Good Life Project - Live Life Colorfully | Jason Naylor

Episode Date: January 21, 2021

I first learned about today’s guest, Jason Naylor, through his art, which at that point, started appearing on walls and buildings all over New York City, and now is featured all over the world and on products, shows, in fashion and beyond. Jason is originally from Salt Lake City, Utah, where he grew up in a Mormon community and eventually felt called to step away and define his own path. After getting his BFA in graphic design from Brigham Young, he moved to New York City where he began his career in MAC Cosmetics’ Creative Department as a designer, but the whole time, he was creating his own work and starting to paint these hyper-vivid murals on walls around the city, often featuring inspirational words and quotes on the side. His style just kind of exploded with energy and kindness and playfulness. As his work caught on, leading to more and bigger commissions and collaborations with companies like Coach, Sephora, and Pepsi, he left his full-time gig and went all-in on his own art, now running his own brand, Jason Naylor Studio, where he continues to share his positivity through murals, graphic pieces, and collaborations with New York City communities, as well as popular brands. Much of his work and his philosophy of life and creativity appears in his new book, Live Life Colorfully (https://tinyurl.com/yy4mopvp).You can find Jason Naylor at:Website : https://jasonnaylor.nyc/Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/jasonnaylor/-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So I first learned about today's guest, Jason Naylor, through his art, which at that point started appearing on walls and buildings all over New York City, and is now featured all over the world and on products, shows, and fashion and beyond. So Jason is originally from Salt Lake City, Utah, where he grew up in a Mormon community and eventually felt called to step away and define his own path. After getting a BFA in graphic design from Brigham Young, he moved to New York City, where he began a career at MAC Cosmetics as a designer. The whole time, he was creating his own work and starting to paint these hyper-vivid murals

on walls around the city, often featuring inspirational words and quotes. And his style just kind of exploded with energy and kindness and playfulness. And as his work caught on, leading to more and bigger commissions and collaborations with companies like Coach and Sephora and Pepsi, he left his full-time gig and went all in on his own art, now running his own brand, Jason Neller Studio, where he continues to share his positivity through everything from murals, graphic pieces, collaborations, items, working with New York City communities, as well as popular brands. And much of his work and his philosophy of life and creativity appear in his new book,

Live Life Colorfully. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch,

getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised.

The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him.

Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. New York is a place where you came to grow up originally in Salt Lake City. I guess you grew up in a family, one of seven kids, Mormon upbringing. But it also sounds like something where it was certainly a part of your family and your culture and your belief set early on. But you evolved away from that over time yeah I mean we could talk about that for hours I did I was raised Mormon I was raised in Salt Lake City and you know Salt Lake is is a very unique place in that much of the population is LDS or

Mormon and so I was raised in a family that was Mormon. I was raised in a way that was very Mormon because all my peers, all my friends, like Sunday at church, it was a very prevalent part of life. It was a very big part of my life all the way through going on a mission, serving a mission in Brazil

where I walked around and, you know, preached the gospel of Mormonism to people for two years. And so, yeah, I mean, it was a big part of my life. When I came to New York, that was kind of an exodus from Salt Lake, from the life as I knew it there, and from Mormonism all in one. And that was 16 years ago. Right. I mean, it's interesting also,

because it's a faith that when I think about having sort of like levels of practice, you know, like Judaism, you know, so I'm a Jew, I was born and, you know, there's reform, there's conservative, there's orthodox, and then all the different multiple levels of orthodoxy. My understanding of Mormonism is it doesn't operate like that. It's sort of like you're either active or committed or not, which I always found kind of interesting. I'm always curious about sort of like the differences between different faith-based traditions that allow you to kind of leg into it to a certain extent versus you're either in or out. Yeah, it's true. It's very black and white. You know, it's, it's, you're all in or you're all out in that you're sort of rejected. I mean, I think that to be, to be honest with you, I think that many people have their own

sort of personal version of how they do it. You know, it's, even though it's a very black and white culture, I think people kind of participate in the way that works for them for the most part, you know, with it, there's, there's some gray culture, I think people kind of participate in the way that works for them for the most part, you know, within there's, there's some gray area, there's some sort of margin or threshold within which people are figuring things out for themselves. And I don't think that that's a very big margin. You know, I think that it's not like Judaism at all, but I think quietly people kind of live the life that they want to live. And that's one of my biggest qualms with religion is that, you know, on the books, you're expected to be

one thing and you're either that or you're not part of it at all. But really, you're your own person and you're living life the way that suits you and your family and your goals and whatever. And sometimes there, I mean, there always are gray areas in anything. So I think, you know, maybe that kind of leads to what drove me away from it really. Yeah. So it was sort of like the, the rigidity or, or the, the not acknowledging how people were sort of like choosing to live on their own. It's sort of like showing up one way publicly and then showing up a different way privately. Exactly. Yeah. And, and like you said, I don't think that's limited to any one particular tradition. No, no.

Yeah, it's one of the sort of like, you know, the cutting edges of faith is I think people are constantly grappling with that. But I'm curious when you walk away from that then, because I know it sounds like, you know, you're close to your family or close to your mom who was an artist. And, you know, it sounds like had a really to your family, you're close to your mom who was an artist, and it sounds

like had a really big influence on you. When you walk away from the tradition, did that also mean walking away from your family? Well, it did for me because I think in order to cope with leaving something that was such a big part of my life, I had to sort of walk away from everything as I knew it. And that resulted in a bit of a rebellion against the culture, my family, my parents, and of course the church. And New York was really key in that process for me. New York facilitates this idea, which I love, that you can do or be whatever you want. And that is so opposite of what Salt Lake City is. Salt Lake City and Mormonism, that culture is very much, this is what you should be. This is what you're geared towards. And this is what you will be if

you want to be happy. And I think that for me, I had to rebel against all that, which included my family a little bit in order to find this place where who I really am, the honest, pure version of me could thrive. And then later in life, you know, a couple years later, whatever things resolve themselves naturally. And my relationship with my family is spectacular. My parents, my dad, my mom, you know, they're great. And they're a huge part of my life and my practice even, but I think I had to rebel to get here. Yeah. It sounds like also you were a kid who found art really early in life. For you, did that feel like both a sort of like a blended, both a form of expression and also an outlet? Well, yeah. I mean, it's an interesting thing to use the word expression. I never really saw art

as an expression until my adult life. I think art was sort of like a hobby for me. And even, you know, into high school, I was always good at it. It was always very natural for me. I was always drawing and painting and doing creative things, but I didn't necessarily see it as me expressing who I was. Looking back, of course, it very much was, you know, but I didn't understand that at the time. It was sort of just like a pastime. And I even remember joking with one of my closest childhood friends.

He was a fly fisherman or is, and he would tell me that I didn't have any hobbies. I felt so like defensive, you know, because I was like, art is my hobby. You know, art is like this big part of my life, which is a hobby. And maybe art is not a hobby. I don't know. Now it's obviously my entire life. But anyway, to answer the question, I think that art was always a big part of my life, but it wasn't until college that I really

started to realize that art is a path to a professional life and to my future. Yeah. I mean, so you end up at BYU studying graphic design. So, and your intention with that was then get out and just basically enter the world of graphic design. Yeah. And I've always liked technology and computers. I'm really comfortable with computers and I love them from the Apple Mac plus, which I had when I was a kid. And so I, I sort of saw this merge of like, you can, you can be at a computer all day, which I thought was really cool. And you can do art on the computer and like it all sort of pointed at graphic design. And then there was also the component of you got to provide for a family, you got to have a career, you have to have some stability and all these things that probably is the voice of my dad in my head saying, you know, you could like grow up and be a man or whatever that means. So I think graphic design was the solution to all those things. And oddly, I actually don't love being at the computer as much as I did then.

So now I've sort of merged into a place where my career requires less time on the computer. Yeah, that's so interesting, right? It's sort of like graphic design is the socially and familially acceptable way to be an artist because there's a there's a clear path to sort of like a job trajectory and all this stuff and you're you know like your parents are like okay so like you know he can make a living you know he'll be safe yep he's gonna be okay yeah paycheck there right it, it's interesting as sort of like, that's the way that you get buy-in for, for the first step into the career. Well put. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you land from there and, and as you shared, you pretty much, it sounds like immediately head over to New York where you end up doing a graphic design work for Mac cosmetics for, I guess, a chunk of years, four or five,

six years, something like that. Six years. Yeah. Yeah. I want to talk to you about that, but also curious coming from your background, coming from BYU, then you land in New York city and it sounds like you had this vision of what it like was going to be for you. This amazing place, you know, this is the place that people go to both become themselves and express their art and do their thing. When you show up in New York City, does the experience that you're actually living, especially in the early days, match the dream that you thought you had in your head? I mean, it kind of does, to be honest with you. New York was so magnetic to me. And I came here for the first time when I was maybe 17 in high school. And my older sister went to Juilliard. She's a pianist. So I came to visit her with my parents.

And there was maybe a two-hour window where they wanted to take a nap or something. And I was like, oh, I've got some free time in New York by myself. And my dad was worried about my safety or whatever. And my mom was like, oh, he's 17. He can go out in the city on his own. And the first thing I went to find in New York was a fake ID. And I ended up, I think, canal street and i and i got one you know and there was like people trying to sell me fake rolexes and so you know at the time i didn't know where he was but i think i was on canal street but i i remember

feeling this like magnetic sort of like calling in a way that i had never felt. Like I had never experienced the feeling of like freedom and this solitude that I had never known. And I thought that it was so magical. And from that point forward, I was like, New Yorker bust. Like I will go there as soon as possible. And in a way, graphic design, when I was at BYU, graphic design was another sort of ticket to New York because that program that I was in had so many connections with design studios in New York City. And I saw it as sort of a stepping stone to get to my ultimate goal, which was New York. So to answer your question, when I got here, I felt like I had made it. This was the end all be all for me. And I could now

be whatever I wanted to be, which was a graphic designer, but B it was also the kind of human that I think I really was inside, which was not the human that I had to be in order to function in solid city. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, it does. I mean, so when you land here and you're kind of like, okay, clean slate, who do I want to be? What does that look like? I mean, beyond sort of like the career, you know, like what, just as a human being. As a human being. Yeah. Cause the career, I mean, that was, that was sort of like mapped out. And I think what was so special about New York to me was this liberation that I had found in knowing that I was by myself. Like, you know, that feeling

when you're alone and no one's, no one's watching, you can be on the streets in New York and have that feeling. And I don't really feel that anymore so much, but I felt that when I got here, even though you're surrounded by millions of people. And to me, that feeling was so liberating. So what I wanted to be was free. And looking back, it was free from all these constraints that had been applied to me, but I felt that freedom. I felt like I could dress the way I wanted to dress. I could wear my hair the way I wanted to wear it. And I started wearing eyeliner and I was wearing all black and I was listening to punk rock music. And these were things that in Utah, in Mormon culture,

potentially would have been looked down upon. If I was growing out my hair and dying it black and getting tattoos and wearing eyeliner, I would be looked at as scum. And that's how I felt. Maybe not, you know, but that's what I felt in my heart, you know? And so in New York, I, I was like, I can, I can do this. I can, I work for a makeup company. I can wear makeup and be punk rock and it, no one even cares, you know? And that was huge to me yeah that is one of the amazing blessings of new york city i think is that it almost doesn't matter who you are what you wear how you dress how you present yourself when you walk down the street nobody even bothers looking at you which for some people is actually like the opposite of what they want but it's sort of i think that's why a lot of celebrities end up living in new york city because they largely just don't even get bothered like people you know almost go out of their way to ignore the fact that they see them walking down the street.

Yeah. And it's, you know, it's like dressing in like a punk sort of goth style. Generally, you would think that people do that to be seen or to be noticed. Like it's screaming for attention. And I think that deep down it was me screaming for attention. But really I found free in knowing that I couldn't phase anyone. It doesn't matter what you do to your body or how you wear your hair. People just really do not care.

And that's something that's so special about New York. Yeah, no, I totally agree, which actually now makes me curious. I know. So you're basically saying, OK, I'm going to completely define myself by just the rules that I have in my head, by the way that I want to step into the world and be myself. And that includes a lot of sort of changes visually. So on your left forearm, you have a tattoo, which looks like it's sort of a very somber looking Lady Liberty leaning on a skull. Wow. I'm blown away that you... I'm so curious, especially the juxtaposition against your work. It just made me really curious what the story was behind that and maybe whether it's even tied into just really the conversation we're having right now. It totally is. When I moved to New York,

right when I moved, I was still going back to visit a lot. And there was a tattoo artist in Salt Lake City that I liked, and I was getting interested in tattoos. I didn't have many at the time. I had a couple of hidden ones and I wanted to get this tattoo sleeve on my arm. So I went to this artist in Salt Lake and I had told him, I had arranged with him that I was going to give him my sketchbook and have him like look through my drawings, my writing to understand a little bit about me. And I was going to give him my left arm that he could do whatever he wanted with. And he loved it because that's generally tattoo artists don't get that much creative liberty. I mean, generally people do not.

I'm an artist. I don't get that much creative liberty. So mean, generally people do not, I'm an artist. I don't get that much creative liberty. So I think he thought it was pretty huge. I thought it was pretty amazing because it was like, it turned into this special experience. And what the way the process worked is I went in and sat with him and he took a red, he had had my sketchbook for a week and he took a red Bic pen and he started drawing on my arm, just totally freehand, just sketching out ideas. And then he went back over it with a black pen. And what evolved was this piece and it's, you know, it's Lady Liberty and she's holding this skull and the skull is crying tears of blood

that are filling up this coffin and the torch of liberty is in the coffin. And this is really dark thing. And, and, and I love it because it's such a window into who I was then, you know, and there was, there's this, and there was this darkness and there's this like struggle in the piece. And there's also New York, there's Lady Liberty and this like idea of freedom and whether freedom is dying or, you know, like there's so much in this. And I love that you brought that up actually, because that was such a special tattoo. I mean, it is such a special tattoo.

Yeah. And I mean, it sounds like it's got like, it represents that tension of you sort of like emerging into this new space, saying goodbye, you know, like to something old at the same time, which involves grief, right? There's loss attached to that, but also emerging out of it. Yeah. I was curious about it because the moment I saw it, I was like, it's saying something, you know, and it felt like it tied into, you know, this transitional season for you. Wow. I mean, I marvel that you discovered that and I think it's great. And I still love this tattoo. You know, tattoos are such a stamp of time. And I love that I still feel so great about this tattoo.

Yeah, no, that's super cool. So you end up starting to build a life and a career in New York City, working by day as a graphic designer, I guess eventually a creative director at MAC Cosmetics, which is kind of interesting because when you're heading to New York City and you're like, okay, I'm going to enter the world of graphic design. And New York is this playground of opportunity with so many different places that you could drop into. Curious about the decision behind Mac Cosmetics. Well, a big part of it was that there's a network of graphic design graduates from BYU, graphic design alumni. And the easiest way to get a job is with someone that you know. And I happen to know two BYU graduates who were already working at Mac. Mac wasn't my dream job

per se at the time. And I was sending out my book to different studios and agencies and a couple of in-house creative departments. Mac was one of them. And they were the first one to respond. And they reached out and brought me on for a freelance project. And the project went really well. It was this book. It was called The trend book. And the book is basically like a recap of all the makeup trends, which were done backstage at fashion week. And I was so like enamored with this world of fashion and makeup. And it wasn't even about like lipstick or makeup as much as it was about this scene of like these innovative people that are making clothes and doing all these beautiful, colorful, creative things. And I was able to capture it all in the design of this book. And the creative director loved the piece that I did and they

offered me a job. So that's kind of how I got there. Yeah. So are you showing up then at MAC Cosmetics every day as the sort of like the new goth designer in-house? Well, it wasn't the whole eyeliner, like punk rock look took time. So in the beginning, I still had this sort of like Utah urban outfitters. Like I had bleach blonde hair and this is 2005, you know? And so like, I think that the transition of me, like turning into this sort of punk rock identity took a couple of years. And think Mac facilitated that I mean one thing that's very noteworthy about Mac is the dress code and you have to wear black you know the artists in the store wear black but also in the corporate offices you have to wear all black so that can

be very corporate and professional but it can also be very punk rock so I was wearing black because it was my it was required of me in my job but i was sort of spinning it in a way that was rock and roll and it kind of evolved over time and then like i had eyeliners in my hands every day because i'm working with makeup and you know next thing i know i'm like putting on the eyeliner and i'm like this looks awesome you know so it kind of just happened naturally yeah no that's super cool um it's it's just the evolution of you doing the thing that you're here to do The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever,

making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.

What I mean, so you're there and building a career, right? But also within the constraints of a big brand, you know, and it sounds like you really liked it. You learned a ton and you're having a lot of fun and still, and I've seen this with so many artists and so many designers is that, you know, you're still showing up every day and you're getting a paycheck to effectively do the work that builds another brand. At some point, it sounds like that wasn't enough for you. I mean, it's the age old story, you know, just like you said, and that's exactly what happened. I, I was doing a lot of great work and loving it. I mean, really enjoying the work that I was doing.

I was working with a couple of great people. I had a, you know, I was growing up a little bit, became an art director. I hired a junior designer that was working with me. He's now one of my best friends ever. And, you know, we, we worked together hand in hand on all these great projects. Like I went to Paris and I was working with Alexander McQueen and doing all these amazing things at the time that I thought were so cool. And they were, but over the, over the years, I started to feel like my name's not on this. Like I'm doing this for someone else. And that really started to get under my skin. I think I began to itch for my name to go at the bottom of the page, you know?

And one of the things that kind of blew my mind as an art director is that, you know, I began hiring illustrators and artists to do these collaborations with Mac. And I would see the invoices and like the contracts. is that, you know, I began hiring illustrators and artists to do these collaborations with Mac. And I would see the invoices and like the contracts. And I'm looking at, you know, like we'll have a meeting and this illustrator comes in and we're like, oh, we need you to do 10 illustrations for this project. Here's the fee and here's what it looks like. And I'm pulling references, like here's sort of the direction I want you to go with these illustrations. And meanwhile, I'm like, I could do these damn things. Like, why am I not doing this work? And then also dying slowly inside, knowing how much money the illustrator is getting

paid. And I'm like, but I'm sitting here like begging for a couple thousand dollars more each year in my salary. And like, why I'm on the wrong side of this seat here, you know? And so that was a big driving force in me leaving and going out on my own because I knew that I could be doing the kind of work that I was hiring people to do, um, as contractors. And I want it to be that. Yeah. I mean, when you think, when, when you start to think about that transition, you know, stepping away from big companies, solid paycheck, you know, in an industry where there's,

you know, you can keep rising up, you can keep certainly building your career within, did you have any have any sense of fear around that, around saying, let me step out into the abyss? Because you're also, as you're sitting there interviewing and hiring all of these outside illustrators and other people, the universe of freelancers, especially in New York City, is vast. It's wide and deep. And because it's the place that people come to make it, it's good, really good. I'm curious whether in the back of your mind, as you're making this decision, there's any fear associated with that process. There was fear. The one person that enabled me to sort of get through that fear was one of my close friends, this guy, Trevor, who's a

photographer and he shoots fashion and beauty and that kind of stuff. And we had done a few little projects together and we ended up hanging out a lot and becoming really close friends. And I watched him live this life that I dreamed of, which was like, you know, I'm in Soho corporate office, you know, I'm like running out to try and get, grab a sandwich midday and like rush back to my next meeting. And here's Trevor. He's like hanging out, walking his dog, like having a beer in the middle of the day. Like he's doing whatever he wants, like living his life as I perceived it, you know? And I see, I would see all these people out in Soho in the middle of the day, just like hanging out. And I had this, I always had this, like, how do you get that? Like,

how do you just like hang out in Soho in the middle of the day and not have to be at this corporate, you know? And so Trevor sort of gave me the courage to do it because I could see that it was, if he could do it, that it was a real thing. It wasn't just these like generic people that I didn't know. It was someone that I actually watched and, you know, I knew that it was, if he could do it, I could do it. And so I did have fear, but I had I think I had more courage to do it. And I think it was kind of stoic to like looking back, you know, 10 years ago, just announcing that I'm quitting my job and I don't know what's next. Like, that's kind of crazy. No matter when or how you do that, it's kind of crazy.

And so I think there is some sort of like stoic, like I just throw it all in the wind and see what happens. And when you're young, you can do that a lot easier. I didn't really have any responsibilities and I was single and like, I, you know, it just sort of fell into place. I don't know now if I'd have that courage. Right. It's like the time to do it is then, um, you know, because what's the worst case scenario.

So it doesn't work. You still have your chops and your competence and your skills and your relationships. And then go find another job. Totally. Yeah. And that's what I told myself, you know, and, oh, someone had told me you need to have six months worth of savings money. You know, you got to be able to live for six months. And I had that.

And so I, I sort of knew like, well, after six months, if I've done nothing and I'm out of money, I'll take my portfolio and shop it around and I'll get a job. I can always do that. Yeah. So did you make a clean break when you left or was it like a gradual bill where you're freelancing on the side? Yeah. I mean, I was doing a lot of freelance work. I think that that's the other thing that gave me the confidence to do it is that I was having a lot of inquiries. I had sort of established enough of a network that people knew what I was up to. And so I felt like I could jump and dive straight into some, some new work, but it wasn't nearly as much as I thought it was. You know, I, I did have a clean break and I, I gave three months notice, which I think was huge. Like I told my creative director, I was like, I'm going to go in a couple of months. And we

started working towards what that would look like. And I helped hire the person to replace me. And, you know, it was great. And the way I left and I thought I was just going to be super busy, but I wasn't, I mean, just like everyone, as soon as you go freelance and you have a couple of projects and they sort of end and then you're like, Oh, let's go find clients. Like, what do I do now? Yeah. Were you freaking out at all when that happened or were you just kind of like, it'll, it'll work. I was was kind of freaking out and the way that i got through that was doing freelance art direction for agencies like i would get booked on like a pitch and i'd go work you know night and day with an agency for like two weeks straight

and then i would have a little bit of like a blanket or a cushion to kind of get me through the next month and agency fees are high you know agency, agency, um, agencies pay well. So I could kind of use that to supplement my illustration and art projects. And I ended up doing that for about five years. Yeah. Um, which I think is such a common course for so many people. It's sort of like, you know, it's like one for me, one for the studio model. So it's sort of like, you know, it's like that, that side of it is funding this side of it. It sounds like though they're, they're, they're starting to emerge a bit of a divide also between, okay, so the graphic design is a client work, but it sounds like you're focusing not just

on your own private design work, but also sort of like switching and saying, okay, so the stuff that I'm just kind of doing for myself right now is more capital A art. Not that I don't think graphic design is art. I happen to be a true believer. But it sounds like you were making this distinction and that there was something that you wanted to do that you kind of had to do on the side, not as part of a commission piece or a paid piece or a commercial type of arrangement. Yeah. I mean, that's true. And I, while graphic design is totally an art, I think that there are other ways, this brings up the expression bit of it. I think there are other ways that I needed to express myself. And I also have learned,

you know, over the past five or six years, as I've really like dived into spray painting, I've learned how much it means to me and how important it is to me to be using my hands. And that's why I say I don't sit at the computer as much. Like, first of all, when I say using my hands, I do not mean using a mouse or a keyboard. Like, I mean like getting your hands dirty, like painting, drawing, you know, ripping, whatever you're doing,

like doing something active with your hands. For me, that's really huge. And I think it's less about creation and more about the catharsis and, you know, the sort of meditative place that I go when I'm spraying or painting and I need that. So I've learned, I've learned that I needed that past, you know, five or six years. And now I realize how crucial that is for me. So I'm able to kind of keep the balance of computer and spraying and painting. But at the time, I think that what was kind of burning

inside of me was that I needed that. I needed that meditative part of my process and graphic design wasn't cutting it. Yeah. And it sounds like you're the one who needed control over what would be created on that side of it also. Yeah. It's really interesting. I think our producer once said that the person whose name I bring up the most on the podcast is Milton Glaser. And there's a reason for it because I so gravitate to who he was as a person and to the work that he did. But remember when in the very beginning of Good Life Project, we were filming, we went to his studio in New York and he showed us around before we sat down for a conversation. And he had a team

of people sitting in front of computers, but he told me he never touched the computer himself. He was a very physical, tactile oriented person. And even the work that he was doing on a computer who kind of direct people what to do, and they would work on the computer because he felt like as much as it enabled creativity, it also constrained it too much for him because you would only think about what is this machine capable of doing rather than what's in my head that needs to get out. So I thought it was really interesting that he had that lens, but he also really stayed fiercely in the physical creation domain. And he passed away earlier this year at 91. He was still making art. Yeah.

It's like right up until the last minute. Right. I mean, which is really stunning. But that physical creative process, there's something primal about it that I think I get this feeling that even people who don't label themselves artists, so much work has become so digital that I feel like we're missing it. I feel like we're, we're almost mourning it. So it's interesting that you felt something inside of you that said, I need to reclaim this. Yeah. And you know, it's easy for me to,

to say that in retrospect, like at the time I didn't know that that's what I needed. I, so I, now I, now that I know that I've like, I've discovered that, but at the time I didn't really, there wasn't like a, you need to pick up a paintbrush, Jason. Like it was more that I think being at the computer and doing graphic design or art direction wasn't fulfilling to me. And I think that is because for me, art direction is more a process of finding reference imagery, finding ideas, finding inspiration, and then serving it to a client or arranging it or organizing it for clients. And to me, it's less, I think it's less like expressive. It's less inventive. You know, like in the beginning when you're doing graphic design, you're still like drawing pictures. It's

like you're doing a logo or something. The logo you don't find on the internet. You've got to find it in your heart and draw it onto the page, whether that's using a mouse or a pen, it doesn't matter. You've got to invent something, right? But as you grow up in the design world, you become an art director and an art director is someone really who's just a manager. You know, you're managing images and assets.

And that to me was not at all creative. So with very much respect to all art directors out there, to me, that didn't feel like the creative path that I needed to be on. Yeah, it wasn't your jam. You brought up spray paint or aerosol paint, as the finer artists like to call it. That's amazing. I love the reframing around it these days. But I'm curious, and so much of your work now, I know you go back and forth a fair amount between digital and also spray paint also on big outdoor work. What draws you to that?

I mean, because you could have gone a lot of different directions. You had the chops, you had the training, you had the skill with a lot of different medium, a lot of different tools. What makes you look at spray paint and makes your heart say, huh, I need to lean into this? Well, I mean, that's a great question. And it's funny that you said, what makes your heart saying, right? Spray painting for me is very cathartic for one. It's very immediate, which I think satisfies the part of me that loves the graphics. I love working digitally because there's an immediacy to the creation

of it. There's nothing painstaking about working digitally because if you want to color something in, it's immediate. You touch, tap, drag. And with spray paint, the immediacy is similar because it doesn't take time to fill in a color or to paint paint a line. It's, it's so, it moves so quickly. And my process is very, it's a very quick moving process. Like I don't belabor and think, and, you know, I kind of just like let myself into the lines and the shapes and, you know, my work is very organic. I don't like geometric, hard angled lines and shapes. I like things that are very flowing and whimsical and, and that feel very like not constrained, that feel very free. And spray paint really facilitates that because you have to move.

Once you press the button, the paint comes out. You can't just sit there and think about what you're doing. You have to immediately move. And for me, that like helps the process like move in a way that takes me to another place, you know, and for, for, I keep saying like it's cathartic or meditative because as the paint comes out and you have to keep moving your hands and your body, this dance that I'm doing, I feel like when it's all done, I, I've like lost myself for hours. And that is the most magical place that you can be in my opinion. And I think that's what artists love. They love this, you know, all artists would, would have their own way to say it, but this, this, this place you get to where you forget about time,

forget about email, forget about everything and just something happens. And that's amazing. So spray paint is the tool that does that for me ah that's so cool i mean it's because i never really thought about the the notion that it's time limited like the minute that you hit the button you have to be in motion and you can't stop just because you feel like taking a break you know you stop when it's it's the right time to stop to make things work so your body is like perpetually flowing and at the same time you have to kind of hyper present in the process so it's like this this almost like a forced mind body integrated meditation that also leads not just to a flow state but to something really cool and creative at the back end which

is pretty amazing yeah it's so cool and then one of the other things that I love about spray paint is the ability to blend color. I love that with the spray, you can blend colors so seamlessly. And I've always loved gradients on a computer and the gradient blending process that I do with spray paint results in something very similar to what I do with gradients on the iPad and on the computer. And I just feel like there's a magic to it. You know, like you can take a red and a blue and you blend them together and you get these shades of purple and you didn't choose the purple.

The purple is the result, you know? And I think that's something kind of special. And I get it with spray paint and I get it with digital art. And so I go back and forth between the two. Yeah, it's funny because I think when a lot of people hear, okay, so you're using literal cans of spray paint, the immediate reaction, if you're not familiar with sort of like where, especially street art has gone these days with spray paint is, well, okay, kind of like graffiti, it's pretty basic, you know, like how much control or granularity or fine art can you really be doing

with a can of spray paint? But then when you actually look at what you do, at your work, the murals that you now have all over the country, all over the world, the work of so many incredible street artists, it's mind blowing when you look at the creations. I remember back in 2012, there used to be a place in New York City. I'm sure you know it, Five Points, which was this giant old, it's like a 200,000 square foot abandoned warehouse. And this guy, Mirrors Juan, which was like this giant old, it's like a 200,000 square foot abandoned warehouse. And this guy mirrors one who was a classic street artist, takes it over, you know, becomes the curator of the place and invites the best street artists and graffiti artists from the world to come and just constantly paint the walls that are changing all the time.

And remember going there and actually mirrors toward us around and give us a history of it also. And then there are people painting as we're going and I'm looking at what they're doing. And I was not only mesmerized by the process, like you said, it was like watching somebody do Tai Chi with a spray can in their hand. Totally. But then you step back and you kind of have to step back because the pieces were so big and you look at what they're doing and it is stunning works of art. Like absolutely mind blowing in their creativity, their Chris Ellis, who used to go by Days, who would tag Subways and send them from the Bronx down and out to Brooklyn. Or say Adams, who started out around the same time and then ends up being a graphic designer, designs a Beastie Boy logo and is in-house at Def Jam for like 20 years. And everyone's sort of come at it from a different point.

And what's interesting too is there's been an interesting evolution. Like these guys, including you, have sort of like started from a certain place and taken street art or what a lot of people in the early days viewed as evangelism and turned it into something really stunning and true fine art. But there's also a really interesting distinction between them and you, which is they came up from the street. They were doing this in their neighborhood and they were running from the cops. They're fine artists now and have gallery shows and commissions, but you guys came from a profoundly different place. So when you start taking your spray painting chops and you take

it to the street and you're starting to get a lot of attention because your work is big and bold and colorful and amazing, I'm wondering whether there were any cultural conflicts that arose also with sort of like some of the old school street artists, especially in New York City. Wow. I mean, that is such a great question. I have faced, I have encountered a little bit of friction with some of those guys. The old school graffiti artists in New York City, I think deserve a shout out. They really paved the way for people like me to show up and legally paint colorful things on walls. Like you said, it was seen as vandalism.

And I mean, there still is a vandal squad out like chasing down these guys who are painting the trains and stuff but the guys who are who are out there painting the trains and like getting art up on the walls you know at night or whenever like they they really have sort of blazed this trail that has enabled me to show up with my cans of paint and put live life colorfully on a wall. So I think they deserve a shout, you know, and a thank you. The friction that I've encountered has mostly been from local guys who I think maybe are less like established graffiti artists. Maybe they're more kind of tagger types. And to be completely honest with you, I think maybe it's driven by a little bit of envy and, you know, to see someone sort of enter the game and find success in getting more and more murals and walls, I think that could be frustrating for someone who's trying to get more walls, trying to do more work, paint more. But I haven't had tons of it.

It's been just a little bit of it. And I try to treat the situation with kindness and respect. And I try to remind everyone know, remind everyone, including myself, that this is a privilege that I have, that I can go out and paint murals. And I, and a lot of the guys have, have had to run from the cops. I don't run from the cops, you know, I don't do illegal stuff, but if someone hadn't done illegal stuff, then I wouldn't be here doing this. So, but generally, and to answer your question, generally everything that I've done has been pretty welcomed. And some of the old school guys have been really and to answer your question, generally everything that I've done has been pretty welcomed.

And some of the old school guys, um, have been really cool to me and have, you know, given me a high five or a shout and, and told me that to keep it up or, you know, there's a, there's a artist that I love named Hectad and he's an old school graffiti, um, writer in New York city. All over the city. All over. Yeah. He's all over.

And, you know, he, he's such a big supporter. He's always showing me love. And it's guys like him that sort of make me feel confident that I can be out there amongst them doing this. Yeah. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are.

So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca mayday mayday we've been compromised the pilot's a hitman i knew you were gonna be fun on january 24th tell me how to fly this thing mark walberg you know what's the difference between me and you you're gonna die don't shoot if we need them y'all need a pilot flight risk the apple watch series 10 is here

it has the biggest display ever It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. I mean, when you start to also build and you start to get walls around the city, and in case it's not obvious because we didn't actually just blatantly state this,

as you're doing your own work and your own art and freelancing on the side and really getting into spray paint, the logical medium for spray paint, the only one is walls, outside is murals. And you start doing bigger and bigger walls around the city. It's interesting because when you step out on your own also, and you're working with a fairly new medium, and you now no longer have the protection of a big brand where you're doing work and you're kind of hidden and it's just them, the notion of developing a distinct voice and a distinct style becomes really important. I'm wondering for you, especially coming from a graphic design background where there's sort of a methodology to doing that, how you approach doing that. Because when I look at, you start posting your work, not just on murals on walls, but on Instagram,

your very first post is actually March 25th, 2014. And if you look at that post, and then you watch the evolution of what you posted over the last six and a half years, there's a really distinct and powerful evolution of your voice and your style and sort of like the way that you're bringing yourself to the work. And I'm curious what your internal process was around that, whether it was intentional, whether it just sort of evolved in a really organic way or some blend. Well, I think it's interesting to note that the process that a designer uses is sort of like a distinctive thing. And I was very attached to that process for a long time. And I think I've walked away from it a little bit, but I think that my work coming out of Mac was very calculated and driven by trend. And I was very aware of what was happening in the city and

with other designers and the fashion industry and graphic trends and all these things. And I was using all those things to guide my work. And as a designer working in house for a brand like Mac, it's important that you use those things in the work. It's very trend driven. And so you have to be doing work that looks current. Even like the typographic decisions that a designer makes are often inspired by what's current. It's less inspired by what's in your heart or what you're trying to communicate. So I was doing that for a long time. And, and I also had this sort of like cool kid art, like dream, like I wanted to do this like dark edgy, you know, work that reflected the stuff that like the music that I was listening to. And, you know, I'm listening to like punk rock kind of music and I wanted to make art that fit that.

But over time, I think I've learned that that's not really who I am. You know, and also I don't, I don't necessarily need to be doing work that I think is cool. I don't need to be doing work that the audience is going to think is cool. I need to be doing what's in my heart. And so long story short, over the past 10 years, I think I've evolved to understanding who I really am and what I want to say and then how to visualize that. So if you look back through my, you know, through time, like through my work, it's, you can see that my work evolving away from like the cool kid work that I wanted to do that I thought looked cool and turning into the visual representation of what I am thinking and feeling in my heart. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And when you do look at the early work, at least the stuff that you've shared publicly, it's much edgier.

And it also does really match a certain moment in New York City. You saw a lot of similar stuff, whereas when you look at what you're doing now, it's definitely less edgy in terms of trying to be intentionally edgy. It's a really distinct and unusual style that you don't see anywhere else. Your voice is different. Your style is different. You could sign it. That's great. But even if you didn't put your name on it, everyone will see your work now. And if you know who you are and you know your work, you know it's Jason's work. Yeah. Well, thank you. That's huge. Yeah. Which is different than I think what I was seeing you doing in the early days. And I think it's a huge evolution, which makes me curious also.

I think a lot of times you look at the evolution of a voice and a style as an artist as trying to figure out, okay, so this is how I want to express myself. But it sounds like also for you, you were the process of creation. And tell me if this lands with you but it sounds like the process of creation was almost your way of feeling into who you as an individual and an artist wanted to be um and actually not even want to be but who you actually were so it was less about you know part of it was the you know changing the way that you expressed yourself but also part of it was the, you know, changing the way that you expressed yourself, but also part of it was, it's like, well, let me run a series of actual artistic experiments to help me tell me who I actually am. Yeah. That's so beautifully put. I think that that applies to, to many creators. The process of creating is really a process of discovering,

you know, you're, you're, we're calling it expression, but it's actually like, you're trying to figure out who you are, what you like, you know, and for me, like what I want to say. So yeah, that's, you know, you hit the nail on the head. That's exactly what it is. And I have sort of circled back to the person that maybe I was programmed for lack of a better way to say it to be, you know, I, sometimes I joke, I'm like, I'm just a conservative guy, you know, and I don't look conservative at all, actually. Like, I think that the way that I like to dress and like, I have lots of tattoos and everything. I don't think I look very conservative, but actually in my heart, like I'm, I'm a pretty like nice, all like all American guy, you know, and I was, I was raised in a very sensible, conservative place, like we talked about.

I have a stable family. And all signs sort of pointed towards me just being a generic guy who wears dockers and parts his hair on the side and looks sensible. But deep down, I think there's a big part of me who is a sensible guy. I'm very proud of my values. And I was raised to believe it's family first and to be honest and have integrity and all these things that are my values that maybe I had to walk away from or reject to sort of figure out which ones I wanted to keep. It's like I almost wanted to throw everything out on the table and be like, don't assign any of this shit to me. I'll pick and

choose what's really me. And then as it turns out, a lot of the things were right, you know? Yeah. The benefit of time, right? Totally. Totally. Yeah. You know, what's interesting also is that, you know, some of the stuff that has come out of it is your work in recent years is really heavily message focused, you know, to the extent where, you know, the words are actually right in the piece, you know? So one of the things that's in a lot of your work, not all of it, but a lot of it is rather than standing in front of a, you know, a wall and saying, huh, I wonder what this means. You're really front and center. You're like, no, here are the words, here's the language I'm going

to tell you, you know? And it's almost always based around kindness, humility, love, a lot of love, that you have this beautiful, big, bold heart, which is sort of like this icon that appears in so much of your work. I'm curious about that decision because it feels like the decision to actually have the words be the center of so much of your work was really intentional. Interestingly enough, the piece you put up, I don't know, I feel like it was like 2018 ish in the Bronx, which is really simple. Didn't have any words is one of my favorite pieces from you, which is the, you know, it was a peace sign and heart and peace and love. Yeah. And I was like, huh, this is really interesting because I love all of your work. This is one of the few things I've seen that doesn't have any words in it.

And I was really deeply moved by it. So I'm curious what your thought process is around it. Well, that's cool. I mean, it's a bummer that piece is gone, first of all. That building kind of got taken over. But that piece, it was sort of about the symbols. And this is the graphic designer in me. You know, I wanted to communicate. It was peace and love is the message.

And my work is very and has become extremely message driven. But I wanted to convey the message without actually writing it. And a lot of that choice was made because I didn't have a lot of time. I had only had that day to do it. I had to drive up there and crank it out. And I just had that little spot on the wall. And so it wasn't enough room or time to actually put the full message. So I had to like play graphic designer and I'm like, great,

I'll do the symbol of the peace hand, you know, I'll do the ampersand, you know, the and sign, and then I'll do the heart. And that will get the message across. And it totally did. And it's one of my favorites too, because I love the simplicity of it. And it was also really fun to paint because before then, I don't know if I had done a lot of symbols. I mean, I put the heart in a lot of my stuff because of what it represents to me, but I'd done so many letters and words and they're

time consuming to paint. So for me, it was kind of like, I just whipped this thing out, you know, very like graffiti artist style. Like, you know, I'm just cranking this thing out in a matter of a couple hours. And looking back, I loved it. I should do more of it. But the truth is, I love the message. I love the messages because I think it's really special that you can put something on the wall that's so cerebral, live life colorfully, or spread love. And maybe the colors of the design capture the people, but the colors don't even matter. The design doesn't even matter because the words resonate with the viewer and the piece is successful because of that resonance. And I love that. Yeah. No, I think it's super cool. I had the chance to sit down with Peter Tunney not long ago, who is one of the OGs putting massive words around New York City. Giant billboard, City of Dreams, and the word gratitude.

And a lot of really positive, there's a lot of really interesting similarities except stylistically, he's almost the exact opposite of you. He does big, jagged, sharp angle letters and stuff like this and layers and layers and layers and layers of scrapbook collage, sort of like cutouts and stuff like that. And yet you both have these really heavily message-driven pieces with positive words, almost affirmations. I asked him, I was like, how much of these words are you inviting the world to interact with them and adopt them? And how much of this is you reminding how you want to be in the world?

I was curious how you would answer that. Well, half of it, at least half of it is just for me. You know, I put the message or the words that I need to hear or that I want to hear and I, you know, post them on Instagram or put them on a wall and share them with people. But I think it's pretty universal stuff, but it's the stuff that I need. You know, half the things that I write or that I want to say, I'm just saying to myself. So I think that holds true for probably a lot of artists, especially who do messages.

But I think the nice thing about doing something positive, positive words, positive affirmations, even if it is all for me, other people like it and it resonates with them too. So it's kind of a win-win. Yeah, that makes sense. You know, as we move through the year, there's still a lot that we all have to grapple with, a lot that we have to reckon with, and you're still doing incredible work. Behind the scenes this whole year, you're working on a book. Yes. Which is interesting to me because

everything that you've done has been really, really public, But working on a book is different. It's almost cerebral. It's quiet. It's private, even though what's in it is big and bold and beautiful. Why a book? And what was the experience like for you? Well, I mean, behind the scenes, I have been working on the book for a couple of years. And it has been an interesting thing because I'm used to talking about what I'm up to. I'm used to sharing it. I'm used to my work being very quick and immediate. And like, you know, I, I work very swiftly. I love the immediacy of the spray paint, like all these things that I'm used to. And also being watched while you work and being watched, which I love. I love it. The performance part of it, you know? So the, the process was really interesting. The way that the book came to be is very not standard.

And it all began, this is sort of a long story, but I'll tell it quickly. It began with the mural that I painted that says, Live Life Colorfully. And that mural was in Chelsea on 16th and 6th Avenue, if you live in New York. And it's no longer there, unfortunately. But after I painted that mural, shortly after, a literary agent walked by it, saw it, and took a picture and sent it to me and said, would you ever consider doing a book? And this was a couple of years ago. And I was like, I mean, yes. I'm kind of a yes person. And so I was like, wow, yeah, I know I haven't thought about doing a book, but I would love to think about it. Let's talk about it. So we had a conversation and at the time, the agent didn't know as much about my work. And I think maybe the thought was,

would it be an art book or something? And I don't think I'm that guy yet. Maybe someday I'll have a body of work that would support a book like that. But we didn't really click on what this potential book would be. So we kind of left it at, let's go back to the drawing board. If you want to do a book, I'm here to help you. Why don't you think about some ideas and come back to me?

So I spent about six months sort of generating ideas of what I thought a book could be. And I went back and met up with the agent and we talked through several of my ideas and we sort of merged a couple of them into the idea for the book. And then at that point, the process is you go create a pitch presentation to send out to the publisher. So I did that. That took another, you know, six months or whatever, took all this time back and forth with the agent. And then finally it was at a place where we could go send it out.

And we did and got a, got a book deal with Chronicle and, um, you know, here we are. And so from getting the book deal to actually handing over the finished, you know, set of pages, that was a long process for me as well. And I'm juggling doing my paid work and my clients and my murals and everything and then trying to write. And I'm not a writer. I mean, I think that I'm actually a decent writer when it comes to generating captions for my work and stuff like that. But I don't really think of myself as a writer. So to write a book that has a cohesive voice and a point of view, but that's like pithy and easy to understand. And like there was all these challenges that I felt like I was facing as I put together

this book, but it came together. I'm super proud of it. And I think that it really does like pull a lot of interesting new little tidbits out of my body of messaging. So anyway, that's sort of how it came to be. And I'm now I'm very thankful that it's done and I'm very excited that it's about to happen. Yeah. It's almost like the experience of it is when you flip through, it's almost like, okay, so I feel almost like I've stepped into another

block of New York City. I've seen another piece of work, but now you're standing next to me and just taking a couple of minutes to share a bit about what was going on and what's behind the piece. And it's like, I almost walked to the next block and here's another piece. And you're kind of coming with me saying, and this is what I think about this. This is what was in my mind. Interesting. Yeah. It's almost like you're sort of going for a walk with you. But it was also interesting for me because as you've shared, you love immediacy and a book takes brutally long for somebody who can paint a piece on a wall in a day right now. But what's also interesting is that street art, as much as you love it, and even when you have

permission to do it, and sometimes you're even paid to do it, is ethereal by definition. Even if nobody comes and takes it down or takes the building down, it's going to weather, it's going to wear, it's going to be gone at some point. And a book is a book, you know, a book, once it's in print, it lasts, it's there. Yeah. It stands the test of times forever. Yeah. And, and I wonder how you feel about that. Well, I love it because it's different. You know, I think that there's something really great about that. The difficult thing about, permanent work is that inevitably, you're going to look back and feel critical of it. And that's with any work.

I'll walk back past a mural that I painted a month ago, and I'll be like, well, I should have done that differently. Or I'll look at a mural that I painted three years ago. I just drove by one yesterday that I did in the city, and I forgot that I had even done it. And I saw another artist that I know who forgot that I'd even done it and I saw another artist that I know who's painting right next to it and I saw the old piece and I was like I wish somebody would just take that over and like bomb it you know because I hate it it's

awful it's so not reflective of what I can do now and like that feeling is something is an inevitable feeling that I will have and people have I I think that that's, that might become the challenge of having the book. I think that in a year or, I mean, I hope in a long time that I look at the book and I'm like, eh, I would have done this differently. But the beauty of that feeling is that you can spin it, you know, and I'm good at spinning that to drive, you know, to motivate for the next thing. So down the road, I can look at the book and be like, eh, and then I can say, and now I'm going to do a new one because I can do it better or I can do it differently or have a new message or whatever. Yeah. And also it's a social object, right? It's something that people

can share and pass from hand to hand, just the way that you love the physical process of creation, having a physical social object, I think is powerful. It affects people differently. This feels like a good place for us to come full circle in our conversation as well. So sitting here in this container of Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? Well, I guess it would be appropriate for me to say that to live a good life, you must live life colorfully. But I think what that means to me is living a life that's honest, meaning you're honest with yourself. You're honest about what you need, about what and who you are, and about what you want. And I think it's living in tune with those things, living in tune with what, who you really are, who you really want to be and in living in the way that's driving you

towards your goals and the goals are aligned with who you want and who you are and who you want to be. And so I think the balance of those things is a colorful life and it is a good life. I think that's easy to say. I think all those things are really hard to do. So that's the challenge. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that

will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at sparkotype.com. That's S-P-A-R-K-E-T-Y-P-E.com or just click the link in the show notes. And of course, if you haven't already done so, be sure to click on the subscribe button in your listening app so you never miss an episode. And then share, share the love. If there's something that you've heard in this episode that you would love to turn into a conversation,

share it with people and have that conversation. Because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold. See you next time. We'll be right back. here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.