Good Life Project - Lori Harder: Transforming Anxiety Into Action and Elevation

Episode Date: October 17, 2016

How does a fearful kid from the midwest with severe social anxiety and a struggling self-image end up on the cover of magazines and teaching women how to love themselves?That's the story in today's episode of Good Life Project, featuring Lori Harder. Growing up in Michigan, Lori found herself increasingly anxious about more and more things, from the size of her body to her ability to fit in. Not surprising for a young teen. But, add to that being born into a faith with an ethos of separation from outsiders, and you've got a perfect recipe for amplified struggle.In her early teens, though, something changed that began to bring Harder out of her shell. And, that was just the beginning. She eventually transformed herself into not just a fit and confident woman, but a cover model and an advocate not just for fitness, but for a more complete approach to wellbeing. She now teaches and speaks on this in her workshops and keynotes and retreats.As she writes in her manifesto, "Beauty is a way of being. Strength means showing up. Fierce self-love is our only choice."In today's episode, we dive into this journey, especially the early years and explore how family, faith and culture mixed together to create an experience that, looking back, she's grateful for as she emerges into her own path. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I think I was just surrounding myself with so much inspiration that all of a sudden it was like I was staring at these people and staring at these covers and I thought that's what I want to do. I want to be this inspiration for other people. Today's guest, Lori Harder, spends pretty much most of her days building businesses and helping women stand in a place of health and vibrance and vitality. She also has graced the cover of a number of different health and fitness magazines as a cover model. This really sounds odd for somebody who actually knew who she was as a kid. Because Lori grew up in a town in Michigan where she was part of a

faith-based community where she was largely isolated from the entire outside world. And in her early teens, she developed a pretty severe anxiety disorder and also struggled with weight, as did her entire family. And she was the person that you would think would be the last one to end up doing what she's doing. Yet, somehow, something happened. A switch flipped, and all of a sudden, everything came pouring out with Lori and led to years of transformation and healing, and now her standing in a place to be able to turn around and do that for other people. We dive into this really powerful journey in today's conversation. I'm Jonathan Fields.

This is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised.

The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him.

Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. You're really kind of fascinated by your story, by your journey. You know, I want to talk about what you're up to to now because I think you're doing some really cool stuff. Right now, you're sort of a luminary, a leading light in the world of wellness and fitness and sort of taking control of life. This was not your early state of being from what I can tell from your story. So you grew up in the Midwest, right?

Yes, I'm actually from Upper Michigan. So a lot of people didn't even know there's an upper portion to Michigan. Really small town. I know. I'm from New York. So we have this really warped sense of the United States. It's sort of like there's New York City, there's the Hudson River, and then there's California. And we're pretty sure there's some stuff in the middle.

I know. I totally know. It's completely screwed up. We have a weird sense of the world. Tell me about the town. Tell me about sort of like the vibe when you were growing up. Oh, man. Well, so just like you had a different sense of the world, I had a totally different sense of the world. It was like, yes, there was New York and California, but they were like these places that you'd probably never, ever go to. It was like this dreamland, like Disneyland almost. Yeah, it exists, but it's just totally so far outside of the realm of reality. It was like

something I saw on TV. So for me, being from a really small town, it was just like that was the life that we knew. In the winter, you either snowboard or ski or you're indoors, literally all of the time. And in the summer, which is like two months long, no joke. You just try to get outside as much as possible. And I grew up in a really religious family. So take a small town and make it even smaller because I was, the religion I was in, I was only allowed to associate with people within my religion. Well, there was only like two girls my age. So I will say it was, I didn't know any better, but it was very isolated. I led a completely isolated life growing up. Huh.

Are you open to exploring that a little bit? Sure. I mean, not the isolated life part, but just the faith, like sort of like the faith that you grew up in and how that affected you. Yes. You know, I think that I'm grateful for it now. I can honestly tell you I am grateful for every single part of it because I think every journey, you know, the stuff that is the tough stuff is the good stuff.

So I am really extremely, I have a lot of gratitude for what I was raised in and the way that it just, I have so much perspective now, especially from it. So we didn't celebrate holidays and I was also homeschooled through high school. So it was just very literal. Everything was really literal. And we, you know, I was basically my, a lot of kids were thinking of their future as college or they wanted to, you know, they had these big dreams or an athlete or whatever that was. But for me, it was like, you're not going to go to college. You're going to be like a preacher or a preacher's wife, and this is what you're going to do. And while I knew that that's something that was in my heart, I wanted to obviously serve God, it wasn't in the way. The way in which I was expected

to do it was not resonating with me. So it always, I don't know, it always made me question myself growing up. Huh? Do you have siblings? I do. Yep. I have a brother who actually was born when I was 14 years old. So there's quite a gap there. It's almost like two different families. And then I have a sister who's about four years older than me. Right. So I mean, it sounds like you probably didn't have conversations with your brother about how you're feeling, but I'm curious, like, did this, was it something that you alone

were feeling in your family or was something that you shared with Sibs at all? I was really feeling it alone in my family because it was just my sister and she was very, very involved. So it was like, even if you say that you're remotely questioning it, it was not a good thing. So, you know, in the thing is, is that you don't have friends or tribe or basically people who are close to you outside of it. So it's really like you kind of kept that to yourself. So I kept a lot, a lot to myself, internalized a lot growing up. Right. And you said you were homeschooled also, right?

Yep. Through high school. So I went through middle school, but then high school I was homeschooled. Yeah, so then, oh, so you were in public school or regular school through middle school, but then... Yes. God, if I'm pushing too deep, just let me know,

but I'm really just, I'm just really curious, you know, like when you're growing up in an environment where there's a deep faith that can, you know, is sort of built into everything, including like the social fabric of the family and your community, but then you walk out of the house every morning and you go to public school,

and that's not what's going on. Talk to me a little bit about that experience. Well, I will say that I do everything I do now because of the experience. So going out of your house, it was like, because I did grow up in a really loving family. My family was extremely loving, but then I leave that place and you're not blending in. Because let's say the kids would do, just a lot of my memories are the kids doing different art projects or in music doing different musicals around the holidays and different things like that that I couldn't be a part of. And obviously, it was my choice to say that as well, but this was what I was raised

in. So I would say, I would have to go into another room or while kids were making turkeys and Christmas trees, I was making a flower and people were like, what are you doing? It was a constant not being able to associate with people after school. So then not being able to date, all of these different things that really put kind of a target on your back. So I will say that it definitely was something that makes you stronger, but it definitely is also something that was completely... I mean, it was a huge challenge and I wouldn't come home and you wouldn't tell your parents about when you're being

bullied or the different things that people would say. And I was a bit of a chubby kid and so was my sister. So we also had a lot of names and teasing around that. So there was just a lot going on that I also, I think that as a kid, I carried a lot of shame around it and I didn't want to tell my parents what was going on at school. What ended up happening was I developed really insane anxiety. So much anxiety because whenever any attention would be put on me, I knew that something negative would happen, right? Because it was always something around the religion or my weight or anything that could basically, you know, kids

love to pick on stuff in middle school and I just happened to have quite a few things to pick on. So it was like the second attention would be turned on me, I would go into extreme panic attacks. So this was happening, I think I remember my first one at like 12 or 13. So that was a huge reason also why I was homeschooled, not just religious, but also because I was having massive panic attacks. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine being that age and being in that scenario. So when you go from sort of this scenario, and again, like you said, like, you know, very loving families, just it sounds like, you know, they're very strict rules. Well, I have to ask you a question.

And because there's a word that keeps popping into my head, and I'm guessing you've probably been asked about this in the past, too. So you haven't shared what the faith was with me. And if you don't want to, that's fine. But anytime I have conversations with people or I see or read about or explore any form of faith or philosophy or ideology where part of it is dissociating from everybody outside of that, the word that always comes up to me is cult. And because that's one of the defining elements, the difference between a deeply rooted faith and a strong ideology and stuff like that, in my mind, there are a whole bunch of them.

But one of the things that really, that I always get curious about and concerned about is when one of the most deeply held values or beliefs is not being allowed to associate with anyone but anyone in the faith or the lineage or the ideology. I'm just, have you thought about this? Have you had conversations around that? You know, there's been conversations around it. And there's, I can see that with a lot of different religions, definitely. But as far as, obviously, yes, it's a topic that can come up a lot around it. But at the same time, it's such a choice. And I did have a really clear choice. So when I was 18, I had a clear choice of what do I want to do. And I think here's the thing about it is that in different areas, what I discovered because I moved around a lot is it was all extremely different. So dependent upon the region,

it's kind of like, I think being so isolated as well, it was extreme. But yes, I do think, I think that's a conversation as well, but I think there's a lot of choice that can also happen. My family is really open now and they're still involved with it. So they're very, very open to just the idea of where I'm at and how I feel and the things that I'm doing. And I think that, I think that that's been, it's been a conversation, right? Communication and conversation. So yeah, I don't know if that's a specific answer, but it just. Yeah. No, I mean, it's always interesting to me because there's, there's often so much grounding and solace in living with a tradition where there there's a really well-developed set of rules to live by and at

the same time there's also like you're always balancing that that fine line between comfort and grounding and knowing you know like sort of like knowing these are the tenets by which i live and at the same time limitations on freedom whether that being freedom from or freedom to. And so it's just a topic that it kind of intrigues me. So coming like middle school, as you said, the combination of your weight and just your associating, interacting with people led to this anxiety. How do you work through that? Is it something that you or how did you work through it? Is it something that you, or how did you work through it? Or did you, I guess? Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, that was a journey of

years. I mean, I think that I can probably tell you, I started coming out of it. So what was it? Early teen years until about 25 or 26, where I really started to understand what it was. And I just lived in that extreme case of basically everything was panic and anxiety all of the time. So you can have good thoughts, but then all of a sudden, it's almost like you're scanning your whole day or you're scanning your life for what could be wrong. That's how I woke up in the morning. It was like, oh, I feel okay. Why do I feel okay? And it was like, I just scanned for anything that was wrong and then I'd cling into that story. And I can tell you that's how my days every day I would wake up. And I started to, at a really young age,

because I knew there was something inside of my soul. I don't know where it came from. I knew that there might be another choice. So I used to go for walks or I used to go on long bike rides, just anything to kind of like get out and explore because I had an adventurous part of me despite being kind of just in more of an isolated life. So I'd always go for long bike rides or I'd grab my rollerblades and go forever. I'd be gone all day long. Well, while I was doing that, what are you doing? You're exercising, you're getting out, you're expanding your mind, you're seeing different things. And I realized that when I would go and exercise, I would feel better. I'd feel less anxious. I would notice I could find some peace.

I'd go outdoors. I mean, I was outdoors all the time. I'd go down by the lake. Like I said, I skied and snowboarded a lot. These things would be alone, but they would be times where I would find kind of this peace. So I realized along the way that fitness and moving my body equaled a bit of peace. And it was a way to kind of manage the anxiety. So I truly, on the days where I wouldn't, I would feel like frantic. So that's where when I started just working out, I didn't have the nutrition thing down at all. I was still like all pasta, hot dogs, macaroni, Coca-Cola. And then my family started dieting later on. I was probably in my, oh man, I actually think they started dieting really young and I started getting interested in, oh, what are they doing? What is this diet thing?

Okay, I want to lose weight too. So it was like all the wrong dieting. You remember the whole fat-free craze where we would get like snack wells, which was like fat-free cookies, except I'd eat the whole box. And I'm like, this is not working for me. But I started to tune into that, right? Like, wow, I can kind of do these little hacks. I can kind of manipulate my life a little bit to feel better. And that's really when I started making sure that I was moving every day, that I was working out every day. And later on, I learned that there were even more things that I could do as I got more curious. As I started, I would beg my mom for fitness magazines. So I'd read them from start to finish. I would carry them around with me in my bags. I would literally cut out anything that inspired me and I'd put all of them up on my

walls. So I had two closet doors and the closet doors were full of all of these fitness models, the covers, all these different things. Because to me, I guess I thought a strong exterior meant a strong, confident interior. So I just thought, how could you not feel good? How could you not feel confident if you built up your outside? Well, the years pass, I build up my outside. I really learn how to do that. I spend a lot of time on nutrition. I really learn all of these different things to make you feel better and really clear and release a lot of anxiety, release a lot of the depression and different things that were going on. And then I realized there was still this gaping hole in my soul that was like,

okay, this all feels good, but now what? Now what do I do? So it just started getting me into the whole mindfulness and really wanting to help other people with different transformations as well. Yeah, and I want to fill in some of those gaps there before we sort of move into that phase, because there's a lot that went on, you know, so you went from, you know, what's interesting to me is that you're the thing that got you into moving your body from a young age, you know, for most people, I think if you ask them, you know, who became regular exercises, if you ask them, well, what's the thing that really motivated you, especially when you're them, you know, who became regular exercises, if you ask them, well, what's the thing that really motivated you, especially when you're younger, you know, it's, well, I want to look better.

And for you, that wasn't it. It was you suffered from this really profound anxiety and you connected exercise. You connected moving with your body at a really young age with it changing not just the state of your body, but the state of your mind, which is, I think it's really unusual for that to happen almost for anybody, but especially at such a young age. You know, there was, I'm not going to lie, there was two motivating factors. It was that and also, of course, not wanting to be made fun of anymore. I literally remember thinking when people would say it, I'd be like, I'm, I was like, 12 years old, right? Maybe even younger. I was like, I'm going to show you just wait, I'm going going to show you. I'm going to be great. I didn't know what that meant. I had no idea. I didn't know what to deal with first. I literally remember just moments of like, you don't even know.

I would just leave the house and grab my stuff because there was so much just bubbling up inside of you. I'm sure so many people can relate to that. It's like you don't even know what you're thinking or feeling, but somehow just getting outside of that, of the place that you're in, the element, the room, the space, the thought, you know, the thoughts, getting out into nature and inspiration and just moving is like the first step. Just getting outside of whatever environment it is

that is causing you that anxiety or that anxiousness and changing your state. Yeah, no, I so agree. I think it's part of it's the movement. And part of it is literally shifting your physical environment. You also brought up nature too, which is a huge reset. I mean, going out into the natural environment, which I guess also was kind of challenging for you with where you lived as a kid, because it's cold a good chunk of the year. So once you start doing that, and you're getting your body is starting to change in your mind, it sounds like did a lot of the anxiety that you were sort of moving through just start to naturally drop away? A good majority of it did, but I still had massive triggers. So such as for some reason,

speaking or reading in front of people, which is what you do a lot in the church that I was raised in. But that's also sort of like the number one fear of most people. Totally. And I think, you know, I love my mom to death, but she had massive panic attacks and anxiety. So I watched her. So it was kind of like just, wait, I have that too. It was that moment of, oh, I have that too. It was that moment of, oh, I have that

too. I'm her daughter. I literally remember some moments like that. But a lot of the other things fell away with the, basically, I just wasn't carrying it all day long anymore. It was more like I had these very specific triggers, anything outside of my comfort zone. So if I was thinking of going to do anything, speaking in public, or even just if I was in a group of, let's say, three or four people and attention got put on me, I would still feel it kind of well up. And if it was more than that, I would notice that I would lose my breath. I could start really, if I focused in on the feeling that was starting to come, it was like, I'm about to have a panic attack. Then you hear those words and it triggers. It's like, instead of what you know, what I've learned now is to kind

of just breathe into it. No, it's going to, to pass. It's going to just like, let it take its course instead of resisting it. I had so much resistance to all of it that it's like, the more I would push it away, the more it just grew and expanded. Yeah. So, so here's what's fascinating to me is that this thing that started as a way for you to feel better and to look better and to feel better. And it sounds like also you sort of associated looking differently or losing weight in part with being one of the sources of a lot of your emotional torment. So it's sort of like in your mind that was connected, like being physically fit was something that would remove you from like, would no longer make you the source of other people's ridicule or torment and maybe

remove that source of anxiety too. But at some point, you took it to a whole different level. So if you were sharing how your mom, you know, you would get all the magazines and have pictures of the people who are in them. At some point, you decided you wanted to be one of those people. So how does that shift happen? You know, I think that because I didn't realize how much I was just making sure I was surrounded by inspiration, because I didn't have anything to model after in my own life, right? No one in my family was fit. It wasn't something that anybody put any pressure on anyone around or that held any value whatsoever, being healthy or fit or eating healthy or anything like that. So for me, it was like I knew that that was something in my mind, right?

In my young mind, it was like, okay, yes, that is going to stop all of this. And I guess that was enough inspiration for me to always want to keep it around me. So I noticed that if I would look at that every day, if I would pay attention to that, if that was in the forefront of my mind, I would find enough motivation to get outside or pop in one of my sister's VHS tapes and do a workout or move my body, right? Because moving my body, like you said, had so many different payoffs for me. It was not just like, okay, yeah, I'm going to look great. So this is going to stop that. It was also like we were talking about, I'm going to feel better. So I knew that I had to do that every day to feel good in order

to just remain in that happy place that I was discovering like, wow, there's more, there's more, there's more. Because before that it was like, I used to think, what is wrong with me? I don't even want to go outside and play with friends. I don't even want to go outside and play because I was tired, right? You eat like crap. You're not moving your body. You just want to sit and watch TV. So I think I was just surrounding myself with so much inspiration that all of a sudden it was like, I was staring at these people and staring at these covers and I thought, that's what I want to do. I want to be this inspiration for other people. I want to be this person for other people. And

that started to become a massive, that massive motivator that pulled me out every day. That became an even stronger pull than, oh yeah, you can just stop all of this. It was like, wait a minute. I want to be what these people are to me because it was like this guiding light in my life that I can't imagine if I did not have that to grab onto. And so it doesn't mean it has to be from someone close to you. It doesn't mean it has to be from someone in your family. It can be something that triggers you that's like, wow, this person is telling their story and it's affecting my life so much on a day-to-day basis that we have the ability to do that, to shift people's heart, to pull someone out of bed, to give them massive fulfillment.

And it was like a switch. I just had the awareness that maybe if I worked hard enough, I could use my story to show people that no matter where you're from, whether you're fit or not, an athlete or not, whether you have this set of hardcore beliefs that are so instilled in you that it's like, how are you ever going to even think a new way? That over enough time, you can truly believe and start to think in a new way that is empowering, that makes you happy, that makes you really be able to hear that voice in your soul that's always talking to us, right? That a lot of times we cut off through bad food or not moving or bad association or people who can really bring us down or to be in places that we don't feel great. And I am a firm believer that our bodies are always talking to us and our souls

are always talking to us. So it's just, what are the things that make you tune into that? And I knew that I wanted to teach people that because once you get connected, really, because we're just a beautiful channel, right? Once you get connected, it's like life is amazing. And we just have to tune in and have the ability to follow that message that's for us. Right. So that led you down the road of also becoming a fitness model and actually becoming a cover model on a number of magazines. I'm curious about whether when you made the decision to do that, did that trigger any of those same, I'm going to be exposed on a level that, you know, like to all sorts of numbers of people?

Or were you just like, this is the most incredible opportunity to inspire people, you know, finally, like, to tell my story to show what's possible. Because if you said your number one fear when you were a kid was this huge anxiety around public speaking, which is really being in front of people, and now you're sort of like, I'm putting my body on the cover of a magazine, which could potentially be seen by millions of people. I'm curious what the conversation in your head was around that. Yeah, definitely. There's so much that goes on in your mind on the way there. And I knew that there were so many things trying to stop me from that because I was so worried about what would all these people that I grew up with think? Would they know that I was doing it from a place of I want to inspire people, not from a place of look at me. Would

they understand that it's almost, I think a big, I'm just going to use this example so everyone can understand the way that I look at fitness and the competing world, because it can be a really beautiful thing or it can be a really not so healthy, scary place as well. So it's always how we're viewing it, right? And I really view fitness and doing all of these different things that really expose you as it's like the bait and switch. Sometimes people just need to be inspired and motivated by your abs at first in order to hear the message that you have. Because a lot of times if you just get out there with, hey, love yourself. It's so amazing. People aren't really going to listen to that always. So I want to reach all of the people in different ways. So sometimes it's going to be through

a great message or a book or amazing recipes that make them feel good. Or it's going to be, you look really fit on this cover. Let me see what her story is. And wow, where did she come from? And that's amazing. So it's like the bait and switch. It's like, that might be the bait, but let's switch it out for what actually makes human beings happy. What is this all about? So some people agree with that, some people disagree, but I really think everybody needs to be reached at a certain point. And for me, look how I was reached. It was like, all I was thinking of was this body's going to make me feel stronger and more confident. And all of a sudden I get it and realize there is so much more. So that might've been the thing that was motivating me at first,

but now the whole world has opened up to me. So yeah, a lot comes up around that. And I just had to keep focusing on that. Like, okay, I'm going to be the light at the end of the tunnel for somebody because of what I'm doing. And that had to be my biggest motivation is knowing why I was doing it and what it was truly based in. And that just kept me really on that path of faith. And whenever I would go back to faith and know that this was put in my heart for a reason, I knew that I wanted to do it. It was such a deep core desire for me that I knew it was placed there for something so much bigger. So whenever I would fall into fear, I'd be like, okay, I know that's there. And of course, there were many times when I'm not even kidding you,

there was one point where I threw myself on the bed and I was like, I'm over it. I'm never going to get a cover. This is not for me. This was a stupid idea. This is so vain. Or this is like, what's my family going to think? What are all these people going to think? And it's going to throw me into a tizzy and anxiety. And oh my gosh, what happens after this? And do I have to speak in public? And yeah, there were so many fears. But if we feed those, that's all that grows. And I knew that right away because I would feel myself going down the original spiral that I had come from. And the only way to get out of that was what? It's the only thing I knew was moving my body and going back to like faith and thinking positive thoughts. That was it. I didn't even understand the science behind what I was doing

whatsoever. I just knew I didn't want to be trapped in my personal hell that I was really good at creating anyway. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum.

Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing.

Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting, right? Because the same thing that was driving you to do so many things

was also the therapy that allowed you to find a way to be okay in the face of the uncertainty and the fear and the stress that came along with sort of like striving in those same areas, even though you may not have sort of like connected that dot at the time. But yeah, so it's sort of it's like it all, like you said, all blends together. I'm fascinated too, by what you said, sort of like you use the phrase bait and switch, which I know people have a really negative association with that phrase. But the bigger concept, I think is something which is really interesting. And I actually actually done that a number of times, I actually have a background in the fitness industry in the yoga world, too. And grew a couple of companies

in that space. And when we were building a yoga company in New York in the early days, one of the things that I was looking to do was connect the practice with some sort of large scale national consumer need. And for me, it was weight loss. And I said to myself, if I can actually show that the particular style of yoga that we taught, which was vinyasa, actually makes a meaningful difference in your ability to lose or maintain weight, that would bring people into our center. And I was okay doing that because I knew that once they were there, if they committed to the practice over time, no matter why they came to it, it would change them in so many ways that they never saw coming and they never expected.

So we ended up actually running the first ever study with the university on how many calories vinyasa yoga burned and ended up in Self Magazine and all these different things. And the benevolent marketing plan worked really well. But it was interesting because I took some heat because some people were like, well, yeah, but you're, you know, like yoga isn't about weight loss, you know, and it shouldn't be about weight loss and you shouldn't have that conversation at all. And I said, fundamentally, I said, you're right. The practice over time, it's not like you don't practice necessarily to lose weight. But if that can be something which becomes like an inciting incident, an initial motivation to bring somebody to that practice, and then have them begin it, and then it becomes a regular part of their lives, it will affect them in so many ways beyond that.

So I was okay sort of tapping that as an initial motivation. And I wasn't lying either. I mean, we actually had university research that actually showed that it was doing major things. But it's interesting because like you said, you definitely have to be willing to take a little bit of heat for that too sometimes. It's true. Because I have a lot of fitness friends who maybe aren't in fitness anymore, and they've never looked at it that way. They basically were like, oh, this ruined my life, or this ruins people's families, or just the extreme. And we've had some conversations now because I've either had them on my podcast or I've been on theirs, or we've just had really

great conversations outside of that. And really looking at how a lot of people aren't even, they're not willing to even give you their ear unless it's for something that they understand is going to give them a reward immediately, right? Because we are in this world of like immediate gratification. So it's kind of like you have to, and we all know that mindset is not immediate, like or changing your mindset and really changing your beliefs. I mean, that takes a long, it takes a long time. It's a beautiful journey. Don't get me wrong, but it's not going to be like, wow, tomorrow, like I feel amazing because I practiced this one thing. So if you can keep people coming back for what they already know is a reward system that they're familiar with

and really tune them in to what is possible that they didn't even know existed because they haven't spent enough time in that area to understand the grand payoff of, wow, I can actually change my entire belief system and what I'm living for and why I'm waking up. That's a whole conversation that people aren't even having until they can tap into their body and really understand how we can use it as a channel for so many different messages and listening to your body, right? Yeah. No, I totally agree. I mean, you have to meet people where they are and then kind of take them by the hand and walk them gently to where you know that they could be and hopefully will do the work to get there.

But yeah, I mean, what you said also about mindset being, it's funny, being not an immediate thing is so true. You know, it's a practice and it happens, the benefits happen over time. And I think sometimes when people think about shifting mindset, whether it's through meditation or mindfulness, becoming more aware, we get so frustrated because we expect things to happen quickly, especially now, you know, like there's this culture of instant and there is no, there's nothing that I've ever seen. I still haven't found a technology

that allows you to accelerate that sort of deeper opening process and neural rewiring in any kind of meaningful way other than just committed practice over time yes and you know it's funny

as it goes on you actually get excited to start a new practice of just being more mindful in certain areas. But in the beginning, it was like, because I wanted, you know, as soon as I discovered that with anxiety, because I still, you know, I still have it. I just know how to deal with it. I understand the tools to really be able to either, you know, let it pass or kind of work with it. It's like I'm friends with it now. We're not good friends, but I'm kind of like, oh, hey, you, we're acquaintances. So I'm just living with it. But I wanted that to be quick and it's just not. And I look back and I'm so grateful that it wasn't because along the way, there is so much value in the lessons that whatever you're dealing with right now is trying to tell you. And it's like, I can look at every challenging thing in my life and say, oh, that's why that was happening for so long. Or wow, I really wasn't getting the message on that one. Or whoa, I just needed to really set boundaries there. That's why this

same type of person kept on coming back in my life over and over and over again. What would be an example of that that might come to mind? For me, after I was no longer basically practicing in that religion that I was in, I had this whole world open up of, whoa, I can hang out with anyone? So then I just wanted to be loved, right? Because at the core, we all want to be loved and accepted. So I would basically bend over backwards for people just to gain their acceptance. Like when I was in my early 20s, it was like, okay, what do you, oh, you need a ride from

the bar at 3 a.m. Oh, you need somebody to drive you to work or help you pick up your apartment or whatever that it was like I was doing all of these things because I just wanted to be loved and accepted and be someone's friend. Because I've never really had like best friends in my life growing up, right? So I didn't even know what that relationship looked like. So I kept on attracting the same type of person in my life where I was like, wow, I don't feel like they would do the same for me. I only feel like it's give, give, give, give, give, but when am I going to also feel reciprocated? And this kept on appearing in my life over and over and over. And I found two

different things. I found that, number one, I had zero boundaries because I was so worried that people wouldn't love me if I wasn't doing things for them, right? People pleaser. And then the second one, I was not allowing myself to be vulnerable with other people. So I was constantly wanting to not only people please, but give to them because it made me feel good, right? I loved being able to give advice and help people, but I didn't so much love being vulnerable. So what happens though, when you're not vulnerable and you don't share maybe your struggles and you don't share what's going on in your life openly as well. And when you're constantly just,

how can I help you? No, I'm fine. I'm all good. I was the I'm all good girl. No, I'm great. I can do this by myself because I was Miss Independent, right? Leaving at 18 years old out of my house and just thought I could do everything myself. Well, that doesn't really connect you to people because you're not opening up and allowing them to help you as well. So I was only attracting people that I wanted to help because I wasn't allowing them to come in my life and for them to really connect and offer them a chance to help me. So I was feeling completely disconnected and empty because my relationships were very one-sided and I was attracting it because I wasn't allowing people to connect with me. So I had this aha moment of I can't basically get what I'm not

giving and I can't give what I'm not getting. It was really a moment of just realization that, wow, people don't, if I asked you about me, you wouldn't be able to tell me, but I could tell you all about everything about your life, but it's because I'm not sharing myself. And I'm not sure why I wasn't doing that. I think I felt safer. I think I felt if I didn't tell people about me, it was just, I had so many walls up and that's how I felt most safe is not sharing because I wasn't used to it. So vulnerability is not an easy thing, but it's one of the biggest connectors. It's how you connect. It's an equal energy exchange when you're vulnerable, they're vulnerable, you're sharing, you're helping each other. And that's really how humans connect. So that was a big aha moment for me on what needed to shift on my end. And that's when I think energetically, it was just all of these amazing people came in who were willing to reciprocate. And it was a reallyically, it was just all of these amazing people came in who were willing to reciprocate.

And it was a really beautiful, beautiful thing. That didn't come till much later. So what did you actually do to make that? Because it's not an easy thing to go from being the person who presents a facade of everything happy-go-lucky, and I'm here to help you do anything, and to going to, I'm going to let more of the vulnerable, the scare, like the part of myself that I really am nervous about being judged by to let that out. I mean, when you first started to do that, do you remember how it felt or how people responded or

how you felt? Oh, you're taking me right back. Yes, I can remember. And I'm literally getting a lot of the feelings around it. It's making tears well in my eyes because it's scary. And the first times that I really did it and I was really feeling connected and vulnerable to some people in my life, I do believe that you're going to get tested again. I think when you're doing the things that are putting you on the path to your life's purpose or that you're really living in alignment with your purpose. And just, I think that you're going to be thrown some tests again. So it was like, I got really vulnerable with some people, shared a lot about my life. And unfortunately, a couple of them used that to share with some other people and it was just a big mess.

So then what happens? Huge wall goes upright. And I was just fortunate enough to be in a place where it wasn't working for me. I was very aware when things were not working for me. And I had a friend who had mentioned a book and it was actually Gabrielle Bernstein's Spirit Junkie book. And I read the book. I actually reached out to her because it so resonated with me because just so many of the stories were what I was doing and it was not, like I said, working for me anymore. So I reached out to her because I wanted to coach with her. And she was one of the people who just was like, you have to confront this. You have to keep on being vulnerable. I know it hurts, but this is

where all the good stuff is. So I just really trusted and had faith because again, I saw someone's example before me who was showing me this is how it is. This is how life goes. These are just tests to see if you're ready for the next step or for the responsibility that comes with what you're doing. You know what? I just went all in with faith because I couldn't continue to live with the walls up. So again, I decided to just reach out and meet some other people who scared me, but who were doing great things in the world and just for other people. And I really looked up to and respected and did some really scary things. But I knew that in my heart, I wanted to connect with these people. And the only thing stopping me was fear. And we created some amazing space to be vulnerable in, just made some calls. We started masterminding together. And that was a tough conversation too. Like, oh my gosh, I'm about to be in a mastermind

with women who make me nervous, who I think are smarter than me, who are doing big things. All of these different fears come up from your childhood and just trust it. I trusted that I was making a better choice this time with the people that I was choosing because of the way that they were showing up and the vulnerability that they were showing as well. So I will continue to risk for the rest of my life, whether it turns out great or not, because I had to share with people that we can't close off. When we close off our hearts, we are so disconnected and we're so lonely and sad. And we just cut off all communication from what I believe is God, source, universe. And it's like you feel like the walking dead. So you have to keep your heart open. You have to know that there's something beautiful on the other side. And I think that it's

through our experiences and our speaking and your podcast that it's going to let people know that it's safe again, that it's worth all of the risk in the world because your message and your story needs to be heard and told so that other people can break free of the prisons that we create in our own mind. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting that so many of us have felt that, right? And we probably, you know, it's going to be a cycle. You're going to feel it again at some point in your life. And it's the chance of you happening upon a group of people or one person where you can actually, you know, like lay yourself bare and be vulnerable and be real and be accepted and then have that person, you know, like embrace you versus have somebody just completely shoot you down and reject you.

To have that happen to you, to basically have that, you know, to be rejected and to be refused when you took that first step out of the protective cave and actually shared yourself. And then to retreat, to put the walls back up, and then to come back. Not everybody does that, you know. I think a lot of us... Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be

fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Dip our toe in those waters and then it doesn't go well the first time or the second time or the third time. We're like, you know what? That's three strikes. I'm just going back and life is pretty gray, but, you know, I'm terrified of, you know, I was rejected when I tried to make it go from gray to color. So maybe this is just the lot I meant to live. And it's so

sad when that happens, because, you know, maybe that next person would be the one who would embrace you. Or maybe it's a matter of, I don't think we're taught to explore and find the communities and the people who are aligned and will embrace us for you know that weird goofy offbeat person yeah that we all are deep down i've got a lot of that so do i raising my hand over here i just now wave that weirdo flag nice and high so I can attract all the other ones. I'm like, see, it's out here. Now, when I feel really tested, when I'm really second guessing, when I feel like I really want to retreat and go to a desolate island, right? Because that's like, we all have those fantasies of like, that's it. I just want to go away from all human beings because it's hurting me. It's hurtful. It's just you're seeking comfort. Every time that happens to me, I think, whoa, there must be something so big waiting for me here because the tests are simply because God,

whatever you believe in, I'm just going to use God because he's so intertwined in my life and it's how I got out of so many different things, just so much of the pain that I was internalizing. There's something so big there that he needs to know you're ready and responsible enough to stay in it when those eyes get to you. When people start relying on you, when people start saying, whoa, I'm watching this person, right? Just like I watched all the women on the magazines, just like I watched all of these people who've gone before me and coached with all of these people, if they just disappeared because it got hard, what would that say to me?

It would say, oh, no, see, she was on the cover of a fitness magazine. She came back from all of everything that she struggled with, and now she gained all that weight back and disappeared, and she says whatever to fitness. No, you can't do that. You have to know that you are going to be ready for what comes with all of the great stuff, right? Because you know it's not easy. You and I both know that there's going to be a lot of tests along the way, but it's like you can't just hand it over to the people who are like, okay, good job. You passed one test. Awesome. You can have all that you desire and dream of now. It's not like that because you have to be sure that you are strong enough to carry on with everything that comes

with all of the beauty and all of the reward because there is a responsibility. So the more tests you have, the bigger the reward is going to be. And now I remember that. So when I'm getting tests, I'm like, nope, not strong enough yet. Nope, not strong enough yet. Okay, you're getting there. You're almost there. Okay, this didn't feel that bad this time. Okay, it's getting better. I can release it quicker. And that's been a really great thing for me to cling to. Yeah. I'm curious, how much of this is because you know it's your journey, and you know these tests are here for you. And you know, there's something extraordinary waiting on the other side. And at this point in your life, you know, you've become, I mean, you could

probably use the word role model, you become a leader, you become somebody who people look to, to set an example. There's something that's in like a spidey sense of me that's wondering how much how much of your fierceness and pushing through comes from the fact that you just you know you need to do this for yourself um versus you feel a responsibility to walk the walk and be a living example for others um oh man it it pulls me out of bed every day because I literally, so in the morning I start with a meditation or visualization right away. And the thing that I picture is actually the people shifting because I know the moment where I shifted and what that felt like. So I picture the people that maybe I'm going to show up for that day, whoever

tunes in, read something, watches a video, because all it takes is one glimmer of hope to maybe save someone's life, to maybe make somebody realize their greatness and they can pay that forward and pay that forward. And I don't think people realize what they're doing and how one sentence or one thing on social media can really shift the entire world. Because I love the quote, it's, our sadness can't do anything, but our happiness can elevate the world. So I'm always picturing people and what that moment of shift is going to be like. So I think when I wake up every day, yes, I want to be happy. I want to feel good. I want to feel tuned in, but that's only going to get me so far. It's when I'm really

thinking about other people is when I'm pulled. I'm literally pulled out of bed in the morning because I know that someone or something is waiting. But of course, it feels good to do it for myself. But if you want true purpose, that's when you realize the bigger picture of, man, we are just here to give love, to share love, to share hope, to be a beacon, to be a channel, whatever, you know, whenever you discover your purpose, that's when it's that magical moment of knowing why you were put on this earth. Yeah, I wonder, I mean, it's an impossible question to answer, but I wonder how much it's almost like it comes full circle, right? Because pretty much any faith, one of the core tenets of pretty much literally every single faith on the planet is that it's steeped in service of others.

It sounds like that's remained. I'm guessing that was probably a part of your upbringing. That's probably remained a really, really, really bedrock part of who you are. You know what? I really do believe it's everything. It's everything. Nothing is even worth it until it's shared, right? That's all we want to do is you get happy and then all of a sudden you're like, well, this isn't so great if I'm alone. It's always wanting to share.

And I think that's my whole purpose, our whole being my husband and I just feel blessed to be able to share, to have people to share with, to, you know, to really have had the past, to be able to use that, to connect to people and let them know that there's so much more and everything that they are going through is for a purpose. And that's to share it and to show people that, you know, you can find happiness through whatever you're going through right now and purpose as well. Yeah. So we haven't actually kind of like come full circle with what you're up to now. So there was a chunk of time where you kind of went deep down the fitness rabbit hole and were doing a lot of modeling and stuff like that.

But then you also shared earlier in a conversation that there was a wake-up call from that too, which led to a shift into a desire to serve people differently. And I think we can probably gather a lot of the ways that you're doing that differently now, but just really tell me what you're up to now, because I'm curious what the fuller picture is. Okay, I'm just going to tell you real quick that I did the whole fitness thing. I did fitness competitions. It's like I had finally gotten those covers after years and years and years. I mean, there was literally probably 40 different times I was turned down, no joke, which is fantastic, right? I was like, I'm going to get this. You just don't know it yet. So after it all happened, it's like I thought that was it.

I thought that I thought I was going to feel fulfilled. I thought I was going to be like, I thought that was it. I thought that I thought I was going to feel fulfilled. I thought I was going to be like, yes, life is amazing. But what I found was I felt even more empty. I was like, how is this possibly happening? Because I thought that it would just be, all these different things would come into my life. And it just did not happen that way. If you don't actively use all of the titles and really use it as a platform for yourself, nothing comes of it. The month is over, your magazine cover's over, people forget, they don't know who you are. It's just like, it's not what people think it is. And people, I know a lot of women who are even more depressed afterward because they put so much hope into thinking their life would be totally different and fulfilled after that,

but that's not where fulfillment comes from. And so that was a huge message for me was, whoa, wait a minute, fulfillment is not coming from accomplishments because I spent a majority of my life thinking accomplishments would do that because I never accomplished anything, right? So I looked at people who were accomplishing things and I thought that was it. So by the time I did that, I got addicted to accomplishment. It was like, okay, well, maybe I need this. Okay, well, maybe I need this. And it was giving me this high, but then this massive letdown. And so after waking up and going, whoa, this is not where it's at. This is fantastic. And this is great because I can use this for a platform later, which is what

I realized, thank goodness. But it was in the paying forward. It was in the building community. It was in those moments that were quiet one-on-one in my gym when I was training somebody and we were talking about how good working out is making them feel, how it's making their relationships better, how they were helping people in their family, how their kids are feeling better, how their relationships with their husband are improving, the emails that would come in around just how their lives were changing. Those were the moments where I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes. This is it. This is it. Not all of this other stuff. And I had to start getting to the point of, if nothing ever happened again, if I never got another cover, if I didn't get to be Jillian Michaels, if I didn't get X, Y, and Z, this is where I would be happy the rest of my life. And it was getting to that

point of knowing that it wasn't all the other things. Yes, they were great. They were amazing bonuses along the way. And I highly recommend going towards your dreams. But at the same time, it's knowing that right now in this moment, where you're at, what you're going through, what you're able to do, who you're able to affect, who you can hold the door for, who you can smile at, how present can you be? This is it. This is all there is. It is it. Like, this is it.

Yeah. No, it's a powerful moment when you sort of like awaken to the reality that that's actually what it's really all about when it comes down to it, when you're strict bear. It's so true. So I want to come full circle with you. So the name of this is Good Life Project. So if I offer that term out to you to live a good life, what comes up? What does it mean to you? Being really present to what does happiness mean to you? Not what do you think it should mean, but what does that mean to you? And really connecting to a higher power. That's what it means to me. It means connecting in every single day and listening to how I can show up

and how I can serve and making sure I'm nurturing my relationships. And just, could I have done more today? Just looking at the day and saying, what can I do today that could help somebody else? And knowing that when my head hits the pillow that I did that, that's just, if I could wake up every day and know that, that is a good life to me. Thank you. Thank you so much. Hey, thanks so much for listening. We love sharing real unscripted conversations and ideas that matter. And if you enjoy that too, and if you enjoy what we're up to, I'd be so grateful if you

take just a few seconds and rate and review the podcast. It really helps us get the word out. You can actually do that now right from the podcast app on your phone. If you have an iPhone, you just click on the reviews tab and take a few seconds and jam over there. And if you haven't yet subscribed while you're there, then make sure you hit the subscribe button while you're at it. And then you'll be sure to never miss out on any of our incredible guests or conversations or riffs. And for those of you, our awesome community who are on other platforms, any love that you

might be able to offer sharing our message would just be so appreciated until next time. This is Jonathan Fields signing off for good life project. We'll be right back. X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.