Good Life Project - Location Independence, Freedom and the Good Life with Natalie Sisson

Episode Date: February 25, 2015

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Because nobody really thinks about the fact that when you go home and you've changed and you've had all these experiences from even just living in another city or traveling the world, you are a totally different person. And you go back to a world that was the world that you lived in and everybody's doing often, it seems, the exact same thing they were doing. And you suddenly can't relate. Sometimes people make these snap judgments about who you are based on, and maybe the people you run with, the sort of the field that you're in. Sometimes they're right. A lot of times they're right. Sometimes they're dead wrong. And that's exactly what happened with me and today's guest. In fact, she's been a friend of mine for a number of years. And when she approached me about being on the podcast, I initially said no. Truth is, I actually really did not understand what she was all about.

And that was my bad. And when I said no, instead of saying, okay, that's cool, she pushed back and in a good way. And she wanted to have the conversation around what she was really about and my misconception. We get into that in the beginning of the podcast and the concept of how we can really misread what's going on. And then we dive into her pretty awesome journey and find out how she's been able to travel the world and do some amazing things and build an extraordinary

career at the same time. I'm Jonathan Fields. This is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum.

Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg.

You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. So, let's talk about this because this is kind of interesting. Flight Risk. I was like, Jon, Jon, no. Totally unintentional. Actually, because we had a conversation about that later, right? We did. Because you felt like really snubbed.

And I was like, no, I'm just a raging introvert. And when I'm not speaking, I'm just like, I run for the hills. Well, you were actually in the zone. You were heading off to speak. Oh, okay. Yes. And so now I get it. Actually, it was Blog World.

Oh, is that where I was? Yes. And you were speaking with Leo Babada, I think. And you about another raging intro mindful and stuff yes and i was like john no okay missed him again i know i apologized before but i'm sorry again um but this is kind of interesting right because we were you had we had a conversation a while back and you're like hey i'm doing this i'm up to this and you know like I'd love to come and be a guest in here. I'm like, I love you, but I'm not so sure. Um, and, and I thought the conversation that kind of like followed, um, or the beginning of that, we began a conversation that made me open up and say, well, this is actually interesting. And I think the conversation

that we started to have about why I was resistant is actually a conversation that needs fleshing out. Um, love to do that. And so, so you want to, you want to kind of explore it a little bit or start? Yeah, I'd love to, because I gave a passionate response and I was so thankful for your response to it. Yeah. So tell, tell me what went down here. Tell, tell everyone what went down here.

You know, there's in this world of digital nomads and location independent and online marketing, there's just a ton of people who are copying everybody and it's become really highly saturated. And that's kind of what I said to you. I'm like, I'm like, you can't hear. I'm like, look, I love you. You're a great person, but I kind of feel like we've done the story over and over. Yeah. And I was like, true. Like, I totally agreed with you, but I didn't feel that I fitted in with those people. And maybe that's like some sort of vision that I have of myself, but I really feel that I've been more on a quest to actually, how do you live a life of freedom and make a business fit in around that? And I think a lot of the people,

even though I love them, who you were talking about, I didn't feel they were maybe living that truly. They were working so hard and they were talking about all these things, but they weren't living it. And I feel I do that. I work really hard at having more freedom. Right. But I like that you push back on it. Cause I feel that that's actually a lot of people have that perspective right now. They're like, who isn't coaching somebody how to be location independent or live the dream and all that stuff. And I don't feel like I stand for that. Yeah. And that was, and I was like, huh, okay, well, let me, let me explore this a little bit deeper. But, but you know, part of it was, was, and we have to, this is a touchy conversation, especially for you and me, because we live in a world where there's a lot of this message wrapped around us. And a lot of it is coming versus like, this is the brand that I'm putting forth. You know, how much, how much, even if there are sort of public proclamation, so one of

the big things people like location independent living, right? So like, which is kind of funny for me, because I'm like, I don't want to be location independent. I have, I mean, I have so many friends who like, oh, the freedom that I get. And I'm like, you're living my biggest nightmare right now. I love you dearly, but I want nothing to do with the way that you're living your life right now. To me, that's not freedom. It's the exact opposite. I'm somebody who's rooted in ritual.

I'm rooted in routine. And I love having roots. So I guess part of it is the idea of people sort of like living the fact of what they're promoting is a life filled with freedom and all this other stuff. But the reality of the emotional state, the physical state that goes along with it may not really match the illusion or the brand. Yeah, and I'd love to be honest here because I don't think many people want to live out of a suitcase ever. And I've loved it because I do actually

like the fact that I can pack up in five minutes and go anywhere with my whole life. However, even myself, after four years of doing this full time, I am so looking forward to throwing down my suitcase, unpacking for like six to eight weeks, which is a long time for me. And just being, as you said, rooted and grounded. So I know when a good thing is, you know, maybe running out and I'm looking forward to having more of a base where I can, as you say, get those rituals and be around my friends. And that's another version of freedom, right? Yeah.

So let's deconstruct the beginning of that a little bit also for those who don't know you and, you know, the suitcase entrepreneurs or like the public brand. So bring a little bit of context to that. So, yeah, I actually think I just kind of grew into my brand after eight years in the corporate world. Similar story, 18 months of building a startup, a tech startup in Vancouver, Canada. I just really felt like I wanted to do something for myself and run my own business, but I didn't have any idea what it was. However, once I figured out what it was that I was quite good at, you know, that beautiful sweet spot that people talk about, I decided not to do what most other people do, I think, which is stay where they built their network and stay where they built their expertise. The minute I had this workshop that I ran that was really successful, I went,

I wonder if I can take it on the road. So what was that workshop? The workshop was the social media bootcamp. I can still imagine the logos because I had. Because nobody saw when you just did that, you kind of like shook your shoulders. Because it was all about exercise and energy and taking action, which is a big thing for me is taking action. But what I loved about it was it was proof of concept, right? And instead of doing what most people would do and stay where they built up their reputation, I decided to go to Buenos Aires and see if I could turn it into an online program,

which I don't actually recommend. Leaving a country you're in, going to a completely new country with a different language, with crappy internet, and trying to launch an online program for the first time. So I think I've deliberately made it hard for myself every single time I've gone somewhere. And now that's just kind of become my thing. Like it challenges me. What's that about? I like it because it pushes me more. You know, if I'd actually stayed in one place for the last four years, I think my business would be super successful.

But it wouldn't be true to who I am. And I do like the challenge of change. And you know why? Because I think it makes me feel really humble. And it also forces me to make decisions more quickly and it also forces me to think about different perspectives so putting yourself in different environments does that why do you think it would be super successful versus i guess how how would you classify yourself as not being super successful now in a way that you would have been super successful had you

stayed put and just built because it's really hard to run a business from the road like it's really fun but i'm really good at it now. But I know so many people who say when they start traveling, they can't get any work done. Me included, by the way. Right. Yeah. So I love it. I can sit in a noisy coffee shop or at an airport and I am 100% focused on what I'm doing.

And it only became recently kind of clear to me that most of my friends can't do that. They think it's like the special skill that I've developed. Also, you're moving around all the time. So at the time I was coaching clients and trying to do things online and half the time I couldn't even get online or I didn't have decent infrastructure, a quiet place to interview people, all those things. So just at the time, I think probably when I needed that, I made it super challenging for myself.

But at the same time, I mean, like like you said the fact that you were going from place to place place was proof of concept exactly so it's kind of like somebody can look at your life and say okay she's actually building a substantial business you know like she's paying her rent and well wherever it may be or not really rent or whatever you know whatever you're you know you're living well you're not racking up massive amounts of debt in fact um from what i remember from a recent post of yours, it's just the opposite. Yeah, I think I've saved more money from not having a fixed place

and all those costs that suddenly come when you move into a place. Like looking around here, I mean, this is beautiful, but my running costs versus yours, probably substantially different, right? Don't have mortgage payments, don't have car payments, don't have internet, all those things. And it really struck me that, wow, you actually can save money and then invest it into the right places when you're living quite freely on the road. Yeah. But maybe there's a cost mentally and physically as well that I'm definitely starting to see. So talk to me about that.

I think mentally it, well, actually mentally I really like it. As I said, I still like the challenge, but it's definitely tiring. And it's the mental cost of leaving really good friends behind or potential relationships behind or not being able to develop those friendships as much. It's the mental cost of, oh, my gosh, I have to plan for myself every single day. You know, like where am I staying? Where am I traveling? Where am I going next?

Where's the local convenience store? Where do I get good internet, et cetera? And then the physical cost is definitely, I mean, I have a lot of energy, which I'm really thankful for, but I've even noticed that I've been close to burnout, especially when I was launching my book last year for the first time ever. And I think I was just trying to be super woman by having a crazy travel schedule, trying to launch a book by myself and changing location the whole time. And it was a little bit much. How much of it do you think was influenced by the crowd that you run with

and what they may or may not have done at all? I don't feel like I run with a crowd. Like I just love my community. So maybe my community influenced me because they're always saying how it's crazy and cool and, you know, maybe they don't want to do it, but they really love what I do. And that sort of eggs me on to do more of it. Um, cause most of the friends that I know, you know, they're based in one place, even though they're location independent. So I think it was just influenced by me, really. I just sort of, when I love something and I'm passionate about

it, I really do want to work on it all the time. Right. Um, so how do you feel about roots? Well, somebody said, if you had to live somewhere for the next year, where would it be? And I was like, oh, my God, that's such a long time. Like that, it doesn't scare me. It just seems such a long time. And I think it's not the FOMA, fear of missing out. I think that's been around for a lot longer than before they labeled it. But I do have so many good friends and experiences around the world now that I feel when I'm in one place, I get to experience that fully. And then I want to move to the next

to make sure that I'm getting to experience that as well. So roots, to answer your question, I am really looking forward to this next chapter because my plan is to be in places for three months, three months, three months, and actually set up some bases, which is going to be really new for me. But I think it's about time and I'm looking forward to it. So then I can tell you how I feel about it. Right. From the inside looking out. What is your business exactly?

That's a great question. Do you know, I just put it out in a video recently. How do I make money online? Because I know people ask me all the time. They're like, you do what? And I'm like, how do you pay your rent? I actually have eight revenue streams. And I heard that millionaires have seven. So I

don't know what that means for me. Maybe I'm a little unfocused and I've just started cutting a few out. So it started with the workshops and then I've continued to run them around the world, but they've morphed over time. And what's the focus of this? Build your online business. So I've actually run them in seven different cities across four different continents this year, which was really amazing. And that is really how do you build the foundations of a profitable online business you can take anywhere. So they've been really amazing because I love meeting people in person. And the other revenue streams are a couple of digital books that relate to the BYOB series from beginner through to kind of more

advanced. And then I have, you know, I do recommend products and programs because I can't live without them. My whole life is on my laptop and mobile. So I'm always talking about tools and systems and accessories. And so affiliate marketing has been actually a really lucrative revenue stream, which I never used to like the word and everything like that. I used to shy away from it. My book has led to nobody makes money on a book.

I guess you do when you're self-published, but it's led to just so many opportunities and a huge increase in my community. And then to paid speaking gigs. I also run a high flyer club. It's a membership based site for established entrepreneurs. And I'm just launching the freedom plan, which is like my definitive, every single thing I know from the last four years of running a business and having a great lifestyle. So it's pretty, it's all aligned, like it's all aligned perfectly. And a lot of it's on autopilot, which is great. But I still have realized that I love the active aspect of meeting people and learning from them and teaching them and coaching them. So which is really interesting also, because

there's a huge push in the world that we tend to exist in to commoditize your knowledge and somehow put it online so that it's scalable and it's autopilot and it's out there 24-7. And if that actually works for you on a personality, on what you need from your business to beyond cash, like what else does your, like the way that you contribute to the world and the way that you get people exchange value for you. I think a lot of people look at it and say, well, of course this is the thing I need to do. You know, like if I have something to teach, then what I need to do is basically pull it out of my head, turn it into a commodity and figure out how to put it online. So it's just up there for sale 24 seven. And

it can be a valid revenue stream. It can be a way to sustain yourself. But at the same time, I see a lot of people doing that who are people who love nothing more than to be in a room with other people. That's what lights them up. And you kind of buy into the online revenue stream or automatic revenue stream thing because it's great. Even as cash flow it does all this stuff you know i i build programs that are virtual um but if fundamentally the thing that fills you up more than anything else is being in a room with people i've seen a number of people go into the world of online entrepreneurship build what the world would consider a successful venture and be miserable because now they've stopped doing the thing that they actually love doing more than anything else which is being being with people. Yeah, exactly. Which is why I would say 50%

of my revenue streams are active, like fully active, like group coaching calls, meeting people in person, retreats. That was the last one I didn't throw. And I'm throwing one in Barcelona this year, which was amazing. And then I'm throwing one in New Zealand. I'm actually dragging a whole bunch of people to come to paradise. So I've just noticed this repetitive thing for me that I need to be around people and my community is everything to me. I love them. What's that about? I get energy from giving energy to people and off people. And I think it's because every single time I get an email, you know what it's like. Every single time you get somebody saying, oh my God,

I'm so excited to join your community. I've following you from afar i love your work or i love that you're down to earth or you've inspired me to do this i mean it's just like kind of like it just feels so good right because you're giving and giving and giving um and you can't give too much which i also noticed recently i gave away too much of my energy to other people and i forgot to give it back to myself but it's just it's like warms my soul i can't describe it And so when people are like, oh, you're always online and I'm not always online, but when I'm online, it's because I'm connecting, connecting, connecting. And I'm obviously a connector. People give me energy and I love, I love learning about their story and I love helping them to live their best life.

The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum.

Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg.

You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight risk. What was it that made you feel like you had given away too much of your energy? What unfolded and how did you fix it? That's a great question.

So I was actually supporting a mutual friend, probably Kyle Durant, a good friend of Pam's limbs. I was supporting him on his sixth Ironman, like crazy guy that he is. And we were up in Whistler and I spent about from when I got up at 4am with him to midnight, just supporting people who are on the Ironman, especially car. We were racing all over the tracks and running and cycling. And then I was actually pumping water at people like with a big, like it was awesome, a water gun for about five hours straight and yelling and supporting and i got to the end of that day and i woke up the next morning and i

couldn't move like everybody else who just done the iron man was running around and i was just exhausted and i was like wow i think that was putting it over the edge for all the energy that i'd given out over the last probably seven months on the road this year of going to about 15 different countries plus everything else so um so what'd you do uh i decided that i needed to rest so i think i just went to the lake and i chilled out i got more sleep i fed myself better um i just gave myself some space and everybody else went off and did stuff and i just had some time alone which which also brings up another interesting question which is when you you you, so you live a life where you're kind of in constant motion and country to country to country, country to country, self-care. Yeah. Yeah. Missed the boat on that one. No, I mean, I'm really good. I love sports and I love being active. So wherever I am,

I'm doing something, yoga, meditation, running, swimming, gyms, whatever I can do. And of course, ultimate Frisbee, which you know, I love, and you can pretty much do that anywhere. So that's my form of self-care to me is to get exercise in that kind of satisfies my soul. And I also, despite the fact there's lots of lovely stuff out there, I do eat pretty well and always having water and stuff. Ignore all the Instagram photos of cheesy fries. Wait, I haven't seen any of those on my Instagram. No, I think I do a pretty good job of taking care of myself.

I just, what I hadn't realized is how much energy I was giving out. And that's something you can't quantify. That's not exercise or food. You know, that's like something that you just, you give naturally. So tell me a little bit about who's the person who's in the community that you're growing? In my community that I'm growing? So exciting. So I just ran this pilot program of my freedom plan and there were 34 people in it.

And they're just all so excited. Like I honestly didn't think it would be as fantastic as it was. And even though people got stuck during what I was teaching and coaching along the way, they were all like, yeah, but I had this aha moment here. Or I've been stuck on this for years and finally I got through it. Or they even just figured out what their sweet spot was or the vision that they have for their business and life. So I love the painted picture exercise and people kind of got stuck on that, but they got so much out of it.

And even though there was like all these things that went on after that, they were just so excited to share that. And they shared it with everybody. So I feel like everybody in that program is growing, even though some of them have been in business for years or have been kind of putting this off for such a long time. So what's the avatar for that? What's the person's life look like? Great. What what are they, what's the person's life look like?

Great. What's the person of what? What does their life look like? Their life doesn't look that great right now. They're like, you know, they've been making excuses and procrastinating for a long time, which I totally get, right? I totally get it even though I don't do it because I take a leap and then I ask the questions. But for them, they've just been half-heartedly living.

So they know they have potential and they know they have the skills and knowledge that they could form it into something that would work. Talk about monetizing yourself or building a real business. But they've just been scared and they really haven't had a clear vision for what an amazing life and business looks like. And that is fundamentally, I think, the thing that stops everybody. So if I asked you tomorrow what your ideal day looks like, I think you'd be the kind of person who could tell me. But I asked every single one of these people,

and some of them were just like, I'd get up a little bit later before I went to work. And I was like, no, if you could do anything in the world that you wanted tomorrow, no holds barred, like nothing, no limitations, what would you do? And then they start thinking about it, and they're like, actually, I'd love to have a healthy breakfast. I'd like to wake up by the beach. I'd like to do yoga with my dog. And how often does

anybody ask you what's your perfect day? And are you close to living that? So if that's the biggest thing that they get out of the freedom plan, then I know I've done my job. Just to wake up their senses and understand what's possible and then start working towards making it a reality. So listening to you, obviously, even though you started out in Canada, you're not Canadian. Shh, don't tell anybody, eh? Not Canadian, eh? No, I'm from New Zealand, this beautiful place where we do actually have TV

and we don't wear grass skirts. Really? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Not according to the people I know. There's less sheep than there ever were, actually, by the way. So tell me what it's like growing up in New Zealand. Best place on the earth to grow up, I think.

Seriously, like I look back now and I'm so lucky. When I left New Zealand, I think I just kind of walked into this world that I didn't know, especially going from New Zealand to London where it's very traditional old boys club. How old were you? Well, I've been there several times since the age of two, but when I went first to like go and live there, it was, I was already in my late twenties. Had you traveled much before that? I traveled a ton. Yeah. I was really lucky. So both my parents

are from Europe. And so since the age of two, I think they just used to take my sister and I around the world because it was free to travel up until 12. So I think I'd seen more of the world by 12 than a lot of other people. But there's something different when you travel by yourself. And New Zealand's just such a free place. The people are so friendly. That's what I always hear. But we also have really strong female role models there. Prime ministers, governor generals were the first country in the world to get the right to vote for women. And it's very equal as a society. And I think I just grew up thinking that was like what the rest of the world was like. And it's very equal as a society. And I think I just grew up thinking that was like

what the rest of the world was like. And it's not in many cases. So I feel very fortunate to have grown up in a society where I felt I could do anything. I went to an all-female school and they told you could do anything. My dad told me I could be whatever I wanted. And so I've always taken that sort of attitude that, yeah, I can do anything and so can anybody else. And then you realize in the real world that not many people get that same kind of upbringing. Yeah. So when was the first time that you remember this switch of sort of or lack of empowerment for women being something that was unique to New Zealand and the rest of the world maybe

didn't embrace it? I think it was probably when I went on my first solo sort of around the world trip and I went through a lot of Europe, a lot of South America and then home. And every single country that I was in, I was like, why are all the guys gambling on the side of the road and not doing stuff? And why are the women? I mean, this is a big generalization, but literally everywhere I went, I was like, why are the women working so hard in these kind of roles and doing this stuff?

And why are the guys standing around being macho? And that may sound really horrible, but honestly, if you go to Africa, for example, it's pretty much all you see all the time. It's crazy. And I'm not trying to generalize too much. It was really very apparent to me suddenly that there was gross inadequacies, I guess, in the roles that the genders played. Was there any one instance that you remember or one thing

that just kind of lit a fire for you and said, this is, something's not right here? Yeah, I think, yeah, it's a great question, actually. I think it was even just some of the European countries. I can't even put one thing on it. And we talked about this briefly in the email that I sent you. It's just when you're a woman and you look around, you can just see it more.

I don't know if I'm more sensitive to it, but I have a real thing about it now, and I'm trying to be grateful about the roles that we play because I have so many great guy friends around the world. But it's just in your face. It's the little things. Like, oh, I was at a gym the other day, and I went to pick something up, and the guy's like,

oh, no, you won't be able to do that. And I was like, well, I just did it on the previous round. You know, like it was just little things. And I don't think it's people being mean. It's just this, I can't even, it's just a perspective of how people are in the world and what they think their roles should be. And definitely in Europe, you know, Spain, as much as I love that country, it's one of my favorite countries, there's a real gender imbalance there as well.

And, you know, women are starting to come up the ranks there, but it's very much ingrained in society. That's your role. That's what you do. And we do all these other things. And I just find that so, I get it and I can wrap my head around it now, but for the longest time, I just wanted to rebel against it. So.

It's turned into a gender rights issue. Right. But essentially, right? Because that's not what I know you for. No, it's turned into a gender rights issue. Right. But it's interesting, right? Because that's not what I know you for. No, it's not. But when you, you know, like, so I can see you when we're talking, like people hear that. I'm sure they hear it in your voice, but I can see your whole physical orientation just change when you're talking about it. It's like you get riled up.

Is this something that you see as potentially playing a more central role as you move forward with anything? Yeah, I think so. I mean, we talked briefly. I think in the online world, it's probably the thing that's riled me up most because there's a predominance in my little location-dependent world and online marketing of a lot of men, a lot of internet marketers, a lot of people without integrity, which is something that really frustrates me. And I think you just see it all the time. And these people being ridiculously successful or egotistical or arrogant, and they're not making a real impact and they're not really delivering anything of value. So maybe it's come a lot out of the last four years of battling, I feel, in that field. But I talk to other women who are online and they're like, I don't feel I'm

battling. I just ignore them. Whereas I take a lot of it personally because I see it and I want it to be better. I don't want it to be this unequal playing ground. And I want them to be better versions of themselves as well. The men or the women? The men, actually, yeah. And the women. Like I wrote a post recently that was why women need to stop getting in their own way because I honestly think we do.

But there's a whole side of it as well that is contributed to by men that I see. All right. So now you have to share some of what you said in that post. I think with women, you know, I love, I, okay, here's the biggest thing that I'd say with women. We don't promote ourselves enough, which is precisely why I kind of emailed you and stood up for myself because when I was doing a book launch in Toronto, here's one moment that I was just like, wow, all these people lined up to actually, you know, get my book signed, which was a beautiful moment. I was like, all these people are here for me. And every woman who came up, every single woman would say, oh, hi, Natalie, I'm really excited by your work. And I've been reading your blog and they wouldn't share anything about them. They'd talk about why I was lovely, which is great. and then I'd have to ask them, you know, what do you do

and what are you excited about and where are you heading? The guys would come up and go, Natalie, great talk, great book. So I've got this thing that I'm working on, you know, straight away into pitching and I love that about them. I love that they're straight up and they're like, here we are. And then I see women sort of standing in the corner often talking about why won't they promote me or why won't they do this or why don't I get in front of these people. And I'm like, because you're not necessarily taking action and choosing yourself and stepping up and telling people the value that you provide or the good things that you do.

Because I think a lot of women don't like the sales aspect of that or they feel it's not in line with their values or they feel sleazy about it or something rather than focusing on the impact they want to make. Yeah. I mean, you brought up a phrase earlier when you're talking about, well, men in men internet marketers, which is out of integrity. But so I'll share something, which is kind of interesting about, about, about this series, which is that, you know, like part of my mission is I work really hard to try and make sure that I'm featuring a lot of women because I'm the dad of a daughter. And I saw the same massive shift. And it's not just in our world. It's in mainstream media.

It's everywhere. It has nothing to do with the fact that women aren't starting businesses and being great as artists, makers, creators, whatever it may be. It's that the spotlight doesn't shine nearly as often or as brightly on them. It doesn't mean always. It just means it's that there's spotlight doesn't shine nearly as often or as brightly on that. It doesn't mean always, it just means, and it's the fact. And I was kind of like, well, you know, I have to be part of the solution. I can't just sit here and bitch and moan about it. So, but what's been really interesting for me is that it has from day one, it has been a substantially bigger challenge

for me to bring women on the show than men. We have to work so much harder to book women. And like I said, it's not that I don't have a list that's equally, if not longer, of women who I love to have conversations with. It's that we're pitched constantly by men and men's publicists. Thank you.

We have a line of people who want to show up on the show who are men. And we're also pitched but with nowhere near the level of frequency by women and publicists representing women. And so we have to get a lot more proactive. And I've actually asked a number of people, a number of women, what's this? Why? Why do you think that is? Right.

Because I really, I'm trying. I'm really trying. You're doing an amazing job. And so it's been a fascinating experiment or experience for me to be on this side of trying to build a venture and a media channel that really, you know, gender as possible or as complementary. And finding that struggle that I absolutely did not expect to emerge in any way. Yeah, I probably would have expected it to emerge. I was just recently at a… Well, everyone I've talked to would have said like, duh.

But I'm like being on the other side. It's just like, it was new to me. I was recently at a podcast movement conference where I hosted a women's podcast panel. It's actually the first woman-related thing I've done. And I tried to include as many men as possible and invite them along because we're actually talking about podcasting in the future and things. But when I have recently been interviewed on a lot of guys' podcasts

over the past year and almost 90% of the guys have said, oh, you're my first female guest. And I've gone, why? And they're like, well, I don't know many other women. And I was like, I'll give you a list straight away, men and women. But it blew my mind, and I think it's once again because guys are approaching them going, hey, and they're seeing other guys who do a great job of it and hats off to them. And women have more of a nurturing nature and, you know, they often provide. I know men provide for women, but women provide for everybody else, right?

They feel they should nurture other people or push them or give them the opportunity. I think that was also what I spoke about in my post, like use that as a strength. Say that you can be able to nurture people by having a bigger message or being able to scale or reach more people. Yeah. And by the way, you guys can tell we're recording this in New York City. Now you hear the sirens in the background. There's no extra charge for those.

Natalie, on the way over here today, she showed me like a picture when she walks in the door, which is a flipped over taxi cab. Brand new, right outside an apartment building. I wonder if they just turfed their passengers out into the hallway. That is nuts. But sadly, like, yeah, it's New York City. Anyway, but you just said something, which is I can show you a list. But so here's the challenge, though.

I have a list. For me, it's not even, it's like, so my question to you is if you showed me that list, and then like, you know, I or any one of those male podcasters reached out and said, be on the show. I would love to have a conversation with you. What happens? Because for me, a lot of times, you know, like if it's a list of guys, you know, like 90% of them are going to be like, what time can I be there? And I would have thought it would have been pretty similar for women.

And it's just been my experience that a very small percentage of those women, if I reach out to them, like well yeah absolutely let's do this um and i wonder why that is like if i had an opportunity to speak to you i would so that's why i'm here but um that's yeah that is straight i mean unless they have families and they have huge commitments you know somebody actually mentioned to me he's fairly high profile women because i was talking to her about this um and she said that in the world that she lives in, every time that she steps in front of a TV camera or on a microphone, well, especially on the visual media,

that there is a really strong likelihood that she's going to be attacked. Oh, really? And not just because of what she says, but because of her potential, quote, aggressive nature, because of what she chose to wear, because of like all these cosmetic external or, you know, like supposedly unfeminine, you know, like maybe said in her experience, she's much more selective and careful about how and where she appears publicly in the media because she feels that the likelihood of her being attacked for all sorts of things that she can or can't control is significantly higher. Nobody's going to attack him. He's not going to be on celebrity websites or TV shows for, how could you wear those shoes? So there's a real double standard in terms of how we evaluate men and women who put themselves out as public figures. I mean, the last time I was in New York, it was a really amazing experience.

I got picked up in a limo, and I got put up in a beautiful hotel, and I got put on Yahoo Finance on a video. And they named the article and the video, Why I Choose to Be Rich and Homeless, which is a little controversial in itself. I mean, that's actually kind of, I am homeless. But what fascinated me is I stopped reading the comments after maybe 10 or 12, but they were just ridiculous comments because all these people maybe had never heard of me. And they were judging on, you know, there was two reactions.

Wow, that's awesome. I'd love to live her life. She seems really cool. Lots of fun. I'd love to join her on her travels. And the other one was, you know, who does she think she is? She's not really doing this. Her blog's not even been updated because they were looking at my normal website.

And how does she even make money? And look at her hair and just like stuff. And I was like, what the heck has this got to do with you choosing a life that you really love? So it was just really fascinating to see that divide for people who had never met me. But I don't honestly care what they think. I care what people think. But if they've never met me before and they had no prior judgment, I'd probably look at that and go, who does this person think they are? But to come back to that fact, I will never not say something if I think somebody's going to judge me on my shoes.

I mean, I'm wrinkled half the time because I live in a suitcase, right? Like clearly I'm not going to turn up looking pristine. But that is a really sad, sad fact that what we say isn't the thing that people are looking at. It's how we look and how we dress. Yeah. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you,

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Charge time and actual results will vary. When I sat down with Brene Brown, I guess probably about two years ago, you know, we kind of get into this conversation, and she brought up this point. She's like, you know, how much beauty, how much grace, how much creativity, how many amazing things are not put out into the world because of fear of being judged for what's going to come back to us

when it gets put out into the world. And you just think about it. You're like, how much bottled up grace is there, you know, in billions of people's, you know, like little locked down clamped capsules that never sees the light of day simply because we're terrified of, um, of how people are going to judge us. You just gave me a visual of the, you know, the little boat and a bottle just floating out to sea drifting and all that goodness locked up in there. Um, yeah, it's a very, very true point.

And I don't quite know how to help it more so than just be myself and keep putting stuff out there and challenging people to, you know, truly go after their dreams, which always sounds naff, right? But life is so short. And in New York, when you get here, you realize that as well. So you might as well just live your best life and do it on your own terms and not worry about what other people are judging because haters will be haters, potatoes will be potatoes. I saw that on an image the other day and I laughed my head off.

It's just so funny. That's awesome. So you head out of, do you have brother sisters? I have one older sister. And what is she up to? She just had a baby seven weeks ago. She lives in a house with real stuff and a lot of stuff in her house, actually. Are your parents still in? They are still in Wellington, New Zealand. Right. And do you ever have conversations with them? That's sort of like the lifestyle that you're choosing now? Well, luckily they're the best people in the world because they love to travel. So they get it. And since my book came out, my mom read it, I think she finally understands what I do. And they're an awesome part of my life like dad came to stay with me in japan this

year when i was traveling and he came out for two and a half weeks and we spent amazing quality time together we were cycling we did karaoke we it was just amazing um he's 77 and he's incredible and i just had the best time so i think they're really he understands me and they understand what i'm doing they're definitely keen for me to come home and stay a little bit more. There's little hints from time to time, like maybe you could get a base here and buy an apartment. Wouldn't that be lovely? But something switched to me when I found out that my sister was pregnant and when I got to see her on Skype, the modern day age with her baby. And I was just like, man, I want to be home now. Like it was really real and right in my heart. I was kind of like, I've got to be there.

I want to see her as a mother. I want to meet my new nephew and I want to see my parents as grandparents. So I'm super excited about this next stage because I think it'd be interesting to go back and see them all in this environment and see how that makes me feel about roots as we were talking about earlier. So where are the places that you've chosen for your long-term experimentation of an entire three months? The ideal plan is Australasia, so most likely New Zealand for three months. Somewhere in North America, I'm definitely very keen on Austin having just been

there, but I also love San Diego and Manhattan Beach. And then somewhere in Europe, most likely something like Barcelona. I also, you know, love Italy and France. So basically it's Australasia, North America, Europe, new country, rinse and repeat. That's the ideal. Excited by it. It sounds like a pretty good idea. You know, it's so funny because I look at that and on the one hand, I'm like, yeah, that sounds really great. And the other hand, I also know about myself because we've done a bunch of experiments you know like we spent a month and a half basically living and working in bali with them with my wife and my daughter and um and it totally didn't work for me really yeah i was working on a book at the time and um besides the

fact that it was you know like 103 degrees and 100 humidity in the middle of the country the whole time weren't really And I melt in heat. We should kind of plan that a little bit. But it was the, my creative process really requires, I was surprised by this, a fair amount of ritual. I can drop into anywhere. I can be writing anywhere. I can be in a cafe. I can be noisy everywhere. But I do a lot better if I'm at, like if I, you know, from nine to 12 every day, I have that place to go, even if there's madness going all around me while I'm there. Like, there needs to be a basic framework for my creative process. And I find that when I'm

traveling, the reason I cut back on a huge amount of travel this year and said no to a ton of speaking, largely because this is a huge creative year for me. And I learned last year. Last year was my year of saying yes to speaking. And so I ran an experiment. I kind of said in my mind, I said, okay, you know what? I've always assumed that if I was on the road a fair amount and speaking a fair amount, it would be massively disruptive to my creative process, my health, my mindset, and my family life.

But I'm also, I'm a huge proponent of experimentation. You know, it's like you don't get – stop having the conversation in your head. Respond – whenever you have an opportunity to respond to data instead of self-talk, respond to data. And I realized I hadn't actually – I've been responding to self-talk the whole time. I never tested it. So I basically started – I said, you know, I'll say yes to almost anything that's well aligned. And I spent a lot of time traveling last year, a lot of time speaking. And by the, I think it was August of last summer, I found myself in a hotel room in Munich, Germany without internet and away from my

family for five days and on deadline for creating stuff, unable to really write, not sleeping all that well, and missing my family terribly. And it was like, I remember the moment. I'm like, I'm done. I said, I ran this experiment for the first eight months. I no longer have to respond to data. I know my answer.

But the experiment that you're about to move into is something that intrigues me because of the idea of not being sort of persistently nomadic, but saying, I'm kind of, I'm going to kind of actually live somewhere for three months, you know, let's rent a house or whatever it is. So actually like, because then you can build the ritual, you can build the routine. Um, and you know, so you keep it going for two three four months that's actually really fascinating to me that's gonna be exciting i think um definitely and i had a moment like yours two weeks ago uh when i was stuck in the airport and the flight

was delayed and it was just all the stuff and i was like i'm done like i adore flying i still find exciting like a kid but you get to a point where i like, I'm just sitting on a giant bus in the sky. And that's when it's not so cool. So I'm looking forward to actually taking more of a break from the travel aspect to enjoy it again. So kind of reignite the love for it and the passion that you have for it. Yeah.

So we know you like to be around people. What else lights you up? Dogs. Dogs and nature. I'm such a dog freak. So three things, people, dogs dogs in nature i'm such a dog so three things people dogs in nature yeah um almost all my instagram feed is like me just patting a dog on the street or yeah i really want to do house sitting and dog sitting a lot next year and nature is huge so i've realized my non-negotiable is being by water or close to it it lights me up i think it gives it

has this natural energy that people recognize that's why they love to be in the ocean or by lake or by river so that's what i'm seeking out more of next year more time with great friends and family more time with animals who just make me feel amazing and more time in nature yeah nature is a huge reset for me too and water also so much of it here in new york city we're on an island surrounded by it but that's one of the things that keeps us here actually because we've looked at moving to like we looked at north carolina we looked at boulder came really close to boulder i love boulder um but i grew up i'm a water kid i grew up on on long island on a peninsula i was east egg from

the great gas bay port washington and um the end of my block was the beach. And that's where I went to touch stone. If I was upset, if I just needed to just think wherever it was, I'd go down and I would just climb up onto the lifeguard house and just sit and watch the water or just walk through it or whatever it is. It's interesting, isn't it, how deeply wired into that that can be? Because I thought I'd have no trouble leaving it. And when I went to a beautiful place like Boulder, like a weekend, I'm like, no.

Aren't there lots of lakes up there, though? There are, and there's Boulder Creek, but it's not the same. It doesn't, yeah, I don't get the same hit. I think about Wellingtonington new zealand where i'm from it's just a natural harbor and you're flying over and you come into the city and it's just all water same with auckland and all the islands i mean we're literally an island but it's really important you're lucky you have central park it's pretty incredible park in the

middle of the city yeah it's amazing no and i think and where we are you know we're saying where it's two blocks between the hudson river and then two blocks the other way is Central Park. And I think that's the saving grace for New York. I don't think New York would be livable without Central Park, actually. No. Even arriving today, the energy just goes out of you straight away. There's the constant breaking of the taxis and the honking and the sirens. And just there's this frantic energy, which I used to love when I came here,

but now it's kind of you get here and I'm like, just need to be by the water. Yeah. No, I'll often go out really early in the morning and walk, just walking in central park before it gets a little bit crazy with all the people. But yeah,

it's where it's kind of quieter and more peaceful. And for those of you who haven't been at central park, by the way, New York city, it's like the size of many cities, actually, the park alone. It's massive, massive greenery. You can really get lost in it if you want. But, yeah, it's –

What time is early, by the way? Like how early do you have to be there? Six. Okay. I've actually been walking in Central Park at like 5.30 in the morning and had somebody run by me, stop, turn around. Are you Jonathan Fields? I'm like, I'm really not that famous.

Trust me. I'm just like some schmucky guy on the Upper West Side of New York City. I'm like, really? Did somebody legitimately just recognize me at 5.30 in the morning at Central Park from my blog or the web show or whatever? That is bizarre. That's really awesome. Yeah.

So that's the time you have to find me. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, so that's kind of, that's, that's the time you have to find me if you're, um, totally with you on the nature thing though. And, uh, so how do you take that with you when you're traveling all the time also? That's a good question. I think I definitely choose destinations where I'm in nature. So, um, that's one thing, or, you know, as I say to people when they're doing the perfect day exercise, if you don't live by the beach, can you get to a swimming pool? I mean, even the swimming pools kind of excites me to go diving in there and do handstands and stuff. So I just try and make it happen wherever I can.

And you'll be surprised. Like I walk around a lot of cities or new destinations on foot, and you can find kind of a peace and tranquility just from walking on foot, a little hidden alleyway or a little private garden. And there's almost always something that you can kind of get back to nature on. Yeah. There's actually in New York, one of the big secrets in New York is that all over New York are hidden gardens,

like little tiny gated gardens and neighborhoods all over the city. Very often you need to key. But a lot of times also if somebody is in the other, they'll just kind of bring you into it. But there's beautiful little tucked away gardens between buildings all over the city. Like you see in the movies. Pretty much. All those romantic movies.

Yeah. So you know what? Speaking of water, it's kind of interesting because you're talking about the ocean. We just came back from vacation where we were on the ocean for a week. And there's something about saltwater. But it's been brought up a totally different association, which I've been experimenting with flotation tanks recently. Ooh, God. Have you done any of that?

You and like four or five other people I know. It's becoming really hot. Apparently what happened is they were really big in the 70s and they were starting to grow. And then the AIDS epidemic hit and people got really freaked out about transmission. And then whatever was growing around people, basically they all shut down because everyone was concerned about the cleanliness of the water and stuff like that. And now obviously we know so much more about all this. And the benefits of flotation tanks or deprivation tanks, as a lot of people came to know them in the 70s, they're becoming kind of like this rage, especially in the tech entrepreneurship world.

There are a lot of people who are becoming devotees of flotation tanks. It's a really, really interesting experiment too. It's like this bizarre thing of you're not in nature, but you're floating weightlessly in water. That's the temperature of your skin, so you can't feel anything. And it's like a thousand pounds of magnesium salts in it. So you're literally four times more buoyant than the Dead City or something like that. Wow. And it's pitch black and no sound or anything like this. So you go into your head really quickly.

The sound of your breath fills your whole body. And it's for like an hour and a half or something, isn't it? Yeah, I've done for 90 minutes. You go in at first and you're kind of like really freaked out. You're like, there's no way I'm going to last 90'm gonna last 90 minutes like give it 10 minutes and then 90 minutes goes really quickly actually once yeah well the first 15 minutes or so your head is spinning and freaking out and then you're kind of playing bouncing off the side of the tank and trying to like you're like you're like this is fun um maybe that's just you

um yeah like because you're experimenting because you're just like you're floating on top of the water and you can't feel it and you actually sometimes will

like you can't you kind of feel like you're spinning sideways or something like that but then you kind of settle in you just drop into

this really interesting place but the other thing is that magnesium in the water transdermally absorbs and it's this tremendous relaxation agent for your musculoskeletal system and so it's interesting it's sort of like um you know so

it's an interesting alternative it's like when you can't get to the water it's what's funny too now this is all clicking to me as i'm talking to you it's like i have a bunch of buddies in boulder and who become diehard you know like, four time a week floaters. Really? Floaters is not a good word to use. We have to change the terminology somehow there. But, yeah, it's kind of interesting. Maybe they're actually water people and they don't even really know it. Like this is how they're satisfying their Jones because it does something to you. But what I found out recently also is that the um the mineral content especially

magnesium content in ocean water is substantially higher um so it's not an all actually because i guess you would float a lot more um but um yeah that's part of the effect of ocean water too is that actually it's got this really interesting mineral content that when you come out you tend to feel just ah because literally you get all this transdermal mineral into your body it's kind of interesting that's interesting um although for me just being near water kind of does it's just so expansive it feels like you can go forever on it it's very calming and peaceful it just makes you go ah because you can't often see the horizon right no it's just there's something beautiful about it and it flows do've got a lot of energy.

I have done scuba diving, especially in Mexico where they forgot to fill up my tank. And I was trying to remember all the symbols to go, I think I'm going to die. Could you get me to the top? When did you realize this? I went down and I was like breathing really hard and nothing was coming out. And the guy's like, is everybody okay? And I'm like, I don't really think I'm going to die. And he just shot me up to the top and he's like, I'm so sorry we didn't fill up your tank. I was the only one. But other than that, I've had amazing experiences diving. I like

snorkeling as well. And I used to do diving, you know, like off the diving board. I just play in water all the time. Handstands. So what happened I asked you that you think is important to talk about? What do you want to talk about that nobody talks to you about? Do you know, it's really interesting. It's something that I'm starting to discover, and this may not be relevant for everybody, but nobody really talks much about if you have been a traveler or if you have been transient, or if you have been living even in another country, how do you integrate back into your society before, even if you've been away for five years after college or, and I don't think, I talk about it a little bit in my book, but I wasn't sure myself, like what is the outset? And Kate Brubaker actually has created a great book on re-entry because nobody really thinks

about the fact that when you go home and you've changed and you've had all these experiences from even just living in another city or traveling the world, you are a totally different person. And you go back to a world that was the world that you lived in and everybody's doing often, it seems, the exact same thing they were doing and you suddenly can't relate. And it was really interesting because I've been back to New Zealand three times now in the last six and a half years and each time I've gone back, I felt a little bit more like a stranger.

And I even had this conversation with my mum when I was home and it was right around Christmas Day, you know, and all those emotions come out. And she's like, well, you are like a straight, you know, like we're so proud of what you're doing, but you're off in this other exciting world and it's amazing. And we're just here being boring. And I was like, but you're not boring. You know, you live in a great city and you lead really rich lives. But I didn't realize what an impact that was.

As you go away, you expect to come back and get everybody asking you about what you've been doing. But to them, it's like you just came back just came back. You haven't been gone for ages. And they don't sometimes know the questions to ask to dig deep and find out what you've learned and how that would relate to them. And you go back with this attitude of, oh, all these people are doing the same thing. That's kind of boring and everybody's stagnated, but that's not true. That is something that I think is really fascinating that should be talked about more because it can really hit you and change you when you go back

do you go back with judgment? I used to and each time I've tried to drop a little bit more of that and this time I'm going back with I am fully prepared to integrate into society to meet new people to become a member of the community and just to be a local

which is really new for me I'm also fully prepared to go back as an aunt for the first time as a sister as a daughter and i'm just going to be like i'm not going with an agenda i'm not running off quickly i'm really going to be there and just be a kiwi again which is a colloquial term for new zealander just in case people don't know not the fruit or the bird you know it's actually a bird i did not So it's our national emblem. It's a flightless nocturnal bird, really, really shy and with really poor eyesight. I'm not entirely sure why we picked that as our emblem, but the kiwi is quite an incredible bird.

Lays enormous eggs, but only comes out at night and is very, very protected. I know some people like that, actually. I don't know about the egg part, but the rest of it. Yeah. That's pretty funny. One of your biggest values is? Freedom. And what does that mean?

Freedom. Well, it means so many different things. One of my favorite ever, George Michael Solomon, by the way. Yeah, it's so good, huh? Well, this is the thing. The thing. This is the thing. Freedom means so many different things to so many different

people but to me and i am stealing a little bit from leo babada here it's being at that place in your life when you get to do what you want with who you want when you want and where you want like that's the ultimate version of freedom in my life and for a lot of other people that i've asked that question but for other people it's completely different yeah so tell me you've traveled the world and you've seen um places where people would probably make assumptions that you know this is massively oppressed there's no sense of freedom and probably other places where people would be like these are the freest people in the world and your experience has been sometimes the exact opposite yeah like um one of my fondest memories was being in laos, where the Mekong River runs through the entire country

and it's very calming and beautiful. And the people there have so little. Like the roads aren't sealed and they live in kind of these huts and, you know, in the dirt with their dogs and their cats and their children just running around bare feet and wearing nothing. And they seem so happy. You know, they're all about family and loving and living off the land and such simple lives.

And they just seem so at peace. And when we were there, I was there with a bunch of Americans and English guys. And they're all like, oh, poor people, you know, so naive to the rest of the world. And they don't have basic health care and all this stuff. And they don't have, you know, nice cars. And nobody really has cars. And I was like, well, maybe they don't need any of that. We've got it wrong.

Like maybe the fact that, you know, we're in New York with huge rentals and all these things you have to buy and spend money on in order just to survive. Maybe we've got it the wrong way around and that the simple life, the good life, is way more freeing than anything that we can buy. So it's like a really interesting observation. Yeah. And it's funny because we do make so much. So many people, when you talk about freedom um maybe it's just a united states thing maybe it's a a western country type of thing that we kind of the first thing that pops into our mind is is money and that if you have it you must have a certain amount of freedom and like how do i get my freedom well i make enough money

so i don't have to work for the man anymore. Yeah. It's always a great opportunity. I don't think it is. Sometimes freedom is just the ability to sit and do nothing all day because you can, and you don't need a lot of money to do that. I think the best things in life are free. It's like the festival in the park. It's like just lying on the grass and looking up at the clouds. I mean, I know we're getting a little la-la there, but those are the most beautiful moments and they don't require any money. It's laughing with your friends. It's, you know, walking down to the Hudson River and just being able to take it in. Yeah, I totally agree with that.

Yeah, I'll throw out this phrase for you, right? I don't curse a ton on this, but there's a phrase that both you and i know and a lot of people know that's been thrown out to me a lot recently and i've had some interesting conversations around it and the phrase is fuck you money oh really yeah which is basically enough money so that it's like you know like i got x millions or tens of millions or thousands however you define it in the bank where I can just say F you to anybody and to anything I want. And I know people where their big aspiration is to work as hard as they can until they hit the point where they think they've got the F you money in the bank, and then they'll be able to choose

freedom. See, that doesn't work for me for many reasons. By the time they get to that point, they might be old or they might get there and go, oh, my God, I actually really love working. And I love doing this stuff and being busy and doing all these things every day. And they might feel like they've lost the sense of their identity and they can't take that freedom and actually just relax and be. And second, it's a little like the whole Tim Ferriss thing. You know, he was really trying to say, you've got to start taking mini retirement breaks right now because tomorrow or in five years or 10 or 20 years, like that's a long time to wait for freedom. Why can't you choose it every day in just some small format? Yeah. And the other thing is.

Who are you hanging around with, by the way? I haven't actually heard that that much. Maybe I'm hanging with the wrong people. I'm like in new york or is it like tech entrepreneurship and stuff like this it's kind of yeah like new york just had to just let it all hang out you know you swear like a comma but the other thing is you know like it's also assuming that you're going to survive long enough to get there, which you may not. Um, and, and the other thing is that it's working on the assumption that when you get there, it will be enough. And very often what really happens is when you get there, you say just a little bit more, and then it becomes this spiraling cycle that is constant, you know,

like just a little bit more, just a little bit more, just a little bit more, just a little bit more. And you find yourself 20 years out, having spent the last 20 years of your life, you know, doing something that you had no interest in, in the name of just a little bit more. And then you look back and you're like, what happened? Exactly. And is that freedom? One thing I've observed a lot, and I know it sounds rich coming from me because, you know, I'm single, I get to gallivant around the world. I don't have any dependents, is that people are like, yeah, but I've got to make this much money in order to do this thing. I can't just leave it all. But if you choose, we'll come back to New York City, if you choose to live in New York City,

you have chosen one of the most expensive cities in the world. You could go to somewhere else in the world with excellent infrastructure, great English if you need to be around that, and live like a king or queen for very little. So ultimately, every single day you make a choice. And freedom could come to you a lot more quickly if you chose to be in a different place, for example, in a different culture. Yeah, no, I totally agree. I have this conversation with my wife.

We choose to be on the upper right side of Manhattan. And it's a choice. You hear people all the time say, my wife is like, you know, like we choose to be on the upper side of Manhattan, you know, and, and, but, and it's a choice. And you know, like you can, like you hear people all the time. It's like,

Oh, New York is so expensive. It's crazy. And these are people who live here. It's like, yeah, it is right. But as long as you make the conscious choice to be here,

you know, either just be okay with the fact that you're going to pay gobs more than it would cost to live somewhere else and then figure out how to build your life, your career, whatever it is in a way where you're okay with that and you're still living well or move. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Anyway, also, I'm glad we circled back to this. Yeah, me too.

So this is a name of this is a good life project. So if I offer that out to you to live a good life, what does it mean to you? Oh, I'd love to say that I do it every day. It means being at peace with the decisions that you make every day and to lead the best life for you that makes a difference in your world and in others. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, it's Jonathan. I hope you really enjoyed that conversation with Natalie.

So interesting to hear how people go about building different careers around what lights them up and also how one person's dream and fantasy life, fantasy career can be so radically different than other people's. I mean, it's so interesting. I have so many people who travel around the world and live fairly nomadic lives. And they make great livings. And they absolutely love the freedom it gives them. And I hang out in New York City. And I love just kind of having a home base. I'm a bit of a homebody.

And so it's really neat, I think, to explore the differences in what lights people up. And really figure out the fact that really, no matter what you're doing, there seems to always be an interesting way, especially in these days of technology flattening the world, to build, to craft both the living and the lifestyle that you want in an intelligent, deliberate, respectful way. So I hope you enjoyed the conversation. I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. Thank you. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever,

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