Good Life Project - Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor | Whole Brain Living

Episode Date: May 13, 2021

In 2008, Jill Bolte Taylor gave the first-ever TED Talk to go massively viral. A Harvard-trained neuroscientist, she told the story of her stroke that largely wiped out the entire left hemisphere of her brain, a horrifying experience and yet, the entire time, at her left hemisphere was shutting down, it was observing and analyzing the process in the way a scientist might, wondering at the moment by moment changes. She shared this deeply moving story, along with the 8-year journey it took to rebuild and bring her left half back online, enough to step back into her career and stand on maybe the most intimidating stage in the world and leave her audience both captivated and yearning, in an odd twist of circumstance, to experience even a glimpse of the profound expansive, connectedness and bliss Jill described as her right hemisphere took the reigns and all but eliminated and sense of separate self, otherness or separation. Despite the stunning success of her talk and book that followed, she still viewed them, in a way, as failures. Her ultimate goal was to invite people to explore reconnecting with that same sense of spaciousness, joy, empathy and compassion, to activate and embrace all parts of their brains, not just the head’s down, individualistic, achievement-oriented parts. People wanted to, but there was no clear roadmap, so she spent years deconstructing the process and distilling it into a powerful, insight-packed call to action in her new book, Whole Brain Living: The Anatomy of Choice and the Four Characters That Drive Our Life (https://amzn.to/2Q9MFtc), where she reveals the 4 characters living in your brain and how to harness them to live an extraordinary, intentional and present life.You can find Dr. Jill at:Website : http://www.drjilltaylor.com/If you LOVED this episode:You’ll also love the conversations we had with neuroscientists and innovator, Ryan Darcy who is doing stunning things with brain neuroplasticity : https://tinyurl.com/GLPDArcy-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So in 2008, my guest today, Jill Bolte-Taylor, gave the first ever TED Talk to go massively viral. A Harvard-trained neuroscientist, she told the story of her stroke that largely wiped out the entire left hemisphere of her brain, a horrifying experience. And yet the entire time as her left hemisphere was shutting down, it was also observing and analyzing the process in a way that a scientist might, wondering at the moment by moment changes. She shared this deeply moving story and her ability to observe with one side of her brain that was slowly turning off what was coming online on the other side, along with the eight-year journey it took to rebuild and bring her left half

back online, enough to step back into her career and stand on maybe the most intimidating stage in the world and leave her audience spellbound, captivated, and yearning in an odd twist of circumstance to experience even a glimpse of the profound, expansive connectedness and bliss that Jill described as her right hemisphere took the reins and all but eliminated any sense of otherness, separateness, self, or separation. And despite the stunning success of her talk and the book that followed that talk, Jill still viewed them in this odd way as a bit of a failure. Her ultimate goal was to invite people to explore reconnecting with that same sense of spaciousness and joy and empathy and compassion, to activate and embrace all parts of their brains, not just the

heads down, individualistic, achievement-oriented parts. People wanted to, but there was no clear roadmap. So she spent years deconstructing the process and distilling it into a powerful, insight-packed call to action in her new book, Whole Brain Living, where she reveals the four characters living in your brain and how to harness them to live an extraordinary, intentional, and present life. So enjoy learning all about the deeper experience and also going into these four characters and understanding better how to put them to work in our lives. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever.

It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous

generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk. It seems like we have a couple of similarities then because we both grew up by water. My dad was a psychologist for his entire career. And it sounds like your dad started out in one way, but then really ended up making the focus of his work psychology, mostly on the clinical side.

Exactly. Yes. He told me that he chose to be a man of the cloth because he felt that people felt safe to share with people, with men of cloth. And so he thought that that was an advantage to helping people help themselves. Oh, that's so interesting. So he ends up really pursuing working with people to try and elevate them in a lot of different ways, in a clinical setting, in other settings. And at the same time, I know you shared, you're very close with your brother growing up, sort of described yourselves as inseparable, yet also became aware at a pretty early age that you experienced life differently. Yes. We would have the exact same situation. Mom would be screaming at us, or he would think she

was angry, and I would think she was scared. And so we just interpreted emotions differently. We just interpreted experiences differently. We were very different, very different types of children. Yeah. I mean, I know later in life, you've shared that he ends up with a diagnosis of living with schizophrenia. Was that something that came as a surprise to him or to the family? Or at that point, had you all sort of already known that this has become something very different?

Well, we were all different. I was convinced by our teenage years that he was not normal. And when he was in the fifth grade, he was diagnosed with depression and he was placed on a antipsychotic antidepressant. And this was, you know, back in the sixties when this wasn't happening. And then when he was finally diagnosed, I, throughout our twenties, he's only 18 months older than I am. And throughout our twenties, I kept saying to my parents, if this were me, I would want you to get me help. And their response was, you're just an angry little sister. And it was like, no, there's a problem here. It's been 40, 30 years, and he's still in denial that he has an illness. So it's been a long, hard road for him, one of emotional torment with his delusional system, while the rest of us did our best to figure out how do we keep him safe?

How do we protect him? How do we give him shelter and food? And how do we actually help him when in our society help is hard to find? Yeah. I'm curious also, I mean, how does that experience affect a young Jill in terms of looking at the world and also eventually your interest in what you would actually want to pursue. Yeah, absolutely everything. I would not be the person I am today if it had not been for my brother and his diagnosis. And part of that is because as a child, because we were so different, I became very tuned into body language and facial language and intonation of voice and all those cues and how I interpreted that versus how he did. So I started on a path of really wondering, well, what's normal?

Because one of us clearly is not normal. And I have to say that because my parents were in denial of really having him have a severe problem, he was not diagnosed until he was, what, 31. And at that time, I was already in a PhD program in neuroanatomy, really trying to understand what is normal. But nobody studies normal. We all study what is not normal in order to try to figure out, well, how is that different from what we would say is normal? So I studied schizophrenia because of his diagnosis, but also because nobody was going to teach me normal except for my education. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting how our life courses, the things that we end up pursuing can be so influenced by these things. But at the same time, I often wonder, you were

dropped into this scenario, into this family where your experience was profoundly influenced by the way that you saw you and your brother navigating the world differently. And yet at the same time, I also wonder, is there something in you, was there some sort of innate impulse that also was just fiercely drawn to the study of the mind, the inner life, the brain as well? Because many other people will have had their version of a similar scenario and not only not run towards deepening into understanding it, but run in the other direction. Right. You know, I think that's very true. My mother would tell you I wanted to grow up to be a race car driver. I liked speed. I grew up in Indiana. We had friends at the Indianapolis 500.

I thought, yeah, I'm a girl. Why not be the first? And my mother said no, because she would never have a moment of peaceful peace in her heart worried about me. So I think that that was a piece of it. And at the same time, I loved anatomy. And I would pick up roadkill and take them over to my aunt's across the street. And we would dissect creatures that we would find because she wanted to grow up to be a doctor, but she was of the era that that wasn't going to happen. And so she was kind of a frustrated physician. And so I would bring these creatures in and we would explore the anatomy. And was so beautiful and she was so fascinated by it. And I just learned that, oh my gosh, this is really amazing. And I remember when I was in

the fifth grade, my teacher had us all drop our arms down by our sides for about, you know, 10 seconds and then look at your hand and those little veins would pop out. And I thought, oh my gosh, it's organized. It's organized in structure. And that means I can learn it. And prior to that, I just felt like, you know, I was a mishmash, a big old soup. Everything's flopping around in there. We have no idea, right? You can't see it. And I just became absolutely drawn to and fascinated and then put on top of that my brother's delusional system and it was like well this brain is this phenomenal thing and it was profound to me that it was probably in the way the brain cells were wired that was the difference between me and my brother when he's the closest thing to me that exists in the universe.

So what is it? And it had to go to the cells and how they're wired. Yeah. I mean, that makes a lot of sense, the way that you sort of follow this progression of just deep interest. And then clearly there was a focus, there was a way to apply this immediately in the context of your own life. It's interesting, you used the word normal earlier in the conversation. And I know I've been curious

around the languaging around not just schizophrenia, but also various conditions of the mind. And I've seen an evolution from normal, abnormal to typical, atypical. And I'm curious about the evolution of language around states of mind and especially things that we consider diseases or syndromes or illnesses. I'm curious where you are with sort of like the conversation in your head and whether you've explored or thought about that in any meaningful way. Well, I certainly think about the evolution of the mammal. Because as I think about, you know, what's a reptile, what's a reptile do, which is essentially our brainstem, and just the beauty of life. I mean,

I'm a cellular neuroanatomist. I love cells. I think cells are the most magnificent, amazing, phenomenal, unimaginable, and unbelievable thing that exists. And so I'm just a fanatic about just the microbe, much less the multicellular organism. And how does it change from one species to another species? And then, you know, what's this crowning glory of the human, which is this higher cerebral cortex, in addition to the limbic system, emotional system underneath, which is on top of that reptilian brainstem. So I spend a lot of time thinking about that.

And I spend a lot of time thinking about how does our brain create our perception of reality, such that what I experience would be defined as normal compared to my brother's thinking that is skewed to a unique perception that is not shared by some 70% of people. But at a medical level, in order for anything to be declared as normal, only 70% of us have to fit inside of that particular bell curve. 70% is not that much over 50. So, you know, as a gross anatomist, someone who cuts up cadavers and teaches cadaver lab, we find everything skewed away from normal. How many heart, how many vessels are coming off of the heart? Everything goes in there. In's just nothing is the same,

especially when we're talking about inside the body and inside the brain. Well, and then take that one step further into behavior. And I think that if you look at what is normal behavior, boy, did that really get changed in our perception over the last five years. So how do we define normal and how much of what is not being seen or being perceived as normal, how much of it is actually in the outer boundaries, but we don't know because we're being politically correct or we're being quiet? Yeah, I think it's interesting. I imagine we've seen a lot of that in the evolution of how people classify, categorize, and diagnose folks who are on the autistic spectrum over the last generation

or so also where there's typical, there's atypical. But if you look a generation ago, the exact same behavior was just, it was completely differently described and it was thought of as being, well, it's just, there's no spectrum disorder involved here. This is just the behavior of a child or a person who sees the world differently, is antisocial, whatever it may be, rather than, no, there's something going on in the brain that is altering the way that they interact with the world around them that can be related to another set of experiences and ways to understand it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that as a society, we didn't want to label and we didn't want to medicate. And then all of a sudden,

we wanted to medicate and we wanted to label. And it's like, where does that begin and where does that end? And ultimately, it's all about this beautiful brain and which cells are communicating with which cells, with which chemicals and in what quantities. And we're all different. We're all the same and yet we're all different. So, you know, am I normal? Well, there are certain things about me that are very normal. Are there things about me that are not normal? I live on a boat six months out of the year. I'm thinking that's probably not what most people would describe as normal. And yet, when you look at me, it's normal based on my interests or my past and where my heart is and where my mind is and where my spirit is.

The context is important in all of this. Yeah. You end up emerging from school and then deepening into your studies and building a career in the world of neuroscience when, I guess it was the age of 37, you experienced this massive brain hemorrhage in the left hemisphere of your brain that you have described in a TED Talk that came out, I guess, in 2007, if I recall correctly. 08, 08, right. And you describe it in this way of, which I think is what made it so fascinating for so many people of literally like what remained online of the analytical functioning rational sort of like a diagnostic side of your brain, viewing this catastrophic incident from the lens of a scientist and a teacher and being on the one

hand, you know, experiencing this yourself in real time, and then also deconstructing and trying to being fascinated by what was actually happening inside of you. Yeah, when I think about, as I think about anything, at the time, I was teaching gross anatomy of head and neck for a whole semester. So I know where wires come in and go and who's talking to whom and which cells they are. And so through that filter of watching my inability in the external world, like language going offline or paralysis in my right arm, or even standing in the shower and falling against the wall and realizing I could not distinguish the boundaries of the atoms and molecules that made up me versus the wall, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, this circuit is kaput. And, you know, circuit by circuit by circuit, because every ability we have, we have because

we have brain cells performing that function. And if they go offline, then we simply don't have that function anymore. It's not like we're unconscious unless those cells go offline. And for me, I was conscious for four hours of this process of deterioration. And how could I be anything but fascinated? I mean, it was like all the things I had learned in my books for decades was now playing itself out inside of my own head. And by the time I did pass out and my left brain had completely shut down, because for four hours I was waffling between shifting into the right brain connected to all that is no identification of self and then

identification of self and I have to get the job done. When that was over, all I had was the present moment. I, the, the left brain was gone. So, um, so, so that was, uh, you know, a real interesting on top of it all experience of, well, what is going on in the right brain? What's it like? What's it doing? How does it think? How does it feel? What's it care about compared to the left brain, which is sending all these literally millions of fibers to the right brain to inhibit it? So yeah, no, it was quite a lesson the hard way. And I'm just very grateful that I survived. Yeah. And I know you've described at least part of that experience when the left hemisphere really, what you're still conscious, but the left hemisphere is really largely offline for the most part where you're, and you've described it as this state of just profound expansiveness, a loss of a sense of identity separate from others, separate from the universe, which is similar in so many ways to the way that people describe transcendent experience. After you shared that talk, I know there was an eight-year journey back from that place

to effectively rebuild, reactivate, bring the entire left hemisphere back online. One of my curiosities is that you describe that state as so blissful, so the place that was desired to exist within. When you then have to do eight years of effectively hard, cognitive, emotional, intellectual brain training labor to rebuild that side of the brain, what motivates you to keep effectively doing that? Because you're also simultaneously pulling yourself out of this state that you find so extraordinary. You are absolutely right. There was this moment where I realized that I was 37, I was in good physical shape. I exercised regularly.

And I knew that I had not died. I was stable. And I would probably live for decades in this condition. And I thought, you know, I'm going to have an eternity when I pass of this blissful euphoria. I'm not dead. And if there's any information or lesson to be brought back to people who are hounded by their left brain pain, the emotional pain of our past, then it would be worth the effort for me to try. Now, it was just a willingness to try. I had no guarantee that I would get anything back.

Language is very difficult. Reading is outrageously difficult. Just being a normal left brain is a painful process from my right brain experience because there's a group of cells in the parietal region of that left brain that defines the boundaries of where we begin and where we end. We have a holographic image in our brain because of that. And I didn't have that anymore. So my perception of self was big and vast and open and connected to all that is, and who doesn't want

that? And then language, you know, I can say, I can give you a whole bunch of colors and say, where does red begin and pink end? You know, and you'd probably be a lipstick expert if you were looking at that. And you might say, well, I think this one is red. And I would say, no, I think it's two over because, you know, to me that's red. And so we're, we're trying to agree and negotiate what is what in the external world so that we can actually communicate about it. So we're taking a big picture and we're minimizing it and saying, okay, now we can use language. But how does one really use language to describe a sunset

when you know in your heart what it feels like? So it was very difficult, painful to come back into the left brain. But I made an agreement with myself that I would recover only enough of my left brain skills and character personalities over there to appear to be normal enough that I could communicate with other people in a normal way. And yet, I exist and live in my right brain connected to all that is, which is, of course, is why I live on a boat on a lake in a cove. And my friends are all the creatures in the life around. I agreed to recover enough to be able to communicate to the external world in a language and a way that other people are comfortable receiving information. And so that was my negotiation with self. But I will say that

as that left brain thinking part of my brain came back online, that personality wanted to take over and be the boss again and start driving me back into the normal craziness of normal living. And it's like, no, no, we love you. I'm glad you're back. But no, I have a different value structure now. I care about other things. Don't shoot if we need them. Y'all need a pilot? Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. What you're describing is in the context of this traumatic experience that took years to sort of like devote yourself to recover

from. But if you zoom the lens out in the context of the way that, you know, like people are generally going about their lives, especially recently, but even before then, you know, the aspiration for so many when, and I wonder if the reason that that original TED talk was so explosive in its reach and so deeply resonant was that so many people heard you described that state of, you know, both of, you know, in horror, what was happening, but now seeing you on stage, they feel okay about that part of it. And the part where you describe- Happy ending.

They assume that, well, right. I'm giving you the last page of the book right here. So it's okay. But at the same time, you're describing this state, which so many people who feel trapped in this heavily stressed out, rigid, rules and goals and aspiration driven existence, like really like it's, it's punch list from day to day when they hear you describe the part of the experience that is expansive and transcendent and connected and hyper present. That sounds to so many people like, how do I get more of that? And I know you've reflected on that Ted talk. And I think that was a big part of what the invitation was at the end of it, inviting people to explore that side of their existence. And you've shared how reflecting on the talk, as popular as it was, that that invitation never really caught with a level of traction and application that you had hoped. Right. Yes. As great as that TED Talk made it out into the world, that was the point. But I wanted people to treat one another with a higher level of reverence because life is this magnificent, beautiful thing. And we share this thing and we are one family. And although

people started treating me with that level of reverence, which was very different from how people treated me before, it didn't translate to one another. And so for that, in my heart, it was a miss, because I wanted us to be that way communally, not just as, oh my gosh, this woman had a stroke, she had this experience, and oh my gosh, I'd like to have a piece of that, but isn't she amazing because she had it? Because I didn't care about the me. I had all, you know, I said goodbye to the me on the morning of the stroke. I wanted it for all of us. And, um, and that, that was the hard part for me. Yeah. Yeah. So when you emerge from that and you, you've done the work to sort of be able to step back into your life at a level that feels good to you, but also noticing

that, but this bigger thing, it hasn't happened the way that I hoped it happened. And that was a primary driver of me actually stepping on stage and sharing this story. You kind of have a choice at that point. You can just accept that, well, I did my part and let me go back to my work. That wasn't your choice. No. So, um, I, I'm a woman on a mission. Um, of course, you know, this is my passion. I know you're a large part of, of your work is helping people find that, that spark that drives their passion. And, um, I know I have precious little time on this planet, even if I get another 50 years, it's precious little time. So how do I finish? How do I do the next step? And over 300,000 people have written and said, how do I do that? How do I get that? How do I get from this crazy left brain

into that peaceful right brain? And I just didn't have an answer. I didn't have an answer because I got whacked out of the left brain, boom, land in the right brain. And then I could tell you how to rebuild the other way back. But how to get there, it was a mystery for me. But I kept searching for some understanding of trying to figure out a way. And then I was giving a presentation. And I said to the audience, you know, it's so lovely to talk to people now about the brain, because in this day and age, people love to hear about it. 20 years ago, people did not, you know, they'd look down. It was like, oh, my God, we're talking about the brain, you know, this squishy thing.

And it was like, I said, it's so lovely now because generally my audiences have language. They understand that we have an amygdala and we have a hippocampus. And but the fact is that we have two amygdala and two hippocampi. And there was this audible gasp. And I thought, oh my gosh, no wonder we are confused and more confused. We think there's one emotional system. And that was the key to me that people just don't understand the anatomy of our emotions and the anatomy of our thinking cognitive minds. And if people could understand that, then they would be able to know, okay, if I want to go find my bliss, well, I need to step into that part of my brain. And all of a sudden, the differentiation of understanding the brain

just became so clear. And it was like, yes, this is a way that a normal person in our society can find their way throughout their brain. Yeah. And that leads to this model, which I think is kind of fascinating in its simplicity in terms of it makes it accessible, like the idea of you literally have four characters living in your brain. It actually, when I first heard you introduce the model, funny enough, the Pixar movie Inside Out popped into my head where there's sort of these little characters and a control center in the brain of the show. And it's like, okay, so who are we sending in? Exactly. What's happening here? And who are we sending in to handle this job?

They were really, really close in having it from an anatomical, but they missed it a little. But I loved the show because it really gave us a way of thinking about, well, who's who inside of ourselves? And what choice do we have at any moment. And I'm a complete advocate that we have the power to choose moment by moment who and how we want to be. And that's how I ended that TED Talk. And by knowing what your choices are, the anatomy of the choices, then you learn about the four characters that come from that. And all of a sudden, I make sense to myself.

You make sense to me. They make sense to us. And now we have a new language to communicate with, and it just simplifies everything. I want to dive into those four characters that you described also. But before we get there, there's a common fallacy about the way that brain works that I think most of us hold or have held, which is we've got these two hemispheres and the left side does X and the right side does Y. And they're independent, except for this weird little thing, the corpus callosum. But they're basically, they're responsible for two totally separate things. And when you start from that point anatomically, it not only is, I guess, wrong anatomically, but we're hearing language. And the left brain has language centers and the right brain has language centers.

So they're going to process the sound, but different parts of the sound. So the left hemisphere is going to hear dog. Dog is a sound. Dog is a word. And so my brain, left brain, hears dog and it says dog and I know what a dog is as a thing. My right brain is listening to the inflection of the voice and the intonation that I'm using. So let's say I'm going to say, I love you. I love you. So your left brain is saying, I understand. I love you. And I know what that means. And the right brain is going, but she sounds angry and anger doesn't go with,

I love you. So there's something askew there. So the two hemispheres are working together, but in different ways, but also let's say a thousand things. There's more than that at a moment, I'm sure. But let's say in an instant, a thousand things are going on inside of the head. And sometimes the left brain might have 600 things going on, and the right brain's having 400 of those things. So they're always both contributing to the experience, but they're very specific things. And then what say do we have in which hemisphere we actually want to experience? And we do know that the two hemispheres are very different in how they process the information. And so if I'm going to have a me, an individual, I'm a single solid separate from all the atoms

and molecules, which is what my left hemisphere does, one of the things, then that's going to be a focus of all information coming in on the me, on the I, where the right brain doesn't have that experience. So it doesn't focus on an individual, it focuses on all of us as a collective whole. And they're both turned on all the time and they're both communicating with one another. And we end up with these two emotional systems and these two thinking brains that based on how they process information and what we know about them anatomically, they have very specific skill sets that we can then perfect and utilize, pick and choose. Yeah. I mean, the way you describe

it also, it sounds like in order for us to assign or experience meaning in any particular interaction or like if a stimulus shows up, to get to a point from stimulus to meaning, we need everything. Well, yes, because meaning is going to be a big picture, right? A stimulus is going to be all the little details. You have to have the details to find the meaning. To have the meaning, it helps to know the details, but you can still have meaning in absence of any action.

Yeah, that makes sense. Talk to me about these four characters. Okay. So thank you. So we all have all of these. This is just based on the anatomy of the brain. And I'm going to use a little model here just because it helps me remember everything I want to share with you about them. So the human brain divides into two hemispheres, the left hemisphere and the right hemisphere. And by the way, for those listening, by the way, you're holding up a model of a brain which is sort of split in two different ways. So that's what we're looking at here. Yes. And there's that structure, which you mentioned, the corpus callosum. And the corpus callosum is made up of some 300 million axonal fibers, which run from

the left to the right or the right to the left to those comparable cells. So the language centers are listening to one another as they decide who's being dominant in any moment. So as you look at the two hemispheres, they each have emotional tissue. So our emotional tissue is called the limbic system, and it is evenly divided so that each hemisphere has an amygdala, a hippocampus, and primarily an anterior cingulate gyrus. So these are structures that are specifically designed for our alarm, alarm, alert, alert. So emotionally, if information comes in through our sensory

systems, we have two alarm, alarm, alert, alert. The left hemisphere is a machine that processes in another time other than the present moment. The right hemisphere processes information in the present moment. So the left hemisphere brings information in from the external world and immediately through that amygdala asks the question, am I safe or is this a threat? The right hemisphere does the same thing, but it says, is this a threat in the present moment? Is that bus going to hit me? Do I need to jump out of the way? The left hemisphere says, is what I'm perceiving a threat that I have ever seen and stored

in my past memory banks? So is there, is just based on information from the past. As soon as the two limbic groups of cells do that, we have two separate consciousnesses. One consciousness in the right brain of the present moment, and one in the left hemisphere that now goes into a past, a present, and a future. So it becomes a temporal machine. It's a bridge across time. So we end up with these two very different halves of our brain working together in synchronicity, communicating with one another, one about the present moment and one about some other time other than right here, right now. So if we just look at

that left hemisphere, the thinking group of cells is added on top of the emotional cells. So the emotional cells of the left brain are looking at all the emotions from our past pain. I feel resentment today because of something that happened in the past. I feel guilty today or shame today because of something that has already happened. So that's being processed in the left emotional cells. Then through evolution, add on our human neocortex, and now we have thinking that is able to think about and process information, make judgments, organize it, categorize it, systemize everything, have language to speak about it, all in that left thinking

hemisphere. So what I realized when I went to recover that hemisphere, because I lost all of my pain from the past, that was, I have to say, delightful. But I also lost all my memories from the past in my thinking brain. And then I had to rebuild those. And it was kind of like my mother would say, Jill, what would you like for lunch? Do you want tuna? And I'd go tuna, tuna, tuna, what's a tuna? And then she'd describe it and I'd say, oh yeah, tuna. And then she'd say, well, this

grilled cheese. And I'd go grilled cheese, grilled cheese. And I would open that file and then she'd say, you know, squash soup. And I'm going, soup, squash soup. What's that? I couldn't find it. So she would, she would give me that. And then I would reopen that file too. So it was like I was disconnected from these cells and what they did have. So character one, if you take that brain and I'm taking that human brain now and I'm splitting it apart again, and I'm have. So character one, if you take that brain and I'm taking that human brain now and I'm splitting it apart again, and I'm going to call character one that left thinking. And the left thinking part of our character is our A-type personality. It goes to work, it gets things done, it organizes and categorizes, it judges, critically analyzes everything. It thinks sequentially, it knows the

hierarchy and where I stand on the hierarchy. It also has that group of cells that define the boundaries of where I begin and where I end. So I'm a separate entity from the universe around me. And with that goes a personality. And I wasn't expecting that to happen, but this personality came back online and said, well, I'm want to be back in charge. And I'm going, no, I don't want that. I want you, I need you, but I don't want you to be the boss because you, it valued materialism and it valued, um, money. And it was And it was my sense of value based on the external world. And it was like, I knew I had value without somebody having to tell me that. So I call that character one. And that character is, we all have it. And the question is, well, do you recognize that part

of yourself? Do you recognize that part of yourself? Yeah, absolutely. Of course you do. It's punctual, right? And it wants everybody else to be punctual too. It's right and wrong and it's good and bad and it gets things done. And then character number two is going to be the emotion of our past. Little character two is the emotion of the left brain. So that's all of our pain. And we all have all of that pain. This is our emotional trauma from the past, right inside of here. If I take out this brainstem and show you in the brain, this insular cortex right in here, this is where craving happens. So this is the emotion of our addictions on top of everything else. So, so a part of us that it's also the alarm,

alarm, alert, alert. So if information comes in and somebody makes me angry and I'm angry about something that I usually get angry about because I have a pretty low threshold for anger, then that's my little character too saying, no, I don't feel safe. That's not okay. You don't look like me. You don't sound like me. You don't dress like me. You're different from me. So I have to push away and rage against you. And among other things, that is the circuitry of our racism. And right now that's just going berserk in our society, because society is actually supporting our ability to let that character yell and scream. So that's character two. You recognize that part of yourself, Jonathan? Indeed, I do. I'm curious about that also. A lot of the frame was on relating it to past,

you know, to trauma. Would this also be anticipatory? Yes, and expectant. So, I'm anticipating something's going to be great, like a wedding, the perfect wedding, right? A preconceived notion. And then one little thing goes wrong, and my perfectionist just gets very unhappy now, and I become a bridezilla. So, it is. It is, I want something to be different than what something actually is. And isn't that reason enough to get mad and rage and be hurt and feel everything, you know, is horrible and life's not fair. And that is exactly what that group of cells, that left emotional system is all about. Now, it also feels happy, but happy is then measured on the context of,

is the external world providing me with it in a manner in which I can feel happy? So that my happiness becomes dependent on my experience in the external world and how I judge that. Got it. So it's very relational. A lot of it is how am I existing in the context of the world around me? Exactly. Exactly. So the left brain is this instrument that allows us to interact with the external world. And we get our value based on how we're perceived by the external world and it values wealth and toys and, you know, whatever else, however I look, you know, my beautiful spouse, my beautiful children, all of those external factors is how that left brain processes its own level of perfectionism and its own value.

Got it. Okay. So now let's talk about the other part. Okay. So the other part is going to be the right hemisphere. And the right hemisphere is this right here, right now experience. So it's not about me, the individual that's over there in that left brain. It's not about judging right and wrong or good and bad. It's just about the experience of the present moment. And since I don't have the boundaries that define me as an individual, I am as big as the universe. I'm atoms and molecules. I'm alive. Oh my gosh, I'm alive. Imagine that. I mean, we have zero understanding about how life really happens. And so it has an emotional system. And the emotions of the present moment right here, right now, Jonathan, is pretty

much a perfect moment. Wouldn't you agree? Absolutely. I mean, if you just stop worrying about all the things that aren't right, right, with the left brain, it's a pretty good moment. We're breathing, we're healthy, we have shelter, we have loved ones. I mean, life is like this amazing thing. So the emotion is experiential. What does it feel like? How much humidity is in the air? My right brain is perceiving that. How does my clothing feel against my body? How does my headset feel as it's squishing on my head? What's it feel like inside against my body? How does my headset feel as it's squishing on my head? What's it feel like inside of my body to be where I am, to be with someone I love, to be doing something? And it's an adrenaline junkie because adrenaline is a right here, right now, boom,

hit my amygdala in my right hemisphere. And it's like, yeah, this is exciting. Yeah, I like the way this feels. Yeah, I want more of this. So it's a machine that is all about play because it is what it is. It's experiencing what it is. It is creative because it doesn't have the judgment of the right, wrong, good, bad of the left hemisphere. So it's creative. Chaos is the very first step in the creative process. So it's good with chaos. It's good with a mess. It's good with no schedule because the left hemisphere wants to organize and have a plan and get things done on time. And to the right brain, it's like the day unfolds moment. I might be doing that another moment.

I might do something else and I'm not attached to it. And because I'm not an individual, I don't have the ego center in my right hemisphere. I perceive myself as connected to other people. I am a part of a tribe. And so what I care about is about the we. I care about how do we find our food? How do we feel? How do we do whatever we are doing?

I care about the collective. What is our relationship with the planet? What is our relationship to the climate change and the future of our humanity? So that's character three. Right here, right now, playful, creative, interested, curious. And then character four is the thinking tissue of that right hemisphere, the thinking tissue. And the consciousness of the thinking tissue is one that has no boundaries. Everything is at peace. Everything is good because it is what it is. I am filled with

gratitude because I exist at all because you exist at all. I'm just good with whatever the circumstance is. I love what is because, oh my gosh, I'm alive and able to have this experience. And I feel this incredible sense of deep inner peace because I know at that circuitry inside of my right thinking tissue, I am connected to all that is. And light, there is love and prayer is in the moment that allows me to reach this space. Meditation, the ultimate goal is to reach this space where I'm just good with whatever is. I just feel incredible gratitude, a humbleness for the time that I have, incredible love and support and nurturing. How do I help others? How do I nurture others? Because

we are one human family. And I'm just so clear without that left brain saying, no, it's about me and mine. And I'm an individual separate from that. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all I'll need a pilot. Flight risk. Yeah, I mean, the way you describe it is, you know, as I hear you walk through each of these four different quadrants or characters or states, immediately I'm drawn to the character three and four, you know, because I'm thinking that's the way I want to live.

That's the place I want to exist. That's how present and joyful and expansive and open and connected I want to feel. And yet, zooming the lens out, it also occurs to me that, but nothing gets done in life if that's where you live. You're absolutely right. That's why I had to recover. Right, right, right. And there's this analogy that pops into my head where I'm thinking it sounds similar in a lot of ways to the notion of the conversion and diversion phases of creativity and innovation, which is you need it all in order to really function in a healthy, generative, and constructive way in the planet. Right. It's big picture. You have to have big

picture and you have to have details. And people say, well, why on earth did you come back? And it's like, well, if I wanted to be, that's a totally non-efficient, non-effective way of being. It's fantastic. But you have to have the other skills in order to be a functional human being. So the ultimate goal becomes whole brain living. It's like, how do I then learn, first of all, what is the relationship like between those four different parts of your brain inside of your own head? What's that character? What's that conversation look like? And as you say, automatically, I want to have more three and more four, but there are a lot of strong character one alpha type personalities who are left thinking who they think character three is a complete waste of time.

Right. It's like you're a dreamer. Exactly. You're a dreamer. You get nothing done. And it's like, I'm the pause from the push. And as a biological creature, I have to have both. I have to push, push, but I also have to pause and allow whatever the push was actually manifest itself in the bigger picture, or it was pretty minute. And I want to be effective. So the idea of whole brain living becomes these four characters all having very specific personalities. I encourage people to name, give names to each of those four different characters so that each of them can own their identity. And then you start having these kinds of conversations in your head where it's like, okay, well, you know, I'm out on the lake and I'm paddleboarding away and a storm starts coming in, right? And I'm looking out there and I'm just in my four bliss, having a wonderful time. It's beautiful. You know, the drama in the sky, it's gorgeous. And then my little character three says,

I love it out here so much. I just love this whole experience. And then my little character three says, I love it out here so much. I just love this whole experience. And then my character one starts coming on and saying, you know, those look like thunderstorms. It's clear that we're going to have a lightning storm. So we might want to think about going in. And my little character three is going, well, let's wait until we see some lightning first, right? And little character two's going, well, you know, I'm not very happy about this because, you know, if this paddleboard all of a sudden deflates, then I'm like stuck out here in the water and I got to swim and then there's going to be lightning. And my character four is just watching the whole conversation going, you know, if we

live, we live. And if we die, we had a heck of a run. You know, I mean, it's this conversation. And all this material is doing is helping people differentiate those different characters inside of themselves so that they can actually create really healthy patterns in relationship with me. And that gives me the power to choose moment by moment who and how I want to be in the world.

And to me, that's personal freedom. Yeah. I mean, the model gives you that ability to be more intentional, you know, to understand, huh, you know, okay, so I've got these four different things where who needs to come online right now? Who would I want to bring online right now? A curiosity around this is, have you seen that most folks by by the time they reach adulthood and they're moving through the world, largely default to any one, two, three of these characters, and it becomes almost their identity level default state. And in doing so, does that have the effect of suppressing the others without even realizing what's happening? Absolutely. That is exactly what happens. And it's really true for any of the four characters, because if I'm just running my alpha circuitry and I'm all about get it done and do my to-do

list and be busy, busy, and I value my busy, busy, then I perceive anything short of my busy, busy as a waste of time. Then, you know, that's how I'm going to treat other people as well. If I don't show up as valuing my own four characters, it's really hard to value someone else's. But Jonathan, how many people have come to me and said, you know, I'm a right brain and my husband, he's a left brain. So together we make a whole brain. And it's like, well, it kind of works like that, but you're missing the point, you know, because ultimately, and I believe this, you're the kind of fellow who can appreciate this, is to me, the evolution of humanity is whole brain living. And what we're doing is working the kinks out between the new tissue of thinking in the left

hemisphere with the emotional below, the same thing, the thinking in the right brain, the new tissue of thinking in the left hemisphere with the emotional below, the same thing, the thinking in the right brain, the new tissue with the emotion below, and then the thinking to thinking brains and the emotion to emotion brains so that we do have that power to choose at any moment who and how we want to be in the world. What is appropriate in this moment? What is my next best choice in who I show up as? I'll give you an example. Let's say we've all done it. You walk into a room and you just interrupted a couple from fighting, right? Tension in the room. We feel it with our right brain. So character one might want to come on and say, what's wrong? Can I help? Is

there anything you need for me to do to help you? Character two might come on and say, yeah, you know, and just dive into whatever the bad was because misery loves miserable company. So let's all go be miserable together. Character three might come in as playful and create a humor, say something witty in order to kind of distract the air and take the lightning out of the air and, and, and, you know, so that we can kind of get back together again and move on again. And then character four might step in and just say, you know, I'm here if you need me and I support you both and I'll be right outside, you know. So I could in any moment come in as any of my four characters and I call this a brain huddle when I get all four characters together to actually have that conversation about what is our, as a collective

whole, what is my next best move of those four options? And, you know, ultimately we have to navigate the situation because we don't know what's going to come at us and which character are they going to be in. And once you really get to know your four characters, you start spotting these four characters in everyone else. And then you interact with people differently or not based upon how you learn to work with yourself and to navigate your own reality. And that makes a lot of sense to me. And I think it's an incredible aspiration.

The other thing that occurs to me is that- Aspiration. I love that. I'm working towards it. I'm like, I need to figure out how to bring all of these online at the appropriate moment in time and not just become a disaster of the wrong thing at the wrong time. But zooming the lens out, part of me is also saying, but isn't there a meta skill that has to be cultivated before any of this matters, which is awareness? Awareness. Don't we need the skill of awareness, both our inner awareness of what's actually happening and awareness of our external world to even be able to understand which of these makes most sense to bring online right now?

No, you're absolutely right. First, I have to be willing. I think willingness comes first and then awareness. And if I'm willing to become more aware and to just observe myself, and then I can observe, I don't have to engage, I don't have to act it out, but just becoming aware. And, you know, one of the most interesting things for me was, as this material was being put down and sent out to the editor, was the awareness that Carl Jung's four archetypes fall exactly on top of this material.

And I thought, well, of course it does. How else would we have an archetype? We have an archetype because we have a group of cells inside of our brain. And throughout, you know, eons of time, these four characters have been shifted based on the environment and external circumstances for the normal development of humanity and not even counting technology and the impact that that has had on our brain. But the awareness unveiling the unconscious brain, and technically three of our characters are unconscious and it's like, no, they don't have to be unconscious. Imagine if we had a total conscious awareness of what we are and what we can do and how they interact and therefore what we can be, should we train ourselves in order to do that? And to me, that's the ultimate goal. Yeah. I don't disagree with any of that. And I wonder if a lot of the skills of the mind that you see in very often ancient Eastern traditions, whether meditation, pranayama, breathing, all the things that would

regulate your ability to touch down into that space of becoming aware and being able to direct your attention. Those are really skills that allowed people to access these states on a more persistent basis without even understanding like this is what's really happening. Yes, I agree. And as you look at, you know, if you look at what drugs do, drugs are turning on certain circuitries by inhibiting other circuits of neurotransmitters. So, you know, whether we're looking at drugs or meditation or prayer or whatever it is we're doing, we are accessing different groups of cells inside of our brain. And, you know, just the more aware we become, the easier we can train ourselves. You know, one of the beautiful things

about the brain is what you practice, it gets stronger. It sells inside the brain running in circuit. The more you run it, the stronger it gets and the more automated it becomes. So then we create habits. And so we know that we can create all kinds of different kinds of habits. And for me, looking at our two emotional groups of cells and our two thinking groups of cells and what their skill sets are and what does it, training people to figure out what does it feel like to be that character, then I can jump into that character at any moment and know exactly where I'm jumping to. How many times have people said to us, well, couldn't you have made a better choice? And it's like, well, don't you think if I had a better choice, I'd have made

a better choice? And with this, when you look at this framework of the brain, it's like, well, what is the choice of my character one? What would the choice of my character three? What's my choice of the character four? And of course, which pain can I attach to that and move into as my choice of character two? Yeah. And that assumes also that we are in a state that allows us to make deliberate choices rather than in a hyper-reactive place. It's sort of like Kahneman's thinking like systems one and two, that we're really talking more about system two and we're talking all about this, and yet both systems are really important. And both systems affect the way that we interact with the world

in profound ways. Absolutely. I think that really as beautiful as the four characters are, the power of the four characters is when I move into my two, when I move into my pain, when I move into my unhappy, it is completely consuming and we rage and we rant and we become racist. We express our anger and hostility and our fear in so many different unhealthy and unattractive ways. And isn't it, how do we use the rest of our brain to nurture that part of ourselves in a really healthy way? And part of really understanding that relationship was when my mother died. Whenever I was unhappy, I just called my mom, Gigi, and she would listen to me. She would wrap her heart around me. And somehow or another, that woman would get me laughing. She would get me cracking up. And when she died, and I didn't

have that anymore as a resource for my own little character too. It was like, well, what did Gigi do? What was she actually doing? And she would say, are you okay? Are you physically okay? Is everything all right? And that's her character one saying, okay, are you safe? And it's like, yeah, physically I'm safe. And then she would say, okay, tell me about it.

And she would just listen as a character four. And she would love me and nurture me and she would support me. And it didn't matter whether I was right or wrong or good or bad. It was just, she was there to hold me. And then eventually her little character three would crack a joke and my little two was willing to become my character three and we would play together. And then I was fine. And I realized that that was the pattern for me self-soothing and me self-nurturing. And if we all had that power inside of ourselves, what a different world we would be living in. Yeah, I can get behind that. To know that all four of those states,

those characters, those capabilities to a certain extent exist within us. And that part of our work is to figure out how to identify them, train them, and then activate them when it makes most sense. Yeah. It gives you a sense of possibility and agency, which I think is a powerful set of tools to have, especially in this day and age. So it feels like a good place for us to come full circle in our conversation as well. So hanging out in this container of the Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? The power to choose who and how we want to be in any moment. To me, that's a good life because it leaves me free to be who I want to be, not just my

automatic reactivity. Thank you. Yeah, Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Hey, before you leave today, if you loved this episode, safe bet you will also love the conversation we had with neuroscientist and innovator, Ryan Darcy, who's doing stunning things with brain neuroplasticity. You'll find a link to Ryan's episode in the show notes. And even if you don't listen now, be sure to click and download

so it's ready to play when you're on the go. And of course, if you haven't already done so, go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app so you'll never miss an episode and then share it with friends. When ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold. See you next time. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here.

It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required.

Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. January 24th. and actual results will vary.