Good Life Project - Julián Castro | A Life of Purpose and Service

Episode Date: October 22, 2020

My guest today is former, U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, mayor of San Antonio, Texas and presidential candidate, Julián Castro. Today’s conversation is personal. Growing up in San Antonio, his love of the city, example of his grandmother’s devotion to family and hard work and his mom’s commitment to social justice and activism instilled a deep reverence for public service. He’d eventually head to college and then law school with his twin brother, Joaquin, before returning to San Antonio to immerse himself in the pursuit of making the city he loved the best, most equitable and inclusive place possible. He eventually became the youngest mayor of a Top 50 American city at the time, before rising up in the world of politics, But, for him, it wasn’t about politics, it was about service, about honoring the examples of his mom and nana to help others. Much if this story is shared in Secretary Castro’s memoir, An Unlikely Journey: Waking Up from My American Dream. He currently hosts Lemonada Media's hit podcast, Our America with Julián Castro. We dive into all of this in today’s moving, wise and open conversation about the role of family, service and connection.You can find Julián Castro at:Our America podcast : https://smarturl.it/ouramericapodcastInstagram : https://www.instagram.com/juliancastrotx/Check out our offerings & partners: My New Book SparkedMy New Podcast SPARKEDVisit Our Sponsor Page For a Complete List of Vanity URLs & Discount Codes. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My guest today is former U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Mayor of San Antonio, Texas, and presidential candidate Julian Castro. So today's conversation is personal. Growing up in San Antonio, his love of the city, the example of his grandmother, who he calls Nana, really her devotion to family and hard work and his mom's commitment to social justice and activism and public service, it instilled this deep reverence of the idea of public service. And he'd eventually head to college and then law school with his twin brother, Joaquin, before returning to San Antonio to immerse himself in the pursuit of making the city that he loved the best, most equitable and

inclusive place possible. He eventually became the youngest mayor of a top 50 American city at the time before rising up in the world of politics. But for him, it wasn't about politics. It was about this notion of service, about honoring the examples of his mom and his nana to help others to really live a life of purpose and contribution. Much of his story is shared in Secretary Castro's memoir, An Unlikely Journey, Waking Up From My American Dream. He currently hosts Lemonada Media's hit podcast, Our America with Julian Castro. We dive into all of this in today's deeply moving and wise and really open conversation about everything from the role of family and service and connection to the most fundamental notions of fellowship and even how to raise kids. We cover a lot of ground here. Super excited to

share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X.

Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th.

Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. I've been listening to your podcast and diving into it.

And it was really fun because the first episode of Our America, which is your podcast, you invite your twin brother and your mom on. And you're sort of reminiscing. And Joaquin, your twin brother, shares this line when he's sort of describing the neighborhood that you grew up in. He's like, he said, everything was crooked. And that stayed with me. And I'm curious how you sort of like received that line and what that meant to you. You know, I had never heard Joaquin describe our old neighborhood in that way. You can imagine, I mean You know, I had never heard Joaquin describe our old neighborhood in that way. You can imagine, I mean, he and I are both in politics. We talk to each other all the time. I've heard a lot of his speeches and presentations and reflections on

any number of things. When that came out of his mouth, my first instinct actually was, oh no, what do you mean crooked? Because people associate that with crooked as in corrupt, right? But as he started explaining it, I understand what he meant, that things just seemed off, you know, like the sidewalks cracked and, you know, at an angle. And the houses, or the outside at least, you know, looked like they were falling apart. And it was an interesting word to use. I think physically accurate in a lot of ways. But yeah, there was a slight panic in the moment. Oh, what do you mean? You know, we didn't come from a corrupt family. We didn't come from. Yeah, it was funny, because I had that same instant reaction. But then the next sentence was him saying, Well, no, it was really about the angles. You know, like every roof, every street, every

sidewalk was just kind of like tipped a little bit to one side. Like nothing was sort of, you know, like pert and lined up in these straight lines or angles. Yeah. I, uh, you know, I definitely noticed his use of that word as well in the moment. And, but I thought, you know thought that I got what he was saying. Yeah. You grew up in San Antonio in a neighborhood that I'm fascinated by a lot of different reasons. I grew up outside of New York City, suburban New York City, very, very different experience. And you describe a lot of your upbringing in the context of what I would describe as a multi-generational household. And on the one hand, you've got all these people

living in a confined space, but on the other hand, there's something so beautiful about that. And I wonder if you reflect at times on what it was like to literally be living in a household where you had three generations of people in a tight space learning to be with each other. It was. I mean, these days I have my own children who are 11 years old, my daughter Karina and my son Christian, who's five. You know, sometimes I wish that we had that set up you know there have been different times when I've thought about oh because my mom has her own house and everything but oh you know could we have my mother here or my wife's mother here because it was wonderful to grow up with my grandmother there my grandmother was like

was was basically the second parent. Um, you know, particularly after my parents split up when we were about eight. I mean, I spent more time with my grandmother a lot of weeks than I would with my mom because she was the one that was there taking care of my brother and me. She was also the one passing down the stories and the culture and the tradition and the food, you know, of this Mexican American culture that we shared. And that was very special. And it's, as much as he's tried, it's hard to replicate that. It's very hard to replicate that. Yeah, I feel like, you know, part of there's this weird thing that tends to happen with the quote American dream, which I know you've written and spoken about a lot, which is that part of the aspiration seems to be we'll move into a bigger space away from people and also with fewer people in the house.

And I sometimes reflect on, well, like, what are we losing when we do that? You know, should that really be sort of the global aspiration for everyone? It's a great question, you know, and if we think about just in our country, I think even more so in a lot of other countries, there was definitely a time where multi-generational households, people in different backgrounds coming in the wave of, you know, European immigrants, obviously Latino immigrants, that was a lot more common than it is now. And in many communities, it still is common, right? It's still not unusual. But you're right, we have this norm where you have a nuclear family, and it's the two parents and the two kids living in one house, I found that growing up in this multi-generational household gave Joaquin and me a greater

appreciation for our background and culture and a greater sense of where we'd come from and the family's history and just a stronger support system too, for my mom who was bringing us up as a single parent. And recently with the, you know, this is a little bit as an aside, but deals with this issue of multi-generational households, you know, in the Hispanic community, there's been a higher rate of infection from COVID-19. And some of that has been ascribed to a greater multi-generational household living, which I have found very interesting because I've always, I have always thought of that as a real strength of families and of communities that live like that, that I think it adds a lot more than it

takes away. Yeah. No, I completely understand that. I mean, having been in New York City for over three decades, when you scale that out from one multi-generational household to sort of just the concept of people living really in high density together. On the one hand, you get all of the amazingness of that, all the interconnectedness, the transfers of cultures and wisdom and information. And yet at the same time, in these really rare, bizarre times, you have the exposure side of it as well. You brought up your grandma, who I know you called Mamo, and was a really just such a deep part of your life. Tell me more about her because she sounds like somebody who was just kind of all love, but at the same time, there was a fierceness underneath her that I

guess she had to have to really make it through the earlier part of her life as well. Yeah. I mean, she was a survivor in the sense that she came to this country in 1922 when she was six or seven years old. And she came because she lost her parents and was brought from Mexico, Northern Mexico to live in San Antonio, Texas. Her extended family lived here in San Antonio where I'm at now. And then the family that she moved in with, the mother of that family that was kind of like her, you know, second mom, passed away a couple of years after she got there. And so in short order, she kind of lost two moms and then never finished elementary school and then worked as a maid, a cook and a babysitter and brought my mom up as a single parent. Again, part of this extended family. So she definitely had support.

She had a lot of help. But still, she had to be a fighter. You know, she had to be tough and she worked very hard. And by the time that my brother and I were, you know, there and were her only grandchildren that she had wanted grandchildren for a long time. Um, you know, she, she had type two diabetes also. And so, you know, I remember that she would have to go take her insulin shots during the day and taking the bus downtown with her to sit for several hours at appointments at the doctor's office. And so it seemed like her entire life, you know, was always a struggle in one way or another. But she also, you know, found ways to be joyful. I mean, I remember her loving reading her Agatha Christie books and watching The Young and the Restless.

I can still recite like the daytime soap opera schedule because of her. And, you know, cooking her chicken with rice and menudo and, you different things so she found a way uh above and beyond the struggle to find meaning and part of that was being as good of a mother and of a grandmother as she could be yeah i mean she sounds like um an incredible person um you i know you mentioned that she ended up effectively having to leave her education really, really early on, I guess, before she even really learned how to read and then ended up teaching herself so that she could really navigate the world on her own. But it does sound like on the one hand, she's living almost like a dual reality. She's got this beautiful family, close knit, and at the same time, economically and opportunity wise, and then health wise, eventually, it just becomes

really hard. And it sounds like it never got easier for her. Yeah. You know, I think by the time my brother and I were of an age where we knew kind of what was going on, let's say when you're 10, 11, 12 years old, you know, we were a lot more stable than I think, or things were a lot more stable than they had been before. But yeah, I mean, it was for her, I think it was always a struggle, either economically, or either financially or, or health wise. And, you know, but for Joaquin and me, I'm also glad that we got to spend so much time with her because it gave us an appreciation of her, of our background, of the sacrifices that people make for their families all the time. And hopefully some grounding in don't take privilege for granted. You know, I feel privileged today with my family compared to where my grandmother was, my mother was, even where we were at one point. That experience definitely gave me an appreciation for what I have.

And as a father, I think about, okay, with these two kids of mine that, of course, I want to be happy like any parent does and give them everything they want. And my son wants a new toy today and tomorrow and the next day. How do you, you know, impart that in them? For Joaquin and for me, I mean, she was a living embodiment of that, of the sacrifice that people make for their family and, you know, just keep making day in and day out. Yeah. I mean, it's such an interesting question too, when, when you come from one place and you end up in a different place and then you, you have this opportunity to play the role of parent and also teacher, you know, and how do you, where a lot of the values and, and the ethos that sort of led you to the place that you are, just isn't the immediate circumstance of your kids.

You know, how do you pass that on to them in a way where it doesn't sound like the parent just talking about how you walked uphill both ways to school, like 10 miles every day into the snowstorm. Which, as they say, go in one ear and out the other, for sure. Right. Yeah, I mean, it's everybody, you know,

that is fortunate, you know, is doing okay, you know, grapples with that, I think, in one way or another. Yeah. You talked about your grandmother, but also your mom. I mean, your mom sounds like, talk about a fierce person with a will of steel. I mean, from the outside looking in, from the stories I've heard you tell about her, it sounds like from the earliest days, she was somebody who said, you know, like basically stood up and said, I am here to be seen, to be heard and to speak, not just for myself, but also for others. Yeah. You know, she, from a very, from a young age, probably in high school, had this sense of right and wrong that propelled her to activism and to push for social justice and for equality,

mostly centered around women's empowerment and the Mexican-American civil rights movement. Yeah, so she was very different from my grandmother in that my grandmother was much more traditional. She didn't like politics. She was more of a churchgoer. She had grown up in the Catholic church. And even though my mother went to like 16 straight years of Catholic school, she had this healthy, I don't know if you would call it skepticism or defiance, just questioning, even though, you know, in that episode that we were talking about, I mean, she credits her faith with giving her perspective on social justice. But yeah, my mom was just fiery and she was a hell raiser and she wanted to right the wrongs

that she saw. And very much a child of her generation, of the baby boomer generation that grew up into and in through the civil rights movement and then tried to contribute to that. had the chance to sit down with Bishop Michael Curry a little while back, and who is clearly a man of devout faith and also involved in social justice and activism from the earliest days of his life. And I've had the chance to sit down with a number of people who really see the two as almost inseparable in a weird way. And part of the rationale is when things get really, really, really hard, which they do, they always do, what's your foundation? What do you turn to? And very often it is some level of fundamental beliefs and values and faith. And they'll say, that is sort of like almost always or very often grounded in some sort of faith-based background. Yeah.

I mean, I do think that it helps people get through a lot, so many different types of struggles, and also to see a path toward justice, to see a path beyond the inequality they see out there, the injustice they see out there, the tragedies of life that they see out there. That was my mom, you know, and it continues to be. For a while, she was part of, I think she was on the board of NETWORK, which is this progressive Catholic social justice lobby. And so for many years now, you know, when I hear about the role of faith in politics, it seems like it's always a conversation on the right or about the

right. But there's also a very powerful rationale for faith as an avenue to explain and to animate people's beliefs on the left especially as she said in the in the episode that we did around the fact that you know we're all children of god and that all should be treated equally and have the same opportunity and so forth. Yeah. I mean, it's such an interesting conversation. I'm somebody who was brought up Jewish, but not in a very religious way, more traditional or more based around the traditions of family and gathering. But I think at some point we all land in a place in our lives where things get hard and we have to ask ourselves, what do we believe? Sure.

What are the values by which we choose to make decisions and live our lives? And I think some of us will turn to historic experience with faith. Some of us will turn to philosophy or other things. I'm always just really curious where we turn when we are in moments of struggle. And I'm really curious at where all the different places we turn, how they overlap, how and where they overlap. What are the universal tenets and principles that seem to exist in nearly any domain that help us in those really dark times? Absolutely. Yeah. So your mom becomes really this powerful example for you and Joaquin as you're growing up.

I mean, she's out there. She's fierce. She's advocating. She is at one point a teacher, at one point a public servant, sort of like doing all these different things in the world. And also it sounds like never shielding you from this. You know, like it sounds like she treated both of you very much as adults who were capable of understanding the issues and being a part of the conversation along the way yeah you know i i

never remember my mother shooing us out of a room you know how you're a parent i've done i admit i've done this too with my kids my you know i'm on the phone or doing something or meeting. Yeah. And my son starts walking in or something. I'm like, hey, hey. We're trying to talk here or we're trying to... I don't remember my mom doing that. I'm sure she did once or twice. But I say that to say that she welcomed us as part of that conversation that would happen with friends, you know, with colleagues. When she worked for the city of San Antonio, she worked in the personnel department or in the early 80s, a group of folks would gather after work at this restaurant that was in the basement of the building they worked in. And, you know, they would gather to eat something and drink beers. And my brother and I would be there with them

hanging out for a couple of hours, you know, putting quarters in the jukebox, but also listening to all the conversation about what was happening at work. But then, of course, they would get into these larger issues of politics and social justice and other concerns in the community and the world. And so for us, I mean, that was a lot of our education, you know, about the world outside of our little home. And my mom always welcomed us into that world and didn't shield us from a lot. She also was very lenient. You know, this series, Cobra Kai is on Netflix right now, which is like the, I guess the, not remake, but updated Karate Kid, like what happens after, what do you call that? There's a prequel, a sequel, I don't know what you would call this.

At any rate, I remember in the summer of 1984, my brother and I were nine years old, and we took the bus by ourselves to go watch the Karate Kid six times. I would never let my, my son is five. I would never let him when he's nine or 10 go anywhere by himself. You know, the times have changed for sure. But my mother gave us a lot of latitude. And I think she wanted us to develop a sense of independence and to have confidence in ourselves. And in different ways, whether it was bringing us into conversations or letting us go out and explore. She tried to do that. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like to a certain extent, part of the reason for the freedom was to allow you to stumble, to allow you to get maybe a little banged up or a little bit

lost and know that you'd be okay. You kind of find your way home and you'd figure it out. And almost in preparation for knowing that there's a world out there where that's going to happen an awful lot and letting you kind of navigate it while you could come home and know that she would still be there and mama would still be there and somehow it would end up okay. It's interesting also because a lot of times when kids are exposed to whatever their parents are modeling, they'll have one of two reactions. One is they'll run towards it. They're like, wow, this is so powerful. I want to be involved in this.

Or because it's coming from their parent, they'll run in the exact opposite direction. We both know this as parents, you know, sort of like, and what's interesting to me is that not just you, but also your brother, both of you were exposed to the same sort of like set of experiences. And both of you ran towards public service. There was something that both of you said, no, this is a call for me. This is not something that I in any way, shape or form want to run from. Yeah. I mean, it's fascinating. So far, it's had a happy ending to be able to do that and

we've enjoyed it. You're right. I mean, I've known people, whatever their profession of their parents was, whatever their parents did. Some people really embrace it. Some people don't want to have anything to do with it. I guess for me, at least, I was always at least interested, somewhat fascinated by politics and public service. My mom never served in office, but she was around it.

There was a time when I was growing up, though, I was very cynical about it. I didn't see how participating in the democratic process could actually make a difference, like a concrete difference in the lives of people. I saw a lot of gaps. And it really wasn't until I went away from my home community. I went away to college to Stanford where I started getting an interest, a real interest in actually running for office, fully being a part of it. I followed issues. It's fair to say that I was probably more interested in issues and so forth than most people in high school. But I didn't want to go into it. When I went away to college, I thought that I was going to go into journalism or advertising

or something like that, not into politics. And my brother, from the time that we were little, wanted to become a lawyer. Eventually, we went to law school and we both became lawyers, but somewhere along the way there in college, law school decided that we actually wanted to go into politics. Yeah, and it sounds like the lessons of being around your mom and everybody that she was around also kind of helped out when you hit Stanford. And I guess you both ended up running for student office and winning

and along the way realizing that the way to do it was to pick a single issue rather than barrage people with all sorts of different things. And then you had a highly innovative, brilliant promotional strategy also that secured the votes. We found the best real estate for campaign flyers, which was on restroom stalls, the inside of restroom stalls. So you had a captive audience when people were using the restroom. They couldn't avoid looking straight at your flyer. We were just surprised nobody had thought of it. And Stanford had not restricted anybody's ability to fly her up the restroom stalls but you know apparently it worked joaquin and i finished tied for first place

in in uh our junior year when we ran for student senate yeah i mean lesson learned right you have a little bit of the advertiser that you thought you were going to go into, harnessing it with the public service side of things. Yeah. But it was also a lot of fun getting to do that with Joaquin. And I think that started, you know, that kind of set a precedent for what we would do later on that even though we've never run for office at the same time or the same type of office, we were never both in the state legislature together or city council together. You know, both of us got active and it just felt natural to be doing that together. I mean, that's the other thing. Joaquin jokes that he can't get rid of me and I say that I can't get rid of him. That relationship with my brother, I think, has been key to my own success and having fun at, you know, what we've been doing at being in politics and public

service. I don't think any, no, it's hard to imagine, right? Whatever your situation is, if you're an only child, it's hard to imagine having a sibling. If you're, if you're part of a family of 10 people, oh, I can't imagine if I just had one sibling, um sibling growing up as a twin. It's a very unique experience. You move through the world together. You're judged the same way. People often think of you as a unit. And also there's this fierce competition that often happens between twins. And he and I definitely experienced that phase of our lives in school and sports and so forth. But I think it was like 99% blessing

to be able to go through the world with somebody that was my best friend and was experiencing the same thing that I was. Yeah. And I know you guys both also, like you said, hyper-competitive in almost every way. And in addition to being super close you know when you're that close with siblings yeah moments arise where you don't agree and there's tension you developed an interesting sort of uh ceremony would it be right to call it to sort of like resolve issues oh yeah we would stay there we would we would basically sometimes for more than an hour take turns hitting each other like on the shoulder the arm sometimes the chest uh we generally wouldn't hit each other in the face because that would get us in trouble with our mom if she found out but yeah just this weird

kind of way of of taking out our aggression on the other one, but not overly doing it, I guess. Yeah, I think you call it the infinity death loop, right? Yeah. I love the naming conventions you come up with. If you're at a point in life when you're ready to lead with purpose, we can get you there. The University of Victoria's MBA in Sustainable Innovation is not like other MBA programs. It's for true changemakers who want to think differently and solve the world's most pressing challenges. From healthcare and the environment to energy, government, and technology, it's your path to meaningful leadership in all sectors.

For details, visit uvic.ca slash future MBA. That's uvic.ca slash future MBA. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power.

Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch,

getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised.

The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him.

Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. Another thing that struck me was that as close as you were, you know, growing up together, effectively in the same room, in the same house, same schools, both actually accelerating and graduating high school in three years, both at Stanford and then in law school together, that there was something else that Joaquin shared, actually, that I guess it was his recollection that the first time that you ever hugged was college. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. No, I think I brought that up in the podcast that when we won the student Senate election, that night, there was a gathering of all of the candidates where the results were announced. So Joaquin and I were both there. And first they announced that I was in first place with 811 votes. And then they announced right after that, that he also was in first place with 811 votes. So we tied. And that was the first time that I can remember hugging my brother.

And we had this conversation on the podcast because I think this is common for a lot of guys, especially. I mean, Joaquin and I were super close. We even shared a room, had bunk beds, lived across the hall from each other in a dorm walked through the world together as twins talked all the time when we weren't together on the phone but at the same time like we didn't have this relationship of expressing

our emotion or affection toward one another and certainly not you know physically doing that and it's just you know i i think that that certainly applied to us and i think that applies to a lot of people especially men and boys um i think we've gotten a little bit better about that over the years i can't say that we're yeah i that we're still that affectionate toward one another. But I remember that. I remember that moment as different and as this expression of, wow, look what we did. And I'm so happy to be here and to be doing this with you, to have this chance to do this with you. And that we could both,

because we had been so competitive, I think part of the elation for me was that both of us could win, that there wasn't somebody who had to go home and feel like that they had lost. Although, just as you were born a minute before him, they announced your name before. Yeah. I'm sure for that 25 seconds it took or something. He, he was probably already, you know, cursing my name or something. Yeah, no, it's a, I joke that having been born a minute

first, I get to go first. Yeah. I mean, what's interesting about that also is there is this notion that boys are socialized to either repress emotion, especially sort of physical love for friends or male family members, male identifying people in their lives. But it's okay to express it in a physical expression that is somehow has violence built into it. So it was funny because you're saying like, you know, we actually never hugged until that moment. And my brain immediately went to wondering, was the infinity death loop, your earlier version of the hug, you know, it's sort of like let's instead instead of hugging it out you're like what 18 year old boy would do that with a twin brother you know like it's sort of

like you you somehow physically get it out in a way where you're okay with each other at the end and it's a physical process yeah i mean i i think that you we were always, we've always been very, very close and very engaged in the relationship in that, you know, we're constantly talking to each other and, you know, sharing what we've been doing and our ideas and thoughts. And it's, yeah, perhaps just different ways of expressing that. Yeah. You guys end up together at Stanford, end up applying and then getting into Harvard for law school. At that point, your grandma is definitely struggling with her health, but you basically make it home understanding that she's close to the end to share it with her. So she never actually saw you go, but she knew.

She knew that you were going. she knew that you had got in. What, what was that like to be able to share that with her? Uh, it was a wonderful moment because I hoped at the time, and I still hope now that it made her feel as though, you know, we were going to be okay and hopefully made her feel like she was a part of that um that success and that she could see like a bright future for us and i know as a you know i'm a parent today not a grandparent yet but i know as a parent something like that if i knew it would make me feel oh you know at least i can rest a little bit more comfortably that my child is going to be seems like they're going to be doing well and i hope that's the sense of peace and security she got from that uh and hopefully she understood how thankful how appreciative i was of her for helping me to get to that point.

I mean, there's no, you know, growing up, even for Joaquin and me and our generation growing up, we never would have dreamt of that. Going to the schools that we went to growing up where we did and much less so my grandmother. Because she never could have imagined that kind of opportunity for herself for my mom even for us probably she was trying to work hard toward that but to actually see that to know that at the very end i hope that she understood like the magnitude of my gratitude and the bright future that we had ahead. Yeah. I know you, before heading to law school, you took some time off, took about a year off, did substitute teaching. Found out that I was not very good at it either.

Right. It's like, if you want to be humbled really quickly, teach. That is true. Especially young or sort of like students, you know, in high school, that will get you really, really humble really fast. For sure. You know, it gave me a whole new appreciation for what it takes to be a good teacher. I was a permanent substitute teacher. I was 22 years old. I look like I still belong in the classroom.

And yeah, I really did find out. I mean, if you want to do teaching well, you need to understand, especially with high schoolers, how to manage a classroom effectively, how to effectively convey knowledge. So many different things that I just, at that time, I just didn't have that skill set. And I was just trying to wing it. And so it gave me a real appreciation for the people that do it well. And it's true what they say. I mean, teachers are underpaid. They're underappreciated, undervalued in our society compared to what they do. My dad was a public school math teacher for 31 years. And, you know, I think about all of those years,

if I had had to do what I did for one semester for 31 years, wow, that's a lot. So I have a lot of appreciation for our teachers out there. Yeah, I think it's such a great experience for anyone to have. I know you were giving the advice also, don't try and be their friend, be their teacher, which really transposes into almost any domain, especially public service. You swap the word teacher for public servant or representative because there will always be those moments where they don't need a best friend. They need somebody to stand on their behalf or they need somebody to walk beside them. And I mean, it sounds like that one bit of wisdom kind of has stayed with you for a long time.

Yeah. I mean, one of the longtime teachers there, I think who was an administrator by then, gave me that advice of don't, because I was so young, because it would be natural for me to try and be the nice guy and like the i think their point was you know don't try and be their friend that you have to establish yourself as their teacher first you know that they were i don't think they were telling me like don't be nice or don't but but like you need to establish your role and, and to be effective, be respected as the person in that role. Not just, you know, you're not their buddy, you know, that's not first and foremost what

you're there for. You're there to make sure that they learn. And, you know, I resisted that in the beginning. I didn't get it, but later in life, I got it more. I understood that more. That the best people can do both of those things. But first, you have to be their teacher and everything that comes with that. And then, you know, be their friend or friendly and so forth.

Yeah. No, I completely agree. I mean, I think you have to hold them in high esteem. You have to love them. And at the same time, there has to be an environment that is conducive to whatever outcome you're trying to create, whether it's teaching or advocacy or whatever the progress metric is for wherever you are. You end up back in Harvard, going through law school, doing a summer internship in DC at the White House, it sounds like was a major turning point for you as well in sort of like turning the light bulb back on and saying, yeah, this. Yeah. Well, I had actually done that at Stanford when I was in college

after my sophomore year. But yeah, I was a White House intern in between my sophomore and my junior year in college. It was my first time away from my brother, my first time in Washington, DC. I was an intern in the Office of Cabinet Affairs in the summer of 1994. That summer, the White House was tackling healthcare, a number of other issues back then. was so much going on i don't even remember everything that was going on back then but it was during that time of president clinton's administration where he was battling the republican congress and uh but for me it was just all a whole new world and i was just soaking it in it also gave gave me confidence that I could be a part of that environment. And I watched that world as it is, how people comported themselves, what the expectations were, what actual business got done.

And so far, as an intern gets to see any of that, really, I didn't have any major kind of work as an intern but it it made me even more curious about politics and public service and gave me more confidence that i could go you know and do it yeah so when you come out of law school then you decide to head back and start in the career of law. So I actually went to law school, practiced for about five years in a very, very, very past life at this point. And you end up in sort of like this kind of revered firm, but the tug of public service, it sounds like it really drops back into your life very quickly. You know, you end up getting involved in local politics, running in 2001, I guess, for city council,

then in 05, running for the first time for mayor of San Antonio, coming so close, but not quite making it before you would then come back and actually earn that spot. But it seems like not making it, missing by like a point and a half, that experience left a really powerful impression on you as well. Yeah, it definitely did. It really drove home for me it's true what they say that you learn more by losing than by winning because if you have any pride in what you do when you lose especially if you lose so closely it forces you to think about what you could have done better what you could have done differently how you should have gone about things differently and then the other thing I found was that, that failure like that

makes you do a gut check about whether you want to take the chance, take the risk of doing it again. Do you care enough about why you're doing this, what you're doing to try again? Because, you know, there is a risk of failure of doing it again and political failure failure in electoral politics is unlike a lot of other failures in that it's so public and it's community-based the community is telling you no we don't want you we want somebody else and when you walk around in the world when you you go to the grocery store, when you go to a movie, wherever you're walking downtown in the street, people, especially if you're running for mayor, if you're running for Congress, running whatever, the higher profile

of the office, the more this is true. People know what the deal is. You failed. In a lot of failures in life, it's not that public. You're a private citizen. And, you know, so it made me question, did I care enough about why I was doing this? And I did. I mean, I had a real chip on my shoulder about my hometown. I wanted more people in my hometown to have the kind of opportunity that I had had.

I didn't see that many people who got to the places that my brother and I got to and places like that. And I wanted to fundamentally change the community. And look, any politician that tells you that there's no ego involved is lying to you. There's always some ego involved. And I think some ego that can be healthy, right? But the difference should be that people who are in it for the right reason should be trying to serve others fundamentally, not themselves. But I did have enough of that concern and burning desire. So I ran again in 2009 and I won.

Yeah. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun.

On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot if we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required.

Charge time and actual results will vary. What was that like when, you know, after sort of, it's like the comeback, right? You know, you give it a shot, you really do a self-examination. And then four years later, you come back and run again and win. I'm curious what it was like, not just to know that, okay, so I failed first in a really big public way. I decided that've said are important to me and that I want to do for this city that I love so much, I'm in a position in theory to do it. I'm curious how that landed with you and how you felt both the lightness of possibility and the weight of responsibility in that moment. It was a joy to get to do because when I went into politics in the first place, what I looked forward to was hopefully getting to be mayor of the city, serve as this person in the community that could help guide with a vision, guide the future of the city. And so obviously it's for other people to judge. But I think that that was

probably the role that I took to most naturally, that came most natural, didn't miss a step. I had also spent a lot of time understanding the history of the politics of the city, the different dynamics of it. I mean, I had read a lot about it and understood other people in political office and the direction of the city through the decades. And so I had a very, very strong sense of what I wanted to do with the city. And from that, I guess the best way to say that is I felt like I was prepared. And so that meant that I could actually enjoy, I could enjoy the experience and I had a sense of where, where I thought we needed to go. And I think we didn't miss a beat, you know? Yeah. By, so that was 09 when you became mayor. You also, by then you were married and

had your first daughter at that point? Yeah. She had, my daughter Karina had just been born. Erica had given birth to her two months before election day. Wow. So I, cause I wonder how, I wonder how that affects you and the way you look at the thing that you're here to do, you know, like now, um, having a family and having a brand new child who's like now being raised in this city that you love so much, whether that changes things in any way for you. No, absolutely. It's true what people say that it gives you this other perspective, this concern, not only for yourself, but also for your child. And it expands your notion of what counts, and and and your time horizon you want to create a community that

is going to be there for her and the kind of place that she wants to live in and uh and for for her to be born so close in time to when i took office uh you know i think I was fortunate in that regard to be going through that as a parent as well. And I think that was also one of the reasons that we pushed for pre-K in our city. That was the thing I was most proud of, was taking a ballot initiative called Pre-K for SA to the voters to increase the sales tax by an eighth of a cent to fund high quality full day pre-K for four-year-olds. As a father, I could see the urgency of making sure that more kids were getting high quality early education. Yeah. I mean, I'm wondering, there is all research on and data on what happens when this one seemingly

simple piece of the puzzle is dropped, you know, like slightly earlier in life. And from what I've seen, the outcomes can be pretty stunning. Absolutely. And that's one of the reasons we chose to put that investment into pre-K was because of the compelling research that if you have a dollar to spend, the best place to spend it, best time to spend it, is when a child's brain is young, when they're learning at their highest rate, when you can still influence the trajectory of their educational journey. And there was ample research to that effect. The good news is that that initiative, Pre-K for SA, which was stood up beginning in the fall of 2013, has been evaluated by groups outside of San Antonio and has

held up very well. And also in the testing, you know, the standardized testing that these kids do for third grade, those kids have done very well compared to their peers. So my hope is that it's living up to its expectations and most importantly, going to make life better for them. And in doing that, going to make the community better and stronger in the years to come. This November, on November 3rd, as all of us vote for president and senator and everything else, it's actually up for renewal. This is the first renewal. I can't believe it's been eight years since the voters first voted on it. And it looks like it's going to pass very handily. You never know what happens in an

election, but it looks like the voters are going to pass it. And I'm proud of that. Knock on wood that it does, but I'm very proud that from progressives to moderates, I'm proud of that. You know, knock on wood that it does, but I'm very proud that from progressives to moderates, I'm conservatives, but at least the progressives and moderates are very supportive of it. Yeah. I mean, part of what I often wonder what motivates somebody to go into public service, especially these days where it seems like, you know, even if you have incredible intention, it's a fraught life. And it seems like part of it, I've always wondered how much of it is this notion of that's just what I'm here to do. that sustains and has a continued ripple into the community for long after you've left a particular job or position or title or whatever it may be. Well, you know what's fascinating is that oftentimes we send this signal to people in politics, especially in local office,

that the way to do that is with things, the ballpark that you build, the airport, the roads, you know, the park. And all of those are, you know, have their, their legitimate value in the community. But I actually wanted us to invest in people and to measure ourselves in a different way, you know, measure how many more kids would walk across the graduation stage. Measure the quality of life in the community in part by the income level of people raising that up by the health outcomes of the community. We launched something called SA 2020 on Saturday, September 25th, 2010, which asked the community to dream about what kind of city do we want to be on Friday, September 25th, 2020. And then pre-K for SA was part of that pursuit.

The community set all of these different specific numeric goals around education, around health, around quality of life, transit, you name it. We just passed that 10-year anniversary a few weeks ago. And they did a report. Some things we did well on. Some things, you know, we're just sort of in the middle. Some things, frankly, we haven't done well on, even gone backward on. But that was part of the beauty of it also

was being honest with ourselves, right? Because too oftentimes in politics, you know, you ask the politician, it's all great. It's all right. I mean, we have a perfect example of that right now, right? But that's not reality. I mean, if you want to make progress, you have to be big enough to admit where you're failing to where you're not doing as well as you should. And there's no more important place to do that than community wide so that you can try and resolve, okay, look, what are we going to do about this? Yeah. It's amazing that you also,

that you had this 10-year perspective. I feel like these days, so much of politics, business, almost everything, all domains, really, we are wrapped in short-termism, you know, in what is the most immediate metric to measure success. The idea that you, you know, that there was this thing that said, let's look 10 years out and envision what we want things to look like then. And then that 10 years out, you actually measured against it.

And you did this, you know, like, let's actually see where did we work well, where did we fall short, and how do we move forward? Such a powerful way to be. I mean, just even on an individual basis in our own lives, if we could sort of look at the world that way. As you were the mayor, that was around the time that I understand you come onto the radar of President Obama, then end up giving a keynote in 2012 with the DNC. And a couple of years later, you get a call from him. When you got that call, you weren't so sure that it was going to be a good call, but it

turned into something pretty powerful. Yeah, no, I had just left a drive-ru at Panda Express, actually, when I got a call from the president asking if I was interested in serving as the HUD secretary. And I was because one of my passions when I was mayor had been trying to revitalize and invest in communities that had been long neglected for the benefit of the people who live there, you know, and trying to make it better for them. And so HUD appealed to me from that perspective, because that's a lot of the work you do in terms of providing housing opportunity and the urban development component of it. So it didn't take me long to say that, yeah, I'd love

to do that. And then went off on a new journey to Washington. Yeah. So you're in Washington for, I guess, about three years then. And it's interesting because I know part of that was when we think housing and urban development, a lot of people also think like they focus on the urban part of it, but so much of that really is about, it's just small communities around the entire country. So you get the opportunity to literally travel to, I think, almost 40 states and just visit and see and witness all these communities. I found that really interesting in your podcast, In Our America, one of the early episodes,

is this really beautiful kind of reflection and series of conversations with people who are living in, I guess, what would be described as not mobile homes, but sort of a park where all of these homes are and talking to them about their lives, the reality of their day-to-day lives. And what's interesting is, so you had this powerful experience as the secretary of HUD. That comes to an end. You come back. you mount a presidential run earlier this year. And now as we sit here, and that similar to earlier experiences, things don't always work out the way that you hope. I'm guessing that we haven't heard the last

of that, not asking you to declare anything on this podcast. There's still plenty of time ahead. But then you come back, and I'm fascinated by this decision of taking some time, figuring things out, coming back home, being with family, lecturing and doing some other things and consulting. And then launching this podcast, going from Secretary of Housing and Urban Development you know like cabinet level to effectively sitting at home in a closet yes i recorded out of the closet yeah out of my closet yeah with my my wife's clothes taking up like 70 of it mine about 30 her high heels like in the background of this picture yeah folks can get a look at it on, on, uh, sometimes when we released video from our America, you know, I mean, yeah, it's been, you know, this whole experience has just been a complete one 80 for me. And again, I'm very fortunate, you know, both of us are

compared to a lot of people during this pandemic. But for me, the, the silver lining has been getting to spend so much more time now with my family and having the opportunity to do this podcast and tell the stories of people that I've met along the way, either during my travels at HUD or on the campaign trail who are struggling, but fighting the good fight and inspiring others. The mobile home community that we talked about on the podcast is in Waukee, Iowa, and it's called Midwest Country Estates. And I spoke with a 93-year-old woman named Arletta Swain that's lived there more than 40 years. And we were talking to them because they got a letter from a private equity group that bought up the land that their manufactured housing sits on, telling them, you know, the first thing that this group did when they bought it was they sent them a letter, all the residents, a letter saying that they were going to jack up their rent by 69%.

And the story we tell is about a story of fighting back. Her and then a guy named matthew chapman who organized the residents they went to the iowa legislature tried to get legislation they couldn't didn't quite you know achieve that but it was enough to scare you know to push back uh this new ownership group and they definitely have had some rent increases, but they haven't been as initially forecast. So hopefully those stories like that, I hope, inspire others who hear and who know that there's power in everyday Americans. And also that we seriously need to make changes in our country so that people don't have to deal with these kinds of things in the same way that they do today. Yeah. I mean, when, when I envision you saying yes to stepping into this world, um, I wonder what is it that makes you say,

I'll do this. And the more I listened to what you're creating and I hear you basically, and I see you taking a spotlight and shining it just on, on very small human individual stories, but that are representative of a sea of larger stories. I think I start to see how the public service impulse in you is transitioning through the microphone into this medium. Yeah, no. and I hope that that comes through. I hope that that comes through and that it does shine a light on the amazing life story and struggle and effort of everyday Americans out there. Also, as I mentioned, when I went away to college, originally, I thought I was going to go into journalism. And this is probably the closest that I'm ever going to get. It's not hard news journalism by any means, but the closest that I'm going to get in this way to tell stories and also deal with issues that people are facing. Yeah, I love that. It feels like a good place for us to come full circle as well. So we're sitting here in this container of Good Life Project.

If I offer out the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? Family, appreciation and gratitude and good health. Thank you. Yeah, for sure. Thank you so much, for sure. have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at sparkotype.com. That's S-P-A-R-K-E-T-Y-P-E.com. Or just click the link in the show notes. And of course, if you haven't already done so, be sure

to click on the subscribe button in your listening app so you never miss an episode. And then share, share the love. If there's something that you've heard in this episode that you would love to turn into a conversation, share it with people and have that conversation. Because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold. See you next time. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot.

Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X.

Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.