Good Life Project - Kulap Vilaysack | Origin Story, It’s Complicated

Episode Date: December 14, 2020

Kulap’s parents fled violence in Laos, finding themselves in a refugee camp in Thailand, before moving to DC, where Kulap would be born, and then Minnesota, where she’d grow up. Her world was blown apart when, at the age of 14, in the heat of a fight, Kulap’s mom revealed that her father was not, in fact, her biological dad. The trauma of that moment shook her, but would then get largely buried, as she left home, built a career and got married. Now, decades later, a successful writer/director, actor, comedian, former co-host of the longrunning Who Charted podcast where she sat behind the mic for 8 years, and creator, show-runner and sometimes director of the TV series Bajillions Dollar Properties, Kulap started considering having her own kids, and she felt like she had to discover her true original story in order to move forward. So she decided to do something radical to take control of her own narrative.She mounted a quest to uncover the truth, one that led her to travel back to Laos in search biological father she never knew, let alone knew existed, and find out the events and awakenings that would forever change her, her life, and her understanding of her parents, extended family and the choices they all made. The story is laid bare in Kulap’s original documentary Origin Story (https://amzn.to/2GqIrIi) and we dive into this decades-long experience in today’s conversation.You can find Kulap Vilaysack at:Website : http://www.originstorydoc.com/Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/iamkulap/-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, my guest today is Kulap Vilesak. So decades ago, Kulap's parents fled violence in Laos, finding themselves in a refugee camp in Thailand before moving to D.C. where Kulap would be born and then shortly after to Minnesota where she would grow up. But her world was blown apart when at the age of 14, in the heat of a fight, Kulap's mom revealed that her father was not in fact her biological dad. The trauma of that moment, it really shook her, but would then largely get buried, just sort of tucked away as she left home, built a career and got married. And now decades later, a successful writer, director, actor,

comedian, former co-host of the long-running Who charted podcast, where she sat behind the mic for eight years, and the creator and showrunner and sometimes director of the TV series, Bajillion Dollar Properties, Hulup started considering really having her own family and having kids. And she felt like she had to discover her true origin story in order to finally move forward. So she decided to do something radical, to take control of her own narrative. She mounted a quest to uncover the truth, one that led her to travel back to Laos in search of a biological father that she had never known, let alone never even knew existed until she was 14. And to find out the events, the moments, the experiences that led to her family being what it was.

And those awakenings would forever change her, her life, her understanding of her parents, extended family, and the choices they all made. And the story is offered in Kulop's original documentary, Origin Story. We dive into this decades-long experience in today's conversation. So excited to share it with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project.

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as video actually in 2012, transitioned to audio 2014-ish, but you were in the podcast space kind of like way before. Who charted what started around 2010. Is that right? Yes. Right? Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because we were the fourth Earwolf podcast. Right. And that was such an interesting time too, because that was around the time where everyone's like, oh, you know, Apple gave it their best shot, but this whole medium is dying

on the vine. And all of a sudden, a couple of years later, no, actually it's not. But in the early days, was it more of a passion thing for you? What was it actually for you? Because I know it's changed so much now. I remember when Scott Aukerman, who I am married to, he was like, hey, I want you to meet this guy, Jeff Ulrich. He has this idea to do like a podcast network. And I was like, what's that? And so they like pitched it to me and I was like, hmm, all right, if you want to do it. Like I had no understanding, no faith, no like, no like, yeah, you know. And then it became something huge.

And in the beginning, I came on to Who Charted because Howard Kramer came up with the idea and did a couple of pilots. And Scott thought that he needed someone to kind of help drive the show and push it forward. So he suggested me. And Howard and I knew each other from comedy circles and was already friendly. And we just, you know, he was my pod outlet for me that I didn't have before, something I could do weekly, something that was really fun and that really helped me find out who I am and what my voice was. And it became this really beautiful, intimate space for me because I learned how to be myself on the mic, which is, it was huge.

Yeah. I mean, that definitely takes time, but it sounds like it was more than learning to sort of find your voice on the mic, but it was more of, and not just a process of sort of like an expressive channel for you, but also a process of personal exploration to a certain extent. Even though it was like a very humorous and great and super fun podcast, it sounds like it was more than that for you. Like it was something that was almost like a necessary part of your practice.

And, you know, as we'll touch into shortly, you went through a lot during that season of your life also. Yeah. I mean, it's also, it was discipline. And as I've gotten older, like discipline is important. Like I used to be the person who was like, I don't need a calendar. I don't need to schedule things. And it's like, oh, well, things don't get done actually. If you don't do that, if you don't make time for things. And I used to be in the habit of not finishing things. And so to have that sort of

discipline, it really translated throughout my life. What was the biggest thing that you started but didn't finish? The biggest thing that I started but didn't finish well hmm it was my documentary for a while but then I finished that and I just don't know if there was anything bigger than that yeah um and in those times when it wasn't finished yet it weighed so heavily on me nothing compares let's let's let's drop into that a little bit you know as we here, you have this history in the world of podcasting, but also acting, comedy, writing, directing, group in Minnesota, but it sounds like bounced out to LA almost as soon as you could. I shot out of high school into downtown Los Angeles, not understanding what downtown Los Angeles was like. It wasn't

like downtown Minneapolis, which has a vibrant nightlife. And at that time, especially in 1998, the summer of LA, like after 5 p.m., ghost town. So a kid who grew up in the suburbs used to like wide open spaces, walking around as she chooses, found out real quickly that you couldn't do that in downtown LA prior to the Staples Center being open. Different time for sure. And even walking in LA, like people look at you, they're like, wait, that's why God made cars. Nobody walks in LA. It just doesn't happen. And I didn't have a car. So it was just, yeah, it was completely, it's just a totally different place. What was your intention in going out there? Because it seemed like you dropped into the world of comedy and acting and UCB really fast. Is that why you went? No, I went to go to the Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising. That's what brought me there. And I studied fashion merchandising, which is just the business of fashion. It's store management.

It's being a buyer for a retail shop. Okay. Knowing you as deeply as I do after like these seven minutes together, that sounds so not you. I know. I know. I know. But pretty soon, I started doing work study pretty quickly because I was out on my own. I was paying my own way. So I did a deep dive into the industry pretty quickly to quickly learn that I didn't want to do it. But my last retail job or my last job in the industry was being a sales rep for Ed Hardy before it was sold to the late Christian Audigier. So that was my leaping off point. And at that point, I had already started taking Second City classes. Got it.

And Second City led to UCB and here we are. So it was just kind of like tumbled into it and then tumbled a little bit more into it then a little bit more and it was like, huh, okay, this is my thing. Yeah. I mean, look, I grew up in Minnesota with refugee parents from Laos. There weren't models for a life in entertainment it wasn't something that was encouraged um i i came i wanted to get out of minnesota i wanted to be on my own and my options truly my 18 i guess at that point 17 year old mind was like well you like fashion uh and business i guess like it was as simple as that. And it was either going to be New York or California. And then I think for New York to go to Otis or

something like that, I needed to take one more test. And I was like, nah, I don't want to take another standardized test. I'm good. I'm done with that whole thing. I've moved on. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting also, because when you come to LA and so many people have that dream of, you know, like, I'm going to go to LA. I'm going to enter the capital T, capital B business. You know, I'm going to make it. And a lot of that is in the context of acting. You know, it's that side of things.

And in that world, it sounds like, it sounds like there's a certain mold. There are certain types that people are always looking for and certain types that are very often excluded. And my curiosity is whether the mold about molds gets broken to a certain extent when you're talking about comedy. Oh, interesting. Yeah, i think so but then there are different molds the yeah i know what you're saying because when i first started acting being typecast or pigeonholed as like you know the pretty asian girl would either be like third best friend or hooker or something similar, you know, or Hooters waitress, variation of that. And then with comedy, it breaks it up,

breaks it open a little more. And certainly in the improv world, it's's so DIY it's so like everyone's a multi-hyphenate and community is so built in so you get to really you get to learn together in the style of yes and and as you get to know each other you get to like do bits with each other. And then when there comes an opportunity to hire or recommend someone you know, it's a given because you've already had that experience in the improv trenches, basically. And in those times, the trenches, those are the most fun. So yeah, like I think, especially for the type of performer I am, it helped me kind of move forward in the acting world. Yeah. I mean, it feels like, it's so interesting to hear you say that because it does feel like I have a number of friends who've been in and out of the comedy world. I had the chance to, we've had a number of people from that world on the show over the years. And I've always wanted, because it seems to me like there is, there's almost like when you think about actors, part of it is about them hiding who they are so that they can step into a role. And then there's

a certain, and then people also want to believe a certain thing about who they are as individuals and the way they live their lives. There's the brand story. And then when you talk about people in the world of comedy, it's always, it's landed on me as being less about that. It feels like that has always been a space where it's like the more you let it out, the more people resonate with it. And the more there's this collective thing of, oh, so we're all in this together. Yeah. And that, by the way, it took a long time for me to understand that because for the longest time I felt like I was hiding who I was or because I just viewed myself as so problematic that I in some ways wasn't like I was like protecting people from me which is ridiculous and also very ego-driven. I mean, like that, you know, people can't handle or don't have choice when it comes to me. Or that, I guess, even more clear is that

I would be rejected if I was fully who I was. If I told you where I came from and how I felt about my background, that you would that I would be rejected. And growing up in Minnesota and desperately trying to assimilate that sort of habit, I took it with me to California. And so while I'm at UCB, I found myself erasing my own sort of culture because it was like head down, like I want to assimilate in this group now, you know, I need to wear chucks. I need to wear plaid shirts. I need to, you know, that's what I thought I needed. And the truth is I would have been so much like funnier and less in my in my head because you know the used to be

motto is don't think is if i would just let that stuff go you know if i had just like i think the funniest people are the ones that like don't have so many barriers like there's just so okay with making mistakes and it just took more time for me. For you, was it a gradual evolution or was there a moment? I think, I really think, to swing back to podcasting, I think that's when I really, because even when I was an actor and they would say things like they want the type. We want this to be sort of like a Kristen Schaal type or, you know, something like that. Right. And I, even though told over

and over again, like, no, like bring yourself to it in my mind, I would always go, oh, well, that's what they want. Let me try to do that. But then you end up doing sort of mimicry and I'm by no means an amazing, like, you know, I can't do impressions. So, but that right there is just, it's a bigger issue for me. I was like, okay, this is what people, like, I would view, like, this is what people want from me. Or this is how I will get people to like me or something like that instead of like just show up as authentically you and I think it really was podcasting because like I had tried out for Herald teams twice and just shit the bed truly shit the bed and I was so upset with myself because like all of my best

friends and my buddies were like on Herald teams. And I know it sounds so stupid because these are the house teams at UCB. But in that world, I was like, yeah, like everybody who I've, you know, look up to, they've been on like these great teams, these like notorious teams and I can't do it. And I felt so bad. And at the time, if I look back and take, go in a time machine and tell that younger self was like, oh, well, there's something that's, it's better for you. And what was better for me was podcasting. So interesting. And podcasting,

it was like, I was just coming for the first time. I'm just coming to everybody in the room as cool up. And, you know, at first you can relate to this. You and I are having a conversation. It's just me and you, but that, And it's intimate, but that experience of reaching other people the way I did and for those people to embrace me, like, whoa, that's like, that is like not really, I don't know. It's not quantifiable. Like it was just such a beautiful experience and it was very encouraging to me and it really pulled me forward. I love that. It's interesting you used the word problematic describing sort of like what you were keeping back. And I also, it made me wonder whether one of the other reasons maybe deeper down where you were like, I'm not going

to go there was because you had this thing that eventually becomes the source of a documentary. And there's this really deep story, which is completely unresolved, especially then, and deeply painful to you. And it's not just saying, well, it's not okay to share that with everyone else. That would mean I would have to deal with it myself and i'm not ready to go there yeah my documentary is about well the quick pitch is that it's called origin story and i get to a place and i got to a place where i finally wanted to examine where I come from because when I was 14, I found out my dad wasn't my real dad in this really awful way where my parents got in a fight and my mom started venting about my dad and I defended him. And she was like, why are you defending him? He's not your real dad.

And that was shocking for a 14-year-old to hear, especially a 14-year-old who has a fraught, fraught, fraught, fraught relationship with her mother. And so I buried it. I buried it. I put it away. And the documentary is 20 years later where I finally kind of, as you say, deal with it. Yeah. I mean, you get to – it sounds like the sort of inciting incident for the doc was you're further into your own life. You're married at the time and you're hitting a point

where you're like, huh, now I'm thinking about being a parent as well. But there's something in you that says, I'm really struggling with the idea of moving forward with that until I resolved this thing. Yeah, I mean, I got pregnant and I miscarried. And that was so horrible. And it really, really wrecked me. And my relationship with my mom had only gotten worse. I think at that time, my parents had finally sort of separated. But things were not good in that way.

And doing the documentary was like a form of nesting because I was like okay this didn't work out because I miscarried but I think motherhood is on its way so I think it's time for me to kind of figure this out and part of it was just like, oh, wow, my mom is being so awful. Maybe my father will be better. Like maybe that's what's missing. It's just like a man sized puzzle piece. And then maybe it'll make sense because like this relationship does not at all. Me and my mom, I should say. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you.

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Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever,

making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. So 20 years later, you go back into this. Because I know when you were 14 also, it sounds like there was a moment where you were kind of like, I need to know more.

Yeah. But that ended up being kind of like another, just like a piling on of the sense of rejection at that time. Yeah, because it was, as all things with my dear mother, things are so complicated. And I think in her, she realized she messed up when she told me the way she did. And then she tried to fix it by looking for my father, finding my father's family who lived like in Mountain Lake, so like an hour and a half from the Twin Cities where we lived, reached out to them in the hopes

of finding my father who at that time was in Laos. And that family, I spoke to them. They wanted to meet me. There were plans made. And then a month went by, nothing happened. And then what came to me, and of course never directly, but through like a family friend who also lives in Mountain Lake, was that my birth father didn't want his family to have anything to do with me for fear that I would want money. And so here I am being rejected by this man who I'm not, I don't, I got along with my stepdad. See, dad has never been the problem. I mean, he's got his issues, but it's truly my mom who that's, that's the, that's the that's the relationship right so my mom hurt me and then this guy he rejected me and now I will just this is not I can't handle I'm 14 this is not I can't and I

just put it away but yeah like that like man like that sense of like not being good enough, that was seeded before. And it sure, I mean, it took root. It took root when I was 14. Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine that such, it's such a formative age for anyone where you're really sort of like testing the waters and trying to figure out who you are. And yeah, I can imagine sort of moving through that, especially at that age, especially with who you are.

I mean, because you're, like you said, your parents were Lao immigrants, the refugees who came here, you know, under pretty extreme circumstances. You're in middle America, but also it sounds like in the early days, especially embraced by a really lovely family, host family who welcomed you in and was sort of in and out of your life for a window of time. And then to sort of like, just take all of that and say, I'm going to stuff it down and kind of pretend like it doesn't exist.

I mean, I can't imagine that it wasn't just there for the next two decades until it sort of like burst out just in some way, trying to find its way out in a million different ways and a problem with authority. I mean, if I didn't trust my parents before, I sure as heck didn't trust them after. And my mom, she had, I think it's past tense, a problem with gambling, like a real, real, real problem with gambling like a real real real problem with gambling and for my mom you know just love affection was expressed very transactionally so oh you did uh you did uh here's a computer i gave you this computer from my back blackjack weddings okay well you pissed me off i'm taking that computer away and but it's if it was just as simple as that but that's just giving you a basic example like she or or the other way she would express it would be food

like you know we don't say i'm sorry like these are not things that my mom ever said. So being just good enough was just not – I always felt like I had to offer something. I had to give something. I had to be a certain way. I had to not be me. I, you know, like there's just all these like messages that were either just outright, um, you know, where my mom had repeatedly as a child told me that she had found me in the garbage. Um, but like just, and that is pretty clear what she was trying to communicate. And then there were other subtle, like subtle lessons, uh, that made for, you know, an adult who needed to go to therapy. Which turns into comedy and podcasting, at least in part therapy, right?

Yes. So when you hit your mid thirties and you're like, okay, so it's time to sort of like step back into this and deal with it. And you decide that I need to figure out what the real story is here. And like, you sit down with the man who raised you as your father and you say like, what's the story? And then you actually sit down with your mom and say, okay, so what really happened here? Get some overlap and some differences there. Part of my curiosity is, and this becomes a documentary because then you actually find, you do a bunch of detective work. You find out

like who your biological dad is. He's back in the house and you decide to go and find him. When you're thinking all of this through, and this starts as something that you have to resolve personally, just because it's that time in your life where you need to figure this out. What's the decision process or what's the thought process in your mind that says, I also need to document this whole thing and I need to share it. This needs to become a documentary. And I'm curious whether those were two different decisions. Like first, let me just document it for my purposes or was it from day one that this is going to become something bigger it definitely wasn't well okay so because i don't trust my parents and i i in many ways did not trust myself um so now we have at least three unreliable narrators i felt that the camera was necessary to get the truth after my mom told me my dad wasn't for my real dad, she was like, don't you remember being in the courtroom and standing and pointing at your father?

Don't you remember your father? And I'm like, no, I don't remember that. And then my stepdad's like, that never happened. But what does that do to me? Like why did I block that out? What did I – am I making this too big of a deal? When you have a mom who – she's had a lot of trauma in her life, you know. She tends to reset a lot, get really mad, and then it shifts to like rage.

And then it shifts to, well, you would do the same thing if it was – if you were me, you would do the same thing. And just a lot of gaslighting. You think, well, hold on. What's real? What's true? So like I just – I didn't trust myself. I also truly never talked about it with my parents between 14 and 33 about so I I didn't know how I was gonna react and in the beginning I didn't put myself in camera I just

interviewed my dad and you can kind of see it in the film the the shots of me by the camera is my friend June Diane Raphael with her like iphone 4 grabbing that footage because it's so funny yeah so funny you mentioned that because i actually i i noticed that and i was like oh she's doing like a behind the camera interview where it's just and i was like huh it's an interesting choice i because that first trip and my dad was the first interview i'm like okay i think it's i want it to be a doc i let's see i don't know enough for me to to like two listeners of who try to talk about podcasting two listeners of who charted in minnesota because i live in california volunteered to shoot it for me because i didn't know how to do it.

I bought a camera and then they brought another camera and they shot it. They're strangers. And they came with me to my dad's house, set up the camera, put on the mics. I sat nestled between them as I was so scared to ask my dad these questions because I don't know if he's going to one want to talk. Well, he was willing to do it, but like he's soft spoken. Like I'm the only performer in my family. I had no idea how any of them would react. And he he needed to get it off his chest. He he needed to get it off his chest. He needed to.

And so him being so honest and so emotional, like I can't – a handful of times I've seen my dad cry. A handful of times in my old age. So I was like, whoa. Okay. So obviously this is something. this is something to keep going. And through the entire process, you know, I'd want to quit because I wanted to quit. I wanted to go to sleep. I wanted to, you know, but I would get pulled forward. Someone would want to help. Like when it would get to a point where like, well, I mean, but how am I actually going to go to Lowe's?

You know, like how is that actually going to work out? Like it would work out. Someone would offer a hand. Someone would volunteer this. And it's like, well, it'd be ridiculous if I didn't do it. And in terms of the sharing part, I just kept punting that. Kept punting that forward. Kept punting that forward.

And trust that I had so many breakdowns even prior to, you know, as we started submitting it to film festivals. And when the first screening happened, I was like, oh my goodness, like it is not in my culture to air dirty laundry, period. Like much, you know, in a conversation, much less a full length documentary. So just kept punting. I kept punting hunting. So yeah, I, I, I felt like it would keep me honest. And I felt like I there's part of me that was like, well, you won't believe me. You won't believe me, Jonathan, if I don't do this. Like sometimes when I would tell people, it's like my background and my story, I've always felt like maybe you yeah i wasn't taken seriously you know was there anything in there also that was was there a voice in there that was not just you

won't believe me but i won't believe me yeah oh absolutely again because i found myself so trustworthy it's like you know like one of the best things ever was when my therapist who I'd seen since I was like 28. And I started seeing him because I got engaged to Scott. It might have been 28 or 27. I think he got married when I was 28. I started seeing him when I was 27 because I got engaged and I called my parents separately. And when I called my dad, he was like, congrats. Your mother gambled away like truly in a breath.

And I was like, oh, huh. I think I need to start. I don't want to do this in my relationship. Like I this is I need to. OK, like time out. I need to start I don't want to do this in my relationship like I this is I need to okay like time out I need to start going therapy so cut two documentaries out my therapist watched it and one of the most gratifying things in this experience is like when he watched it he was like you were really honest about everybody how you described him for these like 10 years is pretty accurate to how they were in the documentary and that that made me feel so good you know like it was like okay I wasn't, I'm not trying to make them out to be worse than they really are. That meant a lot to me.

I mean, it's, it's not just saying, well, no, actually you are a reliable narrator of the documentary, but it's actually, no, you are a reliable narrator of your life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And as a viewer, you can't help but watch that and see how fraught your relationship is and see her energy when she's with you in a room. And then when you, I'm always curious about what brings people to the place where they are and shapes them and turns them into who they are in their lives. And when you sort of step back into the experiences, even though it doesn't change the behavior in the room in the moment, in the present time, I wonder sometimes whether, you know, simply knowing some of the really, really hard things that shape that person can make it even a heartbeat easier to access or like a little bit more space or compassion. Yeah. Because then you,

I took a long time in my rewiring through therapy to realize like I am not the cause of my mom's unhappiness and that it's not my fault that she's upset or depressed, right? So when we can get to a point where like when I got such freedom, when I know what her deck of cards is, what's in her hand, and realize like it's a lot of it isn't personal. And I can modify my reactions to her behavior, right? It doesn't have to, it doesn't have to go that deep because it's like, I realize it's not about me.

Man, when we realize that, that's a big wake up, I think for everybody. To get to a place where I can just like, kind of like laugh it off. Like that's the hard thing. Like because my mom tried to control my behavior so much. And so then I would try to control her behavior. And this is – that struggle.

I mean it was just me and her on this like Mobius strip, like this infinity loop. Just like, you know, you're just not gonna get anywhere and then when you just kind of like step off and just go oh i just don't have to i don't there i don't i don't have to keep these receipts anymore i don't have to like and when you see my mom and the fact that she does reset like she does, it's like, there's no, I'm not going to logic this, you know, like this is not, and I'm also asking for my mom to meet me where, where I'm at, which is completely and totally unfair. I stand on her shoulders from her sacrifices to have the upbringing and the education that I've had and have again gone to therapy for over a decade. That's not something – those aren't the tools that my mom has.

And so it's unfair for me to expect her to fight fair in that way. Now, some of her dirty behavior can, I'm not, I'm not washing that away. I'm not putting it under a carpet. I'm just saying like, I have to fight fair too. There's a moment where you and your sisters and her kind of sitting around in her house and cameras are rolling and you're talking pretty openly and you ask her you say something like mom why has it always been like this between us like why has there always been this tension this like angst between us and she looks at you and she says something like because you're me oh i know that scene which is a memory in my life by the way by the way, like that just I don't know if I would recommend it is the documentary was a catalyst to my growth.

It has helped me evolve as a human being. Understand that I had done therapy for a while before I did the documentary, I just sort of kind of hit a wall, right? Like a like to a point and that this broke me through but i don't know if i would advise it um it's not natural to have a couple angles camera angles of your memories and then to review it over and over and make edits it's it's it does something it's a bit of a, it screws, screws with you a little bit. I'm glad I did it. It was very therapeutic, but yes, that, that scene again, I'll call it a scene that is like, that is to me,

the movie, the, that, that moment cause it just totally encapsulated my relationship with my mom it also was like the most honest conversation we've ever had um and it just played out in a way that it did which and there were very little edits there where it it shifts uh just shifts on a dime were you surprised by how open the conversation was i don't know why i was because mom you know mom likes the attention don't know why i was worried about her pat you know she lights it up um she lights it up always has always has um yeah but i was i was surprised you end up going to to laos and actually finding your biological dad and meeting him spending a couple days traveling around the country with him. Almost a week. It was insane.

Yeah. And it's... It was going out of my mind. Well, I mean, there could be a million different reasons why you would say that. I was really wondering as you're... So in the film, it kind of makes it look like it's two or three days. But now if I know it's a week, I was so curious about what the script... And you shared some of the script that was running in your head the whole time, but I was curious if there was something more.

Yeah, there was something more. What couldn't I put in? Because it just got so, at a certain point, there was just like 50 ways you could go with the documentary. And I had to remove anything that would like kind of be confusing or like what but I was worried that he wouldn't show or that he wouldn't you know we could just go there and he him he would decide not to be there you know he early on in our first conversation asked me for something so you know I'm, I'm looking for him. And he was like, oh, he wanted to come to America. And so he was like, hey, could you ask your mom if she has our divorce papers? Again, though, I want you to understand this is the first we've spoken. I'm like, ah, well, I guess I'll check with her about that and of course she didn't have it

and what did he needed it for because he needed to prove that he divorced my mom because he's bringing his wife new wife he wants to bring them to America I don't know what it was all like so confusing but I went and got the paperwork for him and got, you know, notarized or whatever. And I was like, he'll want this, like no matter what he'll show up because he wants this. Like, I guess this is sort of spoilers. Well, that's not even in the movie.

Okay. Yeah, you're right. So then through all of this talk of him needing this divorce paperwork right the original ended up being with my half-sister in sacramento so it was with an ex-wife just not it was was his second ex-wife and when i first met my half sister in sacramento she had that paperwork which is like so kind of crazy and then there's just i mean there's just so the things like there's things like my mom my mom was trying to deter me from going and things that she said that was just so wild about like his character and like she was like basically like and who knows is this true it could be

with my mom everything is alleged with my mom this is like she is a very um uh she's yeah her her relationship with the truth is fluid like it's um and she was basically was like yeah he essentially allegedly was hooking his way through high school or college i don't know i don't know like i'm like okay you know like she and i'm like i'm not like anything like that i'm like i'm not putting that in the documentary. What is that? Who knows? And it doesn't matter.

But like, it's just all she then she had this come tell me about like, oh, yeah, like. There's this guy named Bill Holiday who worked for the CIA and your dad became friends with him. He's the reason why we got out of the camps. You know, it was because of Bill Holiday. He would like take us out of the camps and we would go swimming at like the bangkok hotel and then be and then he'd take us back to the camp and i'm like what is what like that's its own documentary like we're like who's bill holiday what's there like a lot a lot of editing a lot of a lot of editing, a lot of editing, so much editing. to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton.

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Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. I'm not going to do the spoiler of how the film ends um you're like you do meet him and there's you know it's stuff happens um there's one other scene that for some really weird reason stay with me I want to ask you about there's um I can't remember who it was, which parent it was, shared the story of how they actually escaped originally, but where they said they essentially waited on the shore of the Mekong River with an inner tube. And I guess, you know, your mom was on the inner tube and your dad swam across that to the other side where they could have easily been attacked, been shot, been in that thing and that was sort of like their break to freedom and eventually navigating to the u.s and then there's this there's a scene in the movie where kind of cruising down the mekong and there are like groups of people out there you know like paddle boarding and in kayaks and stuff like this and and i'm i'm just that is, that's the same river. Yeah. And in that scene, unfortunately, you can't see it because it was so far away. But there are an endangered species of freshwater dolphins, Irrawaddy dolphins.

And what breaks, you can sort of see like the water break in a distance and it's a pair of them. We couldn't get any closer because it was Cambodia. Like we couldn't cross the border. But yeah, like it was, it's wild to think. Yeah. What can change in 40 years? So when you eventually come back and you're kind of, it's not even like you're processing what just happened, but you literally have to now turn it into a movie.

So there's hours and hours and hours of editing and figuring out what's in, what's out. And like you shared, then it actually becomes this documentary. I mean, I lost my mind. I truly, because like, of course my mom had feelings. Like my mom had huge feelings. My parents, my dad was, my birth father was like, I named you. And she lost her, she was like, no, I did. And like, it's just, you know, and she was seeing pictures of he met her family.

Can you imagine if like, like just that situation? He met her family in Laos and like she's in America. They have an awful relationship. She was just losing her mind. She was so pissed. She was so angry. And then he's trying to reach out to me. And like, it's just, I, I just, it was too much.

It was so much. And my poor editor, the first cut I did was over two hours and it was so angry. It opened with me like essentially ambushing her in her bedroom, pulling out her CPAP machine because it was too loud and like yelling at her for buying a car and almost getting my sister evicted like it was so dark like it was just it because I was that's where I was I was just in a really I was yeah I was in a tough place and there was an attempt at editing and putting something together but I was struggling I was struggling through it. And then I pitched Bajillion Dollar Properties and it got sold. And we shot and produced four seasons. And so the documentary was put on pause during that time. That was about two years.

And then when Bajillion ended, I learned how to finish. I learned how to finish a bunch of episodes of a TV show. And so then I took what I learned to finish the documentary. So it wasn't just come home, edit this thing and put it out. It was an in and out years long process after that. Tip to tail, probably five years. So you mentioned Baj on Dollar Properties,

which ran on CISO for four seasons. Well, actually three. The fourth season came out on Pluto. Got it. The Nail in the Coffin of CISO happened right after we finished editing the fourth season and the third season had come out. Got it.

So the fourth season ended up on Pluto, premiered, but it's available now everywhere, iTunes, Amazon. And meanwhile, you're back in work. You're home. This is behind you. It's a couple of years. You're back. At that point, you're still on the podcast.

You're talking about it. They're asking you about it. You're processing this. And then you drop back into it. It sounds like when the doc eventually came out, the way that it shows up, you know, there's, I'm curious whether you felt any sense, maybe closure is the wrong word, but any sense of being able to sort of close the chapter of a certain story in your past and be able to sort of move forward with a little bit more lightness. so scared. The first screenings, we did one LA screening before it premiered in Bentonville. And then it just got, I was just, it was really, truly, I'm like, oh my God, how will this be received? How will this look? My family, the fact, what am i putting them through once i was like the la screening and then into

bentonville arkansas uh for its premiere after like just how it was received it just it shifted because kind of it stopped being about me so from about Bentonville and especially going, I went to San Francisco next to Cam Fest. After the movie, I would say hi to people. And so many, truly after every screening, there would be multiple people talking to me about their experience and how they related to it. And it would often be me holding people as they cried and so I think almost like a song it wasn't mine anymore so yeah that that festival run

especially just because I was at the screenings and I could be with the audience and I could be with them after. Like, yeah, it shifted. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like from the work that you've done the last couple of years also that there's like a whole bunch of new energy moving forward in different projects and also to different ways. I mean, I know you founded Los Angeles, which. Los Angeles is a great pun. And we start there. Right.

Which is really, you know, and you're sort of expanding your lens out. You end up having a comic book character created after you. That happened prior. Okay. So that was before. Yeah. Which it made me think i should figure because uh gail simone who's this amazing comic book artist she she surprised me when they rebooted uh the a villain in Batgirl, like a henchman for the big bad.

And then she decided, she did a spin on, well, she did a brand new title called The Movement. And then that character became sort of a good guy in a vigilante group. And her name is Catharsis, Kulap Vilaysak Catharsis. So she asked me, when I moved to The Movement, she was like, Hey, could you share a little background? And so I helped develop that Kulap Vilaysak's origin story when I didn't really even know my own.

And so first of all, super cool. Right. I'm just, I'm just thinking of like how cool it is to to say well yeah you know like i have like a comic book character named you know basically who's me i mean i like i'm in the dc canon like you know i probably am like the last like person that dc's gonna do that with there's a lot of paperwork i had to sign so it's really cool. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. That would be like I would want that somewhere in my bio or something. I could actually probably lead with that and just have everything else footnoted.

And just be silent. Right. It's like, oh, and by the way, a couple of other things too. Just whatever. But you kind of drop back into your life and you're, I mean, nothing really stopped, you know, but this was kind of running as a script in the background. And I'm always wondering when they're, because you are somebody who's fiercely creative, who is constantly making new things and interacting and building stuff. And I know as somebody who's

wired a bit similarly, I'm a maker. I wake up in the morning and I'm like, what can I make? That when there is something weighing on me, that it's, I feel like it stifles my capacity to actually do the thing I'm here to do. Not entirely, but like it blunts it just enough so that I'm like, not quite. And I'm wondering whether when you sort of like start to move through this, whether anything opens up in you that's like, huh, like I just I have more right now to like show up and do these things. it's interesting I so relate to you what you're saying because I find myself somewhat there again in a way so in the period between documentary and and now there was there was I think a great I started really devoting and building communities So you mentioned Los Angeles. That's, you know, there really wasn't a allow community or center in LA prior to me growing it from five people

on a Facebook group to 270. And then, you know, working with A+, which is the AAPI spoke of Time's Up, having community with other Asian American women in entertainment. So I was building this community, which is great and trying to develop new ideas. And then cut to 2019, the thing that you're talking about. I'm really trying to quantify it right now with the help of therapy,

what you're describing. Yes, where if there's something weighing on you it muddles purpose a little bit it feels like there's more obstacles and for me it really has been that i am essentially undiagnosed infertile. And since the beginning of the doc, I have my first miscarriage. I'm on the other side of having six total. And I just have really been thinking about how that's affected me and how, yeah, and it has. It absolutely has. And how sometimes I feel like my work and my – I feel like you're going to relate to this. My work, I like work. It's work, purpose. I am a tourist. I'm working in the fields. I like it there. I'm happy to be there, a beast of burden. Like this I like. I like this. And with this, this has been hanging over me. I've been having to like bring – like it's okay. The next one, I've been having to bring myself up while, you know, being – shooting myself up with like hormones and the euphoria of pregnancy and the not only the mental

like crash but like the physical crash of like you know h h my hcg levels going down and just all it's it has and it has made me feel like yeah like certain projects have like oh I've got this great I'm pitching this great like this great project like oh this is gonna be for sure like I'm selling it people are loving it and I you know that didn't work out and like it feels like oh this reminds me of something like, you know, like this feeling of infertility, undiagnosed infertility, you know, like it's so it's so I'm and in this time of quarantine and pandemic, as I sit here, you know, I do have my husband and I'm grateful for that. But like, you know, a lot of time for myself to sit with myself and I'm thinking like, whoa, like I.

OK, like this, this needs to be recognized. We can't also bury this. I will not do another documentary, sir. There shall not be another. I cannot do that again. We're going to have to process things in a different way on the other side of 40. Like I turned 40 during quarantine. So like there's all these things that I'm like thinking about and contending with and trying to readjust priorities and like name things that I need. Like I know that I need collaboration. I like a crowded table. I like to be an individual that works together with a team to make something greater than. And just sitting and writing alone, I can do to a certain point before I start to just turn on myself. And so we're learning about ourselves during this time. Yeah. I mean, but also dealing with everything that you've been dealing with and undiagnosed, infertile, to the extent that you feel like that is sort of like an essential

part of your being right now. And then also knowing that we're sort of in this really bizarre time. And also knowing that for you, part of what makes you feel alive is bringing things to life, ideas, bringing visions, bringing creative work to life also. And knowing that you love to be around people as part of that, you know, like not as a solitary act. It's challenging. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. It's like, you know, part of my brain always goes to the, well, what's this overlining? What's the solution? And then part of it is like, well, sometimes there are just hard times where the work is,

let me wake up and sort of move through each day and make it as constructive as I can, knowing that I'm going to have some good ones, I'm going to have some bad ones. But over time, like, what can I do to keep stepping back into a place of possibility to the extent that I can access that on any given day? And it seems like you're, at least on the professional side, some of that bandwidth is available. I mean, your new podcast, this is like you're bringing something pretty substantial to the world right now. Where does that drop?

Like where does that come into everything? That, and I think I met like, did seven years with Who Charted, that was such a beautiful experience. It came to an end for me, Howard and I are still so close. Like that's my pot husband for life. But I miss that, especially during this time, these last seven months, that discipline that I was talking about before, that interaction, that camaraderie, that output. Like I am somebody like theories are so great. Oh,

yes. I love to think, but I need, as a person, I need to feel like there's output, like there, that I've accomplished something. And that has been some, somewhat of a struggle. And, you know, as a writer, sometimes things, you know, sometimes things don't get produced and like there's nothing to show for it. I need like me as a person needs something to show for it. And at least in one quadrant of my life, like one part. this podcast, enter this podcast, which is going to be on the Lemonada Network. It's called Add to Cart. I'm co-hosting it with Suchan Pak of MTV fame and who's been, who's an amazing journalist, has been an amazing journalist throughout her career and a producer and a super funny person. We're dropping our first episode November 17th. And I have, you know, just yesterday received my kit. I do not know how to use it. There are elements. Just details. I got this ring light that's in front of me right now so I'm like feel like halfway there but you know I I'm stepping back into it because I think I I need it sir I need it yeah I mean for my soul because that's what it's

I mean yes you're you're amazing on the mic you're amazing on the screen you're amazing when you're writing like what you put into the world is awesome and it lifts people up. And at the same time, the same way that you shared, that weekly practice of getting behind a mic on Who Charted for eight years really helps you when you're moving through something challenging. It sounds like it may also serve this completely internal know, completely internal, you know, purpose for you of just being able to step back into that and know that you've got this thing that is being generative. And there's also something there's, while the reach of a podcast can be huge, there's something,

there's something so intimate and a high level of control over what actually happens that I feel like can make it that much more nourishing just for the person who is in the creative seed. Yeah. And then just feeling somewhat stagnant there, that there can be like a flow, like you're right, that, that it will help. I just, I think, you know, as I talk about quadrant stuff, everything all comes from the same place, you know, and if I can get some flow that it'll help flow other less resistance from me but it just is like yeah we keep moving steps forward and like we were having so much fun and i i think in my growth and because of my experience with howard like one thing that I know, regardless of like success, that I know how to be a good partner. I know how to be, well, also Scott helps with this, by the way. I should give it up for

like 22 years with Scott. Right. My pod husband. Oh yeah. And my husband too. You know, just on the side. Right. You can please call me out. You need to call me out because sometimes i am unaware right okay yes scott ackerman 22 years um been with him since i'm 19 uh 40 40 this year but i i know how through through failure know how to be a good, like through failure and through age, I know how to be a good partner. And I just know that Suchin and I are just going to have a really good time. And I want to have that good time every week. Is that so wrong? Nothing wrong with that, which it feels like a good place for us to come full circle as well, because we're hanging out here in this container of the good life project. So

if I offer up the phrase to live a good life what comes up that crowded table i miss my friends i want to i i love to host i love to like feed people and feed them with literal food and pour them wine, but also like with just laughter. And that same table is a writer's table too. You know, like it's let's work on something together. And that's to me, it's Christmas. It's Thanksgiving. It's like that's – it's people.

It's the people I love. It's laughing until you cry and crying until you laugh thank you thank you so much for listening and thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible you can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at sparkotype.com. That's S-P-A-R-K-E-T-Y-P-E.com. Or just click the link in the show notes.

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