Good Life Project - Healing Trauma: Powerful Insights and Strategies That Work | Spotlight Convo

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

Have you ever felt stuck in past trauma or like you had to hide your true self? Join Alex Elle, bestselling author of How We Heal, and Arielle Estoria, author of The Unfolding, as they share profound insights on writing as a catalyst for radical self-love, befriending fear, and peeling back layers to reclaim your vibrant, unapologetic identity.Episode TranscriptYou can find Alex at: Website | Instagram | Listen to Our Full-Length Convo with AlexYou can find Arielle at: Website | Instagram | Listen to Our Full-Length Convo with ArielleCheck out our offerings & partners: Join My New Writing Project: Awake at the WheelVisit Our Sponsor Page For Great Resources & Discount Codes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When we heal ourselves, we heal our lineage. When we heal ourselves, we heal each other. You've suppressed this person. This person has always existed. This roar has always been there. And yet you never had space or permission to allow it to unleash. So have you ever felt like you had to hide who you were or were in some way stuck in the past and some trauma that's keeping you from truly living? If so, today's powerful spotlight conversation is for you. The person you've been staring at, this person in the mirror, is still you, but looks just slightly different and yet so familiar. I think the world tries to shame us for going backwards.

We're diving into the journeys of two inspiring guides who have walked the path of profound healing and self-reclamation. Alex L. shares how writing became her path to self-love after trauma, and Arielle Astoria takes us along her unfolding, peeling back limits to fully embrace her multi-talented identity.

It's that return of, oh, there I am, and there I've always been. Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Sonic the Hedgehog 3

Welcome home, my boy. is now streaming on AirMount Plus. He is much more impressive than the Hedgehog I fought previously. Dude, I'm standing right here. Sonic the Hedgehog 3, now streaming on Paramount Plus. With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz.

Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. So our first guest is Alex Ella, New York Times bestselling author, breathwork coach, and restorative writing teacher. In her journey towards healing, it began when she discovered the transformative power of journaling and mindfulness practices like breathwork.

Writing became this way for her to process her experiences, to rewrite the negative narratives that she had internalized, and develop a sense of radical self-love. And through her work teaching writing workshops and courses and retreats, Alex now helps others around the world find their voices and cultivate clarity in their lives and relationships. In her fantastic book, How We Heal, uncover your power and set yourself free, she shares deeply personal stories and insights into her own healing journey. And Alex invites readers to approach healing not just as a struggle but as an act of joy and community and reclaiming one's infinite worth. So join us as we dive into

Alex's empowering perspectives on befriending your fears, resting as a revolutionary act, and writing as a catalyst for personal transformation. Here's Alex. So mom of three, author, breathwork coach, restorative writing teacher, with really a deep focus on healing in a very holistic and expansive way.

So part of my curiosity is how does facilitating healing, through writing and breath and meditation and community also in No Smiled Heart, how does that become not just a personal devotion for you, but really eventually like your work. It's a really good question. Something I've been thinking a lot about lately when it comes to healing is kind of removing the dauntingness of it and centering joy as a healing mechanism. Because so often when we're healing, it's because something big has happened, or quite literally maybe we've broken a bone, or our heart has been broken because of whatever. And it's such an undertaking to heal. And something that I really want people to get curious about is healing as an act of not only community service,

but an act of kind of this like permission to allow yourself to be joyful, to allow yourself to be hurting, but also be healing, to be grateful, but also maybe be grieving, right? So like really honoring the duality of what healing can look like. And in how we heal, the underlying theme there is that when we heal ourselves, we heal our lineage.

When we heal ourselves, we heal each other. And because healing is so multifaceted, I want people to get excited about it instead of being like, dang, this is another thing I have to go through. And don't get me wrong, because some things are not fun to heal through. But I think where the beauty is, like leaning into the possibility of what's to come

on the other side of the thing that's really tender or really bothering us or really hard to even look at. And so healing for me is this dedication to self-choosing and this honoring of the things that we've walked through and carrying it close with grace, non-judgment, and self-trust. Which sounds beautiful as you share it. And then there's the reality. And then we do it.

Of walking through it, right? This is a complete and utter mess sometimes, right? Like the word that you were about to say is the exact thing that was just adjusted in my mind. So yeah, all of it, right? Like in the mix. And I know this is personal for you also. I know this has become a devotion and this is also like you built a tremendous body of work

and you helped thousands of people through workshops and books and your prompts and annotations and ideas and breath work. But this really started in a very personal way for you. I know you've, I've heard you describe your younger years. If I'm remembering it properly, I remember hearing you say, I was raised to hide, to be fearful.

Yes. I was, I often say that like I learned self-hatred before I learned self-love. And that really felt hard for me as I started to raise my children because I didn't want to keep the cycles of self-hatred going, right?

And so it had to stop with me. Like there was no choice. I had no choice. Or rather the choice was to heal the lineage, right? To heal myself, to heal the lineage. And I grew up with a mom who did her best with what she knew. And it was really challenging with her. Thankfully, we're in a really amazing place now,

as I'm an adult, and I can look at her as an adult, and we have boundaries and all these things. But it's hard when you grow up feeling like you don't have a voice, feeling like you're unloved, and feeling like you are the reason why everyone is in pain. You know? And so... When you are feeling this way, you, I wasn't carrying myself,

didn't know how to carry myself with dignity and integrity and love. And I wasn't really nurtured. I didn't come from an affectionate family. And so there's just so many things I had to learn on my own. And I became a mom, I was 18. I was young when I had Charlie.

And it was really a wake-up call for me to get it together. And so I now have three daughters, I'm married, and healing looks different in this stage. So it looked different when I was 18 into my early 20s. It looked different when I met my husband at 23. It looks different now that I'm raising not only Charlie, but two young kids. And so it's like giving myself the permission to really honor every phase of healing that

I am in. And what I have found is the older I get, the more healing I have to do. I turned 33 this year and it was a really like pivotal awakening for me. And three years prior to that, I felt like, oh my gosh, why is all my trauma coming to the surface? I'm 30 years old. I thought I dealt with that. You know, I thought I had healed from that.

Like, why is this coming up? And what I realized in therapy and through my writing work and through my meditation practice is that it is OK to have to heal from the same thing more than once. It is OK to not be healed. You know, like, I think the world tries to shame us for going backwards to a place that maybe is tender

and triggered and wounded. But the beauty in that is we should go backwards because now we have different tools to nurture and self-soothe during those moments that feel like, oh my gosh, why am I back here again? Yeah, I mean, that makes so much sense to me. Writing for you seems like it was like one of the things that dropped down early in the process as like your, for some reason it seems like you were drawn to this as a really powerful early step into whatever path

you would end up traveling down, where you end up bringing in different modalities. Talk to me about how writing, especially writing as a modality to process, to reveal, to heal, becomes a part of your practice. Writing has shown me myself, and that is what draws me to the practice. I remember being in therapy for the very first time as a young adult, I think I was 19 or 20. And I had an amazing therapist.

And she gave me the idea to put a journal in my imaginary emotional toolbox. And I had always been a writer. I wrote short stories, I wrote sad poems. I was the, I'm the only child. So I used storytelling to be a sense of like comfort. And so I had always been a writer. But I never knew I could write to heal. And when I started writing to heal, and to explore, and to be kind to myself, and to and to be curious and to unpack and all those

things that it can bring to our lives. The game like really changed for me. And my mom gave me my first journal and I hadn't used it. I still have it. And I think there's like one thing written in there. It was this red, beautiful red journal with this embroidered flowers on it. And I remember thinking like,

here's a permission slip to tap into my truth. And then the older I got, the more I started really exploring affirmation writing and notes to self. Because I had spent so much of my time speaking ill to myself and negative self talk and being mean to myself, I wanted to change that narrative.

And that started around 22, 23. Like let me just write these notes to self, be kind to myself, and see what happens. And that was really foreign. Like this doesn't feel natural. But it started to feel natural because I was at that place of, I want different, so I must do different. I don't know what different means, but I'm going to try. I'm going to try everything.

And positive self-talk shaped how I saw myself and it allowed me to give myself power to explore self-love and what that looked like. And so affirmations and notes to self really pushed me into this place of writing to heal. And I found it in therapy. And it's been amazing. I mean, it brought me to my career and it also has brought me to my deepest truth, which is that I am worthy and I have always been worthy. And years ago, I did not think that. And now today, I am deeply rooted in that. Yeah, that's a powerful shift. One of the things you mentioned this pretty early on, actually, I think it's sort of like the first of four pillars that you offer out of four sort of like major

ideas or categories is the role of rest in this whole process. It so often is not mentioned, you know, it's sort of like, hear the steps, hear the invitations, hear the things you do. But so much of the integration, so much the actual growth part of it happens when you just create this space to rest. And you really made a point of focusing on that, which I thought was interesting. I mean, resting is replenishing, it's restorative, it is nourishing, and we all need it. We all, I mean, just look at life in general. Look at plant cycles. Look at how much babies sleep when they are first born

because they are growing and growing so rapidly. You know, it's like, rest is essential. And we live in like this grind culture. When we become adults, where it's like grind, go hard, don't sleep till you're dead. It's like that, don't do that. Do not do that. Hehehehehe. Do not do that.

Sleep while you're alive, and everybody will thank you for it. Because when we are well-rested, we are clear-minded. When we are well-rested, we can heal in a way that feels more intentional and less exhausting. And also, like, we don't always have to be healing. Like, that's a big part of the message in how we heal, is, like, you don't have to always be healing.

You don't have to heal today. You don't have to heal next year. Take your time with your process and with this practice. It is a practice. Healing is a work in practice. And we don't have to have it all figured out. We are allowed to have fun. We are allowed to grow. We are allowed to change.

And we are allowed to be easeful in this life. And during this, during these monumental changes and shifts, and that requires slowing down, sitting down and taking a step back from everything. We don't work 24 hours a day. I mean, some folks might and like, but how's their mental, how's their physical, right? It's like, we don't want this healing work to become a task. We want it to be deeply embedded into our daily practice

and our daily lives in a way that's sustainable, not harmful. Like, I am uninterested in pouring from an empty cup. That's not something I'm interested in doing. I do not want to be depleted in trying to love people at the same time. That's unhealthy. And that's a big part of rest work for me too. Like, I call it rest work because it is, it has to be, we have to work on it.

We have to work on taking a step back and slowing down. Right? And so when we are empty, because we are restless, because we are overworked, because we are hurting deeply, and we're not giving ourselves permission to be with the pain. When those things are just all consuming, it is so hard to give with intention to our work,

to our spouses, to our children, to ourselves. And so sometimes my best healing comes from going to take a nap. Before I got on this call with you, I took a two and a half hour nap, which I don't do often. But I needed to. I'm getting over a cold, and I'm tired, and my kids want to come and get in the bed with me

in the middle of the night and be on my back. Like, you know? And so it's like, Alex, you are allowed to rest. And that permission, you are allowed to rest. Whatever that means, whether it's going to take a nap or taking a break from the healing work or just going to sit down because you need a moment. That is so radical. And there's a woman on Instagram who I love,

her name is Tricia Hersey of the Knapp Ministry. And she reminds us often to go sit down somewhere and rest and to release the idea that we always have to be performing, always have to be doing something because performance isn't where our value is and we are not any less valuable for taking a beat and refueling and replenishing and nourishing ourselves. And so rest has to be a part of the equation. It has to. Yeah. And the notion that resting from the process of healing is also a part of the equation,

like that counts as the type of rest that actually leads to healing like resting from the process of like What can sometimes be a really intensive? labor Intensive process resting from that can actually facilitate the healing process itself. Um, that is it Yeah, you're one of the other things that you talk about also is It's the notion of reframing fear really, you know, like of saying, okay, so let's deal with this. Like let's be upfront with this.

And if there are things that you've been through, things that have formed you, things where there's trauma, things where there are fear responses that are almost DNA level deep if you're further into life, because they've just been so embedded in the way that you identify and live and behave. Mm-hmm. You know, like, that's, let's talk about this. And let's, like, can we put a different frame on that? Because until that happens, you know,

there's going to be a whole lot of struggle without moving through, moving past, without becoming, without being able to access the ease that I think so many of us want. I mean all of that, yes. The chapter or the section rather that you're talking about is befriending your fear and I wanted to put that in the book because I did a whole course on befriending fear. And people really gravitated to that because they had never been invited to allow their fear to be a part of their life. Right? And there's something really beautiful about saying being scared out of our healing

because fear is at our door, right? Um, taking the time and making the space to truly be with everything, be with it all, and then move through it. Fear is not a bad thing. It doesn't make us weak. It is a natural response. When things get hard, it is something that will come up because change is on the horizon, right? And so fear is a great teacher if we allow it to be. And I wanted to make sure that I emphasized that

in how we heal because a lot of this healing work that we're doing is scary. We may be the only people in our family doing it right now, healing, right? We may be the only ones making the step. And that is scary to do this work alone. But don't let fear change your trajectory. It can come with you, it's okay.

It can befriend, it can be a great friend. Doesn't have to be the leader in your life, but it can be a friend. And that's hard and really valuable for us to walk through And that's hard and really valuable for us to walk through and learn along the way, which we will, I think. I'm still learning it. I want how we heal to be that open invitation to look at it all and to see the fear, to see that you may have to begin again after you think, overcome that thing, that you can heal even when

no one else around you is healing, and that you can get curious about yourself. That's really the biggest invitation of how we heal is to get curious about your self. about your self? Meh. And writing can be such a powerful modality in there. Some of the stories in this, I feel like there were more, you had a whole bunch of examples,

and then the Q&A on slowing down from Chriselle Lim, which I think had just, it's like here are all sort of different ways into this, you know, like what feels good to kind of come full circle. In the book, at least, you know, this is an ongoing conversation. The book is a moment in time with some really powerful ideas and exercise and things to do. By saying we're all dealing with unspoken and unseen things, some heavier to carry than others. Like this all goes down to a heart level. And compassion and connection. These things, like we need to get down to that level.

We need to bring the experience, not just the conversation, but like our felt experience down to that level. To really be in the world the way that we want to be. Yeah, I mean, that's the community care, right? That is the compassion, the connection, the care. That is what our healing does. It connects us in a really powerful way, even when we feel lost. really powerful way, even when we feel lost. And I love that folks are open to using writing and these tools that I've offered in my courses

and at retreat and at conferences to like just get to know themselves. A big question that I often ask is like, who are you outside of your roles to other people? Who are you? What's hurting you? Where does it hurt? Why does it hurt?

By getting down to those micro level back to basic questions that we often just don't even ask ourselves because we are moving through the world, right? How do we connect with our true self if we are constantly ignoring the journey? And I think that's something that I've learned along the way is that even in my own healing process, there was a point where I was ignoring different steps in the journey because I just wanted to be over it. I just was done. Get me there, right? But healing is a forever love. Healing is something that we're going to be doing until the day we leave this earth.

We're going to be growing and changing until the day we transition off this earth. And so how do we do that in a way that not only supports us, but supports the collective? And I think that is the question I want people to sit with. How can your healing support the healing? When we start healing our inner world, we start healing the world. And I think that there is something deeply sacred and necessary about that. Hmm, can't agree enough. It feels like a good place for us to come full circle in our conversation as well. So in this container of good life project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up?

To live a good life for me Means To stand in my power and be my most authentic self no matter the room I walk in That's what comes up for me Because Hmm Because when we are rooted in who we are, in the truth of who we are, people can see that. And again, I just want to lead by example. So I guess that is how I want to live a good life, is by leading by example.

Thank you. Thank you. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. a mobile plan, you know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at Fizz.ca. Sonic the Hedgehog 3.

Welcome home, my boy. Is now streaming on Paramount+. He is much more impressive than the hedgehog I fought previously. Dude, I'm standing right here. Sonic the Hedgehog 3, now streaming on Paramount Plus. Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyberattack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free.

Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at ZenSurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. So our next guest, Arielle Astoria, is a poet, speaker, author, and actor whose work is dedicated to helping people peel back the layers and come home to their most authentic selves. Through her latest book, The Unfolding, an invitation to come home to yourself, Ariel guides readers on this intimate journey of awakening, eclipsing,

mending, illuminating, and ultimately returning to the core of who they truly are. In her soulful words, they don't just reach the ears but aim to be felt and experienced. Ariel has shared this gift through custom spoken word pieces, workshops, and keynotes with companies like Google, Lululemon, TEDx, and so many others. And more than just a writer, Ariel really walks her talk, having gone through her own profound unfolding, to embrace all facets of her identity as a poet, a speaker, an author, an actor, and an innovator. So join us as we dive into Arielle's empowering perspectives on befriending your fears, reclaiming your voice, and peeling back the layers to reveal your most vibrant unapologetic self.

Here's Arielle. You talk about this thing you describe as the unfolding and then offer essentially five phases through a process of personal individual unfolding. I wanna explore those different phases. But before you even get there, tell me what you, when you use the word or the phrase unfolding or the unfolding, what are we actually talking about there? Yeah, so I had written,

I had written the unfolding in my notes in probably 2018. And I didn't know what it was. I didn't know if it was a book, if it was a song, if it was a spoken word album. I was like, okay, look, this, whatever, this is Karina Beat. And I just left that in my notes and I didn't do anything with it.

And then about a year, a few months actually after that, I received an inquiry about writing a book. And at that time, I still didn't know what the unfolding was. And so I was writing all these proposals and trying to pitch it and none of it felt right. And so I just left it. And my now literary agent was the first person

that told me, you don't have to write a book right now. So I said no to everyone. And then a year later, more life happened. A lot of these combs started to spill out of me. And a lot of it was growing up in the evangelical culture and wanting a lot of that shift for people, especially prime of COVID and the pandemic, of just as we're sitting in this space of like,

what does it mean to be human? And what does it mean to be in community, let alone, what does it mean to be a Christian? What does it mean to go to church? And so I watched all these people talk about this conversation of deconstructing, we're deconstructing and we're deconstructing things. And that word felt so harsh to me,

it felt so disconnecting. And a lot of it, as at the same time was this conversation of deconstructing, felt so much like you're changing and you're being otherly, you're being something different. And for me, as I felt I was changing and unfolding, I really just felt like there were these layers that were just only getting peeled back.

There was this shedding that was happening and I wasn't becoming this brand new person. And I am really strongly felt that I'd always been this. This has always been me, but not having the fullest permission and space to fully be that. And so I talk about meeting my husband and I say very clearly,

he was not the reason for my unfolding, but he gave space for all these different seasons in my life to kind of catapult in one space and he gave me permission to unfold, to ask these questions, to not know, which was the biggest part of it and ultimately helped me to trust myself and trust the decisions I was making, trust that I can still believe in a divine orchestration, and also that I have a wisdom and a discernment as well. And so when I say the unfolding, I'm talking about all the layers we shed, all the pieces of ourselves that we pull back, that we let go of in order to be who we are today in order to be our fullest and freest.

Yeah, that feels, I love the way that feels. It reminds me in no small way of in more Eastern traditions, there's a Sanskrit word Jeevan Mukti or Jeevan Mukti, which translates roughly to liberated being, Mukti being liberation. And the idea is that it's the distinction between transformation and liberation. It's this idea of like, I'm not necessarily becoming something or someone entirely different.

I'm peeling away the layers of obstruction and delusion that don't allow me to simply be the real me, my truest self, the thing that has always been there but has never been what I lead with or how I show up in the world, what I acknowledge. And that's a lot of what when your description of unfolding to me feels a lot like that. It's like and in fact it makes a lot of sense right because the process that you lay out, awakening, eclipsing, mending, illuminating, the final piece of that is returning. It's not saying, okay, so now I'm this other person I wanted to be. It's no, now I've actually

figured out a way, you know, a path back to myself that was just hidden by all sorts of things. So let's walk through those different phases a little bit. And you tee it up with this notion of, okay, so we all start out with this experience of awakening. What's actually going on in this phase? Yeah. So, Pandam described the awakening as waking up from mid-afternoon nap, and you're like, who am I? Where am I? What year is it? You know, like, is it still the same day or a different day?

It's this waking and coming to you, this fog that kind of happens. And I say there's two types or two layers to the awakening. The first one is realizing that the person you've been staring at, this person in the mirror, is still you, but looks just slightly different and yet so familiar at the same time. And then the other version is you've suppressed this person. This person has always existed. This roar has always been there. And yet you never had space or permission to allow it to unleash. And so now

you're coming to it. And in the awakening, you're still familiar with your surroundings, but there's a jolt a little bit. You know, there's a little bit of disorientation that happens. And for me, it was realizing like, oh, I have always believed these things, but now I'm starting to say them out loud. Now I'm starting to live it out loud a little bit more, and that's a little scary for other people. Therefore, it's starting to become scary to me, even though I'm not afraid of it. But because it elicited some fear in people where it was unfamiliar who I was, what I was saying, and how I was acting, and and who I was marrying and there was like,

this is not you. So then I started to be like, oh, this is not me. And go through that phase of like, I'm not awake and I can fit back in this box. You know, I can go back to whoever it was, whoever it is I was, even though we don't fit in those anymore. And so that awakening is, I have been shifting. And am I going to keep ignoring it, or am I going to actually start to face it and to allow myself to continue to grow in it? You write about a mentor asking a question, if you were basically asking you if you're going to live a life that was based on not disappointing people or that you felt proud of and called to.

And it seems like that was a, it seems like it was almost like a passing question or a moment, but it was pivotal in your personal awakening. Definitely. I had to talk to a lot of people in that season because I just, I had a really hard time hearing myself, trusting myself, believing myself, not really sure what I was meant to be guided by and what

I wasn't. And the mentor who said that, she's one of my favorite humans and she was someone I had interned under at a church that she had left, came out, married her wife. I actually did a poem for their wedding. And so this is a person who has just like guided me and given me so much freedom to choose. She's also the person who said like stop shooting on yourself, like the should and should not that we carry. And so that question she asked me was in the height of, you know, not wanting to make a decision because it was kind of disappoint people. And what do you do in those moments when a lot of things we do will probably disappoint people?

Does that mean that you stop living? And I was almost to the point where I was willing to stop making my own decisions, stop doing things because I'm like, it's just, it's causing too much pain, it's causing too much tension, you know? And not intentionally, but that question of, can you make decisions?

Can you live a life that you're proud of? Or is it just going to be one that you get a blossom by other people and that seems fulfilling for you? Hmm. Yeah, so powerful. And I think we've all had our own version of something like that, whether it's a person asking a question or just an experience that we've had that kind of rattles us for a second that says, who am I really living for?

And like you described, once you start to really explore that, it's hard to take steps backwards. In this part of the book, you actually, you share essays, you share poems, reflections. There's a poem, Deep Water, could I ask you to share that with us? Yeah.

I would ask you to share that with us. Yeah. So it's on page 51 on Deepwater's The Awakening. The ocean does not apologize for the space that it takes up. It does not make excuses for the depths that most people cannot handle. It cannot help but drown those who are not ready to submerge beneath its fathomless waves. Let this too be a lesson to us, that we may expand as far as we need to,

not apologize for the way the others are not ready to submerge into our waters, or those who might tell us to come back to shore when we've always known we were made, shaped, created for deep waters. I love that. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free.

Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Sonic the Hedgehog 3. Welcome home, my boy. Is now streaming on Paramount+. He is much more impressive than the hedgehog I fought previously. Dude, I'm standing right here. Sonic the Hedgehog 3, now streaming on Paramount+.

With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca.

When you start out this process by awakening through some experience, we're still just in the beginning of the unfolding here. Like this is early days. And as you described, often people move into this next experience or season, the eclipsing, which is not necessarily fun. And I would venture to say for most people,

it's actually, it's like the dark night part of the experience of going through a really profound shift. Yeah, yeah, the eclipse scene, I say, you know, if you're familiar with an eclipse, there's two types, there's a solar and then there's a lunar. So different things happen in both of those. But ultimately in both the whole aspect of the eclipse is the shadow space. And sometimes that shadow space, even though it's kind of just a moment, feels

like it lasts forever. And so as we've awakened, as we've come to, okay, there are some new things here, there's some shifting, there's a lot of grief that happens with that. There's a lot of reality with understanding, I am, I'm not who I was. And that can be terrifying, and I think that can be scary for a lot of other people as well, so then it makes it seem like it's even more scary for us.

And so for me in that space, it was, again, like I said, not being able to hear myself, not being able to hear myself, not being able to trust myself, a lot of panic attacks while driving in the car because that's where a lot of the conversations I was happening that was elicited, eliciting those responses that were going on, and even more so the poems you find in the Eclipsing chapter

were things that I needed to use to reground myself, to remind myself, this is where my feet are, my head is above water, you know, I'm not drowning. And like I said, I am, I can be a very dramatic person. And so I really had to allow myself to like speak, speak that the downscaling of what was happening to myself, because if I didn't, I would just be overwhelmed by it. So a lot of mentors, a lot of time on people's porches and people's couches in that season, because even though it was a moment, it was really hard and it was really scary waking to these parts of myself.

And like we talked about earlier, and ultimately can I be this and still be loved? You know, can I be this new person or can I be this unfolded person that I feel like is living and existing beautifully today? But is that going to mean I lose some belonging in some spaces? That's known a different version of me. And so a lot of time at the beach in the eclipsing space, a lot of time to connect with myself

in the best ways I possibly could, but it is a hard season. It is a shadow season and one that might hold more grief than it holds anything else. Yeah, I would imagine for so many, it's also a season that we'd really rather see if we can just opt out of and skip over. We're like, I wanna get to that end place

where everything's awesome. And, but can I, like, who can I pay or buy my way out of like this particular season and experience or just like, no, it's, we all, like, there's something that we all have to move through where that is going to be a part of it. You know, it's interesting, because the way you describe your experience

and the timing of it also was overlapping with what I would consider a much bigger societal season of eclipsing and like 2020, 2021, like continuously through now, racial reckoning in the middle of a global pandemic. You write about this, you write, you spill poems out of anger, out of frustration, out of sadness and fear,

and try to reconcile what it all looked like as an artist to speak life where there was so much death. Yeah, I think as I was experiencing my own personal eclipsing, we were sitting in a societal space where so much was being brought to the surface. I think the eclipsing could also be a season of uprooting, where so much has been suppressed in our soil, so much has been suppressed systemically. And now there's no choice but to bring it up and but to uproot it. And that's a very painful process.

And so being able to sit in the space of holding a lot of grief and walking that into our world. So my husband and I got married in May of 2020, my uncle died the next day, the next week we got home and everything was uproar with George Floyd and so we're sitting in this space of just we are all holding this tension. So much is being uprooted and how do we sit in this space? How do we heal? How do we mend? How do we speak kindly to each other in this space? And also just how prime the pandemic was at that time.

It was just so disorienting. We didn't know what community was, what connection was. All the while we were experiencing trauma after trauma. And so for me, again, a lot of those poems, I just, I spill because I need to process what's going on in my spirit, what's going on in my heart. And I needed to use it to like look at the words that I'm speaking and that I'm sharing

and use that to ground, to connect and to heal because oftentimes we don't know what to say. In those moments, we don't know what to say. In those moments, we don't know who to be in those moments as I try to give somewhat of an insight or somewhat of a permission slip in order to how to be how to heal how to connect with one another while we experiencing this shadow space and I think for me even more so realizing it wasn't just me, you know, like I wasn't just on this shadow space. And I think for me even more so realizing it wasn't just me, you know? Like I wasn't just on this lone island. Like we were all sitting in this very different space of different eclipses happening, and clip sees I think, and what,

and how do we hold each other in that time, you know? Yeah, I mean, so powerful. So as we emerge from the season of the eclipsing, we emerge into what you describe as the mending. So we don't stay in that season, but we have to move through it. And we move into this mending experience. Tell me about what's happening in the season. Yeah, so the mending is, I talk about the art of, Japanese art of kintsugi. And it's taking these pieces of clay or glass

that are broken and bringing them back together with this gold glue almost. And I love this art because you can still see where it's broken. Like, you can still see where the pieces are pieces, but now it makes this beautiful and whole space. And so the mending is I'm bringing these parts of who I was because they still fit and identify with who I am today.

And I'm leaving the rest. It's kind of, you know, the old phrase of toss the baby out with the bath water. You know, we're tossing out some bath water. The baby's still there. Some of the bath water's still there. But we're tossing out some bath water. The baby's still there. Some of the bath water's still there. But we're tossing out the rest that doesn't serve and that doesn't fit and getting to the point

where we can mend and heal these really tender spaces that we've experienced awakening and eclipsing. And now we get to just decide, how do I wanna be? Who do I wanna be? What do I wanna bring with me?, how do I want to be? Who do I want to be? What do I want to bring with me? And what do I want to leave behind? So moving from the mending part, then we ease into this process or season of illumination.

Mm-hmm. And it's interesting, right? Because I feel like we've been talking to them about seasons. You move from one to the next to the next in a linear way. Yeah. My lived experience of sort of, you move from one to the next in a linear way. My lived experience of sort of moving through these seasons is non-linear.

So I may, okay, so now I'm emerging into illuminating, and then all sorts of new stuff starts to come up. And I do it back into the eclipsing, because it's necessary for me to be there, to process what I'm moving through at that moment. Yeah. So it's like, what's interesting is like every season that you've described in this book and sort of like the experience of unfolding really resonates with me. And also the notion of not necessarily like holding it lightly that these are actually

going to unfold in a linear sequence and just knowing that there's going to be some back and forth along the way and eventually we'll move in a more wholehearted and holistic way towards that final state. But that there may be like not to set ourselves up for like, I need to go from this to this. And if I kind of find myself being called to go back, like there's no shame is that it's actually a very natural part of the process that resonates with you. Yeah, I definitely, I think I say in the book, you know, healing is not linear. It's very

cyclical. And so is the five stages of grief, you know, when we talk about those, we experience them, you know, sometimes at the same time, sometimes all five, you know, and not in the same order. So don't think of these phases, I think, as a structured guide. Just use them as, you know, permission flips, as marking points that you could reach. And now that I'm, you know, a few years removed from having written and from everything being finished, I almost would say that the illuminating could, in a sense, also be another awakening. It's shedding that light now on how we've healed, on what we've awakened to, on those lessons and tools that we've taken with us through the shadow space.

And now there could be a likeness to it. It could be an awareness and a dancing with these new realities, or it could be another coming to, another shedding light on another aspect that maybe we're just now growing accustomed to or we're just now growing aware of. And so even sitting in this space, I'm like, I don't know, maybe the illuminating is actually just a matter of what it can be. It's all just a one big circle, you know, but I'm making it seem as though it's a progressive

step by step thing, but it's not it seem as though it's a progressive step-by-step thing, but it's not step-by-step to any means. And so the illuminating is just a little space of light and hopefully a space that allows you to dance a little, that feels a little lighter. I kind of use a lot of alliteration towards dancing and towards being with the light. There's something about sunshine on your skin that I have such a connection to, and I'm anemic, so I really like warmth.

And so I think that's why I use that alliteration quite a bit because I will just sit in the sun just because it's such a warm and inviting space. And so I think in that illuminating space, maybe actually it is just another level of awakening and coming to and allowing there to be light in what you didn't know and now you do know, you know? And also what you've let go of. I think we shed light on who we're not anymore.

We shed light on where we're not going. And I think there's different layers that could be a double edge of grief, but then also some relief and some joy at the same time. Yeah, it's like what dear friend of mine, Cindy Spiegel, describes as microjoys. It's like you're going to be going through seasons of profound loss and grief,

but it doesn't mean that season needs to be devoid of, like, just momentary glimmers of joy or connection or hope. That's beautiful. Yeah, so, and the poems that you write in this particular section, they really, just momentary glimmers of joy or connection or hope. That's beautiful. Yeah. So, and the poems that you write in this particular section, they really, there's that energy of lightness, of the sun coming through. Wildflowers is one of the poems in that section that really,

like, dances around in my mind as well. The final season that you describe is the returning. And this goes back to the earlier part of our conversation, right? It's less about, you know, who am I turning into down the road, but more about this sense of returning, but not returning to the old self, not returning to the old box that you left behind. Tell me more about what you actually mean by returning and returning to what or who? Yeah, I think there's a level of returning to ourselves for having experiences of being disembodied,

of being suppressed and disconnected. There's such a beautiful aspect in conversation of returning. And I think for me, it's almost like getting to my mat every day that I know my mat, you can almost still see where my footprints are in my mat. Like there's just something about it that feels like, I know this, I've been here. This is familiar to me. And even though we've changed and shifted,

I do still think there's a level of a core of us that is still very much so true to who we are and who we've always been. So it's animals that return to that core and then vice versa for me, that core has always been, I think, one that has been connected to my creator, connected to the divine. And I hadn't lost that, but it just was a matter of me returning back to it and more consciously than it was anything else. And so I think of that return as, you know, coming back to your home after a trip. And I have been very much so ingrained to always clean the house before we leave anywhere. And so I love that feeling of coming back home,

you know, after however long. Honestly, I feel like one or two nights, um, COVID has made travel feel extremely longer than it feels than it's felt before, so one or two nights is good, you know, and you feel like you've been gone for weeks. And you just, you, that feeling of coming back home and plants are all there, you know, all our cozy things. It's just that, like, exhale exhale of like, and I say in one of the poems of just, it's that return of there I am and there I've always been.

I haven't lost this, I haven't lost my connection to myself or to God or to the divine or creator, whatever you wanna call it. Those have always been there. And now I'm just coming back to it and staying grounded in it is really that return space. And it almost does bring the same light that the illuminating does. And I wanted that to feel like an exhale because we might have to hold our breath again, because again, it just goes in waves. And so, but for now, we get to exhale.

But now we get to release and just hear. Yeah, beautiful. One of the essays in that section, say yes is also really, it's an invitation to keep saying yes to the process. Keep saying yes to like the essential you. Keep saying yes to allowing this unfolding process to happen and get closer and closer

to your true identity and story. Yes. Which I thought was just a really beautiful invitation to really bring the book home with and towards the very end of the book also this poem, Glorious. I'd love to, would you share that with us and maybe bring us home with that poem? Yeah, actually, I wrote this poem after my partners and I first stayed. So that was, this one was a really beautiful bull circle moment.

Glorious. I've grown familiar with the feeling of holding out my hands with the expectation that I will pull them away empty, that a catastrophe would be made in every moment, that instead of shooting stars, atomic bombs will end up falling so afraid that a solar eclipse automatically implies there will only be darkness. And I will not notice that the light always returns. I have this bad habit of believing that all good things that happen to me are not actually for me.

That somehow they dodge the person they were meant for and round up in my lap by happenstance. I once attended a retreat where they asked us if the glass was half full or half empty, and I said, both, but it doesn't matter because it's not my glass to begin with. I told them that even though glorious opportunities have happened to me, they did not have my name on them. Someone else dropped them and I just so happened to be the next one to pass by and pick them up. I was asked, so what does that mean you need to learn to accept?

I said, I guess it means I need to believe that I am deserving of glorious opportunities. I am deserving of glorious opportunities. I am deserving of glorious opportunities. Now say it with your hands out like you're receiving. I stood there with my hands open and tears falling down my face. See I am fully aware of the fact that I am human and flawed. That the mediocrity of my humanity often shadows the still hint of sparkle in my dust.

It often blocks the fact that I am human and grace filled and swimming with purpose. That there is nothing happenstance about my existence or the things that happen to me. That my story is weaved with intention even when I think it is not. I want to expect more shooting stars than atomic bombs these days and be in awe of the change that comes after a solar eclipse. And learn to sit in the darkness when it arrives, take in the moment,

wear it like the warmest blanket I've ever known, and then find the light again, because the light will always be there. I want to look at the glass and know that no matter how much is inside of it, its purpose is to hold things, so it doesn't matter if it's half full or half empty. It is simply doing what it was made to. I want to hold out my hands, grasp the glorious parts of life as if I were holding on to raindrops, watch them bounce on my palms and still find them marvelous,

even when they disappear. Because even if they aren't mine to hold forever, at some point, no matter how long ago, they were still mine and they were still gorg. So beautiful. Thank you so much for that. Good place for us to come full circle. So in this container of good life project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? To live a good life means to love well and let yourself be well. Thank you.

Yeah. So special thanks to our guests today, Alex L and Ariel Astoria. Through their journeys, they remind us that reclaiming our infinite power really means peeling back layers, befriending fears, and radically accepting ourselves. And if you loved this episode, be sure to catch the full conversation with today's guests. You can find a link to each of those episodes in the show notes. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsay Fox and me, Jonathan Fields. Editing help by Troy Young, Christopher Carter crafted our theme music, and special thanks to Shelly Del Bliss for her research on this episode. And of course,

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