually, yes, way back when,

there are practices that derive from faith-based practices, but fundamentally it's a philosophy of living well, living connected, living compassionately, and taking care of your health along the way. And I think as that became just popularized really rapidly right around that same time, it kind of allowed for more forgiveness. But it's just fascinating how people respond in those dynamics and who digs in and who doesn't and how it doesn't bring it to a much bigger scale. You know, like what's happening with the current Pope. Right. You know, like what's happening with the current pope. Right.

You know, like you had the pope for generations before. And then all of a sudden, you know, like one person touches down and says, who am I to judge? Like one person. Right. You know, and all of a sudden the world is rocked, you know, whether you agree with him or not. It's like, you know, he can't change the gospel, but he's changing the way that people experience it, move to it, and move away from it. And saying, okay, this is my belief system, but why does that mean that I can't value human beings that in some way aren't valued maybe by this particular belief system? It's a tough argument. But to see somebody on that level stand up and say, look, who am I?

And the fundamental, I mean, I would, you know, on a bigger scale, but the same way that you can line up the tenets of yoga with the tenets of Mormonism. And you can line up the, you know, the tenets of what the Pope is saying. Like they are. There's a lot of overlap. Exactly. You gain a sense of believers in belonging by creating non-believers. Like you have, there has to be that dynamic. There isn't this, you know, especially in, in, you know, Orthodox religions, like you,

you have to have an us and them. It's, that's part of the tennis, the belief system. And when you have somebody that can come in and be like, actually, you know, it's, we are so much more similar. Like let's not draw that line in the sand so distinctly but let there be gray and and to you know say to to you know anyone let alone like a world of catholics there is no gray like there's no such thing as gray but that there's just a different way to look at it and it kind of depends on you know where you're coming from like where where your where your perspective is coming from and you can see it a million different ways and that there's

a different way to see it i think has been you know incredibly enlightening across the board and you know to think that that was a somebody that came from not kind of the you know western european realm of catholicism but you have a guy that's coming from south america i think right and to have that difference in perspective i think is just fascinating and then the ripple down of that and you're like you can't fire the pope so right you got it for a while you know yeah and just to see how that affects people, leaders within that same line of faith, and then believers, the people who are going to congregation on a local level all the time. So it starts this dynamic of challenge within the faith itself. It's like, who do we listen to?

Right, absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, I mean, but what I think is so important that arises out of it, no matter how you feel about, you know, like what he said recently, is that it brings a conversation more alive and it makes it, you know, so it's like, okay, let's just keep having this conversation, but maybe on an elevated level now. And so I think, you know, the net effect is all good, no matter what the outcome is, just continuing to have conversations around respect for humanity, especially in the context of, of faith is, is powerful. And that there are those different perspectives and, and, you know, that I feel like even in the hierarchical, you know, in a business model of like one, what one person at the top can do

with a trickle down of changing the perspective or societal responsibility or whatever that would be for an organization, I think applies. But he had the same, his belief system didn't just flip when he, you know, moved into the Vatican. Like that's been his belief system the entire way. So I would think that, you know, everybody, that trickle down has been going on for years. And so I think it's, you know, inspiring for people that are, that one person can make that kind of difference. It really, really, you know, and, and obviously a very unique situation there, but I think it could be modeled

in, in so many different organizational structures of some person sticking by what they believe in. And, and it isn't this, you know, kind of like finger wagging, we've been doing it wrong for all these years. It's just like, well, what about this way? You know, it's not negating those other things, but it's like, but what if we looked at, you know, from around the corner, what does it look like? You're looking at the same thing, but it really allows that kind of fresh perspective and the change that that can make in making space for everybody and making space for more people. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. making space for everybody and making space for more people. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. So since your TED Talk exploded and you became a global rock star,

globetrotting, speaking all over the place now, what were some of the big surprises that came out of that moment in time for you i mean i think the i was surprised at how many people resonated and how different those perspectives were and how open and vulnerable people were willing to be kind of after that with what their challenges were uh and that that, you know, and I think that the, you know, it kind of has that, you know, drop of water ripple effect of when you live more authentically or if you live out of your closet, then it's more, you inspire the people to do the same

and that none of us are here to kind of open anybody else's door. But, you know, when you kind of come out of yours, it has an effect on other people that you might not even know. So, I mean, I think that, you know, that was part of it. You know, it's interesting, too, is that you weren't, your conversation, you know, you weren't saying to people. I mean, at least it didn't, I didn't feel like you were saying like, you have to come out now, whatever it is that you're coming out of, like you have to come out now. You're just kind of like, this is a reality and you weren't selling.

It's going to be great. It's going to be easy. It's going to be a people accepted. You were selling hard is hard. Like this is going to be whatever it is.'s going to be hard right you know and right and like so in theory that should have sent people running for the hills right it seems like they did the exact opposite it just inspired mass action you know around these concepts and i think that you i think that even though it's hard it's better than what you're doing right now it's better than those like the cortisol filled days of being stressed out or not wanting to be found out or worried about having a conversation or,

or whatever that is, is that no matter how hard it is, it's better than not being yourself or not being authentic or, or kind of hiding who you really are. Cause that's never going to change. And it's just going to get progressively worse and harder and you know what kind of life do you want to live and and again i would never i mean there is a time and a place for for everybody but as much of the conversation is what are my closets you know what i mean i think that you know you just that even that beginning that kind of self-introspection is a movement and in the right direction. And it starts that very basic level

of relatability. And I think that that's, you know, that's something that just kind of, you know, it has very little to do, you know, it's, it's way beyond me now. I mean, that's just people being real with with each other or with people at work or kind of having those conversations. And I think we're living in a better place when, when people can be themselves, you know, and, and any part, you know, any part of that, that, that I am involved with, I, you know, I feel lucky to kind of start that conversation, but now it's kind of has its own head of steam. It does. So tell me about the head of steam.

I mean, where's, since, cause really, you know, we're having this conversation in, towards the end of May in 2014. So it's a good nine months or something afterwards. So what does, what does life look like for you these days and sort of how's it changed? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's good. It's super fun. I have a lot of colleges and now I'm starting to do. It's a lot of speaking. A lot of speaking mostly you know I haven't done

the you know I think blogging would probably something that would make sense having you know done media stuff a little bit I'm one of the I mean I guess you're one of the guys that invited me to come talk to you so I feel super lucky about that you know so it's traveling

around and going to a lot of places you know I kind of figured there'd be you figured I'd be getting calls from San Francisco and New York and these incredibly progressive places that kind of wanted that battle cry. And that's not where it's happening. It's High Point, North Carolina and Fort Wayne, Indiana. So what's that about? I think that that's where the battle is happening right now. For LGBTQ issues, it's so amazing. So I went to High Point, North Carolina, um, this great private school, super sweet kids. Um, and you, and so I just did a little bit of research and I was looking at North Carolina and over the past 10 years, the surveys that they were doing on, um, same sex marriage have pretty much stayed the same. They've gone from like, you know,

mid-30s to upper 30s to 40s, maybe, in 10 years. But if you look at same-sex partner benefits, adoption rights, you know, hospital visitation, things that are just like fundamental issues, that's gone from 30% to over 60%. So you're going, you know, you're talking about third to two-thirds. And so that's kind from 30% to over 60%. So you're going, you know, you're talking a third to two thirds. And so that's, that's kind of the basis. And so that, you know, there, Oklahoma places that I've gone, like,

that's the battleground now in this changing kind of hearts and minds of folks are the States where it's still up for grabs and you, you know, and it is dangerous to be out and you are fighting for these rights and you're making yourself more visible. you, you know, and it is dangerous to be out and you are fighting for these rights and you're making yourself more visible. And, you know, there's this kind of challenge from people like, well, why would you, you know, why would you stay in Fort Wayne and just move somewhere where it's okay, but it's your hometown. Like you want to, I mean, I applaud anybody that stays there and continues that battle and knows that this sea of change is coming to the, you know, places I've been speaking, mostly have been places that are, that are like that, where you have, you know, students,

you know, usually college students, but sometimes high school students where they just want to, they want to have the conversation and they want to know, um, you know, kind of what that journey has been like for me, but also bring in their, their peers and, and, and have the tools to continue to have those conversations, I feel like is a huge part of what I've been doing, which is really fun. And then, you know, as the Employment Non-Discrimination Act is, you know, getting steam again, I feel like there are more corporations and businesses that are seeing that as diversity as part of their social responsibility. So I've gotten some inquiries around that to just kind of go in and be like,

okay, let's, let's have a conversation. Let's like look at what we're doing. And, and just because you're going to bring attention to the issue doesn't mean you have a problem, but you also need to, you know, supports people that are, that are there. So that's, that's been the kind of the arc of what's been going on, which has been exciting. Yeah. I mean, interesting way. It makes sense, right? That San Francisco and it's kind of like arc of what's been going on which has been exciting yeah i mean interesting way it makes sense right that um san francisco news it's kind of like we get it yeah totally

you're so 2000 and late yeah i've been and living in new york you know like being a lifetime or um it's just i mean nobody in my community like it's just it's not an issue that's ever on the table it's not something that like any of the kids that are being raised in our families it's not an issue that's ever on the table. It's not something that like any of the kids that are being raised in our families, it's not even something that's in our vocabulary because just whatever, right. You know? Um, but yeah, so we kind of forget that I think outside of,

uh, those major cities that, you know, like people are not necessarily all treated properly, but has, has the effect of having that TED talk just kind of explode. Do you feel like that's sort of given larger organizations like corporations, potentially, it's like, oh, well, you know, she's legitimized. Now we can bring her in because now

like, you know, there's, you know, we've got more authority to sort of like stand behind and bring somebody to talk about this into the organization or have you not really? No, no, I think that that's the case. I mean, I think that it has this, you know, it's social media, obviously. I mean, I was really lucky when it happened and kind of the backing that social media had that gave it kind of the exposure that it had. But it has, you know, it almost, the TED Talk almost gives it like mainstream credibility. Right, yeah, exactly. That it isn't that controversial. Like it isn't going to be that bad.

Should I go off and say something totally crazy? So, yeah, I think that that's the part of it kind of being okay. And I know that there, you know, people that have been doing the work longer than I have and are probably significantly better at the educational component of it. I mean, you know, that's the thing I kind of started talking. I'm like, I'm not an expert. Like I'm not your women in gender studies. Right. You're not the process person. I'm just telling you what happened to me and telling stories. Like I would tell my buddies at a bar, you know, like that's kind of that telling stories like I would tell my buddies at a bar.

You know, like that's kind of that experience. But I feel like that there's a part of it that maybe makes it less scary. Like if you're going to present it to the board, like everybody's heard of a TED Talk. So it's like, oh, well, all right. Fine. Sign the paper. If you think she's going to bring her in. I feel like that's part of it is that in certain communities you're actually talking about LGBTQ issues, but that's not what it was about to me.

Right, totally. overlay for like that the stories are based around that but fundamentally what i'm talking about is exactly is the the um the need to have more truthful and open conversations and that is a challenge that every organization on the planet has absolutely and that you're yeah and i think that you uh embrace that diversity and that difference of opinion and that you you know that's i can't speak to other you know know, marginalized or underrepresented groups. I can just speak to mine. But again, for, you know, it's so funny to, to think now of how touchy feely and bolder it feels, but it just goes back to what you're feeling and you can relate to what this feels like. You know, you, I've, you know, there's places that I'm scared to go into, and everybody has places they're scared to go. It could be a part of town.

It could be an office. It could be a meeting. It could be a boardroom. It could be a bedroom. It could be anywhere. Like, there's places you are just scared to go because you can't be yourself. You know what that feels like. Whether it's me in a bathroom in Newark or, you know,

whatever your version of that story is, like, you can relate to it. So, I mean, for you, what is it? What is it worth you know i feel like i you know there's still like i still get my shoulders go up around my ears every time i walk in a public bathroom like it just you know it just it feels like that but i my response and energetically i just go to it very differently than i did when i was 25 like you know you'd like it's incredibly how disarming smiling at somebody is, you know, if they think you don't belong or they do whatever, like, you know, making eye contact as opposed to like, just kind of putting your head down and going in and there, you know, the talks are still, till, you know, are still scary for me. And I think they always will be.

And I think that that's part of it. Cause you go into a room of people and, you know, you just, I think we all do that like you just question yourself of like who am i to say any of this you know and are these stories still funny and are they still relatable and are they relatable in north carolina where i've never been in my life i don't know i hope so they seem real you know that that you know and what we said earlier like that being accepted or being understood or or or, you know, feeling like you belong, I think is, you know, something that we all kind of worry about, but I've been, I've been lucky. I've been in really great places and, and been with people.

And I think that part of why it's good is, or why it works maybe is that I, people, um, they're just my stories. Like, you know, that's not really, I don't get too nervous that I have to like remember the script. Yeah, because you've lived it. Exactly. You're like, I could tell that a thousand times over, you know, and bringing it together and making it relatable to certain contexts

that I think sometimes is a little bit challenging. But I don't know when you people, when you kind of go in and I go in this kind of vulnerable way, I've been, you know, lucky enough that their response has been incredible. Yeah. Well, it's kind of like in a very, very past life I was a lawyer. And they teach you in law school that against claims of libel and slander, truth is an absolute defense.

Yes. And it's kind of like this. And it's funny. I look at that when I speak also. And we both speak about that. Yeah, sure. And it's kind of like I get up on stage. And I got this from Simon Sinek, actually, before I actually go up now like i literally say to myself i'm here to serve

and then you're like and i remind myself like they want me to succeed and i'm not bullshitting anybody right yeah it's like when you go up you're like look here's my truth like this is these are my stories i've actually lived them. You may accept them. You may not. You may accept my ideas. You may not. And that's cool. But this is my truth.

Right. And sometimes they accept them. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they love you. And sometimes they hate you. Right. But at least when they don't accept them, when you can fall back on the fact, this is fundamental.

I was real. I was was honest i was truthful and i and i showed up with the intention to give um you can walk away still feeling like yeah i'm okay i'm good you know it's not always super easy but it makes you it creates that you know place to touch stone again say yeah like i'm i'm doing what i need to do for the right reasons right Right. And I think in that context, you know, hopefully fall back on the concept of like, if you touch one, if you're there to give and one person in the room got it, you know, and turned around and walked out before everybody started, you know, throwing rotten tomatoes at you, then you're, then you, you know, you kind of did your work, like you hope it's accolades and, you know, ticker tape. But if it's, if it's just one person and you can kind of feel that connection

or one thing resonated or they think about it one point later, then you've done what you came there to do. Yeah, no, totally agree. So the name of this is Good Life Project. So I always wrap with one question, which is the same question for everybody, which is to you, when I offer that term up, to live a good life, what does it mean to you? I think, you know, for me, it's this new version of what you're saying, like giving it back and just being a better person at the end of the day than I was at the beginning of the day and kind of going, going through life. Um, you know, I, I think changing minds with a smile and a conversation as opposed to like a soapbox and a megaphone, you know, like, I think that that's the direction that this is

taken now. And it, um, it was just an incredible softening that happened to me and by kids that were not my kids. But, you know, you just kind of like bend your knees and, you know, kind of like ease into like you can't, you can't, you can't. The good, you know, good life to me is a happy life and a connected life and an empathetic life and a a life filled with love and not that there isn't challenges or the times to stand up and fight, for sure. But that's just a lot. I want to be around for a while, and that seems like an easier way to kind of stick around and be happy and be who I feel like I actually am in the world.

Yeah, awesome. Thank you. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so much. Me too, Jonathan. Thanks. Thanks so much for listening to Good Life Project. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you'd share a quick review over on iTunes. It helps us get the word out to more people and make a bigger difference in the world. And Hey, while you're there, please be sure to subscribe. So you never miss an episode. And if you'd love to know more about how we can help you live your best life, check out our upcoming events and courses

at goodlifeproject.com. I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off with gratitude. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it.

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