Good Life Project - From Addicted Teen to Acclaimed Therapist: The Inside Story

Episode Date: January 8, 2015

It's sooo wonderful to be back from our holiday season hiatus!And, do I have a powerhouse conversation to share with you today...By the time she got out of high-school, Terri Cole described her liver as being "pickled" by mass amounts of black-out inducing alcohol.But it would be a few more years until a brief conversation at an AA meeting would send her reeling, and become the catalyst for her to stop drinking and start down a radically different path.Sober and focused, she'd soon build a career as a super-agent and confidant to the world's biggest super-models, but the nature of the business and the potential it had to destroy her clients led her to take a giant step further.She went back to school to become a therapist, then returned to the very same celebs whose careers she'd been making, to help them understand how to better embrace a more balanced, sane and holistic approach to a career all too often defined by excess and extremes.Over the last 20 years, she's built a powerhouse practice and reputation not just in the celebrity community, but as a respected and deeply intuitive therapist with game-changing and provocative insights on love and personal relationships.Join us as we trace her remarkable and raw journey. This is a conversation where you'll want to have a pen and paper handy, especially in the later parts of the conversation when Terri begins dropping insights and strategies that just might save or deepen your most precious relationships. You may also want to check out Terri's guided meditations to help get your own practice started. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I said, what, why are you here? I had no idea what the etiquette was. I just was trying to be polite. And she said, I killed a six-year-old boy in a drunk driving accident. And I was like, okay. I didn't know what to say. I had never, I didn't expect her to say I had never I didn't expect her to say that obviously and it struck me so hard and I said oh I'm so sorry and she said you know what I have to live every day of my life knowing that I literally broke a mother's heart

you know So today's conversation didn't exactly go as planned. My guest is Terry Cole. She's a therapist and coach to a lot of big-name celebrities, and she's been doing that for the better part of 20 years. Originally, I had asked her to join me because of something that happened, a question that arose about partners dealing with one person growing while the other person wasn't. And she had some really powerful insights on that. And we do, in fact, get to that. And what she has to say, I think, is really important to hear.

But long before we got there, we kind of started to explore her personal story. And we went to a place that I had no idea we were going to go. It started in a pretty dark place, to be honest. But the revelations, the experiences she shared, the rawness, her honesty was really pretty extraordinary. And it's a conversation that I certainly learned a ton from. And I'm really excited to share with you guys. I'm Jonathan Fields. This is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.

Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die.

Don't shoot him, we need him them y'all need a pilot flight risk i um was a big always a big drinker from a big drinking family i was literally allowed to drink in my house at the age of 16. who does that? Let's just set everyone up to become alcoholics, shall we? So by the time I was in college, I had done way more than my share of drinking. I feel like my liver was kind of pickled already. And I'd had an incident, a small incident with my long-term college boyfriend, where we were out drinking and he was more of a situational alcoholic because as soon as college was over, he was no longer an alcoholic, right? Which happens a lot. A lot of kids will drink alcoholically in school.

And then as soon as their environment or their circumstance changes, they stop. So we had some incident where because I was drunk, I slipped on these stairs and made him fall. And he hurt his arm. And he didn't break his arm. He just cut his arm. But I don't know why. For some reason, that was super traumatizing to me when I woke up in the morning and I really had this epiphany, like I could really have really hurt him. What if I were, and I did other things that were hurtful, trust me, when I was drunk that I would never have done when I was sober.

But for some reason, the visual of seeing him being physically hurt, knowing that it was, I was responsible for that. I was seeing a therapist in school, um, at the time. And I tell her this story and she basically goes on to say, what you're describing and what you have been describing for the last year is alcoholic behavior. And I was like, what, who me? And she said, yeah. And I was like, what? Who? Me? And she said, yeah. And I was like, well, then PS, every person in my life is an alcoholic because everybody gets wasted and blacks out and does all that, you know? And she was like, well, that may be so, but I'm not treating everybody. I'm just treating you. And if you don't actually go to a 12 step program to check it out, I will have to terminate working with you. I was like, um, is my therapist breaking up with me right now? What is going on? It really shocked me. And I said to her, so,

so blacking out, that's not normal. She was like, no, hello. It is not normal. But I really didn't know that, honestly. So I say to my long-term boyfriend, hey, I'm going to an AA meeting tomorrow. And he was like, you are? Do you want me to come? I was like, no. So I go to this AA meeting and I walk in and it's in a church in Syosset, Long Island. And, you know, I want to be considerate. So I'm going to smoke my Parliament 100s considerably by sitting by the door. I also am thinking I might want to leave this cult. Like, I don't know what's going to happen in this meeting right now. And because this was the turning point in my life around addiction at this meeting, I'm sitting by the door in my 80s finest.

So you can visualize my hair being ridiculously huge. So much makeup, you can't even see my face. I'm wearing my stirrup pants. I've got my movable shoulder pads, obviously, because who doesn't wear a t-shirt with two pairs of shoulder pads because I did I thought I was hot so before I went in I was looking in the rear view mirror being like you're looking fine and not like an alcoholic so I go in and of course everyone at every meeting knows who's new so some you know similarly shellacked woman comes over and she was like hi are you new and I was like yes I'm new and she said I'm what do you what brings you here and I said oh you know actually my therapist

threatened to break up with me if I didn't come to at least one 12-step program I said what why are you here I had no idea what the etiquette was I just was trying to be polite and she said I killed a six-year-old boy in a drunk driving accident. And I was like, okay. I didn't know what to say. I had never, I didn't expect her to say that, obviously. And it struck me so hard. And I said, oh, I'm so sorry. And she said, you know what? I have to live every day of my life knowing that I literally broke a mother's heart. So I managed to sit through the rest of that meeting without bawling my eyes out, which is what I felt like doing. I did escape there and go into my car, and I started crying so hard.

I literally couldn't stop crying. I couldn't drive for like 20 minutes thinking of how easily that could have been me. I was crying for her, the tragedy that had become this poor woman's life and how many times I had driven drunk in my life and how grateful I was like, but that isn't me. I can choose to stop right now and I can, I can never drive drunk again. And so I did. So that was a major turning point. Yeah. I just, I made a pact with the powers that be God, the universe, whoever you believe in on the way back to campus. And I was like, um, I got it. I see this as a second chance. Thank you. And I stopped drinking and I was only 21. So that was a big turning point in my life. Right. And, and I guess the entry into your world of like really

taking a deeper dive into therapy, into your own psyche, into why you did what you did. Yeah. Self-help became very interesting to me. Yeah, I bet. I mean, but also when you go through that and then you go back to a family where the behavior is exactly as it was when you left, how do you, how do you move through that? It was difficult. It was very difficult. So, I mean, you can imagine the first X number of Christmases. And, you know, first of all, how is the family system?

When you choose to differentiate from your family system, which is what I did, right, when you do something that is going to make you different from the family, there's going to be, everyone's going to feel it because there's a homeostasis, it's called, right? A balance in a family system that gets toppled over when one person now is not doing their part. So when I called my mother originally to tell her

that my therapist thought I was an alcoholic, she was like, oh, Terry, oh, Terry, listen, maybe you have a drinking problem, but I don't think we need to say you're an alcoholic. And I was like, okay, well, you could say I'm a mime or that I'm a hippopotamus. And like, does it, does it change? Like you're that the word was very important to her that we use something different.

And I was like, okay, I don't, I don't need to deal with this. And I said, I was very close to her. I'm still very close to her. And then she said, Terry, listen, just because you're going to do this. And I think it's wonderful. Doesn't mean everyone else needs to stop drinking. And I was like, oh my God, she wants to make sure. And she was, my mother is not an alcoholic. She wasn't then. And she isn't now just like the biggest enabler on planet earth. Right. She was like,, don't rock the boat because I don't know how to deal with the boat when it starts rocking. And so I didn't tell her. I had stopped drinking for about nine months.

And then I saw her. I went to visit her. And I said, hey, we were walking, just holding hands like down her, she lives in the country. And I said, you know, I haven't had a drink in nine months. And she said, why didn't you tell me that? And I said, I tried. You didn't want to know. And she was like, I'm so sorry. I do want to know. I was like, Okay, well, I'm not drinking anymore. And I think it's pretty much for good. And I also don't want to be around drunk people. So there's going to be some boat rocking.

Are you down for that? Like, can you handle it? I'm not trying to change people, but I'm telling you right now, I'm not spending Christmas with a bunch of wasted people. So if that means I get in my car and drive to Aunt Jones or someone else's house, that's what I'm doing.

And she was like, whatever you need to do. And she's been my biggest supporter and advocate since. Yeah. Never, it just can't be an easy scenario no matter what. So the fact that she was there to say, look, I'm going to support you in this. I'm not necessarily going to go to everybody else in the family and say we all need to change together, but you have me behind you must have been really powerful. So you take that background, you take that support,

and you take that deepening interest in, I guess, really sort of starting to explore what you're doing and how your behavior is affecting you, the people around you. And after that conversation with a woman who, you know, like without intention but because of her actions ended up taking away the life of a child, has that affected you moving forward? unintention, but because of her actions ended up taking away the life of a child. How does that affect you moving forward? And I guess the question that led to all of this was, you know, how did you make the move from being in the agenting business and the entertainment business to the therapy business?

And then I guess the truth is you're still in both. So take us through that. Well, I was doing all this work on my own as my the star my star was rising in this world of entertainment so i was making strides moving agencies going to bigger agencies making a lot more money having more well-known clients and then the last place where i was is i was running the television department for elite modeling agency and so i was negotiating contracts for Naomi Campbell and supermodels keep in mind this was the 90s and

So supermodels this whole thing of supermodels being celebrities was the very like George Michael Creatin type of thing so it was actually a really good time to be doing what I was doing and yet the healthier I got the less I could tolerate being in such a backwards business. So I was so, I don't know if it was narcissistic or whatever, that I thought I was so powerful that I was going to change that industry, right? There were things that I refused to do. There were things that I was constantly fighting against. I don't want to call them, you know, they would always, all the bookers and all the other agents would call the models girls, right? And I would always be like, why are, they're not girls. These are grown women. Why are we, you know, I would

like fight my stupid battles. But the truth was by the end, I realized that whether I meant to be or not, I was a part of the problem by staying in that business, even though I'd gotten tons of models and actors into eating disorder clinics, rehab, therapy. I mean, I was definitely the one that people were calling at three in the morning being like, I'm strung out, I need help. And I knew exactly what to do because I had also been in therapy all of those years. Keep in mind, I stayed in therapy. So now I've been in therapy for over 10 years, really working on myself. I still loved the part of entertainment that I loved, but I also didn't drink. I didn't do drugs.

So I was pretty much like a serial monogamist. So I wasn't promiscuous. There was nothing there for me in that way socially. I had the same friends. I was in the same relationship. I would always hire assistants who were not married and who were like, I love to go out. I'm like, fantastic, because you're going to be doing all of the going out that I don't want to do, you know? And so I guess I got to the point in that industry where I knew I couldn't deny that I didn't want to be there. And I kept misunderstanding why I was unhappy.

I kept thinking that the next job, when I have that more money, when I'm making over $200,000, whatever it was at the time, that I was going to then be happy. Or when I became the boss. So in the end, I'm running an agency in New York. I'm the boss. I'm making lots of money. I've got all these A-list clients. And I'm still

like, okay, there's no more, like you're not happy. This is not what you want to do. So in deciding to go back to school to become a therapist, because what I was reading on my own time, what I was completely enthralled in was how we work as humans, was human relatedness, human interaction, how our past impacts or doesn't impact our now. So I applied to school with one of my friends who was like, you want to go to grad school and become a therapist? I was like, yes, I do, in fact. So I applied to one school. I applied to NYU.

Being like, if I get an interview, I can get in. If they just go by my transcripts and this crappy school I went to, I probably won't. But that was the only place I wanted to go. I wasn't going to move to anywhere. anywhere like this is what I was doing. And I got in was like, wow, now I have to go because I said I would. And I continued running that agency for about two years remotely by phone while I was in school. So, but it's really interesting also, because the, um, it's really not all that different from what you're doing. My guess is that the vast majority of the time that you were agenting, you were also being an armchair therapist.

And it's like, okay, maybe it's time for me to actually really know what I'm talking about. Was that in your head at all? It was so much the same. It's funny. You are one of two people in all these years who's ever even said, it probably is a lot alike. Wasn't that what you were doing? And that's what I always say, because it's the truth that whole time. And the real thing is that my interest changed. I was no longer interested in negotiating a Pantene deal. I didn't care if they got the deals. I

was so excited if one of these girls who I knew was a decent girl and had gotten caught up in heroin or something that I knew that she was 19 and if she didn't figure it out now it was gonna ruin her life or she'd be strung out forever got clean. That made my day. That made my week. That made my life and I was like oh man you don't want to you don't care about this anymore you care more about the mental health of your clients and the quality of their lives than you do the deal like you you're not you have to get out of here because this is no longer your primary concern so that and what's interesting too is that once you once you you know become educated and you go out into the world and you

start to build a practice and a name and a reputation you go back to the same client base at least from what i know you i i could maybe i don't have the entire story but so tell me how this sort of like loop happens it's that's exactly true and the and part of the the practice that I've had over these many years is that I have a deep understanding of what it's like to be a working actor, what it's like to be a non-working actor, what it's like to be a model, what it's like to be a celebrity. And so I really became like this triple threat in this niche market. I also became, went back to school to become a coach because I knew from the beginning that like there was no way what I wanted to do was going to really be able to fit into that box of therapy. It's so specific, but that those tools and what I knew about human nature, what I knew about the way we become how we are in the world would help me as a transformation coach, as a strategist, as an advisor, which is really what I've become. So I've done, it really is coming back around.

But now I'm able to be in these people's lives in the way that I'm most interested in being in their lives. Right. So you're serving them. And you understand the psyche and the experience of what they endure on a day-to-day basis on the business side because you played that role for so long and now, which I guess gives you a real window into understanding very viscerally what they're moving through and how best to help them. And how not to become a punchline on a late-night show, how to deal with press, paparazzi, haters online, all of that stuff.

Those are skills that I've really gotten in the last eight years because celebrity and being online and really the last five years it has exploded with Twitter and Vine and all of this other stuff where these are all other worlds that celebrities have to negotiate. Yeah. And so interesting also, because now we're living in a time where, um, I think people are more interested in being famous than they are rich or happy. Um, and that, okay, this is sweeping generalization. Um, but it seems like maybe a larger percentage of people than ever before are, just my observation. And I think it's easier than ever before because you have direct access to the platforms and all the things that can let you go direct to just become famous for being famous. Um, and I wonder if a lot of the same things that you have helped big name celebrities and things like that live through and work through, um, is now trickling down to a lot of people, um, just across every demographic. You know, it's, it's interesting to see what people that I have worked with extensively, what, what they say publicly. And I don't, I don't name names. People see, see me out and about with people, what they say publicly, and I don't name names,

people see me out and about with people, but even as a coach, I don't, I really am not that out about it, just because it's really up to the client to do that. But it's so interesting to see clients of mine who get on reality TV shows and who are teaching every person on that reality TV show how to meditate, and how now meditation becomes, there's this ripple effect of sort of goodness, I feel like, going out there into a world of a lot of darkness. And I do think that the fame thing you were talking about, reality television has changed what fame means because it used to be that you were either infamous like a serial killer

or famous like a a starlet right like like someone that everyone knew about and now you do have control over it and you can just be outrageous but that's what happens and it is about the more people know you there's no bad press right you can just be infamous basically and still get paid two hundred thousand dollars to go to the opening of a club in vegas right except there's the more and i think paid $200,000 to go to the opening of a club in Vegas. Right. Except there's the more, I think as much as people aspire to be famous in so many different ways, and again, I'm not going to make that sweeping generalization that we all want to be. Of course not. Oddly enough, I don't want to be. I do it because it's good for what we're building,

but I'm much more of an introvert. I would much rather be behind the scenes just in a cave creating. And as we build our team, I'm building a team of raging extroverts who are essentially being like the assistant that you had, you know, like when you're in the agenting business and going out there. But, you know, when you've got a lot of people who have the capacity to build their own little sphere of fame. And then at the same time, going along with that, maybe some people don't realize that you will also build a sphere of haters and people want to take you down and mass criticism, some legit, some not legit. And are you ready to own that side of the experience? And are you equipped

with the skills and the community and the support to be able to live through that? Especially. Everyone struggles with that. I think there's not, again, I don't want to use the word everyone. A lot of people. Oh, yeah. I would say, listen, you and I both know. We know celebrities.

We know of celebrities and no celebrities who are incredibly famous and choose to live on a ranch in Taos New Mexico and they go to the shows that they need to and when they're nominated and they shoot movies when they want to you There's a way to have fame and have a lot of control if you're willing to give up a lot of the other stuff And if you're famous enough, you know Like a Julia Roberts, right who's famous enough? to be on her ranch and come out when she wants to do films and come out when she's nominated and go to con. But that that's the end of that, you know? So what I say about the haters is that

first of all, nobody is, if you're going to actually read the hate, I don't think anyone is equipped to deal with the vitriolic nature of what comes at you, even if you're someone who can be considered America's sweetheart or are incredibly loved, there will always be the phenomenon of the internet trolls who do nothing in their lives. And I say to my well-known clients, I always have them go to Brene Brown has her talk in the arena, right? Where she tells a story, and most people know this about after her first TED talk went viral and crazy and how the haters were saying how fat she was. They were being so incredibly cruel.

And she didn't know not to read it and not to expose herself to it. And that, of course, because she's the therapist, right? You think about it like, wow, what is this phenomenon that I'm experiencing right now? What is happening right now? And that you really have to be incredibly discerning about whose opinion you give a crap about. Yeah.

And especially through the veil of anonymity that the Internet gives so many people, you don't know who they are. And they become much more brazen. People will say things to you and about you that they would never say if they were standing next to you with your kid by your side. I actually wrote a blog. At least I would love to believe that. Yes. No, no, actually, it's actually true. There's like social experiments that go on, like there's no way that the veil of anonymity does not uninhibit or or give give people permission i wrote a blog called got cyber balls question mark about this exact thing and i

my rule of thumb is get honest with yourself and if you wouldn't say it to this person's face, don't say it online. That if you wouldn't have the courage, and if it's mean, how about ask yourself, is it what value is this except ripping someone down to elevate my own status because I'm super insecure? Yeah. It is something that I think keeps so many voices, great voices from actually becoming voices. I know, but you know what? Listen, people, if your dharma is to get out there and change the world, and all of us have something we're supposed to be doing,

you just, I always say to my clients, listen, you're not that fragile. You're going to be okay. If you knew this person in high school, this person who's ragging on you online, you wouldn't even be friends with them. You wouldn't even know them, which is probably why they're ragging on you. And why do you care?

Are you that thin skin? Do you not know who you are? I've actually, interestingly, I've had the opposite experience of having people who were tormentors in my childhood, decades later, find me online and apologize. Interesting. Like in their 40s. Yeah, no, that's a phenomenon too. Which is funny because I let it go a long, long, long, long time ago, but they didn't. Yeah.

But that's someone who grows up though to become, like to have their own conscience. Yeah. And people do things in their teen years for whatever reasons that are, you know, you look back and go, that is horrible. I have so many former bullies. I have had many who are clients and who I always say, I'm pretty sure that Susie Brown let that go a long time ago. And they're like, but I was such an idiot. I was such a jerk. Like, how could I have done that? And I suggest that they contact Susie Brown if they can find her and say they're like but i was such an idiot i was such a jerk like how could i have done that and i suggest that they contact suzy brown if they can find her and say they're sorry

yeah and at that point i guess it's not about suzy no it's not about suzy yeah suzy moved on a long time ago right mayday mayday we've been compromised the pilot's a hitman i knew you were gonna be fun on january 24th Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him.

Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just

15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results So you get to a point where you're building this really powerful career as a therapist, working with a lot of super high-profile people. What are you getting out of that? I think there's a combination of things. One thing is that the sparkly, shiny, seductive way that entertainment always was for me, it was always that. There was something very seductive just about the whole nature of the business.

And for me, it was about finding talent and seeing something, seeing a spark in someone that no one else had seen, and then going on to have millions of people see it eventually or whatever. I thought that was fun and interesting. Also, the whole specialness thing. If I were to be honest and connect the dots backwards in my life, I was raised in a way where my mother really convinced me very early on that I was super special and that something I was meant to do important things and that I could help a lot of people. I should help. If you can, you should, according to my

mother. Or if you have more than someone, if you, I've always volunteered, you know, I mean, that was how I was raised. But the specialness, I think that working with people who are very well known, not drinking the Kool-Aid of fame, there's something that makes me feel special. And I don't mind going to Saturday Night Live and being in the green room with a client. Like, that's fun. There's something fun and exciting about that part of it. So there's truth in that. And that's maybe the frivolous side of it, let's say. But the other side of it is that i actually am an expert at their on their life

i actually know i understand what they're going through and i really do have great strategies of how they cannot end up like a fat bloated dead elvis presley do you know i mean that's a bad example but you know it's not a bad example because that is what we're trying to avoid, right? Is having your addictions kill you. Having a bunch of yes people around you who say yes that you're doing fine when you're not doing fine. And my clients know that no matter what, I will tell them my truth. I haven't cornered the market on the truth. I don't know what the truth is. But I can tell you if how you're behaving is bullshit, if how

you're reacting is not about this, if I can tell you what I observe, and I will tell you it even if you don't want to hear it, and I will tell you it even if it means you'll fire me. There are the day-to-day though experiences once you reach a real peak level of fame is there's a lot of stress because you can't go anywhere without protection. And so you really are trapped and it's most people who really want to do it. They don't complain about it per se, but I can tell you from a therapeutic point of view that the people who love you and who you know that it's because of these fans that you are doing as well as you were doing but you might have just worked 20 hours in a row you might just be

saying goodbye to your boyfriend who lives in another you know country you might just someone might just have died and you might not want to sign autographs going into your apartment just this time and then people that then all the stories start. This person's an asshole. This person's not nice. This person doesn't care. And there is a lot of pressure, especially when you do really care about your fans.

And they're another relationship. They're a whole relationship in your life when you are famous is how you relate to your fans. It's a full-on relationship. So let me make this personal then. I'm going to tap some advice now. As I look at what we're building with Good Life Project, as I said, I have no ego need to be front and center.

I have no immediate desire to be the face of the brand, to be a personality in front of it. I found that for some bizarre reason. It's good for what we're doing. But I love to be behind the scenes. And as I become more and more public, it's certainly nowhere on the level of celebrity. But in my own little window, there are people who might know me.

I find myself censoring i find myself filtering i find myself developing a more sanitized version of myself to put forward and um out of fear that uh people will judge me and criticize and not so much that it'll hurt the brand or hurt our ability to have an impact on people's lives with what we're building, but I think it's personal. You know, and we know it's very difficult to live as two different people in two different parts of your life. It's massive stress. I think it's hugely destructive on so many different levels. And to do what you feel like you're here to do. And what's so interesting to me, and this has come back to me a number of times this year, is that I've had a number of people come up to me when we've been live at a retreat or something like that. And I've let a lot more of the real

me out. And they literally come up to me, they're're like where the hell has that Jonathan been where's that guy because we actually want more of it I'm like but I don't know if middle America does yeah and I want to serve a lot of people so there's this really interesting dance that I do that I'm getting really tired of doing yeah I mean you can look at the space that we're in the space of empowerment right the space of entrepreneurs, inspiration, whatever. And you can see this happening. And of course, we do know a lot we were just I don't know we were just jamming like every night we were up till three in the morning yakking and she was saying to me this was when I was maybe it was three years ago it was when I was really trying to figure out this whole thing with my brand because as a therapist there's so many things that you do right I never even entered my mind until someone said it to me a

year and a half ago maybe two years ago about that because I had well-known clients that I should ever say that that happened. I was like, why? That's not a brand. This person was like, it kind of matters to some people. And I didn't get it. I mean, so I do now have that in my bio a little bit in a way I never did before. But what Danielle was saying, we're sitting there at a coffee shop and she's like, Terry, listen, you do these videos. And she's like, it's smart

because you're smart. Great. Your tune up tips. She's like, but you're not in there almost at all. She's like, I don't see the Jersey. I don't see the cursing. I was like, well, I can't. She's like, but, but the sentiment, the snarky, as you said, the funny, she's like, you're so funny. None of your videos are funny. Why? I was like, I don't know. I feel like I have to be a therapist. She's like, listen, you can be the, the, you know, the, the, what did she say? She's like, you can be the bombshell, the Jersey bombshell that you are. And that will actually be more appealing to people because it's true and it's real. And I really sort of worked on what you're saying, allowing, how do I really feel? What do I really think about this? And using humor and knowing I don't have to be so serious. I am, I am a very astute therapist, a very smart clinical

therapist. That's real from all these years of experience. And I also like to laugh, and I also curse all the time, and I'm also these things too. And it's really a question which at Camp GLP was brought up about professional brand, personal brand. When your brand is your personal brand, you're saying, you know, good life project, and yet reality is that, in my mind, you are the good life project right which is the big struggle for me because I don't want to be the brand and um uh it keeps coming back to uh

that same owning it um and I think part of it is because like like I said, I don't, from an ego standpoint, of course I have an ego, but I don't have an ego need to be the brand. You know, I built a couple of companies in the past and I sold them. And they were very much built around me as well. But when I sold the company, I handed over the keys on the last day. I walked out and I was whole. I was good. And people are like, when are you coming back? Are you going to teach? Are you going to do this? And I'm like, no, I walked out and I was whole. I was good. And people are like, when are you coming back? Are you going to teach?

Are you going to do this? I'm like, no, I'm good. Right. Like, it's a great community. It's a great business. I wish you, like, flowers and all this stuff. But I'm good. My identity is just not wrapped up in that thing.

Right. Even though it was a part of what helped it grow to become what it was. So there's this interesting thing. And people have approached me a part of what helped it grow to become what it was. So there's this interesting thing. And people have approached me a number of times, like, how can you build a big, like, a business or a community? And then just walk away. Because it's not, I don't identify myself with that. It's not me.

So I'm very good just doing that. But, yeah, I mean, the other part of the conversation, I think, is that when we're hanging out face to face, you know, there's so much nonverbal communication that's going on. And if we're at camp, if we're at a retreat, if we're in a room for an event, there's a container where everyone understands that context. And they can see my body language. They can feel the intonation, the rhythm, the tone, the pace, and they can understand. Whereas if I'm on audio only or if I'm on video only and it just happens to be embedded on somebody's website

who's never experienced me before without that container and that context and you're the Jersey bombs know, like Jersey bombshell, cursing like a sailor but dropping really good information simultaneously, or I'm the person who gets, you know, lets the snark out, you know, the concern is that, okay, well, that person is not going to get it, and then there's going to be a backlash because they don't understand that it's actually really coming from love. Snarky, badass, sometimes swearing like a sailor, love, but love. And my intention is to really do good.

And so I guess what's certainly bound to is I have some work I have to do. Do you know what? I had a therapist. I mean, actually, it was a supervisor for years. Like when you're a therapist, you pay someone else who has lots of experience to help you. And when I first started, I was like, who? I had such the imposter syndrome. It was crazy, right? Where I was like, hi, I'm a talent agent, not a therapist.

How did I get here? I'm scared. You know, like, what if I do the wrong thing? What if this? What if that? And Ruth said to me, Terry, listen, everyone starts somewhere. And my question to you, and my only question to you is, is your heart in the right place in reference to your clients? Do you hold them in high esteem? Do you treat them with respect?

Do you care about them? Are you, are you invested in them getting better? And I was like, definitely, definitely resounding yes. And she said, that's, that's all you can do. She's like, sometimes people are going to misunderstand the intervention you're trying to do or what you're doing, or people will be mad because they're having a transference. So you could do everything right. You could, they could see the whole thing that you talked about, right? And they could still misconstrue. I mean, I've got my own experience with haters online where I say haters, but it's, it's my feeling is that it's people, either you have, I've had people be like, oh, she thinks she's perfect, right? Me. I'm like, okay, if you've ever read anything I've written, that's not true, but fine. I don't even respond.

I didn't respond. And, or, or if it's on my site and people are sort of giving me crap about something, I always go back and say, I'm so grateful that you wrote that comment because this is a place for an open dialogue. Because here's the thing, I'm not scared of you. I'm not scared of what you're saying because I know it isn't true. I mean, if it's someone who's just like nuts and saying something that's just, there's nothing in it at all, of course, I'll erase that. But generally speaking, I invite people'll erase that. But generally speaking,

I invite people to have that kind of a dialogue, knowing that people are going to misunderstand. I'm going to remind someone of their ex-wife and then misconstruing what I have to say is super easy through that lens. And so I can't worry about every person. And I don't, I know, as long as you know, in your heart, back to what you were saying, that what you're saying is what you want to be saying and that you're coming from the place that ultimately A, not want to do this anymore, or you'll get to the point where you realize being your true self is where all the juice is. Your brilliance is in that snarky comment too, because all of those things make up the combination of what make you appealing, I think.

And so getting really, if you do a lot of editing, I think you will be uninterested in doing this because editing is boring as crap, right? I totally agree. And it's a lot of work. I mean, you know, we walk through each day. You start each day and your tank is on a certain number and by the end of the day it's nearly depleted. But just the process of living as two different people,

even if they're just a little bit different in different parts of your life, is massively depleting on almost every level. From a celebrity point of view, though, I have to say, it is such a necessary part. And I'm not talking about people who live in New York. I'm not talking about really like the Gyllenhaals or whoever. There are people that we all see, or I know through Frank Lippman or whatever, that they've chosen a different kind of celebrity. That's different.

But for people who are in Hollywood, Hollywood, you have erected such a hardcore false self that is a public persona that all the people who are gay, who are having these public affairs with the young starlets that are not real, I mean, that is going on. That wasn't like 1950s, just Rock Hudson. That's going on right now. I can't imagine living on that level of duality.

I just, I can't imagine the stress of what that's got to do to your psyche, to your physical health over like a window of time. But I think it really does all come back, at least for me. And I think the big takeaway probably for people that are listening to this is that, and it's funny that you brought this up and use almost the same language that's been in my head, which is like, it's a matter of right intention. When I put it out into the world, even if I screwed up the words, even if I screwed up like the way that it hit people, did it come from a place of right intention? If it did, I find myself increasingly like, okay, it kind of sucks that it's being misconstrued or there's backlash, but I'm pretty okay with the fact that I knew it came from a place of right intention. And if I find that I'm really not

handling it well, what I'll usually discover is that it didn't come from that place, is that maybe I responded out of anger. Maybe I responded out of vitriol. Maybe I was like I responded out of just, you know, envy or whatever it was. And if I'm really having trouble letting it go, it's not that the other person is like an asshole who's attacking me. It's that I screwed up. You know, so it's been this really interesting trigger for me to start to say, okay, if I'm having that much trouble letting this go, was it not from a place of right intention?

And almost definitely, that's what's happened. But what a juicy way to learn about yourself. Yeah, not so great stuff, you know? Absolutely. So, um, I don't want to be respectful of your time. But also, um, there was one particular thing that made me say, hey, I want you to come in. And it's something that's come up so many times. I think almost anybody who goes through any process of being on a path of growth, being in a deliberate sort of like investing and trying to become your next better self, however you want to describe it.

And if you're in a relationship with somebody else at the same time, whether it's a lover, a partner, a husband, wife, whatever it may be, and that other person is not on the same path with you. And this was interesting because we were hanging out not too long ago at Camp GLP with 250 other awesome people from flavors from around the world. And on the last morning, we just had an open Q&A, and were hanging out there and somebody, you know, a couple rows back asked a question. And the question was something along the lines of, how do you handle it when you're going through a process of intense growth and your partner is not? What do you do if, because it's gonna start to create challenges between you and it was funny

because at that moment i like glanced at you because i'm like i think terry's got something to say that and then we traded emails after i'm like i know you have stuff and then you actually i think you emailed me yeah and i was like oh that's good because i was about to email you too yeah so i was like i'm really curious how you how you would explore that. There's so many different ways, but I feel like it's such a good question because most relationships will go through different periods of time where one person is growing more. Even in relationships where both are interested in being on some kind of an illuminated path, some kind of an evolutionary path,

a lot of times you'll have one person really, really growing and the other person not as much. What ends up happening is that people feel threatened. So let's just quick break down the why of why it can create conflict and splitting. And then when is it good if it splits people? And when is it not good? Or how is it avoidable if you want to avoid it? Part of it is that when you fall in love, when you get into a relationship, you're hoping that that person, that they love you for who you are, right? You love them for who they are, not who they're going to be in 10 years from now. And so when you change,

the other person may feel threatened that you will now abandon them, you will leave them, you will no longer love them. That is the biggest unconscious fear, is that if this person changes, and I had a client, and I was telling you I had a good example of this, a client who was a woman who was obese, had been obese all of her life, had this gorgeous, gorgeous face though, and so she was really, I mean, I don't think anybody wants to be obese, but she was really sick of people being like, but you have such a beautiful face, you know? So married for many, many years. I didn't meet her until she was 60. And her husband was always, had always been very thin in their early years together. And then was just normal size by the time they met. And she came in, we started talking about the origin of the weight, how she needed

for protection because she'd had abuse in her life, blah, blah, blah. And now the weight starts coming off. She starts swimming a lot And now the weight starts coming off. She starts swimming a lot. The weight starts really coming off, like it's coming off, like many, many pounds. And in the beginning, he was all, yay, rah, rah. And then she starts to report his sabotaging behavior. He's now setting her up to fail. He's bringing in her favorite Cinnabons.

He's bringing in under the guise of, well, we're having company, so we should, knowing she will have no willpower, she will eat them. In the beginning, because he used to love her this way, let's think about what is it like if someone is married to someone who's obese? How are they a part of? They become a part of the obese persons, at least in this situation. I can only speak for this situation. That he was a part of her relationship to food.

He wasn't saying to her, you need to lose weight. He loved her the way she was. He knew that she struggled with it, but when they were at a county fair, was he telling her not to eat the fried dough? No, he wasn't. So this was a way of food and loving her. It was all accepting her sort of. So now he was feeling very threatened. And I was so mad, even though I knew it was going on, but she would come in and say, Oh, you know, Bob, he's so cute. It was my birthday. And he bought, you know, he bought me like this big fattening thing that I shouldn't be eating. If I want to keep losing weight, basically is what I'm hearing. And I was like, really? Did you eat it? She was like, well, I mean, I didn't want to hurt his feelings. You know, the whole thing is you can imagine. And finally, Bob agrees to come in and see me for a couple of

sessions and we talk it out. And then I see them both for a little bit. Cause I'll do that. Like I don't need to, we don't need to do full on couples therapy. Sometimes I can see the partner for two sessions. I can see them both for one or two sessions and we figure it out, which we did there. But he was able to articulate that he was worried if she lost all this weight, even though they had literally been together 40 years, and I'm not exaggerating, four zero, that's how long they'd been together since college, that she would leave him. And she has lost the weight. She has not left him. They are perfectly happy. But part of how that happened was through a conversation. So part of why you and I actually were really talking about this is you were having people who were doing your mastermind

or getting involved with doing something with your stuff, and their partner either wasn't on board at all, right? They would be threatened. I mean, so one of the programs that we offer is this sort of extended, accelerated, really wrapped-in in business growth, but there's a huge amount of personal evolution that goes on in the context of that. And people, I think the really threatening part of it is that you've got 30-something

people that would come together from around the world over seven months and become deeply, deeply connected. I mean, bonded like they were best friends since they were in second grade. And for a lot of these people, you know, like our community tends to be adults. They're not kids in their 20s. They're part of it, but we have a lot. So they have long-term relationships, spouses, partners.

And what we would hear every once in a while is that the partner, the person who was not like the member of the group um would first start to ask questions and then he's occasionally start to like really express feeling threatened like what's going on like these are your you're sharing intimately with these other people and you're changing you know in an amazing way and i love it and i want to support it but i'm not part of it and I'm terrified. And we were trying to figure out, from our standpoint,

we were trying to figure out how do we actually, what's at A, what's going on here? Let's really understand what's going on here. And B, how do we support people, both sides, in that process? There's so much, though though about the couple itself. When people come together, how this is going to play out with couples, this type of thing has everything to do with how healthy they were when they got together, how healthy the marriage is, how stable the marriage is. So is it someone who's just having pangs of like, I'm kind of feeling envious right now.

Like, I feel like I'm sharing you intimately with all these people that I sort of don't want to be. I'm feeling a little worried. If somebody had the capacity to use those words and to say that, their partner would then have the capacity to say, you know what, babe, you don't need to be threatened. I love you. And I love that you're supporting this growth for me because this is what is important to me and I'm really enjoying it, but I want you to come. We're all going to get together. The next time we have the meeting together, we're all going

to get together the night after with spouses. And I would love you to meet these people and be a part of it in that way. There has to be now a healthy relationship is flexible enough to tolerate that. But it all comes down to effective communication. You have many, many relationships where people, couples where they're just doing what their parents did. They have what I call, you know, they're rocking their downloaded blueprint from childhood around love. They don't know that this isn't just the way it is, right? This is just the way it was for their parents. It doesn't have to be that way for them. And so you really have to question the union itself. Because if it's one where their parents were

always unhappy, they stayed together, but were unhappy and bitter and fought all the time. This is just another thing for this couple to fight about, but because they fight about everything. So, you know, Camp GLP or you are not going to be able to change that. You can create experiences or extended experiences for the long-term spouses of people if you want to, even if it's just allowing them into, you know, having one thing specifically for them to come,

that that could help. Because, I mean, I'm really into whatever my husband, we've been married, we've been together 17 years, whatever he's into, I make it my business to be interested in what Vic is into. I don't feel compelled to be at everything he does, especially because he gets embedded in war zones and stuff, right? So I have to be a very good sharer with my husband because he has deep relationships with other people in other countries doing his thing. But I'm certainly interested because I'm interested in him because he is interesting to me, you know? So I make it,

if he invites me to something, if it's a business thing, even if I'm not interested in that business thing, I'm ultimately always interested in Vic. So I will go, even if I think it's going to be boring, even if I don't feel like making that small talk, you know? And so this is the same thing with couples. What is their relationship like to begin with? Because on the flip side of the good relationship where you would like to invite them in a little way is the relationship that just needs to end. And this will be the catalyst. This will be the tipping point that has probably the

participant in the good life project or the mastermind you're doing get to the point of realizing they're making these meaningful, healthy, respectful connections with other people in their group. And maybe they don't have that at all with their spouse, but they really want it. I'm actually having this experience right now in a group that I'm doing. It's just a four-week group about flipping the script on fear, basically. And people are sharing really profoundly in the Facebook group. It's a private, like a secret group. And one woman basically saying, I've known why I've kept my relationship with fear like this for so long.

Because there's one relationship, which is that with my husband, that I have not wanted to look at. Because I know if I open my eye even a little, I'm going to see that I must take an action that I'm afraid to take. And yet this course is inspiring me to open my eye a little and I see it's inevitable if I'm going to live the life that I say I want it won't be in this loveless situation and

so am I gonna try to invite her husband into something or convince her no I'm happy for her because this isn't like she decided yesterday. This is like she's probably been in an unhappy marriage for 20 years. Yeah, it's complex. It's so complex. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X,

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Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. We've been looking at it in a number of different ways. And I've been looking at it in a number of different ways also because I've been in some way, shape, or form as an entrepreneur in the health and healing and community building businesses for 12, 15 years now. So it always comes up no matter what we're doing.

I mean, when I was in the fitness world, it would come up. When I was in the yoga world, which is a walking disaster. Sorry, all my friends in the yoga world. But talk about some really interesting culture and ethics. Just in the way that the business side unfolds and the communities work. There's a lot of dysfunction in almost every world but you know you you find anytime you have people who take on a practice in a community that leads to um sort of an experience of accelerated growth um stuff happens even though it may not have been the intention um and uh we always kept a short list of therapists because people would come to us first and foremost as the people who helped provide the what was the therapeutic word inciting incident or the precipitating precipitating

incident yes and i was also we trained a lot of yoga teachers and this was a topic that we said we're like look this don't be surprised if this happens and if people come to you you are not a therapist you need to really understand that. And you need to have a short list of people who are really qualified to help people process what may have broken open through accessing a physical practice or a breathing practice or a meditative practice, whatever it is that you're helping them with, and give them the support that they really need. And it was interesting as a lot of people actually try and play the role of therapist, and I'm not a fan of that. No. Well, it makes me nervous because the truth is somebody could have a psychotic break. I mean, things really do happen when you get sort of cracked open,

and a yoga practice and those types of things really can do that. But can we talk about just for a sec, what can people do in relationships? Yeah, love to. Okay. To, if you're a young couple, if you're getting married, and even if you've been married for a long time, there are a couple of things that I have my clients do that, that really nurtures and keeps, um, the relationship and the communication very clean and clear because this is really what you want to do every week. Now, if you're married for a long time, you may

not want to do it weekly, but for young clients who are getting married, I have them do it every week. If you're just moving in together, you need to do this weekly, right? It's called having a conversation that we call state of the union, where you spend one hour it could be Friday mornings over a cup of tea having a meal talking about what was bothersome during the week what what you didn't like or didn't appreciate or you would like to make a simple request that they change and then of course always that conversation would end with what you're really thankful for that they did how they make your life better and easier or whatever things you love about them. But by creating a space where

the expectation is that you will be complaining about something that you, it's okay to talk about things that are negative and that those conversations, those are the ones that deepen the relationships where you're, you are actually allowing yourself to tell the truth because so many women have what is called the disease to please, right? Where they don't even, they're not valuing at all being authentic in their relationships. They're trying to be what the person, other person wants them to be. They don't, they're embarrassed to talk about what they want sexually, what, what, what their preference is. They're like, they'll, they'll sit in my office and say, like, he does this thing. I hate it.

I'm like, okay, how about telling him you hate it? Because do you think you're being nice to him by continuing to let him do this thing he thinks is like his magic sex thing? And it's not at all because you don't like it? You don't even like it? There's something about this need to be nice that women have. And I put quotes around nice because I don't think that being dishonest is being nice. I think it's just avoiding a negative conversation that you feel ill-equipped to have. So State of the Union, one hour a week, normalizes you talking about things that maybe in the beginning you'd be uncomfortable and then you get really good at it so that's one thing that i say that you create one hour of no judgment

no fighting whoever's talking has the you know you i have people have a little talking stick where if you were talking jonathan i gave you the talking stick there would be no interrupting you and there would be no discounting your um how, how the events happened for you, right? I would not be allowed to say that's not how it happened. We're just, I'm listening to you actively and then say, okay, I hear you. And then if the tables are turned, everyone gets a chance to speak their mind honestly. And another thing I have people do is they do a couple's vision once a year, at least once a year, where you both write down in all areas of your life, where would you like to live? Where do you want to live now?

Where do you want to see yourself in five years from now, 10 years from now? And you may not know that, but collectively, these are good things to think about. How do you want to spend your money? Do you talk about, I mean, with Vic and I, if it's over a certain amount of money, we agree that we will talk to each other before we spend that money it's not permission we both make our own money and we have our money as collective that's how we do it but nobody's pulling more weight than the other we've always shared whatever but that's our agreement is that if it's over I think it's $800 then you have to

have a conversation with the other person or just say I want to buy this new thing it's two grand okay it isn't permission. It's a courtesy is how I see it. But every couple has a different agreement. But if you have no agreement, you will be set up to have a lot of problems. So know that a marriage is something that you work on and that you work at for it to be good, for it to be beautiful, for it to be thriving, and that it really doesn't happen. In my estimation, it doesn't happen like they show you in the movies. You may be good and compatible, and that's great, but to really have a great marriage, it is a lot of work and a lot of compromise.

And I would have it no other way. I'm happy to do all of that work, but it definitely doesn't happen on its own. Yeah. Agreed. It's an interesting process. A friend of mine and somebody who I interviewed a couple of years back for this, Brad Feld, lives out in Boulder. And every month he has what him and his wife call their life dinners. They go to a restaurant, they get a bottle of wine. Sometimes they're there for an hour. Sometimes they close it down.

Sometimes there's a lot of laughter. Sometimes there's a lot of tears. Sometimes there's all three, but it's essentially doing what you were just saying. They do it every month. That's awesome. How are we doing and where are we going together? And they also do, they have, I think they call it like their three minutes in the morning or something like that, which at first he's like, you know, I'm busy, blah, blah, blah. And then she's like, do you have three minutes? Yeah. Write it down. And that's the, you know, the way it starts. And no, I agree. I mean, you know, I work with my wife, we're married,

similar to you, we're married 17 years and we are around each other 24 7 7 days a week and a lot of people raise an eyebrow when they're like like really like really really right like you still like her yeah and i don't like i i don't travel a whole lot when i do we usually travel together um and uh so it's been this really fascinating dance to allow that, both create space for it to evolve, to invite it, to move through whatever it brings up. And I think, yeah, when you approach it from a space of openness, and let's see if we can figure this out together,

you know, that whatever the circumstances are that bring up the tough conversations, you know, have the potential to bring closer together. Maybe not always. And maybe I can only speak from my relationship and my past coming into this relationship. And, you know, like where we've been, I can't speak to where we're going. Right.

So I guess I can't really generalize that to everybody, but I can just sort of share that that's been our experience to date and God willing, it will continue to be. I think that part of how you stay successful though, is the same way that a therapist, if you're a couples therapist, you look at the couple as your client, right? You don't see them separate. You, everything that you think about when you're working with a couple is, will this strengthen the union? Is this good for the marriage? So I always say to people who are struggling in their relationship that there are two things that are your priority, right? Your own, whatever it is, whether it's your own evolution.

But somebody has to be standing up for the marriage. So Vic and I have an agreement that whoever is cracking up first, like if I'm losing my stuff first, he needs to keep it together. He can't join me like on the ledge. Like if I'm on the ledge about something and losing it. So only one person can crack up at a time. That's our agreement. So if I got there first, then you just have to hold it together.

He needs to be the normal one that says it's going to be fine.'ll be done in a little bit but you need it yeah that's fine it's but it's so important to not you can't have two people being hysterical it doesn't work and who's gonna stand up for the union you may want to be petty in that moment you may be angry but is that what what is best for the marriage and And it's probably not. So can you, are you less mad? Can you stand up for the marriage and not go for that juggler comment? Can you not say the meanest thing that you can think of because it's bad for the marriage? And listen, some people don't fight that way. And I don't imagine you do. And I don't actually, but I do see this with couples. And I'm like, words have an impact.

Like, you can't take that back once you say it, you know? Yeah. It's funny. I think sometimes of the analogy, like the, yeah, stuck on a desert island. You know, if it was just you and this one other person stuck on a desert island for life with no hope of ever being rescued, would you figure out a way to make it work? You know, and so I wonder sometimes whether the perception these days of just having so many options and being, maybe the perception of judgment, you know, I think a

generation or two generations ago, like the perception of being judged for leaving a marriage was much more substantial than it is now, where sadly it seems to be a lot of commonplace. But whether the perception of just having the much easier, less judgment-involved option of walking creates a foundation where people maybe aren't as open to the world. I don't know. Right.

Again, I hate to. To generally, but listen, you're also talking about statistics, though, Jonathan. You're saying the statistic now is 54% of the people in this country are divorced. At least once, if not more, right? 60-something percent of families are blended families in some way, shape, or form, meaning it's the second or third marriage for the people in there. That's a lot of people walking away from unions. And for me, there's no judgment.

My parents are divorced. Yeah, and I think that's actually, it's important for anyone to understand this conversation. This is not about judging anybody who does that. I don't, you don't. Absolutely not. We don't know your life. Exactly. That may have been the best thing that could have ever happened in the world. Exactly. But people coming up, younger people, right? I feel like this generation where therapy

is all over TV, where you don't have to, nobody even cares. You can have all your babies with baby daddies and not get married. Like the truth is most people don't, will not judge you if you're not married and you have children. You don't have to get married. There is not this social thing to do so. And yet people do. And I feel like with a lot of my clients, there is definitely not all of them. Some of them, the thought that if it doesn't work out, I'll just get divorced because my mother's been married three times. My father's been married four times. I had a client that that was the actual case and she's happily married now on her second

marriage. But it was almost like that's a repetition as well. When you look at in your mind, does love last? Do you want it to? Is it supposed to? You know, and I never thought I would actually get married. That wasn't, I wasn't that interested in getting married. I was interested in making my own money. I was interested in not being dependent on a man. My mother was like, make your own money, get an education so that love can be a choice and not a need. And that was the message in my early life and so it was shocking to me when I

when I met and like fell in love with my husband who had three acting out teenage kids he was widowed he lived in Elizabeth New Jersey like all of these things that make you go really that was like your dream man and yet he was and it was obviously the right thing for us to do where it suddenly didn't matter ever anything ever i always think and i always say everything is better with vick everything doesn't matter he'd be going to the dump we're upstate because we live half upstate and i'm like i want to come why do i want to come because everything is better with vick i'd rather go with him to the dump and probably avoid writing or whatever it is i'm doing but i didn't know that i could feel

that way or that that would happen in light of so many people in my life, so many people being divorced. So I think that it's important to think about what is your intention before you get into a relationship. And people can do whatever they want, but people come to me and say, I want to have a good marriage. How do I keep it good? What do I do? And the first thing is to say, yeah, you must take responsibility for making it a priority. It won't magically just be good. Things change. Kids grow up. They leave. Women go through menopause. So you want to have sex and then sometimes you don't want to have sex. And it's like, those are all things that if you're in a long-term relationship, you know that that part of your life ebbs and flows. But the friendship, if it's a good friendship, that is the thing that keeps you together. And I always say about sex, you just have to have sex.

You just have to. Just keep having sex, even when you don't feel like it. Trust me. Two seconds into it, you'll be into it. It's fine. Just do it. So what's that about? About having sex?

Besides that, it's fun. Yes, it's fun yes it's fun because i find that with a lot of my friends and clients that they didn't prioritize sex and in not doing it that drifting apart when you really drift apart physically that makes somebody very ripe to have an affair that happens right it it you are human you may not feel like having sex with your spouse anymore, but if it's because they're not wanting to have sex with you, you still want to have sex. You suddenly become like low hanging fruit for someone in the office who maybe is cute or they think you're cute or whatever. My feeling is that when, even when things are rough between you,

raising teenagers, that was rough. That's a rough time in life. If we could come together at least once a week, more on good weeks, but at least once a week to just honor the connection between us, to just take that time to give each other a massage. Eventually that will lead to sex. Usually there's something about keeping that, um, intimate connection, doing the thing that you only do with the person that you're married to, right? Sex is reserved for this special relationship. So I knew somebody once who he called it institutionalizing sex,

where it was sort of embarrassing because I'm not going to say who it is. I'm not going to say whatever. Someone who I'm sort of related to so whatever when he was telling the story i was like um okay i don't think i even want to know this it's like yeah thank you but he was saying that he and his wife go to church every sunday and have had sex every sunday for the past they're married like 50 years 50 years and he's like you know that may sound boring and our friends laugh at us but the truth is p.s we're the only people of our friends who are still having sex. And he's like, it becomes a sacred time between us. And he's not in this world at all. So the

fact that he even used the word sacred, I was like, it's kind of true. There's like a sacred sexuality about that, but it also keeps you close. It keeps you physically close and close emotionally. It's really hard if you're having sex with someone once a week to be having sex with someone else and to be looking in the eye of your partner, where you said until the end of time, and maybe you're stepping out on them. It's really hard to do.

So I feel like it's a good, it's just good. Better to have a lot of sex than to have no sex. Awesome. So we got some great suggestions to keep that rolling. And we've been rolling for a lot longer than I asked you for. So I'm grateful for that. So let me come full circle. Great. How long have we been rolling? I think about an hour and a half now. My God. Dude, we could be here for like seven hours. It went so fast. We could jam for a long time because there's so many other things I want to talk about. So let me come full circle to the question that I wrap with everybody asking, which is the name of this is Good Life Project.

So if I offer that term out to you to live a good life, what does it mean? It means that I'm free. A good life to me means that I'm free to spend time with my husband, my kids, my mother, my sisters, to free financially. Like freedom is a big word for me. And even though I work really hard for the freedom that I create with that work, right? That's to me, that's a good life is that I have done what I've wanted since I was born, I think. And I'm willing to work my butt off to continue to be able to do

what I want. That is a good life giving back because I want to do that, that I'm free to give back, right? Thank you. Thanks for having me. It was so much fun. So thanks so much for joining us for this week's conversation with Terry. I know I found it really inspiring, eye-opening. It's given me a ton to think about, and I really hope it's given you guys some interesting insights, some valuable things to explore, and maybe some strategies and ideas that really add to your life. If you've enjoyed this, be so grateful if you just jump over to iTunes and maybe share that. Give us a nice review if it feels right to you.

And share this episode if you know anybody who you think might really benefit from it, who's in a place where it might make a difference for them. And as always, it's always fun to see you over at goodlifeproject.com. Thanks so much. Wishing you an amazing rest of the week. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,

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