Good Life Project - Cultivating Your Authentic Voice with Todd Henry

Episode Date: October 1, 2015

So often, the way the world perceives us conflicts with the what we "think" we're saying and the way we want to be seen and heard.Truth is, so much of what we communicate all day long has nothing to do with the words that come out of our mouths.In fact, often the things we do, the way we move, the things we telegraph contradict the words we offer, leaving people with a sense of cognitive dissonance.Todd Henry is a master of cultivating the "voice beyond your spoken voice" or what he'd call your "authentic voice."A former touring musician and now a bestselling author and international speaker on creativity, intentional living and presence, he's spent years on everything from country music stages to stadiums, learning how to create magic night after night. What he'd eventually come to realize was, it wasn't the music that pulled him from ahead, it was the opportunity to teach, to see lightbulbs go on, to create magic and leave people changed.To do this on the level that made a real impact, though, he'd first need to cultivate his authentic voice and presence on a whole different level. Todd writes about this in his latest book, Louder Than Words.In this week's wide-ranging conversation, we explore the lessons he learned from the music industry, from playing one night before 50,000 people, then the next at a bowling alley and even the occasional small joint where his band played behind chicken wire to keep them safe.We also talk about why he walked away from that life, how he embraced a new season and chose to contribute in a way that was better aligned with the future he sought to build. We explore what fame is really about, responsibility and freedom. We dive into the invitation to be original and what stops so many from cultivating their true voices, from no longer being "cover bands." And so much more. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X.

Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th.

Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot if we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight risk. Your voice is an expression through a medium to achieve an impact.

And your voice is what your work communicates to other people, which often is very different from the words that you use. So what's interesting is that so much of the way that we communicate with the world and the way the world perceives us isn't about what we say. You know, it's been estimated, I've seen stats anywhere from 80 to 95% or something like that of our communication is actually nonverbal. There's so many things that we do in our lives that actually speak louder than words. There's a tone, there's a voice, there's a presence, there are ideas. And that's what we're exploring in this week's conversation with my guest, Todd Henry, who's actually the author of a really interesting new book called Louder Than Words. We also take a big step back. Todd,

apparently, has a long time history as a nationally touring musician. And what I found really fascinating was it wasn't really a big, obvious part of his story. And I got really curious about why that was the truth. So we dive into that and turn it into a really wide-ranging and I think interesting conversation about how we live in the world, what's meaningful to us, how we express ourselves, and how people experience us. I'm really excited to share this conversation with Todd Henry. I'm Jonathan Fields. This is Good Life Project.

So we've been friends for a number of years now. It's kind of fun because we play around. We have a lot of shared interests. There's one thing. When you go on your website, dude, you have a very sort of like typical bio for a fancy schmancy author, speaker, business, creative innovation guy.

But I know something about you that does not appear. Maybe I know a few stories. This is not going to get really like bad, but there's something that's not on your bio and I'm really curious why it's not there. And that's Todd the musician. Yeah. Do you really need to ask why that's not there? Yeah. I you really need to ask why that's not there? Yeah. I'm really curious. Yeah. So I kicked around in my 20s. I now sort of jokingly refer to them as my misguided 20s,

but they're not really misguided, as you know. Everybody has a journey and it was part of my journey of getting where I am. But yeah, I spent several years as a, not just any kind of musician, Jonathan, as a touring country musician singing country music. And not just any kind of country music, by the way, but like West Coast, Bakersfield, Buck Owens, Dwight Yoakam, like honky tonk, rockabilly country. And so I spent many years kind of doing that in my 20s. I actually partially paid my way through college doing that. And I thought, you know, I'm just going to make. Um, in my twenties, I actually partially paid my way through college doing that. And I thought, you know, I'm just going to make a run at this and see what happens. And I had a lot of fun and got to play a lot of fun shows and big shows. And then as these stories often go, um, you know, I met a girl and, uh, she sort of convinced me that,

uh, music business, gainful employment and marrying an amazing woman. It's like, you can have two of the three, but you can't have all three at the same time. So I chose gainful employment, marrying an amazing woman. And obviously, I've never had a regret about that. But yeah, but it's funny because I look back now at those days and I realize so many of my core fundamental skills as it relates to innovation and creative thinking and all of that and thinking on my feet and some of the things I have to do now on a regular basis, really were kind of forged in the fire of being on stage as the opening act for some like national act. Nobody wants to see you. Nobody cares about the opening act. Nobody paid money to come see you. Right. And you have to kind of convince people why they should listen to you.

And so it's funny because I feel like in many ways now as someone who is largely in the world of trying to communicate ideas and patterns and help people do better work, I feel like I'm sort of in the same place of trying to influence people to pay attention to what I'm doing. Only now they're not hurling long neck beer bottles at me. So it's, you know, it's usually safer. It's funny. Like, as you're saying, that's the classic scene from Blue's Brothers, like pops into my life where they show up you know like at the bar and he's like well what kind of music do you play here it's like we play both kinds country and western i'll give you a little secret i actually a little thing i don't think i've ever revealed to anybody i actually have played behind chicken wire before. True story. Oh my God. So that was

actually like a real thing. Oh, that's a thing. Oh, absolutely. No question. Especially, you know, like once upon a time, I mean, you go to some of these like, you know, honky tongs out in the country. I mean, it got kind of crazy, you know, and, and there'd be, you know, chicken wire in front of the stage to kind of protect people from barroom brawls and all that stuff. So, and I have played, uh, one or two shows. I mean, it's funny because, um, you know, I play at this, this, uh, event called Jamboree in the Hills, um, which is in St. Clairsville, Ohio and play, you know, it was in front of like, I don't know, they said there were like 50,000 people there that day. Right. So it's crazy. Like people, as far as you can see, it was insane. And the next night, uh, my band was playing at a bowling alley in Southgate,

Kentucky. And I just remember the, the sort of the disparity or the sort of, you know, just the, the difference between playing in front of that many people. And then the next night playing at a bowling alley where people were saying, turn it down, shut up, you know? Um, it's, it's like, do you know where we were last night? Do you know what we were doing last night? But it's just, that's the way it is kind of. And I'm sure that, I mean, you've probably experienced that too, where it's like, you know, you're speaking to your tribe, you're speaking to your people, and it's just such an amazing reception. And you're in front of a crowd that really is embracing what you're doing. And then, you know, the next night you're speaking to a crowd that isn't familiar with you, or you sort of have to win that credibility. And it just kind of reminds you that every new audience has to be

won over. Every new audience, you know, attention for your work is not a birthright, right? So with every new audience, you have to find a way of helping them understand how they fit. See their face on the map of whatever it is you're talking about or on the flag, I should say. So anyway, thanks for bringing that up. But okay, here's the thing. This was not planned to embarrass you or anything like that it's just it seems like it was such an important part of who you are and it's like such an important part of it's almost like your origin story um it was funny because like i jumped on like really quickly it's like i know you and so but i was just curious you know like what's

what does your website say and um and i was it actually really raised an eyebrow. I'm like, huh. There was a conscious decision not to have this on here. But what I see you doing, especially with your latest book, Louder Than Words, is to a certain extent, you're coming full circle back to a lot of that, where it's sort of like the presence and the voice and the standing on

stage and all this, a lot of that comes from those early days with you. Yeah. I mean, there's no question that, you know, so much of my understanding of the creative arts and the ability to forge, you know, a unique and compelling voice comes out of my experience with the, you know, I guess you could call it the pop music industry or just being around musicians and just seeing people who over the course of time in the fires of, you know, some of these small smoky clubs and, uh, you're playing in front of apathetic crowds and all of this. I mean, they had really forged, um, uh, a real resilience, um, a uniqueness. Uh, you know, you can tell it tell, I don't know if you ever watch any of these shows on TV, some of the talent competitions on TV, but it's kind of funny because you can,

as an ex-performing musician, I can see in the eyes of the people who walk on stage, whether they've been forged in the fire or whether they've been practicing with a hairbrush in front of the mirror in their bedroom. Right. And you can just tell there's a gravitas, there's a weight to or a depth to their art. And you can just tell that what they make look really easy is not easy at all. It takes a lot of work to make something look easy. And there's a weight or a gravitas to their art, to what they're making. And I mean, you're someone, Jonathan, that, I mean, your work really impacts me in that way. You make things look easy from the outside and people could come

in and sort of emulate what you're doing and try to copy what you're doing. But it's really hard to do because you're coming from a place of depth and experience and wisdom. And that's a really hard place to get to. And like you said, you know, those experiences in my twenties, I think in many ways were part of that journey for me and forging, you know, that understanding. That's why, you know, since the beginning of what I've been doing, I've had a phrase cover bands don't change the world, right? That's kind of been a catchphrase because I see so many people out there who are just trying to knock off other people, just trying to copy what they're doing. But the reality, and you know, frankly, let's be honest. I mean, they can, they can garner

some short-term attention doing that and maybe have a little bit of temporary success, but it's temporary success because they're not creating unique impact. They're not doing work that is going to move the needle, uh, in the long long run because it's not deep. It doesn't resonate. It's just a, you know, sort of a copy of a copy of someone else. And so I think if we really want to move the needle and we wanted to create impact, I think we have to really be willing to walk through the fire, you know, and be willing to sort of hone and sharpen our craft over the course of time. There is no easy formula there's no quick solution to that yeah and you know i totally agree i mean a couple things that raises for me um but one is you talked

about if if you're really in this game for impact if you really want to make a difference and you know my i'm curious what you think about this because one of one of the growing concerns in me and what I see is that a lot of people aren't. That we have become a society obsessed with fame for fame's sake. Not fame or not becoming known because it allows us to go out there and have a bigger impact and do more good work. But fame just because it allows us to be famous. And that concerns me. It concerns me too. And we actually talk with our kids about this a lot.

We have three children. They're 12, 10, and 8. And I pretty frequently, if we're talking about something or the dinner table, some conversation comes up about somebody in pop culture or something like that, we'll pretty frequently pause and we'll say, let's talk about what that person has done. Let's talk about what they've built, you know? Um, because there was a time when celebrity followed contribution, you know, you did something and then you became known for the thing that you, that you did and you became celebrated. That's the root of the word celebrity. You became celebrated for something you did.

At some point, the switch flipped. And now it's possible to be a celebrity without really having ever done anything other than maybe being known for being a celebrity. And I do think I agree with you. I think it's a dangerous dynamic because I think that what we celebrate is what we emulate as a culture. And I think for our children specifically, I want to make sure that they understand that the primary thing that they need to be obsessed with in life is helping people, serving people, creating value, being resourceful, solving problems. And they may be recognized for that. They may become celebrated for that. That's fine. Or they may not. But the path to a life that is gratifying and fulfilling and ultimately a life that is reflective of who you are, not what everybody

else expects of you, is the path of committing to creating value, committing to a delta, a change that transcends your temporary comfort, transcends your recognition for whatever it is you're doing and instead is about other people. It's about serving other people. Viktor Frankl talked about the subject of living a gratifying life, obviously, and wrote extensively about that. And Man's Search for Meaning is a phenomenal, phenomenal book. But one of the quotes that I've often – that has resonated deeply with me is the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast should be accompanied by the Statue of Responsibility on the West Coast, right? This idea that when you have freedom and you have liberty and you have the ability to choose how you're going to engage, you have an accompanying

responsibility to spend that freedom, not just on yourself, but to spend it on behalf of other people. And the people who do that are the ones who live the most gratifying life. Freedom spent solely on yourself is freedom wasted. And so that's what we're trying to build into our kids is this idea that, listen, your job here on earth is to follow your intuition, to serve other people, to add value, to contribute, to be resourceful, to be a problem solver. And in the midst of that, you might get recognized and you might not, but that's not up to you. You know, your legacy is a story that other people tell about your contribution and it's something that happens after the fact. So don't worry about your legacy. Worry about being you, worry about focusing on

solving problems and adding value and then let other people worry about the recognition and the celebrity. Yeah, no, I think it's so, it's such an interesting conversation. You know, you look at it from the lens of being a professional, of being an entrepreneur, being a, you know, a speaker or performer. And then, yeah, and then you look at the lens of being a parent also. And it's really, it takes on a different level of meaning that, you know, it's sort of like, and I agree, like Viktor Frankl's book was just, you know, it's something that I return to.

And, you know, as, especially when I think about, because I placed Fame for Fame's Sake more on the sort of happiness through hedonism side of the spectrum rather than what he would have said is fundamentally, it's the thing that gives you the richest life is meaning. I mean, that's the name of the book. And that comes from something bigger. It comes from something more transcendent, something that expands outside the boundaries of, you know, a light shining on you purely for the purpose of a light shining on you. Well, it's unfortunate. I do think that many people become a reflection of the priorities of everyone around them. You know, I think that... So what's that about in your mind?

I think at the root of it, I think it's people... Sometimes I think it's people not having the courage to look inward. I think that sometimes we're afraid to look inward because we're afraid of what we'll find. I don't want to get too esoteric and sort of self-helpish here, but I think because I spend most of my time very practically locking arms with people in the marketplace. It's kind of what I do, right? But I find this all the time with

people who are going to work, having to figure it out every day. And we're afraid to look inside because we're afraid of the implications of what we might find. We're afraid we're going to be disappointed with what we find. We're afraid it's not going to be enough. Or we're afraid if we have an idea, we have something inside of us that it's going to create an accountability to act on that. And so instead we just chase, uh, recognition from others. We chase, um, you know, whatever gives us that ping of a temporary sense that we're okay, we're on course. And we navigate by the opinions of others rather than being willing to step back and look at the patterns in our own life and say, wait a minute, I have something unique to offer. There's something inside of me that's kindling, and I'm either going to continue to put kindling on that fire and let it continue to grow,

or I'm going to snuff it out. And unfortunately, too many of us snuff out the fires. We allow ourselves to get rounded off by culture instead of having the courage to step out and to do something bold and brave and to follow our intuition. And by the way, that very often is accompanied by failure. And I think we would rather have a little bit of something than a whole lot of nothing in the end. But again, if you look at the lives of great contributors, that is not their path. It's not the path of a little bit of something. I had a great conversation in writing, um, louder than words with a DJ named Z trip. Um, who's actually become a friend. His name is Zach Shaka. He's a brilliant guy. Um, but we were talking at a concert. He's the touring DJ with LL Cool J, which is, it's kind of fun. So we were talking kind of backstage at an LL Cool J

show. We were kind of just chatting about how he found his voice as an artist. And he said, you know, it's funny when I started DJing, there are all these people climbing a tree trunk, you know, and they're all kind of climbing the trunk and everybody's kind of on the trunk together. And we're all sort of, you know, and the trunk is our influences. So we're all sort of staying close to our influences and emulating our influences. He said, but then as we got higher and higher on the trunk, like some guys started branching out and stepping out onto branches. And he said, I was one of those people. I just stepped out onto a branch and I started kind of differentiating myself from my influences. And I started taking steps away from the tree trunk. And he said,

I looked back and everybody else is still kind of hugging the trunk. And a couple people followed me out. But he said, pretty soon I was so far out on the branch that nobody wanted to follow me anymore because it's scary because you're pretty far out on the branch, you know? And he said, that was how I found my voice is I was willing to make a bold decision with my work. And the word decide comes from the word that means to cut off, right? So I'm willing to make a bold decision with my work and step out. Even if people don't understand it, I'm willing to do that. And I thought it was being really clever. Jonathan, I was like, what happens when the branch breaks? You know, it's ha ha ha, that's funny. But what happens when you fall to the ground? He said, well, the beautiful thing is that when you fall to the ground, that's when

the new trunk is formed and then everybody's emulating you, right? Then you're the influence, you're the trendsetter. And I think that's what, that's the mindset that we have to embrace if we want to continue growing, if we want to be in a place where we're developing our unique voice. We have to be willing to make bold decisions, to deviate from the norm, to step out on the branch, to take those risks. Now, not stupid risks, right? But calculated risks, daily calculated risks to differentiate ourselves, to push out onto the branch if we want to continue to grow creatively. And too many people figure out something that works. They start climbing the tree trunk, figure out something that works and they just stay

close to the trunk because, well, it's close enough. You know, it works. It works for now. But again, I don't think that's the path to a gratifying life, nor is it really the path of contribution. Yeah. And I think it's, you know, fundamentally in the path of contribution yeah and i think it's you know fundamentally in the end of the day it's because um we're so led by fear of being judged

for having stepped out onto the limb right and then having it break and then having everybody else say see you were an idiot like we all told you it was gonna break and you had to go and leave the trunk you had to go and step on the branch, you know, but what if it, you know, what if it breaks and then it forms a seed for like an astonishing new tree or what if it doesn't break, you know, and then you end up growing, you know, something just incredible that in it, it's, everyone looks at the what if I fail question and very few people look at the what if I do nothing and then what if I succeed question, you know,

and then actually do that assessment in combination rather than just what if I fail and then hit, spin, and obsess over that scenario. If you look at people who are later in life and the research is in on this. There have been multiple books written about this. Yeah. And I've read a couple of them. If you look at people later in life and you ask them, what are your deepest regrets? Very few of them say, boy, you know, I really regret taking that chance. I really regret having tried that thing that I thought would work because it completely ruined my life. Even if the thing failed, very few people say that.

The thing they say is, I wish I'd had the courage to try something. I wish I'd had the courage to do the thing I thought I should do, but I didn't. I listened to everybody else around me. Those are the things that we regret because the thing is we never know. And I think that the pain of not knowing, Jonathan, is often worse than the pain of failure. But that's not what we think in the moment. And I think that the pain of not knowing, Jonathan, is often worse than the pain of failure. But that's not what we think in the moment. And we think that failure is the worst possible outcome. Yeah, it's the worst thing that could happen to us. But in reality, I mean, as long as we're being smart about it, and again, there are also people out there who will say,

oh, go out on the branch, go as far as you want. Sure, go jump off a cliff, right? There are people who will tell you that because they don't have the guts themselves to do it. And they just kind of have a morbid curiosity about what's going to happen to you. So you need to have people around you who will speak truth to you because your idea might be a really bad idea. And you need people who will tell you that if it's a bad idea. But if it's a good idea, if you have people around you, you trust saying, yeah, I think this is a good idea. It's a little risky, but it's a good idea. You have to have the courage to do that because the price of regret is incalculable. And in the end, I think the things that we're going to remember, the things that are going to be pain points for us in life are not the places

we tried and failed, but the places where we never even tried because we were afraid of the implications. Okay. So let me, I'm going to come full circle on this and I completely agree by the way. And, and I had the chance to sit down come full circle on this. And I completely agree, by the way. And I had the chance to sit down with Bronnie Ware, who wrote that fabulous post, turned it into a book, Top Five Regrets of the Dying.

Number one was, you know, something along the lines of, I regret that I never, you know, like lived the life that, you know, basically was mine to live. Yeah. You came up and spent a big chunk of your life as a musician. So I'm assuming that there was some deep passion,

deep interest. Like there was something you really connected to being a musician around, yet you hit a point in your life where you walked away from that. Right. Do you have any regrets around that? So I have, it's a very complicated answer. Um, so I, I try to live my life by the philosophy of, I always want to be moving toward something, not running away from something. Um, I don't want to move away from my pain points. I want to move

toward opportunity. Um, sometimes in life you have two really great things in front of you. And, you know, I think that at that point in my life, I think I had made a really good run at trying to make this music thing work. And it just, you know, was not working. It was not going to happen. And I think, you know, at that point in your life, sometimes you need people who are willing to speak truth to you. And, you know, when I, when I met my wife, we, uh, we had a really candid conversation about this. You know, he said, listen, you've been doing this now for several years. You've been trying to make this go. Um, how about this? Let's set a timeframe. If we don't see significant momentum at the end of that timeframe, then we're going to make some different decisions with where we go because we have goals together.

Now, you know, we're no longer just, it's no longer, you know, kind of Todd on his own, doing his own thing right now it's us together trying to figure this out. And, um, so at that point I, I needed, and I'm so thankful for my, for my wife, um, because I needed at that point, I needed, and I'm so thankful for my wife, because I needed at that point in my life someone to say, listen, man, you're a talented guy. You know, different time, different place, different circumstances, different set of breaks, different whatever. This could have worked for you. But if you keep doing this, it might work out. It's possible you know i have friends i was writing with then who are now really successful right as songwriters are really successful as artists

it might work out but you might also be the you know 40 year old barista still trying to trying to make it and there's more for you than that in in this life and um you know, that's, I don't think that's the best of who you are. And so, do I have regrets? No, I don't have regrets for having quit. Was it hard? Hell yeah, it was hard. It was really hard. And I had to mourn that, you know, we have to mourn the loss of our dreams. And I think that's something that we often don't talk about either, that when something fails in our life, we, you know, like when somebody dies in our life, you know, we, we recognize, okay, I need to mourn that person. I need to mourn the life of the person.

We don't mourn sometimes the death of our dreams, but I think that's also very important. You know, when we spent years pursuing something that doesn't work out, we need to allow each other the space to say, Hey, I need some time to process this because this was a core part of how I saw myself in this world. And so I did, I went through a period of mourning, I think at the end of that. And, and as things progressed, I mean, it, frankly, like I said, it was the best thing that ever happened to me, but that doesn't mean it was easy. You know, sometimes the things that are best for us are the hardest things to walk through. Um, but yeah, so, so regrets, no painful. Absolutely. Um, now if you'd asked me that same question when I was 25, I might've said, yeah, I do,

I do have regrets, but now looking back on it, I have no regrets. It was absolutely the right decision to make. Yeah. Do you still play? I do. I do. You know, it's, what's fun is that my oldest son is now, uh, he's picked up the guitar and it just it's funny because he has a love for music that i never had you know even um when i was i was playing and performing like i never had a deep deep love of music um where it was like that's all i thought about yeah it really is you know um but it wasn't like i would just man i would just be playing all the time i had friends who did people in my band who did and all this, you know, but it just was never me. But man, he's just got a deep love of music. And so I'm trying really hard, you know, when you have a fire that's kindling, if you pile too much

wood on it, you know, the fire is going to go out, you're going to kill, you're going to smother the fire. And so I'm just trying to put a little bit of kindling on at a time on the fire and just a little bit and just kind of resource that and see if the fire grows. Because the last thing I want to do is come in and say, well, let's get lessons. Let's buy an amp. Let's buy a guitar. I want to just equip him and kind of let him do and talented and then you pile a bunch of firewood on them and it smothers their passion, their flame. One of the jobs you have to embrace when you're leading someone, whether it's your kid or somebody in an organization, is you have to kindle the fire inside of them, which sometimes means being you know, being careful, being cautious and taking

your time with it. And over time, that little fire becomes a huge roaring blaze if you're strategic about it. So, yeah, no, I mean, it's interesting because I had, I've known a couple of people who, and it's interesting that you say that too, because I, I, I never did it professionally, but when I was a kid, I was in a band and all this stuff and i'd love you know playing music but i was not the kid where you know i had friends where you know they wouldn't come to school one day because you know they were just in all they wanted to do was you know nail the guitar lead from like you know rushes you know it with some song and like they would literally, you know, they would wake up the moment they woke up, you know, their guitar was in bed with them and they would just work until there's,

you know, their fingers bled every single day until they couldn't keep their eyes open at one in the morning because it just, they lived and they breathed it. And, you know, I do think there's something to sort of providing the space for the kindling. And, but I think it's also really telling that, you know, when you reach the point in your life where you're like, okay, you know, am I going to go for the dream and, you know, make this everything or am I going to sort of set aside and say, you know, like, there's an

there's another dream that's that's emerging important and more realistic and more attainable for me, and I'm okay setting it aside. I think the ability to actually set it aside comes from the fact that somewhere deep down, you knew. That voice said, I'm actually not the person where I'm so – this is such a part of my DNA that it's not the thing I can't not do. As much as I love doing it and I have fun doing it, it would be so cool if I could make it work. It's not the thing I can't not do. Whereas there are people where I think they're just wired that way. If you basically said, okay, I'm going to now build my career

doing something very different, but you still play two to three hours a day just because you love doing it. But my guess is you probably didn't do that, right? No, no, I didn't at all. Yeah, no, not at all. And it's like, that's telling to me. It definitely is telling. Yeah, no question. It was time to move on. You know, there's no question of time. But, but I think also, you know, I sort of had this sunk cost fallacy thing going on, too. I put so many years into it. And I've gotten so close so many times, you know, I sort of had this sunk cost fallacy thing going on too. I put so many years into it and I'd gotten so close so many times, you know, with labels and with management and with all this like, you know, and it felt like things were going to break imminently multiple times and they didn't. And so I think maybe my passion had waned long before I actually made a decision to move on.

Which, you know, like you said, I think that's kind of telling to me. You know, what's really funny, Jonathan, is I spend my time now, we actually spend some time at an event in Toronto, you know, where we were both speaking. But I spend, you know, I get to speak to, you know, 40 plus groups of people a year, you know, and often it's groups of, you know, a couple thousand people or more. And it's so funny because it's almost the same thing that I was doing when I was playing music, except now I'm on stage and I'm influencing people. I'm introducing ideas. I'm helping them be better at what they do. I'm inspiring them and motivating them to act on, you know, principles to unleash their creativity and to engage differently with their work. And it's, it's so funny because I still travel from city to city and I'm on stage in front of groups of people, but I feel like the work I'm doing now

is more than just putting a smile on their face for an hour, but instead I'm actually helping them with something that, that they're in desperate need of help with. And so, um, you know, the kind of the lifestyle they have, I've often thought, um, you know, the kind of the lifestyle they have, I've often thought, man, this is like deja vu. It feels very, very similar, but it's wrapped around this, you know, sort of contribution that I feel wired to make rather than just being kind of like an entertainer. Um, so it's, it's kind of a beautiful thing and it is kind of a full circle thing for me in many ways. Yeah i mean maybe the real like the real deeper inner jones in those early days wasn't even so much the music it was it was the light that went on inside of you when you stood in front of like like a

large number of people and just had the opportunity to you know like to create some experience in them that lifted them up that is totally what it is. Yeah. And now you're doing it differently. There's no question about it that that was what, that's why I didn't pick up a guitar or sit down at a piano. I mean, it's funny.

We were at a friend's house probably, it was probably about four or five years ago. So my kids were a little older. I mean, they're probably like eight, six and four, maybe at the time. And we went over to a friend's house and there was a friend I knew from college. And he said, hey, Hank,, a little older. I mean, they're probably like eight, six, and four maybe at the time. And we went over to a friend's house. And there was a friend I knew from college. And he said, hey, Hank, which is my nickname.

He's like, Hank, why don't you play piano for us? I'm like, all right. So I walk over and I sit down and I rip off this like Jerry Lee Lewis, you know, boogie-woogie piano thing. I'm like going crazy playing with my elbow and my feet, you know, all this. And I'm just kind of having fun. And I turn around and my kids' jaws are on the floor. They're like, dad, when did you learn how to do that? And I'm like, oh my gosh, my kids had no idea I could play the piano. Like they had no idea that I could do this because it's just not something we've like, we don't have a piano in our house, right? Like it's not something that I've

ever done. And yet I used to do this every single day of my life. Like that's what I did. And it just really, it's sort of, that's sort of cemented for me. I realized, you know, that it's not the, the love of music just wasn't in my heart. That wasn't the thing. I was, I was good at it. I could do it, but it wasn't in my heart. But the love of creating experiences for people of, of changing lives, even if just for that little bit of time, right. Um, has always been there. That's always been the thing that drives me, whether it's through a book or through an experience on stage or whatever it is, that's always been in me. And now that's what my work is crafted around,

which is really amazing. And I love that. Um, and so again, it's like such a full circle experience for me. Yeah, that's so it's yeah, it's interesting. And so, again, it's like such a full circle experience for me. Yeah, it's so – yeah, it's interesting. And now I'm finally understanding a little bit more. But I still think you should put the music back in your bio page because in my mind, like it really – it informs so much of what you – I mean it's interesting. I was recently sat down with Michael Port and who's now like he's shifting a lot of his focus to teaching people to be amazing speakers. And he says he's really come a full circle back to his early training in theater. It's interesting how, you know, it's like Steve Jobs' famous quote, you know, like you connect the dots looking back. You know, sometimes when you're in them, you don't really understand what's happening or why you're doing them.

But you get enough time behind you and you get enough data points to be able to look back and have dots to connect. And you'll eventually have enough dots so that they actually form a pattern or a fabric or a thread. You're like, oh, so that's what this whole thing has been about, which is interesting, kind of leading to the book that you wrote recently, Louder Than Words, because it kind of ties in with this whole thing. It does. And I think one of the quotes that I use in the book that you wrote recently of Louder Than Words, because it kind of ties in with this whole thing. It does, you know, and I think, you know, one of the quotes that I use in the book is a quote by Donald Newth, who is sort of like a theorist, a computer theorist. And he said, premature optimization is the root of all evil, right? And I think many of us have suspicions about who we are and about the value that we create. And like for Michael or for me or whatever,

that might take a certain form, but the problem is then we sort of optimize our lives around that early understanding. We think, oh, this is the thing. And so we optimize our lives around that thing and we stop growing and we develop these assumptions. We get into ruts about what is and what isn't possible for us and we stop embracing a mindset of growth

and contribution and developing our voice. I never use the phrase find your voice and louder than words, because I don't think it's about finding your voice. I think it's about developing your voice. I think it's a process over the course of time that you go through. And so we have to be careful not to allow that mindset of, oh, this is the thing. Oh, this is the thing. I think we can never think we've arrived at the thing. I think we have to instead continue moving through and keep open hands and say, okay, what's the next expression of this? What's the next expression of this? Because it's about the through line. It's about the productive passion. And the form that takes might change over time, you know, and the way that comes out. But you have to embrace the productive passion, the through line, not the container

that you put it in. Because when we get stuck in a certain container, a certain mindset, I think is when we often get stuck in life. Yeah, no, totally great. It's the process, not the place. You use the word voice a couple of times. And I've heard that word used so many different times. I know you write about it. But I've also heard people use it in totally different ways. So just to make sure that I understand and those that are going to be joining in this conversation later understand, can you just deconstruct a little bit more when you use the word voice? What do you actually mean by that?

Yeah. So your voice speaks louder than your words, right? Your voice is an expression through a medium to achieve an impact. And your voice is what your work communicates to achieve an impact. And your voice is what your work communicates to other people, which often is very different from the words that you use. And, you know, it's not what you say, it's how other people hear what you say. It's how other people receive what you say. And so when we talk about voice, what we're talking about is the essence of who you are, of your work, your productive passion,

what you put into your work, and the degree of investment that you put into your work. And all of those things come through in your voice and communicate to others where you stand, what's important to you, and at the end of the day, often cause your work to resonate or not to resonate with other people. And so we have to be cognizant of not just what we're doing, not just what we're saying. It's not about what we want, right? It's also about how we connect that message with other people because attention for your work is not a birthright. So we have to make sure that we understand who we're communicating with, what they care about, and tie that together with what we care about so that our work will connect

and resonate with them. So does that matter as much if the thing that you want to do, you don't need to build a living around? I think it matters greatly. I think it matters to everyone because I think we all have things we care about. We all have impact that we want to achieve, whether that's as a parent, if it's as a friend, if it's as somebody serving in our community or whatever, we have impact we want to achieve. And if we want our work to resonate, if we want that message or that impact to resonate with others, we have to first drill down on what do we care about? Who are we? What do we stand upon? What are the battles we deem worth fighting? What are the principles we're going to go to the map

for, right? And infuse those into our work so that people can see that we have skin in the game. I think it's critically important for a life well lived and ultimately for a satisfying life that we build our work around our authentic voice, not around the whims and wishes of other people. Yeah, I can't disagree with that. So I know we have limited time today, so I want to respect that. So I'm going to come full circle. So the name of this is Good Life Project.

So if I offer that phrase out to you, to live a good life, what comes up? What does it mean to you? So I have a little phrase I've lived by for many, many years. And this is, I think this is my definition of a good life. Create fiercely, love well, and die empty. That's what I want to do. That's kind of my mission statement in life. Every day I want to approach it with the utmost

of creativity, curiosity, solve problems, ask questions. I want to love well because I think that at the end of our life, we're going to be known not for what we took, but for what we gave. And so I want to love other people well, which doesn't always mean telling people what they want to hear. It means serving them, it means giving them what they need. And so I want to love other people well. And then I want to die empty. I don't want to take my best work to the grave. I want to make sure that I'm living my life in such a way that when they put me in the ground for the last time, I won't have deep regrets about all of the things that I'm taking with me to the grave. Instead, I've done everything I can to get my best work out of me every day.

Beautiful. Thank you so much. Jonathan, thank you. And thanks for all the great work that you do and the incredible example you are to all of us out here. I mean, just the way that you serve your community and elevate ideas. Thanks for what you do. Thank here. I mean, just the way that you serve your community and elevate ideas. Thanks for what you do. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thanks so much for joining in this week's conversation. You know, if you've actually stayed

till this point in the conversation, I'm guessing there's a pretty good bet that you've gotten something out of this episode, some nugget, some idea. If that is right and you feel like sharing, then by all means, go ahead. We love when you share these conversations and get the word out. And if you wouldn't mind, I would so appreciate if you would just take a few seconds, jump onto iTunes or use your app and just give us a quick rating or review. When you do that, it helps get the word out,

helps let more people know about the conversations we're hosting here, and it gives us all the ability to spread the word and make a bigger difference in more people's lives. As always, thank you so much for your kindness, your wisdom, and your attention. Wishing you a fantastic rest of the week. I'm Jonathan Field, signing off for Good Life Project. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations,

whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it. Find your push.

Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever. at onepeloton.ca. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman.

I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk.