Good Life Project - Ione Butler | Lift People Up

Episode Date: December 10, 2020

Ione is a British film, television and voiceover actress based in LA with many different credits including Marvel’s Black Widow, a leading role in a motion picture which premiered on the Syfy network, as well as guest-starring in hit TV shows on CBS, Spike TV, TLC, BBC and many others. Growing up biracial in West London’s Southall neighborhood, which has been known to many as little Punjab or Little India since the 60s, she was surrounded by different cultures, developed an early curiosity for people and community, and a passion for acting that led her to the iconic Brit School of Performing Arts. Eventually heading to LA to build her career in the business, she became increasingly called to both create her own roles, focus on producing positive media, and take control of her career, founding Uplifting Content, a social media platform followed by over 1.4 million people, hosting the Uplifting Content Podcast and most recently writing the book, Uplifting Stories (https://tinyurl.com/y39e7ju6). We also explore what it’s like to navigate the world of entertainment and act on the impulse to put positive, optimistic ideas, media and offerings into the world at a time it needs it more than ever, but also when we, personally, may be carrying a lot of weight. You can find Ione Butler at:Website : https://ionebutler.com/Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/ionebutler/-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My guest today, Ione Butler, is a British film, television, and voiceover actress based in LA with a lot of different credits, including Marvel's Black Widow, a leading role in a motion picture which premiered on the SyFy network, as well as guest starring in hit TV shows on CBS, Spike, TLC, BBC, and others. Growing up biracial in West London's Southall neighborhood, which has been known for a long time as Little Punjab or Little India since the 60s, really, she was surrounded by different cultures and developed this sort of early curiosity for people and relation and community. And along with that, a passion for acting that led her to the iconic Brit School of

Performing Arts. Eventually heading to LA as an adult to build her career in the business, she became increasingly called to really both create her own roles and focus on producing positive media and also take control of her career, founding Uplifting Content, a social media platform followed by over 1.4 million people, hosting the Uplifting Content podcast, and most recently, writing the book Uplifting Stories. So we dive into all of this, and we also explore what it's like to navigate the world of entertainment and act on the impulse to put positive, optimistic ideas, media, and offerings into the world at a time where the world needs it more than ever, but also when we personally may be carrying the weight of a lot. So excited to share this conversation with you.

I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. We'll be right back. swimming or sleeping and it's the fastest charging apple watch getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes the apple watch series 10 available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum compared to previous generations iphone 10s are later required charge time and actual results will vary mayday mayday we've been compromised the pilot's a hitman i know you're gonna be fun on january 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die.

Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. Really excited to dive in with you. I'm kind of fascinated. Before we got online, you were talking about how you were about to bounce out to Big Bear. And I know that you grew up in South West London. But when you look at sort of your Instagram, you're in Yosemite. You're in Joshua Tree.

You're in Tahoe. And it got me really curious, you know, because I'm somebody who's lived in the city pretty much my entire life. But I am passionate about the outdoors. I love it. And it seems like that is a huge part of you as well. Oh yeah. It's part of my therapy. I think being out in nature is very healing for me. And as much as I love living in LA, I've been here for eight years now. And I always noticed that I would start to get a little bit antsy every month if I didn't leave. Because as much as it's a big city, you know, I'm just I feel like it's a bubble, I'm driving around the same areas. And there's a lot of people. And so sometimes I just need to

get out and be in nature just to reset and breathe and connect again. And so it's been interesting this year, because typically typically I'll be jet setting off somewhere. This is the first year that I haven't been to seven different countries, which has been great because it's allowed me to be still and save money, which has been really great. But when things started to open up, I did need to get out again. And so we've been taking little road trips here and there and national parks. And it's been a blessing. My boyfriend actually is from New York too.

He moved here. We were neighbors. We've been neighbors for years. And then over quarantine, started dating. And luckily, he loves to travel too. So he's been all about the road trips and it's worked out really well. Oh, that's awesome. We made it work.

Right. And during quarantine, you're like, you know what? This needs to last at least until we're out of this. I can't meet any strangers on a dating app, so you'll do. Right, right. That's too funny. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because I've been really curious about how people have sort of found ways to touch stone, to like get back into themselves during the course of this year. And people have found a lot of different ways, but the ability to access nature is just so,

so powerful. There's something incredibly just grounding about it, at least for me. I mean, and I felt that since I was a kid. Yeah. Well, I just think we live in this world where we, you know, it's technology and stuff and work and stress and you know people and all these things and then I think just being in nature takes me back to not that none of it matters but it's just there is more to our existence than the busyness of our lives and nature just being still in nature is I just love it and especially when things are beautiful uh yeah like Tahoe is just magical i just it just washes all over me brings me just a nice sense of calm the other thing that tends to happen to me um i don't know if you've ever seen any of the research on awe um but no but it's like god to me i'm like this is god yeah

and the same thing it's sort of like um one of the things that creates this awe which is sort of like this experience that breaks your current mental model of the world and forces you to kind of like reassemble it slightly differently, is when you're exposed to just breathtaking natural phenomena. And places like, all the places that you have sort of like said, like, these are my go-to places. They're the places where, I mean, you drive into Yosemite Valley. Oh, yeah. And you see El Cap on the left. And in a heartbeat, you realize how small you are in the context of this planet. Yes. Yes. And how magnificent it is in all its glory. I've been in the States for a while and

just with the whole political climate and everything, it just makes me sad. It's just not the things that are going on. I'm like, this isn't where I want to call home. But then I've been driving to all these places and I'm like, oh, there is still beauty here. And there is still this, there's so much, there's still so many great things about it in spite of all the kind of madness that's happening. But we had like a tour guide app

as we were driving around Yosemite and they were explaining, I think it was, they were coming to like find Native Americans or something like that. There'd been some conflict and they were coming to capture them. But when they got there, they were just so blown away because no one had seen it before that one guy, jaw was on the floor and they had to be like, we need to get you away before we get captured. So just, you know, it does, it's breathtaking.

It stops you in your tracks. Yeah, it's really incredible. So let's take a little bit of a jump back in time um you grew up in um part of west london which i guess a lot of people really know as it's got like a huge punjab indian um population a lot of people call it little india good curry right it's like how do you leave that and find curry has no idea what a curry is. I realized that a long time ago. Although I found a vegan Indian place in Culver City and their flavors are good.

I appreciate that one. But up until that point, one place I'd gone to, a friend had recommended it. And one of the dishes just tastes like it had marinara sauce in it. I was like, marinara sauce is not Indian. What is that? But sorry, Yeah, definitely like the curry. There are certain things you just don't mess with. Like you can't put marinara sauce in curry. It's like, it's like when they're like breaking some sort of like, you know, time-space continuum. So tell me, I'm curious what it was like growing up in that,

in that kind of neighborhood. It's interesting because it was all I ever knew. I was raised in one place until I was 18 and I went to drama school and I moved away for drama school. So I'd only ever known that. What was fun was everyone was a mix. White people were the minority in Southall. It was Indian and Pakistani and then black and then white. And so it was very diverse, which was nice. And so I enjoyed it for that. One thing that I struggled with is because a lot of my friends' parents were very strict. A lot of them either had Muslim parents or strict Indian parents. So a lot of my friends weren't allowed to go out. And so it was quite lonely. It would be school and then there would be sort

of nothing else to do after that. And I had a few sad lonely uh holidays where I just was just sat on my own baking cookies that was that was one very sad Easter break I remember I just ate a lot of cookies but uh but yeah so it was it was it was all I ever knew and we would travel a lot my mom was a travel agent uh when I was growing up so I've always been here there and everywhere so uh we would be away a lot she gave me the bug. Yeah. That's a nice bug to get when you're young. I mean, it's interesting because I have talked to a number of friends who grew up in the States here and friends who are biracial, especially who grew up in the States here would almost to the one sort of like share stories

about, especially when they were kids. I think a lot of them sort of like start to figure out how to be in the world a little bit differently as adults. But as kids, this feeling of being other, of not quite fitting in, in any one particular group or even with themselves and any one particular identity. But it was always in this country, it was almost always in the context of like a larger white culture. So it's interesting to me that, you know, like here are you with a white mom, Bahamian dad in the broader culture of not, not like a predominantly white culture, but Indian and Pakistani. And I'm wondering if in that, if you felt any of that also. You know, I, I feel really lucky to have been raised in that environment because I, I never

felt, I never felt other in school, in places like that, in Southall, as diverse as it was. Because I was raised by my white mom in England and had all my family in England were white, I was literally the black sheep of the family. When we would go to places that were sort of out of the city in the country, then I would feel other and I would feel different. And so that was, that was odd. But then being back in Southall, it's just, there's just color everywhere. So then it was never a thing. One thing that I always thought was odd was that Indian and Pakistani, because there's a lot of conflict between the countries, like they would be using racial slurs against each other. And it was something that I always thought, you know,

you know what it's like to experience racism from people. Why are you dishing it out to each other? I always thought that was a little bit odd, but I never felt anything directed towards me. And then moving to the US, I felt that it was really interesting as a mixed race person. There doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement of mixed race. It's just you are black. You know, that's you're black because you have brown skin you're black and and I guess it it goes back to the the black drop rule and um my take on that is you know I don't abide by slave terminology you know I have a white parent and a black parent I'm mixed race and so that was something that was interesting it doesn't it doesn't bother me I just thought that it was interesting that you know there doesn't seem to be an acknowledgement of somebody who has parents of different races. And I think the reason that I think it is important

just to not make assumptions is because somebody might look at me and go, you're black, and then have a completely different idea of what my upbringing is or was. And people can think what they like. But I just think that it's nice to get to know somebody without putting labels on them. And so that's why it would be great if we could acknowledge people who are different races. And I think it's kind of cool. Like it's nice to be able to say my mom's English, my dad's from the Bahamas, you know, it's. Yeah. I mean, I think it's so interesting, right? Because on the one hand, when you sort of like try and put somebody in a sort of like a quote identity box, there's almost like two different

lenses on that. One is you're doing that so you can understand how they're different from you, um, which can need to be a wonderful thing. Like how cool is that, that you have grown up with profoundly different life experiences to tell me more, like, I really want to know you. I want to know your life. I want to know how it's been different than mine because like we can learn about each other. It's amazing. And then let's figure out how we're the same. But then the other, the other box is, you know, like I want to put you in this identity box so that I can keep you different from me, you know? And, and I think too often we default to the latter. Um, and I think also there's, you know, if we could just focus so much on, like you said, acknowledge how we're

different and then also like dance with how we're the same and then just blend that all into one big conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it sounds like, um, that, that acting bug bit you pretty young too. Yeah, that was a funny one. Um, I'd done school plays when I was young and that was, I just loved it. I was, uh, the artful Dodger in Oliver, this like cheeky, cheeky thing. That was kind of like my first taste of school plays. But I remember making the decision when I was about 13 and it was, I want to be famous. And it was really sad because I think what it was, was I felt very lonely and I felt like I didn't have sort of close friends. And I remember the wanting to be famous was this thing of people knowing me and liking me and loving me.

I think that was what it was, this idea that maybe famous people have better lives. You know, I kind of know a bit more about it now. At the time, my stepfather was the photographer for the Backstreet Boys for years. They were like the biggest boy band at the time. And so I would go off and be on tour with them and backstage. And I was just, you know, this, oh, wow, fame, you know? And so I remember making the decision for acting because I wanted to be wanted or seen, I guess. And then I started to delve into it. And first of all, it was singing. My singing isn't anywhere near good enough to be a pop star. So I gave up on that pretty quick. And dancing,

I can dance all right, but not the best. But acting definitely was something that I resonated with. And I went to an amazing drama school in the UK called the Brit School and people like Adele and Amy Winehouse and all sorts of amazing people have come out of that school and it was the first time in my life at 16 that I was I did I performed well at school like I did well uh academically but I didn't like it I didn't like being told what to do I thought it was all boring and completely pointless but this was the first time in my life that I was doing something that I loved with, you know, my people with, you know, the musical theater people, it was incredible. And so I did musical theater and we worked on singing, dancing and acting and acting was the place where

I felt I could, I could jam. And I remember doing one exercise where you take an emotion from the, the, the basic, you know, the essence of it, and then you heighten it. And I think doing one exercise where you take an emotion from the basic, you know, the essence of it and then you heighten it. And I think mine was fear. And I did this exercise and I went from like no, no fear to like absolutely petrified. And it really it really affected the people in the class. People watching were kind of traumatized by my, you know, doing this exercise. And that was the first time I realized the power of acting and how you can change or how you can evoke feelings in people through a performance. And I also just like being in it when I'm acting and I'm in a character and all of that noise, normal head noise goes away and you're just kind of in this new thing. I just love it for that. So yeah, that's been my passion ever since.

And it's so interesting that the thing that originally brought it, brought you to it was almost a sense of loneliness and assuming that fame would, would take, make that go away. Right. And yet that the thing that kept you in it for a long time was it sounds like just the way it made you feel and also the way that you realized you doing it could make other feel or invite people into a feeling almost collectively. Yeah, it's powerful and it's fun. And I took a little bit of a gap, some time off acting in 2016 when I started uplifting content and um I went traveling too I did like three months around South America where I had people from the audience tell me where to go and things to do that was really fun and I traveled for a couple of years after that and did up uh

uplifting content stuff but there was always this calling back to acting it's always there you know and every time I try to drop it it's there and it And it is. It's that. It's the being in it. It's the impact that you can have. And then it's also the collaboration, being on set. It reminded me back in the day when I was in Oliver, the first school play. And we were all kind of like hanging out backstage. And it's all dark. And everyone's like, ooh, about to go on.

And it's just the magic of it. Yeah, it's incredible. Have you ever performed? You do speaking. Right. I speak a fair amount. And, it's incredible. Have you ever performed? You do speaking. Right. I speak a fair amount, you know, and I'm, I'm super comfortable. You can put me on a stage in front of 5,000 people and I'm, I'm fine. I'm also very introverted. So as soon as I'm done,

you know, I have friends that are raging extroverts and all they want to do when they're done is just, you know, like sit down on the stage and work the audience and answer questions for hours and hours until they get thrown out of the theater. And for me, when I'm done, I'm kind of like, okay, that was awesome. Where's the backstage edit that takes me out where I don't see any people. I'm just walking quietly on my own for an hour because as much as I love it, the experience of it leaves me empty and I need solitude to kind of refill. Whereas other people, they're done with it. And all, you know, I have very close friends where they're just,

they want more and more and more. And being in solitude is what actually empties them out. I'm actually, I'm curious where you fall on there. You know, it's a great question because I'd interviewed someone for my podcast who does a lot of stuff in, she talks about that introverts and extroverts. And I think she explained that I'm an amnivert, which is I do get my charge from being around people. But there's some like large group environments where I freak out and I just need to be away. And so, yeah, I think I lean more extroverted, but there's definitely group situations

where I just want to run and hide and be on my own. But I think it's so fascinating. Wasn't there a really great, I think there was a really great TED talk about that, you know, how for introverts, how sometimes they get just kind of steamed over by extroverts. They've got all these ideas, but you have to be willing to kind of give them the space to just, you know, do it or say it or whatever. Whereas extroverts can be the ones that just, you know, I have to be mindful of myself not to steamroll through and let other people be. Yeah, I completely agree. And the TED talk was actually a friend of mine, Susan Cain, who wrote the book Quiet. Amazing.

And yeah, I remember reading that book and thinking to myself, you are in my head. Yeah. I was like, this is my life. I need to get 10 copies and give it to everybody to just sort of explain how I am in the world. And I think a lot of, you know, when that book came out, actually, because I remember Susan telling me something like a third of the world identify strongly as introverts. And, but society is built around the aspiration to be an extrovert. So you're, you're, you either assume or you're told, or like the structures of work make you feel like you're broken or wrong

when you just do the thing you naturally do if you're an introvert. And the book was like this thing that made you say, no, you're actually amazing the way you are. In fact, there are incredible benefits to that orientation. So embrace it. We just need to have a better understanding of how we all operate. Yeah, for sure. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised.

The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him.

Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple

Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. I'm curious about this, the linkage that you had between fame and um loneliness when you started acting it sounds like acting became this thing where eventually it actually gave you what you wanted but um whatever level of fame would accompany that you know was long off for you did you start to make an association at some point that, well, well, I actually feel better, but it wasn't about fame. It was just about belonging or being around people who sort of like were more like me.

I think that, uh, when I was, uh, in my mid twenties, I started really getting into personal development and I'd already, I had had depression a lot when I was younger. And a lot of that came from loneliness. I used to say that I was a lonely child. That's what I thought you were when you were just one, you didn't have any siblings, a lonely child. It's only, I never knew that until a couple of years ago. So I was raised on my own, single mom that was working. And then, you know, in an environment where I didn't really have many friends to go out and do stuff. And so I was very much in my head and had a lot of depression growing up. And then mid-20s, I started getting into personal development and understanding my... I got to grips with my

thoughts and I was realizing how destructive and damaging my thoughts were and the things I was saying. So I mean, I would beat myself up. And so I think that back in the day, this idea that being famous would somehow make people love me and care and be interested. I think that was a story based on my understanding and then moving to LA to pursue acting. It was, I was, I was growing, uh, with my personal development and kind of waking up to stuff. And so I think that shifted. I think that was the thing that made me think fame isn't the answer. And it became less about acting to be famous and accepted and more about acting because I just love the experience of doing it.

And I realized that that's what it was. And also I'd had a little bit of fame as I had this kind of nice brush with fame being part of this game for years. I got this job when I first came to LA for this game called Ingress. And it's the same company that make Pokemon Go and that they've got like a Harry Potter game out now. But before Pokemon Go that went crazy, Ingress was the big game. And I was sort of like a character in it. I had a show that would talk about what was happening in the game. And it went out to like the thousands of players. And they would have these events where 5,000 people would descend in

a city and play the game. And I would run around and interview people and announce the winner at the end to these big stadiums full of people, people basically I felt like a rock star it was awesome and I remember once in Hong Kong I was um they flew me to Hong Kong and uh the space that they had for the after for the after thing wasn't big enough so they only had like 2,000 people in the thing and I was signing autographs because I'm I'm like your colleagues after talks like I would want to sign autographs so it's like it's so cool and it's probably harping back to the people love me thing but I would want to sign all the autograph I was like, it's so cool. And it's probably harping back to the people love me thing, but I would want to sign all the autographs. And I remember being there and everyone, we had a big group picture

and I got swamped by people pretty much. But it was in Hong Kong, so they were very respectful and nice about it. And then they had to try and sneak me out because we didn't know how to get out. So I'd gone in an instant from being this huge star and then they snuck me out the back door and I just walked out the back door

and I was on the street. No one had a clue I was nobody and it was just this real I was so glad that I had that experience to be like fame is nothing it's it all it is is what people put on you it's not a tangible thing like it's just such a I don't even know how to describe it but it was just so funny to go from that you know everybody is everybody is all about, you know, Susanna Moyer and me, whatever. And then I leave and I'm just, who are you? You're just a girl walking down the street. I'm glad that I had that experience. And, and so then, you know, and then I, so that was kind of the most famous, I guess I've been, I have people recognize me for some other things now and again, but it's, I didn't get that superstardom fame.

And so I obviously had to find peace and happiness in other ways. And that came from the personal development stuff too. It was a journey. Yeah. Right. For all of us. I mean, it's funny. I often would wonder, in New York, there are a lot of celebrities that live in New York City, but as a general rule, even if you recognize them walking down the street, which happens would wonder, you know, in New York, there are a lot of celebrities that live in New York City. But as a general rule, even if you recognize them walking down the street, which happens on a pretty regular basis, the ethos is New York is you just like you just you pretend you don't, you know, you just keep moving by you're standing next to you, you know, like an A-list movie star ordering locks at the deli or whatever it is. And they're right next to you and you're like stuffing it in their face with their hands. And it's just like, well, you're just New Yorkers. And I often wondered whether a lot of people in the entertainment industry or professional

athletes and stuff like that ended up living in New York City because it is this weird phenomenon where it's a city where you can just kind of still go outside and do your thing. And as a general rule, you're just kind of like among everybody and do your thing. And as a general rule, you're just kind of like among everybody else who's there. You know, it's interesting when you think about social media right now and fame, you know, there's this incredible push to be, you know, people want to be famous just for being famous. And I remember reading a study, I think it was about two, three years ago, where a whole bunch of people were asked, would you rather be J-Lo's personal assistant or the president of Harvard? And there were a whole bunch of other people that they could have

opted between those, but those were the two under the spectrum. And people almost invariably, and this was, they interviewed people in their late teens, early 20s, almost to the one, they said J-Lo's assistant. Number two under J-Lo was Jesus. So they would rather be J-Lo's assistant than Jesus. Just something so perverse about that. by this phenomenon of fame for fame's sake and how it's kind of rewiring people to aspire to something that I just, I get really concerned that it leaves them so much emptier than they began. Totally. And I, cause I feel like I was an early version of that before, before. And I think it's, I think now it's even worse, I suppose, because people are seeing how famous

people can get from just having an Instagram account or just doing outrageous things or whatever people are doing. And I guess they're like, oh, that looks like a good life choice or a good career. But I definitely think that it will leave people empty. I mean, I really struggle because Uplifting Content is a social media platform. And I really am not into social media anymore. And I'm sort of trying to find that balance between having this platform and putting out nice uplifting messages, but also not wanting to spend my time doing it. I've been going back and forth with that for a couple of years now. How do I see myself with social media? And then again, it's just the impact that it has. I don't scroll through it very much

anymore. I've managed to stop myself doing that because I just found that it would make me feel that I would compare myself to other people or, you know, and then sometimes the whole idea of posting something and thinking, how is this going to get the likes? Is this going to be a good caption? You know, just the thought that goes into it to try and maximize the, I just don't like it. I really don't like it. I'm raising my hand along with you. I have a, it's not even a love hate relationship with it. It's just like a dislike hate relationship. But at the same time, I also know that it, that it is, you know, like in its essence, it's neutral. It's a platform that can be used for good, for evil, and for everything in between. And the way that we choose to interact with it, you know, determines which end of that spectrum that we land on both personally when we're creating and using it for distribution interaction and also when we're just consuming there. And yet the, you know, underneath the hood

of every platform are a couple thousand developers, you know, like working to figure out how to make it as irresistible and output-downable as humanly possible. So, but at the same time, amazing things can happen because of the way that people leverage it. So I think it is, it's a really interesting dance that I think we're all trying to figure out these days. Yeah, and I think I've gone the other way now with the fame in that I just, I like my privacy. You know, I feel like I've just, I've only been on the side of the spectrum now

where I post occasionally, but I've got someone that helps me with social media. It's like, you need to be posting more personal things. I was like, I don't want everybody to know what I'm doing. I like this to keep to myself. So I've yeah i mean change but you're right it is new yeah and actually i want to get into uplifting content but even before then you know it's interesting with that frame that you just shared um because while you started a lot of your work started sort of like you know like on stages and before screens you fairly quickly also um not transition but like a solid chunk of your

work became audio work, you know, and your audio book narration and just voice based acting, which is this really fascinating transition to me because you get to have that same expressive experience. You know, you get to know that you're affecting people. You get to sort of like move yourself into the process. And yet it's a way for you to sort of be a bit more invisible when you're out in public too. It's true.

It's true. Yeah. I'm a lot more picky with my, with my on-camera stuff than I am voiceover because I'm like, well, you know, it's me. Not everyone's going to know it's me. But yeah. Oh, I had a quick question for you with being an introvert. And was it difficult to, now you're comfortable on stage, was it difficult getting into speaking?

How was that process for you? Yeah, you know, for me, it's a really gradual evolution. You know, just starting, I actually, probably the beginning of me as a speaker was actually as a teacher first. I owned a yoga studio that we opened in the shadow of 9-11 in New York City and I taught for seven years. So I was just out on the floor, like wearing essentially pajamas, bare feet and a t-shirt in a room packed with people mat to mat for 90 minutes, sometimes a couple of times a day all week long. And I think that became a bit of a laboratory for me, because I owned the facility, I created the culture, I created the container, and then I

invited everybody in and they sort of like turned it into something extraordinary. I became one of many teachers who were just beautiful, beautiful human beings. But that to me was probably a proving ground and a place where I just tested and tested and tried a lot of different things. And then over time, I think when I started to step out of that and into a different space, it gave me a certain amount of confidence. So I still would still get nervous and I don't get all that nervous these days unless it's an audience that I really know I'm not them and it's really really big and in a venue where it's not my normal venue I would imagine it's similar to a certain extent with acting and like different stages or theaters and things like that

yeah it can be I am beginning of the year i got a tiny role don't even know if i'll be in it make the final cut but in um black widow the marvel movie and i just remember being like you have to be cool you have to be cool like don't freak out and um i got there and it was actually fine i was really impressed with how fine i was because i'd done another a few years ago I was in CSI Cyber and I did my scene with Patricia Arquette just when she'd got her Oscar, like a few months prior. And, um, I remember being very nervous for that and I had a very emotional scene and I think I just, I just wasn't happy with how I did. And so, um, yeah, it's when it's, you know, out of an environment that I'm

used to, uh, I, I do get a little bit nervous, but I meditated on it and I was, I felt good this time. So. Yeah. Tell me more about, um, I know you shared that you're, you really start to explore personal development and spirituality. Um, I know, so you ended up launching, I guess, uplifting content kind of started, it seems like as let's talk about it. You know, this started as a podcast back in 2015 ish, something like that. And it was interesting because if you go all the way back, you know, like sort of like into the archives, you see you interviewing a whole lot of people. And then there's like this season, I don't know, it feels like maybe a year or two in where you start to

take the mic a lot. And you're just like, there's something on my mind that I need to actually talk about. And it felt like that lasted, I don't know, three, six months or something like that, where you were just regularly in there saying, okay, this is what's on my mind. I'm curious what was going on then. Yeah. So Prince EA is this really amazing influencer guy. He does spoken word stuff and he's just an incredible human being. And it was about 2015. I had auditioned for a video of his and met him on set and I just, just blown away by everything that he does. And I just remember saying, you're doing everything that I want to do. You know, you're creating stuff that has such a powerful message and you're doing in such a delivering it in such a beautiful way and um we stayed in touch and he was really um supportive of me um I'd I think I'd started doing

the podcast before I met him and uh and then I was also videoing them as well because I was listening to podcasts a lot and I like the idea of making videos but I like the the fact that podcasts can be longer and you can have a conversation like not everybody has the patience to sit and watch a video for an hour but they'll listen to a podcast on a drive, for example. And so I just happened to film them and was speaking. And so they started off like that, just me, let's talk about, you know, whatever. And then I started interviewing people as and when. And he had actually shared one of the videos that I'd done about depression and it went viral and it really resonated with a lot of people.

It was about my experience and some of the things that I've done to help me deal with it in the past and overcome it when I'm in a really low place. And so, yeah, that kind of began the thing. And then with the podcast, it was weird. I've been doing it. I haven't done it this year. I put a hold on it. But I did it all consistently, interviewing people. I haven't done it this year. I put a hold on it, but I did it all consistently interviewing people pretty much 2019. I was consistent. That was really fun.

But then there'll be just sometimes where I find a topic. I just want to go off and talk about myself, just sort of my experience. And so I think I did stuff on suicide prevention week or just whatever's on my mind. And if I haven't got hold of a guest, then I'm like, let me just have a little chat with you for now. So, yeah. And so I think what it was, was me experimenting between, you know, making videos or doing a podcast. And so it was a bit of like, I'm inspired to make a video and then I'll use the audio for the podcast. I think that was what happened. And again, like I, I really like making videos. Um, but there's just something about the consistent, I don't know the pressure of it with the podcast.

It was easy to be consistent and interview people, but I don't always have the inspiration to say anything. And so I, sometimes I would do it and then sometimes I wouldn't. And so I, I'm not the best, you know, YouTuber influencer with. I don't have the consistency. So it was obviously just whenever I was inspired to say something, that was when those ones were happening. Yeah. I mean, I was curious. So it's funny. We've been producing and I've been hosting this podcast, Good Life Project, for I guess we started Good Life Project in 2012.

But I still consider myself probably first and foremost a writer. And I very often, I'm in my head a lot. And I think I know what I think about a topic a lot. And then I realized that I literally, you know, like I'm just finishing off a book right now. And I really thought I understood what I thought about this particular topic. And then I started writing about it. And I'm like, oh, no. Like I wasn't anywhere close. It isn't very often. It isn't until I write that I really understand what I

think about a thing. And what I was curious about when I started to see you just sort of like sitting behind a mic and sort of like talking through these things was I was, I was like, I'm wondering is audio maybe your sense-making channel? 100%, 100%. I struggle so hard with writing. So writing the book was really tough for me. I had help with it and I found that difficult with help. But speaking is my method of communication. It's a lot easier for me to,

and especially when I'm in sort of flow with just, you know, things come out and I'm like, that's what I meant. Writing, I get stuck, you know, I'm stuck on the point, can't quite figure out how to write it down. And so when I was dabbling in speaking too, I found that very difficult. You know, there was the writing out a speech and then having to kind of learn it, but that didn't feel very right. And then I found the best way would just have sort of headers and things that I would touch on. And then I can just, I know what I want to say. And then I just say it from there. So that worked better for me, but yeah, it's definitely speaking as my jam. Yeah. It was interesting. Cause it,

you could almost hear it like in your voice, you're sort of like, you're explaining to yourself how you feel about this thing until you get to a point where you're like, Oh, I think I've got it. And then it was like, okay, I'm good. But like the audience would follow you along, you know, sort of like, okay, I think we've all got it now, actually. So it's really, because for me as somebody who's like goes through that process, but you know, with the written work, it's interesting to just see how other people get to that similar place and what the mechanisms are. Yeah. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era,

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January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. So what starts out kind of as videos and then a podcast, it turns eventually into this thing called uplifting content, which is really a platform, you know.

And now a book. What makes you want to say, okay, like I need to turn this into something bigger? Well, it was getting to know Prince EA and just seeing the impact that he was having with his stuff. And it was a time where I was starting to feel like I'd hit a wall with acting things. Like I wasn't progressing in a way that I wanted to progress. I just felt a little bit frustrated with it. And I also like this idea of just being able to take responsibility for something and create something rather than waiting for people to cast me in a project or give me a job. I was like, you've got the resources, just make something. And so, yeah, it went through all

these different phases of what it would be. Originally, it was like a production company producing, you know, this videos in a sort of similar style to what he did. But I was very new to it. I didn't have the resources or the know-how at the time. And then it became like a hub of inspiration where I would curate videos and articles and things from other people so that, you know, at the time, I think people were just tired of all the noise and the stressful things that were being shared on Facebook. And so we got a lot of comments, just people being really grateful just to have a nice page full of uplifting content for them. And so that sort of, it stayed in that lane. It's been in that lane for a while. And then the idea for the book came about, again, I'm always going back and forth with social media,

like, how do I feel about it? You know, I've got this platform. I don't want people to be sat on my Facebook page every day. You know, I want them to be living their best lives or connecting with people or whatever. So I was like, I don't want to make it all about social media. And then the idea for the book came around last year. And the whole point from the platform really was when I had dealt with depression previously, I hated it. I hated feeling that way and, you know, not wanting to get out of bed and just feeling so low. And I would always try to find things to watch or read or listen to that would kind of pull me out of that and just, you know, just shift my thinking to a more constructive, positive way. And it was hard to find uplifting content.

So the idea of the platform was, you know, a page full of stuff that people can learn from or be inspired by or, you know, feel good, feel good stuff. And with the book too, there's so many, it's so stressful right now. There's a lot of things that are going on that are very stressful and it makes you question what's happening with the world. And, you are awful there's all these horrible things and that's what media had done it was starting to make me feel hopeless and sad and depressed but i don't want to succumb to that because i know that there are thousands millions of people incredible human beings doing wonderful things every day we just have a really unbalanced uh news media is unbalanced we're not hearing any of

those stories and so the platform in the book is pretty much for my own well-being too of just you know let's let's pay attention to some incredible people and amazing things that happening and and let that uh lift you up and inspire you and motivate you yeah i mean it's um i think so often we create what we need ourselves, put it out into the world, right? It's why, it's why most therapists are therapists because they really need it there. I'm like, wow, this stuff works. Awesome. I want to share it with the world. Um, you know, it's interesting that, um, you know, you share how you, you have sort of like woven in and out of

various levels of depression over the years. I know it was just a couple of months ago. Um, you shared on Instagram, you're like, Hey, listen, these months have been really, really hard for me. Had a huge crash in confidence that made it very tough to promote your work. Um, when you're feeling that way about yourself and that you're for sure, you're not the only one who was feeling that way this year or has felt that way and so many different times over the years. And yet so often when we feel that way, it's really tough to just feel that way in the first place.

And then when we sort of realize how we feel, we shame ourselves from, for feeling that way and not being able to just like buck up and pull out of it and go do the work. Especially when we start to feel that way, right around the time when we're in theory supposed to be going out there and being very forward facing and promoting and launching, you know, whatever it may be, whether it's a new project or a book or a movie or an album or just you and your job or like a local, whatever it may be, whether it's a new project or a book or a movie or an album or just you and your job or like a local, whatever it is. I'm curious how, I want to dip into the, some of the stories from the book, cause there's some really beautiful stories, but I'm curious how sort of like in this season, just for you, when you're feeling that on a personal level,

but you've got something you believe so deeply in that you want to bring to the world. Like how do you navigate sort of like that tension? It was really horrible. It was a really, I still kind of don't feel, I feel like I'd let myself down in a way with it. So I still feel a little bit like, ugh, about that. But one of the things that I've learned is that, you know, just get out of like, you know, yelling at myself, beating myself up emotionally has never helped. And for some people it does. Some people can give themselves a stern talking to and just buck up and do it. You know, I kind of think of people like

Tony Robbins and stuff. There's like all of those, like, go get it. You know, I'm not that person. I'm not that person. And other people aren't that person. And I, I practice kindness, you know, being kind to myself, just making the effort to do what I could. And then another thing that I felt was that I'd kind of told myself that the book needed to be, you know, a New York Times bestseller right out the gate. And then I was because it wasn't going to be then I was backing away from doing things because I didn't feel good about it. Because I thought I was a failure. And the realization that this is something that that can benefit people forever, it doesn't need to be, you know, a New York Times bestseller right out the gate. And that kind of

took I put so much pressure on myself, and I'm sure other people do too. No one was there saying anything to me about what I was doing, but it was me. I make it so hard for myself and then I freak out. So yeah, it wasn't a fun experience, but I feel better about it now. And I'm just sort of making it more of a long-term project rather than the stress of making everything doing everything in a week yeah i said i was talking to somebody recently who was sort of like uh um actually was tall ben jahar who's sort of like one of the um senior people in the world of positive psychology and he was kind of saying like one of the ways to get happier is to just lower your expectations yeah you know but he's like, actually, there's research around that,

that it's not about giving up. It's not about being complacent, but it's about, you know, when you just sort of like lower your expectations and saying like, when you can get to a place where good enough is good enough, like that is something

where you can more consistently hit it and feel better about yourself and doing that. And it creates this upward spiral. Totally. I remember being with acting when I was like, you need to be an Oscar winner again, like giving myself all these, I must achieve this. And then I wasn't getting there as an actress. I was devastated. I just felt like such a failure. And now I've changed it to anytime I get to act is, is the gift is the, you know, I'm acting

because I love acting. That's what it's all about. I've got enough things going on to keep me financially stable. So now I can do this because I love it. So, and I feel way better and I, I feel much better about acting because of that. So yeah, I think that's a great point. Yeah. I mean, it's the reframe, right? It's sort of like, okay, so if my circumstances are the same, but I changed the questions I'm asking about it or the way I see it, it just totally changes the way that you are around it, the way you experience it, which is great to do also when you're in the middle of something where you really don't have control over the circumstances, like publishing a book during a pandemic. Yeah, exactly.

Let's talk a little bit more about the book, right? It's sort of like split into a bunch of different categories, human connection, acts of service, passion, purpose, game changers, things like that. But it's really story driven, which I love because what it really to, you know, as human beings, we love stories there. We touched down on a couple of stories because there are a few that there's probably some that, you know, you can never say you're, you have favorites as an author because I would never ask you like, what's your favorite, your favorite first people ask me that all the time about the podcast. Like, who's your favorite guest? I'm like, Hey, I will never answer that. But B I don't like, it doesn't work that way. No, I was going to say, I don't, I don't think I have a favorite podcast episode.

And I honestly don't think I have a favorite story because I loved speaking to everybody with them. I was so moved by the stories that I got. Like, yeah, it's, and then depending on my mood or what I'm thinking of in a given day will be the one that I mentioned to somebody, you know, what they're going through. Oh, you need to read that story, you know? Yeah. It's sort of like they speak to a different thing. The story of Denise Sandoval,

I don't know if I'm pronouncing her first name right. Can you share some of that story? Because I thought it was really interesting. Yeah. She's an incredible woman. She moved to San Francisco and adopted a child. So her family's very multiracial. And she was driving around one of the really poor areas in San Francisco and was just shocked by how much poverty there was. And the taxi driver turned to her and said, you know, welcome to the land of broken dreams. And she was just horrified by it. And one of the things that really stuck out to me from the interview was that she said, nobody, no, when they were growing up, nobody really thought nobody wanted this for the, for their lives. You know, we all have hopes and dreams and this isn't anyone's dream. And it really resonated with her because her daughter was adopted from the system. And she's like,

you know, that could have been the life for my, my daughter. And so she created this, um, company called Lava May, where they converted a bunch of old city buses that for whatever reason that the government were giving away or scrapping these city buses. She took them and converted them into mobile showers and has this company where she's driving around to homeless places and allowing people to take showers in these really gorgeous bathrooms. And the idea behind it is just giving people their dignity back because she's like, now, how can you, how can you go and get a job or apply for a job or just feel good about yourself when you're not clean? And so, yeah, that was sort of the idea of it. And it's, it's kind of growing from there. And she, she'll do sort of like events with other non-profits. We'll work together and go and service people in these areas.

And I struggle with there's so much homelessness in LA. And it really gets to me that I just, you know, it's weird. Like I'll see people running around in the street trying to catch a dog, you know, like a dog's loose and everybody rallies to take care of the dog. And then there's like hundreds of people like looking like they're dead on the floor on the street in LA and you don't do anything. And it's just like, oh, you know, what, what is that? And so she's just an amazing woman who is doing something and is meeting people where they're at and, and, and helping. And at the end of every story in the book, there's like an exercise or a call to action.

And her one is just to, you know, when you see someone on the street, just to acknowledge them, say hi, smile. She'd had one woman that she passed her in the street and said hello. And the woman was shocked. She was like, I can't believe you see me. No one's seen me. No one's seen or acknowledged me in a week. The first person to acknowledge me and just, you know, giving people their dignity back just by acknowledging them. You know, it's something we can do very easily. I mean, it's such a beautiful story. And that point that you're making also about when you're homeless or living with homelessness,

you literally don't exist to so many other people. I remember years back, I was in a community, a guy named Mark Horvath started something called Invisible People, where he was homeless and he experienced that. And he was like, I can do something about it. So he started taking these little videos of people who are homeless and just posting them online just to let people know that these are human beings who have stories. One of the things I also really loved about Jan Denise's story is there was no model for what she did. It wasn't like, okay, so how do I make a difference in this problem? There was no book where you just flip it open. You're like, okay, step one, go find school buses that the city is giving away for you know like pennies on the dollar it was just like sitting there and

saying let me forget all the rules and all the boundaries and all the constraints and like what is the universe of possibilities here like how can i make this happen yeah and i you know she she kind of explained the the she knew that she wanted to do something because she had that experience in the cab and was horrified horrified by it and then shortly after that she wanted to do something because she had that experience in the cab and was horrified by it. And then shortly after that, she doesn't call people homeless. She calls them unhoused, which is, again, just very sweet. She's such a beautiful woman. She'd seen an unhoused person who was just saying that she couldn't get clean. And so then that was, oh, showers.

And then she'd read about this, the government giving away the buses. And I was like, oh, my goodness. And sort of pieced it all together. And I, there's just something about that, you know, the universe and these downloads. And there's, there's many times where I've had it drop in and I've just acted on it. I mean, even with the book that was like, all right, we're doing it. And I think we get them, we get them a lot lot but we need to be able to listen to them and then we need to be willing to act on them even if it seems crazy but yeah they they happen all the time yeah I mean Janice was a really a beautiful story of somebody who's sort of like a little bit further into life saying okay so how can I make a difference one of the other stories

Destiny Watford was sort of like on the other end of life, you know, like much younger. Share a little bit about her story. Oh, she's incredible. When she was 16, she's from this town in Baltimore where the pollution was just outrageous. And she discovered that near her school, this company had been given permits to build a trash incinerator that would have pumped deadly amounts of lead and mercury into the atmosphere. But because it was a trash incinerator, they had labeled it green energy. And so they were allowed to get around all of these rules. You can't build power plants next to schools, but because it was

now green energy, they could build it right by the school. So she kind of had heard about that. And then she'd gone on a school trip to see a Henrik Ibsen play. Oh, what is it called again? But it's basically about this town realizing that there's a pollution in their hot tubs, is that what you'd call them? Not hot tubs, but sort of the natural hot springs. But the problem was, do you stop people using these hot springs and then the town loses its money? Or do you allow people to continue using it and then the town has money, but then people get sick, which is kind of, as I'm saying this now, a very COVID-specific problem. And so she kind of had that awakening to like, no, we need to do something. We need to take care of people. It's not just about the money.

And then, so that all happened at the same time. And she took on this power plant and got the whole thing shut down. It took like a year. She mobilized this group of friends. They started this organization. They went knocking on doors doors they had meetings with the school board they basically went around the power plant had uh got all these contracts with different people including their school you know this power plant was going to make the kids sick um but the school was buying the energy because it was cheaper um and they'd gone to all of these different places to say you know this is how dangerous this thing is we don't think you should uh go into business with them. So took away all of their companies.

And then, yeah, it just became this long battle. It was even more than that to get the thing shut down, but she didn't give up. And she's, I think she's an introvert too. And for her, it was a struggle, you know, being, stepping up, but she was moved enough to do it. And I find that so incredible at 16 to be that moved. And yeah, and what I love about her too, it's just, we have power, you know, people forget we have so much power to do stuff.

You know, it wasn't just her. And she said that, you know, it wasn't just her and, and, and she said that, you know, it wasn't just me. It wasn't just a single effort. It was everybody coming together to make it happen. But, you know, she was the catalyst and that brought people together, but we can do, we can, we can make changes. We can, you know, it really is a beautiful awakening, you know, to sort of, um, realize that no matter your age um no matter your resources that you know you can in some way shape or form invest in change and what's interesting to me also is you know like denise is sort of like somebody who's looking at a problem from the outside in you know destiny is

somebody who's looking at a problem from the inside out you know she is going to be directly affected everyone she loves can be directly affected by this. And very often from that perspective, it's a much harder thing to deal with. And understandably so. When you are a member of the community that's actually experiencing the harm, it's a different conversation and a different lift to be able to step into it and say, okay, how do I help? It's really inspiring to sort of like see the different stories of how people from totally different walks of life come about it and deal with the adversity that comes their way. When I zoom the lens out, when I think about this book

and the platform that you're building now, and we sort of almost go all the way back to why in the very beginning, not originally when you were drawn to acting, cause you wanted to be famous, but once sort of like the penny dropped and you're like, Oh, I can create something that helps people feel and reconnect what matters. It feels like you sort of like circled back to this. And this is the most recent just continuing evolution of that early impulse.

Yes. I just want people to feel good um you know yeah just just wanting to lift people up wanting to feel good because i know what it's like to feel that low and um you know i'm so grateful that i'm not in those i when i do feel depressed although it's not as crippling as it used to be. And the further away I am from that, I kind of forget that it was horrible. It was so horrible to wake up feeling dread, to feel like there was no hope. And I just want to be able to do what I can to help people that may be going through the same thing with whatever mode it is, whether it's a video, whether it's a meme on our Facebook page, whether it's the book, just offer that as a way to just encourage and, and help people out. And I, and again,

I feel like I'm sometimes I feel like a broken record, but I think it's just the same, the same messages and offering the same stuff because at different points it will will land with somebody in this way that I say it. And so, yeah, I definitely feel like that's my mission. It's beautiful. Feels like a good place for us to come full circle as well. So hanging out in this container of a good life project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life. What comes up? I would say, do you.

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