Good Life Project - Level Up Your Life with Nerd Fitness Founder, Steve Kamb

Episode Date: January 11, 2016

Nerd. Gamer. Athlete.Three words you rarely hear uttered in the same sentence, let alone to describe any one person (unless you're talking about epic movie battles).But, that "triple-threat" describes founder of the global Nerd Fitness movement and author of Level Up Your Life, Steve Kamb, perfectly.A lifelong gamer and nerd, Steve found himself exposed to the world of fitness later in life. It was like a switch turned on. His life was transformed, and he wanted to find a way to apply what he knew about game-theory and technology to fitness in a quest to help millions of people break out of the fits and starts and finally reclaim their health.So, he created his Nerd Fitness revolution, the members of which call themselves The Rebellion. It seems he struck a chord. Nerd Fitness exploded, growing rapidly into a global community with more than 250,000 members and millions of visits to their online home every month.But, that's not all, Steve also figured out how to literally turn his everyday life into a living, breathing video game he calls his Epic Quest of Awesome. One that has taken him on incredible adventures all over the world, from Croatia to Brazil and Monaco to Munich, all while spending very little money.His new book, Level Up Your Life is essentially the manifesto for the revolution.In this week's conversation, we explore Steve incredible adventure, we dive into how he stumbled upon the "unlock key" for physical transformation in the world of gaming and how he has worked to engineer Nerd Fitness to help people do what seemed impossible before. Oh, and how along the way, he's figured out how to live a deeply adventurous and meaningful life Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him!

Y'all need a pilot? Although I looked like a million bucks and lived like I was making millions of dollars, you know, I really was a backpacker traveling through France, and I had just kind of hacked my way into becoming James Bond to cross a very specific mission off my list of things to do. So when I think about my days in high school, I think about the gamers, I think about the nerds, and I think about the jocks as pretty much three completely

separate people and three totally separate communities, which did not mix all that well. This week's guest, Steve Kam, is the amalgam of all three. He's a nerd. He's a geek who loves science and studying and business. He's a gamer, a lifelong gamer, and he's a guy who's obsessed with fitness. And here's the cool thing. He's actually figured out a way to bring them all together and to build a pretty stunning global community called Nerd Fitness that helps people literally get incredibly fit and at the same time turn their lives into living and breathing video games, where they are the main player in a game. And it has led him on adventures around the world doing incredible things.

And we're going to dive into that. He's also the author of a great new book called Level Up Your Life. So we're going to explore his journey together and take you guys on a nerd fitness adventure. I'm Jonathan Fields. This is Good Life Project. I thought it would be fun to actually start out talking about the story that you told me when we were hanging out at dinner when we first met like a month or two ago, which is the Monte Carlo story. Because it's like the perfect setup and take me into your experience my thought process behind it not even your thought first just like lay out like take me into like it's the day of

okay and this is what went down and then take me back sure to what really was going on okay so it's the day of this is september of 2000 and september 2011 and i walk into the fairmont monte carlo with a tuxedo over one shoulder and like my backpack over the other i'm in flip-flops and like the those travel pants like the zip-off definitely not dressed like a guy that should be walking into the fairmont monte carlo i walk in and say excuse me i have a hotel reservation for the evening and they're like uh are you in the right place yeah yeah i know i check it it's under steve cam they're like oh right this way miss you know leave me to my room which is overlooking the mediterranean just beautiful beautiful location so and this is this is a really fancy place oh my gorgeous like i'm giggling like a school girl just like walking

through this hotel again like i don't don't necessarily end up in places like that, but I use hotel points and kind of hacked my way into this location. So I check into my hotel room. Again, I'm overlooking the Mediterranean. There's infinity pools all throughout the, it just amazing. I walked down to like a local, I think a local cafe or something. And I pick up a few beers to bring back to my room for some liquid courage, drink a beer, change into my tuxedo. And immediately like I am transformed into the James Bond version of Steve Camps. I'm like,

I'm, I am in the Mediterranean. I am in this hotel overlooking it. I'm now in a tuxedo. And what else does James money to do? He needs to gamble. So I walk up the hill and my walk, I probably was like Travolta and Saturday Night Fever. Like that was probably the way I was

walking. Not intentionally, just the fact that I was in a tux and watching like, you know, million dollar cars drive by me in Monaco. So I go into the Monte Carlo casino and I sit down and proceed to gamble for like four or five hours playing blackjack and try to play it calm and cool collected throughout the whole night and ended up winning a pretty significant you know decent amount of money and i was like collect you know like calmly collecting my money and playing it cool you know with my talks meeting on the inside i'm like dancing an irish jig i'm like i'm in i'm in this place i'm gambling i'm actually making money on this weekend experience and i get to cross this epic quest off of my giant list of things I'm trying to do. And that was live like

James Bond for a weekend. And the next morning I woke up and like watch these yachts pulling into the Monaco Harbor. It was like, my life is ridiculous. And I can't believe that just happened. Yes. Pretty freaking cool. And where did you go immediately after that? Immediately after that, I returned to my like a $10 a night hostel in Nice, France, returned my tuxedo back to the costume shop that I had rented it from. Like it had this costume shop had giant animal heads. And like, it was like a really bizarre costume shop. And the back wall of this costume store just happened to be tuxedo rentals as well. So although i looked like a million bucks and lived like i was making millions of dollars you know

really was a backpacker traveling through france and i just kind of hacked my way into becoming james bond to cross a very specific mission off my list of things to do okay which really sets the tone for what it's like what is really i mean going it's like you what is really going on? It's like if anybody had seen you in that hotel gambling in a tuxedo in Monte Carlo, like, oh, this is obviously a billionaire. Yeah, or the son of an oil tycoon. And this is just another night for him. And meanwhile, you exit that, go back to a $10 a night hotel,

and hand in your rented tuxedo to a costume shop. Right. What's really going on here? Up until that trip, and I had never been outside of North America. I'd always wanted to travel and I always wanted to do these things, but I consistently found myself saying,

eventually, someday, instead living vicariously through my favorite characters in books or my favorite characters in video games and this just consistently like this was a recurring theme throughout my life so after I started my company nerd fitness and was able to start making a little bit of money with it online I decided that I was tired of living vicariously through these characters. And I wanted instead to start living vicariously through myself. So I create, pulling from those favorite games and books and movies that I loved, I put a system in place and identified the things that I'd initially loved to see in a screen and put them into my actual life. So I was like,

I love James Bond. What does that look like? Okay. I need to be able to do gamble in a tuxedo at the Monte Carlo. I grew up watching Top Gun every other day when I was a little kid with my brother. I was like, okay. So I found a place in New Zealand that allows you to fly a stunt plane. You literally sit in a stunt biplane and you, the guy in the, in you know seat behind you let's go with the joystick and you get to do barrel rolls and corkscrews and flips and things and i then thought like i love the movie finding nemo maybe i can find nemo on the great barrier reef or maybe it's something else so i just started to kind of look at my life as if it was a video game or i was the hero in this epic story i was trying to build and had always loved learning about growing up.

And set about traveling and having these experiences as cheaply as possible and then encouraging other people to show them like, hey, you don't need to system in place that allows you to do the things that are important to you and cut out the unnecessary things so that those things are almost like an inevitability. Like the things that you're always wanting to do are no longer the someday, it's the tomorrow or it's, you know, two weeks from now or whatever it may be. Yeah. And what's so cool to me also is that this is the outgrowth of, so you make decision to say that I'm now going to be, you know, like the main player in a real life video game or real life, you know, like epic movie adventure or hero's journey.

But it came out of, you know, like going back even further, it came out of this lifelong love of yours, which is like, you're a gamer. Yeah. I was raised by, I like to say, raised by two loving parents and a Nintendo entertainment system. And I remember as a little kid playing The Legend of Zelda and then going out into the backwoods with friends and imagining that we were the characters in this game and, you know, making wooden swords and bows and arrows and things of that nature. And I spent a strong majority of my childhood out exploring, but also playing

games. You know, I saw myself as a character maybe when I was a little kid. As I grew up, games got more complex, the graphics got better, the stories got more intricate. I found myself having to use my imagination less and less and less as the games got more and more involved. And suddenly life, before I realized it, life became the boring parts that I had to endure until I could get back into these games and go kill a dragon or climb over a mountain or you know something of that nature so I found myself more and more using these games initially they were for entertainment purposes eventually I realized they started to become an escape for me. And I was dumping 30, 40, 50 hours a week into video games and living out my free time as a character in a game.

Eventually got to the point where I was like, this is not healthy for me. I'm not happy. I might be happy, I think, when I'm playing a game, but really this is not a good balance. What if I take those same reasons why I got so addicted to those games or why I love certain books or comic books or whatever what if I take those same

mechanics and same almost like behavioral psychology reasons you know the psychological reasons why those games are so addicting like apply them to my actual life and see if I can become the character or if I can become the hero in my own story and what life would look like at that point.

And since then, it's been just a crazy ride. Jeez, just Monaco and all these other things have been wild. Yeah, and it's amazing because when you hear your average adult talk about video games, it's generally not in a good – unless it's a gamer. It's generally not in a good context. It's destroying us. It's inciting violence and all this stuff. And there's an addictive element to it. And there are extremes on both sides,

but there's going to be some truth to all of that. So what fascinates me is that if you kind of look at it and say, okay, maybe I'm actually feeling some of those potential negative things in my life, but what if I took the fundamental elements that make the game the game? What if I look at the actual architecture of it? Why does that only have to happen on the screen? Exactly. It's funny. You don't realize it, but how well these games have been designed to suck you in to get you to say one more level or i need to go kill one more bad guy or just just one more quest and you don't realize it but man like 20 30 minutes will go by before you realize it hours

will go by weekends will be lost to these games so i started to think about like what it truly is it about those experiences and you know ied it down to a few things, specifically just this idea of the progress principle that I'm sure you're familiar with. Yeah, Jerusalem Obelisk. Absolutely. Right. That we actually enjoy as a species making progress more so than we do, like, the end result of what we get. So it's the idea of leveling up a character instead of see trying to get a guy from level one to level 50 and like only being happy when you reach level 50 it's actually the intermediate steps the levels

two three four five six whatever uh that that provide the happiness to you and kind of trigger those pleasure points in our brain that make us say oh i want to do more of that so i thought like why don't we take this progress principle and apply it to real life? So, you know, in a game, it's, you don't go from zero to 50, you go from zero to one. And then at level one, you earn a new sword. That new sword allows you to go explore a new location. That new location has a new bad guy that gets you to level two. So it's like a very specific set of steps that you can take in order to get from A to B. And I started thinking of how I could do that in real life. And that's kind of how this giant adventure quest that took me around the globe really began. So I kind of want to go into that quest,

but there's something that's bugging me. So I'm fascinated by this idea of using game mechanics to actually build the way you live your life around it and get that same sense of just constant feelings of making progress and like, you know, like regular rewards and like, constant feedback, like, yeah, moving forward and moving forward and moving forward, rather than this, you know, like, okay, I'm gonna win when I'm 65. This nebulous goal. Yeah.

Yeah. But at the same time, one of the things that kind of like the questions that comes up in my mind is that your average game, like you said, I don't think most people realize the level of behavioral engineering that goes into designing a successful video game. working with PhDs in coding and just phenomenally brilliant people. Because the gaming industry, a successful game, is going to make more money than a blockbuster movie. So there's a huge incentive to really understand the psychology of this. But at the same time, when a game finally hits the public, every conceivable variable and every pathway through it has been mapped. Sure. You know, and so there's, it's like there's no room for serendipity.

So when you take those same mechanics and you apply it to real life, how do you account for the possibility of the unknown? Absolutely. Well, to go back to that first point you just made, it's funny. Actually, there's an entire industry or entire group of gamers. You know, they do like speed runs where they try to see how quickly they can get through certain games. Oh, no, it's like speed chess. Oh, it's speed chess, but it's, you know, so, and people find hacks and, you know, breaks in the code that allow them to do it.

So, for example, The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time, widely considered the greatest game of all time. Somebody found a way to beat that entire game now in 17 minutes the first time you play it take it took me probably 20 30 40 hours but people found breaks in the code um very similar to you know super metroid people find like ways to sequence breaks so like oh if i get this item first instead of that one then i can skip half of the levels and move on it's other things so there's always a different way to approach those things but to your point saying like well a game is by the most part mostly figured out by the time you get it life is a lot more i guess fluid and that sometimes it does change and in those aspects i tend to think more towards the idea of the hero's journey, which I know you're also familiar with, and most people are. But it's the idea that in movies there's often plot twists.

You know, somebody goes to rescue or goes to find buried treasure, and then along the way they meet a woman or this woman meets a man, and then that person gets kidnapped all of a sudden instead of being a treasure hunting story it becomes a revenge story or something so i've done the best i can to lay out my life in a way with enough structure so that i know what i need to do next because i think if you leave it very nebulous it's very easy to not be able to take that next step however i've I've also taken four, five, six steps or completed a number of quests,

and then something in my life will change. I spent an entire year living out of a backpack and traveling, and then I wanted to have a home again. So my game then shifted from a world-traveling, swashbuckling adventure game to now it's more of a fitness and music game. Like while writing this book, Level Up Your Life, I put on 15 to 20 pounds of muscle. I put a strong focus on getting stronger.

Strong focus on getting stronger. And I learned to play the violin. And I applied game mechanics to both of those new skills or improved things that I was trying to improve. And my game had changed. And I thought that was, you know, I think that's okay to kind of let new skills or improved things that I was trying to improve. And my game had changed. And I thought that was, you know, I think it's okay to kind of let people know, like, your quest system, go wild when you lay it out and start crossing things off. But as you do, that game might change. Just be open to the idea of a plot twist in your story.

Yeah. And I think as you're saying that, it's also, I think, kind of what's coming to me is this idea of part of the game approach also is that, you know, you assume that in the future you're going to have a series of adventures, a series of requests, and a series of challenges. So part of your job is to do things to equip yourself with the skills and the tools to be able to handle it before it happens. And I think that's so powerful because that's a regular part of gaming. I'm not a gamer, but I played enough when I was a kid to remember that you want to go get the energy stores and you want to get the swords and the tools because you know that stuff is coming.

I don't think we do that in everyday life. So I think there's a really interesting lesson there. Yeah. So I was talking about this and there's a chapter called how to, I think there's a really interesting lesson there. Yeah. So I talk about this and there's a chapter called how to, I think it's, there's a whole chapter built around Jason Bourne, building your body so that it is equipped to handle kind of anything. So for example, I went rock climbing in Thailand and I've never gone outdoor rock climbing before.

I probably hadn't climbed in years prior, you know, up until that point. I can't tell you the last time I went and did it. But I was able to do it incredibly well because I had truly focused on kind of making my body prepared for any physical activity that I could throw at it. So it's kind of like you spend those first few levels in, like, newbie land, like, learning certain skills and learning things that then translate to any skill path that you take beyond that. And I think the cool thing is that many skills are pretty complementary. They're additive.

So when you get stronger, it also allows you to rapidly learn another skill, whereas if you had just started with that other skill but didn't get stronger before... So what's an example of that? I mean, I think rock climbing is a great example. So I made sure when I was traveling that I found a place to exercise every other day. And my gyms were often playgrounds that I would find. I'd check into a hostel in some location. I'd pull up like a Google map and look for a patch of green on the map. And I assume that

was a park and there'd be hopefully a tree or a swing set or something. And I would just go do pull ups and push ups and squats, like nothing, nothing drastic. But because I had made that part of my game, like I have to exercise every other day in order to keep my body prepared for anything. Then all of a sudden, if I'm if I'm tasked with going on a very long hike or I have to go rock climbing or I'm going to play, go play soccer with local people in a particular city or country or something, I'm already prepared for it. And I'm doing much better at those things had I just, instead of not exercising, not making it a focal point, it made everything else that I did a lot easier. So it's like it gives you the ability to say yes to so many more things as they come at you rather than saying, no, I'm not actually, like, give me a couple of months and then I can say yes.

It's kind of just like, well, okay. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. When you prepare yourself for everything, you can do anything, which is, I realize realize kind of pretty broad but when you can train your body and prepare itself to do various things it makes you like you said it removes that barrier between there's something that's something i want to do and i'm going to do it compared to i'd love to be able to do that someday and like if you're in a foreign country like who knows when you're going to get a chance to come back and do that thing.

But you also need to take care of yourself. So properly preparing your body for anything up front allows you to do those things in those locations. You're like, man, that is so freaking cool. I'm so glad I did it. And I think it also prepares you to handle some negative stuff also. I mean, it's funny because I'm a meditator. I sort of invest in it daily. I'm on day 42 right now. Awesome. 15 minutes a morning. That's awesome. So I'm a meditator you know I sort of invest in a daily day 42 right now 15 days

15 minutes a morning so I'm working on it leveling up the meditation awesome love it you know over the long term like the practice has this like you said it has this additive effect where it's just when you have a practice and it's it develops over time it's not like this intervention type of thing it's a thing where it's just, you just notice that when something that would normally have just knocked you comes into your life, you're just like, I'm actually more okay than I would have been. I can kind of read through it, you know?

But the time to start that practice, it's like the old thing about like planting and trading, like the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. Like the next best time is now. You know, the thing thing about planting and trading. The best time to plant and trade was 20 years ago. The next best time is now. The thing about the practice is, yes, if you get hit by this horrible thing in your life that you have to deal with and where some sort of daily practice movement or meditation is really going to help, start now. But had you started a couple of months ago or a couple of years ago, it's much easier to start

that practice when you're not in the throes of drama and trauma and develop that in a more peaceful time than it is when you're like, when you need it the most. The challenges were not incentivized to do that. What I like about your structure is it kind of gives us this external incentive to do that. Sure. When you build in a good reward system and a good accountability system, it's funny. There's a quote. I think it's – I can't remember where I got it. I think it was in a Cura, Q-U-O-R-A. How would you pronounce that?

It was somebody asked a question like, I always wanted to exercise. Or like, oh, man, I'd love to travel or I wanted to write a book, but I can't get myself to get motivated to do it. And that the response that the best, the highest upvoted response was like, screw motivation, cultivate discipline. I was like, oh man, that's good. That's good. And then I started thinking through it. It's like, okay, instead of like, I have to get myself to exercise. Like what if you structured your life and you surrounded yourself with allies, very much like in a video game where you surround yourself with people that are better than you and you get yourself the best equipment for your character to have the best possible chance of succeeding what if you could structure your life so that instead of having to be motivated to start

meditating every day until and you'll always put it off until all of a sudden it's too late what if you could build that system into your life so that the success is a foregone conclusion? Like I noticed something very similar with when I had started traveling, you know, the smallest things would probably set me off and like, oh, I'm running, I'm running late for this. Oh, I might miss this bus or, you know, what it may be. But once I was traveling through foreign countries and understanding like things happen like you know you pile into a bus with you know 100 people in it and it just doesn't stop at the stop you're supposed to get off at for no reason you have no idea why you're like okay

i can deal with this i can get through it and i came back from that trip like a changed person i was like the small you know sitting in traffic is like, okay, like this is, it is what it is. Like life goes on, things are going to be okay. Certain setbacks that would have probably wrecked me before had me been instead

looking at it like an obstacle that had to be overcome. It's like, ooh, okay, like this is, how can we MacGyver our way in or out of this

particular situation? Like what, what are the skills that I need or the tools I can implement to pull this thing off? So using those same game mechanics allows you to get into and out of situations that you might have not What are the skills that I need or the tools I can implement to pull this thing off? So using those same game mechanics allows you to get into and out of situations that you might have not otherwise been prepared to handle if you start building and setting the proper gamer mindset, I guess.

Right now. Right. And that's one of the biggest challenges in life. It's like we know that something like 95% of all primary care physician visits wouldn't need to happen if people actually invested themselves in preventative care rather than, oh, something's wrong, I have to go see a doctor. But this may have been actually the first – it may have been the first conversation we ever recorded with this. I'm trying to remember, first or second was Dan Ariely, who's this legendary behavioral economist. And he researches why people do weird things that we do. You know, completely, right. What's his name? Predictably irrational, right? So we like to think we're logical people, but we're so far from that. So dumb. Yeah. And we got into this conversation about like, why don't people, we know that we should be doing it. We know we're going to pay like way down the road, but road, but we just don't do it.

And it's like when there's not this sense of almost visual or tactile, when we can't feel it now, we just don't take action. And that's what I like about what you're saying. If you think in terms of what's the structure that I can put in place today, and then you used the word rewards, and actually I want you to go more into it. What are the rewards that I can put into place today that would actually make me engage in this behavior now, even though potentially the ultimate benefit wouldn't be experienced

until way down the road, or it just might be serendipitously experienced or not? Sure. But how do we put in place a structure on the reward to start taking action now? Well, I do love the idea of reward. And we all know, you know, in my head, I picture like a guy sitting on a donkey with a stick and a carrot and like the donkey is just dutifully walking forward. And to an extent, like that happens in our brains. Like we see the thing that we're reaching toward and it makes all the the thing

that we kind of don't want to do more and we can endure it more because we know that there's this this reward at the end of the tunnel the way i think about this i think differently than many people is i really focus on creating reward systems that reward me back and again this goes back to a video game so when you reach level, you get a new spell that allows you to kill a more difficult bad guy or a better sword that allows you to go explore a new location or you unlock a key that lets you go someplace new. And what most people do in real life is they're like, oh, if I run five days this week, then I get to eat an entire chocolate cake because I earned it.

Right. It's a reward that sets you back. Yeah, it's three steps forward and two and a half steps back. Or more often than not, people don't realize, but it's three steps forward, four steps back. Like they would have been better off not exercising and not eating the cake than doing both of those things. So instead of rewarding yourself with things that almost sabotage your efforts to move forward, I like to think of things that reward me

with a way to encourage me to continue further down that path. So let's say you're trying to lose weight and you say, I'm gonna go to the gym three days a week, every week this month. If I can complete all of those workouts, if I can complete this workout quest that I've created for myself,

I will then allow myself to buy two new shirts, one of which is now the right size that actually fits me. And one is slightly smaller than the one that I just purchased so that it gives me further incentive to want to continue this path of living healthier. Maybe it's you want to write a book for the first time. Okay, well, if I write 500 words every morning for the next month, then I'll allow myself to buy a ticket to this writer's conference I've always wanted to attend. So it's consistently identifying a reward system

that still brings you joy and happiness and gives you something to look forward to. But that reward, and I look at it almost like a treasure chest, like when you open up that treasure chest, when you earn that new item, it further reinforces this new normal for you. And that new normal is I'm a writer. I'm healthy. I am, I run, I now run

marathon or I'm going to run a marathon. I'm a traveler, whatever it may be. Those things are just consistently reinforcing this new behavior that you're trying to build. And we all know how tough building a habit is when you can leverage any possible outsider influence i think on that or any outside influence on that and allow you to not have to use willpower it makes it so much more powerful and thus makes it so much easier for you to actually follow through with making it a new habit talk to me about the difference then between leveraging intrinsic versus extrinsic or internal versus external rewards on the process because i love the concept of rewards i'm thinking about dan pink's work and like his book drive and like where he really went into motivation he was looking at like the carrot versus the stick so

and um my concern is that if the rewards are all focused outside, like I'm going to get something, rather than intrinsic, like we've stopped doing it or we kind of cut off the possibility of doing it because it becomes a thing we can't not do because it's intrinsically rewarding. And we're always looking for the carrot forever. And then, God forbid, one day comes where there are no more carrots available. We're like, all right, I'm good. I'm done. That's a great question and i i think there is a really important balance between the extrinsic and intrinsic i think to start and i've seen this

hundreds upon hundreds of times with my business nerd fitness people are like they build this reward system and they're like i just want to lose 50 pounds and i just want to do this you know i i want to lose weight i want to feel better whatever my reward is going to be something uh external however once they get started and they start moving down this path their clothes start fitting better they start to realize like oh i like i'm i was initially only doing this because of that reward, because I had thought of what eventually things could happen. Somehow along the way, I've actually fallen in love with this concept. Like, I actually enjoy working out now.

And that is my favorite email to get from people that, like, I never thought I would say this, but I enjoy working out. And it kind of goes back to this concept of a flow. And I would totally try to pronounce the guy's name, Mikhail Chisholm. Yeah, man. I would put you on the probably center. I think it's Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi,

but don't quote me for sure on that. So I talk about that quite a bit in the book as well, but it's this concept of almost losing track of time. So that these initial things that you had started and you would use external rewards to get you started, it becomes this internal, intrinsic reward to get yourself into that state of happiness, of bliss, of losing time. And for me, I had to create a reward system in order to get myself to start playing the violin because I was so intimidated by it. Sure enough, after I got through a number of months of playing it and having this external reward, suddenly, like, I just love to pick that thing up and make

horrible noises with it and be awful with it. But I'd lose track of time. When earlier, I couldn't get myself to play for half an hour so i wouldn't play at all i had to kind of restructure my environment so i would say it was okay to only play for five minutes a day yeah and sure enough after i played five minutes i didn't want to put it down and it became something then that like i truly looked forward to and became something that i could get in the flow of because it was the perfect level of challenge and it there was a i could tell that I was getting better. I could see progress, which are the exact same reasons why people get in the zone when they're playing a video game. It's pretty cool to watch.

Yeah. I mean, I experienced that same thing when I owned a yoga center and taught yoga for years, but then sold the company. And I kind of felt myself, I had to kind of pull away from the physical practice for a long time, actually. And when I've sort of made decisions to move back to it, because your average yoga practice is 90 minutes. And when you're feeling good and you're fit and you're back in the groove, it's awesome. You don't want it to end. But just starting anything, no matter how much it was a part of you at some point, you go away from it for a while. And coming back, it feels really. And I remember telling myself, I'm not going to commit to waking up every morning and doing a full practice.

It's just like, wake up to three sun salutation days and three sun salutation days, like five, 10 minutes tops. Invariably. It's exactly like what you said. I get through the last one. I'm like, I'm going to do a little more. Right. A little more.

And you're like 45 minutes, an hour later. I'm like, oh, that was really good. But had I actually said, I'm going to wake up and do like a one hour practice, I probably would have never done it. I don't have time for an hour. I just won't do it. Yeah. It's like, okay, we only have time for five minutes. Okay, I can do that. The other thing that I was thinking as you were talking was, my sense is that, I'm curious whether you agree with this, that things that start intrinsically enjoyable, and then we bring in some external reward. We kind of then rely on the external thing.

If we take it away, almost like bastardize it, we might not go back. But things that don't start intrinsically rewarding, like exercise, for example, or playing an instrument, where we suck. It's hard. It's so difficult. It's painful. And we're supposed to. So there's very little reward in the beginning. It's just not fun

until you get to a point where you're either a bit fit or a bit confident or you have this baseline level of proficiency where it starts to be a little bit fun. It starts to feel a little bit good. in those things i think you're right i think it's like it really it can be super helpful to provide that external source like long enough to get to that point sure where if if that external thing keeps being there or not it really maybe it is maybe it is but it really doesn't matter anymore after that yeah so like playing the violin it was like i just have to play 10 minutes a day you're going

to be terrible whatever that's totally fine but you got to play for 10 minutes a day and you know the goal was after i played for x number of months i could then i started with a like i rented a violin from a store in nashville 30 20 bucks a month or something. But after six months, if I was still sticking with it, then I could upgrade to a nicer violin, which then encouraged me to continue playing. And I remember finally playing my first song all the way through on the violin, and I was like, that wasn't half bad.

Like, hey, that actually sounds okay. It was pretty cool. But I had to be okay with sucking yeah and nobody want like you have to like give yourself permission to be terrible at something and i think back to any any game any whatever nobody starts at level 50 you start at level one you know if you're taking dance lessons your first dance moves are going to be those of a drunken giraffe you know if you're playing the violin you're going to sound like a screeching cat. And it's cool.

Like I share a number of stories throughout the book of people from all walks of life that are, that have used this idea of gamification and the nerd fitness community, this rebellion that we've started to kind of use like 20 seconds of courage to get them to start doing something they've always wanted to do but are afraid of. And there's a great story of a woman in the book who in college told herself she always wanted to dance but could never get herself to do it. So she just worked up the courage to go to the dance studio and sign up for a class, and she didn't even dance. She stood in the back of the room and just watched for like, I think it was like a week at least. And then she finally like got in the back row and like sheepishly went through the movement.

But she just, she showed up and she got okay. She convinced herself it was okay, that she was going to be terrible. And now she like competes in dance competitions in college. And she used that like confidence building experience to then quit a job that she didn't like while being a full-time student to get the best job on campus from her perspective. So it's pretty cool to see these things happen, but you have to be okay with that first terrible step, that first bad note. Yeah, it's just, wouldn't it be nice if there were a way around that?

But actually, I think that's wrong, actually. Because I think the thing that makes it so awesome when you stick with it long enough that you start to feel good is the fact that you were so bad the very first moment. The fact that it was so terrifying. The fact that you were shaking in the back of the room. That's what makes it so awesome when you you kind of like pass through to the other side makes that reward so much it makes that that sense of accomplishment so much greater yeah which which is cool yeah that's a great point without i think it some people i like in the book i like to say like some people get to play the game of life on easy you know they're like six five

genetic genetically perfect and can do anything and everything they put their minds to. And for us normal Jacks and Jills and Joes, a lot of things are a lot bigger struggle. And what I set out to accomplish with the violin, and also was taking voice lessons as well, because I'd always told myself I was a terrible singer. Like what I set out to accomplish was to prove to myself that anything can be learned. Yeah. My ceiling might be a lot lower than somebody else's that is in a, comes from a musical family or has been playing music their, truly their entire lives and singing their entire lives. But I wanted to kind of prove myself wrong that like, you're going to start terrible, but if you stick with it and consistently practice, you are going to improve and get to a

point that you feel pretty good about it. And I'm now at the point where I feel pretty good about those two particular things. Whereas prior to that, I was just like, this is, I'm never going to get there. But I still have, I remember I took a video of it, myself playing the violin the first day. Yeah. Like I came home from my first lesson and I was like, here's a video of me playing the violin. And it is so painful.

I'm holding it wrong and the notes are all off. My fingers are in the wrong place. And like, you look at my face and like my whole face is contorted, trying to like mentally wrap my head around how to play this new fangled instrument. It's pretty funny. And now I have that. I can, thanks to the wonderful technology, I can look back on myself at that moment and realize like how far I've come, even though it still feels like I have a tremendous way to go. Yeah. And share what your ultimate goal is for the violin. It's pretty cool. Okay. So my ultimate goal for the violin, and now that I'm saying this out loud, means I have to do it, is I have to go to Ireland and I have to sit in a pub, either in, let's say,

Dublin or Galway, where local musicians bring their instruments with them. And they sit around and they play traditional Irish songs together. So I have a book of traditional Irish music. Turns out I just recently relocated to New York City. There is a pub two blocks down the street from me that has live irish music every wednesday night so and and not only that but now i have a friend of mine uh who invited me to be in his wedding in ireland january 30 i'm sorry december 31st of 2016 which means i have like a very specific on the calendar i have a date on a calendar i now know exactly how far back i need to go i'll know what less what songs i need to learn

there's no room to back that up anymore. It's like, I have to do it, which is lighting a fire under my butt. Something that seems so far away really isn't. And it's introducing that goal, that very specific mission that allows me to think back and say, I better get my act together on this thing.

Like, it's real now. This is real. I love that. It's like it puts the timeline on it. It sets up this creative tension. Like, okay, I need to work backwards. You can reverse it. Yeah.

You've thrown out two things a number of times now that I want to speak to. Because for the most part, we've been talking about your journey. And you're sort of like really kind of fascinating lens on turning your life into a living, breathing game. But you've also talked about these two things, nerd fitness and the rebellion. So this is not just about you. Sure. You've created something much bigger.

And you came out of it, just kind of like shorthand, you came out of a background where you were working pretty traditional life, pretty traditional jobs, not having fun, you know, kind of doing the thing that was just like following society's expectations of you and it was emptying you out. And then you decided to radically change something. And in the process, started these things, Nerd Fitness and the Rebellion as part of

it, and blew up this global community and like a whole new career in the business. Take me into the genesis of this. And then what, what is it? So I started exercising in my sophomore, junior year of high school. I had just been cut from the basketball team. And initially I thought this was like the worst moment of my entire life. Like, how do I even go back to school tomorrow? No, you know, fortunately it was probably the best thing that ever could happen to me. It terrible basketball i had no business being on the court and i remember going to the gym for the first time and having no clue what i was doing i remember walking and

being scared intimidated going through a workout that did absolutely nothing for me but i started to like this idea of like oh maybe i'm gonna get maybe i'm gonna get fit and i spent the rest of high school and all of college exercising fairly regularly whenever i wasn't playing everquest or or playstation or whatever which is not the like the normally you think somebody who's a hardcore gamer you're like okay they're on a couch they're in the dark they're never moving their body i did a lot of that too but i also forced myself to get off my Great. But it's like you had these two extreme sides of you, which you just don't think about. It's like being part of the same human being.

Yeah. Who would want to do both of those? So after college, I moved out to San Diego with my brother and I got the aforementioned traditional job. I was in sales selling construction equipment. What did I know about construction equipment? Not very much.

As a result, that was not a very good salesman. But I signed up for a gym membership out there and they gave me some free personal trainer sessions and the guy's like okay what have you been doing for a workout and how do you eat i'm like well i've been training for six years and i know what i'm doing so here's my workout i do this this this this this and i eat this because okay we're gonna get rid of all of that it's wrong you're gonna do squats and deadlifts and push-ups and pull-ups and then we're gonna

we're gonna change your diet around and help you eat better and i had more success in 30 days than i had had in six years prior to that and this light bulb went off my head i was like man if it took me all of this time to struggle through these things like there's got to be people out there that are in a similar situation as me probably love the same nerdy things that I do, but don't have six years to struggle through all this stuff. So this is right around the time that Tim Ferriss' For Our Work Week came out. And I remember reading his book and there was a point it said, like, pick a social group you're a part of and something you're good at and see if you can kind of create like a product or a community around those things. And I thought to myself, like, well, I just finished building my own computer, reading Harry Potter in between job site visits.

And I've also up at that point, you know, this has been about a year after I started the job, spent a year actually eating and exercising properly. Like, I bet I can help other people that are brand new to fitness that don't want to go to bodybuilding.com will not sign up for CrossFit and are probably too self-conscious to go to a gym. It's like, Oh, nerd fitness.

Maybe, maybe that's a thing. I don't know. So I Googled it and nothing popped up. So I bought nerd fitness.com and sat on it. Were you surprised to see it? It's funny. Like I guess when I bought it and I bought nerdfitness.com and sat on it. Were you surprised to see it? It's funny. I guess when I bought it, I bought it now eight years ago.

Now, thanks to all the Marvel movies, being fit and nerdy is in. But eight years ago, I don't think, eight years ago, I was like, I'd play EverQuest and build computers and read Lord of the Rings. But I also want to help people get fit. So I sat on it for a good year and a half. Didn't do anything with it. Actually, at that time, I quit the sales job, moved to Atlanta, got a job in marketing.

It was a complete departure. I was like, I've got to get out of San Diego. This is not a good fit for me. This job is sucking my soul out of me, and it's not a good fit. So I moved to Atlanta, got a job with a great company that charters floating music festivals. Literally, we rent cruise ships, like full 2,000-person cruise ships, and put 40 bands, 30, 40 bands on them and turning in these great festivals.

And while I was there, I finally worked up the courage to start writing articles with Nerd Fitness. And because I stumbled across a mutual friend of ours chris guillebeau who had written an ebook called 279 days to overnight success right and this whole thing was like just get a community of people together ask them what they want and then build things for those people i was like okay i can do that yeah i think i can do that like let's just start writing articles and getting people interested in nerd fitness and i just started publishing content helping beginners get fit and i wasn't a great writer when i started very similar to being terrible at violin or terrible at singing or whatever but i made it like i almost like created like this alter ego

version of steve like by day i was marketing assistant in this cruise company, but by night, I became the leader of Nerd Fitness. And I was just writing blogs and writing articles and connecting with people, but it's very like a one-way street. People would email me, and I would email them back. But they weren't talking to each other, and I thought if Nerd Fitness was going to become what I thought it could become, we needed to have a community aspect to it.

So we introduced message boards and thought of what our community should be called. I was like, no, community doesn't sound nerdy enough. So I think I put out a post on the website and I was like, do you guys want to build an empire or start a rebellion? You know, thinking Star Wars. And overwhelmingly the response came in like,

we want to join the rebellion. Like, that sounds way cooler. Like, we're rebelling against nerd stereotypes. We're rebelling against foods that are unhealthy. We're rebelling against sedentary lifestyles. And then I looked up, you know, Rebel Alliance and saw that their color scheme for the Rebel Alliance was like kind of like concrete gray and maroon red

and and and uh black and i was like that's cool and the nerd fitness logo was already circular and the rebel alliance logo was circular so i was like oh man it's like it's meant to be it was yeah you mentioned serendipity a few times that was it was it was like one of those moments i was like all right i got it we are the rebellion you're gonna join the rebellion so like my my focus shifted it went from instead of like this. So like my, my focus shifted. It went from instead of like, this is me and my journey, my journey to it's like, this is our journey and this is who we are. These are the 10 rules that we stand by. And I would love for you to check them out. If you're interested, welcome. We'd love to have you. Uh, if you read these 10

rules or these 10 things that we stand for, and you're not interested, that's fine too. There's probably another community out there for you, but by putting these kind of rules in place and giving us a voice and giving these people a way to talk to each other, things just slowly built up from there. And now it's truly a worldwide community of people. And I don't think we have anybody in Antarctica yet. So we'll say six continents that are helping each other get fit and sharing their stories and passing along their own hero's journey that they're on and, and sharing their, it's, it's become something pretty powerful and I'm just really excited to be a small part of it, which is kind of cool. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's pretty amazing when you think about what you've

built because we're talking about hundreds of thousands of people, right? Yeah, it's 300-something thousand subscribers and a message board community that is really thriving and millions of page views and a million visits. I mean, it's crazy. Mind-blowing, honestly. It doesn't feel real still. Yeah, and at the same time, you've also, I mean, you're not working on the cruise ship festival thing anymore.

This has become your full-time living. So at what point in your mind did you start to say to yourself, this could be the thing that I do as like this is my career, this is what I'm building. Like I can focus all of my energy on this, earn a living, take care of myself, build a community, and help other people. There's a few moments. I think the very first one that was the initial catalyst was I got an email from a random person that was like, Hey, man, stumbled across your website. Love it. I'm down 10 pounds.

And I was like, Oh, my God. People are reading this thing. It's not just my mom and my friends anymore. People are actually reading it. And fast forward six months, and I'm still writing every day and trying to get better. And I stumble across Brett McKay over at ArtOfManliness.com, who was one of the best communities on the planet.

Just really well done, what he had done. So I emailed him. I was like, hey, man, I'm a huge fan of what you do and how you do it. Just please keep doing it. Like, I'm a fan. And he emailed back. He's like, hey, dude, click through. You't even i don't even think i linked to nerd fitness he just saw that my email address was you know at nerd fitness he's like hey i was intrigued by the idea of nerd

fitness so i clicked through to it i love what you're doing do you ever want to write a guest post for me like let me know what i can do in the meantime i'm just going to start sharing your stuff with my community whoa okay maybe if this guy who has a community and is a full-time job thinks what i'm doing is heading down the right path maybe i can help some people and make this work and that it took about a year and a half of consistently working every day like you know my alter ego steve cam rebel leader of nerd fitness still working the day job and then i remember going on one of those cruises sitting with my parents actually happened to be on this cruise that we had a few extra cabins so we could invite friends and family at a discounted rate if you know any if we had some last minute

cancellations so my parents come on the cruise and i tell i'm noticing after having worked for this company for two and a half years that like my excitement was now in the website. And it had shifted from being really passionate about this day job to, like, I have something here. Like, I have this community. I'm excited about it. And I remember telling my dad, like, Dad, I've got to quit. And he's like, okay.

So he's like, let me get this straight. Like, you're going to stop hanging out with rock stars in the Caribbean to hang with overweight nerds online. Yes. Are you making any money with it yet no do you have a backup plan kind of but not really are you making yeah what you know what's what's your strategy for the community i said like hey guys i guess this is kind of weird considering i haven't made any money with it yet but nerd fitness is now my full-time job i had enough money saved up to get me through like two months i think like a very small runway but i had spent 18 months building this get me through like two months, I think. Like a very small runway.

But I had spent 18 months building this community. I was like, guys, I'm going to find a way to make this work. I'm going to put out an e-book a month from now. I've been working on it for a while. I hope you buy it. If you don't, that's totally fine. I'll still be writing two articles a week, every week, from now until whenever. And if I don't sell enough of them, then I'll pick up side jobs and odd jobs,

which I ended up doing anyway. It's just to make sure I could pay the bills. I painted soundstage floors for music videos from 2 to 6 in the morning and was pushing around concert equipment. I pretty much leveraged any job that I could find to pay the bills until I sold enough e-books that it bought me a few months of income and then just kind of slowly ramped it up from there. Yeah. And it's amazing to see what you built. It's funny because I love the fact also that you were willing to do whatever you had to do to make it happen. And that there was something inside of you that said, this is possible.

There was just something that said, there's something here. This is possible. And one of the conversations that comes to me a lot, I'm curious whether you've had this conversation with a number of people too, because you really sort of like you play the role of a mentor to a lot of people now. And my guess is a lot of people look at you and kind of like, I want to do what Steve did, not just in being like the nerdy fitness guy, but I want to build something similar.

And one of the questions that comes up so often comes to me is, how long do I stay with this? You know, and I've never found a really satisfying way to deconstruct that. I'm curious just what your thoughts are on it. How long do I stick with it? So it's, I think I even like make a caveat, like mentioned in the book, like, yes, I realized I quit my job. And yes, I realized I wasn't making any money with this business yet. But like, I had started two or three other blogs, I think before I had started

Nerd Fitness and fizzled out on them. And the first one, I think was a music blog, I was like, I'm going to review albums and get free concert tickets. Like that was the extent of what I had thought and then I think I tried to start you know it might have been a video game blog or something and and for whatever reason this idea of nerd fitness came around and although I hadn't intended for it to happen you know initially I was a very skinny weak individual that found a way to get stronger and healthier so initially i was going to help skinny nerds get get uh get healthy because that's the the initial message i could present and then i remember i got my first email from somebody that had been overweight and lost a significant amount of weight and the satisfaction that i got from that feeling was like i i helped this guy change his life and probably helped him save himself a few extra years

and change his quality of life. And as soon as that happened once, I was like, there is some way, somehow, this will be a business. I don't know if it's going to be e-books. I don't know if it's going to be advertising. I don't know if it's going to be personal training, whatever it may be.

But there's something here that's powerful. And after getting enough emails from people saying, like, I feel like I found my home, you know, they're like the one person in their group of friends that is like, well, I like to play video games, but I also want to take care of myself. And if their other friends aren't interested, they have nobody to get excited about when they run their first mile or they do something that is, you know, they stay home early so they can get up and go to running club in the morning or whatever it may be. And as soon as I found more and more of these people stumbling across it, I was like, this is, this is it. I don't know how long or how

long it's going to take, but I will find a way because I know it's, it's making the world a better place, you know, one, one person at a time. And I think that was really valuable to me to allow me to get through that dip, you know, Seth Godin says, get through that low point of, I've been working on this forever.

I'm only slowly building an audience, but I think people are liking it. I think that's really important for, for me was to know that I'm improving other people's lives. And that was, that was what got me through those low moments. It's like the deeper ethos, which just says there's, yeah, it's not just I'm doing it, but like this is making a difference. And it's so interesting to me also is that, you know, you combined,

you weren't just starting a blog, you weren't creating content, it wasn't a media property, it wasn't a product, it was, you were creating a world. And you were creating a world for people that I think probably felt like nobody had spoken to them before. And then you were offering a set of beliefs, you're offering an alliance and a place to belong. And were offering a structure you know like everyone research is clear as day for sustained lifestyle change community is the unlock key so you were offering this and then you were offering methodology and it's like it all just like turned into this amazing thing where all the pieces of the puzzle were there.

And so it's almost like when you look back now, like you can pick out each one of those things and cherry pick like, yes, like these actually, if any one of those wasn't present, I don't think you'd be doing what you're doing right now. First of all, I'm totally stealing everything you just said. That sounded amazing. My cheeks are turning red just sitting here. So thank you for putting it so eloquently.

And it's funny. I've had people email me and say, you know, somebody's like, hey, I study behavioral psychology. And I want to thank you for presenting these things in a way that, you know, is backed by this research. Like, really? I didn't notice. This is years ago. I was like, I just tried to do things the way that i actually wanted to do them and it turns out that because i was doing them in a way that

i knew and my ways were taken from the games and books and movies that i love understanding that the behavioral psychology is tied in so so tightly to those things as well so you know the giving us a community to be a part of and and rules to abide by and and a way for them to interact with each other those are just things i didn't have in my own life and i wanted to provide an opportunity for other people to interact with each other and i mean it's pretty cool to see if you go on our message boards like it's now been segmented into different guilds depending on how you like to train so this is in the throughout the book too but like how you know if you like to strength train then you're a warrior if you like to do

martial arts you're a monk if you like to do parkour and gymnastics you're an assassin if you like to do tai chi meditation yoga then you are a druid and our guild as the community has grown like we further segmented ourselves into smaller guilds and groups that allow these people to still like to even further like they're not just a nerd fitness rebel they're like they're a nerd fitness rebel in the ranger guild and they are completing a six-week challenge to get themselves off of sugar like it's pretty freaking cool and i think one of the best things that i did unknowingly is like i got it started and then I got out of the way. Like I let the,

like, this is your playground. My children build it how you would like it. And, and they're like, well, we need to have our group set up like this, or why don't we run this? I'm like,

great, do it. Like, this is yours. Like I, I want you guys to feel a part of it. So now we have 40 something volunteer moderators on our message boards that are running contests and, and welcoming new members in with open arms.

I'm really proud of how supportive and helpful this community has become for so many people that have kind of wandered aimlessly through the Internet. I would imagine trying to find that group that speaks their language. And now they get to be fit and talk about, you know, Star Trek versus Star Wars or whatever. Like there was somebody at, at camp nerd fitness, uh, that, that happened this past fall. And like two people like yelling at each other,

not really, but very heated debate. And it was like, I went up, it's like, is everything okay? And they were literally debating over Star Trek and Star Wars before they went to the powerlifting competition. I was like,

this, it's, it happened. This is it. This is, in my head, eight years ago when I thought of Nerd Fitness, like, if you told me this is what would have happened, I never would have believed it. So it's been pretty cool to watch it come together. That's awesome. I love that. And it feels like a good place to have

come full circle with this conversation, too. Hero's journey is your circle. So the name of this is Good Life Project. So if I offer that term out to you, to live a good life, what does it mean to you? What comes up to live a good life? I think it truly focusing on making sure that any sort of interaction you have with somebody else, like it makes, it makes their day better as a result of you being a part of it. So I think with Nerd Fitness, we try to think of like we're putting a dent in the universe, but it's really important for me to leave this planet a better place than what I inherited. So in order to live a good life, it's making progress in things that are important to you,

doing something every day that reminds you that being alive is pretty freaking awesome. And it's a gift that billions of people would love to have back and don't have that opportunity. And then lastly, do good. Do something that makes somebody else's life better. And if you can find a way to structure your life's work around improving the health or well-being of other people or solves one of their problems, I think you cross those three things off.

Like when that game over screen comes years down the road or tomorrow. I mean, who knows? Whenever that game over screen rolls around, you get to say like, you know, good game. Like I did it right. And I can move on without regrets. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for having me, man.

This is so much fun. It's awesome. Hey, thanks so much for listening to today's episode. If you found something valuable, entertaining, engaging, or just plain fun, I'd be so appreciative if you take a couple extra seconds and share it. Maybe you want to email it to a friend. Maybe you want to share it around social media, or even be awesome if you'd head over to iTunes and just give us a rating. Every little bit helps get the word out and it helps more people get in touch with the message. I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

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