Good Life Project - Jonathan & Cyndie | Turning the Mic on Jonathan

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

This episode will be unlike any conversation we’ve ever aired on Good Life Project. For the first time on the podcast, I’m on the other side of the mic. And, to be honest, the thought of it kind of terrifies me. Even now, with it’s recorded and I know how it went and what’s on tape, it still kind of terrifies me. I’m pretty comfortable asking the questions, and even answering questions on other people’s shows. This, however, is different. Today, I asked my dear friend, big-hearted human, renowned keynote speaker, community builder, “personal power alchemist,”* bestselling author, and all-around truth-teller, Cyndie Spiegel, to sit in the interviewer’s seat and not let me off the hook. That’s exactly what she did, in the kindest, but also realest way possible. I trusted her to push me into places I never go, topics I never speak about. This was a conversation that made me squirm, in the best of ways.Why would I do this? Because, by the time you’re listening to this, my new book SPARKED, will be out, or literally hours away. It’s a book about being seen, reclaiming agency and control, reimagining the way we work, and the way our work makes us feel. This book, it’s been a wild adventure that is so close to my heart in ways and on levels nothing else I’ve written has approached. Penned in the throes of the pandemic, living semi-nomadically for most of it, the journey to get here has been equally hard, beautiful, heartbreaking, heart-opening, eye-opening, and transformative. I wanted to sit down with someone who knows me well enough, who I trust enough, to take me to all those places of discomfort and vulnerability that I rarely talk about on the air. Sure, we touch into the big ideas and key awakening and insights in the book, but this conversation is about so much more. The creative process, the role of vulnerability, love, devotion, revelation, and grace.I’m both freaked out, and incredibly excited to share it with you. I’m Jonathan Fields, turning the mic over to Cyndie Spiegel, and this is Good Life Project.If you LOVED this episode:I have a single ask: Join me on this journey. Pick up a copy of SPARKED wherever you buy books. We’ll drop links to various booksellers. Dive into it, discover your own personal Sparketype. Then begin to bring it to the world. Because right now, we need people who’ve come alive, more than ever. Barnes & Noble | Amazon | Books-a-Million | iTunes | AudibleCheck out our offerings & partners: My New Book SparkedMy New Podcast SPARKEDVisit Our Sponsor Page For a Complete List of Vanity URLs & Discount Codes. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So this episode, it's going to be unlike any other conversation we have ever aired on Good Life Project. For the first time on the podcast, I'm on the other side of the mic. And to be honest, the thought of it kind of terrifies me. Even now with it recorded and I know how it went and what's on tape, it still kind of terrifies me. Even now with it recorded and I know how it went and what's on tape, it still kind of terrifies me. I'm pretty comfortable asking the questions and even answering questions on other people's shows. This, however, is different. Today, I asked my dear friend, big hearted human, renowned keynote speaker, community builder, personal power alchemist,

bestselling author, and all-around truth teller, Cindy Spiegel, to sit down in the interviewer's seat and not let me off the hook. And that is exactly what she did in the kindest, but also the realist way possible. I trusted her to push me into places I generally never go, topics I generally never speak about. This was a conversation that made me squirm in the best of ways. So why would I do this? Because by the time you're listening to this, my new book sparked, it'll be out or literally hours away. It's a book about being seen, reclaiming agency and control, re-imagining the way we work and the way our work makes us feel. This book, it's been a wild adventure that is so close to my heart in ways and on levels

nothing else I have written has approached. Pinned in the throes of the pandemic, living semi-nomadically for most of it. The journey to get here has been equally hard and beautiful and heartbreaking and heart-opening and eye-opening and transformative. And I wanted to sit down with someone who knows me well enough, who I trust enough to take me to all of those places of discomfort and vulnerability that I rarely talk about on air. Sure, we touch into the big ideas and the key awakenings and insights in the book, and I'm proud of them and they're valuable. But this conversation, this conversation

is also about so much more. The creative process, the role of vulnerability, love, relationships, devotion, revelation, and grace. I am both freaked out and incredibly grateful and excited to share it with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, turning the mic over to Cindy Spiegel, and this is Good Life Project. We'll be right back. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,

whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations iphone 10s or later required charge time and actual results will vary clearly i'm just a fan of everything you do in addition to being a friend you know i'm also just i just believe very deeply and what this book is and i know that it will create impact uh in a way

that other books that I've read have not been able to. Not that they're not impactful, but this is a very special book. And I truly believe that this is a special book. Before I get into why I feel that way, what is this new book? What is this Sparkotype? What is it? So the book is based on a set of archetypes that I have been developing for a lot of years now. And it started out with the question, what should I do with my life? Which was a question I've been asking my whole life and stumbling and struggling and trying and running a million experiments trying to answer.

And as I've gotten more clarity on how it shows up in my own life, I also realized that that question is a little bit of an illusion of a question because when most people ask that, what they're really asking is how do I find a new work that makes me feel alive, that gives me a sense of purpose and meaning and wakes me up in the morning so I'm excited and energized and kind of lets me lose myself in flow and lets me feel like I have a sense of purpose and I'm not holding back. It's the thing that I'm here to do. And as I deepened into that question, I got really curious about what makes everybody feel that way.

I started to figure it out for me, but I was wondering, you know, I wonder if there are some sort of set of universal impulses for work that kind of wakes you up in the morning and says, just do more of this and you'll feel this way for everybody beneath all the millions of jobs and titles and roles and all the surface level, yada, yada, yada. And I started to really wonder, could you identify these? Do they even exist? And then if you could, could you figure out how to help people discover theirs? And that's become, you know, honestly,

that's probably been a two decades journey for me in no small part kicked off by what is also just around the 20th anniversary of 9-11, where I was in New York, married with a new home, three-month-old baby, signed a lease, a six-year lease for a floor in a building to open what I hoped would become a premier yoga center in New York the day before 9-11. Woke up the next day. And like everybody knew somebody who didn't come home that day. And also wondered to myself, are we really going to launch a business into this sea of suffering at this moment in time? And a moment during the first 48 hours or so really reminded me that we only have one shot. We have one pass through in this form, in this shape, and you got to make the best of it. So we went ahead and launched it.

And that moment, there had been things that happened to me before that. There was a huge shift that happened to me back when I was a lawyer that shook me into reality and said, do something that matters. But that moment in particular, it became a much more, I think, powerful inciting incident to really deepen into these questions because I didn't want to waste my time. And as I moved into the world of wellness and wellbeing and human potential and service and yoga, and then eventually started writing books and all that stuff, I started to want to investigate the question more broadly and create tools for other people in terms of living a good life. And then I kept getting narrower and narrower into this question of work. Because it's the thing that most of us do for most of our waking hours for our entire lives. So I really explored this question of can we identify a set of impulses? And I was so surprised

when the answer was yes, to be honest with you. Because had you asked me earlier, I'd probably been like, nah, that seems way too packaged, way too slick, way too markety, way too sort of, you know, like self-helpy worldy. And my rational brain is always, you know, looking for validated answers. But I kept digging underneath, you know, the giant list of industries and roles and titles and jobs and distilling and conflating things down. I was like, huh, I landed with these 10 different impulses. And every time I looked at a different thing, like I could start to identify what's underneath it. And then you start to talk to different people and you ask them a certain

set of questions and prompts, and you can get to this thing pretty quickly. And I was like, this is kind of real. And then the more people I talked to, I started thinking, well, you know, each one of these impulses also gets this own, you know, it kind of is wrapped in its own set of quirky tendencies and preferences and behaviors and things that we do with that are really good and things that we do that totally trip us up that are really common with each one of these that form these archetypes around them. And just for the fun of it, I call them sparkotypes for the archetype for work that sparks you. And then I really figured out, I said to myself, how do I take this to scale, both to validate the idea or invalidate it? I was open to the fact that it was real or not. And then maybe create a tool that people could interact with that would help them figure it out

for themselves. So we spent most of 2018 building this assessment and moving people through beta levels and beta levels and designing it. It kept breaking over and over and we had to rework it and change the language and all this stuff. And finally, we released it in 2019 broadly to the public and it was like, I couldn't believe what happened. To date, more than 500,000 people have completed this assessment. Thousands more are taking it every week. 25 million, probably growing towards 30 million data points underneath it now. So amazing validation and insights and nuance. And just like then from that, so many stories, like story after story after story, and then use cases and organizations and all sorts of different things that gave such a richer understanding of what these

things are and that they are in fact real. And then just the notion that, you know, we've got a tool out there that anyone can interact with that's free. And it was important to me that that be free, that it's accessible to anyone. That might help, might help them answer this question for themselves. And then, and then you asked your original question was this book, what? Yes. Eventually, you know, my head starts to explode because there's so much stuff pouring into it. Yes.

And a lot of people are coming to me to ask all the questions about all the types and all the things. So the book is part distillation of everything that's in my head, part survival mechanism so that we can have a thing, a social object that goes out into the world that anybody can look at and see themselves more truly, more clearly, and know that there is this thing in them and that it's real and that it matters and that they feel seen and understood and that they have language too, to both explain themselves to themselves and then to turn out to people around them and say, this is me. If you really want to understand me, whether it's an intimate partner or a leader or a team member that like, if you understand this about me, the way that we

interact, the way that we do this dance of life and work together is going to be so much more productive and enjoyable and friction free. And that's really why the book became a thing that had to be. A word you didn't use that I'm surprised you didn't use, because this is the first thing that came to me as I read the book, is that it is incredibly validating. It is validating. I know who I am in the world. I know the work that I do in the world. It's taken me a little while to get here, but I got here. And still I read this book and I've learned so much. And I thought, I want everyone that I know to read this book. Because it, in many ways, sort of, it teaches us about not only ourselves, but other people, and how they react and respond, and things that, you know, we live in a linear world where I think so much feels personal.

And when we start to learn about other people in these ways, it changes the game. Because we can then begin to really respect them for who they are and to work with them differently. And when I say work with them, I don't just mean in the workplace. Like I think about, for example, Ira, you know, my husband, I can be with him differently. He can be with me differently when we understand each other in a way that is deeper than what we could know without the work that you've created. So before I keep going, I want to thank you for this because I don't think you yet know the impact that this book is going to have.

I really don't. You're very humble and I love you for that. And I don't think that you really understand the impact of what you've created. So thank you. Thank you for that. And you know, I'm trying to get better at accepting kind words.

I kind of, as I've written to a large community recently, I really suck at it, but thank you. And that is my hope for it. You know, it's one of the reasons that it's out there in the world. And it is interesting that you use the word validated because that is very likely with all the feedback that we get on a regular basis, that is probably the singular word that comes back to us the most. People don't say I'm surprised very often. They're like, oh no, this is actually,

I've known this for my entire life, but there are so many things that have led me to either push it aside or push it down or ignore it or say like, not really, or maybe it's not socially appropriate or it's not gonna be acceptable. So I'm not gonna center my energy around it, but they know, they still know that it matters.

It's intuitive. Yeah, and being able to reflect back and say, no, actually this is real and it does matter. That word, it comes back to us so many times that it's just like, yeah, it's very validating. Nobody can validate anybody from the outside in, but if you just can reflect, it's like a mirror is what I was trying to create effectively. That's right. It gives a why to our behaviors, a why for ourselves, right? Sometimes we question why we do the things we do and how we do the

things we do. And oftentimes we think we're alone in that. And I think the beauty of being able to distill this down to 10 is that clearly of all the people in the entire world, if this can be distilled down to 10, we are not alone. Yeah. And that's been a huge thing, especially I think the impulses, the fundamental impulses, knowing that you're not alone in that is one thing. But then when I started to discover all of these fun strains, mainstream awesome behaviors and tendencies and quirks that wrap around them, those are the things where people are like, oh wait, this weird thing that I do or this feeling that I have that's wrapped around it, I'm not the only one who feels this. And you're like, no, actually probably millions and millions of other people feel that very same thing. Just nobody's talking about it.

That's right. Well, no one has necessarily given us language for it either. We will be talking about it and we are talking about it and we're going to continue to talk about it. So I have obviously read the book. I've taken the test. I took the test, the quiz. How do you refer to it? I call it an assessment because it sounds fancy. It does sound fancy. For regular people like me, it's a quiz that we can take. That's totally cool too. So I took this quiz and I have to say, again, not surprised, right? I am an advocate sage Advocate Sage. And my anti-sparketype is maker. And what I realized is that had you asked me about this before I took the quiz slash assessment, if you're fancy, I would have just assumed that I

was a maker. Now, again, I know what I do in the world, Jonathan. I'm fairly secure. This has just blown open so many things. And it's also been very permission giving for me and forgiving for myself to say, this is why having to build something doesn't work for you. It's not the thing that I should be doing. And I think so many of us are often trying to get better at things that are just not meant for us to get better at. They are the things that are most difficult for us to do. And what you've done in distilling these archetypes really is given us permission to say, you know what? I am much better suited to these other ways of being. And that is a beautiful thing. Why don't I just lean into that? Why couldn't I just lean into that? Instead of having to constantly struggle

and really sort of have this uphill battle where we're constantly struggling against the thing. Like I now realize because a maker is my anti-sparketype that I don't have to be the one to build all the things. I shouldn't be the one to build the things. There are other things that I can be doing that are much more suited for me. And I think that this book and this body of work in general, I know I keep referring to the book because the book is coming out, but it's really this entire body of work is going to change the world because there are so many folks that I think are doing work that they shouldn't necessarily be doing in the world. And when I say shouldn't, I mean for themselves.

It's not serving them. But we listen, you know, we follow a ladder and we do the thing we think we're supposed to do. And it often takes us to places that don't make us happy, that don't bring us joy, that don't make us feel as if the work we're doing in the world matters. And I think the tools that you've created in this body of work shifts, it changes everything. It blows that open in a very cool way. Yeah. I love that. It's interesting also to hear. So I didn't know what your sparkotype was. I didn't tell you. I just shared it right now. I know. I know it's very intentional, but we've known each other.

We're friends. And I know, I look at everything that you touch, you walk into your apartment and it's beautiful and you've made all these different things and the colors are perfect. And you had this big, long career in an industry which is known for creating really cool stuff in the fashion industry. And yet, actually what you shared makes total sense, especially as I've sort of looked at the way that you've stepped into the world over the last few years in particular as such a strong champion for very specific people and community and ideas and ideals. And that is the fundamental impulse behind the advocate, right? And as somebody who is there to awaken insight, which is the impulse behind the sage, like you are there and you're like, I'm learning a ton of stuff and I'm figuring out a ton

of stuff, but I'm not keeping it for myself. Like this is, you all need to come along with me and learn all of this stuff too. And that is such a core set of impulsor for you. It makes it from the outside looking in, it makes total sense. Yeah. Again, you know, I think reading this, nothing was like, no, no way, this is wrong. I'm like, of course, of course, first of all, Jonathan figured this out. But also it's true. It is 100% accurate. So I want to go back to something that you said earlier, which is really this comes down

to what do I do in the world? What should I be doing in the world? I'm paraphrasing. What have you done in the world? What has been your work in the world? What should I be doing in the world? I'm paraphrasing. What have you done in the world? What has been your work in the world? So the first thing that comes to me, like without even thinking about like jobs or any of the different businesses, brands, books, all the yada yada, is I'm a dad and a husband, you know, which is interesting because my fundamental, so my primary sparky type

is the maker. So I make ideas manifest. I wake up in the morning and I create, and yet the work that I hold most dear to me and nourishes me more than anything else in the world is being a dad and a husband. And, and I've wondered sometimes, you know, like, where did those two intersect? It's not just a values thing. Yes, my values are to be there and to provide and to be present, but there's something deeper. And what I found is that I found ways to make things as a way to channel my devotion to my family, whether it's creating moments, creating experiences, creating physical objects alongside my daughter. My daughter and I are wired very similarly. So we have become co-creators in so many projects together. When we were in New York, we would go and do workshops at a little letterpress shop in Brooklyn and just learn how to use these big old machines and typesetting with these old lead letters and woodblock letters from

the 40s and 50s and side by side. And you're like, it is the most inefficient way to do anything. And yet we were just in there together, loving this process and sharing that process has been amazing. I'm working with my wife. We were in partnership in life and in business. So we co-create everything together. We're in this business where I create on the media side and things like that. And then we've had these events and gatherings internationally and in summer camps. And she's this stunning experience designer. So we're in there collaborating in this co-creative process. And it's been a really powerful bridge to see that this impulse in me that is so central to the way that I move through also lines up really well.

And I can find a way to let it out in so many different ways in the context of my deep devotion to what I see as my primary role in life, which is to be present as a dad and a husband. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are.

So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman.

I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. so of course all of that is true of you what I love is that your default was not your career, which is long and storied and brilliant in so many ways, but that was not the default answer. Your default answer was family. And I know that about you. And I think that that's something that's really important for people to understand about this book and this body of work is the impact that it has on us as human beings, aside from the work that we do in the world, the impact that it has on the relationships that we have and understanding them in a deeper way. Again, you know, I speak about my husband, Ira, and you talk about your family. I'm in no way surprised that so much of that maker comes out in ways that are familial, that comes out in ways in

which you interact with your family. So what you mentioned was that Stephanie, I guess what you didn't mention is that she's actually your boss, not just your... Yeah. It really works better that way. Yeah. For everybody. What is Stephanie's sparkotype? She's actually a maker too. And I believe an advocate as her shadow. I am honestly, my entire team is my boss. Right.

It works really, really well that way. Our podcast producer, Lindsay. Yes. You know, she tells me what to do and where to go and how to do things and manages the editorial schedule and our launch manager, Courtney. It's like they are, I once had somebody that we brought on as a high level project manager to launch something and we brought her in and she said, we can do this one of two ways, right?

You can be my boss or I can be your boss. Which do you want? And I was like, you need to be my boss. Particularly now. Right. I am completely happy playing that role. Just tell me what you need me to do and I will knock it out. I am big picture. I'm very much a visionary and I'm a futurist and I'm constantly thinking of the next thing that I want to build and create. But when it comes time to actually actualize that and get into the nitty gritty and process and all this stuff, yeah, I'm very happy being a cog in a system. I can say that I don't think anyone has ever described you that way,

just for the record. I think a cog in a system is not a thing that we think of when we think of you. In a system that I helped basically create. That you have created. Yes. That's different. That's different. So I remember when we spoke about this book coming out, I don't know, it may have been a year ago, Jonathan. And I remember saying to you, I said, holy shit. But I remember saying to you that I don't think any work could be this important in this particular moment outside of this? It's 2021, last I checked, I think. I don't even know anymore. Why do you think this work is so relevant today? Yeah. Somebody actually recently said, what amazing timing. And I was like, I didn't plan

this. I didn't intend it. But I feel like the work was really important because there has been a growing discontent and existential questioning for probably a generation and a half now. But it was, I'm a Gen Xer. And so for my generation, you kind of don't talk about it, you know, because it's not socially acceptable. And if you do, it's like, oh, midlife crisis, too bad, burned out, moved on, like couldn't hack it. Then you've got a whole generation of millennials and Gen Y and Gen X where they're so much more wired.

It's part of the culture to actually expect more from the thing that they show up to do. You're like, this should give me a sense of purpose. This should be meaningful to me. I should be excited about this. In a way, my generation had no, we didn't have our finger on the pulse of that. And now we enter this moment right now, right? Where every assumption, every limitation, every expectation has been completely shattered. The model of the world as we know it has been turned upside down, especially in the context of work where in every way, in every possible way,

has been completely broken apart. And it's no longer certain generations with certain expectations that are in this questioning and have a different set of expectations. It is all of us. And sometimes from a place of privilege, sometimes from a place of extreme loss and constraint, sometimes from a place of like anywhere in constraint, sometimes from a place of like anywhere in the middle, they're having a job, not having a job, but we're all dropped into this moment where we're like, okay, so the thing that got me here and made me feel this way,

I may have made a bargain that I was okay with up until now, but now that everything's been turned upside down and I feel like I'm being invited to examine the bargain that I made and decide whether it's a bargain that I want to keep going or whether I want to make a whole new one for this next season of life. We are all in that together. We didn't ask to be here. And there's a lot of pain that has come along with putting us in this moment. But at the same time, there's a sense of questioning, existential

questioning, and a sense of possibility, and a sense of it's actually okay to share the fact that I'm in this moment now, that I'm asking the existential questions, that I may end up doing something really different or choose a different path. I can share that now in a way that I never felt was okay socially to share it. So we're seeing this mass scale re-examination of everything in the midst of just complete societal wide disruption. And for me, people are talking about they're calling it the big quit or the great resignation. Here's my big concern with this moment.

My big concern is that we'll say like, boom, blowing everything up, you know, or we're just saying like, okay, I agree. I'm reexamining everything. And I don't want to keep feeling the way that I've been feeling. It would be amazing if the thing that I showed up and did can contribute to the world and make me feel differently and give me so much more back. So I'm going to look for a different job or a different title or a different company or a different role and see which one just kind of seems like it checks the boxes on the job description of what I think would be cool. And then I'm going to go

and do it. And then 18 months from now, I'm going to be sitting in a new office in a new company with a new boss on a new team, working on a new project, feeling the exact same way. That's right. Because I never actually took the time to just hit pause and do the work to figure out what do I actually need? You know, like what, what is the thing? Who am I? What fills me up? What empties me out?

And what is that deeper impulse for work that I need to satisfy to get that feeling that I need to feel? And then once you do that work, look at it, the universe of jobs and possibilities and all the other stuff and start to figure out, like run those experiments to see which will be a fit from a place where you're just so much better informed. You talked about this examination, right, of our lives that collectively we are all going through. And when we take that break, right, that moment to think about where we wanna go next

versus this idea of just going to the next thing, right, getting the next job, what do you think the impact of that is? What is the impact of this re-examination that's happening collectively? I think of it on two levels, right? One personally, could it literally change the way that you feel for the rest of your life about the thing you wake up and do five, six, seven days a week for maybe decades more? Could it change in a profound way, the way that you experienced that? Could you wake up and actually say,

oh, you know the thing that I'm doing? It actually matters to me. It's really deeply meaningful to me. Could it make you feel like, oh my God, like do this. I start at 8 a.m. I blink and it's 8 p.m. And it is the most immersive, absorbing, joyful, nourishing experience that I can imagine. Could you feel like you show up and you're not hiding and that there's this well of potential that you've known your whole life is kind of like just out there, but you haven't figured out what it is or what it looks like or how to access it.

And somehow you're like, Ooh, the gates of that are open and you just have a strong sense of purpose. You know, so on a personal level, if you could show up and get as much of that as you can from this moment through the day that you stop working, or at least, you know, for even if you stop working for money, you're going to keep working. You're going to keep investing yourself and devoting yourself to different things literally until your last breath, very likely. Could you feel that way? If we can do that on a personal level. Now imagine what happens on a societal level and on a global level. If we are so much more nourished by what we're doing, we show up and we express ourselves more fully. We're seen for who we are. We are so much more

of our best self. We perform at a much higher level, not because somebody's dangling a carrot or a stick in front of us, but because we're doing the thing we can't not do. And so the output for business and for industry in terms of innovation and solving these big, wicked problems that we have, when millions or tens of millions or hundreds of millions of people start to show up as their best self, harnessing everything that they have and working harder than they ever have simply because of the feeling it gives them. And oh yeah, how awesome that I get well-paid to do this too. I mean, the ability to solve big problems and to step into the next season of society and the world, I just imagine the potential that gets unlocked there. And it's kind of mind blowing

if we could do that. And I'm not saying that I have all the answers, but if I can even be a person who can offer a single idea into that process that might help get people just a step closer to that state. To me, we're in a moment where we need that personally and we need that societally. We need it globally more than ever. We need it collectively. And this book, and I know I keep saying this, it just has the potential to do so much of what you just talked about. Now, you use some words, and I'm sitting here and I'm taking down notes, right? But you use words that really stood out to me, potential, nourishment, being seen, innovation. And as I

think about you, your career, but also you as a friend, I think, well, Jonathan has always been this. You have always created that, right? You've always seen that in other people. And somehow you're just now creating this book. Tell me how this book differs from the other books that you've written. I should have warned you. A couple different ways. Yeah, I am almost pathologically steeped in possibility. And not Pollyannistic or delusional, but I am definitely like,

there's something about my wiring that kind of sees disruption and I immediately know that if that exists, possibility must also be in the ether. They cannot exist without, one can't exist without the other. So I think everything that I've done in my past, whether it's been in the fitness world and launched a company that was hopefully changing

the lives of people in a very intimate way to owning a yoga studio and building this beautiful, big global community of students and teachers in New York City for seven years, or whether it was writing books or hosting media and creating conversations, the red thread that connects it all is this deep fascination with human potential and how to unlock it in real, grounded, practical, actionable ways. And there is very much an emerging woo-woo side to me. Is it emerging? It's pretty solid. It's been emerging for a pretty long time, actually. It's there. It's there for sure. The older I get, the more open I am to the fact that some things just are, even if I can't deconstruct or analyze or prove them. And yet,

I feel like so much of what I have created up until this moment is putting my spin, my synthesis, my interpretation on the overlap between other people's work. And no doubt, a lot of incredible different domains and conversations and experience have gone into this current body of work around the sparketypes. But this is the most original thing I've ever done in that these impulses weren't something where I turned to a book or a study or something where I saw them listed before and said, hey, do these feel real to me or not? Let me sort of put my spin on these things that exist already. These were things that

I pulled down out of the ether and then started to associate, you know, different fields to understand, you know, so when I say, when I use the word coming alive, you know, like imprints for work that makes you come alive, I deconstruct coming alive into these five components that I keep talking about. And I know that there's actually a big body of research about each one of these different five components. So I know that those are real, they're validated, they make a difference in the way that we feel, our ability to flourish, the way we contribute to work and the world. And yet this set of imprints is something that didn't exist in any of those. This is something that emerged out of my head and is then tethered back to a state, which is the sweet spot between a whole bunch of other states where there's a lot of science. So it's a little bit nerve wracking, to be honest with you, in a way that, you know, I've always taken risks when I've created new things in the world. fitness company. Basically, our guidance was we're going to do the exact opposite of everything the

fitness industry does. So I've always been a bit of a maverick and a contrarian, and it worked. And we did a really similar thing in the yoga world. And when I first started Good Life Project, we started as a video series and we were filming hour-long conversations on video, on location with three camera crew. And people thought I was, they're like, what are you doing? Nobody's gonna watch this. How'd that work out? Okay. But this is different.

It's nerve wracking in that this is my heart, my thought process, my mind, my ideas on a level that I haven't exposed myself before. So as much as I hope and believe it will help as a maker who is also, you know, has an ego and wants to be accepted by those around, it's an interesting process for me being, feeling this exposed. You asked me before we started recording, how am I feeling? And I was like, you know, some good, some bad. And part of the angst is that, you know, is a level of exposure

for me that I feel like as a maker, it kind of has to be my next level because I've danced around everything that came before this enough and anything more, one more, one more dance of that becomes just pure replication. It's just not why I'm here. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,

whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. So this, this vulnerability that I'm hearing, that I'm reading, right? I'm reading from you and your newsletters and your work and our texts. This is new. And you speak to a lot of folks who, you know, you speak to the mother of vulnerability in

some ways. You, not in some ways, you do. And so many of us have stepped into this place of being vulnerable in a public way. And this is quite new for you. So you're usually on the other side of this. Yeah. It's not easy or fun. Right. Not fun. I've been talking about this for years. I've known Brene Brown for, I think, a decade now. And we sat down on the podcast way back when we were filming, when she was just really deepening into this and staking and putting her flag in the ground around vulnerability and bravery.

And I nodded along and I've been nodding along and interviewing the most amazing researchers and people and talking about it in the world and doing it a bit. Something has changed, honestly. And I'm not entirely sure what's been flipping the switch, but I think it's a dimmer switch. So it's not just like, here I am, Mr. Vulnerable. Maybe it's a moment in my life. Maybe it's over the last 18 months being brought back to a place that I was 20 years ago at 9-11, reminded how fleeting life is and how nothing happens between two human beings that is truly good and rich that doesn't involve you stripping away the shields.

And maybe it's an acknowledgement of the fact that I am very much in the back nine of my life. Not that I'm a golfer, but I have no idea where that metaphor came from right now. For non-golfers, what does that mean now. For non-golfers, what does that mean exactly? For non-golfers, there's invariably less time ahead of me than there is behind me at this point in my life. And I want to make the most of that in as many ways that I can. And a lot of that means starting to get comfortable with being open on a level that

removes barriers between me and people who I see as awesome human beings and I want to be closer to. So thank you for that. We talked about impact before and the impact of this work. What do you think will be the impact of this, I hate to say it this way, but newfound vulnerability for you and you showing up in the world in this way, which quite frankly, we don't often see in men. Yeah. I honestly don't know how to answer that question. Maybe because I don't think about it that way. It makes me nervous to think in any way, shape or form that I'm modeling something that goes with you. You are. Let us just be clear that you are.

And by the way, this conversation is coming on the verge of me sending an email to our community that was one of the hardest things that I've written, basically asking for help. And I am not somebody who easily shows that I don't have all of my shit together and just opens up and says, hey, can you help me? And the impact for me, I hope, is just that it allows me to be closer to the people that I think are awesome human beings and maybe them to feel closer to me and not feel like there's always a bit of a wall up between us, which I've always thought was, you know, that's what you have to do in business, especially.

And to a certain extent, like, you know, I think the dance is you do have to create boundaries. There is an important role in having healthy boundaries, but healthy is the thing that is becoming increasingly interpreted for me. And what is that? Healthy for who? Healthy for what purpose? Healthy because it preserves a safe culture within a company.

Healthy because it allows us all to be flourishing human beings, healthy because it allows me to surround myself with people that I love being around and hopefully them to surround themselves with people they love being around simply because the norm has become that we all drop the shields and it's okay. It's a dance for me. And I don't know what the effect of me being more publicly that way is going to be. And in a weird way, I'm unconcerned about it. And I almost think I don't want to think about that because I don't want that to start to be a filter for how I choose to show up anymore. And the driver for your behavior. Yeah, exactly. Like, I don't want to start to be like, ooh, so how would the marketer leverage vulnerability? Because that, you know, and I can go there, you know, I'm a good enough

business builder, but that's not why I've been showing up that way increasingly, probably over the last couple of years, even. I think, and I know that you're uncomfortable with saying that you are modeling a behavior. I'm not uncomfortable with that for you, but you just said something that I think is really important. And you said, you know, and again, I'm paraphrasing. Essentially, you use the term having my shit together as if it is an opposition to vulnerability. Right? We are not vulnerable when we have our shit together as if it is an opposition to vulnerability, right? We are not vulnerable when we have our shit together. But the truth of the matter is, is that some of the most together

people I know are very vulnerable, and they lean into that in different ways. And so this idea that you've now, you know, as I think about the arc of your career, you've come to this place where you're putting this beautiful body of workout into the world in a new way. It is meeting you where you are too. It's this gift, I think, that as much as you are gifting this, and you may not see it that way, I'm certain you don't, but I do, you're gifting this to us. This work is meeting you in a place that you've never been before, this place of vulnerability. And this really is the most personal work you've ever done in many ways. And you're feeling into that. And I think there will be some incredible impact. And you don't have to think about what that impact is, right? You don't have to think about that from a business perspective, but I think being able to show up in the world in that way will have an impact that again,

you couldn't possibly understand right now. I think not just for men, by the way, but for so many of us who are used to looking at folks who we believe in and admire not showing vulnerability. And I think seeing this part of you is, I think there's, I have a whole newfound respect for you, you know, and I've always known that this was here because I feel like you do share it personally, you know, one-on-one, but I just think it's beautiful and powerful in a way that you can't possibly know. And I know that that's not why you're doing it. Thank you. You're welcome.

Yeah, I'm trying not to just throw up the, like, no. No, not me. Yeah, you know, I also, you planted the seed now, and I'm wondering why it's actually been emerging from me more. And I feel like, I think maybe part of it is, I feel like we're in a moment where we feel like so much our ability to really be truly with each other has been stripped away that if not now, when? That's right. And if I can just add to that, it's this time that we're in, right? Not only are we still in the midst of a pandemic, but 9-11, I was also in New York City

for 9-11. I think so much of this is necessary, you know, and it comes from this place. I think this vulnerability we're seeing in a lot of ways that we maybe haven't seen before, whether it's the way folks are being honest about what's happening in their lives during a pandemic, whether it's via newsletters or social media or newspapers, however it is that we're consuming this, I think we're seeing new levels of vulnerability. And I think that that vulnerability coupled with sparkotypes is incredibly powerful because what it means is that we're able to dig into this work in a way that's not topical anymore. We're able to understand ourselves in ways that aren't topical and we now have the

language to do so. This book gets me all teary and emotional. Really? This is powerful. As you're saying that, it's interesting. Way back when I was in the yoga world, I had the opportunity to study with a lot of different people and meet a lot of different people. And I was always looking for the oldest person that I could actually interact with because I wanted to get as close to this. I didn't want to go workshop with more like the hot young teachers on the scene who was touring the world and doing all like the fancy stuff and the cool moves. I was like, show me the 90 year old woman who, you know, is as close to the source. Like I wanted to get as close to the source of the teachings, the origin as humanly possible. And as you're sharing that, I'm realizing part of what I was actually probably searching for was not just getting as close to the source of the wisdom. So it's as unfiltered as it could be, but also as close to somebody who is at a moment in their lives where they've just dropped the shields because it just makes no sense to have them up anymore. And they're just

there in standing, sitting in their humanity as they are. And just saying, here I am, learn from me or not, I really could care less, but this is what I have to share with you. And I'm drawn to those people really, really fiercely. And maybe something in me is saying, I would love to start the process of maybe decades down the road, moving into a place of being one of those people. What if you are already one of those people? That's too trippy for me to think about. Just something to think about. So what is the source that you speak of, being closer to the source? What does that mean?

I look at it probably on two levels, wisdom and love. Closer to the source of wisdom, closer to the source of love. And maybe closer to the source of love is a little bit of an illusion because I think it actually emanates from all of us. There's no one source, right? I love Valerie Kaur's work and her notion that a stranger is just a part of you that you have not yet met. And that we are all just love underneath all of it. And we just have to open to it and see it in others. And closer to a source of wisdom in that I don't know what that is or who that is, but just, okay, here's an easy way to describe it. Remember when we were kids, you played the game telephone, right? And one person starts at one line and they say a sentence

and they pass it to the next person, the next person, next person, and then 20 kids later, it's a completely different sentence. Well, that happens with everything in life, right? With every piece of insight, every piece of information, every piece of wisdom, every initial hint of something that might matter. With every transmission, something gets reshaped into a different thing. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes it's really refined and optimized. It becomes more useful and more universal

and more inclusive. That's awesome. And even still, there's something in me that always wants to get me as close as possible to the primary source so that I can actually say, what is my interpretation? Like, how am I gonna pass this on to the next person in the telephone chain?

It's one of the reasons why on a Good Life Project, on the podcast for so many years, I love sitting down with primary researchers. I have no idea if the audience is, if our Austin community is as geeked out and interested and psyched as me. But when I can sit down with somebody who's actually in the lab doing the research and just ask them, pepper them with all the questions about the abstracts and the studies that they're doing, I would much rather do that than read a book by a popular science writer

who has cited their work and now it's their spin of the original thing. I want to talk to the researcher and find out. And then I'll figure out what is my spin on that? What is my interpretation of it? And then what do you do with that information once you figure out your spin? Sometimes nothing. Sometimes it's just my own personal set. It's like, wow, that was kind of cool. I have no legitimate use for this in the world other than the fact that I'm a complete and utter nerd and I just think it's kind of cool to know.

And then sometimes it goes into my maker process. I was so fortunate to sit down with somebody who I know you know the name well, Milton Glaser, who Lindsay, our producer, has reminded me more than once that he is the person who I cite more than any other past guest throughout the podcast. And there's a reason for that. He passed, I guess it was two years ago, on his birthday at the age of 91, having spent the vast majority of his life as a designer, maybe the, if not one of the most iconic designers in history, in modern history, and also an astonishingly generous human being. He taught for something like 40 years at Cooper Union. He shaped thousands of the designers who would go out into the world

and shape what we know as the world today without us even knowing it. His thumbprint is on literally everything. We have no idea the ripple and the impact that he's made. And I had this amazing opportunity to sit down with him when he was, I think, 86 years old for a conversation at his studio, which is still functioning fully with his team. He was working on a new show. And he said to me, he said, I've known what I wanted to do since I was six years old. I knew I wanted to make things.

He said, and then at some point my dad said to me, if you make things that help other people, you could earn a living doing that. And if you look at the homepage of my personal website these days, the top panel right next to my big black and white head has the words, I make things that move people. I'm somewhat agnostic as to what those things are on any given moment in time, but to be able to make things that go out into the world and actually make a difference,

make meaning beyond the pure fact that I have the ability to express this impulse that is meaningful to me, just that opportunity alone to then know that I could potentially be involved in creating something that goes out into the world and makes some kind of difference in other people's lives. It's pretty cool. I'd say so. You do, in fact, make things that move people and everything that you do, everything that you touch is so grounded in humanity and human potential in this beautiful marriage and in ways that I think so few people are able to do. So thank you. Thank you for saying that. I like watching you, by the way, because no one else knows this, but I love watching how uncomfortable these things are for you.

It's so time. My work in this season of life is not figuring out like cool new things to create. I got a list of those that will last me far past whatever days I have left on the planet and more than enough URLs hoarded to last way longer than that for whatever I decide to create. I think a lot of my work is getting comfortable with who I am and what I am and what I'm doing in the world. As I think that's the work for so many of us, right? Is just standing in the truth of who we are, as naked as we can stand and trusting that the right people will show up to hold us. Cheers to that. And I think not only standing in the truth, but squirming in it sometimes.

Yeah. As of right now. Right this moment. Well, I'm glad that I can see you. Indeed. Thank you for this conversation. Thank you so much for sharing it with me and guiding it and nudging us into some areas that I have never publicly talked about because I think it's a really good thing. And I appreciate you and I love you. And I'm really excited to share this conversation with the world. I love you back. Actually, I feel like we should end on a different note. Okay.

Talk to me about these URLs that you're collecting. They will forever. I'm a minimalist in like every part of my life, except one. I'm a massive URL hoarder. For anyone who didn't know this was a thing, it's a thing. Oh, it's totally a thing. And it is my disease. Well, thank you for that. I really think that is what we should all walk away from this conversation with. A hundred percent. Thank you. Take care, everyone. Hey, before you leave, if you love this episode today, I have a single ask. Join me in this

journey of becoming SPART. Pick up a copy of Sparked wherever you buy books. We'll drop links to various booksellers in the show notes. Dive into it, discover your own personal Sparketype, then begin to bring it to the world. Because right now, right now, we need people who've come alive more than ever. I'm Jonathan Fields signing off till next time. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not, just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push,

find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,

whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.