Good Life Project - David Krumholtz | Taking Life As It Comes

Episode Date: November 14, 2019

Growing up in Queens, NY, at the age of 13, David Krumholtz, stumbled into the world of acting when he followed friends to an open audition on a lark, landed the role, then found himself on a Broadway stage alongside Judd Hirsh and Tony Shaloub. That launched a decades-long career in acting and eventually writing in TV and film, with credits that include a five-year run on the TV show Numbers, The Good Wife, Law & Order, HBO’s The Deuce and movies like Addams Family Values, The Santa Clause series, Slums of Beverly Hills, and now in his newest role, he plays a police officer in the deeply-provocative movie, Crown Vic.In today’s conversation, we dive into his journey as an actor, but also quickly zoom the lens out to explore his love of music, culture, family, feelings about the acting life and the role of work in his bigger mix, what makes him come alive, the importance of humility and kindness, his experience with depression and cancer, and then we dive into the gritty and provocative story behind his new film, Crown Vic, and the tough questions it asks viewers to consider, while leaving no pat answers.-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So growing up in Queens, New York, which is not that far from where we are right now in Manhattan, at the age of about 13, my guest today, David Krumholtz, literally stumbled into the world of acting on a lark when he followed friends of his to an open audition, having never acted before, and landed the role soon after found himself on a Broadway stage alongside Judd Hirsch, Tony Shalhoub, and an incredible cast. That launched a decades-long now career in acting and eventually also writing in TV and film

with credits that include a five-year run as a lead on the TV show Numbers, so many different appearances on shows like The Good Wife, Law & Order, more recently HBO's show The Deuce, movies like Adam's Family Values, the Santa Claus series of movies, Slums of Beverly Hills. And now in his newest role, he plays a police officer in a really deeply provocative movie called Crown Vic, which we circle around and talk to. So in today's conversation, we dive into this incredible journey, but also zoom the lens quickly out and explore more broadly his love of music

and culture and family, his feelings about the acting life and the role of work and his work in his bigger mix of what makes him come alive, the importance of humility and kindness. And then we dive into this really gritty and provocative story behind his new film, Crown Vic, and the tough questions that it asks viewers to consider while kind of leaving no pat answers along the way. Super excited to share this conversation with you.

I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-nest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun.

On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk. It sounds like you get into music at a pretty young age also. I'm kind of fascinated by the musical side of you as well.

You know, I love music and always have. And, you know, I love all kinds of music except for like emo. Like, you know, early 2000s emo. The lick on your face is like, yeah, that's the um, it makes me want to listen to it, but, um, but I can see why people love it. Uh, you know, um, but yeah, uh, I only recently, uh, got asked to be in a grateful dead cover band in New Jersey, which really is a highly acute representation of my midlife crisis. But, you know, it's been really fun. And yeah, I play bongos and congas and I sing and it's just been crazy fun.

I love the Grateful Dead. It's such a, we're in such an intense pocket in the tri-state area that people don't realize, like, this is really the sort of unofficial home of Grateful Dead cover bands, of deadheads. I mean, Woodstock being nearby, but there's never a lack of, I mean, almost every single night you can find a Grateful Dead cover band nearby. Somewhere, yeah. Playing somewhere. And not all of them are great.

And, you know, some of them are just sort of figuring it out as they go. But a couple of them are incredible. I mean, really incredible. You know, they recreate the sound or they do something different. There's a band I was playing in briefly called Dead Meat. And they do amazing sort of interpretations, funky interpretations of dead songs. And they just throw a party, and it's a lot of fun for people. And you'd be surprised how many people show up. I mean,

night after night, you know, Tuesday nights, you know? Yeah. I mean, I think it's also a testament just to the continuing loyalty and massive size of sort of like the deadhead community. Yes. Years after Jerry's passed now. And granted, yes, like they're sort of like touring in a different incarnation like these days. Well, there's something addictive about the music. You know, I absolutely. And, you know, of course, the substances that people employ when they listen to the music are also addictive. But yeah, there's something so unique about it

and so uniform about their sound that I think either you love it or you don't. No one hates it. They just sort of, you're either obsessed with it or you aren't. I mean, it's an obsession. Yeah, no, completely. I mean, it's also, I think it's a combination

of the jam vibe and the lyrics. I mean, Robert Hunter, who was behind so many lyrics, just passed, what, September? Yeah, just a few, a couple months ago. What an incredible testament also that the dead get inducted into the Hall of Fame and one guy who is, I don't think he ever actually performed on stage with them, was inducted as part of the band. Yeah.

I don't think that's ever happened before, at least not that I know of. Well, he wrote so many of the songs. You know, to me, he and Jerry are the greatest lyricists of all time. You could argue that Bob Dylan is one, but Bob Dylan covered so much ground that it was almost overkill, whereas Grateful Dead lyrics are like Bob Dylan lyrics, but nuanced and a little more ethereal. And they feel like they've been channeled through. I mean, Ripple is one of the greatest poems that's ever been written. And certainly when put to music, it's just extremely profound. Yeah, no, great.

I think Hunter did some stuff with Dylan at one point. Yeah, probably. Dylan and the Dead also crossed paths many times. Anyway, we can go down the music pipe and let's come back over here. So you're hanging out. You're growing up in a family in Queens with your mom. Whoa. I know all this stuff.

Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Scary. Can I ask you, actually, is that a little bit weird to sort of sit across from people knowing that there are solid windows of your life that are fairly public and have people like oddly know stuff about you? I stopped caring about it. At one point, it was very odd. Yeah. And it's not why I'm in the game.

Right. not why I'm in the game. It's not why, you know, there was a period where I thought, oh, well, if I can become well-known and famous, then that's what I will do, you know, with all my, you know, passion, I will become famous. And that was really, you know, stupid. I'd much rather be known as reliable. And, um, but yeah, it's gotten weird. I mean, the last six months kind of ratcheted up a bit, you know, I think sort of people are starting to put together, oh, that guy who was in that was also that guy. And that's, um, a great reward. I always wanted to be sort of in the league of classic character actors that have amazing range. And so that happening and being recognized for that is kind of cherry on the cake. You know, I don't aspire to much more than that.

As far as people knowing stuff, know they don't know you know what i mean it's you know i hold the stuff they don't know close to me and i i try to normalize the situation by disarming people i'm extremely humble like i've worked with a lot of actors who aren't and i've i've always from day one sort of bristled at that in seeing it and being part of it or being a victim of it. I just never wanted to become that kind of artist. I don't really find what I do so fascinating. I'm more of sort of just more of a cosmic existentialist there, thus my love for The Grateful Dead.

And I really, it's my job. You know, it's a job. You know, I heard Harrison Ford say that once. Someone was like, what is it like being Harrison Ford? Granted, you know, all these people are way more famous than I'll probably ever be. And he just said, it's the job. It's the job.

Recently, one of my dear friends, who I knew before he became famous, who's essentially iconic now. And I won't name him. I won't drop that name. But he's an iconic guy and extremely famous on a level that I don't think I could handle. He recently sort of came to the realization that half his job was handling his fame instead of running from it or hiding or portraying himself as something that he wasn't. And he, you know, all the best, all the kindest famous people that I've ever worked with or met have really, um, downsized their egos, you know, um, without necessarily balancing it with an inferiority complex. They, they find a nice balance, which is, you know, sort of, it takes some serious

mindfulness. You know, fame is a drug and the first rush of fame is fear, you know. I remember my friend who I'm talking about, we went, he had just sort of exploded and it was maybe a weekend to overnight fame. And we went to a concert together and he got mobbed and he has a black belt in karate, toughest guy amongst us. And I saw genuine fear in his eyes, like fear for his life and fear for people wanting, uh, things from him and, and all of a sudden being the center of attention. So it's easy when you're, when it starts with fear to sort of hide or, or convince yourself that you are somehow more special or than more special than, than anybody. And, and, and it's a real wicked game

to sort of play with yourself. And you gotta sort of, you're the only one who, who can extract yourself from it at some point. Um, I, I'm not nearly, uh, as well known as, as, as he is. And, and like I said, I'm not sure I could handle it. I think I'd become an ego monster. It's such an interesting question. Not too long ago, I saw the documentary 20 Feet from Stardom, which is fascinating, like all the backup singers. I saw it too. It's a great documentary.

Yeah, it was so interesting. But it felt like there was almost this thing, like if you're in the music industry and your job, the ultimate aspiration is to be as big and as as forward facing and at the front of the stage as you possibly can. As exposed, yeah. Right. But that's not necessarily everybody's definition of, quote, success in whatever domain, especially in the performing arts. Well, there's a leap between being exposed and being exploited. And most famous people or a lot of famous people don't know that they're exploiting themselves, you know, that they've, that they've crossed that line. That to me is a nightmare life. I wouldn't ever want to be so desperate for fame and attention that, um, that

I, I sort of make a big deal out of everything I do. In fact, I don't really even like talking about like, even right now, like, you know, to be honest with you, like, I don't mind it. I could talk about myself for days. I just don't like it. You know, like I'm at a point now where I really focus, try to focus on other people. I'm more fascinated. I mean, that's kind of how I view my job too, is I want to know people. I don't want, I'm a blank slate. Uh, I, I just want to get vibes off of people and understand who they are and how they live. And it just helps me you know when i'm trying to fashion a very real moment when i'm doing my work you know it just helps me understand the many variables i can sort of delve into you know there's there's so many different types of people and and yet there's something at the core of everyone that's wildly similar so to me that

that's a paradox that i'm i'm endlessly fascinated with i mean i love riding subway trains subway cars you know you just people don't have to say a word you get so much off their expressions just watching people behave is fascinating to me. Always has been, you know. Yeah. I mean, subways is like a whole lab study. It's on the subway on the way down to the studio this morning. We're hanging out like typically and, you know, rush hour, people are holding doors. Any other place, any other city, you know, like the conductor would have gone and said,

hey, please step back from the doorway. This subway, like you hear, hey, get out of the door yeah right right it's like and you're like anywhere else people would have been offended to be like what and new york's like no new york's very special that way i you know it's another reason i came back because i kind of missed the reality of everyday life and people, the collective consciousness that there is in this city. I really missed it. And yeah, you don't have to work hard to find it. I mean, it sort of always finds you, whether you like it or not, whether you're in the

mood for it or not, you know. And eventually people be, you know, if you, if you sort of look at life anthropologically, everybody sort of becomes a chimp, chimpanzee, you know, and, uh, you know, it's kind of fascinating in that regard, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I almost get the feeling that you would have been like a therapist or something like that. I probably would have been a therapist.

I'm still holding, you know, hey, listen. Second or third act. I have kids. I'm that actor who thinks his last job is his very last job. So I'm always trying to think of what I could possibly do. And, yeah, therapist comes up a lot because I do like helping people. But that's not easy. None of it's easy. It wouldn't be an easier way out. It would just be some way to keep working. Unemployment and I, we never gotten along. I've been so gentle towards

it. I've handled it with anger and I've handled it with that, with gentility and neither of those approaches work. I just, it's an incredibly awkward thing. So, you know, and I'm lucky in that I'm one of the more employed actors of my generation and still never enough. So, you know, I just like to keep busy. Sometimes I think about becoming a car dealer or a therapist. You could do all three simultaneously acting,

car dealer, just kind of rotate. And then you have your studies like informing one from the other one. That's right. Um, I wonder in, in curious also, I mean,

sort of like your lens on your own self-interest and also just the field, the career of acting is due at least in part to how you enter the profession in the first place, which it doesn't, it doesn't sound like you were the kid who was groomed from the early days saying, I want to act. It was almost like a lark. Yeah, and the great thing was my mom sort of from the very first moment let me know this is a fluke.

This is not normal. I got really lucky when I was a kid. I got discovered off the street essentially without any desire to be an actor. And I found myself with a large dramatic part in a popular Broadway play. And that was my first job. And then the first few years of my career were just, I was hot and I didn't know it. You know, I had a lot of heat. And then there was a time where I had to choose if I wanted to continue. And that was difficult, you know, realizing, oh, wait, you're an actor. And that was a fluke. And you're going to have to work at this and deal with periods of unemployment and deal with rejection and all those things.

How old were you, like, around then? About 17, 18. So still really young. Still really young, but about to sort of enter into adulthood and, you know, compete with adults. And so it was intimidating. It's still intimidating on some level. I feel so lucky and privileged to be doing this because I am a movie buff and I am a film fan and to even, you know, consider myself on some level of filmmaker is, is kind of, it just, it's always been humbling to me. And so I feel I owe it to that privilege not to be an asshole,

you know, and never to take it for granted and, and keep myself in check. So I do. And I, I think that's, uh, why I've worked so much. If I, if I can attribute anything, much. If I can attribute anything, it's that I sort of show up wanting to service the project, not myself, you know. And, yeah, try to do the right thing. I'm always curious also when you have someone who has spent decades in the field, whether it's acting, whether it's, I mean, really anything. Like you start out as a kid, especially. Then you enter the mid years of your life and then God willing, you're like past that.

You change as an individual. You change physically, you change emotionally, you change psychologically. And there's so much about any career that you enter, but I feel like especially performing arts where people kind of like this is your lane. You know, and you just like milk it for as long as you like. Don't change. Don't try and step out of it. But at some point, you as a human being change on a level where there's such cognitive dissonance to stay in it.

Like those moments are really interesting inflection points. Yeah, I'm very much there right now, actually. You know, lately, well, the diversity mandate, the sort of unwritten diversity mandate has been a wonderful thing for the industry and long overdue. And at the same time, I, you know, the sort of the white character actor is not necessarily somebody who works a lot anymore. I'm not a model and I don't, you know, attract people with my looks necessarily.

So, and parts for guys like me are going to sort of other ethnicities. And again, rightfully so. I just, what ends up happening is, you know, like the last three years, I've played overtly Jewish characters. And I could do that with the back of my head. It's ground I've covered a million times. And so, yeah, does it become stagnating, boring,

not challenging? Oh, yeah, does it become stagnating, boring, not challenging? Oh, yeah. So, but at the same time, daddy's got to work. And, you know, I don't buy into the whole bloated artist perspective. I do a job. I'm on this planet to do what I do. I'm lucky to do what I do. It's not a hard job. It's a pain sometimes to have. I always say like, I love being an actor. I kind of hate being a professional actor because you got to hustle so much and you have to, you know, skirt expectations and preconceived notions about yourself. And it seems lately that there's been a lot of that, you know, but at the end of the day, if I just keep focusing on working, uh, and life becomes so much more than being an artist, I don't live for my art. Um, cause that's really unhealthy. Uh, you know, setting yourself up for rejection and or approval based on what you put out rather than who you are. You know, I mean, I'm not my product, even though technically, for all intents and purposes, I am. Separating myself from that, it's a daily reprieve.

I have to remind myself every day that I'm more than my job. And it can be difficult when people go, you're the go-to rabbi, or, you know, have you ever done a Holocaust movie? It's time, you know? And it's like, please, someone rescue me from this reality. But again, you know, that would be ungrateful of me. And, you know, I try to bend myself in ways, even within those characters. I just want to surprise people. And if a character or a role is not allowing me to do that on paper, I try to do it within my performance. So it's the best I can do. The Apple watch series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

It's also the thinnest Apple watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple watch getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple watch series 10 available for the of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous

generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is?

You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. So if you do have, you really enjoy it, it's meaningful to you, but that's not your love. What is your love? What do you wake up in the morning and be like,

this is my jam, this is why I'm here? Well, yeah, I mean, my kids are pretty great. Having them has irreparably changed me for good or worse. I mean, it's hard being a dad, but it's the best thing I've ever done. My wife is wonderful. Being generous seems to be my purpose in life. Being generous with myself, helping people, that seems to be much more important.

Having perspective, consistently learning, coming from a place of I don't know anything for as much as I know. And I don't really, I can't understand a life where you get to a point where your hubris tells you that you know everything or you're smarter or you're smart enough. To me, there's just an unending search. And within the nothingness of existence, you know, there's so much. But coming to it from that perspective, saying ultimately, you know, is life meaningless? Perhaps, but transcending the meaninglessness with knowledge of random crap to me is really all our jobs because I think the smarter we all are, especially emotionally intelligent, the more emotionally intelligent

we all are, the better the world will be, the easier life can be. This country is interesting in the sense that we have so much abundance that we become chronically dissatisfied. It's never enough. And really my focus in life is being satisfied with the little tiny things. It sounds very Zen and I'm not. It's a goal I'm working towards, but I think awareness is the first steps. Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, the notion of generosity sort of like taking center stage, I feel like that's something that tends to touch down a lot of our lives a little bit later also. But I mean, curiosity with you as well is whether that was a seed that was planted early through your mom at all. Or I know you also had close relationships with grandparents.

And because you come from a family that survived the Holocaust and came here. Yeah. Like, was that transmitted to you in terms of values of the way you live your life? Yeah, I mean, yeah, a little bit. But really, you know, how do I put this? Profound self-hate will really humble you at a certain point. And I've got loads of it and still do and always have. And I've gotten a lot better. Only recently did I come to the place where I said, you know, I'm going to, I'm sick of worrying about myself and worried about myself my whole life. It's so self-involved and probably why I'm a good actor, but, you know, um, for me, uh, you know, having cancer was a big one. I had a nervous breakdown in 2000 and, uh, when was it? 2010. The day after I got married, I kind of freaked out, and it lasted for nine months.

I became full-on shut-in agoraphobic for nine months. That really did it. And I'm able to laugh at it now. But yeah, I had a spot of cancer, just a spot. And that was all around the same time also. All around the same time, yeah. In fact, the two are probably related because it was thyroid cancer. And so my thyroid wasn't working well.

And as a result, I was very, very depressed, wildly depressed. And then recently, my dad passing was a huge rite of passage that we all sort of have to go through at some point. And I took everything I could out of it, you know, in terms of asking why and answering with understanding rather than with rage and anger and hurt. Again, anthropologically looking at my dad passing away, you know, was fascinating to me. Uh, and it kind of made me, um, just so much more grateful for having had him and then everything I have with now that he's gone. Um, you know, I'm one of those guys that just believes that getting up after falling down is, is required. You know, you, I would never want to get stuck in a rut.

I, I'm still evolving, you know, I don't want to think I'm not. And, you know, there are certainly days where I freak out still. And, um, it's, it's,'s like I said it's a daily reprieve I got to sort of work on it every day or else I'll go completely insane and I'm only halfway there so far so yeah but you dropped the word which is awareness which I think is sort of like it's the heartbeat of everything well and acceptance too you know accepting life as a whole rather than what's happening to you in the moment. I'm a big believer in natural law, you know. How so?

Things are going to happen. So it's kind of like if it happens, that's the way it was supposed to be. If it happens, it happened. You know, like you can't, not everything is indicative of anything, you know. Things just happen. Change is constant. It's reliable. I know it sounds so like loose and thin, but I like it that way.

I'd rather that than have to follow a set of rules or have any preconceived notions about what life should be. Right. It's like the universal truth, really, I mean, for all of us. I think we all hate it because it means this Tibetan Buddhist teacher, Chögyam Trungpa, who I'll get the quote wrong, but said essentially, you know, the bad news is that you're falling. Nothing to stop you, nothing to hold on to. The good news is there's no ground. Right. There's no ground. It's true. You know, you can go as deep as you'd like, you know, and sometimes there's buffers along the way. There's family and friends support that kind of keep you floating rather than falling really fast. But yeah, I mean, we're floating. It's crazy.

This makes no sense. None of it makes sense. And to try to make sense of it is futile. Believe me, I did that for nine months of a nervous breakdown trying to figure out why the sun comes up and the moon replaces it. It's just futile. You got to transcend the meaninglessness. You have to, or else, if you're me at least. And it's about accepting it. It's accepting it. The best you can do with your time is influence other people to do the best with their time. And it's a domino effect. Thank God for mortality.

This got really deep, man. Just step right into the deep end of the pool. I just woke up. It's like off the red eye. A lot of coffee, man. I was like, just step right into the deep end of the pool. I just woke up. It's like off the red eye. A lot of coffee, though. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, curious also because you're, that same thing that basically opened the door to your career also introduced you to a guy who seems like, from the outside looking in at least, became a long-term mentor, Judd hirsch who had already had this astonishing long career and um i guess my curiosity is you know as we sit here we kind of like explore these ideas

like how that relationship over time has has affected you or influence you and the way that you see yourself you evolve within your career and just basically everything. Well, you know, the thing about Judd is there's just, uh, there's just a confidence rather than a preparation. You know, the first job I did, he played my father and he'd be on stage for two and a half hours straight monologues nonstop. He ended up winning tony award for best actor for that performance and he made it look easy and for him it was because he's just confident and because he understood what he understood he never pushed himself outside. He never challenged himself because he thought people will see it. It took me a long time. And only recently have I come to the point where I don't look like I'm

trying too hard, you know, where I'm, I don't look like I'm thinking, you know, I used to, now I look back at some of my older work and I'm like, God, you know, you're looking right at the camera. You're looking right into the camera. And people who watch me go, what are you talking about? No, you're not. And I'm like, no, I am though. I'm aware of that camera. And only recently have I been able to sort of lose myself. And it's a confidence thing that Judd, I think was born with. He'd probably say no, but he's just, he's like a bull. He's a big dude, physically, and loud, booming voice, naturally. I have the opposite. I'm not, I'm kind of, I've come from a very sort of, I'm a little pea attitude, you know? And so sort of winging it is way more fun than over-preparing.

And some actors desperately need to prepare, you know? I just, uh, I don't know. I just like doing it and I feel like that's enough. If you see that I love it while I'm doing it, and I have no idea what my lines are. No idea. I haven't even looked at them. I know that sounds terrible, but it works for me. No one's complained too much. But it's interesting. And it also kind of ties in with what you were saying before about the idea of getting really comfortable

stepping into, like, Joseph Campbell's abyss, this place where you don't know what's going to happen. Everything isn't completely and utterly dialed in. Right, you don't make choices. There's also, there's an electricity about that. Right, and recently working with Maggie Gyllenhaal on The Deuce was like, man, it was the quintessential chemistry experiment that never, that always kept giving

positive results. And her and I, we buzz. We just buzz together. And from day one, we knew it. We actively spoke about it. And we said, let's never work too hard on this because the harder we work to make the buzz happen, it won't happen. And it just happens that she's one of the greatest actors that ever lived and possibly and arguably the greatest alive, in my opinion, because I've seen her do things that are jaw-dropping. And she prepares like crazy. We just have different styles. But she comes from the place of let's not make choices. And she's not perfect at it.

There have been times where I've had to say to Maggie, hey, you're making choices. And she's obviously had to say that to me because that was sort of a comfort zone I relied on for a long time was make a choice. It's a lot more real, a lot more profound, a lot more touchable and feelable and accessible when you're just giving it your all in the moment. It's like sports. You can plan a play, but there's so many variables. You might as well just throw it, see what happens, and hope that the editor will use the right one.

You know, I did a movie a couple of years ago called Hail Caesar, Coen Brothers movie, which is very much about that. And in fact, it's very obviously about that. There's a moment at the end of the film where George Clooney delivers monologue and it's, you know, this was before they, you know, were shooting films from 18 different angles or a scene from 18 different angles. There was just the one shot on George Clooney and he had to nail it and he nails it, but he messes up his last line, flubs his last line and the whole thing goes to garbage. And you see all the crew react and he reacts with disappointment, but then you just try again.

And the second take isn't necessarily as good as the first, but, you know, ultimately it comes down to what seems wildly prepared and glamorous and polished is just someone doing their job. You know, it's just someone doing their, I do my job, I show up to work, they tell me to do something and I do it. And I try not to piss anyone off. I try to make it better. It's really, I just like keeping it extremely simple.

I also learned a bit of that. Like I took some Upright Citizens Brigade classes later in my career, like, and only a few years ago. And just learning not to think and to trust myself, hearing my own voice helps me be in the moment more. a series and been on that end, you know, writing, producing, that that was such an eye-opening experience for me. One that I may never, ever do again. Yeah. Because it was so, well, it took me past my limit, but. I mean, as a writer or just. As an everything, as a human being, you know. I mean, I did challenge myself. I put myself in four and a half hours of prosthetic makeup every day

and improv the whole thing. But I'm proud of that show. And then, you know, no one watched it and no one knows about it. And I go into rooms and I pitch other shows and people go, wait, you produced a show? And I'm like, yeah, it was on TV and everything. What's the Jones to step into the writing slash production slash direction side of it?

Well, because no one – I mean, is it to literally create the stories and the roles for you? I want to be someone – rely on the industry to recognize. hats and and pay us and be a hasidic jew and everything it'd be you know then i then i'm then i'm it's on me to sort of um upend that and so yeah uh it's pretty much why every actor starts writing is they they see something in themselves that perhaps the industry can't see or doesn't see or you know isn't isn't something that'll make money necessarily. You can't put a value on it. So I, I prefer at least trying.

I mean, you know, the show I created, the show Gigi Does It, that, that show was the one thing. And I'm proud of it. You know, I'm, I'm really proud of it. I actually did something, you know, it's, I worked my butt off and I, and it, and it was funny, you know, we achieved the goal, you know? So that's, that's fine. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing.

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Charge time and actual results will vary. and then film has really took predominance. And then it feels like the last five, six, seven years, maybe longer, maybe even since the Sopranos came to it, it profoundly changed what people thought was possible in terms of the stories that could be told and funded and produced in TV. And I feel like there's now, you have effectively all these studios who are doing stunning stuff on a smaller screen and pushing the edge on a way that that sometimes is harder to do on a large screen.

Although, interestingly, your your your new movie, Crown Vic, maybe argues the other thing. Well, yeah, I think it's a very powerful film because of its ambiguity, which is something that TV ambiguity toward its subject matter, which is something that TV has done really, really well now for a few years. And yet we're so used to the formula of a film having a happy ending, you know, three act structure conflict in the middle, you know, and here is a film that sort of takes a bit of a more television or shoving it down people's throat. The film is wonderfully ambiguous about a very, very touchy subject. I mean, police brutality. Right, set the scene a little bit. Yeah, so Crown Vic takes place in current day LA.

It's essentially a ride-along. That's why it's called Crown Vic because... The car. Car, yeah. A ride-along with a veteran police officer who's found his way into some trouble training a police officer on his very first day on patrol. And it happens to be what will probably end up the worst day on patrol that this kid will ever face. His very first day, everything that can go wrong and wild and unexpected sort of happens

and um he has to rely on this older police officer to guide him ethically through it all and the police officer is thomas, in a city full of crime and what it takes to be that person and how the job ends up changing those people. Luke Kleintank's character, who is the younger police officer on his first day, sort of has to very quickly decide where his ethics lay. And I would imagine it's a question that burdens every police officer. And he gets some hard truths in the process. He has to face some hard truths about his own family, because his father was a police brutality toward criminals.

I'm a big believer in mandatory psychological evaluations for police officers weekly all over the country, I think in service to them, not just to the community. It makes me very sad to see police officers brutalizing people on camera. It makes me sad for both parties. And the movie is about really that sadness, the situation we're all in right now especially with cameras sort of i mean police officers are forced to wear cameras themselves and the movie's gotten a very very strong reaction which is exactly what the filmmakers wanted joel souza who wrote and directed it it's exactly what he was looking for is, you know, he doesn't want to, there's no applause for the effort. There's, we don't want that. We want people to reevaluate their view of police brutality and police in a whole way. We're not asking anyone. The movie doesn't ask anyone to take sides.

I play the lackey police officer to a wildly brutal renegade cop who is doing the wrong thing. And I'm sort of there kind of encouraging him to do it and having a lot of fun with it, in fact. And even that character and even our characters are not, we're not given the typical movie bad guy vibe. You kind of see us break. Certainly Josh Hopkins, who plays the wild cop, he breaks at a certain point. You see him as a human being, a broken human being, sort of the psychological throes of being a police officer.

And in that way, very much needed. But again, it doesn't take sides, which angers a lot of people. And what's better than a controversial film? I mean, to me, those are the kinds of films I want to see. I'm not into melodramas or, you know, goofy comedies or horror movies. I'm into stuff that really pushes my buttons. And that's what this film does. It makes you think. you kind of have to, it doesn't,

you have no choice but to make, because the film doesn't take sides, you have no choice but to either remain ambiguous or become ambiguous or take a side. And so we leave it in the audience's hands. It's very much open for interpretation. Yeah. It's a disquieting film very much no doubt and you and like you said there's no standing ovation at the end and that's not the intention of it no the intention is sort of to to make you think um and to and to realize to a certain extent you know there's because we all we all do want to define clear like that we want a clear delineation we want a good and evil we wanted this and that you know um the reality is that's not life um right it's it's much more complex and we love to label people as good or bad right um and i i think i've yet to meet the human being who is not some way god elements of all of them and circumstance stress pressure violence whatever it may be

plays a huge role in what side emerges and how contained or off the rails it ends up going that's exactly that's a great summation of it i mean and it's grounded with incredible performances i mean thomas jane as ray is really jaw-droppingly, almost blood-curdlingly real and brilliant in that respect. He's just a tremendous actor, always has been. And so he just brings it to another level. Yeah. And for you, like you were saying earlier, one of your deep fascinations is really exploring the human condition and why we do what we do and behave the way we behave. Participating in that from the inside out must have been kind of fascinating too. Absolutely, yeah.

You know, you jump at a chance, or if you're me, you jump at a chance to make something that, you know, can be as profoundly disquieting as this film. There's just, you know, like I said, there's not a lot of that going on in film. There's a lot that happening in television. And so, yeah, you know, the fact that it's not episodic, the fact that it's a one piece, you know, hour and a half film kind of adds to its disquieting nature at the end of it. You're kind of like, well, that's it. The story doesn't continue. It's over. What happens to these police officers? You don't get to know. That's, that's up to you to figure out. Um, so yeah, it's kind of, kind of really, it just works. You know, it's so nice to make an independent. I've made so many independent films for next to nothing budgets that, you know, end up kind of just half disappointing or, you know.

This one, in my opinion, is through the roof great, especially knowing what was put into it to make it great. It achieves on all levels, in my opinion. I'm very proud to be in the film. Yeah. So as we zoom the lens out, we're sitting here recording this shortly before the movie premieres, actually, and you're out there talking about it and sharing it. But also, I would imagine at a point where you're also exploring what's next for me. And it sounds like you're also, as you shared earlier, sort of a bit of an inflection point in your life.

So the name of this is Good Life Project, you know. So within this container of the Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? Staying sober, clean. Accepting love. The truth of love that's that's what i work on and that's to me the most important thing you know you know it's it's so cheesy to say but it's uh and it's cliche i guess at this point but it's, uh, and it's cliche, I guess at this point, but it's like the Beatles lyric, uh, there's nothing you can do, but you can learn how to be you in time. It's easy. All

you need is love. And, uh, it's just wildly true. It's just, you know, in a time where we're all trying to figure out what the truth is and being told the truth is not what it is, that's just the basic truth. You know, you just, there's nothing we can do but learn how to be us in time.

So that's it. Thank you. You got it. Woo-hoo. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life?

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If there's something that you've heard in this episode that you would love to turn into a conversation, share it with people and have that conversation. Because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold. See you next time. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman.

I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk.