Good Life Project - Danielle LaPorte: Truth, Devotion and the Evolution of Joy

Episode Date: April 17, 2017

Danielle LaPorte is soul-personified.I've known her for nearly a decade, and in that time, while so much has changed, one thing has remained consistent. Her fierce devotion to truth, to love, to kindness and the creation of beauty.Over that same time, she's left a trail of both massive successes and a few equally-notable misses. What I love about D is, she wouldn't have it any other way. Because it's that path, all of it, the spiritual nature of evolution and entrepreneurship, creation and destruction that's led her to this place in her life. Being deeply-present and utterly lit-up.Along the way, LaPorte has become an invited member of Oprah’s inaugural Super Soul 100, authored and produced The Fire Starters Sessions, The Desire Map, a stunning series of planner planners, a top 10 iTunes app, and an international workshop program with licensed facilitators in 15 countries and a rapidly-growing company.Her new book, White Hot Truth is now available for pre-sale and it lives up to its name. LaPorte wanted to write this book 7 years ago. We dive into why it didn't happen, why that's a really good thing and so much more in today's provocative and unfiltered conversation. Woven throughout, thoughts on devotion, truth, preaching, permission, kindness, joy, parenting, gurus and ease. Listen the first time for fun, then a second time with a pen in hand. This is Danielle teaching from the heart. Get the White Hot Truth audio book for free when you order a print copy HERE.+++ Today's Sponsors +++Today's show is supported by Bombas socks. They're ridiculously yummy and when you buy a pair, they give a pair to someone in need. Grab your first order today and get 20%-off when you enter the code GOODLIFE at checkout. Go to BOMBAS.COM/GOODLIFE.Good Life Project is also supported by FreshBooks, cloud accounting software that makes it insanely easy for freelancers and professionals to get paid online, track expenses and do more of what you love. Get your 1-month free trial, no credit card required, at FreshBooks.com/goodlife (be sure to enter The Good Life Project in the “How Did You Hear About Us?” section).  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Joy is what happens when you face your soul. This took me a decade to figure out. And I interviewed every rabbi, every lama, every Jew, boo, shrink, everybody. I would say, what do you think our true nature is? Because I think it's joy. My guest today is Danielle Laporte. We've known each other for the better part of a decade now. We kind of started in the quote online space right around then and have navigated and woven through these overlapping worlds of spirituality, entrepreneurship, personal growth and development

in our own ways. And we keep sort of bumping into each other. And she has developed a really fascinating lens on how all of these things work together. About seven years ago, she wanted to write a book called White Hot Truth, and she didn't do it. And we talk about why she didn't do it and why this is a great time, because now she has written that book. And it's just about to be out. You can actually pre-order it right now, and we will drop a link in the show notes, and we dive into what that's about, why this had to wait, what had to happen for this to be what it is, and what's happened in her life over the last five, six, seven, eight years that has profoundly

changed her lens on so many different things. Really excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. But I was thinking back to the first time that we actually sat down for a good life project

which was when we were filming and we were filming in the yoga studio that i used to own and you showed up and i didn't i forgot to tell you that we were actually filming in a yoga studio and you're all sort of dolled up because you're doing like a series of interviews and you had you know like the high heels shoes and like are we going to be hanging out on the floor on like bolsters? And you're really good. You're like, okay. I think I had a blazer on.

Right, there was something. And both of us within five minutes are so uncomfortable. We're like constantly shifting around on camera the whole time. And I'm like, no. This is better. This is much better.

Yeah. So good to be hanging out with you again. Yeah, you too, my friend. The book that you have out now, White Hot Truth. So for those who haven't figured out, Dee and I have known each other for a long time, and we've actually shared interviews. So if you're looking for a deep dive into sort of like her hero's journey, heroine's journey, we will drop in the show notes, great conversations that take you there.

I want to kind of focus more on what you're up to these days. The book that you've written now, White Hot Truth, this is going to sound weird, but I'm glad you waited until now to write it. I couldn't have written it sooner. Yeah. Let's deconstruct that a little bit because I think the last maybe five years or so have been so transformative in a non-foofy but also foofy way for you. From the outside looking in, it feels like if you had tried to write,

because I know this has been inside of you for a long time, but if you had tried to write this five years ago, it just would have been such a different thing. I did try it and write it a long time ago. It was about seven years ago. And the agent I was with at the time said it sounded like a mixtape. And I took real offense to that. I was like, because I want it to be a mixtape, because I'm a mixtape kind of person.

I want you to be able to open the book at any chapter and just take what you want and leave the rest. But that's not what this is. And I don't think that's what people need. And I needed to go to two dozen more workshops. I needed to bust out of some workshops in the middle of the night. I needed to be had by some charlatans. I needed more time on the meditation cushion. I needed to leave meditation and come back to it.

I needed to get divorced. I needed to leave meditation and come back to it. I needed to get divorced. I needed to beg for mercy. I needed to have a, quote, successful business and then really continue to examine what success really meant. And I needed to get really, really, really tired before I could write this book. And I got there. Yeah. What got you there? Was it everything that you just listed? Yeah. Yeah. It was really spiritual striving, not just material striving, because that's actually not been a huge driver. I mean, I want to have a great business, but I just want to be more evolved, make more of a contribution.

I want to be more loving. I want to be more forgiving. I want to be purified. I want to be in the best possible shape. And actually none of those things have changed. I want all of those things, but the motivation has changed. So I now want all of those things for me, and I really want to do it in my way, and I'm not, I'm really, really very, very clear, and this is why I could not have written the book sooner, I'm very clear approval is mine to give to me. Nobody else's.

And I'm very clear that I have something to offer in a very kind of high level conversation about spiritual growth and enlightenment. I can sit with a seasoned teacher and I might actually know some of the answers because of my own experience. And I have some really crystalline questions now. Yeah. And I also needed to witness my girls, like my girlfriends, be as exhausted and as hungry as I've been. Because it's an epidemic, you know? I wouldn't have written that if it was just my own experience, because I'm really not into memoir stuff. But yeah, we're all getting fried at trying to be better. It's funny.

Before we were, when I was reading through the book and I was reflecting on just conversations we've had over the years, And something you said came to mind. I don't remember what the context was, but I remember we were talking. We were talking about building life, building business. And you said to me, if it doesn't feel easy, it's not right, and I'm not doing it. Do you still feel that way? 1,000%. In fact, my current assignment with my therapist is to reprogram my nervous system for ease. And this is really, this is a, right now, a regular philosophical conversation I'm having

around ease. Because also with spiritual teachers, like people who I really consider my teachers and I'm actively turning to them, I'm in this – always this tug of war with them about, you know, do you really have to suffer to grow? Does enlightenment – you know, and I hear so much about just this kind of severity in devotion. And who wants that? Like, Not me. But at the same time, I know devotion requires some sweat. There's some stuff I know I want to work through, burn through, get over. But my learning now, my most current thing is that joy is what happens when you face your soul. This took me a decade to figure out.

And I interviewed every rabbi, every lama, every Jew, boo, shrink, everybody. I would say, what do you think our true nature is? Because I think it's joy. And some would agree with me and some wouldn't. And what I got to is that when I'm facing who I really am, my greatness, my wholeness, what I would call my soul, I experience joy. So my soul isn't actually joy. It's its own amazing, magnificent thing. But it's so much more than just joy. It's like really all encompassing. But when I as a personality face that, the experience is pretty joyful. To boil that down, to get it into a tweetable or an Instagram, because that is how you get enlightened. Of course, everybody knows. Finally, that's where I'm going with this. I mean, if I can't get this in 140 characters. Don't make me think whatever you do. That's right. You know, sometimes I put a truth bomb out there can't get this in 140 characters. Don't make me think whatever you do. That's right.

You know, sometimes I put a truth bomb out there and I get this big philosophical pushback. I'm like, dude, it's three words. I mean, I'm not trying to explain the secrets of the universe to you, right? Where was I going with that? Oh, yeah. To boil it down, when you are yourself, you are in ease. And bliss and ease are united. And I want to be there more often as much as possible. Yeah. Do you distinguish between easy and ease? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I think that's where I stumbled originally when you shared that with me.

And I think I've come to the same place as you by understanding that they're very different, that you can be going through the dark night of the soul, the gauntlet, whatever the work is that you have to do, but where it's hard. And at the same time, experience this with some odd sense of ease, because there's a coherence between sort of what you're doing, what you're aspiring for, and how the actions you're taking are representing the essence of who you are. That's a really, really great point. Yeah, like where I experience the necessity for stamina is with a lot of my spiritual practice. You know, like right now I'm very committed to a very particular meditation for a certain amount of time at a certain time of the day. And I want to see how that turns out. I want to see what that adds to my life and my consciousness. And that is not necessarily easy, but there is some ease to that. Like there's some rapture to

that. And I keep, I will keep showing up for that. Yeah. It's a tough concept. It is. But I think it's important to make that distinction. I don't want to skip over what you just shared also about is or is not the natural state of being joy. And to experience that, somehow we have to tap into the essence of just who we are. That's something I absolutely, I've seen so many times that because I've seen people who, friends of ours who we both know who are in the public eye, who seem to be unapologetic and light. and it feels like when you reach a point where you can drop the facade, the weight that you stop carrying around just unleashes something. And if that innate state is joy. You know, I think it could be one of two things. Because for myself, I don't feel that I've had a facade, but I felt weight.

I think the weight came from the goals. So I think for me it's about dropping the goals. For some people, it is about dropping the facade that you can be goalless, but my weightlessness that I have now, I'm just really not attached anymore. I still want things intensely, but like I'm unshakable now. If they don't show up, I'm good. I'm the same person. I'm going to keep creating. I'm just as loving today whether that producer gives me what I want or not.

Right? I'll be okay. I know who I am. And yeah, fewer goals, more soul. Which ties into the pace of life, I think also. I think that creates a lot of happiness. Maybe pace without intentionality. I've been really befriending the phrase long game lately. So there with you. So there with you. Yeah, and it like,

are we getting old? What's happening? I think so. Wise, not old wise. Wise. I mean, I'm talking like the long game of eternity considering that we live

84,000 lives in multi-dimensions and that, you know, this is just, I may have incarnated in this lifetime to learn one particular lesson. You know, the whole 111 years that I intend to learn could be just for one thing at the end of the day. And I'm not, without the goals, I'm not as much in a rush. But I love this kind of divine irony. My commitment, the intensity of my commitment to do good,

to raise the vibration, to broadcast light, to help people cleanse their thinking, to live in a more heart-based way, more intense than ever. Like I really, my purpose is, I've become a cliche. I get out of bed every day for that, but it'll take as long as it takes. It's really, it's this great paradox. Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting also, because I came to know you years ago as a maker, as a creator. That was what beat your heart. And I think it still does. You love to make beauty. And I've come to also see that there's a bit of a spectrum across nearly everyone that I've met. I'm going to call it everyone that I've met in terms of what the deeper driver is from maker on one end to helper on the other end. And some people are extreme on one side, some people are extreme on the other side,

and a lot of people fall on the spectrum in the middle. I've always heard in almost every... If you go to any self-help spiritual tradition, the answer is always if you want to live a good life in some way, shape, or form, serve others. Yes. The struggle happens so often with people who define themselves strongly as makers in that, I'm here to create beauty. It's nice that other people benefit from it and enjoy it, but I wake up in the morning because there's something I have to make. And whether anybody sees it or not, I need to make it. And when I first started playing with you, I got that. To me, I was like, that is Danielle. And it does feel like there's been an evolution from the outside looking in, that is still fiercely a part of you. But it seems like you've tapped in increasingly and

become more attuned to the fact that making in service of others is an entirely different level of reward and gift. clear. And there's lots of things I can make. There's so much I could repurpose. I've got a moleskin full of ideas. And I just think, well, it's not going to serve as many people. Yeah, the yes and no becomes clear when making and service are both on the docket. Do you feel that shift also? Or was it, was I just, did I not know you well enough? Well, I think I'm much more, if it's possible, I'm even more opinionated than I was the first time. I think I'm much more out about my spiritual beliefs. I'm not apologizing for my woo. And more than not apologizing, I'm actually just full on preaching these days. And, you know,

I'm just about to speak at a business conference a few days from now. And I will not be holding back on my opinions about what conscious business really is. It's more than a one for one model. It's more than just using recycled paper and your printer. That if you are not operating with a triple bottom line, you're actually part of the problem. We need to take sides, especially with business right now. I want to be on the side that includes everybody. It's the light side where everybody matters, but pick a side. You're really now, you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution because let's wake up. Yeah. So.

What led you to a place where you decided that had to be a much more public part of what you're creating? Oh, I'm in huge pain. I mean, I feel so much suffering because of the suffering in the world. I feel guilty every time I throw up plastic. I feel this heaviness when I travel because of the environmental weight on the planet. I cry when I see mothers carrying their babies, trying to migrate to places that will maybe or maybe not hold them in safety. It's gruesome to see how women are still being treated in business and in relationships. The political situation I feel is just, you know, the worst of humanity

is rising to the surface to be healed. Things are messed up, profoundly messed up. I think we are living in a state of rampant immorality. And it sounds so evangelical of me to say rampant immorality, but that's my perspective. And I'm like progressive, sowed some seeds, like to party, check. But this is the dilemma that I see. I think our ethics are really fucked right now. So that's part of what's driving you. Yeah. Agony. You think people are fundamentally good?

Yes. I do. I think that we all want to be loved and be loving. I think we like the feeling of doing the right thing. And I think some people incarnate as darkness. This is part of the long game. Like, it's not just nature and nurture conversation. You know, is, you know, so-and-so dictator, leader, is he just beaten by his father and that's why he's turned out sideways? I think there's a bigger picture than that. I think there's karmic implications and there's huge metaphysical forces at play. But I think the majority of human beings are flames, flames of love.

So here's my curiosity. When you walk into a business event and you step on stage and you talk about conscious business and triple bottom line, and this is about something so much bigger, how far do you go when you're speaking down the rabbit hole of what you just shared with me? Because this is something that's on my mind also. So I'm curious, because we both speak and we both speak to a blend of personal and business audiences. And if you do feel like there's something much bigger happening, and at the same time, you really want your message to land in a way where people will take action on it, where's the line? I think there is no line anymore. I think I can't have a line.

I think I have to be very conscious and very loving. I think I need to get on stage and say everything I said without shaming anybody. And I'm not out to convert anybody. I'm not aiming for X percentage of the audience to go out and take action. Just the right person is going to hear it and the way it needs to be heard and they'll take their action. That's all. I just really have to be myself. And I think that's what we're all being called to do. Please publicly disagree with me. Please be the speaker before or after me and have a very different message. Just be honest and open and fluid and be devoted

to being of service by being yourself. Because I just think that's what power is, to freely, with the intention to serve, stand up and say what you believe in. And ideally, you're doing that from an examined place. You are living an examined life. I mean, part of the problem is there's a lot of people with a microphone who aren't living examined lives, and they have great branding and a lot of followers on Instagram. And that's cool too. This is part of the confusion and the upheaval. You got to get lost before you get found. You got to fall for some lies before you get to the truth.

So there's room for everybody, but question your quest. That's what I'm for these days. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton.

Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg.

You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him! We need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. And I wonder sometimes whether the fact that we all have microphones now, you and I are sitting in front of two, leads to the ability for anybody to basically share, this is my truth in the moment at an early enough point in their

exploration where they believe in their heart it to be the truth, but they've not either examined or lived. And I think that's okay. But the listener, the recipient has to be examining that. Right. And it comes down to the idea of discernment, which I know is something that you're take me into the discernment rabbit hole because it's so important right now. Everything I'm about right now is about that discernment. That is why I could not have written White Hot Truth until recently, because I had to fall for some lies. I had to fall for my own lies. And like, I'm all about the wake up call now. Like, does that really, does his message really

resonate with you? Do you really, are you really buying what she's saying? Some of it is true. Some of it isn't. Some of that is just repackaged other people's stuff. Do you think they've really suffered? Really? How much money do you think she, you know, like I'm interested in the teachers who have suffered. I'm very interested in someone's motivations about why they need a platform. I mean, I'm really interested in someone's definition of the good life. And the root of the word glamour is deception. Is it really? Yeah. To deceive. And I think a lot of what's happening out there is glamour, spiritual glamour.

Part of the challenge, I think, is also understanding what is the process of discernment. I don't think it's taught. Deception. No, it's not taught. You know, I think it's one of those things where we'll teach you the process of math, of writing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But just an intelligent approach to discernment. If you go back to the Stoics or the ancients, this was a critical part of the education because it was first and foremost about character. How do we build character? And you can't build character unless you understand a way of examining the world. And unless you opt into that path, which I don't think many people do now, we're just not equipped with a set of questions or a process

that makes it easy for us to look around and say, huh, what's that really all about? That's a great observation. Yeah. I think we're not taught, I know, we're not taught about our feelings in school. You know, I wrote a whole book on how do you want to feel. Indeed. It was a big part of my thing. And we're not taught to tune into our bodies. You know, like my son came home from daycare when he was four and said,

Miss so-and-so said we shouldn't talk to strangers. I said, well, that's crap. You're not going to go through your whole life not talking to anybody? I said, your body knows. When we walk down the street, your body knows who we should talk to and who we shouldn't. Of course, there's some people you shouldn't talk to, but you know. That's what we need to be taught. Not that everybody's bad, but that you can trust your senses. You have them and you can trust them. And character. And character transcends glamour. Character transcends the American dream, the North American dream. Transcends cash. Character is what I think conscious business is about. And it's not as profitable if you only have one bottom line.

Kindness costs you money almost every single time. It doesn't mean you can't have wildly lucrative revenue streams, right? But when you're not driven by the dough, your character can lead the way. Yeah. Yeah. And increasingly, I look at entrepreneurship, the process of entrepreneurship. And I think you've come to the same place also. You know, I love making stuff. You and I both love the thing that terrifies so many people, which is like a blank white page. It's like, bring it on.

Yes. Once there's something on it, then I want to give it to somebody else to do something with. But I love that process. But it's that rest of the process that I've really come to see the process of entrepreneurship less as about building a thing and more about what the process does to the person within the process. I think entrepreneurship can be a spiritual path if you allow it to be. Yeah, it's just therapy. Really?

You're going to learn what you need to learn either way, right? That's just my way of saying yes, I think you're right. Entrepreneurship can be a spiritual process. Yeah, ask him pretty much anything if you want it to be. Devotion is a word that has come up in this conversation and is a word that I know you write about. Tell me more about your thoughts around what it is, why it matters, how to find it. Well, my journey has been before I could really be more devoted to the truth, to light, to love, to joy, to faith. Those are my things. To God, however,

you know, I want to define that. I had to have a prodigal experience with all the stuff I thought I was devoted to. So I left meditation and I left yoga and I left clean eating. And in some ways, I left a lot of the seeking out of fatigue, out of frustration. I was like, meditating was really stressing me out. And I'm pretty sure that was not the point. Pretty sure you're not alone with that too. And but I mean, so many of us know like instinctively these things. I mean, the ones I've just named are the cornerstones of whole living for a reason. And when I could come back to each of those on my own terms, a meditation that worked for me, and then I could really, once I said no to it, I could feel this genuine desire for practice arising with me. Like I

started to crave that kind of stillness. Oh, that's interesting. I really actually want this not because someone's telling me, but I need, wow, I can feel my brain cool down when I sit. If I chant that particular mantra, that particular mantra, X amount of times, I can feel the effects of that on my nervous system. Because I'm more creative, and I'm kinder, and I talk shit way less about other people, the more I meditate, the more I sit, you know, and I didn't want to eat chicken anymore. And every time I ate meat, I apologized to the animal. That was creating a lot of stress on my body.

And then, you know, so these natural inclinations started to arise within me that fit these ancient teachings. And I realized I could practice in my own way. And I still feel some, like there's some Catholic guilt kickback. And when you engage with any kind of spiritual teacher, and you know, there's some kind of discipline involved, you know, the ease as opposed to the easy. There's some tension there. Am I doing this to impress you to be, you know? So I'm more devoted than ever, but I'm more liberal than ever about how I do what I do. It's so much more about intention for me than it is about practice. you know, a native ceremony and the recrimination for not touching, you know, the sacred object in a certain way, even though she wasn't told how to handle that particular thing and the endurance that was involved, that was required in the teepee. And I get it. I get it. I understand some basic things about metaphysics and about the math of spirituality.

And still, and still, I think it gets down to intention. So I'm devoted to keeping my intention in check. And if I got to meditate on the bus one day, then that's what happens. Or not. Yeah. Which also sort of brings the idea of practice into the conversation because devotion is there has to be a practice. Maybe we'll take the word has, has to out of that, right? Good catch. Invitation. There's got to be an invitation to explore a

practice. But almost everything good in my life has come from a devotion to turn it into a practice, even when I really don't want to. I mean, my dirty secret for years is I taught yoga and meditation, and I had a brutally hard time sitting to meditate. And the only time I came to it personally was when I had tinnitus, and I literally was just trying to figure out how to get through each day. And I came back to it as a way to maybe find a way to be able to breathe again and be okay with the sound in my head that would never leave. And it brought me to my knees. And then the practice,

even though it was really hard in the beginning, is what brought me back up to my feet. But for that experience, I don't know if I would have had the motivation to become devoted enough to turn it into a practice. And then through turning it into a practice, experience the forgiveness, the space, the peace. The compassion. Yeah. That's the beautiful thing is like, I think the other word for practice, I would love to find another word, I'm with you, is attention. Yeah. That's the beautiful thing is like, I think the other word for practice, I would love to find another word, I'm with you, is attention.

Yeah. You know, it's, are you going to pay attention? Like, you've got to pay attention to your relationship. You've got to pay attention to your body. This is, everything good requires daily attention. And life will get your attention, won't it? We need more attention. Hello.

Calling Jonathan and Danielle. Trying to get your attention. So let's bring you to your knees. And there's these tools. You know, work. Do we have your attention? Yeah. I'm going to give you my attention back.

That's devotion. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder, sometimes when I write, part of what's going on with me, I'm so curious if this is going on in your head at all, is wouldn't it be cool if I could create an experience that could bring somebody to the same point that they were at when they're on their knees in terms of an openness and a motivation to take action without actually having to have their shins hit the floor.

That's beautiful. Yeah, I try and get as grisly as I can. Like, let me just make this clear how much this sucks. Are you with me? Do you feel the agony? Let me remind you of the agony. I'll just remind you. Great.

Now you don't have to go through it. And you can just like short circuit it and be devoted. Yeah. It doesn't work that way though. We both know that. Yeah, I know. And I think that's the aspiration with so many teachers who in some way

teach or speak or write about living on the planet more comfortably is that we want to relieve a certain amount of suffering. And we equate that with helping people get to a place of action-taking, awakening, connection, intentionality, without having to go to the same depths. But maybe that's not possible. I don't know. What do you think? I don't think it's possible.

But I think you relieve suffering by saying I will be with you when you go down. I'll be with you when you come up. And I made it through to the other side. You're really just cheerleading on the suffering. Yeah, you can't skip the steps. Of course, I think out of love we would love to help people skip the steps.

I think of all the teachers I've had, even the shrinks and the friends who just, you know, even your own parents who say, if I could do this for you, I would, but I can't. You've got to go through the breakup. You've got to get to the job interview. You've got to barf on the bus on your way to the job interview. Learn how to manage that anxiety. But I am cheering you on. I am cheering you on. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so important too, which also really speaks to the role of teachers for all of us. I know you've written about this and you've spoken about it many times. It seems like you have a universe of teachers. And you've thought a lot

about the role of teachers. What's your thinking on the role of teachers these days? Right now, I think it is about friendship. And the whole notion of friendship was brought up to me by my friend, Jono Fisher. And we were talking about awesome human he's an awesome human yeah and i had to agree i was talking about you know this buddhist concept that your true nature is warm luminous and friendly i was like wow friendly. That's so light in like this heavy Buddhist context, you know. But that was it. Give me the me, profound stuff. And I noticed like even in my own thinking and writing, I was saying things like, you need to befriend your loneliness and befriend your anger and befriend your cravings.

And I was like, no, Danielle, just get to the heart of it. Just befriend yourself. Treat yourself like you would a friend. And then that doesn't feel very sexy as a writer because everybody said that. And, you know, all the best wisdom is really so simple, but that's it, friend. And my best teachers, I can think of two in particular who are in my life right now. It's really friendship first, teaching second. And for sure, I'm not interested in this kind of Zen master dynamic, which is a huge departure from friendship.

So I'm not interested in being tested at all. I've always really been allergic to the idea that, you know, a Godhead is testing us. And I learned that through motherhood. I don't test my child. There's lessons, there's teachings, but it's never like, oh, let's see if he can do this. Not from that, you know, there's almost that sinister feel when you hear about this. And certainly in a Catholic context, you know, the Lord is testing you. It's not very loving.

So friendship is, I want the best for you. I'm going to lay down my teachings and I'm going to cheer you on and I'll be here for you. It's not, I'm testing you. And friendship sees you. Real teachings, real teachers, there's a reciprocity. They're really with you, so they can see your brilliance. They're learning from you too. It's this great friendship. Which also really kind of brings in the idea of, it's funny. I think we've known really all we need to know for thousands of years. Derek Sivers has a great line, if information was the answer, we would all be billionaires with six pack abs. Yeah, and perfect skin. with people and being open and having enough safety in the relationship that you can hold them when they need to be held and be held when you need to be held, be vulnerable in that space,

and also be honest. White hot truth is not about holding back. It's about, I'm going to tell you, I could be wrong be wrong but i'm gonna tell you what i see and hope that we have faith in the container we've created in our friendship that it doesn't end things but that somehow it helps i never give my opinion unsolicited now so wait is that something new? Not in the context. Like you can see something with a friend, and this is now part of my, I would think, my evolution as a person, being more loving.

And I'll just say, you want my take? And then I'll let it rip. And even then, my delivery is a lot softer than it used to be. But I'm like so done trying to change people. I'm also so done thinking I know what's right for somebody. You know, one of my hashtags could be they should have listened to me. Especially in a business context. Someone will come back and like, oh, it tanked.

I was like, I fucking told you to not launch, you know. That'll be the name of the next book after White Heart Truth. Yeah. You should have listened. But you're going to learn the way you're going to learn. Yeah. And I just have a lot more space for mystery and my heart is bigger. So I'm okay being wrong.

I'm okay not being right. I'm okay not being right. I'm okay not being the savior. I don't even need to be as thanked as much as I used to need to be thanked. Yeah. It's a lot easier that way. It is. But you have to somehow, that has to come from the inside out because you have to be doing all that to and for yourself for you to be okay not needing it from the outside in anymore yeah yes the apple watch series 10 is here it has the biggest display ever it's also the thinnest

apple watch ever making it even more comfortable on your wrist whether you're running swimming or sleeping and it's the fastest charging apple watch getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman i knew you were gonna be fun on january 24th tell me how to fly this thing mark walberg you know what the difference between me and you is you're gonna die don't shoot if we need them y'all need a pilot flight risk what i know for sure now about compassion is you know well my my really my through line with White Hot Truth is the best self-help is self-compassion.

I mean, that's really the end of the story, right? But that it's really those critical times when you hate yourself. When if you can pour on some compassion in those moments, when you are learning the same damn lesson, again, you can't believe you just made the same deal that you thought you'd never make again, you know? And when you can pour on the love then, that's when it really becomes medicine. And you can, you know, I can say to myself, oh, Danielle, you're a little harsh. You got a good heart. When you forgive yourself, when you think what you've done is unforgivable, and I have some pretty high standards for myself, when I just say tomorrow's another day. Yeah, not an easy place to come to.

No, no. Yeah, especially in a world where I feel like it's so easy. There's so much of other people's opinions coming at us 24-7. And there are so many channels for those opinions to come at us. And on the one hand, there's data, there's value. Somewhere in the emotion, in the opinion, there's data that helps us do what we're here to do, that helps us evolve personally or build what we're here to build personally. But it's wrapped and mired and interwoven with a lot of stuff which is harmful and not good and very often untrue. So it makes it harder, I think, to both be able to parse what is true from the outside in and what's, you know, I'm rubber, you're glue. And it's, you know, we live in a world where I think it's so easy to get caught up because there's so many more pathways to every single person for other people's opinions to arrive. So I think the need for

really healthy boundaries, and you talk about this setting up fences is that discernment plus real intelligent fences. I think the need is pretty high. And at the same time, kind of like, but if there's something out there that will help me grow, may suck to hear it, but I want to know. Well, first I want to say I'd much rather be alive now than a few hundred years ago when I had one church to go to and not as many channels. Yeah, true that. One something being preached at me. So I'm down with the options. I like the smorgasbord.

And I think it is calling for us to be more discerning. My ministry, my ministry of boundaries. That's a great URL, ministry of boundaries. It's a great URL, ministry of boundaries. It's a bit dominatrix, though. It gives you options if you want to change your business model. It's like, eh. Add an extra service. That is really in a specific context, which you can take out into this conversation about social media and being inundated with other people's opinions and beliefs. But what I saw for myself, what I see

with a lot of women in the self-help space is, you know, we can be really self-determined in terms of business. We can be kick-ass online entrepreneurs, but our boundaries are for shit in terms of general relationships. And that is because, in my observation, we do a lot of things in the name of being spiritual. We become more loving, even more loving. Oh, maybe far more loving. And that's all just self-help code for excessive tolerance and what I call foolish compassion, because the Buddhists call it idiot compassion. I think that's not very compassionate. Let's just call it foolish compassion. And insanely and ridiculously loyal, to be more spiritual. And that's where you need boundaries

with information and teachings coming in, like discerning, like, no, there are a lot of teachings that are talking about self-love first. And so loving yourself first means you're actually going to probably piss off that person you're in a relationship with because you're not going to take their shit anymore. And not taking someone's shit doesn't look very spiritual. And in fact, sometimes the enlightened thing to do is to create disharmony, not harmony. But, you know, new age schlock has us believe that harmony is the goal. But that's just harmony on one dimension, people. I mean, it's not harmony with the bigger picture where like there's the scales of karma and there's real like learning on all levels. So spirituality has a lot, at least my version has a lot to do with justice and mercy.

And it has to do with saying, you need to stay off my property and I forgive you. But still, you're not welcome. Not welcome here anymore. But I forgive your soul. Yeah, it holds you when it needs to hold you and breathes fire when it needs to breathe fire. It's authentic to the moment. You brought up parenting moment. Yeah.

Let's talk about our kids. Yeah. You know, what's interesting to me is, you know, I know you spent a lot of time in a lot of lineages, studying a lot of texts, learning with a lot of people and teachers and going on retreats and workshops and traveling around the world and for decades. Is there any better? No. There is no better teacher than your child. Yeah, right. Yeah.

Years ago, I was listening to, I think it was NPR, and it was David Crosby. Yeah, who'd spent time with the gurus and all this. And to this day, I remember the line. He's like, you know what? I learned more watching my three-year-old toddler play across the lawn for 15 minutes than I learned studying at the feet of a guru for 15 years. And yeah, I think being a parent, if you choose to allow it to shape you, is the most powerful growth path that I've experienced. And I don't mean to say that anybody who's listening to this who's not a parent doesn't have access to it in many different ways and playing that role in

any other person's life. But I think we're both seekers and many people who are listening to this have sought so many different paths. And for me, simply being present in the life of another person who is looking to you for so many different things. And stumbling and bumbling, as we're stumbling and bumbling in our own paths, is profound from a teaching standpoint. Well, I think the distillation of that is if you choose to serve love. Because I think the learning comes in, I choose to serve my son. And that's pretty radical on the ego,

because I'm the mother and the older, but I feel honored to be his parent. And I don't regard him, it's not a pedestal thing. But he's going to be pretty close to the center of my universe. And I've taken on helping him become who he wants to be in this world, this lifetime. And that takes a lot of free service. Like he's number one. He is number one. And I managed to get a lot of stuff done because, you know, we're all wonder women. But yeah, and watching him how he listens to himself has been a great lesson for me. It's just like he knows when it's a yes and when it's a no. It's like, oh, I got to go with that.

Yeah, there's something to be said for this first thought, right thought. And seeing how I put my neediness on him sometimes, I don't want to do that with him, with anybody, any kind of relationship. And, yeah, he calls me, I must be more of myself in order to be an awesome mom for him. Yeah. And standing up for myself too. Like, you know, this is a person I love the most on the planet, who is the most sensitive, the most impressionable. And I'm going to say, guess what? It's all about me today.

I get to pick the movie and I get to pick where we're going. And you're going to just watch and learn. And I'll roll with those consequences. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. I feel like kids are so much more embodied too. Yeah.

You brought this up earlier when we were talking, right? And that there's so much wisdom that our body is, we walk down the street using our words, right? And we know who's safe and who's not safe. Our body is telling us, but we've become so disembodied. I think, especially in Western world that we've turned those signals off, those pathways off. And I kind of feel like before a certain age, at least so many kids are just naturally there before it kind of slowly gets turned off. It reminds you sometimes to reconnect with that. It's like, at least, so many kids are just naturally there before it kind of slowly gets turned off. It reminds you sometimes to reconnect with that. It's like, oh, yeah, that is inside of me.

I'm also really learning right now. You know, you're talking earlier about is there a line, like when I'm on stage laying out my opinions, is there a line? And the answer is no. And there's no line with my kid. And I've had this conversation with a lot of self-help oriented moms who are like, you know, should I really try and get my kid on the bandwagon of meditation or essential oils or clean eating? And I'm like, yes, look, it took you decades to figure out what holistic means to you. Why would you hold back? And it doesn't matter if you're teaching them scripture or yoga moves or why, you know, frankincense oil is amazing. They're going to roll their eyes anyway, no matter what you teach them, because they need to resist because it's part of building

their identity. So with my kid, I am full on full out with my opinions about how life really works. And sometimes there's the eye roll. And sometimes I think I'm really effectively brainwashing him into my belief system, which is my job. It works for me. I think it will work for you. I'm going to just give it to you morning, noon and night. And you will learn to discern as you go and make your own choices. And we also have to walk it. I mean, because that's, I think, part of the thing that happens is that it doesn't matter what we say. If there's this cognitive dissonance, because we're preaching one thing and living another thing. Anyone we're trying to teach, but especially kids, family, they just look at that

and they're like, well, that's not right because you're not doing it. That's come home to me in positive and negative ways. And it's made me sometimes examine my actions beyond just what I have to say. I remember when my daughter was a lot younger, I had read Carol Dweck's book, Success. I'm blanking on the name now, but it's all about growth versus fixed mindset. So I was like, oh my gosh, I have to teach my kid that it's all about investing the effort and stuff like that. And it's not about some sort of gift that lets you do something. And I remember telling her she would come home with homework and she'd be like, ask me for my help. And I'd be like, totally glad to help you. I will give you

everything you need. Have you first tried your best to do it yourself? You know, I would want her to invest in struggle a little bit. If she could figure it out as much as she could on her own, I wanted her to have the feeling of having toiled with it and then figured it out rather than just being handed to it because it feels so much better. And I remember she had like a friend over with a little sister one day and hearing her like off in the background saying to this little girl who was asking her for help, she's like, first do your best. She was like eight then or something like

that. I'm like, oh, that's pretty funny. I have to be careful with what I say. But yeah, I do think there's a really unique opportunity both to play a role in the lives of others and kids and also in how that reflects up and they become our greatest teachers. And we broaden that out too in the conversation. I think if we allow anybody to become our teachers through observing them, beginner's mind is something that's been increasingly a mantra for me. I've noticed, yeah. Yeah. How do you feel about sort of that state?

I wrote about it in the Firestarter sessions. And I told the story about firewalking. So I did my thing. I walked on the hot coals. And everybody gathers back in the center after the fire. And I noticed a few people were nursing some toes. Things got a little crispy for a few folks. And I looked, I kind of did the math and I realized

that almost all of them, it was their second, third, fourth fire walk. I thought, I got to get in there and figure out what, you know. And so I, you know, gently interviewed a few of them and said what what's up with the blisters and i said i got cocky went to the next one i was like but i thought this was like your third firework and i'm like yeah i really should have approached this like it was my first one. I was like, noted. And let's, for the record, state, I have never walked on fire again. I got what I needed the first time. Right. It's like, I'm good. I'm good. I was a beginner. Don't need to do it again.

I am in the moment right now. That's the song you sing as you're walking across 20 feet of burning hot coals. I don't think I'm really good at it. Tell me how to have a beginner's mind, Jonathan. Yeah, I don't know. But that's part of what I'm trying to explore right now. It's like, how can I look at something? And when I think I've become pretty good at it, just question that assumption. I think for me, it's a process of constantly questioning assumption and constantly putting myself. So I recently did, I went out and I did a training where for the first time in a really long time, I went out and I did a training where for the first time in a really long time, I was the student in the room for three days and a small

group of people and with a friend who was running it, who I consider, you know, like a colleague and you know, we're both really good at what we do. But I had to put myself in the role of student, total student, and not sitting there sort of checking off what I knew and what I didn't know and not chiming in because I wanted to prove that I had some value in the room, but just sitting there and saying, just let it land. It's really hard for me too. But I found I got so much out of the experience that I don't think I would have had I come in just with a different mindset. You know, I think it has to do with what's that saying about you never enter the river at the same point? Because I just did, because you're always a different person when you enter the

river. I did, it wasn't a workshop, but I was doing a friend's workbook on relationships. And some of them are like really basic fundamental questions that you've been asked like a dozen times before about your relationship history and stuff. And I thought like, I just breeze through it. You know, I can just give one word answers and get through it. And I was like, I'm different now though. I answered the same question so many years ago, but you know, let's just answer it from like Danielle today. And maybe that's what it is. It's like you today. Same question, different you. Yeah. Which is the perfect time to come full circle because I've asked you this question years ago, which is as we sit here,

the name of this is Good Life Project. So when I offer that phrase, what comes up for you? What does it mean? A life full of kindness. I know before I think my answer was love. I think I'm getting much more specific about what I feel love to be. And kind, kind, kind, kind. Yeah, just be kind kind don't be an asshole thank you oh thank you always

thanks so much for listening to today's episode if the stories and ideas in any way moved you i would so appreciate if you would take just a few extra seconds for two quick things. One, if it's touched you in some way, if there's some idea or moment in the story or in the conversation that you really feel like you would share with somebody else, that it would make a difference in somebody else's life, take a moment and whatever app you're using, just share this episode with somebody who you think it'll make a difference for. Email it if that's the easiest thing, whatever is easiest for you. And then of course, if you're compelled, subscribe so that you can stay a part of this continuing experience. My greatest hope with

this podcast is not just to produce moments and share stories and ideas that impact one person listening, but to let it create a conversation, to let it serve as a catalyst for the elevation of all of us together, collectively, because that's how we rise. When stories and ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change happens. And I would love to invite you to participate on that level. Thank you so much as always for your intention, for your attention, for your heart. And I wish you only the best. I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. We'll be right back. The Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever,

making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual

results will vary.