Good Life Project - How to Alchemize Wounds Into Wisdom | Rupda

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

From abandoned child to internationally renowned trauma expert, Rupda shares her transformative journey of resilience and healing.Learn powerful practices for self-belonging, embodying trust, and creating authentic community that allow you to break free from limitations and live your most fully-realized life. Rupda's inspiring story and nurturing presence are a soul-stirring reminder of your infinite capacity for growth.You can find Rupda at: Website | Instagram | Episode TranscriptIf you LOVED this episode, you’ll also love the conversations we had with Bessel van der Kolk about healing trauma through the body.Check out our offerings & partners: Join My New Writing Project: Awake at the WheelVisit Our Sponsor Page For Great Resources & Discount Codes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So, have you ever felt like you didn't truly belong in your family, your community, maybe even within yourself? Like there was this elusive sense of home that just always seemed out of reach. My guest today knows that feeling intimately, having experienced profound abandonment and trauma in her earliest years. Yet Rooped's story is one of breathtaking resilience and transformation. So imagine carrying the weight of a childhood marked by instability, violence, and a desperate search for safety.

Now picture finding solace and spiritual connection in a Buddhist monastery at a young age, building community and safety and resilience, only to have that beautiful world shattered yet again and be left to rebuild your world and your life from the ashes of everything you thought was real and true. What forces of courage and determination would it take to emerge from the depths of disconnection and rediscover your truth when you feel like everything has been taken away again and again. In this deeply moving conversation, my guest, Rupta, shares her remarkable journey from abandoned child to internationally recognized trauma expert and guide for those seeking healing. And you'll learn her most powerful practices for cultivating

self-belonging, embodying trust even when it feels impossible and creating communities of radical authenticity. Roopdha is living proof that true freedom arises only when we reconnect with the core of who we are. As an expert and trained facilitator in somatic experiencing, trauma therapy and leadership development, her just joyful presence is creates this nurturing space reconnect with the core of who we are. As an expert and trained facilitator in somatic experiencing, trauma therapy, and leadership development, her just joyful presence is creates this nurturing space for profound personal growth and transformation. So excited to share this conversation with you.

I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. My curiosity in wanting to just spend some time in conversation with you, actually, I heard you on the Coaches Rising podcast. There was just this beautiful, generous, kind, and wise energy that made me want to know more. So that was the genesis of us reaching out to you. So I appreciate you making time to do it. I think an interesting starting point for us and for our community is really to

take a big step back in time. Your early life was filled with, from the outside looking in, what I would call extremes. And as you shared many times, you also, you were nonverbal for the first chunk of years of your life. Take me into young Roopda's world. take me into young Roopda's world? The journey in how I came into this world was pretty brutal. I can really acknowledge that now, Jonathan. It's taken me some time. And of course, much of the work we do as therapists and facilitators and coaches is that realization in our own kind of past and what we've discovered in that and also meeting it maybe from a different perspective obviously. Because my mother was, she didn't really speak a lot about it, but because she was homeless at the time she had me and she was a teenage mom, at that time in the 60s,

you just didn't have a kid out of wedlock. So she got rid of this kid at birth. And I didn't really think much about it until I started doing trauma work with it, especially supporting people in it. And I started to realize, wow, there's something there, of course. And lucky in a way for me, for nine months, nobody came and adopted me. I got to go back to my mother when she realized that she wanted to keep me. Actually, she had to go get married, you know? And in the 60s, this is what you do. And then I think it was around one and a half, two, when she was in London and had someone had robbed her and money, passport, the whole thing. And because she was in a city that she didn't know and she wasn't accustomed to the place and also snow, she had a breakdown. It was too much for a teenage mom. And so in England,

they have a thing called social services. And so they came and they took me away. And so again, for six months, I was taken away. Now, I don't have any recollection of this, but I have seen some photos, and that's about all I can say of it. There's a lot to be said in how we store and, of course, it doesn't go generational. Can I pause for a second here? I do want to hear the rest of the story. I'm curious, you shared, just shared, you have no recollection, but you've seen photos of, I'm assuming, you during that time. When you look back now with your eyes to those images of you in that moment, what happens? What comes up? What do you notice?

That's funny. No one actually asked me that question. And it's something I decided to put on my phone for the first time because that's exactly the little one that I'm taking care of. And of course, there's a lot we can dig in that in regards to how much wounding we have around there. Now I can look at her, and there's so much love. I've rejected that part for so many years. There's so much love and compassion and tenderness and just wanting to hold her and soothe her and tell her everything's going to be all right. When I did used to look at her, when I didn't really have that understanding of me, there was kind of a numbness, almost like a disassociation to it, a disconnect. And obviously that's probably the way I dealt with it in order to not have to face the pain of what she was going through

when I look at that. Now, of course, it's changed for me because now I've moved through that pain in many degrees and I can really hold her and say, I'm here. Yeah, I'm not going to abandon you. I'm here. Hmm. It's beautiful. Take me back into the story. Yes, thank you. From that, when my mother got me back at social services till age five, I saw things that were very, very violent. And this is part of why I was nonverbal because what I saw was probably not good. I'm not going to say it on the I don't want to shock your listeners, which was so violent that I saw was happening to the one person that was my caretaker, my mother, and I was

powerless to do anything. And then things happened in both directions. So I can look at it now and realize there was absolute shutdown and disconnect. And social services came in again when I was five. And they had been hearing complaints about what was happening in the 16th floor of that building, and it was a very upper-class building. It was well-to-do, but people knew that there was a little child in there and something was not right. And I'll leave it there because it's quite heavy. CB But what happened then is the moment my mom took me to a very beautiful boarding school, private boarding school in

Oxford, and the moment she left me there, that's the moment when I saw her driving away. And that's the memory I have. And I remember her waving through the back of the car window and crying and the headmaster was holding me. And all I could think of is what I had done wrong. And the imprint, of of course is I'm damaged or I'm not lovable or I'm not enough. And she didn't really know better. It's kind of in England, it's very common to send your kid to boarding school, especially my age, Jen. So she didn't think about the boarding school. She knew it was this private boarding school, it was bespoke, but all the kids were 10 years and older and I was five years and I was non-verbal. So I was in the hospital multiple times with

stitches on my head and other things happened. We don't need to go there, but the long short of it was the first seven years were really intense of this feeling of being not wanted. I think that was the biggest one that really stayed with me and that was the piece that I had to do a lot of work around and reflection on. And it showed up, of course, in different kinds of relating, you know, can I really take my space and do I have a right to be here? So lucky for me, Jonathan, that my mother, this was, you know, Bob Dylan, Bob Marley on the radio, it was like mid seventies, all the stuff was going on. Lucky for me, my mother took to that and we ended up going to the Tibetan Buddhist monastery in Scotland,

still there today, called Semiling. And in that moment, a seven-year-old child who's not speaking is observing because they didn't speak my language. It was a perfect way to connect in the nonverbal, and because they didn't speak my language, it was a perfect way to connect in the nonverbal, in the unknown. And also what was happening was there was a lot of connection and there was a lot of compassion. Buddhists are that way by nature. They're so soft and peaceful and playful and didn't matter if we knew the words or not. And in that moment, I linked feeling safe with spirituality. And I don't think I knew it then, but that's what was happening because from that moment on, I turned to my mom and that was my journey. And I went to meditate every morning, five, six in the morning by myself with the monks every morning and she would stay sleeping in bed. I was determined to continue and then I met

another teacher who was very controversial and famous around the world when I was a kid, when I was nine. I said to my mom again, I want to go be with this teacher and meditate and be in the workshops and be in the field. At that time, it was spiritual development and I didn't really know how to put a name on it, but I just knew that this was a safe place and was my place. Yeah. CB When you arrive in this spiritual center and you immediately start to feel this sense of being able to exhale, it sounds like, oh, there's something here. You describe how you weren't speaking up until then. In this environment in the early days, there was a comfort even in that because almost, it sounds like what you're

describing is there wasn't an expectation that you would, which in a way kind of took the pressure off. Does that land? Yeah. Yeah. There was so much going on in the Tibetan Buddhist commune was very different than the next commune I went to, which was more radical in the spiritual sort of time of the mid-70s. But I really felt like I belonged, which is a big piece, as you can imagine. I found my place. And as deep as, and as much as I love my mother, I felt like whatever the rupturedness was starting to kind of her realization of herself, I found my place, my home. Yeah. And I felt embraced in that because there was no right way to doing spirituality in this beautiful community I was in, so I could be me. And at the end, I ended up becoming ruptured the rebel as a little kid,

which was the complete other extreme, right? CB Yeah, the pendulum swings as it often does. I mean, looking back, how do you understand those silent years now or the silence in those years now? to do with not feeling safe and that unpredictability. And it was probably my only way of staying alive at that time. Now I look at silence and turning in in a very different perspective. But then it was completely a different kind of way of dealing with shock. Yeah. Do you recall when something, a switch in your brain flipped and something inside of you said, it's time. I'm okay actually sharing my voice.

When I started sleeping in that Tibetan monastery, I didn't know what dialogue was opening up inside of me. And I felt like I was talking to something that really had my back all of a sudden. Because that deep feeling, that somatic feeling of I am home, I am safe created such an exhalation inside of me and the registration was so strong in my body because the contrast was so large that it was so pivotal. And it opened up such a big dialogue inside of me of who am I and this inquiry to I don't know what you want to call it. We've called it a thousand names, yeah? That feeling that where it's something held by something much bigger. And that dialogue opened. It was very heart-to-heart. And I felt from that moment and still to this day that no

matter if I'm homeless again, I will be okay. And it's such deeply, deeply, deeply entrenched in me. And I have been in rocky moments and I have felt like, wow, how am I going to get through this one? And that voice or that guidance or whatever one wants to call it is there holding me and I feel like a best friend is there. And the words are keep trusting, everything's going to be okay. CB I mean, it's interesting how you share also that from that young age, you began to equate maybe not consciously, but just to really integrate this sense that spirituality is a part of safety, which is a part of okayness. And how unusual to have that experience, I was going to say at such a young age, but I think the truth is that very few people

have it ever. And granted, there's a lot of mixed feelings about spirituality, however, people might define it these days and the sense of relatedness to particular organized religions or paths which they may either embrace or reject. But for you, it's interesting to hear that at such a young age that this just, it landed with you and has never left you since. You shared you became Rupda the rebel soon after that. How did that show up? So the community of the commune, the spiritual commune, and I take it that your listeners know what that means. It was a very, very big place. And my upbringing was being in group rooms, being in kind of retreats and seminars or workshops, whatever people call

them today. And I got to be in the tapestry of that upbringing from childhood, teenagehood to adulthood. So I loved being in there and I was not understanding fully what the adults were talking about sometimes. It got very deep, of course, because I didn't have relationship issues. I was a kid, you know, but I could understand many things. And then, you know, when I would sit in there, sometimes I would get a little bit bored and I'd, you know, these are not my problems yet, you know, they're just not mine yet. So I would go out sometimes and it was a big commune. So it was kind of, you know, ashram is another word for it. It's also was an ashram as well. And I would go out and we had our own little local shop. And every time

they had the big cookies coming out, I would take these big cookies and I would find a way to put it under my jacket. So while everyone is in chanting or doing, you know, some deep processing or meditating, here I am stealing the big cookies because, you know, currency was not our thing. And I was a kid. And then when I got caught, the punishment that was that we had to go do

dynamic meditation every morning for five days. And as a kid, you're like, oh, that's not what I want to go do. But today, ironically, millions of people are doing this meditation. It's a very famous meditation, active meditation. So I got kind of dubbed Rupda the rebel. And every now and then you'd see another kid in there with you doing the same dynamic meditation. You go, oh, you messed up too. Yeah, it's like solidarity. That's great. And I mean, larger context here also, as you described, you know, the world outside the ashram, this is when a lot of sort of like Western culture was discovering this whole world. This is when you know, like the Beatles were heading over and

Ram Dass, and that whole sort of early crew were stepping into, they were heading to India, they were in different ashrams, they were meeting different spiritual teachers and bringing them back to Western culture. But often a lot of the people who were open to that, they were the quote hippies, the counterculture, the revolutionaries out in, so it's kind of funny because you had a little bit

of that energy inside the ashram. Yeah, yeah. You know, I want to say Jonathan that the intense trauma that I had was so extreme. And then I noticed that lightness and playfulness was my saving grace as well. And then what I started to realize is there were people who would just be like, oh, I'm going to sit for three hours and all, and I can see their commitment and

their dedication, but it was never my way in that way. I still would sit for hours and, oh my gosh, the amount of time we sat every morning and every night. But what I came to discover was spirituality was never serious. And if it was serious, then it kind of took away the fluidity of it or the openness or the spaciousness of it or what might come next, the mystery of it. So yeah, it came very natural. CB It's such an interesting observation too, right? Because I do believe that, I'm curious whether you still see this or like out there in the world, speaking with so many different people. But I do see this sense of people equating any quote spiritual path to a sense of rigidity, discipline, heaviness, like asceticism. And you're like, this is just what you do. You have to

sacrifice in the name of this thing. You have to even suffer to a certain extent in the name of quote, reaching this point, whether you call it enlightenment or whatever it may be. And yet the people that I've run across in my life who I feel most just have got it, like they've gotten the transmission. They're truly joyful in their lives and their beings and their relationships. That heaviness doesn't exist within them. And that doesn't mean that the world and their circumstances around them aren't sometimes

really hard and really brutal. But there's something about them where internally, the heaviness doesn't seem to land. There's an access to lightness. I'm curious whether you see that same thing. Fully. Fully. I love how you put that as well. When we get so restricted on dogmas and doctrines, I'm going to be very careful what I say because I don't want to upset anyone. But if you think about it from the perspective of some of these scriptures were written thousands of years ago, and if we kind of placate to everything, we end up kind of holding a particular construct. But there's also that part of us that wants to break free or is bigger than what had happened. I mean, what's alive in your heart today might be different than what somebody wrote

for you to do thousands of years ago. So for some people, it's really hard because it's part of their conditioning. And if I were to step out of the constructs of the particular religion I was raised in, let's say, then the piece around that is often, where do I belong? Once you dare to step out, it is a rebellious spirit to do so for some people, and there's such freedom in it and a lightness in it. And yes, then I see people who I can see in their faces, even if they are challenged in different aspects of life. They've kind of stepped out of the way they think they have to be in life, in the now, in the present, and in enjoyment. I like that.

Yeah, absolutely. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Good Life Project is sponsored by Wild Alaskan Company. So I do my best to eat healthy, clean, tasty ingredients. And seafood is often a part of that. But I always struggled to figure out how to find, how do I put this, fish that I could trust. And that's why I love being able to get my seafood

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That's wildalaskan.com slash good life for $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. So you've used over belonging a handful of times now. I'm curious, take me deeper into how this understanding of belonging emerges and maybe even in the context of these early days in the ashram and studying with a teacher, how does belonging really enter your experience early on? And

how do you start to understand its importance? Well, I think when I look back now, I could see it was a survival strategy to belong and then I'm safe, for sure, that part. Now, later on, not only in my own development, but because I've worked with thousands of people over the years, I can see that if we have a sense of not belonging or we feel disconnected from those that we would like to belong to or have been belonging to, it creates an excruciating isolation inside for some people. Obviously, there's people who can go to India, sit in a mountain and chant, and they feel perfectly fine alone. But there's a lot of people that need for connection is very much connected to belonging and to being part of. And it's also part of our old

survival kind of way of being as tribes. But what I also noticed working with so many different people is that when I ask them, I do many different retreats and there's a particular thing in one of them that I do to register what's in the field. And when I ask about loneliness, that's the biggest one, the biggest one. And I'm always surprised. And I can be in the Netherlands, Mexico, Brazil, Africa, many different countries, Australia, which is my home. So I'm amazed at how core that is. And usually it's pointing to something where they feel they're not even belonging maybe to their partner.

There's a disconnect there. They don't know where they belong in their work life or in their communities. And the way I work with it, Jonathan, is that I work with it, Jonathan, is that I work with it starting here. Because the wounding and the pain of that can sometimes be very outward focus, and we have a need for connection. We're all aware of that. But that first point of connection, that the relationship with yourself is the most important relationship because if you can somehow

befriend this and feel a sense of home here, the way that we then are able to connect with others and feel a sense of belonging is not that hypervigilance and insecurity and doubt and worry. It doesn't come from that place. It comes from this place, the heart center. This has been my experience in working with people from these three centers of intelligence. Yeah. Now that makes so much sense to me. I've always felt similarly that I don't know if it's right to say it's impossible to feel a sense of belonging to and from others unless and until you feel that sense of belonging to and from yourself. But I think it's a lot harder. It seems like, and I'll talk from my own experience, that any sense of belonging

comes with some blend of shape shifting to fit in. So you feel some sort of superficial sense of belonging because it's never you that's actually belonging. It's the form that you've taken, like the avatar. It's a combination of that. Or there's never you that's actually belonging, it's the form that you've taken, like the avatar. It's a combination of that. Or there's a, there's a graspiness to it. There's like a striving for it, there's like an attachment to it, rather than just saying,

I actually already have largely what I need internally. This would be lovely if I also found it around me. But I'm also relatively okay just here with myself at the same time. And I'm raising my hand as somebody who like moves in and out of all of these things on a regular basis. You know, I've been doing a lot of work. And I think that's just like fundamentally part of the human condition, but does that land with you? Yeah, absolutely. And to belong from a place or to be in home in yourself where when you're really at home with yourself, nothing is lacking. So we're not going out in strategies and how to belong,

how to fit in, and then we split, we split off from our true self. Yeah, so absolutely. And that kind of belonging when you're in your heart, then you feel it. Yeah, and you're not worried about losing it. It's connected and it's a different kind of way of doing things, not worried about when it's gonna go. Is there a question, a prompt practice that somebody who's listening to this might be kind of nodding along saying, oh, this feels really resonant to me, but like, what's a first step I might take

to start to explore this sense of self belonging? Is there an opening move that you sometimes invite people into? I'm gonna say something that might rock the boat a little bit, so with your permission. It's all good. I feel like if people are not meditating and being still and slowing down,

even for five minutes a day and saying hello to yourself. Every morning, I wake up and do that. And greeting yourself and open that dialogue and just welcoming yourself in for a moment and just allowing yourself that space and time. Then you're going to be chasing from a particular place this idea of how it's meant to be. But the moment we slow down, we close our eyes. Meditation has been around for thousands of years. I have to say a disclaimer, I've been doing it for 49 years, so I now know that it's the foundation for me for everything. And yet it can be, it's where home is. It's where that deeper feeling of nothing is lacking. It's so much attunement happens in meditation,

even if you can only do it for five minutes. And what I notice is if I'm not meditating and let's say my partner's not doing something that I'm whatever the, anything can show up in relating. Everything does, by the way. If I'm out of alignment with myself, it's so easy for me to project it on the other. Because I often say that anything that's not repaired here is going to show up in the field, whether you're working with individuals or in a relationship. And when we sit silently, close our eyes,

we start to connect to ourselves, welcome ourselves, say hello, open that dialogue. And then the invitation is from there, you start to feel like, oh yeah, I can feel a sense of self, I feel a sense of I have a right to to be here and the belonging starts to open. Hmm. Now that lands definitely. It's funny that you have to put a little disclaimer out there before offering meditation as a practice. But there's definitely, I wonder if it's really if it's the practice that people are reacting to or if it's the sort of the, I don't know, hipsterization of the practice, the outcome orientation of the practice that's so often like the packaging of it. Tell me a little bit more about what you mean by meditation here. As you described earlier in life,

especially like you were introducing, you're sitting literally for hours a day, morning and evening. That is not the typical person's life or lifestyle. And as you just offered, even five minutes a day matters and can make a difference. Are you talking about sitting? Are you talking about, or can we broaden the conversation around meditation and say, this can be me watching the clouds come by.

This can be me walking in nature. This can be me just being deeply present, sitting at a cafe enjoying a cup of coffee while I really tune in and allow all the sounds around me. Like, what do you actually mean by meditation? And I guess the question is, what counts and what doesn't? Well said. My form of meditation, obviously, with Tibetan Buddhism was the kind of sitting position that most people know and with the eyes closed, that you orientate

from outward to inward. And I think for people who are really busy and overstimulated, and there's so many devices now and so many, you can even strap them around your wrist if you want now, you know, to distract you from being with yourself or being present. So I think that's a good start for people if they're very hyper and they have a hard time, you know, breathing and slowing down. But once you start to feel that connection to yourself, and what does that really mean? It's like you feel like you can feel yourself. That's the best. I actually work with four centers of intelligence, the head, the heart, and the body. The body has an amazing wisdom. And as a trauma therapist over the years, I discovered that more and more. And when you feel that alignment, you start to feel like your awareness is there,

your feelings are there and your body's engaged. You feel that you're connected to your body because I'm working with a lot of disassociation. In fact, it's everywhere. I go on the bus in London or I'm on a plane going to Sydney, wherever I see it. Yeah. because I'm very aware of that stuff. So that connection, when you feel like you're kind of attuned to radio self, can then begin to happen in your dance, yeah? Or it can happen when you're going for a walk with your dog, yeah? Or laying in the grass looking up at the sun, one of my favorite things to do, right, you know, in the sky. So yes, it can happen in movable ways for people who might just be starting out to get that alignment and that sense of alignment, to know thyself and what is that because I've been so outward focused on what he's doing, she's doing,

they're doing work and survival and what actually am I and how do I feel myself? Am I feeling myself now? All of these things for the first attunement might take some time for people. But once you get that, there I am, then yeah, then it can be horse riding or paragliding and so on. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah, it's like you cultivate the core skill and then you can sort of bring it to different domains. That makes a lot of sense to me. and then you can sort of bring it to different domains. That makes a lot of sense to me. Let's finish out sort of the early story here because it really informs a lot of what you've

been talking to you. You've referenced numerous times, you know, your work currently, you know, therapeutically in trauma with a lot of people, literally thousands of people around the world. So let's fill in the gap. You move into your later teens, I guess early 20s, really guided Loursey by a teacher and the teacher dies. And that sends you into a really hard place. Yeah. Yeah. That was a big identity crisis, which I think, of course, looking back, I can see that was okay. But then in my early 20s, I had a big who am I outside of this community, the teacher, everything. And I thought it was going to go on forever.

You know, we were in a kind of conscious community and it was not even a thought that it wouldn't. And I decided to take a complete contrast decision to go from an ashram in India and live in LA for what ended up being for five years. And I didn't even shave my legs. I didn't even know about beautician things. We were just living in a way that there was no criteria in order to be worthy of love, which was quite something for me growing up because I really needed that messaging. But what I did is when I got to LA, I really had convinced myself now that in a way the rug felt like it was pulled out from under me, everything had finished seemingly. I tried so hard to be like the people in that city. Let's say what we used to refer to, and you

would anytime you're living in a community, it is the world outside. I tried really hard. I got the bank account, the credit card, and the jobs. I went to school, but I also discovered stress for the first time. I never knew what stress was. I went in every direction, so I discovered drugs and alcohol as a way to cope. And it was really, I just completely abandoned meditation because I didn't want to be spiritual. I didn't want to be seen as a hippie kid. I wanted to be normal. And I wanted to be like, you know, all the yous I saw out there in the world, you know? And I failed because even though I made all the money and I got the house I failed because even though I made all the money and I got the house and the big bank account, I got with it loneliness and a lot of isolation and depression. It hit me really strong.

I didn't even know how I got there, but that's how I got there. At the time, I was like, how am I depressed? So I had basically gotten to a point where I disconnected so much from myself. The self that I had been calling home, the authentic self, I had done everything to be something else in order to fit in. So I did classic and I got the money and it didn't hit the spot. And I could prove to myself I could succeed, but it didn't create anything for me other than a complete opposite, which was such a painful disconnect of who I was. Which was now looking back, Jonathan, I can say a really good thing that happened because Now looking back, Jonathan, I can say a really good thing that happened because I hold people today in that isolation, in that depression, and in their loneliness and supporting them to come out. CB How much do you think the fact that

you had the prior experience of how you could feel, how you could look at your life, how you could center something different. How much of your ability to move out of this period of isolation, loneliness, depression, do you think was informed by the fact that you had already experienced and knew there was a different way of being and that you believed that there was a different mode that you could move into? Whereas I think so many other people have actually never experienced that and questioned whether it exists or it's possible. Hmm. Yeah, I've seen, right? I knew it. And I have to say that some shame came with it because I was like, wow, Rupes, come on. How did you get here? And the keep trusting voice stayed with me. He got this, everything is going to be okay. And when I did come out the other side of that, I resisted for some time wanting to come into this work because I'd been raised in it. And

I realized then it was how am I going to bridge these two worlds, what I know and what I've experienced and what I see around me. And that became my life journey. But yes, I was fortunate because I came back to my community, still existed even though the teacher was gone. And I was fortunate that I had a lot of tools and awareness in how to come out of that. And that's what helped me to adopt the many different things that I do today. CB So it wasn't like you were starting over. It was more like you were starting over. It was more like you were returning to so much of what you had already known, reconnecting

with it and then expanding your set of practices and tools beyond that as you decide, okay, so now I'm reconnecting, I'm remembering. And also remembering the experience that you've just been through. And it sounds like there was then a second switch that got flipped that said, I'm not the only one who's navigated moments like this. Like literally the world is filled with suffering people. And it sounds like there was something inside of you

that said, I feel called to turn my experience, my skills, my practices out to the world to help others. Yeah, exactly. And it was, even though I met it with resistance in the beginning, because I was like, wow, that means I'm going to devote my life to this. But intuitively I already knew it was already happening. But I had done so well in the dot com when I was trying to be something else. And then the moment I started remembering myself again and coming home, it just felt like that part that it just wasn't serving me. But it was so good that I experienced that. So it was a big turning point and a ha moment for me. And I have to be honest that I didn't

know how well I would be received because I was quite out there in my languaging. And some of the things I was saying back then is now okay, now we can talk about it. But I came from a very progressive mind thinking, and I'd already done so much inner work over the decade. So I had to adjust my languaging if I'm sitting in front of a parent or a CEO or whoever I was sitting in front of. And I couldn't go into this big kind of talk. I really had to match people where they were at. And that was my next kind of steps. And how do I meet people where they're at so that they feel safe to go another step

outside of their comfort zone and to really start to look at what's happening for them, to get their trust. I feel like getting people's trust is a huge issue these days. Yeah. It's almost like the opening stance is mistrust and to assume untoward motive, to assume opposites and divergence and conflict. Yeah, it's an interesting moment when it comes to

being able to cultivate trust or rekindle trust and not just trust in others, also in ourselves. I wonder if you see this in the work that you do, that there's so much mistrust in your own sense of identity and beliefs and values and understanding what is or is not right and right for you. You know, I had moments really losing myself out there in the world of observing myself through the others. And the moment I lose myself in that, it's so painful that I have to really bring myself back into landing in that kind of belly of trust inside myself because it's such a painful separation when I'm not there. I say that because just as you said, trust is such a big one. And we have so many wounds around trust because of our upbringing and because of where we were rejected or lied to or gossiping or all sorts of things. And then we have it in the climate today,

and I'm going to be very delicate here, but it is just in the world and the collective. There's so much lack of trust. And I know that the moment people work into my, whether it's my facilitators training or a retreat or whatever, I know that the first thing I need to establish with them is some form of trust because I can see the hypervigilance in people, I can see the body language in the non-verbal, I can feel it in the tone, I can hear it in their questions. And this centers of intelligence. Remember, I work with four, so the three, one, two, and three. This one right here allows that vulnerability. And now people are talking about vulnerability- Just for those listening, by the way, that

you're referencing the heart. The heart, sorry. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Head, heart, and body center. And they all have their wisdoms. And the heart center is for me the area where of course we have our feelings and it allows for vulnerability. And vulnerability has now really become more and more spoken about and recognized as a strength, which I'm really happy for by the way. That vulnerability also helps me as a facilitator supporting others in being very honest in who I am from the very beginning when people come into the space. And I noticed that if I really allow myself to be vulnerable and I really stay grounded on the ground and how I meet people and invite people into the space and share who I am and a part of myself where I can be vulnerable,

then it softens that. And I give very little for people to push against because I'm not in there to kind of push at people. That's not my approach, let's say. I know other people have different approaches, of course, with respect. I say that because I know that the trauma that so many people carry has created mistrust, myself included. Yeah. So it's such an instrumental thing, this word, trust. It's such a big one and it's my mantra. Yeah, it's huge. I love the phrasing you used. You said, how do I land in the belly of my trust? And I think that's something we're all struggling with. But the notion of, well, maybe the first step is, can I myself just for a hot minute be a little bit more vulnerable? Not saying you have to just completely open the kimono and bury your soul to anyone and

anyone who walks by, but can I just dabble in it at least a little bit? Can I run a little experiment with somebody who I feel safe with maybe already and see how it goes and maybe then add to that and add to that and add to that? The moment you start to share your vulnerability with me, Jonathan, I can feel you. And the moment I can feel you, it softens something. And then I become feelable, you become feelable. And we're not now just functioning from head, which can be where we start to go into the strategy or the worry or the doubt or whatever. And then it becomes palpable. So I just wanted to name that for those out there. When you feel somebody, it just changes that

chemistry definitely. CB So I agree. And we'll be right it just changes that chemistry, definitely. So agree. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. So you've referenced these four centers a number of times, but you've only named three. So the head, the heart, and the body. The fourth being. LR. The fourth center which I work with a lot is the unknown and the intelligence of the unknown. And it's the area that I'm aware that when I look back at Little Rupta growing up, how many times she jumped into that unknown, whether it was one commune, whether it was the Tibetan monastery, whether it was jumping into LA of all the places, you know, just that unknown and that willingness to go there. And now it shows up in my life. Of

course, it's different in different ways. But I noticed that the biggest magic that happens when I'm working with individuals or groups of people happens in that center of the unknown is the biggest transformation. Because even if I have an idea of where I need to take you, let's say I'm supporting you in something, the unknown, I take a step back and something much bigger comes in. And in that journey itself, even if you're saying, no, Rukta, I need to go to this mountain top. Yeah, that's the goal. And I say, okay, but the experience along the way becomes this kind of revelation of many unknowns. And I know that when I'm training a lot of facilitators, they get scared of the unknown because the need to know is so strong and the need to be in control is connected to the need

to feel safe, you know, and it shows up in many different ways. So the more we create a space for the unknown, the more actually relaxation comes. And I often say to people, your ability to relax in life is in direct proportion to your ability to trust. So I was just like, ah, and to trust in the unknown is scary for some people, especially in their lives, but also as they work with individuals. But it's so powerful, and it informs. Yeah, and it's the thing that we run from more than I think anything else in life. You know, I'm a true believer in that, you know,

possibility and uncertainty are two sides of the same coin. You literally cannot have one without the other. And we're constantly striving for possibilities in our lives while simultaneously constantly striving to try and lock down as much of our lives as we possibly can. It's like you can't actually do both together. Everything that is truly new and alive came from us stepping into the void and trusting, hoping that something new and interesting would come from it. Maybe it's a relationship, maybe it's a job,

maybe it's a gift or skill, whatever it may be, just a momentary experience. If we stay in the land of the known, we may feel more comfortable for a hot minute, but then complacency and boredom and malaise, like all these things start to define our lives. And then we complain about the feeling that it gives us, but we refuse to ever let go of this almost maniacal questing for certainty and security. What's your take on what's underneath this? Underneath the need to know, you mean? Yeah, the constant striving to… It's almost like we revert to a mean of the known. It's like we're on a rubber band, and one side of the rubber band

is nailed to this thing called the known. And every time we start to move too far away from it, there's a tension that builds and eventually it snaps us back to it. And like we never realized that we had a pair of scissors in our pocket where we could just cut the rubber band. Yeah. I think because of conditioning growing up and especially, and I know it's delicate to say, I mean religion has been such a strong support for so many people because it's created faith, it's created hope, it's created prayer, it's so beautiful. And I can say from my own experience in it as well. And it can also create conditioning in how you have to be. Guilt is a big one, by the way. So if I step out of the box and I let myself be free

and liberated or wild and passionate, not okay. So we conform, but like I said before, we split off from those joyous parts. When a kid is young, it's wild and free. It's running around two years old in a sandbox with other kids and it doesn't yet know how to be in the construct of how it needs to be. But then we were told we're too much, pipe down, slow down, calm down. And then by doing so, we kind of conform and then we get this, it's like almost unspoken contracts in how we have to be in order to fit in. And by splitting off from these areas of our lives, they become more unknown to us. And this other kind of identity and how we think we should be becomes the comfort zone, the safe zone.

You're allowed to be here and then you're a good girl and then you're a good boy. Then you're approved of. Then you're worthy of love or then you're going to get approval. And I want to say that I see this a lot, Jonathan, in how I'm working with people's constructs. But what if I really step out of that box and I step out of that comfort zone, then what? They're scared because it's unknown to them. And the other thing they're scared of is because if I step out of it and I look back at my

life and how I've set it up, what if I don't fit anymore? And it's really scary for people to do growth work because they're scared they'll rock the boat. So this need to feel safe is so strong, but it's under the guise of all these constructs, but it splits them off from their passion and their aliveness. By the way, another big one is how people feel numb. They feel numb because they don't go to feelings. Yeah, that numbness is now getting bigger and bigger in the world. It's amazing. Yeah, that last point about the way that we often,

we build a life around a sense of known and comfort, and then we become a part of a community. We find a sense of belonging with those who have built the same kind of life around the same set of lenses and assumptions. And we all kind of live, and we all make similar decisions. So there is a sense of safety in that community of belonging.

Okay, so we're all similar in a lot of ways. We see the world the same way. And even when you wake up to this notion that I'm actually pretty unhappy, and maybe there is a different way, the idea of leaving the current, like the status quo behind, it's not just hindered by our own fear of like how we might evolve,

but that means we're gonna have to leave the safety and the comfort and the sense of belonging in that community, even if it wasn't a beloved community, but it was literally just a community of convenience. And it gets back to trust, right? Because then we have to trust that there will be others who are similar inclined and see the world similar to us. And there will be others that will invite us into, and we can step into or form our own new sense of community. And also, like we talked about earlier, that if we do the work to cultivate this sense of belonging within and among just to ourselves first, it makes sense this would become less of an issue.

Does that make sense? get scared and they go, if I come to your retreat, I'm so scared what will happen next and how do I adjust? And I go, can you imagine that this new kind of tuning fork comes in and now you're aligned to yourself, WWW, kind of what brings you peace and harmony, or passion and aliveness. And now that you really stay true to them, honest to your authentic self, now imagine that you now start to attract and get because you know you want to attract people who are aligned to that. And of course, it changes your worldview and it changes kind of who you interact with and these old kind of patterns that you might be seeing in relating, whether it's with friends, loved ones, and you realize they no longer serve you if you end up being a pleaser or disempowering yourself for connection and love and making yourself small. And you realize, wait, I don't know how many more

years I have on this planet. I want to align to my truth, even if it means I give myself more permission to be here and have space and have a voice and that I matter, and I want to align to my truth even if it means I give myself more permission to be here and have space and have a voice and that I matter and I want to align to that, you're absolutely right. Then people will start attracting those people that are in resonance to that. And yes, you might be end up letting go of some people who are not able to see you in that new light. I wonder if one of the thoughts that goes through people's heads when they're even thinking about this is how long will I have to stay in the wilderness?

Like tell me when those new people are going to come, tell me when I'll be able to breathe again, tell me when I'll feel held again. But I wonder if also, like so much of the work that you do I know is in community. Yes, you work individually with people, but also you do a lot of community-based things. I wonder if in your mind part of the quote benefit of doing that is that you're already doing the work of bringing together that next beloved community that people can step into so their

time in the wilderness becomes shortened dramatically and maybe that makes it feel more accessible. Yeah, exactly. And is it okay if I say the name of what I... It's actually called deep dive retreat. So deep dive, it already implies the invitation that we're going to dive deep, which for me now in my mid-50s, it's so important that quality time is really important to me. So now the invitation is, okay, anyone who wants to come to this, we're going to dive deep. But implicit in that is it's opening us up to deep conversations, deep way of connecting, deep way of meeting ourselves, and whatever you want to call something much bigger. And yes, it becomes a playground where people can go, oh, wow,

I didn't know this existed. Now we can really talk and pass the weather and pass the sports and politics and so on. And yes, it then becomes a community. And I've probably flown to another country by then, but there's a connection that's happened with those people and it's so beautiful. And each year I do, of course, fly back and forth and I get to see that community grow. And it's community that in many ways saved me. It's really what is for sure a big part of who I am. Yeah. That makes so much sense. We did, for five really amazing years, we actually ran an adult summer camp for four days at the end of every summer.

We would sweep in, take over a kids sleep away camp, you know, 168 acre camp out in the mountains, and you know, 400 plus people would come in trains, planes, and automobiles from around the world to sleep communally in kids bunks. It doesn't do a bunk and stuff like this. And we had all sorts of programming and workshops and lectures. But we realized really quickly in the first year, we're like, oh, what this is about is not all the sort of like formal learning or curriculum or workshops.

This is about creating a container where people from the outside look at this and say, like, I think people like me might be there and maybe it's not so easy to find those people in my current circumstance. And they would come and they would find those people. And we'd realize really quickly, like, this is about creating the container that allows them to connect to each other. There's almost no greater work that we could have done.

And it was nice that we offered all these different activities to participate in and let people sign up for stuff and have fun. But at the end of the day, the grace in that experience was when we would hear somebody talking about how they were flying on the grass with three people from different parts of the world that they'd never met before at three in the morning, looking at the moon, talking about life. Like, that's it. Absolutely, absolutely. Because over in the end of the day, that's, you know, it's not how much money you have

in the bank, it's what you feel in your heart and the connections you make. I know that I'm speaking to a lot of people today that I still want to have the big money in the bank. And I said, in pursuit of that big money in the bank, please, please remember to include your heart so that when you have all that money in the bank, you're not disconnected from it. Otherwise, you don't see the joy of your children and the joy of the partner and you can't feel it. You've just been a workaholic for so long trying to achieve, achieve, achieve. And actually it comes back to simple things, camping, laying in the

grass, being with friends. And that's the most fulfilling and meaningful connections we get. CB Love it. It feels like a good place for us to come full circle in our conversation as well. So in this container of Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? DG. For me, for sure, the connection is a big one. And we're on the actual word. So connection to myself, feeling that I'm okay, that self-dialogue and everything's going to be okay. Keep trusting. Rukta, you've got this. You're safe. The connection with others that I allow people in, that I allow myself to trust, that I allow, and connection for me with natural world as well as the mystery. Let's call it the mystery because I feel like we're held by something much bigger.

And for me, that's the good life. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, before you leave, if you love this episode, say you'll also love the conversation we had with Bessel van der Kolk about healing trauma through the body. You'll find a link to that episode in the show notes. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers, Lindsay Fox and me, Jonathan Fields. Editing help by Alejandro Ramirez

and Troy Young. Christopher Carter crafted our theme music and of course if you haven't already done so please go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app or on YouTube too. If you found this conversation interesting or valuable and inspiring, chances are you did because you're still listening here. Do me a personal favor, a second favor, share it with just one person. If you want to share it with more, that's awesome too, but just one person even. Then invite them to talk with you about what you've both discovered, to reconnect and explore ideas that really matter. Because that's how we all come alive together.

Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project.