Good Life Project - Justin Baldoni | Reimagining Work, Love & Masculinity

Episode Date: September 9, 2021

After years in the entertainment world, Justin Baldoni, found that classic breakout moment as an actor in the role of Rafael Solano on the hit show Jane the Virgin. But, underneath what seemed to be an extraordinary mainstream success, a certain discontent and vision of what the industry and life could be was brewing. In no small part, fueled by a deep devotion to his Baháʼí Faith, which stresses unity, universal dignity and the elimination of barriers to oneness. He began to question everything from the way stories were told to the fundamental underpinning of the entertainment machine, and even his own place in it. That led him into a deeper exploration of identity, relationships, and eventually to questioning of modern concepts of masculinity, which led him to write his first book, Man Enough: Undefining My Masculinity.It also led Justin to reimagine how he would create this next season of work and life. He co-founded Wayfarer Studios, an independent financial and production engine pioneering purpose-driven, multi-platform film and television productions that elevate and speak to the human spirit. He’s on a bit of a mission to disrupt the typical studio model by producing stories that serve as true agents for social change. Justin also founded and serves as chairman of The Wayfarer Foundation, a non-profit organization dedicated to transforming the way communities see and respond to the needs of people experiencing homelessness. Each year, the foundation puts on one of Los Angeles’ largest volunteer events, the Skid Row Carnival of Love, which provides connection, services, and resources to people who are experiencing homelessness in LA’s Skid Row community. Over the past few years, over 6,000 volunteers have served over 15,000 guests, providing them access to over 100 service partners.You can find Justin at: Instagram | Man Enough PodcastIf you LOVED this episode you’ll also love the conversations we had with Matthew McConaughey about meaning, creativity and life.Check out our offerings & partners: My New Book Sparked | My New Podcast SPARKEDVisit Our Sponsor Page For a Complete List of Vanity URLs & Discount Codes. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, so after years in the entertainment world, Justin Baldoni found that kind of classic breakout moment as an actor in the role of Raphael Solano in the hit show Jane the Virgin. But underneath what seemed to be extraordinary mainstream success, a certain discontent and vision of what the industry and life could be was brewing, in no small part fueled by a deep devotion to his Baha'i faith, which really stresses unity and universal dignity. He began to question everything from the way stories were told, to the fundamental underpinning of the entertainment machine and even his own place in it. And that led him into an even deeper exploration of identity

and relationships, and eventually a questioning of modern concepts of masculinity, which led him to write his first book, Man Enough. It also led Justin to reimagine how he would create this next season of work and life. He co-founded Wayfarer Studios, an independent financial and production engine pioneering purpose-driven multi-platform film and television productions that really elevate and speak to the human spirit. He's on a bit of a mission to just completely disrupt the typical studio model by producing stories that serve as true agents for social change. And Justin also founded and serves as chairman of the Wayfarer Foundation, a nonprofit organization that's dedicated to transforming the way communities see and respond

to the needs of people experiencing homelessness. Each year, that foundation puts on one of Los Angeles' largest volunteer events, the Skid Row Carnival of Love, which provides connection and services and resources to people who are experiencing homelessness in LA's Skid Row Carnival of Love, which provides connection and services and resources to people who are experiencing homelessness in LA's Skid Row community. And over the past few years, over 6,000 volunteers have served over 15,000 guests, providing them access to over 100 service partners. So excited to share all aspects of this story with you. And before we dive in, over the next couple of weeks, leading up to the launch of my book

Sparked on September 21st, which introduces you to the 10 sparkotypes or imprints for work that make you come alive, I was so inspired by the amazing people that I was able to sit down with and the stories that I was able to share in the book. I thought it would be fun to share some of these sparked stories as short, fun hits of inspiration and insight as we all make the transition into a season of reimagining and for many, reinvention. So here's today's story. Toronto-based executive coach and founder of Parachute Executive Coaching, Karen Wright, Advisor Warrior, has been a trusted guide to leaders in industry for more than two decades, focusing on leadership development, change management, and strategic growth. Working

with CEOs and senior leaders, often at times of great disruption and transition, she draws upon decades of experience, but also many years of training across multiple domains. She stepped into this path after having earned an MBA at the Ivy School of Business, then rising up the ladders of some of the largest organizations in the world. Karen knows the professional, social, political, and interpersonal dynamics that define her clients' days intimately. She has lived them and has spent years deepening her skills of observation and insight. She's a master at her craft in the league of Michael Gervais' elite coaches.

Karen described the opening minutes of a typical coaching session. She walks into an office, often inhabited by a CEO, sits down and asks that all technology be shut down or moved away, creating a container that is both safe and sacred. She has no agenda beyond a commitment to being utterly present, deeply generous, and fiercely honest. She owes that to her clients because she's often the only one who will be. One of the few they trust to be. Nearly every session starts with three simple words. So what's up? Where they go next is guided entirely by how her client responds in the moment. With complete trust, they'll end up where they need to be. Karen knows after decades of experience and devotion to her own mastery and

growth, she is most of service when she creates the space for others to share, listens not just to what's being said, but also to what's being expressed in a thousand ways beyond language, then joins them in a space of curiosity and generosity. She is there more than anything to notice, to reflect, to query, and to trust that the quality of the container, the precision of her questions, and the depth of the relationship will allow whatever insights are needed to emerge. And without fail, they do.

This is the power of an advisor who truly understands the path and commits to her own pursuit of excellence. Hey, if you enjoyed that and are curious about your own sparkotype or imprint for work that makes you come alive, grab a copy of Sparked using the link in the show notes or just visit your favorite bookseller. Plus, when you order before September 21st, you'll get some pretty cool bonuses.

Okay, on to our conversation with Justin Baldoni. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations,

iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Excited to dive in, but just really fascinated by you, by your journey, by the way you see the world, and by the work you've been doing. So it seems like a lot of the way that you move into the world also has been informed from the earliest days by faith. So you grew up in the Baha'i tradition, which, interestingly, I knew nothing about it. Never heard of until a couple of years ago. We had Andy Grammer on the show, who I think is a friend of yours also. Yeah, he's one of my besties. Yeah.

Yeah. And so I was doing a little bit of background on it, and I stumbled into this faith, and I had never heard of this. So I started researching. I'm like, it's a really fascinating and relatively new tradition. Yeah. I'm curious, you know, it sounds like your folks were drawn to it in their lives, but your mom, I guess, brought up Jewish, dad's Italian. How does this tradition

land in their lives? It's a great question. It's so funny. You do so many interviews and podcasts over your life, and then it's always fun when you get asked a question you've never been asked. So thank you, Jonathan. One of the building blocks of the Baha'i faith, if you will, the foundations of it, is this idea of the independent investigation of truth. Meaning that you don't just become something because your mother or father believe it. You don't just take somebody's word for it. You have to independently investigate that truth for yourself. And there's a term that's used in the Baha'i faith called seeking, right?

God talks about the seeker and what it means to be a seeker, a seeker of truth, a seeker of faith, the seeker of God, seeker of justice. And my mom was a seeker of faith, a seeker of God, a seeker of justice. And my mom was a seeker. It's the only way I can describe it. She grew up Jewish. She told me from the time she was born, and she started noticing her friends were different than her because they would celebrate different holidays. And she would ask her parents, mom, why don't we have a Christmas tree? Or who is this Jesus person? And, you know, my grandparents would inevitably say something along the lines of, oh, he was just a very nice man. Jesus was a very nice man. And my mom always told me that that just didn't do it for her. She's like, but how can he just be a very nice man if everybody

follows him and believes in him? He has to be more than just a very nice man. So she was a seeker. She never really just took what her parents said and said, okay, that's the gospel. And as she got older, she started investigating truth for herself and fell in love with Jesus and Christians and then wanted to know who Muhammad was, right? And then she kind of followed the path, if you will. And that led her in the 70s to the Baha'i faith and becoming a Baha'i. And my dad was born Catholic, met my mom. And my dad was kind of Catholic by tradition. We're an Italian family on that side.

And, you know, so you'd party during the week. And then on Sundays, you'd go say your Hail Marys and be forgiven and confession, if you will. It was like one of those types of families. That said, my grandmother and my aunt always, always had a rosary in their pockets. My nana, Grace, passed away. And she was deeply spiritual and my aunt always prays. But my dad was just kind of like, you know, kind of a Sunday Catholic, if you will. And when he met my mom, fell madly in love with her. And he tells me the story,

noticed on their first date that she wasn't drinking and he was just downing shot after shot and he and they tell me the story on their first date he looked at her and he said you don't drink do you like you know it took him a while to realize like he'd already downed two or three shots and she hadn't had any and she goes no i don't i'm baha'i we actually don't drink and he looked at her and he goes huh you know i've been meaning to quit. And he stopped drinking and eventually became a Baha'i. And I was raised in the Baha'i faith. And then at 15, I became a Baha'i. And really what that means is that I had to decide for myself if that was what was right for me. A lot of my friends were Christian and Jewish, Muslim and nothing. And that's kind of when I really decided, but I'll be honest,

it really wasn't until my mid-twenties where I think the seed was really implanted in my heart. And every day, I have to kind of make that conscious choice to go in. It's not just like this thing where you are something and then you're saved. Nothing against that, by the way. I just think that there is a element of work. And as Abdu'l-Bahá says, conscious knowledge and then the practice of good deeds is how we define faith. So you need both. You need that conscious knowledge. Okay, I am this.

I believe this. And then you need the practice of it. And it's not until those two things marry, like a sperm and an egg, that this third entity, which is faith, is born. Now, I love that. I love the notion of, first, you reach a certain age, and then rather than saying, because this is what my parents have chosen, I will, by default, take that exact same path. It's fascinating to me that you hit that mid-teenage and you reach this moment where you say, okay, now I've been raised in this tradition. I've been exposed to it, but I've also seen all my friends and all the other things going on around me. And now you get to choose. We're not going to tell you this is preordained. This is actually, okay, make a conscious choice about what you want to do moving forward. And then even once

you make that choice, it's not like, okay, like I got my thing and now I'm in. You know? Got my behind card, I'm in. Right, right, exactly. It's like pay your dues every year, it gets renewed. You know, it's like the notion of having a practice, you know, like that this is not just a choice that you make one time.

And then you're sort of like in this thing for life, but it's actually, it's showing up intentionally in a specific way every day of your life. It really is. And I want to be honest because one of the things that's important to me in every interview I do, whether it's in my books or in my speeches, whatever it is that I'm doing, I want to bring that radical sense of honesty to the conversation. And the truth is also that while at 15, I think that I thought I was making a choice for myself. I actually think, at least in my own family, that at 15, I was actually making that choice for my parents. And that's why I say it wasn't until I was much older that I think truly made that choice for myself. And there's a couple reasons why.

One is parents are not perfect. We are far from perfect. My parents are definitely not perfect, as amazing as they are. It takes a tremendous amount of deep spiritual work to be able to raise a child to truly, truly be independent of you and decide for their own heart and life what is best for them, especially when it comes to faith and especially when there's so much amessment growing up. So, you know, I knew, I think, at 15 how important faith and service was for my mom. And I think like many young kids, I wanted to take that on and say, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because at the end of the day, I want my parents to be proud of me. Right, yeah. And it was the extrapolation of the amessment and deep healing work that allowed me to go like, okay, hold on.

I need to do this now as an adult for myself. I need to make this choice for myself. I need that seed to be planted into my heart. The roots need to be in me, not in my parents. And that was really when my life started to change and I developed an actual practice that was that daily practice that I will be doing until the day that I die of just trying to make sense of this life and why we're here and faith and all of the things that come with it yeah I love the evolution of that um you used a phrase radical honesty. And I have an interesting relationship with that phrase

because I've heard that, I've read books written about it. I've talked to folks who sort of, that is the core of their philosophy. And it's interesting because, you know, A.J. Jacobs wrote this great book a number of years back where he basically said, you know, he spent a full year being 100% honest, 100% of the time with everyone around him. And it was a relatively disastrous year. He'd be out to dinner with his wife and then like a partner, you know, another couple

who he really didn't like and basically just told them how he felt, you know? So I'm curious when, when you use the phrase radical honesty, how radical are we talking about? So, all right, let's bring it back to faith for a second. Let me preface this with a quote. I'm gonna probably butcher it, but it's from Baha'u'llah, who is the prophet founder of the Baha'i faith.

And he says, not everything that a man thinketh can be disclosed. Not everything that a man discloseth can be considered as timely, and not every timely utterance can be considered suitable for the one who hears it. So there's kind of these three steps of radical honesty. The first step is, okay, I'm thinking this. I want to be honest and say it. The second step is wondering if by me saying it, is it timely? Is this the right time for me to say it? And the third step is looking into the eyes and having some sense of compassion,

empathy, just in general sensitivity for the person that I'm with and wondering if that person can actually hold what I'm about to say. And so I think the mistake we make is like what the story you just told, is we want to be radically honest and we're so sick and tired of living in a world where there is such little honesty. So we decide that we want to break free of it. But the irony is in breaking free of it and being radically honest in every situation we're in, we're actually being quite selfish because then it's about us. And taking it back to faith again, Abdu'l-Baha, the son of Baha'u'llah, the faith says, I, I, I, I. Me, me, me, me. These are the curse words of the future. And we have to look at the world that we're living in and recognize that the I's and the

me's are not going to serve us. It's about the we's. So even in and recognize that the I's and the me's are not going to serve us. It's about the we's. So even in radical honesty, it has to be both about setting yourself free, but also not placing a burden on the person or the people that you are around with. And there's a middle ground, right? We have to find the middle path, as the Buddhists say. We can't be extreme in any direction. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like what you're talking about is what my brain translates that to is honesty tempered by kindness. Absolutely. You know, so to me, it's like, okay, so think what you need to think,

like feel what you need to feel. Be true internally to yourself. How and when and why you share that with others is tempered by, is this a kind action? I mean, to a certain extent, at least. Yeah. Which is what we need a lot more of in this world. Yeah. And it's also about like, and what is honesty? Why do we want to be honest? Why do we crave honesty? And for me, like when I say radical honesty, I'm genuinely referring to, in some ways you could almost replace honesty with vulnerability, right? And you could take it back to, in some ways, you could almost replace honesty with vulnerability, right? And you could take it back to, I think you've had Renee Brown on your podcast before,

you could take it back to her work and bravery and courage and what that looks like and daring greatly. And just this idea of, okay, well, I want to be honest so that my honesty set other people free. But if my honesty puts a burden on those people, then it actually puts them back in captivity. So my honesty, like in this situation, you started talking about faith and this idea of how great it is, right, that we get to choose. What I felt called to say is, yes, but it's not that simple. Because even in my life, it was harder than that. Because what I think we have to do away with is this painting of the perfect picture, this curated feed of our lives that penetrate every area of our existence, right? Because we're always looking

so happy and put together. You have so many experts on your show and authors. And I believe honestly that some of the experts are the most messed up. Unless they're doing their own work, reading their own books, reading other people's books, going to therapy, they can get lost in their own Kool-Aid. And so for me, it's like, yeah, faith is amazing. It's the central theme of my life. But my journey with faith isn't always easy because it's more important for me to speak to those folks out there who maybe have a harder time with faith. Maybe they haven't figured out how to plant that seed in their heart. Who look around and see all of these people practicing this faith who appear to be perfect. Who appear to have all of it together, who pray at all the right times, who know what to say and

when to say it, who always have an answer for things. And it can be very intimidating to walk into a space with very spiritual people and immediately feel like you're not enough to be there. When in reality, the purpose of faith, the real purpose of religion, as Jesus said, is to allow the meek to inherit the earth. It's for the most screwed up people. It's for all of us who are imperfect and messed up. That's what faith is. And guess who those people are?

It's every person on this damn planet. It's not the enlightened few who get it. It's all of us. We're all deeply screwed up and traumatized. Every single one of us, whether we want to admit it or not. And I kind of believe there's two different groups of people in the world. There are people that want to heal and there are people who don't know they need to. And you could probably have subgroups around that. Maybe people that know they need to and then are afraid to and all of that. But I really think it comes down

to just recognizing the messiness and the imperfections in all of us. And that's what radical honesty means to me. It's saying like, yeah, you might see me as this. I might have a platform. I might look a certain way. But I have a whole battle going on inside of me that you don't see. And I don't see. And I don't want you to feel less than just because I'm coming off as perfect. So you know what? Let me go ahead and remove the veil. Let me remove the armor.

Let me show you that I am just like you. I don't, I'm afraid of dying. I don't know what's going to happen when I get to where I'm going to get to. I hope I've lived a good life, but there's been plenty of moments in my life that are not pure. I might be doing all of this work, but guess what? I'm doing a lot of other work that you don't see

because I'm scared or I have insecurities or I have trauma. We're all the same. And when we can remove ourselves from this pedestal, when we can stop this curated feed of this perpetual broadcasting of perfection of our lives, that I think we can meet each other where it matters, which is in our humanity. Completely agree with that. It's interesting. I think the last couple of years have brought so

many more people to that table because you reach a point where the ground underneath you has been completely removed. Your model of the world, however you decide to paint it, has been largely shattered. And we're all in this moment together. Whereas I think before, there were a group of people who were really trying to push the envelope of their understanding of themselves, of life, of community, of culture, of faith, of tradition. And then there were a whole lot of people who were kind of keeping on keeping on, hoping that nothing got shaken enough so that they had to sort of like face a whole bunch of different things. And then we have this thing where the ground gets pulled out from underneath of us. And all of a sudden, the state of profound existential questioning becomes normalized society-wide. And that veil of perfection, I think some people are really

still trying to grasp onto it. But man, it is really hard to hold onto that right now in this moment in time. And I feel like actually, if it was causing suffering before, it's causing suffering on a whole different level now. But I think the beautiful thing is we are in this moment where, like you said, I feel like so many people are showing up now and saying, I don't know. I don't know who I am. I don't know what I want. I'm scared. I don't know how the future is going to look. I know it's not going to look like what it looked like. Can we sit down and at least have the conversation on a level that I haven't seen that in my lifetime? Or even like, I don't know what I want, but I know it's not this.

Yeah. Like the great, you know, we're seeing the, what are they calling it? The great resignation. More people are leaving their careers and their jobs at higher and faster rates than ever have. And I couldn't agree more. I think there's a moment that we're witnessing right now where we're being asked to go in, while at the same time being pressured to exist out and i think that's creating a lot of um it's creating a lot of pain and disunity and you're seeing i think the people that are grasping on like you said to that idea of perfection i think are the people that are the most hurt, that are running

from their wounds and their trauma faster than most. And I think we need to have the most empathy and compassion when we see and meet those people in the world versus this idea of needing to tear them down. Because that's the other part of what's happening is I think the more we hurt, the more we want to make other people hurt, hurt people, hurt people, as you know, and we want to tear people down that don't agree with us. And I think what we need to do right now is the opposite. I think we need to bring those people in. We need to love harder. We don't have to like everybody, but I do believe we have to love everybody. Yeah. On board with that.

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um you know if you zoom the metal lens out and look at the culture within that profession the dominant culture is not what you're describing as your lived ethos and lens on life. Oh, is that rhetorical or am I supposed to respond? Because I'm like, yes, I agree completely. Would you like my thoughts, Jonathan? I would, yeah. How do you know?

Oh, man. You know, it's been a really interesting experience for me as a man who has always sought the approval of others to try to forge a path in an industry who doesn't care at all about my path. You know, as a boy, I read about this in my book, as a boy, I was somebody who just, I just wanted to be liked. I just wanted to be seen and valued and accepted, specifically by the other boys, but really by anybody. And, you know, growing up and eventually getting to the place where that seed of faith is implanted and rooted in my heart. And then at the same time, looking around me and recognizing the industry that I'm in, the world that I'm playing in, and how for years, even just saying one's faith would be a reason to not include you in not just a project, but just a social gathering. Who wants to bring that guy around, right? It was a very, very tricky thing because you kind of have a choice. You can choose to dim your light and change and be somebody you're not, or you can continue to be the person

you are knowing that it's probably not going to benefit you financially or creatively or socially. And I'm really grateful that I chose the latter. Honestly, I had moments of definitely, I had moments over the last 15, 20 years of, of absolutely, you know, finding ways to, I'd'd say dumb down my spirituality in certain parts of my life or justify maybe taking a role here or there because at the end of the day like you know i was also raised with this idea that beggars can't be choosers and here i am in this business and every job begets another job and every party you know it could introduce you to somebody and then when you, when you, when you're raised in this world here, you start to realize that, oh my God,

nothing is organic. Every choice that I'm being told to make is manipulated and calculated. So therefore like nothing is real. Is anything real? And that's how early on in this business I was being, if you will, groomed in more ways than one, but that's for another time. I got here kind of fresh off the bus and you get taken advantage of in a lot of ways. And so I kind of had to make a choice. And that choice that I eventually made was my relationship with God, my relationship with my faith, and my deeper purpose for why I believe I am here is more important than my lower nature's longing and desire to be seen, accepted, and valued in this particular way. And the deeper that I got and the more healing I started to do on myself, the more I recognized, and this is where I am today, that even my work ethic, even my insatiable desire for success,

my drive to be excellent in all the things that I do and even change people's hearts and minds, even the purest parts of those things that are not rooted in this industry or popularity or success and are rooted in changing people and helping people see that they can be their best selves is rooted in the trauma response even my noble desires are also rooted in a deeper longing and desire to be valued and to be seen because of the times that I wasn't growing up. So you have to look at all of it and you go, okay, I'm in this industry that doesn't really care at all about what I believe in. I want to be a force for good and change in this industry. And at the same time, my work ethic and my drive are coming from a place of impurity because it's coming from a place of lack. So you have to look at all of this stuff and go like and strip it all

off and say, who the hell am I? And if you're still with me, I know this is confusing because we're talking about like inception layers of like psychology and stripping away armor and trauma. But what I've come to learn is this. At the end of the day, after spending 10 years telling stories and making documentaries about folks who have been dying and choosing life and choosing happiness and facing their mortality, and having that be the very thing that actually carved my path in this industry, the thing that I got paid the least amount of money for, the thing that I believed in the most, the thing that everybody said was not going to work, that thing, when I finally gave up on popularity, that thing that I did all those years ago became the thing that eventually would lead me to success. When I think about my death, my funeral, my deathbed, what I'm thinking about in those final moments. I'm not going to be thinking about the parties I went to, the people that I met, the jobs that I did, the movies that I made. I'm going to be thinking about the impact that I had, not on the world,

but on my family and the people closest to me. And I'm going to be thinking about whether or not I am satisfied with my work-life balance. Did I give enough? Did I spend enough time? Was I present enough? Or were the projects that I chose to do that took me away from my family, were they meaningful? Not financially, not monetarily. Were they meaningful to me? Did I feel like I was true to myself?

Was I serving my purpose? And at the end of my life, that's all I'll be able to answer to, not anything else. And so it makes sense to me that, of course, the thing that truly came from my heart, that everybody said, eh, eh, good luck, that'll never happen, is the thing that actually helped me become the most successful because it was true to me. So I don't care anymore about what anybody else thinks in the business. Of course, I care to a certain extent what people think of the quality of my work, but I'm not making choices based on what other people think is popular or

cool or valued. And I'm not shying away from talking about things like faith and love and vulnerability and honesty and trust or masculinity as an example. And the polarizing topic that that is. Because at the end of the day, I have to answer to myself. I have to be able to stand before God and say, and if God says to me, what did you do with your time? I have to be able to look up or out or wherever or in or whatever the heck that is and answer honestly. Yeah. My curiosity also was if people know your name in the industry, pretty safe bet that

a lot of people would know it for a particular role in a particular show, Jane the Virgin. But if you look at it along a body of work, you know, like starting, I guess, back around 2012 with My Last Days, which I think is what you were referencing, which is really this documentary series about reflecting on the lived experience when you're in towards those final days. And then even more recently, you effectively say, I do have a passion for this. I love to create, I love to write, to produce, to direct, but the ecosystem within which I'm doing all these things is not aligned with who I am and the way that I want to move into the world and what I want to create. So you go and create effectively your own engine to do that in the shape of Wayfair Studios and then Wayfair

Foundation around that. And I guess that was always my curiosity. What was the motivation underneath that and what you just shared? it sounds like what you were doing is effectively creating your own ecosystem within which you can make the decisions that allow you to stay in this space, but do it in the way that feels really well aligned with the way that you see the world. Well, you said it better. I wish I could have said that at the beginning because it's exactly it. When folks have asked me over the years what I'm trying to do, I've often said build our own ecosystem. Because if you think about an ecosystem, every part of it has a purpose and a function and needs the other parts. And I've never felt comfortable being in a box, right? That's why I'm trying to break free of the box of masculinity, right? This rigid definition that I have to be a certain way in order to be accepted and seen and valued. And I feel the same way about our industry.

You know, I couldn't get an agent for most of my career. I got my first real agent right after Five Feet Apart came out and was, you know, made $100 million around the world. It was like, nobody saw that coming. And then suddenly agents were like, oh, but they wanted to rep me as a director. But I'm like, but I've been here the whole time as an actor. And this is all the other stuff that I'm doing. And our industry has such a hard time seeing people as whole. We like to put folks in a box. Well, if they do that, they can't do that.

And I'm somebody who I always kind of say, I feel like I'm a feather in the wind going wherever God takes me. I've recently told my wife, I'm like, babe, if this all went away, what kind of restaurant would you want to open? Because I love to cook. And that would make me happy. And that'd be fun. And we could create something amazing together, right? I'm not attached to any of the roles. And I think it's in the attachment to things that we suffer the most. And so yeah, so yeah, I love, I get so much joy out of producing and helping other people achieve their dreams. I get so much joy out of producing and helping other people achieve their dreams. I get so much joy out of directing.

I still get joy out of acting. And I wanted to build something where I could maybe jump around based on whatever circumstance or situation I'm in and be of service in all of the areas. And unfortunately, the studio system and the way our industry works is now they say you have to do it this way or that way or that way. And unfortunately, it always comes down to money. Right? It's like a popularity contest. If you have money, you can do whatever you want. So I had to figure out how to reverse engineer the popularity contest and raise money with the intention of actually saying something and doing something

positive in the business of trying to walk the walk versus like so many companies, they say they're going to do good, but they're really doing it because that's what's popular at the moment. Right. It's marketable. It's marketable, but it's also, again, I go back to like this idea of a trauma response. It's a fear-based response. It's what will happen if I don't do it, which is what we're seeing right now in the business. I'm so happy that the pendulum has finally swung and marginalized groups and people of color are finally having their much earned, deserved moment. But you have to ask yourself, how many of these studios and companies are just simply looking to hire a person because of the way that they look, not because it's what's best for everybody? Because if they don't do it, then people are going to be looking at them and they're going to see, right?

And we're so afraid. And then, boom, we're making decisions based on fear and not love. No, this is important because representation matters. It's important because it's the way that you move hearts and you change the world. If you're only preaching to the converted, if you're talking in an echo chamber, if you're telling the same stories about the same people who look the same way, you're not going to affect the most hearts because there's 8 billion people on this planet. We should be building companies that look like the world. And so again, it's about abundance.

It's about making choices out of love and not fear. And in our industry right now, it's so fear-based, man. Everything is, they got to jump on the woke bandwagon quickly because then they're going to be left behind if they don't, or there are people who are afraid of being canceled. And all of these decisions are being made out of fear when in reality, I believe it's about abundance and love. When you make choices in abundance and love, not from a place of scarcity, it's not about doing the thing because everybody else is doing it. It's about checking in with your own body, with your own heart. Why did you get in this business? What makes you tick? And then the rest, I think, just kind of falls into place. It doesn't mean you're not going to have trials and hardships and challenges. I've

had plenty and I mess up all the time. But you go back to the reason, the why, if you will. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton find your push find your power peloton visit

peloton at one peloton.ca mayday mayday we've been compromised the pilot's a hitman i knew you were gonna be fun on january 24th tell me how to fly this thing mark walberg you know what's the difference between me and you you're gonna die don't shoot if we need them y'all need a pilot flight risk the apple watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. So let me ask you a thorny question. If you feel like a lot of the decisions are being made where the outcome is positive, but fundamentally underneath it's being made from a lot of the decisions are being made where the outcome is positive,

but fundamentally underneath it's being made from a place of fear, trauma, lack, scarcity, and it would be better and very likely more sustainable if it were made from a different place. And that sounds very much like your own personal journey as well. How do you bridge that gap? Because we're in this moment where, okay, so change has been set in motion, certainly not enough change, but it's been set in motion, maybe not for the reasons and including and increasing representation, but shift the underlying motivation so that it moves from fear, scarcity, and trauma to something which is broadly more constructive? And I know that's a really hard question, but if you pull it back to yourself, because you've done that on a micro level.

That's the only thing that I can do. That's what I was going to say is I can't answer that question. But here's an example that's coming to me. There have been times when in learning about gender equality and things like feminism, I had some pushbacks. Because there's some diametrically opposed ideas to how we as men are raised in society, whether they are rules that we are given or that have been spoken out loud or not, or messages that we've just been absorbing for generations. And one of the things that I had to come up against was this idea of housework as an example. And I've had a lot of conversations with men around housework

and my wife and I have had deep conversations. And I remember at first, my motivation for doing the housework was to please my wife. And as much as I'd like to believe I was, you know, quote unquote, more woke than that, or, you know, things that people would never say in public. The truth was like, I just look, this, it was frustrating. And I just want to please my wife. And, you know, I was putting too much of a burden on her in certain areas, regardless of our workload, regardless of any of that, my intention, my motivation was, okay, yeah, let me help. And there was a part of me that wasn't fully on board with it because I was tired or I had this to do or I had that to do. But over time, what ends up happening is you start to own this work and you feel that you are contributing in a meaningful way. You recognize the mundaneness and the deadly boredom that comes from this work. I love my wife. I love my family. And as you're doing the work, you're kind of unpacking all of the barriers that you

had against it. And then you see the weight that's taken off the person you love's shoulders. You see that they have time to do a little bit extra, that they can show up and be a better mother. You own it. You feel great about it. And then without that person asking, you then want to do more. Not because they want you to do it, but because you know what's what's right and what's best for your whole family. Because you're not just thinking about yourself. And then eventually that turns into, you know, all kinds of things. As an example, better sex, a happier life. And there's data and science that backs that up. The research shows all kinds of things like this. And every time I've been in a situation in my own life

where I maybe have had some, done something, not with a pure intention, but been open to the reasons why it's important. My heart's changed. And I've recognized along the way that it's in the act of doing the work with an open heart and mind that the work is starting to change me. And so there's a lot of areas in my life like that. And so I think that even as an example, my work ethic, which I talked about earlier and how I mentioned that it's a trauma response. The reason I figured that out was by doing deep, deep, deep therapy,

personal work, and recognizing that a lot of my early childhood wounds stem from just wanting to be valued, wanting to be seen as somebody who contributed, wanting to be seen as somebody who made a difference. And I can't separate those things from me. And when you compound that with the patriarchy and this idea that we have to work our entire lives for this carrot, that there's always a place that we can get to that's a little higher than where we are, that we can always work a little bit harder, that we can always make something a little bit better. When you compile all those things together, for me personally, I recognize that like, wow, I'm doing a lot of good.

But while I'm doing a lot of good, I'm also still seeking approval. I also still want, Jonathan, I want you to say, wow, Justin, you're really making a difference in the world because that's going to make that seven-year-old Justin who didn't feel seen feel better about himself. And so I have to look at that and say, okay, well, when is enough enough? When am I going to actually be satisfied? If I'm on this path, am I ever going to be satisfied? Or am I going to be spending every waking moment of my life thinking that something can be improved or be better, or I could have done a little bit more? And that's where that recognizing that trauma response comes into play. That's where recognizing

that the work that I'm doing, even though it might be good, has shaky origins. And I have to allow that work to then work on me to where I go, great, I'm going to continue doing the things that I'm doing. But you know what? I'm going to set some boundaries. I'm going to say, you know what? I'm not going to work this weekend. I'm going to say, you know what? I'm not going to work this weekend. I'm going to say, you know what? I don't need another project.

I don't need to make $100 million. I'd be okay with 50, whatever that is. And bringing it back to your question, clearly I'm on long rants today. I don't think we can judge what someone's intentions truly are. And even though I say, God, it's frustrating that people are just doing it out of fear

The fact that it's happening the fact that maybe somebody's going to hire a Black person in a role that they have never hired a black person for there's power in that that can change hearts Because we have to also look at the capacity of not just the person who's doing the hiring Maybe for the wrong reasons or the right reasons, but also for the person who's being hired, who's never had that role. And the work happens on all types of spiritual levels, on all types of molecular levels. And so long as the work is happening, that's a positive at the end of the day. That's it. We're always going to find those people that

hire somebody or do something for the wrong reasons. And then you come to find out that they're actually terrible people and their companies are, you know, full of shit. And yeah, they'll eventually become exposed. But there's a lot of people that I'm seeing personally that jumped on the woke bandwagon whose companies are improving, who are making more money, right? It's like the housework idea.

It's like, oh, wow, wait, this is actually working. This wasn't just some idea. Oh, wow, it does make sense. Oh, this person, because they've come from a different background, they have a different view of the world because they've had different experiences and different traumas. They're actually able to see things in a way that I can't, and it makes the project better. Holy shit. Why didn't I think of this before? That's also the stuff that's happening. It's expanding our view of the world. And as we expand our view of the world, we can reach more people.

We can touch more people. We can change more hearts. And what does the industry care about? Well, if all those things happen, then that means you make more money. So it all works out in the end. Hmm. then that means you make more money. So it all works out in the end. And part of that journey also is expectations, rising to or the fear of failing to meet personal expectations

and also industry-wide at scale. That expectation is like, what's the bottom line? What's the top line? But for you on an individual level, especially wrapped around the trauma that you've spoken about, expectations, I think for a lot of people play a big part. And it's been interesting to see you focus in, in your recent work on the expectations around how you define masculinity,

the model that has been sort of built into your life and also just sort of like into society at large. And to see you sort of take this lens of seeking, of questioning and saying, okay, what is this model? What has it done to me? What is it doing to the world? And can we somehow reimagine it in a way that invites more people into a place of openness, of vulnerability, of kindness, of equity? Yeah, that's the goal, honestly. When you said expectations, one of my favorite quotes are, expectations are planned disappointments. It's so true. It's in everything. But yeah, man,

this idea of masculinity for me has really been just a bunch of planned disappointments because I recognize that I will never measure up ever to the man that society tells me I need to be. And that kind of comes back to even the trauma response of becoming an entrepreneur and super successful and, you know, a multimillionaire and all the things that we want to be. We never ask ourselves why. Why do we want to amass so much? Why do we want to work as hard as we're working? Why do we have to be available 24 hours a day? Why do we do half of the things or all of the things that we do? We don't ask ourselves.

We don't take the time to check in and ask ourselves these questions. Bell Hooks writes that at a very young age, every boy engages in what she calls a psychic act of self-mutilation, where we commit soul murder. Think about that for a second, right? We're talking about faith and spirituality a lot. And in order to believe in a faith, then you first have to believe in a soul, that we have souls, right? Soul murder. I mean, we're not talking about murder. We're talking about soul murder. I'd argue that's worse. If you believe in an afterlife, right, at the very least you know that the murder, the person's going to be with God.

Soul murder is when you do it to yourself. You kill your soul. And so there's something about that word that when she writes that just hits me deeply because what soul murder really is, is as boys, and all humans do this, but really us boys, in order to become men, we're asked to cut ourselves off from our feelings. And what are our feelings? Our humanity, the thing that makes us human. To be accepted, to be liked, to be seen as valued enough, to be a contributing member

to society, to be a hustler, to be all of these things that the world is telling us we have to be, we have to sever ourselves from our hearts. And I'm a very sensitive person. As you can tell, I'm a thinker and I'm a rambler. And I always overthink things and come back to, well, did I say that right? Did I do that right? How do I feel about that? And I noticed throughout the course of my life that I was so often acting in a way that was completely counter to my core beliefs,

solely to be seen as good enough, man enough, accepted by other people, men and women, and hurt a lot of people, hurt myself a lot. And it just wasn't working for me. And, you know, over the last 10 years, as i've really been studying and looking at masculinity i i can't unlink it to any one of our global issues i believe that almost all of our global issues are linked directly to an imbalance of masculinity and i just think we have a lot of work to do and i I think as men especially, we have to recognize that, okay, maybe we have been the problem. But that also means that we are the solution. And we love to find solutions as men. It's one of our favorite things to do. So let's put our fragile male egos aside. Let's re-examine what it means to be brave and strong and courageous. And let's flip those meanings on their heads and use those things to solve these problems. But it's got to start with us. It doesn't start with the world. It doesn't start with social media and Instagram and marches and wearing feminist t-shirts and wokeness.

It starts with deep healing. It starts with an audience of one, which is you in front of that mirror. It feels like a good place for us to come full circle as well with us in front of that mirror. So hanging on this container of good life project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? I think I would have a little bit of a different answer every day. Today, it's to be brave enough to heal. Thank you. Thank you, man. listen now, be sure to click and download so it's ready to play when you're on the go. And of course,

if you haven't already done so, go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app. And if you appreciate the work that we're doing here on Good Life Project, please go and check out my new book, Sparked. It'll reveal some incredibly eye-opening things to you about your very favorite subject, you, and then show you how to tap these insights to reimagine and reinvent work as a source of meaning, purpose, and joy. You'll find a link in the show notes, or you can also find it at your favorite bookseller now. Thanks so much. See you next time. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here.

It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum.

Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary.