Good Life Project - How to Be Creative | Spotlight Convo

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

As we head into the final month of the year, which for many has been a year of re-emergence and reimagining, there’s never been a more important time to reconnect with our own inner creativity. And, by the way, this is even more important if you’re someone who, maybe, has never even considered themselves all that creative, or in any way skilled at it. But, now, it’s not just about our work or hobbies or passions, we need to find new ways to turn our creative impulse loose on life, itself. That process of reimagining, of stepping into a place of possibility, takes a blend of inspiration, action-taking and wisdom from those who’ve been immersing themselves in the world of creativity for years. This is why we’re excited to bring you a power compilation collective today that focuses in on igniting creativity in all parts of work, play, relationships, and life. We’ve brought together 4 incredible voices, Lisa Congdon, James Victore, Yrsa Daley-Ward, and Mike Han. Each comes from wildly different backgrounds, experiences, and challenges, and each also finds ways, often ways no one else saw, to center creativity in their work and also explore life as the ultimate creative canvas. You can find Lisa at: Website | Instagram | The Lisa Congdon SessionsYou can find James at: Website | InstagramYou can find Yrsa at: Website | InstagramYou can find Mike at: Website | InstagramIf you LOVED this episode be sure to check out the full-length episodes of these conversations we had with Lisa, James, Yrsa, & Mike. Check out our offerings & partners: My New Book SparkedMy New Podcast SPARKEDVisit Our Sponsor Page For Great Resources & Discount CodesPeloton Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

To live a good life is to relax and accept who you are and relax and accept your creativity because it's put there for a purpose. And if you can learn to listen to it, it's a great guide. It will serve you well. We're all born wildly creative. Some of us just forgot. So as we head into the final month of the year, which for many has been a year of reemergence and reimagining, there's never been a more important time to really reconnect with our own creativity. And by the way, this is even more important if you're somebody who maybe has never even considered themselves all that creative or feeling like you're skilled at creativity.

But now it's not just about work or hobbies or passions. We need to find new ways to turn our creative impulse loose on life itself. And that process of reimagining, of stepping into a place of possibility, takes a blend of inspiration, of action-taking, and in no small part, wisdom from those who have been immersing themselves in the world of creativity for years, which is why I'm so excited to bring you our power compilation today on creativity that really focuses on igniting creativity in all parts of work and life and relationships and play.

We've brought together four incredible voices, Lisa Congdon, James Victoria, Yorsa Daly Ward, and Mike Hahn, each coming from a wildly different background, experience, and different challenges, and each also finding ways, often ways that no one else saw, to center creativity in their work and also explore life as the ultimate creative canvas. So excited to share this with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman.

I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot.

The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X.

Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. And we are starting off our creativity deep dive with my friend, illustrator and fine artist and author, Lisa Congdon. So I've known Lisa for maybe a dozen years now. And for that entire time, she has been in this state of perpetual creative transformation. Lisa's best known, I think, for her vivid graphic drawings and illustrations and patterns and lettering. Her work appears in private collections, merchandise, textiles, apparel, and a wide

array of collaborations with clients around the world, including Method, Target, Comme des Garcons, Crate & Peril, Facebook, MoMA, REI, Harvard, and so many others. She's the author of many books, including Art, The Essential Guide to Building Your Career as an Artist, Find Your Artistic Voice, The Essential Guide to Working, Your Creative Magic, and You Will Leave a Trail of Stars, Inspiration for Blazing Your Own Path, and so many others. at Pacific Northwest College of Art. She lives in Portland and is also a passionate cyclist and racer. And you may even wonder what if anything that has to do with creativity, the creative life and art. And as you may hear, the answer is everything.

Here's Lisa. You have become, is obsessed the right word with cycling? Yes. So as we're sitting here, hanging out, having this conversation, you're fresh off of this intense ride up to Crater Lake. It's like 15,000 feet of climbing, crazy inclement weather that knocked out most of the group of people that you were riding with. And yet you, among one of two sole survivors on the final day.

And I think shortly after this, you're doing the gravel grinder, which is like 30,000 feet of climbing. That's next week. One of my curiosities is why? What is the call? What is the pull for you behind this? Because it's not just, oh, I like cycling. This is different. It is. I spent many years, as you know, building my business and my career and growing as an artist and sort of putting my head down. And all of that was really cerebral work. I mean, there is a certain spiritual aspect to creativity, for sure. And creativity requires a certain amount of downtime and what we scientists call diffuse thinking state, right? Where you're not actually doing any focused work. And I try really hard to have those moments in my life.

But what cycling does for me is it gets me in my body. So much of my work and time is very cerebral. Or if I'm relaxing, I'm maybe doing that in a sedentary way. And I discovered, I mean, I've been a cyclist since 1999, 98, somewhere in there on and off, but I got really into it in the last year and a half, like in a way that I haven't before, because I found that it got me out of my head and into my body in a way that made me feel alive without all of the sort of swirling thoughts of, you know, how much money am I making this month? Or, oh gosh, I got to finish that deadline for the client. I really hope they liked what I turned in or, oh my gosh, I have, you know, five different projects to work on. It's not that those thoughts don't occur to me while I'm

riding, but when you're on a bike, you have to focus on the road, especially gravel riding. If you do not focus on what is in front of you and how your body feels, you will crash. And so cycling is this way for me to get out of that place that I'm in a lot around work and really focus on my body and just being present in the moment. And it does that for me in a way that nothing else does. So I think that's what it is for me. It makes me feel really alive in a way that, of course, making art makes me feel alive too, but it's just a very different way of activating my brain and my body. And it's such a great juxtaposition to how I spend most of my time. At the same time, I feel like it also requires a lot of the same things of me. It requires an enormous amount of discipline and getting up and going and doing stuff that

often feels overwhelming or hard. But then once I'm in it, it brings me a lot of joy. Yeah. That resonates with me on so many different levels. It's funny because as you're speaking, I'm missing, for a huge part of my life, since I was a kid, I was a cyclist. First as a road cyclist, distance, and then for a lot of years, focusing intensely on mountain biking. And I would always say that my meditation was moving and I would ride really fast and I love riding in trees. And like you said, if you lose focus for even a second, there's a really good chance you were doing in that very moment go, or else you were no longer in it. And then you add sort of like the moving meditation of the rhythm of cycling and the varying intensity of like, sometimes you're just flying and cruising downhill, and then it gets really hard again. There are some really interesting parallels with the creative process. It's true. I wrote this book many years ago called The Joy of Swimming. And I, in my opening essay, I talked a little bit about

the parallels between, you know, the discipline of athletic endeavors and the discipline of, you know, creativity or growing, finding your voice or growing as an artist. And I think, you know, it's so funny because we think so often of creative people as being, you know, these sort of nerdy folks who are not athletic. And I think while that's true for a way of, I don't know, leaning into this other part of their existence than creativity, but uses also the same muscles in some way. And I thought that I was, you know, I actually never used to talk about my athletic endeavors on my social media. And it's become such a big part of my life that it's

almost like every fourth or fifth Instagram post is about cycling because it's become so important to me. And for a while I was like, well, I'm going to lose followers because people aren't necessarily interested in that. And then I'm like, who cares? This is a big part of who I am. And it's so important to me and the rest of my artistic practice. Like I feel like they feed each other in this really amazing way. And so I'm really kind of like coming out of the closet as a like obsessive athlete. I love that. And I'm 53 years old. So, you know, I mean, I think to, you know, a lot of people that's still young and I definitely feel young and kind of vibrant and healthy, but a lot of women in particular think like, oh, by the time I'm 50,

if I haven't tried something, what would be the point, especially in athletic endeavor? And so for me to say, I'm going to try these really hard things and I'm going to train, I'm going to do all this stuff in my 53-year-old body, which by the way, is not even the same as my 47-year-old body, just like in the last six years, I feel like is a way for me to hopefully inspire other people to not necessarily take up cycling, but to understand that it's never too late to try that thing that you'd always dreamed about. Like I find myself writing and thinking, I used to watch people do what I'm doing now and wish it was me. And I didn't know or have the confidence or whatever that magic formula was to actually do the thing that I always wanted to do. I was that person who was like,

oh man, look at that woman doing that, or I want to do that. But then I didn't sort of know how. And just in the last few years, I've really started to say, well, why not me? Why not me? And now I'm actually doing all of those things that I wished I could do or wanted to do, but didn't quite know how to get started. And that feels really good. Like I'm living my life. I'm not wishing that I did something, I'm doing it. And I know that takes a certain amount of privilege and financial stability and all of that. I want to acknowledge that. But at the same time, that kind of like, I'm actually doing the thing that I always dreamed of doing, but didn't know how to do until now. And sometimes I think it takes until you're in your fifties to sort of get to that place where you have the confidence to just go for it. Because what do you have to lose? I think self-knowledge is like, or trying to understand and love yourself is really just the, it's like

the gateway to everything. Yeah. It's so great. It was really interesting because on the one hand, I remember you writing magic. Effectively, you're saying magic requires discipline. And at the same time, there's another passage where you share that it's also really important to loosen your grip, to hold things lightly. So it's this idea that if we aspire to create magic in some way, shape, or form, whether it's in our life, in our work, almost counterintuitively, you don't just wait for it to spontaneously combust into a magical moment or creative expression. It requires constraint and effort and discipline. But at the same time, the entire time that you're devoting yourself in a disciplined

way, you've got to hold everything lightly and accept the fact that there may be no there there. Or that even if there is the there there, which none of us know until we get there or don't get there, that there are going to be failures and just vast uncomfortable feelings. And there's also a lot in the book about getting comfortable being uncomfortable. Because I think people imagine, take the creative process, for example, or even the process of becoming a fast cyclist. I think people imagine that in their fantasy mind, that they could just close their eyes and imagine these, you know, being really good at either of these things just sort of happens or that some people are born with like natural abilities.

But for most people, even people who are born with natural abilities, there's a lot of showing up that has to occur, but it's also extremely uncomfortable because getting good at anything requires, you know, screwing up and messes and failing. And that's how we learn. And a lot of people don't want to feel the messiness. They don't want to feel uncomfortable.

So they don't, they don't do it. That's why I, for years and years, I wanted to be the cyclist that I am today, but I didn't want to feel the discomfort of training or not being as fast as other people or whatever. And eventually I was like, screw it. I'm going to do it anyway. And it actually wasn't as bad as I thought, but I'm super intrigued by this idea of like holding on to a vision, having a vision, working toward that vision, but also holding that vision with a certain amount of detachment. And that is freaking hard. It's kind of brutal. I've been working on that for a lot of decades now. I feel like I'm maybe a millimeter closer to it. Right. In Buddhism, they talk about the fact that attachment is the root

of suffering, right? If we get too attached to the idea of something or something being a certain way, that that's actually what causes the pain that we experience in life. And so the antidote to that is like, is holding things, you know, trying things, experimenting, going for things, but also like understanding that, you know, your happiness doesn't depend on achieving that thing. It depends on being present in the process, right. Of life, regardless of what the outcome is. And yeah, that is, uh, yeah, that is hard work. Yeah, it's worse said than done. I've been meditating a whole lot of years trying to get there. And it makes complete logical sense to me.

But the actual manifestation of that in your life is a whole different thing. It's funny. I was reflecting recently on a conversation that I had years back with Milton Glaser, where he said something that really stayed with me that actually is really resonating what I think about your work right now, which is that the impulse to make is one thing. The impulse to create beauty is a related thing, but it's not the same. And when I look at the work that you've been creating, you know, like over the last 10, 15 years now, I feel like there was an early impulse to create beauty that has now fused with this emerging impulse and emerging over a season of years now to create value in addition to beauty. That feels intentional to me. Thank you for saying that. Actually, that's such a nice, yeah, I actually have a new

product, I guess is the right word, coming out in September, which is a values deck, like a sorting exercise. You've probably, you exercise. A lot of people have done them, but my friend Andrea and I, it's called the Live Your Values deck. And it's a way for people to sort their values and then become more aligned with their values. And I have been doing a lot of that kind of work in my life and in my business over the last five years. And so it made natural sense for me to do that. And I think one of the offshoots of doing that work is that I have become more focused on what value am I giving versus not that making beautiful things isn't valuable. People need beautiful things. And I do still, I think, make some beautiful things, but my primary focus is making sure that what I'm putting out into the world has value.

And I think that's also where, you know, a lot of my storytelling came from and I don't know. Yeah. I, I, it's been, it's been a, an interesting journey to get to the place where the main filter for what I put out into the world is, you know, does this thing have value? And, you know, sometimes when I'm working on client jobs, especially for big companies, and I'm just drawing pictures for them to put on their website or whatever, I'm like, um, this feels really weird, but they're paying me a lot of money. So I guess there's value in that. But yeah, it definitely, and I think that's why my audience has grown because I found this group of people who also finds value in what I'm sharing and whether it's about life or about the creative process or about running, you know, a creative business. And then I also have come to the place personally where I actually value my own voice, right? Like it's hard to ink for, for which you wrote the forward many

years ago and I was, you know, three chapters in and I turned it in and my editor said, Lisa, you've got some good information here, but you, you have to have, you have to sound more authoritative. You know, I was a lot of the tone of the book was this worked for me, but it might not work for you. Right. They're like, you know what you're doing, believe it or not. You have experienced success.

So own that and tell your story in a way and share your resources and information in a way that where other people are going to believe you. And it was like the first time anyone said that to me. And I sort of began work that very day, however many years ago that was almost 10 years ago now, just really thinking about like what I know. And, you know, of course trying to exercise humility, but also like exercise this muscle where I'm like, yeah, I do know that. And I, I have value that I can give to the world and not everybody's going to find value in it,

but some people will. And it's in one of my greatest values is service. And that's what I found out by doing this values exercise where you kind of like get your top three values. And one of them is service. And when I did that values exercise, I was like, oh, my art business isn't just about making art. It's not just about putting pretty things into the world. I mean, some of it is, and I get paid to do that and that's fine. But because one of my values is service and giving back, that also has to be part of my

business. So I'm starting a foundation with Emily McDowell and we're going to give grants and mentoring to BIPOC artists who apply to our program. And even in the stuff I write about on my Instagram feed, I really think about it through the lens of value added to the conversation. And that is not something I ever thought about back in the day. I used to work for a nonprofit before I became an artist. And I remember leaving the nonprofit world and being like, oh my God, I'm leaving behind everything that's meaningful to me.

And I'm going to go do this selfish thing, which is like make pretty pictures. And 10 years later, my worlds have collided. I am giving back to the world and making pretty pictures. I get to do both. And it's just pretty pictures, you know, like I get to do both. And it's just like, I feel so lucky that I get to do that. So. I love that. And that feels like a really good place for us to come full circle as well. So it's kind of fun because I think I've asked you this question a number of times now, as I always end every conversation here, but years apart. So I'll ask it again,

in this context, in this container of a good life project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? Now I'm wondering what I've said the three times that you've interviewed me before. That would be an interesting thing to go back and look at. To live a good life is to love yourself and to love all the parts of yourself, even the parts that are damaged or flawed, and to know and acknowledge those parts and to use them to connect with others. Thank you. The Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever,

making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required.

Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him. We need him.

Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. So I love Lisa's expansive take on creativity in life. And next up is James Victoria. So when James was told by a professor in his design program during college that he just didn't have what it took. Instead of arguing with him, he left, then promptly launched and built his own successful design consultancy.

And years later, an accomplished illustrator, designer, and provocateur of the status quo, he returned to that very school, but this time to teach his own perpetually packed class. James has been described as part Darth Vader, part Yoda, part prolific storyteller, designer, provocateur, artist, activist, teacher, a designer and creative thought leader who people look to find clarity and purpose in their life and work. And he's widely known for his impassioned views about design and its place in the world. At the helm of his independently run studio, James makes work that takes a strong position and often toes a line between sacred and profane. And the world has taken notice. His work has been exhibited at the Museum of Modern Art in New York in the permanent collections of Louvre in the Library of Congress. And his client list includes countless industry leaders.

His book, Fect Perfuction, is sort of a manifesto on living a creative, full-contact, and alive life. And more recently, he has been facilitating a new four-day live course called You, the Original, which is a revival of the course that he taught at the School of Visual Arts in New York. Here's James. If I looked at your life right now, where does the James that's sort of like, it's present and creative and progressive and provocative, does that start to show up at a really early age? You know, it's funny.

People ask me about that type of question. And I say, you know what? I was born to do this. I was totally born to do this. You know, the first two lines of my book say, we're all born wildly creative. Some of us just forgot. You know, there were so many signs early on that I should do this.

You know, when I was a kid, one of the more prevalent things that I can remember when I was a kid was that I was called creative. And it wasn't a compliment. It meant I disrupted. It meant I talked out of, yeah, weird. Exactly, weird. And it just, you know, again and again and again and again. And sometimes it was of a benefit. Most of the times it was a target, but I kept on.

And like I said, you know, I went to a, basically a college prep high school run by the Brothers of Christian Instruction. And, you know, I was an alternate for the Air Force Academy and thank God that didn't work out. So I was waiting tables in my hometown and ski patrol on the weekend and, you know, whatever odd jobs I could do. And the chef at the time in this tiny little Italian restaurant, his name was Gary Danko. And he now owns a restaurant named Gary Danko in San Francisco.

It's one of the, you know, three, he's a two-star Michelin restaurant, one of the restaurants you can't get into. And we were sitting at the bar when I was 19, and he just said, Jimmy, go to New York. And I just did. I literally, like literally four days later, got on a bus with $300 and moved to New York. And ended up, I came here to study at the School of Visual Arts. And after about two years, a little over two years at SVA,

an instructor took me aside and said, listen, this field is very competitive. There are a lot of people looking for the same jobs. And he suggested I basically become a CPA or golf pro. He just said, you know, you don't got it. You don't got it. Well, that's encouraging. Yeah, totally.

So I literally, you know, day later, I dropped out of school and I called my dad and I said, hey, so I'm going to drop out of, you know, art school. And he said, but I thought you wanted to, you wanted to be a fancy art teacher and have your name on the door. And I said, oh, no, no, no. No, I'm going to get that. I'm just not going to finish school. And that's exactly what I did.

I think I learned early on that I think the best way that I can phrase it is that, and I felt like this most of my time commercially as a graphic designer, I'm a racehorse and I'm pulling a cart, you know, I want to, I want to, I, there's, there's something in me that wants to fly and I'm, I'm not doing it. I don't know why. And I don't, you know, I never wanted, I don't want that feeling. So it was okay. That was the reason it was totally okay to be asked to leave. Yeah.

It was like, you know what? I think, you know, I think you're right. Right. So it's like you're kind of getting signals the whole time. Oh, yeah. Like something. So that was almost like the straw that brought the candles back at that point. Yeah.

I think my, oh, that was the funny thing is my grades were atrocious. So when I did go to, you know, I'm 20 years old in New York City and I've got it and I'm working full time to afford SBA. I'm making five bucks an hour. You know, I'm buying all the beer I need. What do I need school for? So the funny thing is, was if I hadn't been thrown out of the nest, I don't know what would have happened. So it was okay. Yeah.

You ever think about that? Like if you had actually just stayed that course? I think about those things often because there's a number of times that I've been thrown out of the nest. Sliding doors type of thing. And I'm like, wait, why did I wait so long? You know, because I think if we are really in tune and we're really listening to ourselves and listening to our bodies, everything tells us.

And I think, and this is part of the reason why the book comes out is like, I think we're so resistant to listening to ourselves and so resistant to making the moves in our lives that we feel that we need, that, need that, you know, getting thrown out of the nest or rejection is, is, is, is not as bad as people think. Yeah. What do you think that resistance is about? I mean, on some level it's fear,

but, but fear of what? Oh, totally. Just fear being who you are, being found out as a genius, being found out as, as a creative person. You know, it's like we're all covering it up somehow. Even me, who I'm like, I just want to fly. Come on, come on, come on. Even me, I find when I know when I pull back and when I'm like, really? Do you want to? You know, it's really funny. Even if I'm on stage and I've got some gigs coming up in Barcelona and Dublin with 2,500,

4,000 people. And every once in a while I'm talking and there's this little voice going, you're going to say that out loud in public, really? You sure? You know, you know, you know, you mentioned Milton. I was a book jacket designer, just that's what I was doing. And I really wanted to do albums. I was back when they were still 12 and a quarter, 12 and a quarter. And that was like the best stuff in the world. And you could make them fold out to the larger, you know? So I wanted to do albums and I wanted to do this and I wanted to do that. And I called Milton and I made an appointment and he said, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Book jackets. He said, yeah. He said, yeah, we should do like four or five of those a day in the day. He said, yeah. And if you're not careful, you're going to wake up and five years from now, you're still going to be doing book jackets. And I was like, yeah, and if you're not careful, you're going to wake up and five years from now, you're still going to be doing book checks. And I was like, yeah, so I see. And for me, the break was 1992.

I was, you know, 29. And the Columbus Day was coming up in the city here. And the newspapers were talking about all the celebrations and the parade and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, I knew a little bit about American history, and I knew about the pox and flusted blankets, and I knew about the kind of early controversy then. Now everybody knows about it. And I thought, well, that other side needs to be told.

And, you know, I'm a graphic designer, and I'm kind of, you know, interested in the almost journalistic properties of design, that you can be a journalist as much as a, you know, that you can, that you can put your voice and your opinion into your work. So I made, made a poster,

you know, full size, 24, 36, the same size as all the advertising posters in the city and used my own money and printed 5,000 posters and took them to the, the stage door at Lincoln center at a certain time at night. And that's when the guys, the poster mafia come by.

The wild poster guys. They put them in the back of the van. And I got posters put up all over the city. Used my rent money, which was not a good business plan, but got it done, baby. Got it done. That was like the really, really early form of Instagram. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, dude, I totally wish Instagram was around then, just for a day.

And I made that poster. And then I, you know, I was interested. Like I said, I still had the memories of being 10 and 11 looking at this European stuff. And I sent my, you know, I sent it off to all these European competitions. And I started getting in. I started, you know, winning medals and being alongside these names that I knew about. And that was the whole next thing. It just, there was a level of bravery that that brought me. And I, what I had done is I realized that I had started out as a commercial graphic designer

doing book jackets, but what I found through starting to do social, cultural, political posters was I found my purpose. My purpose was to make graphic design that had an opinion, make graphic design that had a voice that the things that I love and the things that I fear are possibly things that other people love and fear. And it was just a real trip.

And that's what I try to teach other people is once you get a taste of that, you don't want to let go. And that's a good feeling. Once you're like, wow, I can actually, I don't know if I can make a living at this, but people dig it. And that's the first part. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting also, because I think, especially in the design world, the art world, there's this sense that first I need to develop my skill to a point where I'm good enough to go out and get this attention.

And skill is one thing, but the thing that I keep hearing you say is, well, yeah, that matters. And yeah, you did a lot of work and a lot of iterations to develop a certain thing. But at the same time, it was really about understanding what mattered to you and developing the voice underneath that, because all the skill in the world won't make up for not having a distinct voice, not having a point of view. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Somebody wrote me today. I put out something through Instagram and somebody wrote me and said, dude, I can't wait to get your book. And I just want to be as brave as you. And I wrote back and I said, why are you waiting? What are you waiting for? That's, you know, we're waiting. We're waiting for an invitation. Waiting for permission. Waiting for our skills to be That's, you know, we're waiting, waiting for an invitation, waiting for permission,

waiting for our skills to be, oh, you know, I'm getting there. I'm getting there. I've done some, you know, no, baby, just go, just go. You know, we, there is no, there's no secret handshake. There's no entry fee.

You just, well, the entry fee is, yeah, lose your fear. Yeah, you're said and done now. I mean, if it was that easy, we'd all be out there sharing, like, the essence of what's inside of all of us. Yeah, and you get the old, well, if everybody was creative, the world would be anarchy. And I'm like, yeah, I know. It's going to be a little bit crazy.

You listeners need a smile right now. If everybody was like me, oh my God, yeah, we'd be in trouble. I mean, it seems like also for you, you've got an insane level of curiosity. Yeah. I mean, it seems like that's like fuel for you. It seems like you're constantly scanning the world and just raising an eyebrow. Yeah.

I'm always looking to up the ante. Yeah. I'm always looking for, you know, there was a couple, somebody paid me a nice compliment last night at dinner and they said, you know, what they liked about me is that I was the one who was always willing to just change. Just, you know, like, you know, Texas, for example, going to Texas or, you know, change careers.

Stop being a commercial designer and just start doing, you know, more, doing more teaching or doing, you know, all these different things. And, you know, I don't think of it. I don't even think about that. I just do it. I'm like, something's calling. Got to go. You know? And I think that's a, you know, again, that's something that you can practice

and something you can get very good at is just listening to yourself. Yeah. And still, if you zoom the lens out, you know, and you look at your body of work over the last 35, 40 years now, do you see a through line? Yeah. Or some? Yeah, I do.

I do. I do, and I see the same thing now that I saw, you know, in the early days, which was I see an artist searching for his voice, an artist searching for radical new marks on the page that will, you know, stir someone's soul. You know, Robert Frost once wrote that he wanted to write a poem that was barbed. You know, this whole idea of like how it would stick in your heart. I'm like, oh, that's what I want. So when you go back to SVA as a teacher, what do you want to do?

What are you trying to accomplish by going back there? When I went back, like I said, I wanted to be the guy who lit fires. What do you want to do? What are you trying to accomplish by going back there? a Polish designer named Henrik Tomaszewski, who he worked in Warsaw as a teacher in the 50s and 60s and 70s. And he was just – he said, I didn't know how to teach, so I was trying to teach people how to think. So I was using his assignments and I was using my own ideas. And after a couple of years, I realized, oh, oh my god i'm teaching as a third year instructor at the school of visual arts and i'm not teaching graphic design because i'm not teaching form or color or what it looks like i decided my students know i didn't care what it looked like i cared what it said and they knew that in a crit situation if there was a piece on the wall

and maybe it had some stones on it with some words you know words on the stone or something and and the all the students know that who's ever that was and like say we're going to see anna okay anna tell us about it and she says well when i was a kid they would everybody knew right there was just like going to be gold when i was a kid my father took me to the beach every summer we never even went to the water we just walked up and down the beach and we collected rocks and here's why and i'm just like, oh, my God, you got me. You got me. That's awesome.

You know, and what would happen is the students would have a revolt eventually. And they'd say, but I know we're doing this thing and we're trying to tell our own stories and we're trying to, you know, put our voice and our opinion into our work. But they said, but if it's so particular to me, how is it going to have meaning to other people? And I'd say, you know, what matters to you matters to other people. In the particular lies the universal. You know, the more honest a filmmaker can be in divulging the truth about the story,

you know, the more memorable the film is going to be, the more meaning it's going to have. And that's just how it works. You know, in any kind of storytelling, those are the good stories where we see ourselves in it. It could be a story about a dog who dies and you'll be crying like a baby.

You don't even have a dog, but you understand that idea of loss, you know? Yeah. I mean, it's like I once heard, I think it was Mary Carr who said a great memoir. You know, it's not what happened to the memoir. It's not what happened to the writer. It's how what happened to the writer changed them. And it's like we can all transfer into a moment that changes us in some way, shape, or form.

Sounds like you went back to be the teacher you didn't have when you were at SVA. Correct. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally did. And I was super lucky that the chairman, Richard Wild, allowed me to. And SVA basically stayed off my back and let me do my thing and knew that my class was popular. And, you know, I think, you know, the flip side of this, Jonathan, is that I would tell my students, listen, I'm doing you a disservice.

Because when you leave here, you're going to have debt and the school would like you to pay off your debt or pay off your family, your, your parents debt. And I say, I don't care about that. Somehow debt gets paid off. Student loans get paid off somehow. And how you, you know, I would also run a class on money and say, just remember this stuff. But I'd say most people, when they leave school, they get all hopped up on creativity and they take a job. And in order to pay off their debt, they choose slavery and not creativity. So why don't you, when you get out of here, why don't you take a chance and tell the

world that you believe in yourself and take, take a chance on getting paid for your creativity, getting paid for why you were here in the first place, instead of just taking a job. And then when the wind blows, you take another job and the wind blows, you take another job. You know what I mean? Just like go through this meaningless process. You know, take a chance and put your creativity to a test. What was the reaction when you said that? Oh, you know, then they're like, yeah, yeah. It is.

Graduation day. You know, I am Spartacus. But it's funny because they would come to me and they'd say, I, Dave, I got this awesome job at this internet startup and they're going to pay me $60,000 out the gate. And I said, that's awesome. And I said, and you're going to come see me in a year. And they would. They'd come see me in a year and they're like, I hate my job, but I bought an apartment, so now I'm stuck. Yeah, that is where we lock ourselves in.

Yeah, yeah. The golden handcuffs, right? Yeah. A couple of years down the the road MoMA calls you up more than a couple years actually for those who don't know MoMA, Museum of Modern Art New York City this legendary institution

says hey, we want you here we want to put your pictures up in this space it is like what did that mean to you when they said that to you? Yeah, you know, it was funny because they contacted me and they said, you know, we want, you know, 10 pieces for our permanent collection. And they said, oh, and we're redesigning the third floor and we're going to have, you know, we would like to put five of them up,

you know, as an exhibition. And I'm like, oh, a small James Victoria show at the Museum of Modern Art. That would be nice. Yeah, it was groovy, you know, and it's funny, but the way I tell it to people now, they're like, when they bring it up. And now I've got like my get in free card and everything my lifelong membership and all that kind of stuff you know well all that kind of stuff that's it that's it that's all I have and people are like wow that must be

amazing I said yeah you know the other day I was going down into the subway and I didn't have any money on my card so I just jumped the turnstile and these two cops come up to me and I said whoa whoa guys guys it's cool I'm in the MoMA and everybody's like. I'm in the MoMA. And everybody's like, really? I'm like, no.

It just, it doesn't mean anything. I mean, you know, it's cool. It's another level of bravery that it gives me. But yeah, it doesn't buy me a sandwich or. That's not why you do it. Yeah, it's not. It's or – That's not why you do it. Yeah, it's not. It's nice. It's not why I do it.

And you know that little side story where they called me and we were having a conversation and I said, oh, is there a gala event that I may attend with my wife? And they said, no, we don't do that. I said, is there a trophy? Do I get like a plaque that says James Victoria? They said, no, we don't do that. I said, do, is there a trophy? Do I get like a plaque that says James Victoria? They said, no, we don't do that. I said, well, is there a, is there a letter? Do I get an official letter with like a gold emblem of the moment? They said, no, we don't do that. And I said, well, could you do it for my mom? Cause she'd really appreciate that. And I shit you not, 10 days later in the mail, dear James Victoria's mom, a letter. It was so great.

That's better than everything else. So great. So better than everything. Forget the accolades. Forget I'm in the moment. It's like that letter is everything. And then I immediately sat down and made a new thing to talk about, which is ask for more. Ask for what you want.

If you want a pony, ask for a unicorn. Ask for what you want. If you want a pony, ask for a unicorn. Ask for what you want. It works. I mean, so much of this conversation, I feel like, is about being uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, you know, it's funny because in the back of my mind, I've got, again, the little voices in the back of my mind.

I'm sitting here today talking to Jonathan Fields on the Good Life Project. And yeah, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking about you're asking me these questions and bringing me back to these places. And I'm like, ooh, yeah, that was uncomfortable. But it was where I needed to be. Where I needed to be. But you put yourself in this position. Sure. You constantly, almost like when you didn't feel it, you did what you needed to do to But you put yourself in this position. Sure. Consciously. It's almost like when you didn't feel it,

you did what you needed to do to put yourself back in that space. And that's where the magic happens. And that's where the fear happens. And that's where it all happens. And it's also a level of commitment. You're telling the universe that you're going to do this. I'm all in.

Again, how much do you want it? How much do you want it? It's always a test. So books. You've written a few in your new one, Effect of Perfection. Why this book and why now? Why now is because it's the book I need. It's like, so when I was at SVA and I was going through all these, you know,

students would come in and they would be like, oh, I'm so angry. Somebody bumped me on the train and I'd say, okay, listen. You have a choice of how you react to that. And out of all the choices, you chose that one. You chose to like ruin your own day because – so like all these lessons were things that I started using when I would speak or when I would, you know, teach workshops and stuff. And I was like, you know what? These have been great tools for me. I am having and have had a great, you know, creative life and I need to share them. You know, my career calling right now is less of a commercial designer,

but I want to be of service to others. I, um, recently I, I said something, um, out loud that I didn't know I said out loud, which was kind of awesome. And I said, I want to be Moses for creative people. I want to set them free. I just got this image of you, like in like road, this little tablet square, like bad-ass drawings.

Yeah. You know, being creative is not easy. Leading a creative life is not easy. And I would like to be of service. I would like to help people understand their creativity, understand the power of their voice, understand that their life is basically that arc of the journey of the hero, the Joseph Campbell thing. Because the book goes from, you know, finding your voice all the way through to having a purpose, which is the best thing. You know, when you have a purpose, then you can get out of bed in the morning and,

you know, get shit done at five o'clock or four 30, you know? So I've got, I've got side note. I've gotten so good that it's four 30 now, by the way, just, you know,

I don't want to, I don't want to, you know, up the ante for anybody, but just, uh, you know, if you want to keep up being that Moses,

your purpose is, uh, yeah. Yeah. And I enjoy it. I love it. I love it. Um,

you know, when I was at SVA, when I was teaching there, the students would always say, why is it that you say the opposite of all the other instructors? And I didn't really have a good answer. And I don't know if I still have a good answer, but I would say, and they're way over here. You've got to find your way. You're somewhere in there. You might be closer to that. You might be closer to this. But, you know, just learn from everybody. Yeah. Find what resonates with you. Yeah, yeah. You know, and even, you know, always, always learn from everybody and learn from every situation.

Just always be a student. Yeah, and get behind that. It feels like a good place for us to come full circle. So if I offer out the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? To live a good life is to relax and accept who you are and relax and accept your creativity because it's put there for a purpose. And if you can learn to listen to it, it's a great guide. It will serve you well. Thank you. You bet, man. This is a blast.

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So I love the irreverence that James brings to everything he does, including himself. Next up, we have author, actor, model, screenwriter of mixed Jamaican and Nigerian heritage, Yersa Daly Ward. So growing up in the northwest of England, she found herself quickly exited from her home, being raised by her grandparents at the age of six and struggling in many ways to understand what had just happened. Then reading and writing became kind of her salvation. A more introverted kid raised in a strict religious family in a tradition no one outside the family shared, vegetarian, and the only black person in her school who also happened to stand nearly a foot above her peers by her early teens. All she wanted to do was fit in, to not stand out. She didn't want to be different. And yet something in the order of magic happened when her teacher noticed her gift for language and

asked her to begin sharing her poems before the class as spoken words. She came alive. It was like she stepped outside of herself and all was as it should be. And that very feeling, though stifled for a time, would come roaring back to life years later when living in Cape Town, South Africa, she stumbled into a weekly poetry group. And following a weekly prompt, Risa wrote a poem entitled Mental Health, then performed it from the stage, and the response took her breath away. In that moment, she knew this would be her life, and it has become just that. Now, many books and many stages in, having cultivated a giant global community, co-written Beyonce's musical film and visual album, Black is King.

Her work has appeared in Vogue, Elle, Harper's Bazaar, and so many other outlets. And that work draws from her own experiences and larger issues affecting her behavior, culture, and life, fusing poetry with theater, music, and storytelling, while sharing universal, sometimes hard but honest, and real experiences in verse in a way that draws you in and makes you feel less alone. Her latest book, The How, was written entirely during the pandemic, and we talk about her journey to this moment and explore some of the poems and ideas, and also dive into what it was like to create work that is so close to the bone at a moment like this. Here's yours.

It feels like a lot of your writing is also, you're writing often things that really appeal to a mass audience, but a lot of it feels like you're writing for you. You're writing because you're sort of like, you need to get out of your head and you need to process. And I'm wondering when you're under contract to write a book, and it's during this particular season where there's just so much affecting you personally, do you ever feel a tension between sort of like what you're writing and just your desire to completely write whatever you need to be okay personally? Absolutely. I did in the last book not with the other two because it was a different writing process completely and with those I I sort of had the product the book I had the poems it was there already so by the time I had the publisher I already had either in the in the case of the first one the book was done and it was a self-published book that they um went on to republish and then with the second one I still had a lot so it was more like shaping but this

was different and yeah of course of course there's tension because as well you know I'm gonna blame being an Aquarius I don't really know but there's no structure to anything you know it's just what comes comes uh I've tried to be stricter and I think I have things that work better now but I still it's still a sort of chaos but it's a chaos that I really enjoy um and so yeah that when it comes to deadlines and stuff I have to I almost trick myself into still believing that it's just for me it's just for me and I could do it or not do it yeah I think we all sort of have our own go-to in order yeah to sort of like do like do the productive side of of the creative process um so it sounds like writing also for you touches down at a really young age. I'm curious, do you have a sense what that was about?

Was it just an interest? Was it coping mechanism? Was it creative expression? Was it world creating? I'm curious, what was the job of writing for you when you were little? Well, I know exactly how this came about. And it was it's because my mother read to me when I was really young. And she let me read anything that was there. And I have an appetite for language and for words. I always have and always will. But the reason why I have is

because my mom got to me when I was little, like really small, younger than six, way younger, and would read to me over and over again. I mean, her whole bookcase was available to me. Everything from medical journals to the Kama Sutra was there. My mum was like, if you can understand it read it and because of that I developed this facility with language which meant I was well ahead of reading ages and everything like that and I mean we didn't go to maths or anything I was awful at maths absolutely terrible but reading definitely yes and uh and because of that I think when you love language

you write it's how you express yourself uh I think I write much clearer than I speak and that's because I was reading along with speaking and writing just became an extension of that it's it's how I communicate with the world. And yeah, when I was young, I think it was a way to tell the truth about things that you're maybe too shy to say or not allowed to say. Because with my grandparents, you couldn't say anything. I mean, you would have got into serious trouble. So, you know, when you write and you put it in the work, it's kind of tolerated a bit better yeah it's almost like when everything around you is so rigid you need a you need a release valve like somehow like something it has to come out in some way shape or form it sounds like for you writing was was in no small part the release valve for you

i love it because you can be totally wild you know i can write about things i would never dream of talking about i do that all the time it's's like where I go to, you know, be, let it all out. Do you feel you're more honest when you write than when you speak? Completely, completely. I don't know. I mean, I don't walk around lying to everyone, but I'm an introvert. it's not yeah I probably don't express and definitely not in the way that I would when I write but when I write I'll write anything yeah I love that as a fellow introvert I totally get that it resonates you know it's sort of like if you want to really know me like like read me yeah because it just comes out differently and more open more honest than in the vast majority of conversations like unless you know me really

really well for a lot of years same same same and even then you know you're still you're still you're still presenting something you still i guess you still want we want love or we want validation or we want people to like us. And I feel like I can be a bit more unlikable in text or a bit more raw. And that, yeah, I'm addicted to that. Yeah. Were you sharing your writing when you were little or was this just writing for you? No, no, no. I mean, I shared shared I shared at school I was the one at the front of the assembly when when the teachers would be like yes has got a poem and then I'd read it and

that's another thing as well encouragement with kids I think I got encouraged from a really early age as soon as I shared my writing like I was always asked to to read pieces that I'd written at school and that was I the only I mean I feel like that that was that was where I shone it was the only place in which I thought you know I could be as good as anyone else because I was the only one asked to do those things. And that meant a lot to me at that age, just feeling so like, so different. But so, so, so different. There is a line in Mental Health that, there's this one, I mean, the whole poem is really powerful,

but there's this one line, see that just outside there are people lined streets that are emptier than your insides. That I read that so many times. I was like, wow. Yes. I think we have all felt that experience so many times. And sort of like that line ends up in a poem, which ends up in this first book, Bone, which you put out yourself. And people resonate with really powerfully. Ends up eventually getting picked up by Penguin first book, Bone, which you put out yourself. Yes. And people resonate with really powerfully. Ends up eventually getting picked up by Penguin and published more traditionally. A little while after that, you end up... So it's interesting because this is still really in the realm of poetry.

And then the next thing you do that's book length at Taraball, which would come out in 18, maybe? It was 2018, 2019? Yeah, 18. Which is much more memoir, right? And it's sort of like really talking about your experience with personal struggles and mental illness and abuse and addiction. And I'm curious what that's like. So you're putting into the world these poems, which talk about these things, but in this sort of like artistic poetic way and then the terrible is sort of like more it's a

different thing than i'd seen you put out before that and i'm curious like what that was like for you to sort of like put that into the world this is another example of it having like something beyond you doing this because me yes sir does not want to talk about my personal, personal, personal. Naturally. It just isn't a thing, you know. I'm not that way. And yet, this book comes out with the grittiest grit of the grittiest. And in which I'm honest about so many things.

I've never told a living soul before. Because, oh God, I mean, they, honestly, my agent said, do you have anything else? At the time when Penguin was going to publish Bone. And I said, yeah, even though they didn't, because I, you know, I'm an opportunist and a hustler and that's how I grew up.

And you make your opportunities. And I was like, I can write something. And then I thought it wasist and a hustler, and that's how I grew up, and you make your opportunities. And I was like, I can write something. And then I thought it was going to be this beautiful, genre-bending fictional book. And then it's just me just coming out, and I'm just like, oh, I'm writing a memoir. Okay, then. And then I try not to think about it.

It comes, and it comes, and it comes, and it comes, and then it I try not to think about it comes it comes and it comes and it comes and then it's it's done and there it all is I didn't intend to do that at all but I couldn't hide from it when it was coming because I was in service to it and my story is like the story is more powerful than me I'm just like who it's coming through. And it could have come through any other person who, you know, we read sort of memoirs all the time. And yeah, I just think it would be arrogant to kind of start putting myself into it or putting my fear into it.

I just have to do it and let go. I think because once it meets the air it's something else anyway it's not really yours it's it's whoever whoever reads it it belongs to them in a way so if it's coming out just just let it you know it's how i wrote bone you know uh yeah yeah i mean i think that is often one of the hardest things for us to do is just let it flow, you know, because we want to prejudge it before it hits the page and say, like, is it worthy of being even memorialized? Is it going to be accepted? You know, like, is it the way that I want the story to be perceived about me, rather than just saying, no, this is the truth exactly i would love if you could read one or two things i was thinking milestones and other cons is uh oh yeah really kind of cool and interesting i think would really resonate with a lot of people with where they are right now okay milestones and other cons destination versus now we are here for a prescribed and brief amount of time, a blip, longer for some than others.

We are here to create, to love, to learn, to grow, to share our gifts and, most importantly, to experience joy. It's not about getting to point B, but the journey, they say. And it sounds like a lie, but it is truer than we realize. What is point B anyway, but number two in a long list of even more things? To be clear, when I speak of joy, I don't mean the intangible state that we call happiness. When I speak of joy, I speak of something altogether more nuanced and real to me, something I can taste and feel and name. I speak of the experience and dynamism of being alive in the world. I speak of darkness and light, arousal and feeling. Joy is largely to be found in the dreaming and conceiving of a thing,

the travelling toward it, who we are when we are with others in and around our path and what we do on the way. The destination is no fixed point and it is never all it's promised to be. No sooner do we land than we look for the very next place on which to set our sights. That in itself is no bad thing. It is incredible and natural that our desires are always regenerating, that our desires should shift. But we must be wary of assigning a feeling of ultimate satisfaction to the experience of completion, or we will be disappointed. In order to feel vital and have any real enjoyment, we must find the beauty in the dreaming and planning and less so in the outcome. If joy is to exist at all, it can only ever be now. Otherwise, nothing great is

solved when we succeed. We think that there'll be this fanfare and happiness will come. But no, if you don't feel the joy in getting it, there'll be no more joy in the having it. Sorry, humans are just set up that way. We love a problem to solve, a thing to make our god, something we can exalt, something to pin our dreams on. Nothing will give you the feeling. It must exist on its own, without condition, alive and breathing, reliant on nothing. And this does not always seem to make sense, since validation, whether social or monetary, seems to lie on the other side of the line, the green over yonder, the next place. When we have achieved, insert milestone, things will be better. When you have gone, insert place, things will be better. When

you have acquired, insert new material things, things will be better. And this is because we live in a system that applauds material wealth, appearances and status. But after gaining some of the things that we said we wanted, we are still never quite there. Well, what is the point of the journey, you might say say if our day in the sun means nothing if the accolades and achievements are pointless. I do not mean to deny the importance of goals as highlighted in the previous chapter it's a transformative exercise to name and say what we want and to imagine those things with creativity and delight. But I speak to the intentionality of the goal, what we want and for which reasons. I mean that the goal will solve nothing in and of itself if

we are not suitably equipped. I mean that we can't use the promise and gifts of tomorrow to escape this very moment. If you are not spiritually fit right now, running anywhere else is pointless. The next place will never save you. Name four things that you wanted and now have. Do you still want them? Did they change you? For how long? Name four things that you attach great value to now. How long have you wanted them? Is there anything that links them together? Do you think that they will change you if so how now think of two instances in which you are completely fixed on some future outcome how can you actively begin to enjoy your progress towards those goals in this very moment such inquiries are important whether we know the answers right away or whether the questions hang in the background

flowering oh that was okay no that was beautiful and so poignant and so of the moment too in so many ways um there's another piece um the desire behindire. I'm not going to ask you to read it, but there were a couple of lines in there where you write, if we are artists, truth is the only way in which we can make the work truly resonant and urgent. If we are true about what we are feeling, no matter how specific, it will become universal. That is why when your work meets the air there's nothing to fear yeah i think you're always going to touch someone by being as honest as you possibly can whatever whatever that truth is whatever that truth is is valid and and we'll set somebody free you know starting with yourself it will travel and

it will be powerful i think and i think that's what we're all trying to get closer to, right? Yeah, we're trying. I'm trying. In a lot of different ways. For sure. Although I think it scares us also a lot because I think, you know, as much as we want to live and understand and see things clearly, it also sometimes means accepting hard truths about ourselves, about society, about the world. And sometimes we choose delusion just because we don't want to deal with that because we know it's coming if we say yes to truth on all levels.

That's true. That's so true. A bit of delusion from time to time, you know know escapism or whatever we call it but yeah you know i'm the most moved by things that remind me of the truth even if it's uncomfortable uh yeah those are the things that resonate with me not always ready for them though or any of us right right it feels like a good place for us to come full circle in our conversation as well. So sitting here in this container of a good life project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up?

To live a good life, fall in love with the small things and fall in love with them often. Fall in love with them daily. Really notice them. Try not to let the beautiful parts of your life slip by unnoticed. Thank you. Thank you.

Jonathan, that was such a beautiful conversation. And finally, we're bringing this creativity deep dive home with sushi chef turned visual artist and muralist phenom, Mike Han. So Mike was a rising star in the world of sushi and set to open his own place when the pandemic hit. It completely knocked him to his knees and left him after literally investing everything he had in getting this new place up and running literally without any money, unable to even pay the next month's rent. But Mike had always had what he considered a side passion. He loved art as a kid, even began studying it, but didn't see a way to make a living at it. So kind of walked

away from it or just made it the thing that he would dip into on the side. But in that faithful moment, he turned back to visual art and just started madly creating, drawing on a deep reverence for all the different forms, including calligraphy, sharing his work, and just seeing if anyone would care, let alone support it. And the chain of events that unfolded over the next two years, honestly, it's hard to explain in any rational sense. He said yes to this call and the universe did in fact rise up to support him time and time again in the most astonishing ways, especially after a life where Mike had felt a number of times he was similarly brought to a very tough place and nobody was there to respond. Mike has now made massive waves as a rising artist who

proudly reps Detroit as his home with these large-scale collaborations with global brands like LinkedIn, Vitamin Water, and Google, public art projects, and private commissions. His work has been featured on BBC World News, Design Boom, Cool Hunting, Architectural Digest, Apartment Therapy, Detroit Free Press, and on the cover of Scene Magazine, and is featured in the permanent collection of Huntington Bank, Mercedes-Benz Financial Services, Henry Ford Health Systems, Shinola Hotel, Daxon Hotel. And amazingly, he feels like he's just getting started. And he is so astonishingly humble and reverent about the process and the materials that he works

with. Here's Mike. My parents decided to take me to Korea for the first time. This is my first and only time. And that was, yeah, 2005, I think, something like that. And so we went and that was kind of a life-changing experience. Got to witness a Korean calligraphy master painting and eat Korean food around the coast and have fresh seafood and just all this amazing stuff. And then I got to meet some family over there. And my aunt, she was formerly in fashion design. But while she was out in Korea, she ended up transitioning her practice into making fashion for dolls. And so really foreign to me. And, you know, I was just in a weird place at that time. And she, you know, I think she had some inkling that I was creative and she asked if I wanted to be part of a show and I was like, okay, whatever, like I'm not doing

anything, you know? And so I made a piece and then i got to collaborate with a an artist uh there um a little a sculptor we made like a polymer sculpture together it's called the beautiful death is this young girl who cuts out her own heart to give it to a doll to give the doll life like super morbid i was in a very bad place um but i thought there was something beautiful about this idea of giving giving life life, sacrificing to give life. And it was, you know, all in the form of dolls.

And it was in Samji, which is kind of like, you know, the creative center of Korea. So my first show was in Seoul, which is crazy. And someone, you know,

wanted to buy the piece. My dad's like, no, they're not allowed to. It's the first thing you've made. So he, he preserved it. And before we got back,

I started researching like dolls and like i loved characters and and cartoons and things like that you know for my youth and so i found out there's this thing called urban vinyl and there were this movement at that time emerging of a small vinyl figures that were made for adults that were art toys essentially and so i you know research i was like okay well if i'm gonna do something like this is like this is what i want to do and i found that there was one school in america that had a toy design program and it was otis and so we found out that they had a couple weeks until the deadline and i was like well whatever i'm gonna shoot my shot you know and I broke out

some lined paper and started drawing stick figures on line paper uh one of them being of a stick figure of me uh stapling my finger to a piece of paper because I did that once when I was a kid super weird terrible portfolio I didn't have one sent it in and then when we got back home you know I decided you know like I don, you know, like, I don't care if I get in, like, I'm going to go to LA because that's where the scene is, you know, like the art toys and all that stuff are there. And so I packed my stuff in my car and I was ready to go. My parents were freaking out because I didn't get accepted. And so one day before I was supposed to leave, we came back from dinner or something and there was a voicemail and it said that uh you know

congratulations you got no kidding and so i drove out as planned you know but i actually had a place to go which was great and dropped out because like life drawing and like all the stuff that like real artists actually don't like wait a minute like i thought i was gonna get to like make toys here and uh so i didn't i didn't last more than a semester or two. Yeah, I mean, I'm detecting a common theme here also, which is you get interested in something and you just kind of like throw your hat in the ring. And say like, let me just see what happens here, which is... The Apple Watch Series 10 is here.

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