Good Life Project - Latham Thomas: On Birth, Surrender, Wisdom and Ease

Episode Date: June 5, 2017

Guest: Latham Thomas is a wellness & birth coach/doula and founder of maternity brand, Mama Glow, as well as the author of Mama Glow: A Hip Guide to Your Fabulous Abundant Pregnancy. She’s on a mission to transform maternal wellness.Latham's practice provides support to pre/postnatal women along their journey to motherhood offering culinary and nutritional services, yoga, and birth coaching services.Latham has become the go-to-guru for modern, holistic living for women during pregnancy and beyond! She also serves as the Maternity Wellness expert on the Advisory Board of Yahoo! Health and has been featured on The Dr. Oz Show, Good Day NY, CBS News, Fast Company, Black Enterprise, Essence, Fit Pregnancy and so much more.Her forthcoming book, Own Your Glow: A Soulful Guide to Luminous Living and Crowning the Queen Within is available for pre-order now.Rockstar sponsors:Get paid online, on-time with Freshbooks! Today's show is supported by FreshBooks, cloud accounting software that makes it insanely easy for freelancers and professionals to get paid online, track expenses and do more of what you love. Get your 1-month free trial, no credit card required, at FreshBooks.com/goodlife (enter The Good Life Project in the “How Did You Hear About Us?” section).90-Day Year - Free online masterclass series on achieving your one-year vision in 90-days. https://goo.gl/Bc9e9sFor show note links go to: goodlifeproject.com/lathamPhoto credit: Jessica Morrisey Photography Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm constantly trying to protect the space that a woman is in so that she can get into her inner animal and be able to do what she doesn't actually have to know what to do because it'll turn on for her and she'll be able to do it if she can get out of trying to control everything so really it goes back to this idea of not trying to control, but the control is really in the surrender. You actually have a full control of a process, if you think about it in this way, where it will unfold almost like textbook style if you just sit in the back seat and let your brain, your body do all the work. This week's guest, Latham Thomas, is a wellness and birth coach and doula and founder of maternity brand Mama Glow. She's also the author of a book by the same name,

and she's pretty much on a mission to transform maternal wellness. Her practice provides support to women along the journey to motherhood from culinary services, nutrition, yoga, birth, coaching. She's kind of become the go-to guru for modern holistic living for women during pregnancy. And she serves as the maternity wellness expert on the advisory board at Yahoo Health, has been featured on Dr. Oz, Good Day New York, CBS News, Fast Company, Black Enterprise, Essence, Fit Pregnancy, and so much more. And I have actually known Latham for many, many, many years. We have our own backstory together. and focus not just on what she's up to today, but her really unusual background and training and exposure to the world of plants

and plants as medicine at a very early age and not in a location that you would have thought it would have been sort of an organic thing to explore. Really excited to share this conversation. I'm Jonathan Fields. This is Good Life Project. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk.

The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy

jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. So, she took the kids across country and rolled them into school and just had this life, like, in California. She drove by herself across country and rolled them into school and just had this life like in California. She drove by herself across country with her three kids and then was like, I'm moving to Cali and did it.

And then so all of us were then born in California. Have you ever talked to her about that journey or to your mom? I did. You know, I talked to my grandmother because she really is great about telling stories as is my grandfather and she is just such a um she's one of those people even now in her 80s that like she'll fly to new york won't even see her she'll like shower change be on the subway run around so for her it was more when she tells a story she tells it like it was an adventure but it was almost also one where she had something to prove, you know? Yeah. And she actually did well.

Like she was established once she got here, found a place to work, put the kids in school, like was really committed to this new life. But she's always been like that, like very, like could do anything. She would make her own clothing with sewing machines. She cooked really well. So she always had this know-how, which I think that she definitely passed down to the generations. Yeah, I'm thinking I see shades of that in you, like big time. It's like, yeah.

Do you feel that also? Yeah, I think that just there was something about the way that we gathered that allowed the younger generations to almost through like osmosis connect with some of that ancestral energy so we'd be in the kitchen and watching her cook and not necessarily completely taking note of what was happening but then knowing how to cook later. So she has this thing where we could all, a bunch of us have this, like we go into a restaurant, taste something and be like, okay, I'm gonna make that when I go home. And we can just do it. Like we just know how to, I don't know, like, it's a little bit of this plus that and figure it out. So my grandmother has

that. My mom has that. I have that. But it was really like being in the kitchen, sitting on the counter, listening to adult conversation, watching how they sort of moved and use food as medicine and food is nurturing and connective for family, that I kind of started to have the rudiments of what would become like a real interest in nutrition and health and how that sort of would frame our context for well-being as well as for, you know, like looking at like the larger public health landscape. Right. So that definitely started in the kitchen. Yeah. I mean, I love also that.

And I think this has become so rare these days. I'm curious what you think about this, the fact that you have three generations who are kind of like right there. Yeah. Not necessarily living in the same house, but sort of like, you know, everyone stays close. Yeah. And I think we're really moving away from that, you know. Yeah. And I wonder what we're losing from that.

Because it's, like you said, it's not the, hey, let's make an appointment and go have lunch. It's just kind of like the just always being around, the daily sort of osmosis that happens. Yeah, I really feel like we're losing a lot of that these days. We are. And I think that there's like a sort of antisocial social culture that is emerging that is more like this whole idea of like forced self-reliance of like um you know this independence that's awkward like these things that like we're trying to like fit into these boxes like as behaviors that are just like anti-biological like it's like we're supposed to like depend on people we're supposed to like share with people i mean we convened and gathered because our lives depended upon it because like

if you were by yourself you would get eaten by a mammoth or something so it's like you're not meant to be like by yourself in isolation and i think that when we're even if you know like sometimes i don't want to go home and be like, oh, God, I have to be immersed with like so many relatives at once that I haven't seen and tell the same stories about what's going on in my life. But then when I get there, I'm like, oh, I'm so happy. And I'm like, well, why is that that like we get even a little bit nervous about just gathering. It's because I think like we're in these cities where we're super independent, super focused on like achieving goals or whatever it is where we're focused on. And then when it comes to like connecting, we're really, it's really on our terms. And it's really like, limited to like text messaging, voicemail, like whatever it is, not even voicemail, really

hardly we hear people's voices right? barely anymore barely it's all so much is turning to text I think we lose so much I mean people are hearing your voice right now

but like how many voices do they really probably hear throughout the day? let's zoom back into you though you came up in Oakland

having this sort of bucolic nature based education in Oakland, California which which is pretty awesome. At some point, you headed to Brazil, right? I went to Brazil when I was like 18.

What made that happen? What was that about? Well, I was studying capoeira at the time and was really fascinated, again, with like, what's the landscape like there? What are the plants like there? What's the landscape like there what are the plants like there with the people like there and i spent i guess like some summer time and then holidays and then um i was in college i spent a year over there no nearly a year abroad because it was like um part of my junior semester and then i guess like the summer and then came back. So this was like you went to Columbia? I did go to Columbia.

So that was a part of like. Yeah, part of getting away. I did that too, which was awesome. Went to Cuba right before I did the Brazil trip as well. And similar thing like kind of doing murals and like plant stuff and looking at how they grew you know their their food there also how they ran their medical system and medicinal plants and stuff in Cuba but yeah like I was always like usually it's like the plant thing and like people and that intersection would always bring me to places and I love hot weather so and beaches so it's like it's like plants

medicine people beaches sun boom like done where's like here's my passport number um so that kind of was the impetus for that and and culture really because I was into the mixed martial arts and and capoeira and so that was really awesome dancing. And so that was great. But before that, I was in Colorado, I went to boarding school in Colorado Springs. And that was interesting, because I was I mean, our kids are the age that I was in high school, like alone as a kid as a transplant from California, living in Colorado. Was that your did you want to go? Or was it just like, this is a thing you're doing? No, it was.

So my mom had always had this like vision of like, you know, you need to expand your horizons. Like she was always one of these people who, as much as she likes, as much as she's like a control freak, she also had this idea that the way for us to grow was to like be in these spaces where there was like, like that, that the container was big enough for us to grow. So she felt like, um, in California that the schools available to us, even though there was like, there was a path that everyone went to like, you know, Catholic school or private school. And then there was like these very, um, well, um, respected Catholic high schools that people went to. And your path was then to go to a local college. And so she was like, that's not like your path. And she was just really convinced.

And I didn't see that. I was like, no, I want to go where everybody else is going. All my friends are going here. She's like, no. So I applied to this school, this independent boarding school in Colorado Springs, which my mom's idea was to join this organization called A Better Chance. It's still around. It's across the country. They have basically a network of independent day schools and boarding schools where they take children of color.

And I think that's mainly their thing is like to help you find, you make an application, they help you find the right fit for you, whether it's a day school or boarding school. So I wasn't currently enrolled in their program, but I was getting like, you know, mail. And so we had this postcard that came like, oh, there's a school and they're doing this merit scholarship exam for kids in Northern California. Mom's's like you're taking the test i was like what i was like i'm not going to colorado you're going you're going to take the test so i do the test then uh she's

like you should go to see the school so my dad and i go i go with uh chuck taylor Converse canvas shoes in the snow. And I get off the plane. That's not a good match. Right? I don't even have, like, I think, you know, the times I went to snow was like in Tahoe. Like, I don't have clothes for the snow. So I was like, Dad, it's freezing. It was probably like, you know, 55 or 40 something,

but not like freezing, but I'm freezing, of course. So we go. I have a fantastic time i get back and my mom's like how come you didn't tell me you're one of the finalists i was like i didn't know they didn't say anything to me then we get a call that i'm the merit scholarship recipient and that my mom would basically be able to send me for four years just paying like my books and my travel like to and from school. And so she was like, you're going. And I was like, you know what?

I loved it there. I want to go. So it was more just like at first it was her idea. And I bought into the idea once I actually got to see the place. And I felt really comfortable. It was like a family. I mean, again, I was 14. But it was amazing. And I did a lot of things outdoors that I could never do in California. I had so much access to nature, even just like on the prairie where the school was located. There was cows and there was horses. I rode horses. I did ice climbing, I did bouldering, mountain climbing,

I skied terribly. I did like everything you could possibly do outside. And I loved that. And I love her for pushing me in that direction, because I wouldn't have chosen that for myself. And I think it's so important for us to have people in our lives that can like see things that we can't yet see for ourselves, and believe in what we can't see. Because then when we sort of step into that leadership aspect of our own lives, then we start to frame ideas and ideology and concepts that people buy into that they can't yet see that we then put into action when we get people behind us. And so she was probably one of the first people to really, as a mother should be, to really, I think, solidify for me that these kind of things are really possible if you just believe in somebody, if you just lift them a little bit.

And she's also sort of like validating being uncomfortable as it's like, hey, listen, you may not, this may make you nervous. This is maybe totally different. And you're doing it. And you're going. Yeah. And which I think is such a, it's a, I think as parents so often we're like, our primary concern is safety. And, and that sometimes I wonder if that makes us create almost not give our kids room to go out there and do things where they may fail, they may feel pain, and because we don't want them to feel it. Right. I think as a parent to do that and say, look, you, this may

not be fun for you. This may be really uncomfortable. And it may not work in the end, but you're doing it. Or really encouraging that, you know, that's what a great thing to model at a young age for your mom to you. And I think that I really feel like that's part of what we, like when you experience that, either through parents or like pushing that, or you figuring out in your own life, and then when you turn around and become a parent, you can remember that. I mean, I know I catch myself all the time. I'm like, okay, it's just breathe and let her do what she needs to do in the world. And it may work and it may not work.

And it may bring joy. It may bring pain. But it's going to be an experience that somehow, you know, like informs growth in some way. And I think we hold ourselves back from that. And I think we hold sometimes as parents hold our kids back from that because of our own stuff. Totally. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.

Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot.

Flight risk. So that sounds like an incredible experience. And then you end up moving on, going to Columbia and then spending some time in Brazil. And the whole time there's like this. And it's funny because I didn't know this about you. There's the thread between nature and plants and sort of healing. It's been there since you were a kid, and you just kept, like, bouncing around and experiencing it in different ways. Yeah.

What did you actually study in Columbia? Visual arts and environmental science. So it was, like, not an art school, but I definitely— Yeah, I'm thinking, like, that Columbia's an interesting place to go for that. No, for their graduate school um you know arts are a huge deal so i did have access to like really great studios and amazing faculty but environmental science as well it's like this is not a school that's located like in the best place to be studying you know plant systems right so um but it worked and you know i did a lot with uh there was an organization that

we pulled together called urban roots and we brought the outdoors indoors for kids and then took them out in nature and it was like weird now that i think about it like we had vans and we were driving kids upstate i don't drive but there was other like college kids driving kids i was like man like we did a lot of stuff that like now would never have been done or sketchy yeah you know we're taking these kids someplace like with no permission slips and stuff but it was awesome and from there it was like working with the Brooklyn Center for the urban environment and the Audubon Center writing, you know, curriculum and stuff for early childhood education because I was, like, very keen on making sure that kids had this, like,

sense of wonder when it came to the environment and also sort of in the beginning foster this sense of um heart connection with like whatever is outside of us then we don't protect it so um i feel that when people allow their dog to like you know poop on medicine and not pick it up or um you know because i see like medicine everywhere when i walk down the street, like weeds are really medicine. Anything that could grow through concrete, imagine what it could do to heal your body, right? So like most weeds like have medicinal property. I see like, you know, kids littering or just adults even doing that. It's like, wow, like we're in a place where people have like no idea because they're just seeing concrete they're not even seeing these plants that are like struggling to live or

you know they're not exposed they don't know what these things could do for us so I feel like if kids learn really early how something grows you know the life cycles if they understand like the importance of like all the living creatures microorganisms and like the beautiful things that we get to see which we don't see enough of like butterflies and things like that they can understand then i think they have this connection where it's like no we cannot let this happen we have to protect we have to and do all the little things that they can like tiny right actions daily and then also influence their parents and communities so that was sort of like what the idea was behind writing the curriculum was really to get kids

to you know develop these habits on an early earlier on yeah what um when you got out of school what did you want to do like where do you where do you go with that? So this is what's really funny. So after I got out of school, it was like I was only, I don't know, like a year, not even like really a year out of school. And I had met my son's father and we were going to connect on something art related. And then and I ended up becoming pregnant with my son really early in the relationship. We were still getting to know each other. We knew each other as like friends and stuff, but like not romantically. And so at the time, I was still working like more on a consultant basis with the Brooklyn Center for the Urban Environment and teaching early childhood education and bringing the

outdoors indoors and working in like the city parks bringing like school groups what was interesting though was uh that i look back when people were like well when did that thing start with you around women women's health and babies and birth um when i was young my aunt my mom and my great aunt were all pregnant at the same time, all of them at the same time. And they had babies March, April, May, like back to back. And so I was surrounded by these women who are just like larger than life. I'm like four years old, and I'm just seeing big bellies and hearing conversation. And I just remember them saying really positive things. I remember my mom showing me a cartoon called My Mom's Having a Baby.

I still remember the jingle from it. And I remember her really speaking about everything like anatomically and the baby's in my uterus. It's going to come out of my vagina. This is what's going to go down. And I would tell people at the grocery store, like, I'm having a baby sister and she's going to come out of my mom's vagina. And she's in my mom's uterus. And people were like, OK. She just talked about it in such a normal way it wasn't like this weird thing and storks weren't carrying the babies it was like this is what it is this is what my body does this

is what our bodies do and so my cousin and i who was she was i mean 19 months older so she was like five five and a half and we were watching this. So our dramatic play, outside of being out, you know, out with, you know, in the foothills and stuff, our dramatic play was now sort of governed by this experience of everyone being pregnant. So we put our Cabbage Patch dolls and we would roll them up under our shirts. And then we would take turns delivering each other's babies. And so I remember that. And I reminded her a few months ago. I was like, do you remember when we used to do that?

She's like, oh, my God, yeah, I remember that. But my mom was the one who reminded me, too. She was like, you know, you used to always be like this. You used to always be into the plants and then the babies. And I was like, oh, oh my god you're right so that was like really the rudiments I think of mama glow I think it was like ignited at a very early age and so the baby thing was one thing I think the plant systems and like life cycles all of it just folded into one and for me it was not not none of it was

different than the other, like the life cycles, I was studying plants and plant systems, I just like overlaid that onto the human body. And I was like, Okay, well, it's just going to unfold, like, I don't have to do anything, it's just going to, it's just going to unfold on its own. And so I kind of applied the principles from what I noticed plants do, they just sort of yield. And there's grace, and there's no like fighting, there's no like, I'm not going to bloom. You know, I'm not gonna, it's like, I'm not going to shed my leaves, like there's not this, it's just like, okay, it's time. And every phase has its time. And there's no resistance in time in the timing and in the timeline or this sense of

like not getting enough of something or i don't have my shine or there's no ego it's just like i'm a flower and this is what i do now it's time to fruit and this is what i do right now it's time to eat you know you know and and then be processed through someone's body. So I don't know. I think I just was very attuned to that. Yeah. I love that concept of just almost finding flow within that and having no resistances timeline. At the same time, this wasn't part of your plan.

Yeah. Just in the time of your life. No. And you the time of, just in the time of your life. No. And you're somebody who's fiercely bright, fiercely driven, and out there to do big things. So I'm curious just sort of how emotionally in the context of your life you process, huh, like, where do I go from here? What do I, like, how is this going to affect the way that I build my life? Yeah. Well, it's interesting because my son's father was like 10 years older. So he was

definitely at the time in his life where he was ready to have a family. And when we came together, it was like, for me, I was still in like this really young budding, like figuring out the world phase of my life. And so I was not looking to have a baby. But it was like, you know, I always say there's something there's a difference between like unplanned and unwanted, right. And so it was definitely unplanned. Like there wasn't any real thought about like, here's how we're going to do this. And this is what's going to be and this is, you know, how we want to do it. It was like, this is happening now as a result of actions that we've taken. And so now it's like, like you said, how do we build around it? And so for me, it was like always, it was never an issue of like whether or not I would have a child.

It was, I did think that I would have a child young. I didn't think I would have a child as young as 23. But I knew that I would be like growing in some ways with my child. So I figured like I would have a child before 30. I just didn't know when. And so I was like, okay, this is what's happening. I would talk to the baby a lot. And I remember being like, you know, I don't know that I'm ready.

But if you feel that I'm ready, then we're just going to do this, you know. And so I said, I'm trying to ready myself. And I just tell them every day, I'm trying to ready myself. So thank God it's 40 weeks that I get to figure this out. And I was just doing all this stuff to like, you know, enrich myself and enjoy the time. There was no plan for how to fit into I just was like, I'll just figure it out. And I think that as I thought about it, I didn't know what the possibilities would be like how it would unfold. We did discuss that I would stay with the baby and he would sort of be the person that would go out and work.

And I was completely fine with that because I really felt like the type of mother I wanted to be was super hands on. And I wanted to be in total connection with the baby like as much as possible. So I did that when he was born. And I was so grateful for that. And I think like, I mean, literally, when I look back on it, it was like winging it. It's just like winging it. You just figure it out, I guess, you know? I think that's the way it is for everyone, right? Yeah. There's no real, as much as you can read as much as you want,

but at the end of the day it's like, nah, you just got to live it. Yeah. It's like signing up for a course like midterm and then playing catch up. Like that's, I mean, you're literally just like trying to figure your way through. And you, but I think at a certain point you get a handle on it. And I think really the blessing of having that time to grow with the pregnancy in in spirit I mean obviously in flesh you're growing but in spirit you catch up to where um where you're meant to be and and sort of like internalizing the process and being able to show up in the way you're meant to as a mother and a lot of things come up for you emotionally which are meant to um be dealt with before you become somebody's mom. I think that all

of that is just such a gift. And so a lot of what I talk about with moms now is like, you know, to help them map it before if they have the privilege of planning it. But if it's not that you just find out and it's like, okay, great. Like, then there's all kinds of ways that we can approach this in a mindful way and in a in a holistic way or just even in a way that like it's not happening to us, but it's happening through us. You know what I mean? That we're like more in control by like surrendering and like letting it be what it's supposed to be. And I think that we have the opposite way of like moving through life and pregnancy, really, it's like forces you to be a different way. And so you have to kind of almost like, part of you dissolves, because you're becoming something that you weren't before. And then you emerge from that experience. On the other side, you cross this threshold, and you have something that you didn't have when you started and you're somebody completely new and there's this like total

dissolve of the ego and you become you have to either struggle with that or you just right away it's like oh cool here i am but sometimes you have to find your feet and i think that which we don't talk about in our culture like that that like reemergence of like, who am I now? And like this and where am I and how do I like now find my way back? And where is back? Like, where am I trying to find my way back to? I think that that's really not discussed in our culture as much as it should be with like helping people find their way like families but particularly moms like finding their way once the baby arrives and so I felt really fortunate in that

we had planned towards me having space and not feeling pressure to go back to work not feeling pressure to birth a certain way like I had a natural birth and it was in the place that I wanted in this birth center and it was seven blocks from where we lived. And I birthed with the midwife that I wanted. And it was amazing. But it was like, it was so like everything was really on my terms, right? Like it was very calm. And it was great to have my mom come to town and help.

And just like those things like you talked about before, like having people step in and like, like swaddle you with that love that you need right after you do something that's like, terrifying, or that's like exhilarating. And then just like, holding you close, you know, and you're like, Okay, yeah, cool. Like, okay, everywhere I look, I'm like safe, right? I think we need those things. We need to create spaces like that for people, whether it's having a baby, whether it's like, you are going to write a book or a screenplay or launch a new business. Like, people feel like they're in these silos. They're like by themselves, like doing these things that are really like terrifying or really challenging or take so much of their energy and make them so vulnerable. And then

they're meant to then go out in the world and act like everything's okay when they're like putting so much of their soul into something and they don't have anybody to lean upon. And I think it goes back to what you said about just what are we losing when we don't have community, whether it's like family or family that you've created nearby. I think that in life transition, we really need that. And that's why I hope that like for our children, that one of the things that we can instill in them is like that relationships, healthy relationships, and this sense of like emotional intelligence is really like well rooted in them when they go out and start their own families. The thing that really resonates with me is this idea, and I so agree with you, that we all have these moments of intense transition and birthing.

You know, and it may be a child. It may be the next season of your life. It may be just change which drops into your life which is not really wanted. There may be disease. It may be, you know, these profound changes. And it's sort of like culturally, you know, we're kind of taught to buck up, you know, like soldier on and keep doing everything that you're doing, you know, and distract yourself as much as possible from this.

And whether it's good or whether this thing holds positive potential or negative potential or very often, it's always a blend. You know, we're kind of, we never create the space to actually just say, okay, I'm in a season. It may last a week. It may last 40 weeks. It may last a couple of years. This may be a season of my life that takes a while. What would it look like to just be with that, to make that the center of everything and allow other things to take second or third or fourth and then really just kind of be let that let that you know like um define whatever amount of your day in your

life it needs to define for the moment that it needs to find it like what would it what would it be like and i don't think we ask the question that say if i allow that to happen how might i reconstruct the way that i approach each day right now the way that i live my life um in order to to support that um to bring people and experiences into my life that would allow me sort support that. And I wonder, because this is so much of what you now do professionally, like you support. I wonder how much of that is just that we don't believe it's possible. So I guess maybe that's my question for you, because you are the person who's like,

you've built your life around helping women do this largely and be there for them and help them navigate these questions. What's your sense of that, like of a willingness to go there? And to the extent that we don't allow ourselves to go there, what do you think is stopping us? That's such a beautiful question. And I love the way you just pulled all of that together. I think the approach that I take, and I feel like we are very similar in this, like for in parenting and life, and is that it's sort of like a watch and see. And so most people are going to show up to situations like, okay, and they have like planned how it's going to go.

And this is what they're going to do. And this is what they're going to say. And then there's like the actual, you know, practice. The reality on the ground. Like when you get there, it's like, holy, you know, what's going on? Then there's this whole like, okay, so then how do we approach what's actually happening here in this moment? And so I think it's like, you know, we have everything we need, like, there's like the skill set is there. But there's like, there's like an unwillingness,

I feel like, to participate in listening. And it's not just like hearing what's going on, but like hearing what's going on in your like what's going on and like your heart becomes like your ear really and so it's like this generous listening that's required like all of you has to show up for that right so you cannot be divided on your cell phone or doing you can't you have to just be there and immerse yourself in and actually almost be in that person's shoes to be able to anticipate their needs. And so that's what I find most when people are like, well, what is it that you do in the moment? And a lot of people, one of my clients say, oh, she's like a producer for your birth.

I think a producer anticipates what's next. Like, oh, they can see this is coming, that got messed up, let me fix that, like, they can do all these things, right, to make sure that the entirety of the experience is one that people remember in a certain way. And so I really want to make sure that I don't construct something, but that I hold space for something that'll be remembered in the way that this person would like but also that when i show up that i'm not putting what i want to happen into play but more like ask well what does this situation call for and what's the best outcome for all that are here and in this exact moment what do we need and responding like that and so i think that that takes like sensitivity it takes uh you know you have to be constantly sort of thinking about what's next but not necessarily in a way where

you're distracted but being able to like have right at your fingertips, like the solution to something and be able to do it with grace, you know. And I think it's like when we talk about delivering a baby or delivering, I feel like, you know, the mother gives birth, but we deliver. Like we bring safely the outcome to unfold. We as the child, you know, the doctor or midwife, the child provider of nurses, the doulas, whoever, like we actually deliver an experience. And so I think that for me, like that's my sort of vantage point to come the taxi or however, or like in the hall

before I come in, like making that, that I come like without all this stuff going on. To answer the question around like this possibility, I also do that because I think that I have to then build up in people sometimes this belief in themselves. I have to almost construct for somebody what that looks like, because they might be coming from a past that was riddled with miscarriage or with abuse or with, you know, maybe other birth outcomes that weren't as positive as the one that they're hoping for, or maybe having had so many things in their immediate sort of social network that these stories have tainted what they think is possible, or just like living in the world and seeing how birth is projected and how women's bodies are perceived, right? So it's like, well, how is this even possible that I can do this, right?

So I have to start like with all of that, like sort of against, right? And then go back to like the science and then go back to the, you know, spiritual and then go back to the, you know, spiritual, and then go back to the sacred, and, like, fuse all of that and speak to people in a way that they recall. They have this sort of recollection of really what they're capable of on, like, a cellular level. Like, not just, like, like oh you can do it rah rah rah but like really reminding them and teaching too but it's like really a remembrance because

these are things that we know like ancestral wisdom really kicks in when you're in birth and I think one of the things that's like not really talked about, which I love to educate people in that work with me, but also people in this space, that to move into a place where you can, where you have like labor sort of progressing, we actually move out of like a beta brainwave state into alpha. So we get out of like, where you and I are having this conversation and people who are listening, you're listening to us, which you're also thinking about your dry cleaning, and you're sitting in traffic. And it's like, oh, my God, there's all this stuff going on. But at the same time, you're fully listening, we have your full attention, right? Then, all of a sudden, the brainwaves at that point are like really erratic and, you know, and hard to sort of chart. But then you sort of ascend to like a flickering state of consciousness, which is alpha waves, and they're more organized, and there's a pattern and they're slower moving. And in that state, when you're in there, it's like, you could be doodling or daydreaming,

you could be, you know, sort of almost sleep, and then you kind of wake up and realize where you are. Or you could be in a moment of intimacy or arousal. You could also be giving birth. And that's the state you have to be in for your body to go into a trance-like state to be able to do what this primal process and primal template has been unfolded for us which is um every mammal has this capability but like there's all these impediments to being able to like access this in a hospital setting sometimes or in you know just like with our own you know um our own crazy thoughts that like you know we we hold on to that keep us from being able to like enter a state of like, elevated consciousness. And that's what's required for us to give birth.

So I'm constantly trying to protect the space that a woman is in so that she can get into her inner animal and be able to do what she doesn't actually have to know what to do because it'll turn on for her and she'll be able to do it if she can like get out of this like okay trying to control everything so really it goes back to like this idea of not trying to control but the control is really in the surrender like you actually have a full control of a process if you think about it in this way where it will unfold almost like textbook style if you just sit in the back seat and let your brain your body do all the work together and if you can do that and if you can stay in like an awareness state spiritually like that i trust that this is all unfolding in

the way it's meant and each wave of contractions or sensations i'm closer to meeting my baby and this sensation is good like this is for the better you know and then move your body in the way that feels you know good for you then it will unfold in the way it's meant to because guess what like you're not going to be the first human to mess it up because this has been happening for millennia so you're not like that special that you can mess up a process that's been you know unfolding for forever like we're all like that's what makes us all the same, right? So I think that if we can get back to just, like, the basics of honoring how people are born, like, their birthdays are sacred. And it's two birthdays because the mother is born, the woman is born into motherhood and the baby is born into this world. And the way that we're doing it now, some of the births are, like, traumatic for both the mother and child.

Some of the births are really, you know, there's, like, I know people who are still sort of shuffling through life because of, like, how I would say part of the reason is because of, like, how they were born. And so I think that the care that we put and the attention that we put into palliative care and into end of life care is so important, but there's also an importance that needs to be and a protection that needs to be placed for mothers and babies because this is the crux of community. This is how we're like entering into the world.

And a baby knows within like the first couple of hours of life whether or not the world is a safe place. And I don't think we're doing a good job, if we look at what's happening today, of making sure that babies grow into sensitive people that then treat the plants, animals, and other people around them with love. We're failing on a lot of aspects of that.

We do see that there's a lot of work to be done in that place, I think. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X.

Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun on january 24th tell me how to fly this thing mark walberg you know what the difference between me and you you're gonna die don't shoot if we need them y'all need a pilot flight risk yeah i also i love the um the what you explained is It's actually two births happening at once.

And I wonder if we don't acknowledge that enough, that yet we all see the birth of the child. Yet that second birth of motherhood, you know, and as you sort of described it, you evolve. It's a different, it's the same person, but at the same time, you're sort of birthing a new you. And yeah, I think we probably create the space to nurture the baby to a certain extent. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But very rarely create the space for that second birth to actually really take root and emerge and develop in a way that's really nourished. And it sounds like that's so much of what you've now built your life around is helping, supporting women in that and acknowledging that that is important. That is, there's, you know,

creating space for ritual and for care and just for space to allow that to happen. So you've now built your entire career essentially around this, and you've built a company at the same time, Mama Glow. What was in your head when you, what was the thought process where you're thinking, okay, so, you know, I'm figuring out ways to really, to integrate the natural environment to support women through this incredible journey personally and now there's something bigger that i want to do here to start this company called mama glow um what's behind that it's interesting because like my son's always like well i'm the reason you have

mama glow and it's true because i don't think that so on the the one hand, I think that I was at a precipice where there was not good information on the Internet yet because the Internet hadn't really popped off the way it has in recent years. Two, I was in a place where I was like a transplant. I was in New York, and I'm from California, and a lot of the principles that I was like living by, there were communities and pockets of communities that like, I think believed these things, but hadn't fully emerged as like a movement, right? Like in California, where it was like a big thing since like, you know, the 60s and stuff. So then the third thing was that I think I had seen a need and I was exposed to this idea that there needs to be something here.

And I think that as soon as you're made aware that there's something that exists as a problem or as a, you know, something that should be addressed. And you know that within you, there's resources to address it. It's like this unrelenting nagging that you feel until you actually put pen to paper and address it and decide how you're going to tackle it. It's almost like God keeps knocking like, hey, you like remember that thing that you're thinking about? It was like it keeps coming back or you get presented in different ways with that information about how you're supposed to, you know, fold it in. I think so many people think like when you're starting on this entrepreneurial journey, for instance, you must first start with a business plan and then do this and get an advisory board and, you know, whatever, and then try to raise money. And I just was like, I'm just going to go do this thing. I'm just going to like,

you know, pull together these resources. Here's where my strengths are. Here's where my education lies. And then here's where I need to sort of buffer so that I can have the credibility to be able to help women in this way. And I'll tell my story and whatever, right? So it was like, there was a lot of things that were on the table already that I had, and there were things that I needed to get. And I got those things in terms of like the yoga certification, which obviously you know about. And then there was the nutrition work that I did with the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. And then the doula piece was very interesting. And so that was so funny, because I was going to an ashram to teach a course. And when I went, I remember, it was my birthday when I was taking place. And there was this Vedic

astrologer who sort of, he did all the rituals rituals and he would do a puja before every course and everything. And so it was my birthday. So he did this puja for me. And he said to me, come to my little hut. And I was like, okay, I'm kind of like halfway, not sure if this is like appropriate or not. Like I didn't like, I was just like, I'm just going to go. So I go to his little hut hut which was this tiny room where almost my shoulders were even touching the walls like you couldn't move it was like a bathroom

stall it was so small this little hut and on the walls there were like inscriptions and um he had like this banana leaf of sort of placemat almost that he had made and there were all these sort of placemat almost that he had made. And there were all these sort of divination symbols and stuff on it. And so he had started writing all this stuff down. And he was looking at my palms. And then he started to throw, there was cowrie shells, and there's all kinds of stuff going on. And he had some stones and stuff, and he started to put them in formation and then he began to read to me what was the important numbers in my life as well as some other wisdom he had to share much of which was coming through in very broken english that i couldn't understand so i was like oh god this is like so awesome but also like anticlimactic because I can't understand anything. So I'm like really struggling.

Like I'm closing my eyes and like I have one ear towards him to really hear him as much as I could. And he gave me some numbers. And so I wrote all the numbers down. And I still have this piece of paper at home. And then he said to me, so you're supposed to mother the mother. And I was like, oh oh it's fascinating because he doesn't know anything about me right so I was like well I'm kind of doing that like I'm doing this thing and like we serve moms and you know pregnancy and this and then he's like yeah but

it's like it's more you're supposed to do it more like deeper and I said deeper okay and I was like well I'm like all right you know like that's that was like okay he couldn't have known about that so that like I'll give him that so I said okay well I'll take the numbers I took the numbers you know then I eventually I came home and I was thinking about it like everywhere I went I was like okay not like I would see I was like oh like you know really like hyper aware and then I got back to New York and then I was like, okay, I would see. I was like, oh, really hyper aware. And then I got back to New York, and then I was just back in my routine. I remember vaguely getting an application to apply for a doula fellowship.

And you know how back in the day when you would get these group emails, you thought it was spam? Somehow I opened this group email, i applied for this um doula fellowship which i don't even remember actually filling out the application right like i don't consciously remember it so i'm home and i remember one day i woke up in the morning and i'm going about my day and then i eventually check email because it wasn't something that you checked at the beginning of your mornings back then and I eventually got around to email and I remember I open it and you know it's doing this ping you know whatever everything's coming up and I look at the email and I see you're accepted to this doula

fellowship program and I was like oh cool and then I'm like almost like what do the fellowship kind of right in my mind. And then I look at the date. And I was like, it was one of the dates that he gave me. And I was like, got it. Like, I'm supposed to add this in. And I was very resistant, because I was like, Oh, everyone was asking me from, you know, yoga to everywhere, like, can you be my doula? Can you help me with my birth? And I was like oh like I don't know that I could add this into my life and I did and when I did Jonathan it like transformed everything and it was like the missing link to be able to support women in this way it was already

like it's like I already inherently knew from the listening that I did as a child like in Larkspur California amongst like medicinal plants, like being able to listen to the plants to know which ones to pick for medicine, like that was inside of me already. So I could listen for what a woman needed when she was moving through these phases of childbirth. I knew I could do it. I was resistant though. And so that when I got that, I was like, okay, done. And I added that in. But it was one of those things where, again, we're so used to kind of mapping out our lives and then looking at things and saying, oh, this doesn't really fit in based on like what we think is possible. and not necessarily making space for a little bit of the unknown to shine in when it needs to, to give you like an extra guidance to refine the path. Because sometimes you need that, like sometimes you have everything great, but there's like something else that could take it

over the top, but we don't make space for magic. And so I think that for me, the lesson was like, making that space for magic, sitting with him, made it very clear for me that I was supposed to add this in. I just had to listen and I listened and I took heed to the advice. And so I think that, you know, much of it wasn't planned and mapped in the way that like people tell you to do if you go to business school. But I think as we know, like, the business school of life is something where there's a lot of failures, there's a lot of hardship, there's a lot of, you know, like knocking your head against the wall. But you sort of figure things out. And I think there's an agility and a pivoting that's really sort of beautiful that you're able to do when you're not attached so intently to like an outcome, but like really engaged in a process and knowing that, okay, I'm really focused on helping people. Like if that's what you're going to be doing at every step of the way, then I think you'll have impact and you just look to see how things work. And I

think that that's what I've been just doing all these years is like figuring out what works. And then now we're finding, refining, refining. And so now, you know, we're refining and seeing that there's other things that people need and making space to build around those needs. And so but that comes from listening. not necessarily planning for a particular thing without having done the market research or having, you know, proof of concept. And I think that now we have that. And so much of what, when I talk to entrepreneurs, they're like, okay, here's what I'm doing. And this is what it looks like. I'm like, well, what did you test? Or what did you, how do you know that this is what people need? It's more like, well, I want to do this,

not like, well, I'm trying to fill a void, or I'm actually solving a problem. It's like, sometimes it's a problem for someone, but they haven't looked at the lens of the people outside of themselves, and actually talk to other people to see if they can meet that need. Yeah, there's a lot of ego attachment in the world of entrepreneurship. Oh, yeah. It's interesting. It feels like you're becoming a doula was an important part of your entrepreneurial education, because the process has got so much crossover.

Oh, yeah. You know, when you're bringing different kinds of babies into the world. Yeah. But it's really interesting. I bet if you sort of said, okay, what are the core things that I've learned, like the most important lessons about being a doula, and then you said, okay, so if I broaden that, would it apply to actually building a business?

I bet there's a huge amount of crossover there. So much. So maybe entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs should all go and learn how to study to be doulas. They should. There's so many applicable skills. So I want to come full circle with you. So the name of this is Good Life Project. So if I offer the term out to you, the phrase, to live a good life, what comes up?

What does it mean you know Jonathan even just saying that good life living the good life you know even saying those words make you feel lighter like give a sense of levity but I think living a good life I think is really just being attuned to your surroundings to the point where you see the beauty in all things, having freedom. And what I mean by that is not an illusion, right, that you're free, but really like walking and feeling levity in the choices that you make, in the people that you surround yourself with, not feeling like tethered to the ground,

unless you want to be on the ground. And I think it's just loving. I think it's about really diving deep with your passions. I know people talk about this a lot and it's about really diving deep with your passions. I know people talk about this a lot, and it's a big, like passions are a big buzzword or whatever. But it's like we're all sent here, as we know, with our children and stuff. They come here, they're born on mission, and we often take them off course, and then they have to spend their whole lives finding their way back, either through therapy or whatever ways they find their way back. But we're all here on mission. And so it's like, well, am I staying with that or am I veering off and getting lost again? I think living the good life is if you're attuned to that mission,

then God keeps folding things in that just make it better. It's like keeps putting layers of pancakes, you know what I mean? And syrup. It's like, it's awesome, I think. So I think it's about that. I think it's just, you know, enjoying the journey, but making a journey that's one of your choice. And how you do that, I think, is really just by, it goes back to, again, another cliche that we say all the time of living your truth. And if you're constantly filtering what belongs and what doesn't belong so that you can keep steadfast and feel when something comes into your force field, like that isn't, that's not it,

then it just keeps that pathway clear. And it's very, you know, you can see really clearly where you're headed if you do that. And so I think it's like showing up every day to weed. And so you have to know, like, and be able to forecast, right, and anticipate for yourself, like, what doesn't belong. And so I think we do that when we start and that really allows us to live this good life. There's almost these energetic boundaries in place from like these actions that we've been making that keep us on track. So part of that good life is tapping into like your own medicine, too. Like, what is that for you? What is it that you need daily? What's your dose?

And making sure that you, like you do everything else and like you make time for everything else that you fold that into your life. Because if you know listening to this podcast helps you feel fulfilled and it gets you through your day, then you need to turn that on when you get up in the morning. Or if it's prayer or if it's meditation or your yoga class, you need to make time for that.

I know that for me, I feel most fulfilled and like I'm living my good life when I do all of those things, when I fold in my medicine, when I spend time with my son, when I do all the things that I've actually been working hard to create space for, then I feel like I'm living the good life. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. If the stories and ideas in any way moved you, I would so appreciate if you would take just a few extra seconds for two quick things. One, if it's touched you in some way,

if there's some idea or moment in the story or in the conversation that you really feel like you would share with somebody else, that it would make a difference in somebody else's lives, take a moment and whatever app you're using, just share this episode with somebody who you think it'll make a difference for. Email it if that's the easiest thing, whatever is easiest for you. And then, of course, if you're compelled, subscribe so that you can stay a part of this continuing experience. My greatest hope with this podcast is not just to produce moments and share stories and ideas

that impact one person listening, but to let it create a conversation, to let it serve as a catalyst for the elevation of all of us together collectively, because that's how we rise. When stories and ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change happens. And I would love to invite you to participate on that level. Thank you so much, as always, for your intention, for your attention, for your heart. And I wish you only the best. I'm support those who support us and who help make this show possible. This week, it's FreshBooks. Check out the link in the show notes or go to freshbooks.com slash goodlife. And if you want to check out Todd Herman's 90-day year, his free online masterclass series, be sure to just click on the link in the show notes. Really eye-opening information.

The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10.

Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun.

On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk.