Good Life Project - Jamie Kern Lima | Just Watch Me

Episode Date: February 25, 2021

Jamie Kern Lima thought she’d spend her life in the world of broadcast TV, where after graduating, she began working her way up as a journalist, then eventually news anchor where a bright career was laid out in front of her. Then, the camera started picking up a genetic skin condition that she struggled to hide and threatened to derail what she’d worked for. That experience set in motion a quest that eventually led her out of broadcast journalism and into the world of entrepreneurship where she’d eventually found IT Cosmetics, a company she started in her living room and would eventually sell to L’Oreal for $1.2 Billion, becoming the first female CEO in L’Oreal’s 100+ year history. Her journey, though, was anything but smooth, with years of 100+ hour weeks, living hand-to-mouth, miles of no’s and countless dark nights of the soul and even a single moment that would either shut the company down or launch them into the stratosphere, which by the way, it did. Jamie is passionate about inspiring and mentoring entrepreneurs, building businesses, making a difference in the lives of women and girls and giving back in a big way. Her book, Believe IT: How to Go from Underestimated to Unstoppable (https://amzn.to/3uqLXak), shares her story and many of the big insights she’s now sharing with aspiring creators and founders.You can find Jamie Kern Lima at:Website : https://www.believeit.com/Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/jamiekernlima/-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My guest today, Jamie Kern Lima, well, she thought she'd spent her life in the world of broadcast TV, where after graduating school, she began working her way up as a journalist, and then eventually a news anchor, where a bright career was really laid out in front of her. And the camera started picking up a genetic skin condition that she struggled to hide and threatened to derail what she was really working so hard to build. That experience, that emotion, that quest that would eventually lead her out of the world of broadcast journalism and into the world of entrepreneurship, where she'd eventually

found It Cosmetics, a company she started in her living room and would sell down the road to L'Oreal for $1.2 billion, becoming the first female CEO in L'Oreal's 100 plus year history. Her journey, though, is anything but smooth with years of 100 plus hour weeks living hand to mouth for some of those miles of nose and countless dark nights of the soul, and even a single moment that would either shut the company down or launch them into the stratosphere, which by the way, guess which one happened? Jamie's passionate about inspiring mentors and entrepreneurs, building businesses, making a difference in the lives of women and girls, and giving back in a big way. Her book, Believe It, shares her story and many of the big insights she's now

sharing with aspiring creators and founders. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. We'll be right back. Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum.

Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. I was born, yeah, in San Rafael and adopted the day I was born, which I would learn about in my late 20s for the first time. But yeah, raised up in the Seattle area. I went to school out there. Lots of, raised up in the Seattle area. I went to school out there. Lots of families still up there in that area right now. Yeah. Which is gorgeous there. It sounds like as a kid also, you're coming up in a family where hardworking family, but you end up also being the first person in the family to go to college.

Yeah. Yeah. Was that always an expectation of yours or an aspiration? No, it wasn't. I always had this kind of like feeling like this knowing that I wanted to get out and see the world. It was never an expectation. In fact, I'd always worked really hard. But I always had that kind of that inner knowing of where I'm at is not where I want to stay, at least not for a while. I want to get out and meet people and see things and all that. But I wasn't raised in a family that really traveled much or any of that. They worked really, really hard though. So when I was a teenager, I'm like, oh, I need to get out and I need my own car. And so my parents weren't going to buy one for me.

So I had four jobs. I bagged groceries at Safeway and all those things. And I saved up enough money for my first car. And that was a big thing. And I remember actually the opposite almost happened to me because after, well, during high school and then after actually, I started as a receptionist at this health club and then started selling memberships for commission and eventually moved up into management and was running this club with thousands of members, not because I had any leadership ability yet, but just because I was selling the most memberships.

And anyhow, I, at the time, was making around $50,000, which was a lot more money than either my parents. And I remember my dad actually saying, because I told him, oh, I'm thinking about maybe going to college. And he's like, are you crazy? Like, why would you do that? You know what I mean? He's like, no, you have a great thing going. And it was kind of this moment. I actually remember the moment really well where I had this kind of like little knowing, you know, those deep knowings we get in our gut where I'm like, oh, he loves me so much. He's giving me the best advice. He knows how, but I think he's wrong.

You know, that kind of that knowing where he's giving me advice through the lens of his own fears, own limitations, his own experience. So for me, it was actually the opposite. It was me kind of having this feeling of, oh, I think I'm supposed to meet new people, serve more, give more, do more, something more than where I'm at. And I didn't know what that was, but I just always kind of knew that where I came from and even where I was at wasn't where I was called to be or serve or give. Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting because so often you hear the exact opposite story where

the aspiration for the family and for the kids is always like, this is the next step and the next step. And then you go to college or maybe get your graduate degree and then go into this world. And it's really interesting to hear that your dad was actually kind of saying to you, well, you know, like do the thing that makes the most sense for you. And from his standpoint, that probably revolved around safety and security. Yeah. say yes to college. Did you have a sense? Because unlike your average sort of like high school kid, where you're not really sacrificing a whole lot, you were giving up a lot to say yes to that. What was it in your mind that you were saying yes to? I just had this kind of feeling like I was supposed to be doing something that mattered more or that was impacting other people more, I guess, than what I was doing.

And I didn't know what that was, but I knew enough to look around and go, okay. I had this kind of, I guess, fearless part of me where I just wanted to get out and see everything. And I ended up quitting my job at the health club and moving over to Pullman, Washington, which is this tiny town for Washington State University. And I got a job as a waitress at Denny's. So I was waiting tables at Denny's and then eventually slicing meat in the deli counter as well at the grocery store there and just kind of dove in to college. And it was, I think, the best decision I ever made at that point in my life, not because I learned a ton, but it was, I think the best decision I ever made at that point in my life, not because

I learned a ton, but it was because it was that first step into, you know, I guess, trusting myself, my own, that own inner voice, even when it went against the advice of the people I love so much around me. Yeah. Did you have a sense for what you wanted to do afterwards or was it, were you not even looking that far ahead? Well, I always thought, I think I saw, what was that movie with Michael Douglas? And I was like, oh, I'm going to be a stockbroker and I'm going to go into business. And I thought that was

Wall Street. It was Wall Street. Yeah. And I thought, oh, this is going to be so great. And so I actually majored in business and I thought that's what I was going to do at that point. But I then also, I mean, ever since I was going to do at that point. But I then also, I mean, ever since I was a little girl, I loved other people's stories. I used to sit in my living room every day growing up watching Oprah. And I always thought one day I'm going to have my career sharing other people's stories. So I had that in the back of my mind too. And so eventually I ended up working in journalism actually and thought that's what I was going to do my whole career until everything changed. Yeah. I mean, you go from there and you head out into the world of broadcast TV. And it sounds like, you know, sort of starting in one

market, then eventually bouncing up to Portland where you end up anchoring. I can't let go of the Wall Street reference though, you though, because it's interesting because it sounds like there are these two things happening in you simultaneously. On the one hand, there is this real awareness of scale and wealth as something in your mind that is calling you. And then on the other hand, there's this real openness and deep interest and curiosity about other people, about other people's stories. And it seems like you had these dueling storylines, which is an interesting context because neither one of those ever really leaves you.

That's so funny you say that. I don't know if you have similar experiences in this area, but now that you say that, I'm having these memories of growing up, even as a little kid, I would save my Easter candy and think about, could I sell this? Or I would make cookies and think, okay, I'm going to sell them for a dollar a bag. So I guess I always had that kind of instinct or I guess curiosity. And I think, you know, the movie Wall Street, which I don't think I've ever spoken about this ever. Like, I don't even know if my husband knows this, but the movie Wall Street, I remember thinking like, oh, it felt exciting because A, everything in that movie I had never seen in real life, like nothing looked like that

around me where I was raised and, felt like, oh, I could build an empire. I think that's what it was. Yeah. And as you're speaking, something else which occurs to me, which is, it's like another storyline here, but it's really, for those who haven't seen the movie, this was a classic movie. You got to go see it. But it basically pits Martin Sheen against Charlie Sheen. And Martin is the old person who's spent his whole life working in a trade, coming up, working really hard, representing the union, and really has a strong value around hard work and money. And then his son gets exposed to this world where it's all about exponential cash and

scale. That is not entirely dissimilar to the storyline between you and your dad. Although you don't get caught up in the madness and completely loose side of value and humanity the way that the younger character in that movie did. But it's interesting to sort of like see that dynamic. The dynamic, yeah. It latched into you early on. Yeah. And I probably ended up working twice as hard as my dad did for so many years.

Probably too hard, actually, in hindsight so many years, probably too hard actually in hindsight. But yeah, that is interesting. I've never thought about that before. Yeah. So you end up behind an anchor desk. You're building your career. You're doing this thing that feels really good to you, telling other people's stories

and also being in front of a camera and believing this is going to be your trajectory. And then everything changes. Tell me what your sort of inciting incident is here for saying, okay, there's something else. Yeah. It was this moment where something happened to me that I thought was this big setback. It felt like the biggest setback. And I later realized it was like a setup for everything I was actually supposed to do. And I think sometimes we have these moments happen to us that are horrible or feel unfair or feel like a big setback. And then, you know, it's amazing how life works, right? When we can look back and go, wow, thank goodness for our setbacks in so many cases,

even the hard ones. But this one, yeah, I had worked my way up. I started in a small market and learning how to write and edit and shoot and report and all those things. And I had worked my way up to Portland, Oregon, and I was anchoring the weekend morning news. And I thought it was my dream job. And I thought, I knew for sure I wanted to do this since I was a little girl and I loved it. And I started getting a skin condition on my face called rosacea, which is hereditary and there's no cure for it. And it's bright red. And in my case, like if you imagine, I'm thinking of all of your community right now, like if you imagine touching your face and then, but your cheeks feel like sandpaper with like these bumps everywhere and they're bright red, like the color of tomatoes.

So that's what started happening on my face. And I'd be anchoring the news and I would hear in my earpiece from the producer, I would hear, and I'd be live talking to viewers live and I would hear in my earpiece, there's something on your face. There's something on your face. Can you wipe it off? Can you wipe it off? And I knew there was nothing I could wipe

off. And so it started this chapter for me of seeing dermatologists, realizing, oh, there's no cure for this. Okay. What do I do now? And that started this season of trying makeup, every type of makeup I could get my hands on from the most inexpensive at the drugstores to the really expensive ones at department stores to the professional lines of makeup and nothing would work. Either it wouldn't cover and you'd see all this redness coming through or it'd be super thick, almost like a mask. And so I had this moment where I realized like, why is nothing working for me? And two things happen. Like a lot of people talk about kind of their why in their journey, why they're doing what they're doing. And it was interesting that the why for me on this company I eventually ended up creating started in this moment where I realized, oh, my whole life, like, cause I couldn't figure out why is nothing

working? There's millions of makeup brands out there. And then I realized in, you know, all the time, and this was in 2007, in all of the years I had seen television commercials or magazine ads of makeup products, the models always had a perfect skin. I had never seen anyone with bright red rosacea. And on top of that, I kind of realized, oh, wow, I don't even know if those models were wearing the product they were selling. And a lot of times the ads are Photoshopped. So a lot of times makeup just, I always thought it worked, but that's because I actually just didn't have anything I needed to cover or anything else.

And I had this moment of realizing, oh, if I can figure out how to actually create a product that works for me, I bet it's also, but there's so many other people out there that have just given up on makeup or they're frustrated or they would love a product like that too. And then the bigger thing for me though, was something happened in that moment where it wasn't just about that aha moment. Oh, this is white space. This product is missing. It was way deeper than that. It was this moment where I realized, having this moment where I realized I'd never seen anyone with my skin conditions in magazine ads or TV ads, I realized, oh, wow, my entire life, like growing up, I'd always seen these ads with these women with flawless skin. And I'd always aspired to look like that.

But deep down inside, they actually always made me feel like I wasn't enough. And I had this moment where I realized, okay, if I'm going to do this, if I'm going to give up on one dream, right? Which by the way, sometimes knowing when to give up on a dream is as important as knowing when to go after one. And this was really hard for me because I thought my whole life, I'm going to do this. And I had this moment where I realized I'm going to give up on this dream of telling other people's stories. I'm going to do something I know nothing about, which is start a makeup company. If I'm going to do it, it's not just going to be about the product and about figuring out how to hopefully create something that works. But if I create a company, I want to actually cast models that are real people with real skin challenges and all ages

and sizes and skin tones. And the deep, deep why was like, if I could shift culture and beauty and create a company where I show all these real people, call them beautiful models and mean it, maybe I could shift culture around the whole definition of beauty for every little girl who's about to see these images and start doubting herself and every grown woman and person who still does. And that deep, I guess, reflection or pain that I realized had always kind of made me feel not enough is what then became this driver inside of me, way bigger driver than let me create a product that works or even though I wanted to do that, or let me help millions of other people, even though I wanted to do that, the deeper why was like, oh, can I actually do something to shift culture around this not

enoughness that the beauty industry drives into people? So that all started when I was sitting there as a news anchor, not knowing how I was going to do it, not knowing anyone in the beauty industry, not having much money. But when I would check in with that internal gut, it told me I just felt like I was supposed to do it. It didn't make sense. And my head wanted to stay in my dream job of a journalist, but my inner knowing was like, you're supposed to do this. And that I made the decision to trust it. Yeah. And again, similar to the decision you made to go to college and actually give up a really well-paying career with possibility, this was another moment where you're sort of saying, I have a trajectory,

I'm doing really well. But there is this other thing where maybe I can't even from a, I can't rationally say, I know this is going to work. You can make all the spreadsheets in the world, but it's always a huge risk to start something new, especially in an industry where you have no resources, no relationships, no experience. It's a product-based industry, which is all classically known as being brutally hard to start a company in. And you're choosing to walk away from something where you're succeeding, you know it, and there's a clear path. It sounds like there is something in you, there's a voice in you that kind of like allows you to be willing to walk away from a quote, sure thing in the name of something that is very unsure, but has the possibility and the potential to make a difference at a much bigger scale. It sounds like that's been a part of you for basically your life. Yeah. And when I look back in the stories that I share, like I've never shared before, but in this book, a big thing is when I look at all the things I've done wrong in my journey,

which is a lot, and I talk about all of them, usually when I look back at the big mistakes I made, it was when I didn't trust myself or I didn't get still enough to actually hear what that inner knowing was. And I think that the things I did right were when I did do that, even when it didn't make sense. And I think that when so many people Google my story, I've never shared the story behind the story of all this. And the reason I'm doing it is because when you Google my story, you go, oh, Denny's Waitress creates a billion dollar company. And it looks like, oh, she just got lucky or this or that. But it's like, no, it was actually a journey that was, you know, from the moment that I just made this decision to trust my gut, to listen to that,

knowing I'm supposed to do this next thing, it was not easy. And I think so many people end up facing opposition or they try a new idea and they don't get any success or proof that their idea is right around them. Or it could also be the people around them in their inner circle that love them so much, but are like, are you sure? All of a sudden, all the doubt starts. And I feel like for so many people, it's so much easier to talk ourselves out of our own truth and never actually step into all of who we are or all of who we're born to be and literally miss out on the person we're born to be because it's easier to either stay in our comfort

zone or it's easier to have the volume the loudest on everyone else around us or our own self-doubt to the point where we don't even hear our own internal knowing anymore or ever learn how. And when I realized that like so many people send me messages or DMs on Instagram or whatever saying, oh, I didn't have that kind of luck when I tried or this or that, or I keep getting rejection, but I'm happy for you. And it's like, oh, wow. I had this big moment where I realized that if we don't share these kind of stories, right, of all the rejection or the times that the things we did right by listening and learning how to tune into our knowing or not doing it and having huge, you know, I think, I think sharing all

these kinds of stories is so important, which is why I love your show, by the way, but also why, you know, it's why I wrote this book because so many people, at least in my story, it looks like a fairy tale or something. It looks, and all that does is make people feel alone in their own rejection or their own opposition they're facing. And my story is really a story of a girl who went from not believing in herself to believing in herself and not trusting herself at times. It's like learning how to trust yourself even when it didn't make sense. And so I think that that's the journey. I think, I think, you know, most people won't want to create a product company and sell it for a billion dollars or this or that. I think the journey is for all of us is learning how to like

break through all the noise of, of self-doubt and other people's opinions, all that, and learning actually how to hear our own truth and then trust it. Because for me, I think that's the only way to actually step into all of who you are and all of who you're called to be. And I think that so few people never actually become all of who they are. And I feel like everybody listening right now probably know because we all have this knowing. We all have this knowing deep down inside where we know if we're in the right job right now or if we're in the right relationship or is this friendship right for us. We all kind of know. We all have that knowing.

But I think so few people actually get into the practice of learning how to hear their own truth and then trust themselves. My biggest hope and prayer for this book is that it just – I mean, it's every lesson I've ever learned personally and professionally on how to do that and how to believe in yourself, how to trust yourself. And it's hard, Jonathan. I mean, when I left television news, I thought, oh my gosh, if I can just create a product that's really good, that works, it's going to be huge. I just thought that. And I didn't realize, oh, it's not that easy. We poured every penny we had into the business. My husband quit his job. I quit his job. We wrote our business plan on our honeymoon flight to South Africa, got back, quit our jobs, and just

dove all in and spent every penny we had. And I thought when we'd finally created this product that I knew, oh, wow, it works for me. This is going to be huge. I had no idea how hard it would be to be an entrepreneur. And I also didn't know how hard it would be when all the experts are telling you that they don't believe in your idea, right? So in my case, I had thought, oh, wow, all the department stores, the Sephora, Ulta, all the beauty retailers, QVC. I'd always thought if I can create something that works, like let me go live on television and show it live where you can't Photoshop it. Let me prove how good this is on real women. And I had all these hopes and dreams. And then for what I didn't know is for

the first three years of the business, every single one of those retailers would say no, or you're not the right fit for us, or you're not right for our customers. It was three years of no's, just about every form of no you can possibly hear. I share a story in the book also of a potential investor who actually said no to investing because he, and he was finally honest about it at the end. He said, I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight. And I remember when he passed on investing in us for that reason. And I just,

I remember two things. One, even though it hurt, I didn't get mad. I actually just, like, it reminded me of why I was doing this also to begin with, because if he was going to pass on investing in someone because of what they look like or their body or weight, he's making a business decision on that. He's just as much impacted by all the images of the definition of beauty we've all seen our whole lives as I am, you know? And so it was like, oh, wow, this really impacts everyone. And it just kind of drove me even harder to build a company that changed that. But it was three years. And, you know, anyone listening right now is part

of your community. And I think like when we share these stories of rejection or of people telling us we're not enough or of even experts that are touted visionaries that tell us what we're doing in their area of expertise is not going to work and they're not willing to bet on us. And when we share those stories, I think that it helps us all feel less alone in our own rejection. Because a lot of times, you know, you look on social media, all you see is everyone's highlight reel and it looks like everyone's having this great success. But when we share our stories of, oh yeah, here's the outcome. Oh yeah, I grew a billion dollar business, but like, but oh, all the, all the people that are so proud of our partnership now, it actually started out as three years of them rejecting me or saying you're not the right fit. And just how to know if you should keep going or not is really the heart and soul of this book. It's not how to create a billion-dollar company. It's like how to learn

to believe in yourself and trust yourself and go from doubting you're enough to knowing you're enough, but also just how to tune in and get still and go, oh yeah you're enough to knowing you're enough, but also just how to tune in and get still and go, oh yeah, I need to keep going because that's what feels right, even if it doesn't make sense right now. Or, oh, you know what? It's time to quit. And it's a victory that I know that. You know what I mean? Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program,

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Flight risk. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting to hear, you know, the when to hold and when to fold question, I think is something that so many people grapple with, whether it's your own company, whether it's a career, whether it's a relationship, you know, it's sort of like that universal question where we get so trapped very often, I think also by wanting to be perceived a certain way by people around us who we respect and whose respect we want, by data, which sometimes tells us, well, the data can't prove it and data can't prove anything that hasn't been done before. So you always have to balance that. But then, I mean, I'm fascinated by sort of like the deeper

knowing that you talk about, because I think we look to outside people who we trust, we look to information, and we so often never validate intuition as data. And I think it's really important. I think sometimes it does lead us astray. There's really interesting research by Daniel Kahneman about the thinking fast and slow systems where there is a time and a place for the rational analytical decision-making and a time and a place for the rational analytical decision-making and a time and a place for the quick intuitive decision-making. But what I'm curious with you also is, I'm curious what the language of your intuition is. Because I feel like for a lot of people, the language is physical. We actually literally feel it. It's embodied, yet so many of us have reached a point

in our adult lives where we're largely disconnected from feeling our bodies. We're disembodied that not only do we not feel emotion, but we also become disconnected to the messenger of intuition. And so it's not even that we can't read it. We don't even feel it. So I'm curious how intuition lands with you. What's the language? Yeah. And I think too, for a lot of people, their intuition's also the only way they hear God, right?

Or their faith, whatever faith means to them. Yeah. So here's the thing. I do believe we all have it. And I think along the lines of what you said, it's so easy to get so out of practice that we don't even know we have that muscle of learning how to tune in and hear it, right? So let me just give an example though. Like at the most basic level, when you're in the dating world, which for me feels like it was so long ago, but when you're in the dating world and you're into some guy and all of a sudden,

like he disappears or his phone broke or, you know, you know, deep down inside he's sketchy, like, you know, right. Or, or we know, we know when someone's cheating. I don't wish that on anyone. I've had that happen to me. We know, but we can choose not to hear it, right? We can choose to ignore it, all those kind of things. Or we second guess ourself. But we kind of know. And we go into the checkout counter somewhere and we just get a weird feeling.

Or we know. We know. feeling or a, we know, we know, but for whatever reason, when it comes to our own lives, we tend to just get so out of practice at even trying to know, right? And we just like hear everyone else and see the proof in front of us and all those things. And so, you know, for me, one of the biggest stories that comes to mind of, I think, when it spoke to me the loudest and how it felt was after, you know, three years of constant rejection from everyone, including QVC, you know, I'd finally gotten the head person. His name was Alan Burke and he ran all of beauty at QVC.

So he was responsible. He's considered a legend in the beauty industry and he's responsible for building this multi-billion dollar empire over there. And I'd finally gotten him on the phone and I thought if he's going to talk to me and spend any of his precious time, it's going to be a good thing. And long story short, when we got on the phone, he said, you know, it's a no. And it's a unanimous no. All the buyers feel that. You're not the right fit for us or for QVC. And cried myself to sleep that night and then three nights in a row. And eventually was at a big

beauty trade show where thousands, there's 6,000 women there and happens once a year. And every beauty brand demonstrates their best product launches of the year. And I'd entered us in that show. And long story short, QVC was there. And one of their hosts happened to try our product and love it and tell the buyer about it. And I snuck out from the booth when you're not supposed to leave and went up and met one of the buyers. And this whole thing happened. We ended up getting a meeting finally, an in-person meeting finally for QVC and we got a yes. And what this meant was we got one shot in this 10 minute live airing on QVC. Now at the time we were doing two to three orders a day on our website, right? So-

So you were kind of like at the end of your rope. I mean, it was like, this was make or break time for you. It was make or break. And after three years of no, hearing no, and you're not the right fit from everybody to finally get this big yes was huge, but it also became one of my greatest lessons on intuition, I think, that I've ever had in my career so far because it's one thing to know what we stand for and to know what we feel. And then it's a whole other thing when everyone's telling you to go against it and when everything's on the line. And what I mean by that is we got this yes, which meant we got one chance, one shot to go live on QVC, which is a television shopping channel. It's broadcast to 100 million homes live and it's consignment. So what that meant for us at the time

was, oh, we had to sell over 6,000 units of our product in this 10-minute window in order to hit their sales goal or not come back. And it was all consignment, meaning we somehow had to pay for all of it, manufacture all of it, ship it into them, not to mention all the boring stuff I won't go into, which is like third-party manufacturing, FTC compliant, all this stuff, FDA clinical testing, all the stuff you have to pay for. But if it doesn't sell, or Jonathan, the other thing is what I learned, what I learned is that you might be given this 10-minute window, but if you go live and you're a minute in and it's not selling, your time gets

cut live, right? So you think you have 10 minutes and maybe you're a minute or two in and if it's not doing well, all of a sudden your clock is down to two minutes instantly. You're like, and then it all gets shipped back to you. And in our case, we would go out of business, right? So it was a big risk. But at that point, to your point, we didn't know how we were going to stay alive anyway. We were down to under $1,000 at this point in our company bank account, which was our personal bank account. So we applied and we were only doing the two to three orders a day on our website. So we applied for SBA loans and 22 banks had said no. So the last, the 23rd bank gave us a loan just to cover the inventory for this one airing on QVC.

So basically, long story short, everything was on the line. And, you know, as an entrepreneur, you should never accept a purchase order. You can't afford to lose. But at this point, we're like, you know what? Like, it's kind of our one shot. So I'd practiced like the whole demonstration I was going to do on the, in this 10 minute airing and all this, we hired third party consultants that are awesome. They help a lot of people sell their products on television and in stores.

Uh, and the big dilemma that I walked right into was that all these third party experts told me that, you know, for me to have the best chance of success in that 10-minute window, I needed to have all of these models with flawless skin and here's how I needed to present the product. Well, this was everything that had ever worked before. So I got why they were saying this, but it also went against the authentic reason I created this product to begin with, right? So I would say to them things like, well, if I'm sitting at home and I am in my 70s, how do I know that it's going to work for me if I only see someone who looks like she's

12 modeling? Or if I'm at home with rosacea or hyperpigmentation, but I don't see somebody with my skin tone or my skin talent. How do I know it's going to work for me? And we would get into it and argue. And they wanted me to win. They wanted the best thing for me. And you said something earlier, actually, that made me think of this moment because people that are visionaries, even though they would never admit this, they also often can't imagine something succeeding if they haven't seen it succeed before. Because subconsciously, there's no proof it's going to, right? So I'm arguing with the best of the best experts, and they're telling me one thing,

and my gut is telling me another. But I also didn't want to go out of business, and I was put in this really tough situation where literally everything was on the line. So I flew out to Pennsylvania, which is where QVC is. It's about 30 minutes west of Philly. And I sat in this rental car in the parking lot a week early. So I got there a week early and I sat all alone in this rental car staring at the front door of QVC, which is this massive campus, because the pressure felt so great where I was like, I don't want to go out of business. I don't

want to lose everything. And I have one shot. And sometimes when this happens, we start to think, well, maybe my gut is wrong. There's no proof around me that it's right. And you've got at that point, three years of proof that maybe you're wrong. Yes. Yes. Because the market is saying like, no, no, no, no, no. And the distribution channels are saying, no, no, no, no, no. So to still be there sitting there saying, but there's something in me that's still a yes. Brutally hard. And these are the moments. Yeah. So hard.

And yet these are the moments that change our whole lives. Like these are the moments that change our destiny. These are the moments that literally like our industry changing or world changing or company changing, you know? But when you're in them, it's so hard to think you're a person that could know something that all these other people don't know. It's so hard to trust yourself when there's no proof you're right. And this was one of the biggest moments for me when I was in that spot because I literally sat there in that rental car crying. The pressure felt so heavy. I sat there, I prayed, I cried. I was like,

I was like trying to just literally say, God, tell me what to do because this feels too heavy for me. Starting to second guess myself. I don't want to go out of business. I've been working 100 hour weeks for three years. I'm trying to do every job in the company too, because we couldn't afford to hire anybody for Zillow. And I was just like, and it's hard when you're gut. I kept checking in. I had this moment. I knew this. I knew I wasn't able to prove this till way later. But I had this kind of feeling of like, okay, just like authenticity doesn't guarantee success. but inauthenticity guarantees failure. I would see that prove out over and over and over with the thousands of entrepreneurs I would later be in shows with for many years.

But in that moment, it's hard. We know things or they sound good, but it's hard to try. And so that's why I say like the life-defining moments, I believe, whether they're who you marry, what friendship you're going to stay in, what job you're going to jump in or out of, I think they come down to that. And so I wrote this book. They come down to knowing how to hear yourself and then making the decision to trust yourself. And I just remember sitting in this rental car, watching people walk in and out of the QVC building, which sounds a little creepy when I'm saying this out loud, but I would just sit there watching.

And I knew the next time I walked in that building, I was going to walk out with my whole life changed one way or the other. Either I'd be out of business completely or I'd be in a whole new chapter of our business. And I just sat there trying to hear and make sure I was hearing myself, right, instead of my own fear or maybe the thoughts would come into my head. Well, maybe the experts are right or, you know, this hasn't ever worked. And I do have one shot maybe, you know, but I couldn't try it both ways. I'm like, well, maybe if I just start out doing it with everyone else and then I'll

build it up and then I'll try. I have all those thoughts, right? But at the end of the day, when I would get still and I would check in with my knowing, I remember too, Jonathan, I would imagine who is that person watching on the other end, right? I'm about to have this one in a million opportunity, this one shot. I'm going to go live on national television. And who is that person?

And I would imagine different women. And I didn't want to let them down. I kept imagining this single mom in Nebraska who was like folding laundry, who was too busy to remember that she matters and to remember that she's beautiful. And maybe had never, like, I imagine her, if she was going to bless me with five seconds of her precious time and have me on her television, like, I remember this moment where I realized I'd rather have her look up on her screen, see me taking off my makeup, showing my bright red rosacea, showing all these women, calling them beautiful and meaning it. I'd rather have her see that and not buy anything than like me go on air and do the crap I've seen my whole life in magazines and stand for nothing. And I knew what I knew. And because in that moment I chose to trust myself, the entire future changed

of everything that happened after that. We went live in that. I remember the 10-minute clock started and it was like 9.59, 9.58. And I thought I had practiced this demonstration in the mirror so many times on my wrist where I showed the top two competitive concealers to ours in the department stores, and then I showed ours. And I bend my wrist a bunch of times to show ours never creases, and the other ones do. I practiced in my bathroom mirror, I don't know, a thousand times. So I go live on QVC. I thought I was ready. My hand was shaking so much that the host had to grab it. And she's like, thank you, sugar. And she pushed it under the podium. And I remember the moment my bright red face came up on national

television. And I remember showing all the models, all ages and sizes and skin tones. And we were about a minute left. And the host said, the deep shade is almost sold out. The tan shade is down. And I was like, and then I remember at the last seconds, the sold out sign came up across the screen and this diagonal, big, like stamp, like sold out sign. I literally start crying and they cut. And I remember my husband rushing through the double doors at the studio and I'm like, real women have spoken. And he's like, we're not going bankrupt. And then that one airing turned into five that year and then 150 the next year and eventually over 250 live shows a year. And we built the largest beauty brand in QVC's history. And it is right now at this moment, to this day, I only share that because it was three years of not just no, but like

you're not the right fit for us or for our customers. And then we eventually got into all the stores that had told us no. We eventually turned those into yeses and started a three-year conversation with L'Oreal that was also filled with a lot of no's. And even L'Oreal, the best of intentions, giving us feedback on the stuff we needed to improve and change. And we did take some of it when it felt right. But when I look back now, had I made all the changes they suggested, they would have never bought our company for $1.2 billion cash because

we'd be doing what everyone else was doing. And it's these moments I look back on where it's like, wow, where I made our biggest mistakes is when I didn't trust myself. And the biggest moments that changed everything were the times I did, even when it didn't make sense to. Yeah. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch,

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On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk.

I'm curious also, when you talk about that three-year sort of like season, to weather something like that, if you started this and you said, we're going to build an amazing product, an amazing product company, and that was your primary reason why versus you having a bigger reason. You basically saying, okay, so that thing that made me want to inquire into and tell the stories of people as an anchor, this is making me want to inquire into and not only tell the stories, but inspire the stories of everyone, primarily women. And there was something that was very personally connected to you. There was a deeper why that was bigger than building a product company. I'm curious whether you ever reflect on whether you think building the company would have been enough of a reason why to sustain you had you not had that bigger sense of service and purpose?

Because there's clearly a hardcore entrepreneur and founder and business builder inside of you who just lights up at the process of building an organization at scale. That's a part of you. But I wonder if that would have been enough to get you to three years in a day until you finally had this one experience. I don't think it would have. I don't think so. I think that one of the big mistakes that so many really smart, well-intentioned people make, especially entrepreneurs, but also just people in their everyday lives with goals and things like that, is I think that there's so much great work that's been done on your why, your mission for doing what you're doing. There's a lot of books out there that are wonderful. And I think the big

mistake a lot of people make is they have a goal or a dream or a company or anything else. And it could be simple. It could be, I'm going to work out every day this year, right? It could be anything. And I think that first, most people don't attach a why to it. But when people do attach a why to it, I feel like that the big mistake people make is they stop at a why that just makes sense and sounds really good and makes them feel like they've nailed it. And they don't take the time to like peel back the layers and go deeper to the why beneath the why. One example I'm just thinking that comes to mind is if we say, oh, like what you just brought, oh, I want to create a product that works for me or I want to

help millions of people also. Like those are great whys, but if it's not as deep as it can possibly go, I don't think it's enough. I think they sound good. I think a lot of people will say, oh, I'm going to create this business. I'm going to launch this business and I'm going to pay for my kids' college one day. And I think if you say that to yourself and to other people, that sounds really good. And it's like admirable. But like, is that deep enough to actually drive you, you know, when you want to quit, when it's hard, when you keep getting knocked down? And I think often there is a deeper why there, even in that same person situation, but they haven't done the work or even are aware that

they should appealing back all the layers and going deeper. Because in that one example, for example, if someone's why is I want to pay for my kid's school. I mean, that sounds so great, but is that meaningful enough? Meaning if you do the work of peeling back the layers, what is the why beneath why you want to pay for your kid's school? And then start going there and figuring out, well, why do you? And what does that mean for you? And is it that you want to show up for your kids in a way that no one ever showed it for you growing up?

Is it that you want to break a generational cycle in your family of X, Y, or Z? Is it, right? And you start peeling it back and going deeper and deeper and deeper until you get to something that's going to give you that unwavering like passion that means way more to you than how hard rejection is or how much it sucks when you don't want to see your ATM receipt and you hit no receipt over and over at any time you go get $20 cash. Like that thing that means more, that's way bigger than yourself. Because if we don't do that, I think it's way too easy to quit. It's like, you know what? They can get student loans. Like, you know what? Like, you know, I want the brownie.

I don't need to work out every day. Whatever it is, right? I mean, I'm just using random examples, but I think that peeling back and the why beneath the why is so important. I don't think for me, even though if I said, oh, Jonathan, I've helped millions of women feel more confident, that would sound amazing. And do I care about that? Yes, absolutely. I care about that. That wouldn't have identified the deep enough pain in me to keep getting back up every time I got knocked down. Or when the investor told me, I don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight, I probably wouldn't have even processed it the same way I processed it had I not identified that deep, deep, deep fuel for why I was doing what I was doing. Similarly, all the years of the no's,

whether it was from L'Oreal who ended up buying our business or it was from Sephora or the department stores, I didn't have time to take them personally. Even though they hurt, even though our human nature wants to get resentful when people reject us or say we're not the right fit for them or whatever. I was really driven by like a way bigger thing I wanted to do, right? And so like I didn't have time and I never took any of them personally. I literally just made my, I just, I made the decision that like I was going to change the beauty industry. So they just didn't get it yet. And if they're saying no to our products, like I feel bad for them. They're just robbing their customer of a great experience and they're just delaying changing lives. And like, I would just tell myself those things and believe them because I did that, that work of, you know, peeling back and

just doing the why beneath the why. Yeah, no, I love that. And I'm a complete believer in it as well. I think a lot of times we get to this place where we're trying to figure these things out. And we also, our intuition tells us that there's something there. Keep going. We have this deeper, in my language, I call it five levels of why. You just keep asking until you get to it. Yeah. of why you just keep asking until you get to it. And for me, when I, this goes back to our early

conversation, I know that it's it when I actually feel it. If I keep throwing out an answer, because I come up with a lot of language, I can come up with a lot of compelling things that I can post on a brand statement and all this and that, and that looks sexy in a pitch document. And I know it will accomplish a specific goal, but if I don't actually feel it, for me, the tell is I physically will start to shake. My heart will race. I will get teary. If I'm not there, I know like, okay, so I've got some good reasons here. But like you said, and those reasons very often, I think they'll get us through 80, 90% of the challenges that come our way. But when you're building something really substantial and it's long-term, it's that last 10 to 20% of the stuff that's really brutal

that the surface level just doesn't get you through, you know, and you've got to, like, those are the things where you're on your knees. And if you don't have that deeper visceral embodied, why you're not going to get up, you're going to walk away or crawl away. But it's a, it's a hard process often. And sometimes it's a process. I don't, I'm curious whether you feel this way. Sometimes for me, it's been this process of leaning into it and then stepping away and revisiting it and stepping away and creating space for my subconscious brain to let it emerge over time. And it's like you'll be walking down the street and it just comes.

You're like, oh, that. Yeah. And you know when it feels yeah and you know when it feels right no exactly and and what you said too and i think because you just use the word surface level why and i think that a lot of people because their why sounds so good they don't realize it's still to surface you know what i mean they don't realize that so i love that you're even using that language and i do feel it too. Like it's the exact same thing.

And you just kind of like it's that feeling of knowing, right? It's almost like when you're in a creative mode and you're in flow, it's almost like flow of knowing or something, that feeling. And I do believe everyone can have it. I do believe that. But I do think that it does take practice and it takes a lot of unlearning in some cases of what we listen to as well. Yeah. I'm curious. And when you bring up the word practice, I'm a big believer in just practices

that allow us to increase our general level of awareness of the world around us and also our awareness of what's happening within us. I'm a long time meditator and pranayama practitioner. I'm curious whether there are a set of practices that you turn to to tap into this or to let it flow more readily. Yeah. I mean, for me, two things. So I do meditate every single day in the morning, usually around 4.30 or 5 early. And so that for me is how I get still. But I still, every day when I meditate, I still have thoughts flying through my head or my to-do list comes up or any of that. Like still to this day. Oh yeah. I'm 10 years into a daily meditation practice and I'm like, of 25 minutes, I'm like, I got a good two minutes in there.

You do too. Okay. Yeah. So it's like, it's still a work in progress. I just really pay, I just pay attention to that, that feeling, that knowing, and I try to trust it and, you know, I'm getting better at it, but I think it's a lifelong journey. Uh, you know, there's still things like I share in the book that after going my whole life with Oprah as my mentor, I'd never met that I had this crazy experience, which I won't share all of it, of how I did meet her and what happened after and how, you know, when she and I had lunch together at her house, she gave me her cell phone number and said, you can call me anytime. Like call me anytime. And that was three years ago. And to this day, when I want to get her thoughts on my book,

or I have something I want to share with her, an idea, or like I text her or I'll email her, I've literally never called her number. And I didn't understand this for a while, but when I really did the work on it, I'm like, oh, deep down inside, I actually still, I think I've gotten there in so many areas of my life where I'm like, oh, I believe I belong in this room. I believe, even though they're all telling me no, I've learned to believe and trust myself. I'm right. All these things. And I talk about all the things I've learned on how to believe in myself, trust myself.

But it's a journey. It's a journey because I realized, wow, I still think my own vibration needs to be higher to actually be worthy of calling Oprah's cell phone right now. And like, I'm not proud of that because I know it's not true. I know it's not true, but it's still one of many things where I'm like, oh, okay. I've still have to now learn to believe I am worthy in that area too. So it's a journey, I think, for all of us, a lifelong journey of really stepping into all of who we are and also knowing we're enough and worthy exactly as we are. Yeah. And cultivating the self-awareness to be able to see it or feel it. Yeah.

You reach a point where you build this company into something pretty stunning. After these three years of negotiations or conversations, doing the dance with L'Oreal, they acquire it. And then you stay on for sort of like the typical three years of a founder, honoring the responsibility to be there for the consulting agreement. And then 2019, you step away from this thing that you've been building for essentially a decade. And this thing, which was not just a product company, not just a company, not just a mission, but it was a fairly substantial part of your identity, your reason for being for that window of time. When you step away from something like that, I'm curious what it's like when you wake up the next morning for you and how you reorient around purpose. Yeah. The whole thing with L'Oreal acquiring IT Cosmetics was wild. It was their largest acquisition in L'Oreal history.

And they made me their first woman to hold a CEO title in their 107-year history at the time of any brand. And it was an interesting thing because I'd given them my word I would stay for three years, but there's actually nothing holding me to it financially. But I think that when people believe in you, it's good to do whatever you can to prove them right. And three years post-acquisition with L'Oreal, I just had this strong, strong feeling that I was called to serve in a totally different way. And it was time. And I think when we share through the power of story, I think there's a lot of people out there that don't have a faith practice or spiritual practice, but they connect through

the power of story and it's where they get their hope or where they feel less alone. And I just had this really strong feeling it was time, but it was hard. It was really hard. And I love the team I built, like family. So that was hard too. But the blessing in all of it is L'Oreal is a massive machine. And the company is in such great hands and scaling and they're keeping, you know, the authentic mission of the brand and all that. So it's, it's like good, you know, and, but, you know, I knew it was time. And, and, and the crazy thing too, Jonathan, was that in all the early years, when I could barely, like, like, you know, my husband and I, a great date night was like the dollar hot dog at Costco at the, what I mean? I mean, it was not glamorous for most of our journey. And then I spent 150 plus nights a year at the hotel outside

of QVC for eight years and did 250 live shows. Most of the journey was not glamorous. And by the time L'Oreal had acquired at Cosmetics, I remember, I think it was the month I left, I had a brand new corner office in like a 60,000 square foot office that was just for our brand. And it was my office over like the entire Manhattan skyline. And I remember sitting in this office that was like my own corner office, more beautiful than any home or apartment I'd ever, ever, ever been in. And looking around going, wow, I'm in this moment in my life where all of a sudden all the things around me that tell, that reinforce the sense of significance are all around me now. And I can stay here and I can sit here and I can have this kind of life I

see in movies now. Like, holy crap, that's crazy, right? But I also remember looking at all this pretty stuff all around me. And I remember the respect I feel so blessed and grateful to have earned inside the company. But then you also get a whole new world of significance outside when you sell your company for a billion dollars, right? So all that stuff was happening. And yet I had this knowing that this is the end of a chapter. This isn't where I'm going to stay and sit and have this now really fun, fancy, like the glamorous parts just starting. And yet, why does it feel like now's the time I should leave? But I just, I felt that knowing because I'd never shared like the story behind the story of anything. And what I do know for sure is when we're able to share the things we've gone through or learned for something greater than ourselves, that's where I feel

fulfilled. That's where fulfillment comes, not from the fancy things or the things that tell us we're significant from the outside. And so like making that decision to bare my face on QVC, I made the decision that I guess it was really the first biggest moments of glamour and significance from the outside, that that wasn't where I was supposed to be anymore. And it was hard and very sad and very emotional, but I felt peace about it. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting hearing you share your story and where you've landed right now. Your husband's name is Paolo and similar to a really famous author, Paolo Quaglio, who wrote a book called The Alchemist, which is really about the hero's journey, the heroine's journey. And the punchline at the end is you come back to basically who

you've always been, but you have to go out into the world and be brought to your knees and discover all this stuff in order to understand the truth of that journey and the truth of where you started and the importance of that thing. And it feels like you have, there's this full circle moment in your heroine's journey where you've made this journey back to yourself and then you're turning back around to society and saying, here's what I know. It's a very powerful moment to be in. It feels like a good place for us to come full circle as well. So hanging out here in this container of Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? To trust yourself and to learn how. Learn how to hear yourself and then trust yourself. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening.

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Because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold. See've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die.

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