Good Life Project - How Do You Rewrite Your Story? One Step at a Time | Robin Arzón [Best of]

Episode Date: April 27, 2025

From hostage crisis to fitness titan - In this best-of conversation, Robin Arzón shares her unstoppable journey defying limits. The author of "Shut Up and Run" opens up about how a traumatic experience fueled her pivot from lawyer to global phenomenon at Peloton, conquering ultramarathons with Type 1 diabetes along the way. Get inspired by Robin's "sweat with swagger" mentality and unapologetic pursuit of the unconventional path.You can find Robin at: Website | Instagram | Episode TranscriptIf you LOVED this episode you’ll also love the conversations we had with Rich Roll about making the journey from practicing law and dealing with addiction to becoming a sober ultra-marathoner, entrepreneur, and successful creator.Check out our offerings & partners: Join My New Writing Project: Awake at the WheelVisit Our Sponsor Page For Great Resources & Discount Codes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A man walks in with a gun and proceeds to hold the entire bar hostage. And he said, people are going to be leaving in body bags. So how do you emerge out of that, like physically unharmed, but psychologically and emotionally? I remember just needing to like choose fear or a greater faith. So what does it really take to rewrite your story and turn ambition into unstoppable action and incredible outcomes?

Today we're joined by Robin Arzon, former lawyer, ultra marathoner, bestselling author and Peloton's VP of fitness programming to unlock the secrets of resilience and radical self belief. I really do fear mediocrity. Like I think about my legacy. Like what do I want to be talking about when I'm 90? I think a lot of people don't look at life that way. They're constantly like what's the fastest, easiest path to get there? I firmly believe the jewels of my crown are made of grit and hustle and sweat

and that it's because I know that journey, I know that path, it will always be worthwhile to me. I used to say, I just feel stuck. Stuck where I don't want to be. Stuck trying to get to where I really need to be. But then I discovered lifelong learning. Learning that gave me the skills to move up, move beyond, gain that edge, drive my curiosity, prepare me for what is inevitably next. The University of Toronto School of Continuing Studies, lifelong learning to stay forever unstuck.

Were you the type of kid where you kind of saw parents as a doctor and a lawyer, you kind of always assumed that was part of your path or not so much? Well, it's interesting because I view kind of the classic American dream through their work ethic and their narrative. So my mother's from Cuba, my father is from Puerto Rico, and so I literally saw them rebuild themselves. My mother tells the story about how she taught herself English watching PBS and Sesame Street at the age of 14. So witnessing that and then seeing them succeed,

it was like I understood the narrative of the hard work in creating yourself from a really young age. And then I just assumed like if they can do that, I can do that too, and I have to. I felt not pressure, pressure is the wrong word, but a sense of honoring where you came from. Were they both first generation here? Yes, both first generation here. Got it.

Have they shared a lot of the stories, a lot of sort of like their early days with you? Yes, and it's fascinating because, you know, when I look at these old pictures, especially, my father grew up in poverty, but my mother actually in Cuba was, they were wealthy. They grew up in a way that I can't even imagine with servants and farm hands and just really like elaborate birthdays and all these things. And then they come to Philadelphia starting from nothing, you know, getting winter coats from the Salvation Army

and, you know, a true evolution of like, you have everything you could ever want, then you have nothing, and then you're grateful for what the little you do have and you build from there. So that perspective, I think, has been always been part of my mother's story and it's something I very much admire.

Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting to me also that you said you didn't feel a sense of pressure, but like more of an internal sense of honoring. Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting to me also that you said you didn't feel a sense of pressure, but like more of an internal sense of honoring. Yeah. So the choices that you made, it wasn't like you were being forced, like I have to live up to their expectations. It's not an obligation, but it's sort of like, it seems like there's something wired in you that just says like, they've worked so hard to be here.

Like something inside has to sort of honor that. Yeah, I feel like there's something really powerful. I mean, I was, it's funny that I'm in fitness now because I used to be allergic to exercise. So I was the Arts and Crafts straight A kid, right? So they really never, and I don't think they even would have had I not been a straight A student, but I've really always had that in me and my sister as well.

We were always just the academic children. But there is an understanding of like honoring your ancestors. Like I saw something, a meme or something on Instagram and the spirit of it was like, I'm going to make my grandmother's grandmother proud. And I was like, whoa, like it stopped me in my tracks. It gives me full body chills right now because I think like legacy is so powerful. And I think about that all the time. Like I believe that our legacy is really just comprised of a lot of small decisions.

And when I'm trying to make small pivots in my life, I think like how will this contribute to my legacy even in a.1% way? And I really, I take that really seriously. Yeah, it's amazing too, because I think legacy a lot of times, so it can be a sword and a shield, right? So on the one hand, you can feel a sense of like, I have to do certain things because the expectation is like, that's the appropriate way to honor my legacy.

Yeah. And, but on the flip side, it can also be like, the appropriate way to honor my legacy is, people who've come before me have worked so hard to create a level of agency and freedom. Yeah. That who am I not to step into my own sense of agency and do the thing that I'm here to do? Well, both offer perspective, right?

Because it's like, I would never, you know, what is it? It was just in the Beyonce Homecoming documentary, I think she quoted Maya Angelou, like you can't be what you can't see. Like, I am so grateful that I was able to see strong characters in my life who were like, you just gotta figure it out and do it.

You know, had I had a different understanding of agency, I wouldn't have ended up sitting here. Yeah, so you end up then, so you're the kid who's arts and crafts and also academics. Where'd you end up going to undergrad? So I went to NYU undergrad and Villanova Law School. I was in Gallatin, so it's a school you make up your own major and it was the most amazing intellectual creative freedom I've ever had.

Yeah, you really, you're able to take classes from all different realms of the university and. So what'd you make up? I studied the social construction of reality. That was my senior thesis. So I took classes in politics and English, I took classes in the business school, I took classes. I knew I was going to be going to law school. And the greatest advice my father gave me at that time was

study what you're interested in because you're going to learn how to be a lawyer when you're a lawyer. And they're going to teach you things in law school that are relevant to that canon, right? So do things that you're interested in. And I didn't want to be just a strict English major or econ major or politics major. I was like, shoot, if NYU has this offering, I'm gonna take advantage and I'm just gonna let my creativity fly.

And thankfully that's exactly what I was supported in that pursuit. That's amazing. So you kind of knew going into that though that you were tracking to law school. No, I knew since I was 10 years old that I wanted to go to law school. What happened at 10?

I think, so honestly I remember watching my dad grade. He was a part-time professor at Temple University law school at the time teaching real estate and I remember this is back when law students still had exams in blue books. I'm raising my hand. I wrote so many blue books. So I remember him grading the exams in blue books.

I remember being fascinated by like, how do you fill all those pages with a thought? You know, and at 10 I was like, am I ever gonna have that many thoughts? You know, so I think it was just this understanding of like, that's a challenge. I think I could be up for that challenge. And I just always had it in my head that I would be a lawyer.

That's amazing. So you ended up going to NYU, and I just always had it in my head that I would be a lawyer. Ah, that's amazing. So you ended up going to NYU, but before you had to Nova, I guess it was your senior year at NYU where- Yes, approaching my senior year. Yeah, where you got involved in something that was pretty horrifying in these buildings. Yeah, I was out with friends, and in walks into the wine bar we were at,

it was like a ball, amazing Friday night in New York City. The weather is good, like people get out of work early. Like there's just such a vibe in New York City in the summer. And then unexpectedly a man walks in with a gun and proceeds to hold the entire bar hostage. I mean, it really was like, as many times as I've told this story, when I look at the

mental movie in my head, it's in slow motion. So when I replay this, it's in slow motion, and I can literally see him walking in and brandishing the gun and grabbing me by my hair. I mean, I had clumps of hair ripped out from my head because he grabbed me so forcefully. And it was in this two-hour period that I had an acute understanding of my own, like the inner transcript of my own inner monologue, or the transcript of my inner monologue, as well as, again, agency. Yeah. So he comes in, he's burning a gun, he grabs you. I happened to be sitting at the stool

closest to the entrance, and it's still there in the East Village, and he grabbed me, and he said, people are gonna be leaving in body bags. I was like, okay, this is, I always refer to it as time slowing down, like really. I think oftentimes when we experience trauma, we remember it in a myriad of ways, but for me it's almost like when you're in a car and you have a fender bender. Even those things I remember in slow motion, and this is obviously one of the most transformative, if not the most transformative

things in my life. So yeah, so he basically, people who were at the bar went one of two ways. The other one straight back, which is a dead end kitchen, which is basically a wash basin in a closet, or they may went right and they were able to exit out of a window in the bathroom. And I had nowhere to go because I was with him, but my friends who were with me made it out of the bathroom. And then about 20 of us were dead, we're in a dead end in this wash basin kitchen area. So what's going through your mind?

I mean, things are happening in a slow motion there. You're in a deadend area with this guy. So he hands me garbage, he shoves me to the ground and hands me garbage bag ties and tells me to tie people up. They were the kind of sliding garbage bag ties and I remember thinking I need to do what he's saying so I don't die, but I also want us to be able to get out of these hand ties. So I remember doing them just loose enough. I don't even know how I was physically able to do it because I'm sure I was trembling or shaking. But yeah, so I did what he said. And then he proceeded

to spray us with a flammable liquid. It smelled like kerosene or gasoline. And I remember the cut in my head burning so much. And I was just like, oh, wow, this is like, he really wants us to die because he started flicking a barbecue lighter above our heads. Then he grabs me and says, you're coming with me. And I was his human shield. He literally just held me in front of his body and then kind of showed me to the NYPD who are now outside of the bar. And so there was probably like, I don't know, a corridor length between the front door at second or third avenue, I'm forgetting exactly where the front face of the bar is, and then

where we were in the kitchen. And it was like he would show me to the NYPD and then he would close the swinging doors into the kitchen area. And that was it. Like, I was just like, okay, is this really like the last chapter? Like, I don't believe this is the last chapter of my life.

And for some reason in that moment, I realized I have to humanize the situation because he was spewing all kinds of vitriol and he was a lot of kinds of vitriol and he was a lot of times unintelligible and definitely angry. But it was also then he started talking about his children and I was like, okay, let's talk about the family angle. Maybe there's something. And I mentioned there are people in here, they have families too. What is it that you want? What is it that you want to get out of this? And I became this pseudo-negotiator

at 20, having no idea what I was doing, but I was like, he needs to know that these people are humans too. And somehow that let the conversation go on long enough for him. I don't know. I just wanted to keep the clock going. How long can I keep the clock going until this ends? Yeah. How do you get out of it as it ends? So it ends.

Thankfully, it ends with nobody dying. So that's a huge plus. So a really, really brave woman named Margaret Gidley, she was sitting kind of elevated in one of the wash basins. A lot of folks were on the floor, but she happened to be seated in a wash basin. And she saw that the perpetrator was struggling with holding me, holding the gun, holding a barbecue lighter, holding my cell phone, which he asked to use and we were on the phone with 911. It was just really kind of chaotic. But she noticed

when he would holster the gun in his jeans. And at one moment when she saw him holster the gun in his jeans, she leapt and leapt him from behind. And then I think a few folks, my back was turned so I didn't see this, but I felt the sensation of falling. And then the NYPD entered. And that's when it was over. So yeah, I have, it's crazy because it happened so long ago, but it really does feel like it happened yesterday. Yeah, I think when something like that happens, I mean, it's like, I think it's always just beneath the surface. This was also, so you were talking New York City, this is 2002, 2003.

This would have been 2002 because it was the summer before my senior year and I graduated in 2003 that May. Okay. So then with that timing, you would have been in New York the year before for 9-11 also. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. So this is, I mean, this alone is like seriously traumatic. I'm assuming being in college downtown on 9-11 for you was pretty dramatic as well. Yeah, it was. And I worked downtown at a law firm.

I was serving as a legal assistant. And I lived just below, after 9-11, below 14th Street, it was like, it was total, I mean, nobody could even walk. It was like a war zone. And they had it blocked off, and you could only go down there if you showed proof of your address. I remember the local Union Square movie theaters were like playing free movies

and people were just walking around like looking for any kind of connection, like anything, just any kind of connection. And yeah, so I don't have never even made that, I haven't even put two and two together that like as a young person, that's kind of a lot to go through within a span of 18 months. Yeah, I mean, it's like these two life-altering traumas are stacking on top of each other. So how do you emerge out of that,

physically unharmed but psychologically and emotionally? Yeah, it's interesting. You wake up the next day and you look down, you're like, well, I've got all my limbs, I'm good. And NYU was really supportive. They immediately offered anything I needed, free therapy, whatever it is. And I went to talk therapy and I just, I talked it out and I had no issue talking it out. But, and I knew I wanted to finish school and I wanted to stay in New York. and I remember just needing to like choose fear or like a greater faith.

And I'm like, I have faith that I'm supposed to be here for a reason. Like, I'm just going to keep doing what I do every day. But it wasn't really until I was in and I was so in the throes of like getting ready for law school and you know, I was busy, right? So it's easy to kind of compartmentalize it. And it wasn't until I was really dealing with the stress of law school that I was like, oh, like I'm just beaten down. And I knew it wasn't just because of law school. And I looked at a pair of shoes, I don't even know if they were running shoes in my closet. And I just said like, maybe I'm just gonna jog to campus today. And I've never had the impulse to jog.

I literally, I think my mom hates when I tell this story, but as a physician, I used to like sneak off and take a script from her pad and write notes to get out of gym class. Like totally illegal, but I was that, I had such a fear of physical activity because I told myself, you're not an athlete, you're going to be picked last, you can't run. I got made fun of, which is ironic, I got made fun of by a kid when I was like 10 in gym class for the way I ran. So I always told myself like, don't embarrass yourself, like just don't even show up. So that was a very odd thought for me to think, let me just put these shoes on and run to class. But I did, and I just kept doing it. And I felt like, oh, I'm physically running it out.

Like, the stronger I physically feel, I'm gaining a little bit of my power back. And I never before equated power, feeling powerful, with a physical understanding of like space and movement. And that was a really big light bulb movement for me. Yeah, I mean, it's also that, because you're essentially, it's like you're running the trauma out of your body at the same time.

I mean, on the one hand, you're running into a place of power. No, I was running it out. Right, you're processing out of your body. And it's like when you look at all the latest research that I've seen on PTSD, so much of the therapeutic world around that is coming around to the idea that like we can't actually

just treat the mind alone. Like the body, it becomes, trauma can be, it becomes so physically embodied. Yes. That like you've got to actually add some level of physicality to it if you really want to process it. Oh yeah, I'm a firm believer of that. And I don't think one,

I could have done one without the other. Like I think it was the right path. I think for a year, I just like, I was like, how many more times can I talk about this story? And then finally I was like, well, clearly I've got a heavy physical internal weight that I just need to start to like chip away at. That's what the runs did for me. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

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Like you're just non-stop heads down. Like basically everything gets shut down. You put on your shoes and you run. Like what's the physical sensation for you? The first time you're actually like, I'm gonna go and just run. I'm pretty sure it was like horrible. Right.

I think it was pretty horrible. You know, that's hard. But you know, it was out of necessity. And I think that's why, first of all, in terms of time management, I'm like, well, I could drive two miles or I could just try to jog it. Right. And so for me, it was like, OK, well, this is practical because I'll still get there and I'll get my exercise. I don't have to carve out another 30 minutes of my day to work out.

Not that I really was doing that anyway at the time. It was out of necessity because I was like, all right, well, I don't have to carve out another 30 minutes of my day to work out. Not that I really was doing that anyway at the time. It was out of necessity because I was like, all right, well, I don't have a car. And this was really before apps and Ubers and you could just hail a... This was in the suburbs that I grew up, I went to Villanova. So this was Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. There's trains and stuff, but it wasn't really that easy to get around if you didn't have a car. And so yeah, there was a practical omen.

Well, I've made it halfway, I better get to class. That's too funny. Did you have books in the bag with you? I would leave my books, so I would either leave my books in the locker or have a friend take them. Yeah.

So you start doing this, I mean after the first time, did you know after that very first time that something had switched for you, or was it just like you did it once, whatever, and then for some reason you kept going back to it? I think it was, I remember depositing a check at the bank and seeing a flyer for a 10K

that happened to be the next morning. I didn't know how far 10K was, and again, I didn't have a smartphone, so I wasn't like, I was like, 10K, I don't know, whatever that is, I'll do it. So I didn't look up the distance and mileage. And I don't even think I would have understood in mileage what that even feels like because you don't know what it feels like to run 6.1 miles until you do it. And I did it, and it was really tough, and I vowed that it would never be that tough again. So that was the kind of, then I had a goal anchored to the experience.

Then I was like, okay, now I know I can physically do this. There's a distance and a time element. How can I play with that to make it, to maintain this momentum? So you made the vow, it's never going to be this hard again. A lot of people will do that and they make the vow, I'm never gonna do this again. So my curiosity is like, what happens in your mind that's so different than other people's minds that makes you say, huh, that was really hard,

it didn't feel good, but it's gonna happen again and it can't feel the same way instead of, okay, check that box, that was brutal, never again. Yeah, that's so interesting. I think I really associate discomfort with pride. Huh. What's that from? I don't know. I just, I really feel, I think like I loved law school. Like I loved just being like, okay, you have like 500 pages to read tonight.

Like, like not from a place of suffering or this kind of like martyrdom, but it's like how, I love that sense of being gritty and feeling like, how are you going to rise above this and how are you going to rise above this and how are you going to rise above this? And it was a unique experience because I actually hadn't had, like I knew how to be academic. I knew how to go and read and study for a test and write a paper and this was really brand new. I'm like, I don't know how to do this. Like, and not necessarily in a learned skill. Like, of course, if you don't learn how to play the violin,

you're not gonna play the violin. But this was like something really innate. Like, you put one foot in front of the other and the simplicity of it was actually fascinating. Cause I'm like, I can't do this well, but it's also something I've been doing walking around the world my whole life. So that kind of, I think the simplicity of running allowed me to enter it in a way that

was like, I'm just going to own this in my way. So what was that way? I mean, I needed, so I felt still intimidated by the running community. I wasn't a track star. And I saw people at these races with all the fancy stuff and kitted out. And I like the idea of representing, you know, I wanted to show up with like wearing gold rings and black eyeliner and like wearing what I wanted to wear, like representing what I wanted to represent or how I thought I was having a visual conversation with the world.

And thankfully, throughout my running journey, I was really welcomed when I came back to New York and I started practicing law. I was welcomed by a running group called the New York City Bridge Runners. And they are a really amazing cobbled together group of like DJs and artists and people who never went to college and people who are lawyers like me and then doctors. And like, it was a mixed bag of mayhem. And I was like, I can get down with this because we can show up to races like whoever we want to be. And so can the person who, you know, is wearing the same kit from their high school track me.

Like, cool, live your life. That's awesome. But I hadn't really seen a lot of that. So running as a lifestyle, running as kind of an expression of a lifestyle, really came into vogue when I started falling in love with running. And then I happened to meet people, others, who were willing to express running as a lifestyle. And we would go on runs at 9, 10 p.m. and then go out to gallery openings and clubs and dinners. And it was just like, we were a crew, you know?

And that really emboldened me to be like, I have a voice in this space. And that was powerful. Do you ever wonder what would have happened if you hadn't somehow stumbled upon the bridge runners? Like do you think you would still have like, would this entire journey have been just radically different and had that discovery never happened? I think the path would have been really different, right? So I think if I would have joined maybe a more traditional running group, I don't know

if I would have truly fallen in love with running the way I did because I happened to sign up for half marathon, sign up for a marathon, simultaneously start to run with bridge runners, really feel like I could get into my own with using running not only as a tool, but also as potentially a profession. So I know that I would have been in fitness anyway, but I don't know what I'm certain that the path would not have been what it has been, which is primarily running, then writing a book, and then, you know, ending up with cycling and Peloton. Yeah, I mean, because you, like the phrase running as a lifestyle is really interesting,

because that's been around in a lot of different ways for a long time, but it's like, I think, I often wonder that if you don't find, the part of the lifestyle is the culture of like that you share with other people who are doing the similar thing. And if the huge part of the existing culture when you step into something new like that

isn't something that vibes with you. It's like you have two choices, well three choices, either quit or just do it solo, assimilate into that culture or find or create your own group. So it's not just you always running in isolation, it's you like, okay, so there are people like me in this space who we can actually create

like a family around. We can share the love of running, and also all the other sort of cultural identifiers and things that are meaningful to us about the way we wanna live in the context of running and also the broader life. And it's like the, I feel like a lot of times that is as important as the actual exercise modality

in what keeps you in it. Oh yeah, I mean I think, I know, community is the linchpin to most movements. And certainly like, no's had an actual movement. Like if you can find a community you feel proud of, you're much more likely to keep coming back. Yeah. So you end up coming back to New York,

you discover original, at the same time you're starting your law career, right? New York City, not the easiest place in the world to practice law, I practiced here also. And you end up in a giant firm also, which, you know, the reputation for a lot of big firms in New York is essentially, okay, welcome to the firm, here's a giant paycheck, we'll take your life.

What was your experience working? I worked my ass off, but you know, I knew that going into it. I didn't, and thankfully, like, I was a young person, I didn't have kids, but you know, I knew that going into it. I didn't and thankfully like I was a young person I don't didn't have kids still don't have kids, you know, I was single like I I was like I'm going all in and I actually have extremely There were lots of tough moments, but I the when I look at when I look back at that part of my story arc I actually have really fond memories of the law firm. It wasn't my passion and I know that now, but it felt good to be challenged in that way. Like I liked the challenge

of needing to suss out, like even at a junior level as a junior associate, you know, these day-to-day problems. And it was during subprime and I was working on a lot of SEC cases and like, I mean, it's just like, it's so hysterical because I went to law school so I didn't have to do math and every day I was speaking with like forensic accountants. I'm like, what is happening? But yeah, I mean, I left as a rising, I think a rising seventh year. So, and I was a summer associate also at the same law firm, Paul Hastings. And you know, so that's a big chunk of your 20s to give to a place.

And I really had a lot of admiration for the people I worked with. But there was no way I was going to continue counting down the hours until I could have like my 30 minute run or my loop around the park or my meet up with bridge runners. I was like, this is nonsense. Like I am literally at the office all day counting down to when I could feel like I'm putting on my superhero cape to do the thing I was meant to do. It was definitely a two year slow process of my departure because I like running.

Okay, lots of people like running. How the heck am I gonna monetize this if I'm not gonna be an actual competitive professional athlete, you know? So that was the conundrum. Yeah, I mean, and it's so, it's funny, there's so many parallels. I started out at the SEC in New York. I know about your days, gosh.

Which was interesting. I was like on the other side, like the emails that you'd be sending and stuff like that. And we were enforcement division in New York. So we were like constantly investigating people like in cinder block rooms under secrecy. And then I went to a large firm in Midtown doing securities work and had a similar Jones. I realized that I was physically kind of dying inside. And I, for me, like the wake up call was I ended emergency surgery when my immune system shut down and things weren't good and thankfully everything was fine. So I had a faster transition after that because my body was literally rejecting my career.

But for me also, I was a kid who was deeply fascinated with movement and I was a gymnast for the first half of my life. So one of the things that I, and this is my curiosity with you, I kind of knew, like once I decided, okay, so I'm out, I also knew, okay, I've invested a lot of money, a lot of time in this, I have this powerful,

prestigious job, an insane paycheck, for somebody that was my age back then. And stepping away from that, there was a lot of internal judgment and I knew I was about to get hit with a lot of external judgment too, especially to step into the world of quote fitness, where I think a lot of people in the professional world, they're like, you cannot do,

like you have what everyone wants, why would you ever do that? Did you have those sort of like inner dialogues, like when you were doing that two year window, or were you just like, nah, this is gonna happen? You know, it's interesting, and I get that question a lot, and I think I just had myopic vision for figuring it out. So there were practical elements, right?

So like, I lived in a walk-up with my entire locker, I lived below my means, I didn't want anything fancy, I didn't want to be saddled with a mortgage I couldn't afford, I didn't, I was just like, I'm gonna save, you know, live, I traveled a lot, you know, I lived, but I was like, I'm gonna make sure that I don't have to be at this job without having to ask for any support from my parents, which I never did. And so there was a practical element

of like, how are you going to pay your bills? How are you going to pay your rent? How are you going to live? Cool. So once I felt like I had that sorted enough, a little bit of runway, I took a leave of absence and I kind of started dabbling. But the external pressures, I think thankfully I was surrounded by people who were doing really unconventional things. Like when you're going on runs with graffiti artists and occasional drug dealers, you know what I mean? These are people who are just living on their terms and good people, kind people, but they're

doing their thing. When you see that, it's almost like you can't be what you can't see. When you see somebody running literally to the beat of their own drum, you're like, how can I pave my own way? Thankfully, my family was really supportive. They always, first of all, I'm not really one to receive a no very well. So I'm just gonna keep doing it, you know? And my family really trusted my instincts

and my preparedness. But the, yeah, there was definitely a question mark of like, you're doing what? You're gonna go do like, I don't get it, are you a blogger? Like what do you do? And a lot of those people aren't in my life anymore and some of them now are on the other side of the screen

when I'm teaching at Peloton and I'm just like, hey. Nice to see you again. No, that's awesome. My first step out was as a personal trainer. Learning the fitness industry because I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I wanted to know the industry and find out what was broken, how to fix it. And the big concern for me was like I remember literally like running around Central Park with clients.

And I'm like, what if one of my old, you know, like zillionaire clients from the law firm sees me in tights and ripped up old t-, like stretching a client on the grass in Central Park. And I was like, okay, so there was like, there was just an ego thing that I had to kind of work through. But what's fascinating about you is like, it seems like you constantly put yourself in scenarios where you are presented with the hard path and the easy path. And whereas a lot of people will be like, ah, I'm okay with the easy path. You look at the hard path and you're like, oh, I like hard. Like, I can, like, this is, it's an imitation to you

rather than something that says, you know, like now go the other way. I find the difficult path, it beckons. It really just beckons. And I've always understood, hmm understood that you have to make it matter in order to make it happen. And I think I make the difficulty matter to me. So whether it's a tough training run or a tough business meeting or just even days where you're just like, ugh, what is the point of this? You know, you have to kind of remember.

And for me, you know, I really do fear mediocrity. Like I think about my legacy. Like what do I want to be talking about when I'm 90? Like I hope I have really amazing stories to tell and kids and grandkids to make proud and you know, my mother to honor and my father to honor. I mean, that stuff like matters to me in a very, very palpable way.

So I've just made that part of my story matter. And it is such an overarching thing that sometimes that can be a little bit like vague and overwhelming. But for me, in my micro decisions, I really do think about that. And then sometimes it's a practical element of like, listen, I have this race to run, just go and do it. Right? So it's like it's like, I think it's layered motivation and layered kind of, a layered approach to constantly reigniting that fire and constantly flexing that willpower muscle.

And then I have my priorities. I say no to a lot of stuff just so I can have bandwidth and energy and dedication to the difficult path. Because you can't be everything to everyone and I'm okay with not being everything to everyone. Yeah, do you feel like the fact that it's hard is a big part of what makes it worth it? Oh my God, yes.

I mean, if things were handed out, if running a marathon were truly, truly easy, and you polled people and they were like, yeah, 26.2 miles, no biggie, and you get the medal, do you feel as proud? Or do you treat it like a precious, you know, diamonds are on every block on the street in New York City? Would they be as valuable? No. It's like you got to, you have to earn your value. And I think that there

is some kind of the currency of like energy and hustle and sweat and grit. Like I talk about being kings and queens, you know, and this kind of regal narrative of like stepping into your power and like not letting your crown slip. I firmly believe the jewels of my crown are made of grit and hustle and sweat, and that it's because I know that journey, I know that path, it will always be worthwhile to me.

And even the missteps and even the failures are just feedback. Yeah, I mean, it's like the power of the long cut. You know, I think so many people just wake up in the morning and they're like, what's the shortcut that gets me from here to there? You know, and even if you find it, like a lot of times you don't, but sometimes you do.

But then you get there and you're like, well that doesn't actually feel the way I thought it would feel. It's like, it's the long cut. It's like the doing the hard work. It's the putting your head down when it really sucks and staying in it, you know, not to the point where it becomes destructive, but it's the fact

that you endured that, you know, and then you rose through it that like to me, that's always, that's what makes the outcome worth it at the end. So it's like, if somebody just showed up one day and said, okay, so here it is, like here's the answer or here's the end, you know, you can check that box and move on. It's kind of like Okay, then it just doesn't matter anymore You know, but it's interesting because I don't think a lot of people don't look at life that way They're constantly like what's the fastest easiest path to get there?

Not realizing that there ain't gonna feel the way you think it's gonna feel unless you've earned your way there. And it's so, yeah, and it's so ephemeral, right? So, like, I think we look at life as being punctuated by these big achievements. So it's like I'm getting this degree or marrying this partner and having this, whatever. And it's like those maybe moments fueled with pride and joy, but that is so

fleeting when you can start to find those little moments in the glimmers of all the everyday mundane stuff in the process. That's when you truly will achieve that, oh, that that frequency. Like I just look at it like a radio frequency. Like how can you tune into that a little bit every day? Because it's really like, you get your degree, how many people are still riding high from their college graduation day? Like no, you don't even think about it anymore.

You know what I mean? So these are just moments. Well I gotta say in the law, like so many people point back to like whether they made law review. Oh gosh yes. 20 years ago it's like top thing on the resume. It's a very, very strange, odd, weird thing. And we'll be right back

after a word from our sponsors. So you got to a point where you're like, okay, I'm at the end of my two years, I'm done, I'm out, movement, exercise, fitness. Seven years. Seven years. Yeah. Right. But then there's like the two year window where you're kind of thinking, okay, so how do I make this transition? What's the first step out for you? What do you actually do? So I kind of put one toe out or one foot out.

I took a three month leave of absence, unpaid, but I was still kind of on the books and still had my health insurance, which is a big deal at the time. And I traveled, I is a big deal at the time. And I traveled, I did a bunch of races and I kind of put my name out there. I was like, I want to be able to get paid to do social media storytelling about running. I want to, you know, I would just talk to anyone who listened.

And at the time, the running group, Bridge Runners, was doing a lot of work with Nike. So I had a lot of contacts there. And then I was back at the law firm for a few months, and it was just coming up on the eve of the 2012 London Olympic Games. And I had started previously, maybe a year or two prior, a blog, a Tumblr, to document my first marathon training. And it kind of got a little bit of traction. The name of the blog was Shut Up and Run.

And I was like, maybe I should just go to the games and like, quote unquote, report from the games. And the law firm was like, we're not giving you another law, leave absence, either you're in or you're out. So I was like, gosh, I guess I'm out. And that was when I was truly like, I ripped off the bandaid, no more income, you're living on your savings, you know, the big deal. And I bought a plane ticket that cost more than my rent at the time for my one bedroom

walk up, cost more than my rent. And I just hustled. I hustled to get interviews. I hustled to get tickets. I just reported in my way, in my kind of like on the ground way when Instagram was just really getting kind of, I guess, big. That was my kind of like on the ground way, when Instagram was just really getting kind of, I guess big. That was my point of view.

It was like, this is the hustler's point of view of the London Olympic Games as a non-professional athlete. And that gave me a little bit of visibility and so like just unchecking the boxes and perhaps creating my own way to do things. And I also look at it as an example of doing your homework and being prepared for the phone call. Like I often say, a lot of people like talk about Oprah, the Beyoncé's or these iconic people that they would love to like just like meet or work with.

And my follow-up question is, would you be prepared if Oprah called tomorrow? Like are you ready? Are you ready to like do the work and have the conversation? And like, are you ready to meet that greatness with your version of greatness? And I had read a lot about Mark Parker, the Nike CEO, and I happened to see him in London in a shoe store. And the only reason I recognized him or knew anything about him was because I had done my research.

And we just got to talking and he was like, wow, he just approached me. He's like, you have a great sense of style. You should have a blog. And I was like, funny you ask, I do. And I gave him like this cobbled together business card. I didn't even know what it was. But it was just like a reminder of like, you got to be prepared for the greatness that you're asking for. And then I just so happened that same in the London Olympic Games trip, I met someone who was working on the agency side where Nike women was their client.

And then I basically left London with a job to work for Nike women on their social media campaigns. So I left London, I came home with a job. I came to New York City and I was like, wow, I'm working at this agency, we're doing all this creative work. And it was at the agency about six months in that I realized, oh gosh, I still don't like this. I want to tell my own story.

I want to be able to monetize that. So that second leap was actually much scarier because I thought I had my dream job and I didn't. And even working with one of the best brands in the world, I didn't want to be behind the scenes. I didn't want to be that, you know, behind the cloak of the great and powerful Oz. I wanted to be like out there doing the thing, like building the yellow brick road.

You wanted to be Oz. Well, no, because Oz was an illusion, right? So like, but using that same analogy, I wanted to be like building the road to the Emerald City, a real Emerald City, not just this illusion of like, oh, you're writing tweets and it seems, you're writing about female empowerment, but like you don't actually feel empowered because it's still behind the scenes.

Which is kind of interesting how it comes full circle to the major you created as an undergrad. Literally building the yellow brick road. Yeah. Sort of like you were doing, you spent four years fundamentally studying. How do you do that? Like what are all the universes? Like what are all the different domains

and how do they come together to help somebody actually do that, to create that reality? Well, when I was in school, I loved studying like the different ways the medium contributes to the message. I mean, like classic McLuhan, Marshall McLuhan stuff. But you know, it's like with the printed page, we had linear thoughts, right?

You know, with the bards, there were oral conversations, the stories were circular. So I really do think about that stuff, and I'm like, what's contributing to how I'm perceiving this story right now? Like I really, I get meta and I get meta often. And at that point in my life, I'm like, telling the story. Like I'm receiving this story right now. I get meta and I get meta often. At that point in my life, I'm telling the story. I'm writing copy.

I'm actually telling the story, but I'm the freaking story. The light bulb went off and I'm like, I could literally charge for my opinions as a consultant and be making more money and it would feel more true to who I am. That's when things changed. I stopped accepting free shoes and I started charging an hourly rate for my ideas. And I had no idea what I was doing and I had no idea what to charge, but I had to just like take that second leap because that felt more true to the course I needed to take. And thankfully, social media actually had like and still has like a currency, you know,

of relevance. So without that, I would have been in bad shape. But thankfully, it was part of the time when Facebook and Twitter and Instagram were becoming relevant marketing decks. Yeah. I mean, it's also you saw that. You actually had your finger on the pulse of the fact that these things were allowing you to be an entity unto yourself, to have direct access. Both to the people who might pay you as a consultant for your ideas, for your thoughts, for your voice,

and also directly to the people who you might go out and say, like, come along with me, like, let's build this yellow brick road together. Yeah, I mean, that thing that- It's like it didn't just drop into your lap. You cultivated sort of like the fierce sense of observation to just constantly see what's coming. It's like you said when you were in, at the Olympics and you bumped into the person from Nike, he used the phrase, just so happened.

Yeah. It didn't just so happen. True. You know, like I got to believe in your reality and the life that you create, like there's very little that just so happens. It's like you're constantly out there making it happen. And I think that's a huge difference. When you said, you know, like when Oprah calls,

when whoever that person is you want to call, like are you going to be ready? You know, that's not about waiting for the phone to ring. That's about what you do. That's about stepping out and saying, I am going to constantly be out there making things happen. It may not be the ultimate thing that I want to happen, but anything that I can grasp, I'm going to push and make it happen.

So when you finally step out completely on your own, at this point, how does the world respond to that? Oh, gosh. You know, on the creative side, related to kind of being consultants on photo shoots and things like that, that worked pretty well. And I was sometimes, you know, casting campaigns. But from the writing side, I also fashioned myself like this burgeoning journalist. And I was like, oh, I'm just going to write for magazines who were having, obviously,

we all know that industry has had a lot of pressure in the last 20 years, 10 years especially. So I would pitch these articles to editors who may or may not know who I am, definitely probably didn't know who I was, and get quoted rates and stuff and be like, my jaw was just on the floor. I was like, oh, so this isn't like, you know, that was a rude awakening, a necessary awakening. But I just kept writing and I just kept writing and I just kept focusing on the ways that things that I always say this in training, focus on what you can control. I was like, I can write at a laptop, I can keep pitching.

And that process of like writing and pitching and keep creating and writing and pitching, even though a lot of times I was told no and it never actually got to, you know, an engagement with the magazine, at least I was like constantly trying to understand the pulse of the industry and what people wanted to talk about and then I would use my own blog and social media to engage in those conversations. Then my following grew and then my presence grew. And so it was like I channeled the nos into the only things I can control, which were like my own platforms, my own yeses. And then finally things, people

started piping up and paying attention. And then out of really kind of boredom, I decided, I just want to start teaching at my local spin studio because I love spin. And I had already my certification from when I was a lawyer because I just wanted to geek out on the science of conditioning of it. And that just really started because I was like, I have gaps in my day. This doesn't make sense. Let me just keep doing it because it wasn't necessarily that it was very lucrative. I just wanted to do it.

And thankfully that, the people there, I didn't know how to teach. I couldn't listen to beats. Like there were, when people under, like my friends remind me of that time in my life when I was trying to learn how to be a spin instructor. And they were like, oh my gosh, you would come home just like drained and frustrated and not understanding how you passed the bar exam, but couldn't do this. You know, and I'm sure you have times when you were a personal trainer, you're like,

how was I like a high flying attorney and now I can't teach somebody how to do a push-up? It's very humbling because it's a very different skill set. It requires precision. It requires hard work. So thankfully, the folks at that studio really, really took the time to teach me how to be a teacher and how to be an instructor. And I'm incredibly grateful for that time. And that is what then teed up, you know, me reading about John Foley and Peloton and reaching out directly and saying, I'm ready for this.

And actually, I wanna talk more. I wanna dive into Peloton as well. But along the way, you know, it's really one of the things we haven't really shared is like you're deepening into your own fitness. You're running more and more and more. You're starting to run longer and longer races and ultra marathons.

But at the same time, you also end up getting diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. Oh my gosh, yeah. I mean, I literally, not that I forget, I never forget, but yes, that's a very integral part to the story. I came home from India after a trip with my mother and my sister and I was just so dehydrated and I thought it was jet lag. I'm like, this is weird. Of course, my mother as a physician was like, we've got to get you blood work.

This doesn't make sense. And I was diagnosed as a type 1 diabetic. My pancreas produces little to no insulin. So I'm insulin dependent and I have technology now, thankfully, that helps me with that. But that – I was already running ultra marathons at the time. I was already running ultra-marathons at the time. I was already running 50-milers and more. I think I had a few races in the next month after my diagnosis. The doctor pulls out this—I'm a plant-based athlete, and this doctor pulls out this food

chart with like, this is how many ounces are in a glass of milk and stuff. And I was like, I couldn't, I was like both like horrified and incensed. I'm like, this is not the conversation we're having. How am I going to run a 50 mile marathon, ultra marathon in six weeks? With diabetes one plant-based. Yeah. Yeah. All of it. And I. Yeah, yeah, all of it. And I'm like, I'm not changing course. We're just going to have to figure out how this adapts to me.

Thankfully, I think if I hadn't already been an athlete, it would have been a lot tougher because, you know, I wasn't, I didn't, not type one because I wasn't healthy, you know what I mean? Like it was, it's, it's an autoimmune condition. So that was, and I was already very self-aware of like, when I eat something, how do I feel? What are my energy levels? Like truly like any biohacking, I was kind of already on that trend. So now I just like have to do it as part of my day-to-day self-care. But yeah, that was really tough. And it was tough because a lot of folks in

the medical community, at least the ones I had access to at the time, they didn't really get it. They're like, oh yeah, I had a patient once who ran a half marathon. I'm looking at them like, this is my freaking life, and I'm way more intense than one half marathon. I'm gonna keep doing this and do it aggressively. So it's like I worked so hard to create myself

into an athlete, I wasn't gonna let this derail me. So how do you find the team from there? Yeah, that's intense. So you go to somebody like, your person who's normally, they're great, they're smart, they're skilled, they're accomplished, they're a great physician or team. Oh, for sure.

But at the same time, you're not the average patient. Correct, and they admit it. You are on the extreme of what anybody with even the best training in the world is used to dealing with and used to advising and being in partnership with as a healthcare provider. So how do you then assemble a person or a team who is down with taking this journey with you

and capable of just adapting on the fly and being gritty on the level that you are. You know, it's still a work in progress, right? So I obviously have baseline medical care that I get and blood work and you check your A1C and all that kind of stuff. But a lot of it was taking it into my own hands and trial and error.

And people ask me all the time, I don't get it, I can barely go on a 30 minute run. How do you do five hours? I'm like, I take big risks. Like, I'm not saying people should do what I do, but I was willing to take big risks because it mattered so much to me that it was like, okay, do I like totally suspend my insulin? Do I not, you know, do I need, how much do I need to eat? Like, you just figure it out. I needed to do it on my own terms and take risks and I haven't had any serious medical scares. Yeah, what's on the other side of that risk for you though? Because for you to say, okay, so I take big risks,

I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna go out and go on five hours. What's it in the name of? Like in your mind, what are you gonna get? What are you gonna feel? What are you going to experience that in your mind is like, oh hell yeah, it's worth it? What are you going to experience that in your mind is like, oh hell yeah, it's worth it? I don't want to be defined by a medical condition. I don't want to be defined by, for the same reason that I don't want to be only understood

as a Latina or a vegan athlete or my title at Peloton or a global ambassador for Adidas. Like, I don't want to be known by any one of those things. I decide who I am. And when I can own my own agency and reaction to some of these risks that maybe sometimes they don't always go so well, when I can at least own that, I feel like I'm at least dictating the story and it's not being dictated to me. And that's always going to be important to me because I don't need to live for somebody else's title. I create my own titles.

Yeah. So Peloton, you're managing all this and this is just managing feels like it's like actually not even doing what you're managing all of this and this is just, managing feels like it's like actually not even doing what you're doing service. Like that word isn't right. You are embracing it, you're just sort of like fiercely immersed in this process. And from your experience versus with indoor cycling, how does Peloton happen? So I've read about Peloton, well I've read about

Peloton's CEO. First we should probably explain what Peloton happen? So I've read about Peloton at, well I've read about Peloton CEO. First we should probably explain what Peloton is. Yeah, so Peloton is a company that offers fitness products, a bike, a tread, and a digital app that offers content married with the hardware where you have live cycling tread or strength classes, yoga classes, meditation that you can access right from the comfort of your living room or at the reach of your phone. Or if you are lucky to be in New York. Or if you're lucky, you can come down,

come on down to the New York City Peloton Studios. So how do you get involved in that? I read about the company and I thought, this is genius. This is, you want to talk about story arc. This is like scaling fitness and entertainment and technology in a way that's ever been done before. Obviously there's lots of, even at the time there were a lot of digital plays for fitness and YouTube was like a black hole of fitness.

But this was modern and sophisticated and I I had, at the time, a vision board of brands that I admired and respected and I wanted to work with. And Apple was on there. And I remember reading about Peloton and thinking, and then even I think the moniker at the time was like Apple of fitness or Netflix of fitness. And we've well exceeded that in terms of a definition. That's kind of one note.

But at the time it was pretty accurate and I thought, oh, maybe there's synergy here. So we weren't, this is before the studios were even built. We were filming, the first bikes weren't even in homes yet. Like this was really nascent. So when was this then? So this would have been five years ago. Been five years ago, yeah.

Just over five and a half years ago. So I started the company five years ago, February. So you were there in the really, really early days then? Yeah, I mean not as early as the co-founders, but yes, this is after they got some money, the bikes are being built, and now it's the time to hire the talent. So I was, I think, the third instructor hired at the company. And we were

cutting shows, you know, literally from a closet. We refer to it affectionately as the closet. And this was, there was 30 people in a room. It was the co-founders. I mean, the CTO, like our former chief information officer, Yoni Feng, used to cut my shows. I mean, now we hire folks, much more junior folks, to do that. So it was just like an all hands on deck, like, we're just going to get this off the ground. So it was really cool. It was a really cool time. And I remember it fondly because we were and we're in still are like incredibly scrappy. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting also, because if you zoom the lens out, what they're doing

as a company, as a brand fits your mentality about doing the hard thing. Oh, yeah. Because, like the fitness space has been really interesting for a really long time and brutally hard, but there have been so many people who've come and tried to figure out, and for those who've never tried it at all, so like there's this fantastic programming and you can do it in your own home,

but they've also produced a bike, you know, like their version of an indoor cycling bike that you get at home, which is, I've ridden pretty much every bike on the planet. This thing just destroys them. It is gorgeous. Yeah, thank you. So smooth. It is the best. And so, but what they did was they're like people for years in the fitness world have

been trying to figure out how do we create a modality where people can do it at home. It accommodates everybody. It's actually fun, engaging, interactive, reinforcing. And there's a piece of equipment that is, you know, like a real investment also that goes along with it. People have been trying to figure out to crack that nut for a long time, and nobody's been able to.

And it's always been considered, and the industry's super hard. And then Pelican comes along, and they're like, we're gonna crack that nut. You know, and it's almost like, knowing that nobody's been able to do it yet, people have been trying for years, but if you can, you know, like,

this is like the definition of Blue Ocean, right? You'll own that for a window of time, and it's interesting to me that you were attracted to that brand. It just so goes along with it, with who you are. It definitely does, and I'm glad they also saw the synergy because they really accepted me with open arms. Yeah.

Yeah. So you've been rolling with them for five and a half years now. You wrote a book also. I did. Yeah. During this time, I wrote a book. Just because. Sometimes I got free time, just hanging out, totally bored, nothing else going on. I think I'll write it. Because how hard could that be, right? Which also takes the name of, I guess, the original blog, right? Yes, it does. So I can run. Right? So why this? Like with everything else that you have going on, right,

with your fierce commitment also to movement, to being out there, to being super active, and especially, like, so I'm a writer, I'm a couple of books in also, it is a notoriously, you know, like sedentary pursuit for a fixed window of time. Why that? Like, where does that fold into your master plan? Well, you know, when I left law,

I did an honest assessment of my skill sets, and I'm like, I know how to write, I know how to speak, I know how to engage people, I know how to lead. And I always wanted to find ways to still honor that because those were the things I loved about being a lawyer was I actually loved writing briefs and stuff, even if the topic was a little mundane. So when I was approached by an agent, like, hey, would you consider putting together a book proposal?

Let's see if anybody bites. And it was a crazy summer because I was already teaching at Peloton full-time. I was approached by this book publisher, put together a very traditional book proposal, but also with more imagery because I knew that my book would kind of be part training manual, part my own story, mini memoir, and then a visual representation of how I pursue sport, which I think is a very central element to my brand. Sweating with swagger, I think, is not only the visual conversation you're having with the world, but how you step into power in your own way. And for me, that's always been, there's a stylistic element to that.

And so anyway, put together the book proposal and then National Geographic contacts me to go on this trek through the Serengeti in Tanzania. And this was literally all happening, like my book proposal was due and then I was leaving in two weeks. And this was the exact time. And thankfully, we had some folks, some publishers who were interested in the book. And my agent was like, I'm just gonna have to, like, suss this out while you're gone. So I was gonna be completely offline, like, living in Tanzania for six weeks. And I was like, okay, I trust you. And then I got back from the Serengeti and I had a book deal.

And they were like, you have a till this day. And it was like, tada, welcome home. You have four months to do this. And'm like oh okay it's like watch what you asked for you better be ready so yeah I had to just do it you know I had a deadline I treated it like a finish line it was like every day you just chip away you do it you do it you do it I was a fascinating experience but a necessary one because I was stretched and I you know I look forward to being stretched more well I mean the book itself is gorgeous.

And it's so interesting because, and naturally to know that you did that in four months is kind of mind-blowing because the average person takes a lot longer to write a book. Just the words, just the manuscript. And what you created is this like, it's like, it is so you. It's gritty, it's alive, it's like energetic,

it's beautiful, it's filled with motion and images pretty. It's alive. It's like energetic. It's beautiful. It's filled with motion and images. And it's almost like, like it represents your entire ethos, which kind of like takes it all the way back to when you started with Bridgewaters. You're like, you know what? The universe of running has a culture which is pretty well defined, right? But that's not you. Yeah.

And almost feels like this is a flag in the sand that says, you can be like this, you can like this, this can be your aesthetic, and this can still be for you, and everyone's invited to this party. Right, or not, you know what I mean? I think it's a statement of saying, do you want to show up to that marathon rocking a red lip? Or not, do it.

And that was very important, and it was kind of a line in the sand. And it's essential for us to show the ways we can show up. And I've always felt incredibly proud of knowing runners who were willing to kind of be the kooky ones, be the unconventional ones, sometimes the fastest, oftentimes not the fastest. And guess what? We're still doing the damn thing and we'll see you at the finish line. And that emboldened, I think, an entire pedigree, I guess, if you want to call it, of runner

who's just like, I'm still going to own this part of my journey, even if I'm this minute mile or this minute mile or wearing this or owning that or wearing it. I often show up to races in like crazy gold jewelry and that just became like my thing. I had this insane Panther ring that I brought with me on the Serengeti and each person could bring one thing. Mine was the most impractical, but I had to. That was like my power source. So I wanted to unpack and demystify running. It can be, it's only as complicated as you make it. And I want people to, I want to meet people where they are and welcome them in. And so that was incredibly central to my mission with the book.

Yeah. It's funny. One of the questions that popped into my mind was when people think of you, what do you want them to think of? But immediately, I'm like, when I think of you, it's like there's no one thing. It's almost like there's a fierce rebel in there that says, I don't want them to think of. How do you even process that question? Yeah, that's a fierce rebel in there that says, I don't want them to think of, like how do you even process that question? Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I do think about it in terms of like,

I often think about like, what are my values, which then goes into what are my brand values and how do you post responsibly and speak responsibly, right? So like, once you get a certain amount of shine, like you gotta take responsibility for that shine. And, ooh, like I know, So once you get a certain amount of shine, you got to take responsibility for that shine. And I know I live via hustler's ethos. And that word hustle means a lot to me.

And it means that you're going to continue choosing the sometimes, oftentimes harder, more difficult, uncomfortable path. I also want to be, in a lot of senses, unapologetic about who I am because that doesn't come, you know, sometimes that might come from a place of ego, but really I feel like I'm blazing sometimes a path for others to be like, you know what, like she did that and she asked for a raise, I'm gonna do that too. Like yes, let's talk about it more. Let's talk about more about knowing our value and adding tax and illuminating each other's

amazingness. Because I don't think we do it enough. Because I think, you know, the most simple example I use is if you see someone wearing like a wild outfit and you're like, oh, I can never wear that. And then you look at him or her and you think, oh, that's other. Like, why not you? That is the central question to my entire life

is like, why not me? Why not me? And that is what I propose to people. Like, why not you to be that person that you are admiring and maybe even a little jealous of, because that means you care. Hmm. It feels like a good place for us to start a circle too. It's like we're getting right into the philosophy. So we're hanging out here in this container in the studio of Good

Life Project. So if I offer up the phrase, to live a good life, what comes up? To live a good life is to tell stories in your final years that you're incredibly proud of. Thank you. If you love this episode, say that you'll also love the conversation that we had with Rich Roll about making the journey from practicing law and dealing with addiction to becoming a sober ultramarathon, an entrepreneur, and successful creator. You can find a link to that episode in the show notes. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsay Fox and me, Jonathan Fields, editing help by Troy Young, Christopher Carter, crafted our theme music, and of course, if you haven't already done so,

please go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app or on YouTube too. If you found this conversation interesting or valuable and inspiring, chances are you did because you're still listening here. Do me a personal favor, a second favor, share it with just one person. I mean if you want to share it with more that's awesome too but just one person even then invite them to talk with you about what you've both discovered, to reconnect and explore ideas that really matter, because that's how we all come alive together. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. I used to say, I just feel stuck. Stuck where I don't want to be. Stuck trying to get to where I really need to be. But then I discovered lifelong learning. Learning that gave me the

skills to move up, move beyond, gain that edge, drive my curiosity, prepare me for what is inevitably next. The University of Toronto School of Continuing Studies. Lifelong learning to stay forever unstuck.