Good Life Project - Justin Tranter | Writing Songs the Whole World Sings

Episode Date: April 12, 2021

Justin Tranter is one of the top songwriters and collaborators in the music industry, writing with everyone from Lady Gaga, Dua Lipa, and Selena Gomez to Demi Lovato, Bebe Rexha, Brandy Clark, Shea Diamond and countless others. With their astonishing success and abundant self-love, you’d never imagine Justin was bullied mercilessly as a kid growing up in Chicago. Every day was torture until the Chicago Academy For The Arts high school provided a place of refuge and emergence and ultimately saved their life. Starting out in the business, Justin began their career on stage as the figurehead of the glam-punk band Semi Precious Weapons, but eventually discovered something surprising. They didn’t actually need to be on stage to do the part of the work they loved; collaborating, writing and helping other leading artists create works of art that told their stories in a powerful way and moved millions. Justin has since become a pioneer in the music industry, working tirelessly to elevate the voices of everyone around them — whether marginalized people, emerging artists or global pop icons. Along the way, Justin’s also remained a committed philanthropist & GLAAD Board member, using their platform to rally for change across a number of causes, including representation/inclusion for LGBTQIA+ people, women & women of color. And, in 2018, coming full-circle, Justin made a donation to fund a state-of-the-art recording studio and part-time music teacher at that very same place that was their salvation as a kid, the Chicago Academy For The Arts.You can find Justin at:Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/tranterjustin-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My guest today, Justin Tranter, is one of the top songwriters and collaborators in the music industry, writing with everyone from Lady Gaga, Dua Lipa, and Selena Gomez to Demi Lovato, Bebe Rexha, Brandy Clark, Shea Diamond, and countless others. With their astonishing success and abundant self-love, you'd never imagine Justin was bullied mercilessly as a kid growing up in Chicago. Every day, in fact, was torture until the Chicago Academy for the Arts High School provided a place of refuge and emergence and ultimately saved their life. Starting out in the business, Justin began their career on stage as the figurehead of the glam punk band Semi-Precious Weapons,

but eventually discovered something surprising. They didn't actually need to be on stage to do the part of the work they love, which was collaborating and writing and often helping other leading artists create works of art that told their stories in a powerful way and moved millions. And Justin has since become a true pioneer in the music industry, working tirelessly to elevate the voices of everyone around them, whether marginalized people, emerging artists, or global pop icons. And along the way, Justin has remained a committed philanthropist and GLAAD board member, using their platform to rally for change across a number of causes, including representation and inclusion for LGBTQIA plus people, women, and women of color. And in 2018, coming full circle,

Justin made this beautiful gesture, donating to fund a state-of-the-art recording studio and part-time music teacher at the very same place that was their salvation as a kid, the Chicago Academy for the Arts. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. We'll be right back. They've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca.

The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X.

Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. I understand when you were a kid, We need him. Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk. I understand when you were a kid, also, you used to paint the lines of songs on your walls from Jewel, Tori Amos, Paula Cole, and the like. That is very true. And I don't ever remember telling that story publicly, but I'm sure I did. No idea how you know that. But yes, I did. No idea how you know that, but yes, I did. I was just so obsessed and still am with, you know, all of the female singer songwriters from the nineties.

Um, never really connected to male artists ever. So it's just, my walls were covered with lyrics of Jewel, Ani DiFranco, Tori Amos. There was a huge Paula Cole quote on my ceiling above my bed that I would wake up to every morning. I was 17, desperate to get the fuck out of a small town. That lyric was like everything that mattered to me. So yeah, that is true. I don't know how you found that out, but that is true. All right.

Our crack research crew here goes deep into every aspect. We've actually been trailing you for the last 30 years by camera, so we can't have it all on tape. There is something about, especially the women who were performing the sort of singer-songwriter

at that time, that was so deeply moving. I mean, it's like I can remember the first time I heard Tori Amos. And I was just like, what is this? And then the first time I heard Paula Cole, and then I heard the voice, and it was haunting. And then when she started to split off and do

her own thing, I was like, wow. Such deep power. And the lyrics also, it was haunting. And then when she started to split off and do her own thing, I was like, wow, such deep power. And, and, and the lyrics also, it was so moving. Yeah. She, I was obsessed with all, as I said, all, all of those women of that time. But Paula Cole, I think for, you know, for a long time was my number one. And maybe in a lot of ways still is just because there was a big theatrical element to what she did as well. And as you can see from this outfit I'm wearing today, even on a casual Wednesday, I am very over the top. So the over the topness of Paula Cole really, really spoke to me. And she's just amazing. She sounds just as good as she did when she was in

her 20s it's amazing oh that's awesome i'm gonna have to go check that out actually i remember seeing jewel for the first time on public access tv in new york before she had broken and she's just playing a set with her guitar and and i'm i'm like who is this you know and then 18 months later it's like the whole world yeah um but it is really it's so cool to sort of like catch the really really really really early moments of artists like that yeah it's a jewel a friend of mine was was way into jewel before anybody else knew about it and she played me a song um i can't what the song is called it's on the big the first you know the first huge massive jewel album where she goes through and like talks

about basically kids being made fun of. And there's, she uses the F word, the derogatory word for me, for queer people. And I was like, I don't know if I can get into this. But then I became obsessed with Jewel a couple of months later. But a friend of mine was in it way before I was. But the first thing she played me was Jewel just saying

the F word over and over. I was like, I don't know if I can do this. Yeah. I guess that really, it touches on a lot of different things, but when you're a kid also, you were bullied. You lived a tough life simply because of who you were. Walking through every day for you, it sounds like was not a fun and sometimes even a dangerous experience. Yes, that is very true. I can laugh at it now. Actually, I even laugh at it then. I'm very grateful and very lucky to my parents and I guess in a way to myself that I always knew that the bullies were wrong. But yeah, it was tough. It was a weird thing looking back of like expect going to school every day, expecting

something horrible to be said to you at least a couple of times through every single day. But as I said at the beginning, I'm very grateful that I knew the whole time they were wrong. I knew that they're like, you're all going to regret this. You're all going to feel like such idiots for treating me this way. Because one, what you're doing is gross. And two, I'm going to get the fuck out of here and I'm going to be fabulous. And you're going to be a police officer. And the out of here we're talking about, by the way, is it's a suburb of Chicago where you came up.

Were your parents, I mean, while this was all going on, I'm always curious, because it sounds like you were a pretty tight-knit family. Were your parents looped in on sort of like the reality of your day-to-day life? You know, I kept a lot of it a secret and there'd be moments where they would, something so bad would happen whether

it was you know a huge chunk of my hair ripped out on the bus on the way home from school so there's really no way to hide that or you know I had I'm the youngest of four so anytime that we were in the same school when there was something that was something so bad happened that kind of the whole school knew about it. My parents would hear about it. They were of course horrified and terrified and, you know, always asked me, should we find you a different school? Should we do this? Should we do that? And my freshman year of high school, I went to public high school for one semester and it did get so bad just to back up a tiny bit. In the summer after seventh grade and eighth grade, I went to this theater. It wasn't like a sleepover camp, but it was like a theater, summer theater program. And I met this young woman named Sammy Simpkin, who was just so confident and so fierce and had like blonde hair

down to her ankles. And I just wanted to be her best friend and be her, uh, at the same time. And she, she was going to the Chicago Academy for the arts. So while I was in hell, my, she kept saying, I talked to her once a week or something. And, you know, cause this was before texting or cell phones, it's 1994. So, you know, she would just be like, you have to come visit, you have to come visit. So before I even auditioned for the school and got into the school, I went and shadowed her for a day. And the first second I walked in there, I couldn't believe it. Just the outfits, the joy, you know, students in the hallways, students talking to teachers on purpose, like talking about whatever it was that, you know, students in the hallways, students talking to teachers on purpose,

like talking about whatever it was that, you know, art or, or the musical, or even just like, do you like my elf? Like teachers talking to students on purpose and like, just, you know, the, the diversity that I already mentioned, all of it. When I first walked in there, I couldn't believe it. And it was like a movie or a TV show of, you know, there's kids in their full dance outfits, just stretching in the middle of the stairwell. And you'd like step over them while they're in the splits or someone vocally warming up in the bathroom, sounding better than any singer you've ever heard in real life. And that being exciting, but also terrifying. Like, I'm not going to get into this school. Listen to that girl. I'm curious. Do you remember the feeling

of what it must've been 14 year old you, right? When sort of like living the prior 14 years of your life and sort of like enduring each day, the first time you step in to this new place, what the feeling of that was for you? i do i remember it in my head it looks like a movie uh or tv show i can see it all perfectly still yeah um it's funny i'm fascinated by the concept of sliding doors and you know we especially when you have a school like this which is transformative which changed literally changed the the course of your life. But also it's an opportunity which is available to few. It's a type of thing where it's an audition-based type of thing. I'm fascinated by the concept of what would have happened if on the day of your audition,

you were just two steps to the left or to the right. It didn't quite work out. I'm curious whether you ever think of like revisit that. Well, it did happen. That's exactly what happened. I went into audition and luckily, I think I said the right thing. I just said, well, I want to be a superstar and I want to be safe. And he asked me a couple more questions about the safety side of things. And also about my determination that those parts are kind of vague. I don't really remember those answers, but I do remember he then just straight up said, well, I can't make you a superstar. You never will be, but I can make you safe. And that was it. Like every time I talk about it,

I've told the story a hundred times, I still choke up and I'm about to cry right now, but like, it was, it was insane. And I don't know why. I don't know why he thought that I deserved to be safe. Maybe he thought everyone deserved to be safe. I don't know what it was, but I fucking won the lottery and never, ever looked back. Yeah. I mean, that's such a beautiful moment. And also to know that there was somebody who didn't know you, wasn't invested in you. There are probably like 20 other kids in the hallway waiting to step into that same room and to know that this person saw something in you that said, like, you need to be here. It's so powerful. You end up there, like you said, you'd kind of been writing songs on the side, but it sounds like pretty soon into that, there's the musical theater

side, there's a performer side, but it sounds like a teacher started to take notice and invite you and say like every Friday, hey, listen, there's something going on with you on the songwriting side that we need to keep leaning into. Academy Singers, which was kind of like a traveling, no offense to show choirs, but it was a lot fucking cooler than a show choir. It was like, we would sing some pretty cool music and the choreography was a little more modern. Yes, it was a private school and there were some kids who could afford full tuition, but a lot of kids couldn't. And so a lot of kids were there on scholarship. And so Academy Singers was a big way that the school raised money. I got to Academy Singers rehearsal like way early. I was in on the piano playing a song

I had written called Bye Bye Princess. I remember it vividly. Terrible song, but the heart was there. And again, kind of brutal honesty, just like Mr. Radloff, who got me into the school. You know, Miss C was just like, that song's not great, but there's something there. I think that there's something special here. You're 15, or maybe I was 16 at that point, by the time that she noticed. And, you know, for my senior recital at that school, I performed like four songs, original songs. And, you know, it was just, it's, you know, it changed, changed my life forever. And obviously I don't know if she hadn't walked in that day. I think I might've spent my whole career, like trying to be, you know know a chorus boy in musicals which was never going to happen for me yeah i mean it sounds like that that was there's so much serendipity meets um just constantly showing up day after day after day after day and saying i'm gonna keep doing the work

um you know it's interesting also at the time, you're sort of developing the musical chops and developing the interest. But it sounds like, and tell me if I have the timing right, it sounds like it was right around there where you also started to say, okay, so there's also another potential use of art and music and performance, and that's in the context of activism. What would happen if we put these two things together, especially in the context of who you are and the people around you and what you saw going on in the world? And you end up putting together a benefit, an AIDS benefit in high school, which it sounds like that really was planting the seeds for a lifelong devotion to advocacy for you. Yeah. I mean, yeah, the timeline is exactly right. My senior year of high school, a couple of people very close to me, family friends and actual, you know, and my friends and whatever, you know, had been diagnosed with HIV. And one of them was pretty close to, you know, dying from it. And I just thought like, this is crazy. We should be doing something. So in my teenage confidence and delusion, I thought I could make a difference because I think I could, and I did make a difference, right? We don't know how to do

anything else. So let's just do a show. We'll raise money and, you know, we can do a silent auction, I guess. My mom helped me with that. It was amazing. And it was so rewarding. And it made me go like, like you said before, like, oh, okay. I think I get it. I can put, I can put art and music and performance. I can put these things together and actually have it be for something that matters. And of course, my high school was supportive of it school, it was this magical thing where students were in charge of it and we were all coming together for the first time. And this AIDS benefit still happens every single year at my school, almost 25 years later. So it's really, really crazy. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, to set something in motion like that is so powerful. You end up eventually moving on um you head over to boston in berkeley music school um spend a couple years um really honing your chops in

songwriting biz management um out in three years from what i understand which which interestingly enough we had um madison mcferrin in uh last year the year before okay who also was at berkeley as bobby mcerrin's daughter. And she was telling us, it was really interesting being at Berkeley because there was this weird stigma that if you actually were there for all four years and graduated, it was because you didn't get discovered. And it was almost a bad thing to last the entire four years. It sounds like that was the of like your the cultural experience you had to no i think you know i think things have changed now um but i finished

school um and you know also i think it was really important to because there were i had mentioned a couple times of not finishing and you know my uh my dad I can talk about, I don't know if I've ever really talked about it, but I, he's, he's open about it. You know, he was losing everything because of computers and the job that he did was being taken over computers and the motherfucker couldn't even send an email, let alone run a business that way. And so like the money that he was finding a way to pay for my school, he didn't actually have anymore and was going into crazy amounts of debt to figure this out for me. So it was like, no, you're, you're going to finish. Um, so I finished, but I did summers. Um, so I could get out as soon as

possible. And cause I of course was just convinced I was going to be, you to be the male Ani DiFranco, Tori Amos, Paula Cole, and just skyrocket. You end up in New York. You kind of get semi-famous, right? Semi-Freshest Weapons, Glam Punk Band. You're the front person out there. I guess you've got label interest. You're a couple iterations through the whole deal thing. Um, um, and still writing songs, but performing and really being, uh, in front. Um, but like happens to so many in the business, you know, even if you get a fast deal, even

if it looks like all the stars are aligning, you know, it can get pulled out from under you in the blink of an eye. So you're rising up, you're touring, you're out there on the road even for a couple of years with Gaga on her Monster Ball tour. And then the industry side kind of says, hmm, we're kind of done with you. But there was a safety net for you,

which sounds like actually was a really, another one of these moments of kismet for you. It's a sort of like, okay, maybe there is like the industry is right for me, but maybe where I am in the industry isn't. Right. Yeah. I mean, it just kept being endless, endless roadblocks. So I started the band and as you said, the band did things and we had a manager, a really, really awful manager, but he was very connected. And so we just let him kind of ruin our lives continuously for many years. And he was very, uh, passive, aggressively homophobic. And the band was signed to Warner chapel for our publishing deal. And we went, I went in to play the new album for the person who signed us to publishing very, very typical industry story. Your champion moves on, gets fired, whatever, whatever it was, your champion's gone.

Inside of our publishing company, we're like, well, this is it. Let me go meet with the new person and just see what happens. But another moment of brutal honesty, she said, you know, everyone knows your band's going to get dropped from Epic. Better or worse, I did exactly what I wanted for a good amount of years. I was ready to just kind of help other people tell their stories and elevate those and focus those the best that I could. And I thought it was taking forever.

I was like, what is going on? I've written all these songs. Nobody wants them. But Kelly Clarkson cut a song like three months into this process. And I know now that that is a crazy quick time for a new songwriter, even though I wasn't a new songwriter,

new to that part of the business. But yeah, walked into that office and someone said, do you want to write for other people? And I luckily said yes. And my whole life changed. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk.

The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary.

It's really interesting, right? Because you shared something. It was in Paper Magazine a couple years back where you said, I think so much my drive to be an artist, a rock star frontman, was basically to prove my bullies wrong. But it feels like the thing that actually more accomplished that and also just was the thing that let a really deeply fulfilling part of your career open up was not being front and center. It's like, okay, I did that. But if anything, the thing that proved them wrong and forget about them, the thing that allowed you to come alive was when you stepped back from the stage and said, maybe there's another way to be in this. Yeah. I mean, in a weird way, I wonder, was that like a relief for you? Yeah. Because there's so much wrapped around you being that front and center person. And there's also kind of living with your shields up, living with a certain amount of vigilance. When you sort of step into the side of the business that you're doing, you're like, oh, oh wait this is actually not just an adequate substitute it's actually the thing i want to do

and that level of constant like aggression and vigilance it doesn't have to be there like what yeah when you for first out in the music i think back to back to, was it 2009? Adam Lambert, American Idol. Then he comes out and it's this massive controversy. And you're like, we're not that far from that, but we are on the same side. I think on the performing side, on the forward-facing side of the business, it's much more commonplace and it's not you have seen so many more artists now um standing in their sexuality their gender identity um but i guess what i was curious about is while it feels like there's been a lot of progress and you know we're not that where we we need to be or could be but it feels like there's been a lot of progress on the stage side on the performance the art side

when you show up and you start to deepen your career and you've got incredible chops, you're like writing with the top names in the business, massively successful, but behind the scenes on the songwriting side of things, is there that similar progress? Is it common to be in a room with and to be working with openly queer people who are on that side of the business? Or was there this lag time where the performance, the artistry side is moving a lot faster, but behind the scenes, it's still kind of more buttoned down? I'm curious about that. it's a great question you know when you have choice savan who already has a huge youtube following uh when he puts out great music people are going to

hear it because he already has it so there's no one to stop him from succeeding like that um lil nas x you know i think lil nas x writes some of the best melodies in the world right now i know like there's this you know with the his first song being so huge and him having this very um humorous personality that i think people are willing to write off the talent the talent is real you know uh his melodies are nuts um and his lyrics are quirky and smart. And anyway, Lil Nas X had this huge sort of meme internet platform. So when he put out Old Town Road, and whether you're a fan or not, I'm a huge fan of that song. It's so good. And it's so hooky. When he had that meme following, not even a music following, he put out a couple other songs that didn't connect. But because there was a following, not even a music following. He put out a couple other songs that didn't connect, but because there was a following, when he put out a song that did connect, you can't stop it.

It's going to literally be the most successful song of all time because he, as a very queer person, even though he had to come out as a pop star, the people that followed him online for his memes and his Twitter jokes, they knew who he was. He wasn't hiding. You know, so I think that in the artist side of things, it's progressed and it still needs to be a lot better, as you said, but it's progressed

because you can't stop it. You can't. These kids can go and build their own fan base. They don't fucking need the gatekeeper. They own the gate. They are the gatekeeper. Like, you know,

so on the business side of things, yes, there is a lag time. And it is like you know so on the business side of things yes it there is a lag time uh and it is you know when i i do this uh a concert every year uh to benefit glad um amazing lgbtq media uh advocacy organization and we do a concert every, every year, the night before spirit day. And if you don't know what spirit day is, it's just a sort of a way for everyone in school started in schools, but schools, media, athletes, everyone to wear purple and show that they are either LGBTQ or an LGBTQ ally. So the night before we do a big concert and it's the focus on the

concert is on LGBTQ songwriters. And so we have the songwriters themselves, and then hopefully a couple of guest stars every year of, you know, quote unquote famous people to come sing songs written or co-written by LGBTQ people. And they're always hits. I want to focus on the hits. And the first year, you know, as far as I know, the first year I did it, I was the only openly queer person, LGBTQ person who had hits that year. So I did a handful of my songs and then I had

people like Adam Lambert and other folks come and sing classics written by LGBTQ people. And then the second year there was like three LGBTQ songwriters who had big hits. And then, you know, the last year we were able to do it before COVID happened, there was like seven of us. So a huge lag time in the executives, you know, things are catching up quicker. I would still like it to be more, you know, it needs to be a lot more LGBTQ people, but it's definitely getting better. Yeah. I as you rise up within this industry, you're in it for a chunk of time now, succeeding at the highest levels. And interestingly, you're on the outside, you're a powerful advocate, participating in GLAAD, receiving a whole bunch of awards.

But also it's interesting to see you almost like from the inside out saying, okay, so if the industry, the way it's structured, isn't creating this opportunity at a pace that I would love to see, let's see if we can just do it ourselves. So yeah, after the amazing years that I've had writing songs with and for other people in this insane, fucked up, beautiful, horrible industry. I thought like the next step for me, the next step to kind of giving back, but also growing my brand and growing my business would be to create a publishing company and a record label where talent was always put first. So, you know, there are a lot of amazing writers that because they come from marginalized groups are not getting

the attention and love they deserve or amazing artists that are not giving the love and attention they deserve. So created Facet as a way to just find young artists and writers. Well, young isn't the right word. Up and coming, undiscovered. I don't give a shit about age. Talent does not have a number. So to find these people that deserve to be in the biggest rooms in the world and deserve to have their music heard by the world and kind of give them a shot and give them a chance to do it. It's obviously still a business and it's still trying to achieve greatness emotionally and musically and financially, but really giving people a shot who normally don't get it. Yeah. I love that. It's really fascinating to me also is when, I think when we think about

marginalized groups these days, we often think about LGBTQ, we think about BIPOC, people of color, but it's kind of fascinating that in the music industry, and maybe this is unique to the music industry. I don't think so, but I think so many people look at it really as a young person's game. It's sort of like, but especially on the writing side, like you said, it's almost like the more life you've lived, the more raw material you've got to share. But on the sort of business and forward-facing side of the industry, that's not what people are looking for. Yeah, no, there's definitely an odd, creepy obsession with youth. And again, I'm not opposed to signing young people who are shockingly talented. I, you know, I signed an amazing artist named Edie, Y-D-E, and she's a teenager, but she's

amazing. But I've also signed Shia Diamond, who is in her 40s. And, you know, when we signed Diana Gordon, she was in her 30s. And I just don't see, you know, Wes Perrion's an amazing writer and artist that I've been working with for a couple years. And I don't know his exact age, to be honest, but like, you know, he's been in the business for a minute and I feel like he's just hitting his stride. I feel like, you know, it doesn't matter. For me, I didn't hit my stride as a songwriter.

I didn't really start writing my best stuff until I was 33, 34, 35. And I feel like now I'm still writing great stuff and expanding, you know, the field that I'm working in and doing all this cool film and TV stuff. And it's only getting better and wiser. And there is something great about that raw, like, open, bloody hearted, you know, early twenties way that you write songs and approach music. But I feel like there's still a lot of beauty in other age groups that can be just as valid and just as marketable and just as consumed. Yeah. And I mean, especially right because people don't stop listening to music when you're in your thirties, forties and fifties.

And yet, you know, they want to hear lyrics and stories told that are relatable to them. To them? You know, to like the season. Yes, it's nice to reflect back on. You're like, oh, I can touch back on that from like, you know, back in the day. But we kind of want to hear, you know, something where we can step into it now also. You know, I'm in my 50s and I'm kind of like, I love music of every age and every genre. But there's something really poignant when I hear a story that's being told where it hits me in the heart because

I'm in that now. Yeah, same. And I feel like, you know, that there's a way just like, you know, older people can relate to songs written by 20 year olds. I think that 20 year olds can relate to songs written by 50 year olds. You know, I think that as long as the music's great, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. Um, and there are examples of that through time. And it's interesting, you know, in other fields in, in film and TV, of course, like young flashy movie stars are one

thing, but when it comes to the directors and the writers, you know, the, the, the, the wisdom and the age, and when it comes to novels and it comes to authors and it comes to painters and in those industries, you know, wisdom and experience is very much valued. And then for some reason in the music business, it is the opposite. So I want to make sure that with Facet, I open doors for just the most talented people

that I come across. And it doesn't matter their age and it doesn't matter how long they've been in the business and haven't had that big break yet. It doesn't, none of that matters to me. What matters to me is that they have a clear point of view and that they give a fuck about what they're doing. Yeah. When you think about what you're doing, you know, so you're not just a business owner

on that side of things and, and, but things, but you're stepping into this really fascinating role of mentor, where you're working with people, regardless of who they are, who are certainly in the early season of their writing careers. Yeah. So you've been out there as a performer. You have been out there as a songwriter and a collaborator. And in this role of mentor, how is that different for you? It's beautiful. It's frustrating. It's rewarding.

It makes me fall in love with music over and over again, like watching people get really excited for their first big cut, for their first big song that has a shot at radio, for their first song that they get that has a shot at radio for their first, for the first song that they get that someone makes a music video for, you know, all that stuff is so exciting, but it's also, you know, it is, um, you know, watching people self-sabotage and watching people get in their own way. Um, watching people second guess, um, is not, you know, I would be lying to you if I said it's the easiest thing to do. It's not, it's not easy to do. And also it's not easy to watch me fuck up sometimes as a mentor of like, Oh, maybe I was too hard on them here. Maybe I wasn't hard enough here. Or maybe,

you know, no one, I, what I have learned in a big way is that like, not everyone can work the way that I do. And when I first got a chance to write songs with and for other people, I just hit the ground running. And I was writing 10 songs a week, 12 songs a week, eight songs. I mean, it's just an insane amount of music. And, you know, but in a lot of these sessions, there are young people pouring their hearts out. And I am there to gather the ideas and focus the ideas, which can be very emotionally draining, but the core of the idea, the heart of it is not mine in a lot of my sessions. So it's easier for me, even though it can be emotionally exhausting, it can be a lot,

it's easier for me to keep going and have this, this output that is, is not human. A lot of writers, no matter the age, they can't do that number because the stories are coming from deep, deep, deep within them. And there just aren't that many to tell, you know, you can, whereas I'm organizing and focusing and elevating a lot of them. So I can, then when there are two songs a week that are my stories, well, then there's eight a week that aren't, you know, so those two, you know, anyway, so being a mentor and learning that I need to understand how everybody works, not just myself. And I need to, you know, with Mark Taylor, who runs my publishing company specifically talking about writers right now, you know, Mark Taylor's really good at listening to them and

figuring out what are the right sessions. And not that we're going to get it perfect every time, but, you know, it's a really, really beautiful process to like, how do you really slay for somebody? And each person is different. So each person has a different way to slay for them. It's not always going to be the same. So yeah, being a mentor is great.

Long story, not short. Being a mentor is amazing, but it's a whole other creative process that I never imagined I would be taking, but I'm so glad that I am. Yeah. I mean, it's sort of like, you share in the lows, right? But you also share in that. There's a Yiddish word that I love. Grandmother, she is naches, which translates roughly to it's the joy you feel when somebody succeeds who you so love and hold that you feel it as your own. And I feel like there's got to be some of that with these people because you see them struggling, you see them working and stumbling and stumbling and stumbling.

And when they finally get something where the market's like, yeah, that's got to feel amazing, not just for them, but for you also. It's so exciting. It just feels so good to watch someone be happy. It feels so good to watch, even if it's just like a session, like, oh, call someone, hey, we're going in with so-and-so A-list artists. Oh, we're flying to New York to work on the Ariana album, whatever it is until like, I'm excited, but, um, I don't want to say that, you know, I mean, things do become relative. So I'm always grateful. I'm always so appreciative when somebody who I respect wants to work with me, but it does, you know, I'd be lying if I said it didn't, it doesn't become, you know, relative and you don't get somewhat desensitized to it,

but watching a new writer be like, what the fuck are we doing? Where are we going? Who, wait, they really want us in the room with them. That is like, what the fuck are we doing? Where are we going? Who, wait, they really want us in the room with them. That is like, uh, that makes me remember my life. It wasn't, by the way, it wasn't that long ago. It's like, it was, you know, 2015 was the year, first year I started getting like sessions with, with A-list people, but I'm so grateful to be brought back to that feeling, to be brought back to that 2015 feeling. And of course, there are some amazing, brilliant people I haven't had the chance to work with yet. And so when I, hopefully if I ever get those phone calls, I will get that

feeling myself all over again. But there is something really beautiful about getting that feeling, you know, every couple of weeks with one of the people that I work with. Yeah. It's almost like in a weird way by working with all these different people, you increase the likelihood that that happens more often. Even if it's at a lesser level, it becomes like a consistent hum. Yep. Completely. It does. And it's just cool. And it's like, we have these amazing producer writers who are in Miami right now working with a lot of really cool people. And I'm just seeing on their Instagram, all these amazing writers and people they're co-producing with. And I just get excited for the roommates looking at their Instagram. I'm like, oh shit, they're in with them. Oh my God, that's awesome.

Oh my God, this is so cool. Like, it's just, I don't know. It makes me happy. Even though most of the time Instagram brings me sadness, that is the part of Instagram that brings me a lot of joy. It is the double-edged sword of like every form of social media out there on the planet. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun.

On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot?

Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. You know, it's interesting also because, you know, so you're in this endeavor right now and you're playing this new role. And at the the same time the business at large is changing profoundly like in the fastest ways from you know like moving to the old days to streaming and now you know like in in the blink of an eye everyone's talking about nfts in the music industry and it's it's kind of crazy it's like you're you're in this position where you're like i'm watching this from the outside in but you're in this position where you're like, I'm watching this from the outside in, but you're living this every day.

It's a shit show. It's not ideal. to like preserve my own heart and to preserve my own love for making music and making any form of art is like, I got to keep focused on, but then again, none of this matters. This business does not matter. If the music isn't great, this, these NFTs don't matter. If you don't, the only reason you're going to care about these artists to, I think, I don't even know if the word is buy an NFT. I think it is. If you know, if you're going to care about these artists to, I think, I don't even know if the word is buy an NFT. I think it is. If you're going to buy an NFT, the only reason you're going to do it is because you really care about this artist and they have taken you on such a long-term journey with them for at least a couple albums. If your NFT is going to be worth anything, right?

So at least a couple albums for the most part that you really care about this person. You care about their music. So I just keep going back to, we have on Facet Records, we have this unbelievable new artist named Jake Wesley Rogers, who's putting out his first single, I want to say May 7th, but those dates can always change. But let's just say May of 2021, whenever you're listening to this. And he is just the realest of real deals. He can sit alone at a piano and write a song that blows your mind. He can co-write with people and with me and blow my mind. He can perform his ass off. He can create this visual for his debut video that's coming that is like bonkers, but yet just strip it all back and sing to you through his phone and your heart breaks or your heart celebrates. So I just keep

to not be driven insane by the bad executives of the business. Just we need to lay up, just find someone who's researching well, just do this, just do that. Um, and those things are valid. And there are some amazing musicians that just, I mean, I think Lil Nas X, I talk about all the time. I think he's genius. Um, you know, so there are those people that just kind of pop off out of nowhere with quote unquote, good data and good research. So it's, I'm not shading the people that started their careers that way, just for me personally, to be inspired someone like Jake Wesley Rogers, there's this video of him, a song,

he performs it live and it's called Jacob from the Bible and he performs it in a church. And it's like, I just have to focus on things like that and be like, yes, one day it's gonna stream well. Hopefully it might be the day it comes out. It might be a year afterwards. I don't care. One day he's gonna sell out stadiums. It might be a year after his debut album't care. One day he's going to sell out stadiums. It might be a year after his debut album. It might be 10 years after debut album. I, I can't care about

that else. I'm going to quit. I have to focus on true talents who are living their truth through their music, who believe in their craft, who push themselves in their craft, who studied their craft. And that doesn't mean music school, if that's not your thing or that's not available to you, it just means that you figure it the fuck out and you don't give up learning and growing yourself. And so, yeah, the business is ever changing. And pop music is not the coolest genre in the world right now. Hip hop is. And I think hip hop has every right to be the coolest genre in the world. I only mention it because I come from the pop songwriting community and the pop A&R people at labels and pop publishers.

And everyone's in a fucking panic right now because we're not cool. I'm just like, chill the fuck out. Like, it's going to be fine. Yeah, but what an important reminder, right? To sort of like bring it back to like, you know what? You can't control the trappings of the industry, the distribution systems, the money and all this stuff. But the one thing that you can control is to be honest and to devote yourself to the

crowd. And do you love it? And do you love it? Do you love what you're giving your time to as a songwriter, as an artist, as an executive, as a mentor? Do you love it? That's all I can fucking gauge anymore. You know, the, the, the times where I try to like think, Oh, I think that's just a smart business choice. It's never, it's never worked for me. It does work for some people.

Some people have that brain. My brain does not work that way. So I just can't, I can't think about it. And I have to mute certain Instagrams that like pull up the data from the industry or the charts or all that stuff. Because once you get obsessed with it, I feel like that's when I like have a bad week of writing. Cause I'm not thinking about what I love. Yeah. It's like, it pulls you out of your heart. Um, and then even if you have something that's fine, I often wonder like if you go there and even if you figure out the algorithm that lets you be quote financially successful, which is that, you know, if you know that it's not actually the deepest part of you, like what you really want to be saying and

how you want to be in the world showing up through that, it's still going to leave you hollow. You're like, okay, so you can pay your rent, which is important, but there's a deeper thing, which still like stays empty. Completely. And I feel like, you know, some people get into this business for money and I am so grateful for the financial security that I have for me and my parents. And I'm never, ever trying to like shade that or demean that. And I'm never trying to be unaware of my privilege, but I did not get into this business for money. I got into it because I had something to say. I got into it because music makes me feel better than anything.

I got into it because I just wanted to make things that people heard and that maybe affected them. And so like if I obsess over the money part of it, it's just never going to work for me. But some people, that is how they plan and function and scheme and create and like fucking good for them. But it sounds exhausting to me. Yeah. I mean, for you, like you coming from a heart center place has been such a common theme and, and then also it extends beyond you. We've been focused a lot on the music, but you know, there's more than that in your life. And part of, I know what your devotion has been since from the earliest days is saying, okay, so how can we put this together in a way that also helps disenfranchised, marginalized communities

rise up, be recognized, be able to exist in an equitable space in the world? And a lot of that has shown up for you in an an increasing way and you saying yes to devoting your time your resources to all sorts of um foundations and efforts you know from being on the board of glad to um you know and i know 2016 after the pulse nightclub you know that was a big moment for you where you sort of you know you harness people to bring them together. But it, you know, it's spirit day concert in LA, which was, I guess, 2019, right? We did it three years in a row now. So I think it was 2018, no, 2017, 18 and 19, right? Cause last year. Oh, I thought it was two. I didn't realize it was three. Um, but I mean, it seems like that is really you, you saying,

okay, yes to the music. This is what I love. But also there's this whole other way that I can step into the world and contribute. That's really deeply, fully meaning to me. And it seems like that is just a huge part of what takes up your heart and your mind these days as well. Yeah, it has been since I was young. I don't know why. My parents are amazing people. I talk about them all the time.

Yeah, it's a big part of who I am. And it's I mean, my parents are amazing people. I talk about them all the time. Yeah. It's a, it's a big part of who I am and it's a big part of what makes me happy. And, you know, as a kid, the AIDS benefit I created at my high school, the work that I did after the Pulse shooting in Orlando, the board of GLAAD, I'm on the board of GLAAD. I'm on the board of trustees for ACLU SoCal. I'm on the musicians council for every town, the gun safety organization. It's just a huge, I feel like if you have any sort of privilege and you're not paying it forward, you're just a piece of shit. You know, I, all the time I quote Roxane Gay, who says, if you're listening to this or you're reading this, you have some form of privilege because there are people in the world if you're listening to this or you're reading this, you have some form of privilege because there are people in the world who can't listen to this and can't read this.

And my privilege is bountiful. And I feel like if I'm not paying that forward at all times, then what is the point of this? And that is just such an important part of what I want to do. And I'm, and what I'm loving too, is I'm seeing, I'm seeing gaps in it. You know, the, I believe so much that we need so many more trans and gender, non-conforming voices, specifically trans and gender non-conforming people of color in the music business and in the arts world as a whole. And, you know, Shia Diamond's unbelievable, this unbelievable artist that I work with, she performs at all these amazing events. And, you know, to quote her, and I don't

think she'll get mad at me for quoting her, you know, I am the people that they are raising money for. Somebody give me the fucking money. Like, you know, like I am the community. So somebody help me. And so I'm, I'm seeing these gaps and, and, and I, and my next, my next big dream is I want to, um, you know, I'm going to buy, I'm not wanting, I'm going to, I'm going to buy a building here in Los Angeles to start. Hopefully they end up all over the country and all over the world, um, where we can house trans and gender non-conforming artists of all types of art and give them a place to stay for free for a couple of years and have there be a, you know, a basement or a ground floor where there can be community activities and, and things that all young artists need to need to learn. I mean,

I still don't even know how to do my fucking taxes. You know, I think God checkbooks ended because I couldn't handle that, you know, like, but most importantly, give trans people a chance and gender nonconforming people a chance to, you know, move to LA or if they're already here, they can, they can really just focus on their art for a couple of years because we keep, you know, and I'm one of those people, we keep saying, you know, we got to open these doors and blah, blah, blah. But like opening doors is one thing, but can they survive while they're trying to walk through them? Um, so that is the next step for me that I want to do while, while continuing to support all these humongous, amazing national organizations,

but do something that's more on a local level that can really like help people's specific day to day life. And that's kind of my next step. But for me, it's, it's never going to stop. The whole fun of, of succeeding and making this money is to give it away and to find fucking cool things to do with it and to bring people joy and

bring people security because I have enough. I love that. That's beautiful. And before we come full circle, there's one other thing that has literally just dropped down into my radar. That's something that you've been working on in stealth mode that now is no longer stealth mode i don't want to ask you about because it sounds amazing you're working on a musical yes um with dina menzel and eve ensler yes it's i literally you just said that and i'm not kidding i just got chills even though i've been working for two years but hearing other people say it uh gives, gives me chills. Uh, and I, I honestly can't, I'm getting emotional. I don't, I'm a crazy person. I feel crazy. Um, I'm getting emotional because, uh, it's such a dream come true for me. And you know, the reason I started making music

was because of musicals and then singer songwriters and glam bands got me distracted. I'm glad they distracted me because it was a great journey. But musicals are why I got into music and working with these brilliant fucking women who are the best at this art form. You know, they are, you know, I mean, I think the Vagina Monologues is one of the most important pieces

of political theater of all time. Written by Eve Ensler, who now goes by V. And Idina Menzel, obviously between Rent and Wicked and Frozen. I mean, she and what's great is Idina is writing these songs with us. So we have the star's perspective of what she needs as an actress and what beats we are missing to get her there emotionally. And then most importantly, it is a musical about climate crisis. And it's focusing specifically on the extinction of animals and the extinction of independent farmers. So it's a really powerful piece so far. And it's feeling really, really good. And American Repertory Theater is behind it. Diane Paulus is directing it, Tony award-winning director. So I am in the company of these like three brilliant fucking women who know this art form inside and out. And I just get to sit there and listen and learn and then like be fierce when it's my turn. You know, my turn. It's unbelievable. I love it. That sounds incredible. I'm curious about something. You've created the opportunity

now to, in an interesting way, kind of come full circle to when you started out and you walk into that high school for the first time and then you have one or two people who say, huh, this kid needs to be here and then invest in you and play the role of mentor. It's like you're stepping into that in a really powerful way right now. I'm trying to as carefully as possible because being a mentor is a very important thing and I don't want to fuck it up. So I'm trying to step into that role as safely and as beautifully as possible. And I hope that I'm succeeding. Yeah. It feels like a good place for us to come full circle as well. So hanging out here in this container of a good life project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? To live a good life for me, to hang out with my parents,

which is very easy because they live with me. To be happy. And happiness comes in so many different ways. I've been sledding the last couple of days and it's made me happier than anything in the world. Watching my dog chase me down the fucking hill. And just make, make things that's, that's living a good life and alcohol. That's always great.

During a pandemic. Exactly. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code

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