Good Life Project - IN-Q | Poetry Rising

Episode Date: March 17, 2020

IN-Q is a National Poetry Slam champion, award-winning poet, and multi-platinum songwriter. His groundbreaking achievements include being named to Oprah's SuperSoul 100 list of the world's most influential thought leaders, being the first spoken word artist to perform with Cirque Du Soleil, and being featured on A&E, ESPN, and HBO's Def Poetry Jam. He's inspired audiences around the world through his live performances and storytelling workshops. Many of his recent poetry videos have gone viral with over 70 million views combined. Contemplating universal issues of love, loss, forgiveness, transformation, and belief, his new book, Inquire Within shines a light on our lives and provides a wholly unique and dynamic lens through which to think about ourselves and our world.You can find IN-Q at: Website |Instagram-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My guest today, Adam Schmalholtz, is also known as NQ. In fact, he's probably more publicly known by that. He's a national poetry slam champion, award-winning poet, and multi-platinum songwriter. He was named to Oprah's Super Soul 100 list of the world's most influential thought leaders. First spoken word artist to perform was Cirque du Soleil and has been featured everywhere from A&E, ESPN, HBO's Poetry Def Jam, and inspired audiences around the world through live performances and storytelling workshops where he invites people to step into their own poetry and to own it and to become brave and vulnerable and share.

Many of his recent poetry videos have also gone viral with, I don't know, something like 70, 80, 90, probably at this point over 100 million views combined. He grew up in Venice, California and really immersed himself in the world of hip hop and rap in the early days, writing and freestyling and rap battles before finding his place in the poetry scene in LA, becoming a weekly regular at the Poetry Lounge for nearly 15 years while building his skills and voice and presence and supporting himself writing songs for megastars like Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, and so many others. Now his first book of poems, Inquire Within, is out. I am super excited to have him on the show.

And he's also performing a number of his spoken word pieces that kind of weave in and out of the conversation. You will not want to miss this deeply personal conversation, along with the chance to be swept away by the beauty and power of his performances. So excited to share it with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman.

I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot.

Flight risk. So we're actually just fresh back from three weeks on the road ourselves. And the last chunk of it spent in Santa Monica, which you know well. That's where I'm from. Yeah. Stomping grounds. Where were you? We were actually staying down in Venice, like right on the edge of Venice and sort of like the south part of Santa Monica.

That's literally where I'm from. Is it really? Yeah, Bay Street and Lincoln. And when you were coming up in that area, what was it like then? You know, it's interesting. No one's ever asked me that question. And if I ever say, oh, I'm from Santa Monica, they just automatically assume whatever. You know, it was interesting. My mother was a single parent.

She was a school teacher. We were raised in a little rent control apartment. And, you know, amazing neighborhood in terms of diversity. Felt like I could, you know, even now to this day, get along with anyone from anywhere. You know, any economic background, you know. I just usually feel very comfortable connecting right away. And I think that was based on my upbringing yeah i mean venice beach then and even now to a certain extent although

times square back then was sort of this place where just like mayhem was going on at the time venice beach felt oddly similar to me back then yeah it feels a little bit the same still these days but then like you step a block off and everything feels different you got like abbott kinney it's sort of like okay so now i'm in you know like park slope brooklyn yeah i don't know venice uh you know it's an amazing place to live because you can't beat the lifestyle but um it's definitely kind of an amusement park for adults these days. And it's a bit of a bubble. Yeah. I know eventually you get into spoken word and actually the entree for that for you is,

is more the musical route. What filled you up when you were a kid, certainly before you found that, because it also sounds like, I know you've heard, heard you talk about the fact that you shared, you grew up, your mom was a single mom,

didn't know your dad when you were younger, but also you've spoken about the fact that you grew up, your mom was a single mom, didn't know your dad when you were young. But also you've spoken about the fact that you had a lot of rage as a kid. I think I had a lot of emotion as a kid. I had a lot of anger. I had a lot of sadness. And I didn't really have an outlet for that. What was it about? What was the genesis?

I think I always felt like I was observing myself from the outside looking in. You know, when you are raised without a father, I think oftentimes you look outside of yourself for what you're supposed to be. You know, there's not that sense of security and identity. And my mom did an amazing job raising me, but there was still that absence. And I think ultimately I turned to art to fill that space yeah music was sounds like the the entree to that or was it other forms of art expression um you know i fell in love with hip-hop when i was like 13 years old and i just absolutely, I think, was attracted to the purity of the expression. And I started to freestyle very naturally on my own. And freestyling, I would say, was my first form of meditation.

Because when you're freestyling, you can't think about anything else but the next word or the next rhyme. And know, that brings you into the moment like nothing else can. And that was something that became an addiction to me. And at that time, it was really my religion. Yeah. Describe what freestyling is for those who don't know what you're talking about. Freestyling is just when you start to speak and, you know, you almost are like on the train and building the train tracks at the same time, you know, but you're rhyming. So we're sitting in a chair right here about to light like a flare blow into the atmosphere. It's crystal clear, like a chandelier. I can steer this in any direction, not perfection, but you know, blah, blah, blah. So it's like that type of thing. You just start and whatever comes, comes, you know, and it's not something that I do very often at all anymore, but at the time it was necessary for me.

And, you know, it really like shaped, I would say my younger artistic life. Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting also because there's the idea of sitting down with an idea or a theme or a story and crafting language and refining it and refining it and then practicing it and then making it so, you know, like if, and when you step up and share this with the world, you feel like you've got it dialed in versus freestyle is like the exact opposite yeah and yet at the same time i wonder if there's a story about about martin luther king jr's uh famous i have a dream speech and how halfway through that he was going in one direction but mahalia jackson's like tell him about the dream tell him about the dream and he changes in the moment and largely freestyles the entire i have a dream sequence in that talk but then if you track it back you see that he'd actually been workshopping

like lines and phrases and for that for a while in talks before that so when when you step up to freestyle especially in the early days is it like completely in the moment free-flowing it's just coming out of you in real time or do you feel like you're also drawing on like bits and pieces that you've worked out and figuring out how to slide i mean integrate and move in and out of it i mean you're absolutely doing bits and pieces yeah but you also have complete discovery and complete creation in the moment so uh both are intertwining simultaneously and it's a beautiful experience you know and that was really something that i needed to put me in the moment because there

were so many things that i had no other outlet for and it was the first thing that i really fell in love with yeah was it a gradual evolution or do you remember a moment, a battle, something that happened where something you said, this, like this, this stuff and there was like a battle happening on stage and somehow I got involved and there was like 250 people, 300 people in the club and I won the battle like on stage. Had you ever been on stage before that? That was the first time that I was on stage battling somebody. I had definitely battled people in cyphers and different things like that, but that was the first time that I got an audience's reaction. And so to win, I remember it was like two rounds back and forth. And to win and to have the crowd react to what I was creating was unlike anything I had ever felt.

And I felt empowered in ways that I think at the time i didn't feel empowered at all in my life so it was an important moment yeah i mean it's almost like um there's a sense of external validation that i think especially we see we tend to seek a lot more when we're younger yeah and when you first feel that in your teens you know like knowing that you feel like you're developing chops and having something good from the inside out. And then when 250 people validate and they're like, yeah, this is something. I would imagine that would be incredibly powerful. But also at the same time, does that flip a switch where you start to seek not just the outlet and the expressions or like those moments

of flow to make you okay with the state of your life but also does that start to interject this notion of i need more of that from the outside in you know not at that time but later you know that didn't happen immediately but eventually if you seek anything externally for your sense of identity, you're going to get in trouble. I mean, it's just a part of the process. And as an artist, when you start creating for other people, you co-opt your own voice. That's why I don't try to strategize inspiration. You know, inspiration doesn't come from manipulation. It comes from space.

True inspiration is something that moves through you. You know, so I feel like I'm the vehicle and the obstacle for my poetry at this point. Tell me more about that. I think it comes through my experiences and my thoughts and my emotions. But ultimately, I have to get out of the way for the poem to show up. So always if I start in a place that's true, the rest of the poem will almost write itself as long as I give it enough time and space. But sometimes I'll be writing, for example, and I'll write something that I know is dope

and I'll be like, oh, that's dope. But it's not right. It's not really what the poem wants to say. And so then I go back to the place where it was right. You know, and then I go again from there because ultimately it's not really about me. Yeah. Is that a gut feeling for you? Or is there something, is there a process where you can kind of distinguish those two things

i think that's intuition yeah you know it's like i have to feel through it that's why i mean if i wasn't there the poem wouldn't be created so you know i'm definitely a part of the process but i don't think that you know i'm more important than the piece of art that i'm creating in the moment and ultimately i think the art is more important than the artist of art that I'm creating in the moment. And ultimately, I think the art is more important than the artist because it can last longer. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting though, because when you sort of have that process, like the gut check, it's almost like I think about Buddhism, it's like right action. There's a sense that, yes, I can do this. And yes, it may well work. And people do this in business all the time. Yeah, I can market sense that yes i can do this and yes it may well work and people

do this in business all the time yeah i can market this way i can do this i can build this and i can sell it and i can make money but then there's something inside that says but this is not right action um but sometimes that switch doesn't get flipped until this thing that you've created actually goes out into the world and people start to react with it and it's that moment even if they're accepting it where something in you says it's not right do you have an example for that in your own life or what are you thinking of when you sign that what what I think of is is what I see a lot of people do in the world of marketing where you can create a marketing experience

that'll get people to buy stuff, which you know they don't need it. And I see that happen a lot in the world of business and entrepreneurship and stuff like that. But I think it happens in the world of art too, where you can kind of see where the zeitgeist is going. You can kind of see what's happening in the market right now and create to it.

And the part of you that says, I want to sustain myself with my arts is okay i'm all in but to a certain extent you wonder if you're sneaking something by people yeah i mean that's why i'm saying i don't want to strategize my inspiration because it really is a manipulation at that point and And I write for myself. I look around and see what moves me, what inspires me, what annoys me. And I start there. I don't look for inspiration. I find inspiration. Or maybe I'm just paying attention, you know? Yeah. Along those lines, one of the things that you've written about really recently in your new book, Inquire Within, in fact, it kind of starts the book. I think it's a second poem in there. It's a poem about your dad.

Yeah. Which I know in the past, you've been okay referencing very generally and saying that's not like, I'm not ready to tell that story. And this is a poem where you kind of step into it in a big way. Are you open sharing that? Yeah, I am. But actually I wrote that poem years ago. I would say that that's the oldest poem in the book. Interesting. But it was an aspirational poem at the time. And I would say that it's only in the last five years that I've kind of been able to embody it. And a lot of my poems are, you know, it's either purging or praying or both.

And so when I'm writing, I'm talking to myself. And that's why I think I don't really strategize my inspiration in that way, because then I would be manipulating myself first before I even get to the audience. So if I'm able to explore something that I need to be reminded of, it helps me get there quicker in my life. Before you dive in, what happens then that makes you say, okay, so I wrote this a long time ago and it was aspirational and it was largely for me. Like, I just need to get this out. What happens that makes you say, okay, now it's actually time to make this public? Because this becomes a conversation or this becomes at least a public statement. What makes you okay with that?

Like, how do you bridge that gap? Yeah, I mean, I have been performing it for a long time, but there's only certain audiences and situations where it makes sense. For the most part, I would use this for my poetry workshops, you know, because if you want people to be vulnerable, you have to lead by example. You know, you can't ask someone to do something that you're not willing to do do yourself. It's actually irresponsible. So this was one of the poems that I would use. And then I would ask people to explore a moment that changed who they are in their life. Ultimately, this poem called

Father Time is about forgiveness, but it's also about the first time I met him, which was when I was 15 years old. And so that was something that became a doorway for other people when I would do these workshops for them to delve into themselves and be willing to get up and share and be vulnerable from a place of strength. But other than that, there weren't a lot of, I mean, I get hired all over the country and the world to perform, but there's not a lot of environments where this poem made sense to share it. And then as I grew as a human being, and as I changed, the meaning of the poem changed for me as well. And I learned some of the hidden messages that

I'd unconsciously put in there. Want to share with us? Sure. It's called Father Time. I'm staring at the number wondering if I should call. I can hear the tick-tock from the clock on the wall as it meshes with the thump-thump beat of my heart. Sometimes getting something started is the hardest part. I didn't meet my dad until I was 15. I'd seen his photograph, but his image was sickening. A coward with a dick, but no balls to back it up.

See, when he left me as a kid, I had cause for acting up. The funny thing about hate is the person you hate doesn't feel that hate. You feel that hate, but wait. The wait can be too much for a person to take. Personally, I was hurt, so I just locked it away. I was angry all the time. And I didn't know why. I couldn't handle my own rage, so I would hide it inside, pretending everything was fine became a daily pastime. Time passed and I started to believe in my own lies.

I took it out on my mom because she raised me alone. The rage that I couldn't own had left me totally numb. It was like landmines in my mind that I didn't understand. So when the boy inside cried, the young man outside yelled. I think I learned about my masculinity from TV. The people weren't real, so I knew they couldn't leave me I would sit there for hours right in front of the tube the images that I saw with my depiction of truth it was manhood in a box and I bought into it the censorship of anything inside of me that's sensitive the sentence is a lifetime of tears suppressed in a stone face, an overblown ego they've distracted through a paper chase.

Back when I was nine, I imagined in my mind that my father was a spy working for the FBI, and that's why he couldn't stop by, write a drop of line. He was off saving our lives from the bad guys. But that was just a lie that I used to get by so that you wouldn't see the tears welling up in my eyes. When you're rejected by the person that you're created by, you secretly feel like you don't have a right to your life. I thought if I confronted him, then it would make it all right. But since I couldn't forgive him, it just recycled my spite. I remember meeting him for the first time. Every time a person passed by, I would ask,

Mom, is that him? I look a little like him, right? No? Oh. Well, what about that guy? And that was what it was like to meet the man that gave me my life. To shake his hand and look into his eyes. We talked till he apologized, then said our goodbyes. I walked away on my own, then I began to cry. Now, for years after that, I acted like it was all resolved. I told him what I thought, so I figured problems solved. But it just re-evolved. My insecurities were eating at my mental health. I took it out on the world because I hated myself. That's when I finally decided I needed some help.

I opened up. I started writing and sharing about my past. I got honest with myself and started chipping at my mask. I looked into the mirror and confronted what I saw, accepting the reflection by embracing every flaw, then directing the connection into breaking down the walls by reflecting the perfection of the God inside us all. I stopped focusing on everything that I had been hateful for and started focusing on everything I could be grateful for. And personally, there is a lot I can be thankful for. If pain is dragging you down, just cut the ankle cord. That's when the weight lifted and I really started living. It's when my hate shifted and I really started giving. It's when my fate twisted. It was like an ego exorcism. Your mind state can be the most powerful of prisons. My father never played catch with me or gave advice, but if nothing else, that man gave me my life. And that's enough for me. If that is all he could ever give, because I'm appreciative for every day I get to live. And even though I don't need my dad to validate me,

I thought that I should write this poem to thank him for creating me. Because every moment that we are alive is like a gift. And if that's not enough to forgive, then what is? I'm staring at the number wondering if I should call. I can hear the tick-tock from the clock on the wall as it meshes with the thump-thump beat of my heart. Sometimes getting something started is the hardest part.

I pick the phone up. The dial tone begins to sing. I punch his number into it and it begins to ring, ring, ring. Hello, Mike. Hey, man, it's Adam, your son. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming,

or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. How has the way you feel when you offer that changed over time? I would say there was more anger when I did it originally, because I was still trying to achieve that in a cellular way. And now I feel really at peace with that story. And I think that that speaks to art because there's the creation of the art, which helps separate that story from your life if you're exploring something that was difficult.

And it allows you to have a little bit more ownership over it rather than it having ownership over you. And then there's the sharing of it. And the sharing of it is the alchemy because you actually get a chance to say something that's real and true for you and to share your human experience and to have that mirror from the people that listen to it. And even if the circumstances are different, they understand because we're all going through this human experience together. Yeah. I mean, as you are offering, I mean, it's deeply moving, also deeply personal.

And at the same time, I'm sure for so many, creates the space for them to step into it with the unique circumstances of their life, if it calls them to. It's interesting to me that this is something that you have offered, that you shared in a limited way, sort of like in public performance. I know you've done a lot of work in schools

over the years also. The thing, like, I would imagine so many high schoolers, college age, you know, students feel some variation of this where like, this would be something that lands in a really powerful way when especially when you're younger and you're really grappling with how do i put language to the things that i'm feeling and i'm having trouble letting out and sharing yeah i mean that's why i think art is so necessary in schools and it's really a travesty that they've started to remove funding all around our country because it's the thing that allows kids who feel powerless to find power. And they

can, of course, create on their own, but why not provide space and structure for them to create in the schools. A lot of my earlier workshops were at a place called Art Share, Upward Bound, which is, you know, kids who are going to go into college for, you know, the first time anyone in their families. I had done juvenile places. I had done, you know, high schools and colleges and libraries. And I would just a beautiful experience to watch the spark in their eyes get turned on. All of these poems that I put into the book Inquire Within, they were always living, breathing documents for me. And they would change as I would change. My experience of them would change. I would edit them in real time. And this is the first time that I've ever had a home for all of this art that I've created over the years. And it's been a really,

really beautiful process to finally have something that I can give away to people. Yeah. Just sort of like have them revisit it and move slowly through it. Yeah. And also I think when you're offering it as a spoken word piece, yes, you can step into the ideas and the language, but it's still your voice they're hearing in their head. Whereas when somebody reads it in a book, maybe they've actually heard you perform the piece already.

So to a certain extent, they're still hearing your voice, but it's much more likely that they actually, they're hearing their voice in their head and can probably take ownership of it in a different level. Which is more important to me. There is a completion in giving it away. And so this is almost like a death for me so that it can have new life for others. And it is full circle for me finally on all of these poems because I've lived with them for so long and it's time to give them away without me even having to be there yeah I love the way you describe sort of creating a

safe place for especially kids young adults to sort of like explore and step into it it sounds very similar to um like what Kevin Cabalbalt did in chicago with yeah kevin's amazing man yeah he's an amazing poet and i love all the work that he's done yeah and the whole i think louder than bombs like 20 years old now which is like taking generally high school and younger kids and just giving them this space to get out what needs to get out um stepping back into your path so you start to basically on the local scene create poetry a lot of it in the context of hip-hop and context of battling in the early days um you end up what 19 20 years old um in the poetry lounge yeah and kind of fall into a group of people who to a

certain extent would is it fair to say kind of like make that entire scene? I mean, for Los Angeles, you know, the Poetry Lounge was it. But I mean, there's the New Yorican in New York. There's a lot of amazing, amazing poetry lounges all around the country. But this was the Poetry Lounge. Tell me about that moment, about like what was happening, that scene. Yeah, my friend literally gave me a flyer when I was 19 and he was like, we should go to this thing. And so I showed up and signed up on the list

and just basically got up and started doing my rapping acapella. And I never left, man. I came every single Tuesday night for like 14 years. I mean, first of all, I couldn't figure out how to monetize poetry, but the space was incredible. It was the first time I'd ever seen people being celebrated for vulnerability in that way. In the same way that if somebody said a dope line in a battle rap, everyone would

be like, oh, you know, people were like, oh, when you said something real and true, when you were exploring political topics and all sorts of things like that. And when people were getting up and sharing stories, you know, about their lives that they might have never told anyone, they were being celebrated for that. And it was an awesome environment, man. man the artists that were there some of my best art experiences i've ever had is while being in the audience watching other poets on stage you know at the lounge and elsewhere and it was just uh i i was addicted to it yeah and the community became like a family who would who was showing up there? I mean, Dante Bosco, Sheehan Poetry, and Jamel Hooper started it. But we had an amazing community. Seikyu Andrews, Natalie Patterson, Javon Johnson, Omari Hardwick. I mean, we were a tribe and still are. I mean, we've all kind of spread out, but, you know, it was a situation where every single week you would come back and you would share something new. And so, you know, you getting up and sharing that would inspire all of the other artists that were there to bring their best out. And it's similar to, you know, playing sports or battling. You know, if I used

to battle somebody who was good, I would just do barely enough to beat them. But if I was battling somebody great, they would bring out another gear for me. And that whole community brought out another gear for me. And I started exploring other concepts that I had never explored in my rhymes. And ultimately I woke up one day and realized I was more of a poet than an MC. It's interesting. We've, we've actually had Seiko on the podcast a couple of years back and he shared the moment where, cause he started out more sort of like hip hop rap also.

And he, and he shared, there was this moment where, you know, when he started, you know, even on the poetry side, it was syncopated, it was on the beat and something clicked in his brain. He said, wait a minute, like this actually doesn't have to be like that. I can make it more freestyle. I can flow. I can just, it can be more about the rhythm and the cadence of the language rather than a sort of like specific predefined beat. And that was like an unlocked moment for so much of what he did. Sounds like you experienced a bit of a similar evolution. Yeah, I mean, Sekou is one of my best friends. I'm so stoked for him

because he was just nominated for a spoken word Grammy. Oh, I didn't even know that. Yeah, yeah. Michelle Obama beat him. But that's huge for poetry in general. And he's an amazing, amazing artist. When he first showed up on the scene, he really shifted things because he was doing things that nobody else were doing. And that was what was so amazing about it is everyone had their own unique style.

And so, you know, if you got up and you were copying somebody else, people would call you out for that shit. And I don't know if I had that one moment of realization in terms of, oh, I can do anything. I think it was more gradual for me. You know, my becoming a poet was more incremental and accumulative over time. You know, we won the National Poetry Slam Championships and I was on HBO's Deaf Poetry Gym. But I still considered myself a rapper the whole entire time. And then something shifted, but it was more gradual than it was immediate. Was there a resistance to stepping into the identity of a capital P poet?

Because was there any concern about like, well, how do I describe that? How do I own that identity in conversation with other people like was there a social context to that that you resisted um no I mean I was proud of being a poet as well and I was super proud of my community you know I mean we just like bonded and I was so inspired and impressed by all of their art. So it's not that I felt, you know, I was shying away from the identity of being a poet. I think I was holding on to the identity

of being a rapper more. You know, it was almost like I had decided to do this thing and so I just wouldn't let go. And I think to your earlier question, if I'm being honest about validation, when it clicked over for me, where I started seeking validation, it wasn't as much in the writing as it was in the sharing. And so, or in the identity of being that thing, you know, and so that was something that I couldn't let go of. And I, you know, I talk about this in the book in a very different way, but it's basically the difference between ideas and ideologies and that ideas are tools that you can use in your life that will change as your truth and your experience changes, but ideologies become your identity. And if something is your identity, then if you let go of the ideology, you're letting go of who you are

i mean it's a death and that's fucking scary so people don't do it they'll just hold on and uh i would say that's probably why it took me a long time is because i was wearing that story you know yeah um i love that distinction also and i agree i think it's when something becomes an identity level thing something needs to break in a substantial way before we'll shed it or step out of it yeah it usually has to be a traumatic experience and sometimes even that doesn't work but i mean look i could fucking wake up tomorrow and decide I don't want to be a poet anymore. I give myself that freedom. I mean, right now I am so unbelievably grateful and excited for what I do.

You know, I have created a space where I get to express myself for a living. And I feel like I have infinite possibility in what I can write about. And so for me, that's really exciting, but I also never want to become a prisoner to my own choices. You know, I want to realize that, you know, me showing up here today isn't an obligation. This is a choice. So I want to enjoy being with you and connect and see what's here and be curious and enthusiastic. Oftentimes people become a prisoner to their own choices. And then those choices become obligations and they can't tell the difference. Yeah, so true.

What is it about poetry is what I really want to ask. There are so many ways to craft language, to write and to offer them. I guess basically probably the question underneath that is what is the difference between poetry and any other form of linguistic expression also? And then why is it different? Why do we feel it differently? I know I'm asking you, it's almost like a metaphysical question to a certain extent. But in your experience, why do I hear the words? Why can you take an idea, a simple idea,

conveyed as just basic words and then offered in a more poetic way? Why does it land so profoundly differently in your mind? It's an interesting question. It's a difficult one to answer. I would say there's something about rhymes that make people lean in. You know, I could say something without a rhyme

and people could be like, wow, that's really interesting. But if I say it with a rhyme, people are like, wow, that's profound. You know, and I think that there's something we're waiting for that rhyme internally. And so when we get it, it's familiar. It's almost like we're anticipating what is going to come next. And there's a familiarity there that allows it to land in a deeper way i would say rhythm has a lot to do with it you know the different ways that you can play with volume and emphasis when you're doing poetry i think the silence is as important as the sound you know how you use silence and allow things to take their time with people so that they can reflect in a moment

and then get immediately drawn back into the poem. And yeah, I mean, I guess there's many different ways, but I personally, it's not like I think that poetry is a better art form than anything else. I think it's just unique unto itself. Yeah, I feel like we just, there's something about it where we respond in an interesting and different way. I've thought about it in the context of the structure and the actual content. But the third thing, and this is where it kind of circles back

to what you said earlier, it's about the poem, not the poet. I'm curious about that. Because to me, the third thing, yes're if you're reading it on the page but when it's being delivered as a spoken word piece you know there's a structure of it there's the rhythm there's a cadence there's the content but then there is the visceral felt energy of the person offering it yeah that to me that's a part that is that is a and an essential piece of the art yeah at the same time like you can't you extract that maybe it's still powerful but it's different i was just in uh india at a buddhist monastery and i was able to meet the dalai lama and uh the dalai lama sat down and there was a small group of usai Lama. And the Dalai Lama sat down

and there was a small group of us and we all kind of like gathered around him like children. And the first thing he said, he put up his hand and he said, compassion. And then I literally didn't hear anything else he said because the way he said compassion was so profound for me because it's not always, you know, what's said or even how it's said. It's who says it and the experience that they're bringing to the words that they're using.

And so I would say in the same way, you know, that's true with the poet that's speaking. But I would much rather listen to a poet that says something true than a poet that is great. Because great, technically, you know... You mean like great on a performative level? Yeah. Because I mean, even with me, I mean, the performance gets in the way of the communication often. And I have to just re-remind myself to be present and to offer this. It's an invitation when you're reading poetry. It's not a command. I can't force anyone to listen or feel or think anything.

I don't even particularly want my audience to walk away with anything other than whatever it is that they connect with, because that's what they need most. Yeah. I mean, it strikes me that the ultimate experience is not when you go to see somebody perform poetry and you're awed by the poet, but when you become merged with the experience. And for that to a certain extent, right, it's like the poet. Yes, they're, they're creating it, but they also have to vanish from it simultaneously,

which is this weird duality. That's exactly it. Yeah. That's why it's, you know, the vehicle and the obstacle in the creation of it. And then in the sharing of it. Yeah.

The Apple watch series 10 is here. Meh. watch getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes the apple watch series 10 available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum compared to previous generations iphone 10s are later required charge time and actual results will vary mayday mayday we've been compromised the pilot's a hitman i knew you were gonna be fun on january 24th tell me how to fly this thing mark walberg you know what the difference between me and you is you're gonna die don't shoot if we need them y'all need a pilot flight risk along the way as you're developing your voice during the 14 years at the poetry lounge and starting to build a career you know part of what's going on in the background of your life is okay so developing these chops it's stunning this is a part of me and I have to support myself somehow in the world.

Yeah. So you also step, it seems like you step back into the world of music. You end up getting a publishing deal, which allows you to then start writing songs for some really big names in the music business. And that allows you to support yourself. It gives you a certain amount of notoriety also. Interestingly, it feels like from the outside looking in that you almost like you stepped into music to give you a certain amount of higher level leverage to step back into poetry in a i mean in a different place in a different way

i would love to say that it was um that well thought out it wasn't something's just happened man yeah man i was fucking desperate you know i i couldn't figure out how to make any money and i had a mentor named ross hogarth who's an incredible engineer and producer. And he connected me with Rock Mafia, which is, you know, a production team, a record label, studios. And they really are a one stop, you know, shop for everything. And they're incredible artists. And so they came to one of my poetry shows. You know, I was putting on public poetry shows and still do. And then we came in for a meeting and I ended up writing a song that Miley Cyrus

cut with them. And then they gave me the publishing deal after that. And that was really a financial foundation for me ultimately to consciously get back into poetry and to choose it because I hadn't had any luck in figuring out how to monetize it. I mean, the genre was and still is emerging. You know, like I really believe that in the next five years, poetry is going to enter into popular culture in a new way and change the way that people perceive what it is and what it can be. And I think poets will have their own sitcoms and be on the cover of magazines and be performing on late night. And that'll be, you know, something normal. And I think right now, more than ever, people need the simplicity of someone just speaking about something that's meaningful to them

so that they can feel connected to another human being yeah is that why you feel like it's about to emerge or is it what makes you so convicted that this is about to be the next thing that this is about to sort of like really emerge in a much broader way in public consciousness i mean look you know uh technology is an incredible thing you know what we're doing right now there's no way to really quantify what happens how people are impacted or influenced when you just put something out into the world everyone can use their voice differently it It's really beautiful. And simultaneously, it's really isolating.

And people feel more alone than they've ever felt and more lonely as well. And so I think with all the things that are going on in the world right now, and consumerism that is really just like this mass distraction machine that's constantly trying to take from you, you know, like take your energy, take your attention, take your information, take your likes, take your love. I think that there's a difference between technology being used as a tool and the tool using you.

And so I think in many ways, the tool is kind of using us right now. And people are looking for meaning. They're looking for purpose. And I think that poetry provides that very naturally. And I also think that when poets get up and they speak these stories, people not only feel less alone, but it gives them empathy. And empathy is certainly what the world needs most right now. Yeah. When you strip it down to the language also, I feel like there's a simplicity. There's something very analog to me about poetry, even when it's delivered through technology,

that cuts past the defenses, cuts past the barrier that we tend to all put up. And somehow that gets dropped and we start to feel again. That's really powerful. And I feel like we're in this moment in time where we kind of need that. Yeah, I agree. I i mean we really need that and there's some crazy crazy shit going on in the world man you know i mean i watched the state of the union the other night and i mean it's surreal it was a reality show and uh and he didn't mention climate change once, by the way, which is the biggest existential threat to humanity.

So I have a piece about that in the book called One Little Dot. And I've been sharing that as much as possible as well. But yeah, couldn't agree more. You also have, you mentioned earlier, workshops. So part of it is, yes, you think this is going to be the next thing, but also you're creating the structure to bring people into it. Because I think a lot of times people will listen to the piece that you offered in the beginning and they'll be deeply moved. And then the next thing that pops into your head is, I wish I could do that. And then the next thing that pops into your head is, I never will be able to. And so part of your mission is not just to create and to offer

language, but also to create experiences that let people know, no, actually it's in there and you can, and this is how. Yeah. I mean, we're all storytellers. I mean, that's the history of humanity is sitting around a fire, sharing stories and sharing the past so that it can be brought into the present and ultimately into the future. And so we tell stories every single day, you know, to ourselves, to other people. And the only difference is intending it to be a poem and creating the space to write that poem and then creating the space to share that poem so when i come in and do a workshop that's really all i'm doing is i'm facilitating that space and i'm basically giving people prompts as a platform for

them to explore through poetry which is a genre that they would probably never use to explore anything other than maybe reading a poem here or there or listening to a poet here and there. But we're all poets because we're all storytellers and our voices need to be heard now more than ever. Yeah. When people show up to those workshops, what's the average fear level when people step into a room? Well, I don't even really acknowledge that, you know, because it's imaginary. Or the fear is not imaginary, but the reality of the fear actually doing anything is completely fucking imaginary, you know? So as I said earlier, I just have to lead by example. And if I lead by example and I set the space, people always step into it because people are desperate to express themselves.

They feel so repressed in their everyday lives. A lot of people do at least. And this is just an opportunity to have a trampoline to something new. And so it's an honor for me to provide that space. And I also think in general, we're so afraid of our fears. And it's okay to be afraid of something. It's not okay to allow that fear

to dictate how you live your life. Or it is okay, but not for me. That's not how I want to live. Yeah. I feel like we're also, a lot of us are, yes, we're afraid of our fears, but we're also even afraid of our thoughts. We're afraid of our thoughts. We're afraid of our pain too. Right. And I feel like to a certain extent, we feel like if we memorialize it, either in writing or we share it with another person, it becomes real. Whereas the reality is, no, it's always real. And it's always felt. And the fact that there's no outlet for it actually makes it worse than if there is an outlet. So like when you create a safe space where I think this is part of like the beauty of

the type of experience where you create it, there's a normalizing experience where it's like, okay, it's not like I'm standing up and sharing something and nobody else is when we're all in this together. And you start to realize, oh, we're all, we've all got this stuff going on. And we've got this thing that we've been stifling and now we're all putting words to it. It's like, we're not alone in it anymore. And maybe sharing it doesn't resolve the pain,

but just knowing that you're not alone does something that helps. Yeah, I mean, when you feel isolated, then you feel like I'm the only person who feels this way, you know? And that's literally not true. Every single person has their own trauma, has their own stories, and it's better out than in

because if it's inside of you, it can wind up manifesting into other things. It finds its ways to get out, you know, whether it's through traffic or it creates disease. And I think that there's a difference between exploring these things as a victim or exploring these things in a way that's empowering. And so I will always create the space of empowerment for everyone. I don't want anyone to walk away from a workshop feeling like they're a victim to their own experiences. I want them to feel like there's an opportunity for transformation and alchemy. And so, you know, that's what happens time after time. And it's interesting,

you know, people will come up to me and they'll be like, I've made major, major life decisions in the poetry workshops. You know, they've had these realizations, you know, just because you don't explore these things, as you said, doesn't mean that they don't exist. And so why not have the awareness to actually look at what you're thinking and look at what you're feeling so you have an opportunity to possibly make a different decision or at least know that you have the freedom

to do so if you want to. Yeah. As you're saying that vision of Robin Williams playing the teacher in Dead Poets Society popped into my head where like kid jumps up on the chair and like sweaty tooth madman, like that one will always stick in my head where it's like, there's a moment where you're just, something happens and somehow like everything starts to just burst out of you. Yeah. And to a certain extent, I wonder if like that moment also, once the valve gets placed in, like once you tap the valve, it's really hard to seal that again.

Yeah. Nor should you. I mean, you know, why walk around as a, you know, robotic adult? I have to do this. I have to do that. I have to act like this. I can't show too much emotion. I mean, you know, part of growth is play, you know, and it's being uncomfortable.

And as you said, people are afraid of their thoughts and they're afraid of their pain. They're so afraid to feel their pain that they lock it inside of themselves and pretend that they don't have it. And, you know, why are we so fucking afraid of our pain, man? It's just pain. Let it move through you like rain, and then it can wash away rather than hold on to it and create more. You're somebody who's very curious about love. So we talked about pain. You're also really curious about love. It showed up the moment you walked in here, when you looked at a picture and asked me how long

I was with my wife and how long we were married. And then in conversation before we went on air. Well, cause you had this beautiful memorial to the wedding basically, like this, these beautiful moments, you know, and beautiful pictures. And so I immediately wanted to know what your experience has been because you've been with your wife for many years.

Yeah. Do you have a deeper curiosity just about the nature and quality and access to this experience of love? Yeah. I mean, I'm absolutely curious about love. I'm definitely in love and very, very,

very happy with, uh, with my partner. I mean, we've been together two years, so, uh, we're still at the beginning stages of that, which is interesting to say, you know, when you get older, you're like two years is the beginning stages when you're younger, two years is an eternity, you know? Um, but we're still getting to know each other, you know? And yet I'm absolutely in love in every possible way and learning much more about myself through this process. Yeah. You shared, I don't know, I don't remember when you put this up, a video of you sitting on a street. I think it was in Venice, actually, maybe a couple of years back. People are walking by and you're like, hey man, can I share a love poem with you? Yeah. That was Abba Kenny.

And everyone's ignoring you. And it was just striking to me, like, here's a guy who's just saying, hey, can I have like two minutes of your time to just like share a poem about love? And everyone's like pretending you don't exist yeah what was that like i mean par for the course i mean you know people in general don't have time you know they're going in the direction that they're going and they don't they don't stop to look around you know to see uh what's possible and then i think people perceive poetry to be whatever they perceive poetry to be and um it's not always positive um and so you know they miss what what is possible man um one of the things that you've come to and i sense that this is not why you started, but it seems like you kind of landed on this more recently,

is that there's something deeper that's driving you with poetry, which is a bigger sense of purpose to shift human consciousness. When did that land for you? I think that for me, it starts with shifting my own consciousness. And if I do that and I share it in a pure way, then I think it will naturally shift whoever listens in one direction or the other.

And that's why I always try to come back to hope and empowerment. And I'm trying to be the best of the answers, but I'm going to keep asking questions and sharing my experiences. Yeah. You know, I was in a thing one day, it was like a large talk and I was in the audience and it was Deepak Chopra and Eckhart Tolle, both of whom I very much respect the work and content that they've put out into the world. But, you know, there was a lot of people there and they were asking questions afterwards. And, and so I raised my hand and they didn't call on me. But the question I was going to ask was, when is the last time that you've gone through something in your personal life that's made you

question one of your own teachings? And I think that's a really important question in this culture of hero worship, where we tend to look at other people like they have all the answers. And I think when you look at someone else like they have all the answers, their accomplishments can, instead of being inspiring to you, become almost discouraging because there's this sense of separation. And the reality is we're all going through this human shit together, but we can share our experiences. We can share our truths.

We can share our voices. And if we do that, I think we have an opportunity to evolve in the same direction. Love it. Feels like a good place for us to come full circle as well. So sitting in this container of the Good Life Project, if I offer up this phrase, to live a good life, what comes up? Moment to moment, trying to be connected to whoever and wherever I am and being compassionate and having empathy for other people, knowing that their experiences aren't necessarily my experiences. And there are things that I can learn and things that I can teach

with every person that I come across. Thank you. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment

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If there's something that you've heard in this episode that you would love to turn into a conversation, share it with people and have that conversation. Because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die.

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