Good Life Project - Gail Devers | How to Take Back Control of Your Life and Health

Episode Date: July 5, 2022

Today's guest, Gail Devers, was a rising star in the world of running, winning title after title. Until her body began to betray her, literally consuming itself and threatening to end her career just as it was just getting going, let alone her life. Maybe even more distressing, though, was a level of systematic gaslighting for years, doctors kept saying nothing was wrong, but she knew. And she kept pushing for answers until she found one, then painstakingly rebuilt her health, her life, and stepped back onto the track to do what no one else thought possible. Gail became a nine-time World Champion, three-time Olympic gold track and field medalist, and a five-time Olympian. Now a fierce advocate for raising awareness for Grave's Disease, which she was finally diagnosed with, she’s made a name for herself as one of the fastest women alive for almost two decades. Although the odds were seemingly against Gail when she discovered her diagnosis, from her health suffering to her self-confidence taking a major hit as a result. It made Gail's recovery and comeback moment years later in the 1992 Olympic Games in Barcelona even more special. But her story is also so much bigger than running. She’s become a fierce advocate to raise awareness for Grave's disease and its accompanying TED symptoms. In my chat with her today, we take it back to where it all first started, remembering what motivated her to step onto the track in the first place, and we make our way up to the moment that finally changed everything for Gail: receiving her first diagnosis. We talk about how overwhelming yet crucial it was for Gail to serve as her own health advocate during her search for answers, how goal-setting played its role in her recovery and healing journey, and why it's so important for us all to take back control of our lives against anything that tries to take it away from us. This talk with Gail comes at a special time since July is Grave's Disease Awareness Month. So buckle in, and come along this ride with us today and learn how one woman was determined to finish the race that she started, even if her life depended on it. So excited to share this conversation with you.You can find Gail at: More About Thyroid Eye Disease | InstagramIf you LOVED this episode you’ll also love the conversations we had with Rich Roll about navigating his journey through addiction, recommitting himself to health and wellness, and eventually becoming an ultra-endurance athlete.Check out our offerings & partners: My New Book Sparked | My New Podcast SPARKEDVisit Our Sponsor Page For a Complete List of Vanity URLs & Discount Codes. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm at the Olympic Games. I'm going to see myself crossing the finish line regardless of what other people see me doing. And I'm a winner by my attitude. I'm a winner not by the placing, but by my performance, by my effort. And I remember getting across the finish line, and I think there were probably maybe three people in the world that believed that I could do it. And I was one of those people, most importantly. I remember taking a victory lap and the guy with the big camera was following, and I was rolling. I mean, I was running fast on my victory lap. He's like, slow down. You're supposed to savor the moment. I said, you better keep up because you don't know what I've gone through. My guest today, Gail Devers, was a rising star in the world of running,

winning title after title until her body began to betray her, literally consuming itself and threatening to end her career just as it was getting going and maybe her life. Maybe even more distressing though, was a level of systematic almost gaslighting for years. Doctors kept saying nothing was wrong, but she knew and she kept pushing for answers until she found one, and then painstakingly rebuilt her health, her life, and stepped back onto the track to do what no one else thought possible. Gail became a nine-time world champion, three-time Olympic gold track and field medalist, and a five-time Olympian, and now a fierce advocate for raising awareness for Graves' disease,

which she was finally diagnosed with. She's made a name for herself as one of the fastest women alive for almost two decades, although the odds were seemingly against Gail when she discovered her diagnosis, from her health suffering greatly to her self-confidence taking a major hit as a result. And it made her recovery and comeback moment years later in the 92 Olympic Games in Barcelona even more special. But Gail's story is also so much bigger than running. She has become a fierce advocate to raise awareness for health, for agency in healthcare, and for Graves disease and its accompanying TED symptoms. In my chat with her today, we take it back to where it all first started,

remembering what motivated her to step back onto the track in the first place. And we make our way up to the moment that finally changed everything for Gail. Receiving that first diagnosis, we talk about how overwhelming yet crucial it was for her to serve as her own health advocate during her years-long search for answers, how goal setting played a role in her recovery and healing journey, and why it is so important for all of us to take back control of our lives against anything that tries to take it away from us. This Talk with Gail comes at a special time since July is also Graves Disease Awareness Month. So buckle in and come along for this ride with us today and learn how one woman was determined to finish the race that she started, even when her life depended on it.

So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. We'll be right back. Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. You have a very public history of a lot of different things that are running, of how you have grappled with graves and some of the things that have come from that over the years. I want to walk through some of those moments, but I'm also really curious when somebody seems to find something that grabs them at a young age and just takes hold and stays with them literally

for an entire lifetime. I'm always curious how that happens at the earliest moment. Sometimes it's these situations where a parent introduces you to something and then a parent forces you to do it until, you know, finally you get to a level where you're like, oh, actually I kind of like this. Or sometimes it's just, there's just organic gravitation. So I'm really curious with you. And if you look all the way back to the early days, what drew you initially to the notion of running? Actually, so my brother, who was 14 months older than I was, and he told me, basically, I was voluntold to run. He told me that you will run.

You know, I was back then I was 15. You didn't start high school until 10th grade. And unlike kids now at ninth grade. So the summer of my 10th grade year, he told me you're going to run. And I'm like, I didn't say I was running, you know? So we had this kind of fallout and he won because he's bigger than me. I always tell, don't beat up your little brothers or sisters. But yeah, that's basically what happened to me and went out for cross country. So he told me that I was going to go out for cross country because I had never run before and I needed to, you know, work on my endurance. And I went for cross country. So he told me that I was going to go out for cross country because I had never run before and I needed to work on my endurance. And I went to cross country.

And then when track season started, I was like, I'm not running two miles around the track. That's not going to happen. And so I tried to find another event that wasn't quite two miles. So I started with the 800 and I figured, okay, that's not as bad. We'll see what happens. And, you know, in my head, I was like, I'm going to be this famous distance runner. You know, I was always like, okay, I'm just going to go for it. And I ended up doing well though. I mean, I ran 211 at 15 and then each year somebody would suggest that I try a different event. And I went from the 800 to the 400 to the 300 meter hurdles, 100 meter hurdles, 100 long jump, triple jump, and then kind of just stayed

at the short sprints once I gravitated to college and beyond. My parents never pushed me. And it's funny that you ask that because, you know, now I've been voluntoed to coach at the high school and we never thought that my oldest daughter would ever play sports. I mean, ever. She's always been about, you know, I told them until you graduate from high school, your job is to go to school. And so it was all about, okay, school, school, school, you know, never miss a day of school. She's a straight A student, you know, has a high GPA, ranked really high in her class. And then she gets to high school and she says, oh, I need you to fill out this paper. I'm like, for what? She's like, I'm

going to go out for football. I'm like, girl, go sit down somewhere. And she's like, no, no, no, I want to play football. And I was like, make sure you tell the coaches that you don't have any idea what you're doing in sports. You are totally sports, like on that radar of not knowing. And I'm very fortunate that her coaches kind of took her under the wings, but she was like, I got this. I know, I know we play innings. I'm like, that's baseball, Carson. It's quarters. So that's, that tells you how, how bad they were to the point that when my husband, when they were young and my husband used to listen to like sports or whatever, and they'd walk through the room and they see a game on television, they're like, daddy, we're allergic to that channel, turn it. So they really didn't know

anything. So it was really surprising for her to take hold of sports. Now it's, she went from no sports to football, lacrosse, and track and field. And now she's developing a love and she's pretty good at the sports that she competes in. But people always ask, you know, like her friends, most of her friends have been running since they were like six. And they were like, why didn't I say? Because I never wanted that pressure on her. I didn't want it to be, you have to do it because I do it. I wanted her to find a love for it if she decided that she was going to do it. All I ask is whatever you do, give it your all. Put the same effort that you put towards your sports as you put towards your academic career and you'll be successful. Because success is not defined by who comes in first. It's defined by the effort.

And you can give your 100% effort and be a winner just by that. That's so interesting. When you think about your daughter coming to you and you thinking to yourself, it's almost like, well, I never want to set this thing where you feel like you're living in or competing or existing in the shadow of in any way, shape, or form. But it's so interesting to me also that she came to you and the first thing she wanted to try was football. Because there's like, what else is going on in that? Because that's not just about athletics, but it's also to a certain extent, making a statement about who she is. Oh yeah. She's forging her own path and it's great. I mean, it's flag football, you know, and now it's actually in Georgia High School Association. So it's a it's a recognized sport. You know, I've been trying to raise awareness for it so that it's not just any schools that give scholarships. I want Division One schools to be able to. Now, if a Division One school was given a scholarship, that's her first love. That's where she'd been. But because it's not, you know, she's gravitating and seeing, you know, the potential that she has in track and field.

But I watch because, you know, I didn't know if she was tough. I had no clue because all I know of her is what she does academically. And so to watch and not just her, I even say some of my track athletes, we encourage them to play football, you know, go out there, play flag football. And you see these mild, meek, just sweet little girls, and they get on the flag football field and they turn up, they turn into beasts. And I love it because it's even showing them a side of themselves that they probably didn't know that they had. It's great to see that side of them. And I love, like you said, she's forging her own path. She's doing what she wants to do. Like I said, or like you said, I don't want her living in the shadows. You know, her last name is Phillips. Yeah. Yeah. I stayed

with Deavers and a lot of people didn't even know the connection, which is awesome. So she's able to do what she wants to do and make her own mark. Yeah. I love that. So when you're a kid then, and beyond you being volunteered by your brother, once you start doing this, beyond the physical, the confidence that you gain from just being able to perform at higher and higher levels physically, do you feel like it was serving a role psychologically or emotionally or relationally for you at that age as well? I don't know if, you know, I'd have to go back to be Gail Devers at 15, but I will say the independence,

I always like running because of the freedom that it gave me. I've always been a goal setter. I have sticky notes. I write my goals down and it's a way for me to sign a contract with myself to say, this is something that I want to accomplish and I'm willing to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes for me to get that done. Because I think that's what life is about. It's about wanting to do something, not just aimlessly going through life. I have a purpose. There's a reason for me to get up in the morning. And in school, you've got, especially now these kids, they've got so much going on with COVID and all the things that they've had to deal with for me. Cause I even recently ran a half marathon and people were like, oh my gosh, you went from sprinter to half marathon. But I remember that freedom of going out. And that was

just my space where I could get out and I could just decompress because you need that. And I remember going on road runs and, you know, in high school and just where you could just be blank and just let the world go away and then come back and figure it out. And it kind of just re-energizes you. So that part of it, I do remember. And then just wanting to accomplish something to say, you know, and once you, you may not know what talents you have, but being willing to, you know, put yourself out there and see and challenge yourself. I've always been about challenges because people ask me, well, why did you hurdle? Cause you're kind of short. I was like, you know, I saw it as a challenge to say, you know, if

somebody says what I can't do, I want to prove to myself what I can do. And so that's what track and field was for me. It allowed for me to always be on a natural high where I was able to set a goal for myself and work hard to accomplish that goal. And then once I accomplished that goal, there's no greater feeling. So how do you duplicate that? You set a new goal and you start all over again. And each day, that's what gets me through it. Where does that ethos come from in you? Is that something, if you look at like your family, was that sort of like the family culture that you grew up in? It was. I always tell people, like our last name is Deavers, but I think we were leave it to beaver like the cleavers. And we had that, you know, everybody eats dinner at the same time at the

table. And this is what you do. You come home, you change out of your school clothes, you know, you get your homework done, you do your chores. And it was always about being degree. And so I would say absolutely. And then you just take things and you internalize them for yourself to make it work for you. And I believe that that's what I've done throughout my whole life. So for you that, I mean, that shows up and you start to really channel it into the world of track. And it sounds like it takes a little bit of time trying. It's almost like you're trying on different things. I'm going to try on the longer distance. I'm going to try on. And then eventually, you start to narrow it down, narrow it down to the 100 and the 100 hurdle. And then you start to perform at extraordinary levels. You end up in UCLA, running track and training for the Olympics are coming up. As a kid, at what point, and I know this may be a hard question to answer.

You start because it's part of the family ethos. Your brother's like, you're going to do this. Then you start to play around and then you start to feel good. And there's the confidence of performing at a high level and the power and the freedom of doing that. Then when a notion of Olympics starts to come into it, how does that change things for you? So I'll even take you back to how I started. We lived in apartment complexes where we had the playground in the middle of maybe four or five. And my brother used to always make me come outside because I was a homebody. I'd stay in the house playing with my dolls or reading. I loved to read. And he'd make me come out and set up match. I always said he was like the Don King of our neighborhood. He would set up match races with me and the other

kids and I'd run. So in his opinion, he always knew that I was fast. He'd make me make obstacle courses where run up the slide, run down the slide and jump over the little horses that are in there. So he tells people, you know, later on, he told people that he was my first coach and he had me going over hurdles early, you know, so he always thought that he knew that I was fast because I would beat all the girls. Then he had me racing the guys, I'd beat some of the guys. And so that's the path that he saw for me. For me, once I started running, it was just, you know, this is something to do. Now, the Olympics was always history, something you read about, but not something you actually participated in. And I will even say in middle school, well, back then it was called junior high school. I believe we were in seventh grade. We had to go to the library and we had to pick a

book. And I guess that competitive nature, I was like, okay, I want to be the first one. So I don't have to stand in line with 25, 30 kids. So I walked past looking for a book and there was a book that was kind of sticking out and I must've bumped it because it fell. And I was like, I got my book, picked up the book and went and checked it out. Didn't even look at it. Then when I got outside while we were waiting for everyone else, I looked and this meant nothing to me at the time, but the book was the Wilma Rudolph story. And the irony of that was, yeah. And so I read it because I thought it was fascinating to be one of 22 kids. Oh my gosh, what's the bathroom lines have to look like? And I just thought the story itself was fascinating. And I ended up keeping the book and I always tell people I did pay for it I ended up keeping the book and I always tell

people I did pay for it, but I kept the book and I read it every year because it was inspirational on any level. Just that if you think your life is a certain way, look at what this girl has accomplished and what she's willing to do, driving from where she lived in Tennessee to get treatment every day on the bus with her mom. So it served as an inspiration to me just in general. Meant nothing to me about the Olympic Games because I had no knowledge or anything. But as I tried on the different events and then to be able to get a scholarship. Now, I was the first from my high school to get a scholarship as far as females. And that was, you know, I would tell people I was a title nine baby and very appreciative of it to go to college, to be a part

of a team. Because by the time we got to in high school, our state championships, there was only me as far as females. And so for me to go to UCLA, it was a great honor just to be a part of a team, you know, to run, being a part of this team and to be able to place well and have people doing the same thing with me. And so my coach, Bob Kersey, who I was very fortunate that he was the coach at UCLA, you know, he came to me and telling me, you know, I think that you have a shot of going to the Olympics. Now, to be honest, during that time, I was like, okay, that's what coaches the Olympics. Now, to be honest, during that time, I was like, okay, that's what coaches do. They're supposed to sing your praises and make you think you can do everything. And I always tell people, even though I wasn't, I tell people from the show

me state, okay, show me. I'm going to do everything this man says. And if it doesn't work out, I'm going to come back and say, hey, you said, you know, I remember you saying I was a diamond in the rough. So, okay, I'm going to help you chisel that roughness away and see if there's a diamond underneath. And I started, you know, just doing everything that he wanted me to do and started seeing times progress, me getting faster bit by bit, understanding what my body could do, understanding what I was supposed to do in several places in my races. And then I set it as a goal that, you know what? I remember watching the 1984 Olympic games and that was my senior year. And after that, probably about 1985,

I decided that, okay, this seems like something I could do. I'm gonna write it down. And then I signed it like it was a contract that I signed with myself, which means that I'm willing to do whatever for as long as I have to, to see that that becomes, you know, reality. And then making my first Olympic games in 1988. But then the bottom fell out, I tell people. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun.

January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot?

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The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. So let's talk about that because everything's sort of setting up for you. You're working incredibly hard. You've got part of a phenomenal team, an incredible coach who has confidence that you can perform at the highest possible level. And you're doing it. Like you said, you're doing everything that you were invited to

do. And it's actually yielding results. And you're setting up for the 88 Olympics and everything feels like it's going well. And then as you just shared, the bottom falls out. So walk me through this. I think it was May of 1988. I actually broke the collegiate record in the 100 meter hurdles. And I broke it several times. And my ending time was 12.61. So I had the American record and the collegiate record. So going into the Olympic Games, I was primed very well to, you know, if this girl just does what she what we know she can do, she could be a medalist.

And as I say, I say the bottom fell out because once I got to the Olympic trials, things weren't going well. I was having issues of forgetting and hamstring injuries, just all kinds of things. And I'll fast forward you to the Olympic Games. I made the team, and I always say by the grace of God fast forward you to the Olympic games. I made the team. And I always say by the grace of God that I get to the Olympic games and I ran slower than the first time I ran those hurdles, stepping on the track. There's something wrong. I go back home and I go to, from doctor to doctor. Now this becomes a two and a half year process of me trying to find answers. I think as an athlete, you know, your body better than the doctor you may see once or twice a year. So you've got to be vigilant in saying, I need to get help.

Went to several doctors, several doctors being told that there was nothing wrong. So two and a half years later, I finally was diagnosed. And all I wanted during this time was to catch up to Gail Devers. So I was finally diagnosed with something called Graves' disease. And even during with the Graves' disease, I had, you know, and I will say this was just as my career was taking off. And I knew something wasn't right. You know, I was rapidly losing weight. I was tired all the time. I couldn't sleep. I had eye issues where the symptoms were. I had large eyes. They were bulging, they were always red, they were irritated. When I slept, they didn't close all the time. And so this two and a half year journey of back and forth to the doctors, them telling me nothing was wrong. Finally, in 1990, I was diagnosed with Graves' disease, which is an autoimmune disease that causes hyperthyroidism. From that two years after that, I won my first gold medal. Yeah. So I want to talk about that two and a half year window though,

because you kind of roll through it now as if, well, it was this two and a half year thing, I was diagnosed. But this is you who clearly has this mindset of, I can accomplish, I will work incredibly hard to accomplish anything and I can do it. I've seen myself do it. And when you start to see your body effectively rebelling against this, and as you just shared, you're an athlete, you know your body better than anyone else. And you start to see medical professionals. What's going on during that two and a half, because two and a half years is a long time. So over two and a half years, well, first, are you able to run? Are you able to move?

Are you continuing to try and push through this? Or had you kind of stepped aside and just said, I don't know what's happening? Well, when I first came back from Seoul, I was definitely still trying to run, just take a little bit of time off and come back, get ready for my next season. It just wasn't working. My normal running weight was between 120, 125, if I ready for my next season. It just wasn't working. My normal running weight was between 120, 125, if I could keep that weight on. And I started losing so much weight that I stopped getting on the scale. Now at my worst, and I don't know how much I lost because like I said, I stopped

getting on the scale. But the last time I got on the scale, I was one scale said 82, one said 79. There's something wrong. Right. You literally lost a third of your body weight. And I'm sure a lot of that was muscle. That's what it was. You know, I had, you know, atrophy. I was, so you asked, could I continue to run? I was pulling my hamstrings jogging. I lost so much of my muscle tone. It was like, you know, when you first lose weight, it's like, okay, that's kind of cute. And a friend of mine, we used to always go to this store. It was like a little kid's store and we'd always buy each other a gift every year around our birthday time. It's like, okay, you have to try to put it on. Now, you know, you can't fit

that, you know, but you try to do it. So it got to the point where now I can fit this. This is not funny. My hair was falling out. Obviously, the eyes were bulging and it was like scaliness on my face. It got to the point where it's like, okay, I don't know that person that I'm looking at in the mirror. I don't like that person that is looking back at me. And I'm going to, you know, I see people, I stop going out because I see people who maybe have not seen me for a while and they would ask, oh my gosh. Or if they didn't say anything, they'd look at me like, like I'm shocking them. And I guess I was because the skeletal person that I saw every morning shocked me. I stopped going out because I got tired of answering the questions of, oh my gosh, what happened to you? What's wrong? Are you anorexic? Are you on drugs?

Those who are brave enough to ask me those questions. And the only answer that I can tell you is no, I'm not. No, I'm not. No, I'm not. Have you seen a doctor? Yes, I have. Yes, I have. What did they say?

They said there's nothing wrong. Clearly, there's something wrong. So imagine, I always tell people, I'm big about stepping in somebody else's shoes and imagining what they could be going through. And like you said, two and a half years is a very long time. It's a very long time to have no answers. You know, with my grave disease, I tell people,

the hardest part about having the grave disease was the not knowing, was the uncertainty of where is my future? What am I supposed to do? What can I do? I don't look the same. I don't feel the same. I covered my mirrors. I remember the last time I went out, I even had what looks like vitiligo. I always tell people I had like, my hair was falling out. I had splotches. And I went to the park because I used to just go to the park or the beach, wherever I could go just to decompress. And I was sitting there and it was after one of my appointments and a little boy was playing. And I guess he ran by me and saw me and

ran to his mom and said, mommy, mommy, what's wrong with her? She looks like a monster. That was it. That was it for me. I stopped going out. That was totally it. I remember having to come out to go to the school for some reason. To this day, everybody asked me and I was like, I don't even remember why I had to come out, but I had to go to the athletic department. And you usually have team physicians that are assigned to you. So I went in and I saw our team physician. I just kind of poked my head in and she beckons me to wait. And I'm like, oh my gosh, here we go again. Somebody's going to, I did not want to wait. And I'm like, oh my gosh, here we go again. Somebody's going to, I did not want to wait because I'm going to have to answer all the same questions

of what's going on. And she finishes talking, hug her. And I was just waiting for her to say something. And she said, I don't want to alarm you, but I think you have a very serious problem with your thyroid. First time I'd ever heard of it. So I went in, you know, told me, you know, the tests that I needed to have done. And it had gotten so bad that like this two and a half years, I was making appointments, going through my provider book saying, okay, this person's name sounds interesting. Let's see if he or she knows what they're talking about. And that's basically how I was making my appointments. And this was a Tuesday and I had an appointment on that Thursday to go in. And at least I felt like, okay, I got some, there is something wrong with me, you know, and, and imagine for two and a half years being told there's

nothing wrong that you're making it up in your head. You think you're going crazy. And finally to have ammo that there is something wrong. I had written a resignation letter to my coach saying, I feel like I'm taking up all your time out here, you know. And so I remember playing back and forth like, OK, should I just whip out this piece of paper and say this is the test I need done? Or shall I wait? And which I finally decided. I said, I'm just going to wait and let him. This was a gentleman. Let him go through his whole little spiel of I'm sorry Ms. Devers, there's nothing wrong with you. And then I'm going to whip out my paper. And so I sat there, he came in and I remember because feeling like, okay, I'm ready for this until he knocked on the door and I'm like, you know, they knock on the door

and make sure you're good. And I was like, come in. And he came in and I couldn't wait. I just handed him the paper and he just looked at me, you know, and the paper was folded up. He looked at me and very calmly, he said, I said, this is the test I need to have. And he said, I don't need your paper. I can tell you're a walking thyroid disorder. And I just, the tears started falling. And it was an answered prayer for me because I had wanted, like I said, I just wanted to catch up to Gail. I wanted to feel like the old Gail Devers and I did not. On the track side, I left her running 12.61.

On the regular side, I just left her where I was always this energetic person. I was always happy and I wasn't that anymore. And I needed to get back to that because I felt like she was sinking. So for him to tell me that, I'm like, finally, finally. And then he says it's Graves' disease. I'm like, what is that? I didn't know what it was, but it had to be better than where I was because at least now I'm under a doctor's care. And so I'll fast forward now that living with this and all the things, you know, I was like, I'm beginning to get my life back

on track because that's what I wanted. Or so I thought. Fast forward now, all the residual effects or the things that I was still, because I still had eye issues. I still had the pain and my eyes were red and having to answer questions from people like, do you have allergies? No, I don't. Just any and every question you ever thought about somebody asking you because you still look different. And so I thought that all the things that I was going through, my eyes still didn't close when I slept and they were still really, I felt like I had to focus hard. It was just eye strain and very tender to touch that, you know what, these are residual effects for my disease, but I'm alive. So I guess I just have to deal with that because the alternative is not

worth it. And it wasn't until last year, this has been 30 years of me dealing with my Graves' disease. And no one ever told me or even mentioned that my eye symptoms were separate from my Graves' disease. Related but separate. And last year, just last year, 30 years, we talked about the two and a half years of being not knowing with the Graves' disease. So now imagine 30 years of dealing with everything else and not knowing that I have something called thyroid eye disease and that it needs to be treated by a TED specialist, eye specialist. It's like an oculoplastic surgeon or a neuro-ophthalmologist.

And I'm on a mission right now because I always tell people I'm a sprinter. And as a sprinter, my goal is to get to the finish line real fast. And here I am taking the marathon route of 30 years where what I thought was just residual effects and I have to deal with it. I'm finding out that I didn't have to. And I'm telling people that if you have Graves' disease, because the statistics tell us that if you have Graves' disease, up to 50% of people with Graves' disease may develop TED. And those symptoms, what I know firsthand is that those symptoms have a very profound effect on your self-confidence. So I'm telling you to pay attention to your eye health and your mental health.

I guess, ironically, that it is Mental Health Awareness Month, but I go back to walking in my shoes 30 years back. And had I known I could have been treated sooner, I got to the point because you have quality of life and everybody deserves that. And what my thyroid eye disease, the grave disease I'm dealing with, I'm being treated. So being under a doctor's care is working. But my thyroid eye disease for 30 years has been on its own program. I call him Ted. I have an unwanted guest in my house and he's causing havoc where my eyes started giving me so much trouble that even now, don't drive at nighttime. Was totally excited for my daughter to hurry up and turn 16 to get her license so that I could pretend like, oh yeah, I want you to drive me around at night because I was too embarrassed

to tell my husband when we would go on road trips, I'd say, oh, I'll take the first ship in the daytime because I didn't want him to know that because I don't have an answer of why I don't drive at nighttime. I don't want to tell him that the lights from the cars that are coming at me are causing so much strain on my eyes. And it was embarrassing. I didn't want to tell him that, you know, I'm constantly putting in drops and doing it secretly so that people don't know because I get tired of people asking me if I have allergies and I don't have allergies. Get tired of people asking me the different questions. Why do your eyes look like that? I don't have an answer. Having no answers is the worst part. And mentally, it eats at you. I always tell people if I could describe how I feel going through the things that I've

gone through for the last 30 years, it's like being in a box and somebody closing the box and then sitting on top of the box and inviting their friends to come and sit on top of that box. And you know how if it's a box and it's not taped, you see just a sliver of light, but you can't get out. They're not letting you out. And you can punch and punch and punch and you can't get out. That little sliver of light that I found was last year when I was able to go to a website because I like doing research. And I'm like, why are my eyes constantly doing this? I mean, I always have on sunglasses. It's not

because I think I'm cute. It's because, first of all, so people don't keep asking me about it. Why are your eyes red all the time? You know, do you have pink eye? Do you have this? Do you have allergies? No, it's because so I don't have to answer those questions. You know, I don't drive at night. So that's taken part of me. And I'm used to getting up, going and doing what I want to do. And now I know it's not safe for me to do that. And like I said, I do research and I finally found this website just asking questions and it popped up and it said, you know, I took a survey, take a survey and check off the boxes. I'm like, oh gosh, that's me. That's me. That's me. That's me. And then it said, you can find like a eye specialist that deals with, it was called thyroid eye disease. And if you possibly have this, because you have all these other symptoms and I can find, put in my zip code and find a TED specialist in my area. So I did it, went in and was diagnosed. And that was that sliver of the light in that box that now I

felt like I was able to punch through. And since then, it's just trying to regain my life and wanting other people to be able to do that. And so I recently, like I've always been a goal oriented. Like I said, I write my goals down on sticky notes. I always have scratch notes or a notepad or a journal. And maybe that started when I was little because I had a diary and just write my thoughts down. And I recently wrote a letter to Ted. I called it my dear Ted letter because I like it. Thyroid, eye disease, his name is Ted. And I let him know that he was an unwanted guest in my house. It's like having somebody be a renter and never paying rent, causing havoc and tearing up stuff and never apologizing,

never being helpful, never even leaving. And so I was able to write this letter and I mean, I let him have it. And just to get it all out for me was a very empowering experience for me. And I always tell people now, I'm like, you know, I let him know he's got to go because I got to take back control of my life. That part that I gave away because of the uncertainty and the no answers now that I have it. And I'm encouraging other people. And I want to thank you, too, for allowing me a platform to be able to express the things with somebody complaining about these symptoms. And you can say, hey, that might be Graves' disease.

Or if you know someone who has Graves' disease, knowing the statistics that up to 50% of people with Graves' disease may develop thyroid eye disease because it's related, but it's separate. So you can't think that your Graves' disease doctor is going to diagnose you with that. You need to pay attention and focus on your eye health. And that's the advice that I give, you know, anyone going through this. And I always tell people, I ran the relay and that relay has that baton and in that baton is knowledge. And so I'm passing that knowledge on to you.

And with all your followers, you're going to pass that around and we can help save people's mental and physical health, that we're going to get our lives back on track sooner. We're going to regain that confidence and that quality of life that we so deserve. So I tell people, you know, we've got a campaign, submit your dear Ted letter, or even if it's not you, I'm encouraging people, if you're living with it or you're affected by somebody who's living with it, you can write a letter to Ted and telling Ted what you've watched from the outside. What you think that person is going through or how it's changed your best friend or your wife or your husband or whomever dealing with that. And then be able to read other people's letters. Because now this is a community of people going through the same thing, and it's going to help us get back to where we need to get.

It's interesting too, right? Because you're talking about something which also is potentially a model. Your personal experience and the people that you've been in community with have these two conditions, Graves and then Ted. Right. What you're really talking about is a model that's applicable for anybody who's going through anything. Oh, yes. So your version of this may be something entirely different, but it's so interesting to me because the notion of literally naming, like giving it a personality that exists inside of you. Like, right. So let's actually like give it a name and a personality and then have a relationship where you say,

I'm going to do something that in some way gives me power. Like I'm going to take back some power over this and I'm going to write to it. I'm going to speak to it. And then let's build a community around it. I mean, the bigger model that you're talking about, even beyond your immediate conditions, I think is relevant to everybody because we are all going to have or go through something at some point. There's something else also that's sort of like spinning

in my head as you're describing first that two and a half year window and then this 30 year period since then. And it's the notion for lack of a better word, medical gaslighting. I have a dear friend of mine who's a, she's a functional medicine doctor. She's brilliant. She works very often. A lot of her practice is women. And she was researching a recent book and she was sharing some of the research with me on the amount of non-acknowledgement of symptoms and true conditions, especially with women who come into the medical profession, especially with women of color. It's like the stats just get worse and worse and worse. And she was like, she said she sees it in her office with women coming to her as a last resort after they've been through a lot of

other people. And I wonder if at any point during those first two and a half years or over this 30 year window, when you finally discover 30 years later on your own, through your own research, whether you felt a similar sense of that at moments along the way? Oh, definitely. When your self-confidence is taken away, because when you go in and you explain, you know, we rely on the medical profession to help us. And if you go in and you explain the symptoms that you're having and you cannot get a proper diagnosis and they're telling, well, maybe, you know, as an athlete, you know, you peak too many times, you start to believe, okay, well, maybe I did. Or you look at the weight gain or

the weight loss, depending on what you have. And you're like, okay, well, maybe it's because of this. You start to question yourself. And I think for me, when I go back to it, like, okay, well, maybe it's because of this. You start to question yourself. And I think for me, when I go back to it, like I said, I had covered mirrors and all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, nobody understands how I feel. And if this is my new state of normal, then why? I can't do any of the things that I wanted to do. I can't run anymore. And I'm very detailed as far as when I set a goal for myself,

I think about it, I pray about it and I try to set a realistic goal of something that I can work to accomplish and that's taken away from me. It's not in my hands anymore and you're telling me that the goal that I really, really thought about that that's not going to happen and it's not because there's something wrong with me,

it's just because that's not gonna happen. I find that going to happen. And it's not because there's something wrong with me. It's just because that's not going to happen. I find that hard to swallow. I feel like you're just not listening. I promise you, you see my hair falling out. It wasn't because I went to a bad hairdresser. I was a college student, didn't have money. I'm losing weight. You have to explain why that's happening because it even got to the point where I was losing so much weight. It's like, okay, I'm going to eat all the stick to your ribs food. I got the peanut butter because I don't like peanut butter and jelly. So I got the peanut butter. I've got anything that's going to make you like the comfort food to making you gain weight. And I'm still losing weight. And I'm telling you this and you're still telling me, well,

maybe it's because I think you're not listening to me and I think I'm going to somebody else. Now, I will say the positive part for me was, you know, for a while I was very low. And you talk about the mental part of it because I was believing that this is the profession they know and they're telling me that there's nothing wrong, then there's something wrong with me. Maybe I am crazy. Maybe I am making all of this up. And it wasn't until the one day that I thought about, I didn't look like her, that person that I don't want to look at in the mirror. I didn't look like her just a very short time ago. I definitely didn't feel like her because that's not me. Something's wrong. You don't know what you're talking about. And I got to be vigilant. I have to be my own health

advocate. I've got to go from person to person to person to person, which is what set me off on this two and a half year journey to find. You don't go from running an American record to running slower than you've ever run from the first time you stepped on the track. It does not work like that. There's something wrong. And I'm very thankful that I was able to finally, because it wasn't in the beginning, but finally to pick myself up and say, you know what? And those goals that I had written for myself, they were a little dusty after three years. But I was able to brush them off, re-sign them, and get back to work. But my thought is that there are people, like you said, not just with Graves' disease and thyroid eye disease. There are people living with chronic conditions every day.

COVID. We've all had to make adjustments and found ourselves in that question mark era where what do we do? What does our future look like? What can I do? How are things going to change? What does that mean for me? And the no answer area is what bothers us. And so to alleviate some of that suffering, we've got to find answers. My answer for what I went through and for those who might know someone who's going through Graves' disease or thyroid eye disease is to, if you have Graves' disease, pay attention to your eye health. Write a letter. Take back control of your life. Be your own advocate. It's like back in the day when you heard a knocking on your car and you took it in and then the knocking wasn't there. You're like, no, I promise you, I promise you something's wrong with this. It's the same thing. So I always say, you know, that's my thing about writing in a journal or writing down. If I feel something today that

doesn't feel right, I write it down because I may not remember to tell my doctor everything that I felt from appointment to appointment. Also, when I make an appointment for a doctor, when they come in, we have to have a conversation. You cannot just rush me through because I need you to know what's been going on in my life because maybe there's a trigger that you can hear that can pick up and say, hmm, let's check this out or let's check on this. We have one life to live and we deserve that best quality of life. So we got to help each other. It's a community of people helping each other to get to the other side. Yeah, I love that. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be We'll be right back. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary so when you have the initial diagnosis and then by the way getting the diagnosis of graves back then wasn't like oh okay so now everything's great now we're talking about okay so what do we do with this it's thyroid hormone placement with therapy that you know

consideration of thyroidectomy, it's potential radiation, it's potential all these different things. So there's a whole, there's a course of treatment and then there's things for the rest of your life. So on the one hand, you've gone through this and finally you've got an answer. Finally, somebody is telling you,

yes, there's something going wrong here and here's the name. And then this is what we're going to do about it. And then you start to actually move through the treatment, which I understand was brutal in a lot of ways for you. You go through it, though. At some point, if I have this right, part of the conversation is literally a conversation with a doctor about potentially amputating your feet.

Yeah. Well, you know, everybody's situation is different. It's like, I always tell people, everybody who gets the cold, it does not turn into pneumonia. So you can't say that my particular experience is going to be everyone's experience. I did go through a lot. I went through some rough things. And as an athlete, if the thought of, you know, losing your feet, but what I will say from that is I had those goals and my goal was to go back to the Olympic games. And so I remember even in that period where I was being diagnosed and figuring out what type of, you know, treatment we're going to do to make sure that this girl can maybe get back because the thought was you'll never run again. You possibly will never run again. My goal was, okay, I'm going

to the Olympic Games. I set this as a goal. I will figure out how I'm going to get back if it's with the Paralympics, however, but I'm going to accomplish my goals and dreams. And I think that's my message to people is and why I'm so big about writing stuff down. Not just write down your thoughts, but write down your goals and then sign them. Because that means to me, it's like I have a suit of armor on now. And regardless of what comes and Murphy's law going through these last 30 years, I definitely understand what Murphy's law. Anything that can go wrong probably will go wrong, but I don't want it to take away from me. I don't want to lose sight of me.

I still want to be that happy-go-lucky person and just understand that this may come, this may come, this may come, but what am I going to do? How do I still accomplish the goals and the dreams that I've set for myself? And I'll take you back from having all this happen and wondering if I'll ever run again to fast forward to 1992, where I was still having my issues, but I was at the Olympic Games. I had made my second Olympic Games. I was in lane two. And back then, if they thought that you were the one to win, they gave you lanes four, five, and six. So lane two. And back then, if they thought that you were the one to win, they gave you lanes four, five, and six. So lane two kind of lets you know that they didn't expect anything out of me.

But it's about my visualization, about my belief in myself. It's not what other people believe about you. It's what you believe about yourself and what you're willing to work for for as long as you're willing to work for it. In my comeback, I remember not being able to walk for a while, so being on the track on my stationary bike. And when everybody else warmed up, I rode the stationary bike. When they did

sprints, I went faster. When they cooled down, I went slower. Couldn't lift weights in the weight room, so back then they had the big telephone books. So I had a telephone book. I put it on my hamstring, strap it up with like an ace bandage, and I do hamstring curls, whatever I could to mentally get myself back to where I knew that I needed to be. And this was only 19 or 18 to 19 months before the Barcelona Olympic Games, when you're being told you may not ever run again. And to be there in lane two, I don't care. It's not like in lane two, I was going to run further than anyone else. I'm in lane two.

I visualize from that time when you said what I couldn't do to the moment where I'm in the blocks. I remember one of my rounds, you know, you had four rounds back then. One of my rounds that I ran, I was still feeling some stuff and I couldn't feel my legs. It was really weird. And I remember my coach saying, what happened? I said, it felt weird. He said, well, you can feel your arms, right? I said, yeah. He said, well, then you better work your arms and tell your feet to keep up. And it was that whole concept of you prayed for an answer that maybe came later than we wanted, but you're back. What are you going to do with that opportunity? You got to make the most of that opportunity.

I'm at the Olympic games. That's what I wrote on my paper. That's what I signed. I'm going to see myself crossing the finish line, regardless of what other people see me doing. I see myself finishing these races and I'm a winner by my attitude. I'm a winner by my, not by the placing, but by my performance, by my effort. And I remember getting across the finish line and I think there were probably maybe three people in the world that believed that I could do it.

And I was one of those people, most importantly. I remember taking, they always tell you, you of those people, most importantly. I remember taking, they always tell you, you know, take a victory lap. I remember taking a victory lap and the guy with the big camera was following and I was rolling. I mean, I was running fast on my victory lap. He's like, slow down. You're supposed to savor the moment. I said, you better keep up because you don't know what I've gone through, you know? And it was just that joyous time of, I've accomplished this. That goal of going from the 12.61 American record holder, collegiate student, and athlete in 1988 to being on top of a mountain. My whole life to look forward to. And I felt like somebody came and took the mountain away.

Climbing my way back up, trying to get back in control, trying to catch up to the old Gail, winning a gold medal, going to five Olympic games, still having issues, having hard times, seeing the hurdle. I always felt like I was looking through what I always say, like fashion, like it was really cloudy. And I just thought that that's something

that I had to deal with, but still trying to accomplish my goals. And I just thought that that's something that I had to deal with, but still trying to accomplish my goals. And then realizing that, okay, things are changing. My sight is getting worse. All this stuff is going on. I don't know what's going on. Let me, let me find a way around it.

Let me say, okay, I like to drive, but you go ahead. I'll drive first. I want to drive so much that I want to get it taken care of. And then we can share the drive and you can take this route. Once we get five, six hours into the trip, you go ahead. Because now it's getting nighttime and I didn't have to say it's nighttime. I'll just say I drove long enough, go ahead. And finding other ways around it, but still trying to not let it suck everything away from me. But when you're at home by yourself, you're thinking about, is something still just not right? And wow, but this is how I got to deal with it.

Yeah. It's like that never goes away with you, despite the fact that you return. And by the way, it absolutely bears saying the 92 Olympics finish one of the most iconic in sports history, like a five-person photo. So when you decided to come back, you did it in a big way, not intentionally, but it's this legendary moment. And then you repeat again. And like you said, there has been decades now of you just stepping into this role and running and being an advocate and a voice and reclaiming, like being the Gale you knew you always were over and over and over and over. And that's led you even to this recent year

where you're like, well, there's still this one other thing going on. You know, I realize we're sort of like, we're coming towards the end of our time. And I want to ask you about something else as well, which is, you know, we're in a moment right now where mental health has really become centered in a lot of our conversations.

And for sure, it's become centered in the conversation about young athletes, especially young women athletes with the 20 Tokyo Olympics, Simone Biles, Chloe Kim taking time off from snowboarding, Shikari Richardson going through a really brutal time and taking a substance to try and help herself be able to be okay, and then having to pay a price for that. I feel like it's interesting in that there's a different conversation happening

around the level of stress and pressure and anxiety and how it's affecting the mental health of young athletes. It feels to me like there's a realer acknowledgement of the humanity and the need to center a conversation around it. And to talk about this in a way that I haven't really heard before. I'm curious just like what your lens is on this moment and that topic. Definitely. You know, you talk about athletes and people see athletes on television or in their realm and you think that they're invincible. Well, I know for certain that

that's not true. And you hear people say, you just got to tough it out because you know that they're invincible. Well, I know for certain that that's not true. And you hear people say, you just got to tough it out because you're performing. But a person is a person and you feel things. As an athlete, I'll even talk about my thyroid eye disease. I always tell people,

I always have to be camera ready, but yet I've got drops. I've got glasses. I've got all this stuff that makes me not camera ready. You want to be tough, but yet I've got drops. I've got glasses. I've got all this stuff that makes me not camera ready. You want to be tough, but you're human. And at a certain point, we as athletes have to let ourselves know that it's okay. My form of being tough in one sense was not telling my husband why I didn't want to drive at nighttime. I didn't, you don't want people to

think any less of you. You think you got to get it done. We don't wear a superhero cape or S on our chest. We're like everybody else we're going through it. We just have a different, you know, you may see us on television, but we're still going through a lot of things. Everybody's going through something. The conversation has to be had. Sometimes you just need to stop and breathe. We need to have communities of people with like minds that will help us get through things in an easier way than us self-destructing or taking actions that may be self-destructive for us or not in our best

interests. But if we don't talk about it and you do it all on your own, sometimes we don't make the best decisions for our own selves. Find someone that you can just talk to, a shoulder that you can lean on, whether it be in the professional realm or going through it with you. Sometimes you feel like you're by yourself and nobody understands. That's how I felt for a very long time. Nobody else understands. I keep reaching out and nobody can tell me, oh, Gail, I got you. I went through this or my aunt went through this or, and this is what they did. This is what helped them, which is why we band together now as communities. In addition to the medical profession that will help you, you need people because the medical profession may not be the ones who's going through it. They know how to treat you, but you don't know what I'm feeling when I go home at

night. You don't know what it feels like to have a migraine headache that just never, ever, ever goes away. You don't know what it feels like to have people look at you and either want to say something and they don't, or say something that they probably shouldn't. You know, when I used to like volunteer at schools and the biggest thing like we talk about is when you have a piece of paper, like telling young kids in elementary school to use kind words, or just to be mindful of what you say, how you say it, because everything that you say that in your opinion, maybe that wasn't such an unkind word, but you don't know how somebody's taking it. Every time somebody asks me, do you have, you know, what's wrong with your eyes? Why do you look like that? Or every person who told me there was nothing wrong with me, do you have, you know, what's wrong with your eyes? Why do you look like that? Or every person

who told me there was nothing wrong with me, maybe you're making this up is a wrinkle and another wrinkle. You can say, oh, I'm sorry. When you tell them that you have Graves disease or thyroid eye disease and spread that out, but the wrinkles are still there. It still has an effect. So you need someone else in that community that you can talk to and say, you know what? I went through that. And you know what helped me? Writing. I wrote it down. I wrote how it felt when people asked me these questions, how it felt when I looked at myself in the mirror, how it felt when I still had to go out there and compete where the hurdles that I was going over and trying to get over, thank goodness, is a rhythm race because I really couldn't see the hurdles that I had to get over. And those symbolically became the hurdles that I

have to get over in life. And I have to take it one hurdle at a time, step by step, day by day. I know the hurdle's not going to move, so I got to go through it. I got to go over it. I got to go under it. I got to find a way to get to the other side. I have to keep looking for that finish line. I have to remember being in that box, but still seeing that little bit of light and being willing, knowing that my life, my career, my everyday existence is worth me punching through and continuing to punch through until I can get myself out. And that's why I say I'm a big advocate. Write it down and share it. I'll say I want anybody who has Graves' disease or you know somebody who has Graves' disease, focus on your eye health because

you may be one of those that thyroid eye disease becomes a part of you. And I don't want you to do the marathon route like I did and wait 30 years because it would have been so much better had I got that treatment 30 years ago when I was going through my treatment and you know for my Graves disease but write it down go to you know there's a website and if I if it's okay for me to leave a website with everybody submit your dear Ted letters tell Ted how you feel and if it's not the Graves disease and the thyroid eye disease, whatever it is in your life, submit a letter, go to deartedletter.com, write how you feel, read my letter because I went in on him, share it with others, write your own. I would love to go there and it's going to help me to hear other people that have

gone through some of the things that I went through and that we're all taking back control of our lives and not letting this get to us and try to figure out how to live the good life. Which is the perfect segue, I think, for us to come full circle in our conversation. So in this container of good life project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life,

what comes up? To live a good life is to be able to be me. It is to understand that we have one life to live and everybody deserves the best quality of life. How do you do that? You know, what distinguishes people is access and opportunity. So I want to give everybody the opportunity that from my experiences and everything stems from something that you've gone through.

So in my experience of my 30 years, I've learned, be your own advocate. If you feel something, say something. If it doesn't feel right or if somebody tells you something that doesn't feel right, keep going at it. Be persistent. Once you find, keep going at it. Be persistent. Once you find the answer, share it. You got to share it because you're helping somebody else.

We're all on this relay in life. And in mine, it's about what's inside my baton is knowledge. It's experience of what I've gone through through and I want to take that and adopt a whole bunch of relay runners and I'm going to pass the baton you know when you're running a relay you say stick and they put their hand back and they get that baton and they pass it on to someone else and why are we doing that because it's all of us acting as one and we see the finish line and we got to get to the finish line and get past the finish line. And then we're all in that winner's circle.

And that's the quality of life. And that means that we all now, for me going back, catching up to the old Gail Devers, I'm still catching her, but I'm catching her every day, little more, a little more, a little more. And we're all going to end up in the winner's circle.

That's what living the good life is. Every day waking up knowing that not only am I helping myself, but I'm helping somebody else because I believe that my life is about service and I want to touch somebody's life and make a difference. And if I can do that on my goals, I am living the good life and I'll put my name to it and sign it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Hey, before you leave, if you love this episode, safe bet you will also love the conversation that we had with my dear friend Rich Roll about his life, about his navigating his journey through addiction and recommitting himself to health and wellness and eventually becoming an ultra endurance athlete. You'll find a link to Rich's episode in the show notes.

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with more ease and more joy. Tell them to listen. Then even invite them to talk about what you've both discovered. Because when podcasts become conversations and conversations become action, that's how we all come alive together. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,

whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary.

Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is?

You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk.