Good Life Project - Marin Hinkle | A Marvelously Real Life

Episode Date: December 10, 2019

Marin Hinkle plays matriarch, Rose Weissman, on the Amazon Original series, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, which just released its third season. You may also recognize Hinkle from her long-running role as Judith on Two and a Half Men, and so many other contributions in theater, TV, and film. We’re huge fans of Marin, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, and the entire ensemble cast. As we sat down with her in the studio, we discovered not just an incredible actor, but also someone who radiates kindness, warmth, and generosity of spirit, someone who is beautifully open, someone who left us feeling like we’d just spent time with an old friend. In today's conversation, we explored Hinkle's time growing up outside Boston, her love of the ocean and devotion to ballet in the early days that, after an injury, created the space for acting to emerge while at Brown and take center stage. We talk about the people who’ve touched down and served as teachers and mentors and explore candidly the tough decisions that came along the way as she stepped into the business of acting, the many learnings and how family began to take more of the spotlight over time. Marin also shares her very human experience with pain and how her time on The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel became not just a job for her, but also a source of awakening and discovery, peace and ease.-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So my guest today is Maren Hinkle, a wonderful actor who you may know from her years on the stage, her long running role as Judith on Two and a Half Men, so many other popular TV shows and films. She currently plays Rose Weissman on the Amazon mega hit, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, which as this conversation airs, actually just released its third season. I'm a huge fan of Maren, of the show, the entire ensemble cast.

As I sat down with her in the studio though, it wasn't just her mastery of the craft that drew me in. It was her kindness, her generosity of spirit, her openness and warmth that kind of left me feeling like I had just spent time with a dear old friend. We explored her time growing up outside of Boston, her love of the ocean and devotion to ballet in the early days that, after an injury, created the space for acting to emerge while at Brown and then eventually take center stage as she navigated building a career as a performer. We talk about the people who've touched down and served as teachers and mentors and explore candidly the tough decisions

that came along the way as she stepped into the business of acting, the many learnings and how family eventually became more of a spotlight in her life over time. And Maren also shares her very human experience with chronic pain and how her time on The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel became not just a job for her, but also a source of awakening and discovery, and even on some level, peace and ease.

So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum.

Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing.

Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. But it's so nice to be hanging out with you.

I know it's curious because you've been out in L.A., I guess, for a long time now, right? It's so funny. I was about to say not that long, and then it actually has been a couple decades. It's like nearly 20 years. I know. You have the kids, and then it's really true that it goes so fast. But New England, I mean, I grew up just outside of New York City. You grew up just like Newton, right?

Outside of Boston, right. Right. It's in your blood. It's always in my blood. I feel like I'm an East Coast kid. I don't know that I will, even if I spent, which I don't think I will, the rest of my time on the West, I think I'll always say I'm an East Coast kid. Right. It's almost like bragging rights.

Were you at the Cape a lot when you were a kid also? Were you kind of like a water kid? Yeah. Thank you for asking. You know, my name, Maren, has mer, which means of the sea. So I sort of fancied myself a bit of, I guess, a fish. And so I did. I loved the water.

I loved pools. But more than that, I did love the ocean. And so did my mom. My mom grew up in Minnesota and that's the land of 10,000 lakes, but she didn't see, she wasn't east of the Mississippi until she got into post-college. And that's another story, met my dad and headed off to the Peace Corps. But we did, my mom and dad worked really, really hard, but they took about one or two weeks off every year, and they did end up renting a place every year in Cape Cod. And they would travel around the different parts of the Cape, and we would just go to these little kind of shacks, almost and building sandcastles and looking at little horseshoe crabs and, you know, trying to find sea glass. And I do think that kind of, that part of romanticism or, you know, just kind of that imaginary life that comes out of playing in the sand and by the water is something that probably fed me later on. Yeah. As you're describing that, I'm having flashbacks actually. I grew up just outside of

the city on Long Island and in what would have been in great Gatsby's East Egg, the actual town. So the end of my block was a beach. It was the bay. So I so get what you're saying. And if I was stressed, if I just need to be alone, if I need to think, I would just go down there and just I would climb up on top of like the little shack where like the lifeguards would hang out. Oh, I love that. And just sit and just like nothing had to happen. There's just something magical about being around like the sound and the wash and the feel of the salt there. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. When my boy ended up, I have this only child,

and he luckily loves, loves, loves the ocean too. Although he's gotten older, there's something about teenage years where I don't think it's as cool to say you love the ocean. I don't know why, unless you're a surfer. Right. Right, unless you're a surfer. Well, it's kind of cool to say you don't love anything.

Yes, exactly. Thank you. That's very true. Very true. But anyway, I remember it was that huge reality, great check where I thought, wait a minute, I'm so worried sometimes, overly worried about him until I take him to the beach because I loved, loved, although of course I had to be worried that he would, you know, drown or something.

But I did, I did love the fact that he who who loved to run as far and as fast as he could on the beach, it was just so delightful to see that he could fall and then stand back up and fall and stand back up and not get hurt. So I loved that about it. It's like the sand stuff is cool. Yeah, the sand stuff is a good, yes, exactly. Also there's ice cream. Let's talk about ice cream for just a silly moment, which is, so my mom, again, grew up in the Midwest, and she is an ice cream fanatic. And I didn't quite realize until I moved to the West Coast, or even maybe came to school here in New York,

that there's something about New England, and parts of the Midwest, too. They're just the dairy. But in Cape Cod, I think you can't go a block without a different ice cream store. And so one of the other things I loved about my memories was just sort of like sitting outside with the ice cream cone in it, sort of like, you know, sort of like trying to lick it as fast as possible. So my son's first

taste of like something sugary was the ice cream cone he had when he was one. And it's, I just, that's a silly memory perhaps, but it's one of those ones that will be indelible forever. That's, so that's like literally he remembers that. Yeah, he does. Well, you know what? I think we took pictures. So perhaps he's remembering the photo. Refreshed his recollection a few times. See, that was it. You had to like ice cream if you're from this family. So when you were, when you were younger, your, so your mom was a judge for many years. Was she sort of a practicing lawyer before that? Yeah. So the story sort of of my parents is that my mom had finished college at a Catholic women's college in Minnesota called St. Catherine's.

And she graduated quite early. She was young and maybe like 18-ish. My dad had gone to school. He was from upstate New York. He had gone to school at Dartmouth and then had come to law school, straight to law school, and was making his parents very happy with that, but wasn't making himself happy with that. So he did some student teaching while in law school. He was actually at Harvard, which, you know, it's funny. It wasn't until I was applying to college that I was asking him where he went to colleges. He just never

bragged about such things. And he said, well, I went to Dartmouth for undergrad and then Harvard for graduate school. I remember, and then Columbia actually got a PhD. I was writing it all down. I said, Dad, you know, I guess I was 17 or something at the time. I said, you never told me that. He said, well, there wasn't any need to, which I thought was so interesting. But anyway, he wasn't happy there and did the student teaching. And he decided that he would want to pursue more life of an educator and academia.

So they both joined the Peace Corps. They met at Columbia. They were doing a teacher's college program that then they learned Swahili and they were learning a variety of things. And then they went overseas to Dar es Salaam in Tanzania in East Africa for four years. So this would have been early 80s then, right? Thank you. That's so sweet of you to say that. That was 1960 around. Thank you. That's very darling.

Yes. So they met and fell in love there. And when they came back to tell their parents all about it, they decided they would actually go back and do more work there. And I think my dad actually traveled back before. So they got married. I should say that. And then they traveled back. Dad went first. And then mom followed suit.

And I think the story is, and I don't know if this is like, you know, these things grow in the years that follow the lore, right? But the lore says that she stopped off in, let's say it was Sweden. I'm just going to throw that out. And had a stopover for a day or two or something and was not feeling well and was having morning sickness, but didn't realize it as such. And then by the time she landed in Africa, who knows if it was exactly when she landed or if a day or so later she ended up realizing that she was pregnant with me. So I was born there. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I was a little Peace Corps baby.

Ah, that's amazing. Did the whole family come back fairly soon after that? Or were you actually there for a while? Yes, that's a great question. So I think that we were going to stay longer had I not been conceived of. But within the year, they came back. And the very place my dad was doing his student teaching was in Newton. And so he just remembered those were extraordinary great public schools.

And that was a really significant and important thing for them was to raise their children. And at that point, they didn't have a second child. My brother was born two years later, but they decided that that would be a great place to start a family. So they weren't from that area, but they decided that to have children there would be great. Yeah. Because your dad eventually, he really, he pursued education for- Yes. Sorry. That was your question. Yes. So dad then, he did a variety of jobs in the education world. He was an education advisor to the governor of Rhode Island. At one point, he worked for something called New England Board of Higher Education, and then he ended up as a teacher. And then at some point, not long after I think I got back to, no, I was more like three, I think, my mom's dad passed away. And he had been an incredibly important part of her life. And he was the superintendent of schools in her little hometown. And I think she had vowed when she was younger that she would either be a doctor or a lawyer

and just sort of, you know, wasn't there yet and maybe wasn't even sure about that and was loving being a teacher. But it was right around that time she said, you know, I'm going to do law school. And so she went to Boston College and she was one of the older people in the class and one of the only women.

She did really well there. And after she graduated, she ended up clerking for a judge. And then she ended up working in a wonderful law firm downtown. And then that kind of segued into working for a variety of other jobs legally and ended up assistant U.S. attorney and then ended up a superior court judge. Yeah. When you were a kid, did curious whether sort of seeing your mom build this career and be in a career and move through the career in a way also where there weren't a lot of women in certain positions. Yeah. Did she share that with you as she was navigating it? Or was there a moment where you and her sort of sat down and you learned more about what that was like for her? Yeah, it's so funny.

I always delighted in going out with my girlfriends and my mom because they would ask a lot of questions to my mom. But it was interesting. I don't think my mom was as open. She's not an incredibly, what's the best way to put this? She doesn't talk about herself very much. I think she's amazingly modest. And so she didn't share that much. And she's very private, too.

And perhaps that's partially coming from that generation. It wasn't a person that was going to think about being therapized, for instance. And she was also the oldest of four. So there's also that too. You're sort of like, you're not going to fall apart ever. You're going to take care of everybody. So we would all sit down, my girlfriends and my mom, and they would ask questions to her about like, how would you do this? They were in quite awe of her career. And she was more open with them about some of those choices. But with me, she didn't really talk about it very much. And it wasn't until later when I got into college and would be hanging around with some of my college girlfriends. And then they, too, would be meeting my mom at sort of an older time and say, that's outstanding what your mother's done.

And then you kind of do this, like, turn around and look back and go, yeah, that really was outstanding. And she never, ever complained. And she never talked about the difficulties of trying to do it all. And she, you know, I never saw her sort of, not that this would have been a problem. I maybe would have embraced this, too. Like, I never saw her cry about or seem incredibly vulnerable about how hard it must have been to balance like not being at home with my brother and me at times because her work life was very, very intense.

I mean, she didn't get home. Often she picked me up from ballet at like six or seven or so, but she really worked on weekends all the time. And yeah, and she also was cooking for us and she was, you know, president of the student like PTA and she was, you know, just doing all sorts of things and incredibly generous and volunteering in the community. And so I honestly think all the time she was sort of a superhero. And I am so appreciative of that. Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting also that it's almost like there was a bit of a baton that feels like it was handed off. Like this thing that your dad started and thought that he was going to go and then pulled back from. That she took over.

And then at a later point, like your mom, not that he in any way gave her permission or opened the door. That's not what I'm saying at all. But it's interesting how sort of like then, like there came a time where she said, no, actually this is what I, this is the path I want. That's so true. You know, I think that wasn't always easy on my father in terms of like, if you would go to all this sort of, let's say there were holiday parties at the law firm or something. I think that my dad has a beautiful sense of self in that I don't think he would be hurt by that, but I think it's sort of the opposite. I'm not sure that he always felt that others understood that path. And the idea that he was home at an earlier hour than my mom was home. And I didn't say my mom cooked, but my dad actually shared in the

cooking too. And my dad did a lot more around the house than other dads that I knew at the time. And that was a very special thing in my father. And I always admired that too. And I said, my mom was so humble. I think my dad, back to that original thing I told you, my dad is incredibly humble. And that's actually the quality that I always think about in terms of how I've tried to raise my child, too, is something that I hope they taught me, and I know they taught my brother. But they're sort of amazing that way. Yeah, it sounds like it.

And it sounds like you also, I mean, it sounds like one of your big things when you were younger also was dance, was ballet. When does that start to really become a central focus for you? You know, it's funny. My mom joked later, again, I don't know if this is lore or if this was truth. So we did go away and spent, like when I was maybe four. So this was a little earlier than when my mom decided to go to law school. So it was right after I think my grandpa had passed.

We were in Italy and Germany, and my dad was teaching overseas there. And apparently I had so much energy and my mom was a little tired. So she did turn to a dance teacher and put me in with about four other little baby ballerinas. And I fell madly in love. And it was, so again, it had nothing to do with artistry. It was much more fundamental. It's like this kid is exhausting and she's jumping up and down too much. So I did a lot of dance, partially just probably to get rid of a lot of extra energy,

or at least that's what my mom was hoping, right? And then it just like a little light switch went on about it, particularly when we got back to Boston and I auditioned for my first Nutcracker by the age of five. Oh, wow. And it was really young. And I was, you know, the music, Tchaikovsky's music comes on. And as a child, I found there was nothing more magical for me than seeing a nutcracker come from a little wooden soldier with all of a sudden some fairy dust happening. And then all of a sudden it was a grand man. And, you know, to watch sort

of all the candies come into actual dancers' lives and bodies and dance for you. I, it was, I was like hook, line, and sinker in and did that now from that point for another 10 years and thought that I would maybe pursue a life as a ballerina. That was probably not always easy for my parents. I think they didn't know that much about dance or really the artistic professional lives. That was not sort of in their background.

So I think as I started spending my summers going to the SAB school, you know, New York City Ballet School, they were on board, but with kind of like hesitance. And there was always the encouragement that my studies were going to have to like be, you know, solidly taken seriously and that that would be a great backup. And so it wasn't until I was 15 or 16 that something happened that really was a crossroads in my life where I got injured. serious depression, partially because, you know, like a gymnast, a dancer's body is being kept sort of like as in proportions of usually, you know, I was 16, looked like I was about 10 or something. Right. And so in that time period, when I had the injury, I watched my body in about four months go from whatever, I don't even remember, we don't have to talk about pounds, but from a very tiny little life thing to sort of a young woman. And that was a very, very complicated time for me. I think I probably had somewhat of a depression as a result of that. And my parents didn't really understand

what to do with that. And that was a really tricky and sad time. And anyway, around that time, I also kind of was deciding I would be looking into colleges. And so I applied to schools. It was junior year. And I ended up getting into Brown. And that sort of took me off into another chapter. Yeah. I mean, when you went to Brown, was acting the thing that you were thinking about there? Or was it kind of like in the background and somehow when you were there, you found your way into it?

Yeah. It's always so funny when looking back, I know we were talking a little bit about our children and what happens in college. It's just, it's extraordinary, isn't it? You can't plan. You cannot plan a thing. This is what I'm doing. Oh, no, you're not.

Oh, no, you're not. Oh, no, you're not. And probably the more that a parent, like, asserts any kind of, like, guidance, the less likely that the child will go in that direction. So my parents, you know, they had a bit of a heavy hand at times, I think, on making sure I was choosing good courses and, you know, all that. I was taking philosophy and classics and art history. And, you know, I even took physiology and I was thinking biology. And I really, no idea. But I did find myself, you know what I was doing? I was doing some gentle dance classes

because I wasn't never going to be able to dance like I had. And it was kind of, I was having a lot of sadness about that. But that would move me over a little bit into the theater. And I had done a few plays and I'd been part of some music stuff growing up and musicals too. I don't have a good singing voice though. But I auditioned for about 10 to 15 plays at that college and didn't get in any of them. And I would just continue to push myself and go watch them. And I was seeing the likes of people like Laura Linney was there at the time or Tim Blake Nelson. I mean, extraordinary actors. And Daisy Prince, Hal Prince's daughter, was there. I mean, we had the likes of these kids that had some of whom had been on Broadway already.

And I think what happens sometimes, of course, as you know, again, about this yourself and also from your child, which is if somebody really special comes into our life and bumps up against us when we're young, that guides us so much. And so I think of someone like Laura as a mentor who sort of probably changed the course of my life because what she was doing, I had never seen before. I didn't see a lot of plays growing up. I can't even, I think I saw some Gilbert and Sullivan. I can't even remember if I saw any plays. I honestly don't know if I did. I saw plays in my age on stage transform into other likes of sorts of folk. And, you know, Ben Shankman was there, this wonderful actor, and he was playing a grandfather. And honestly, I watched him, you know, from his 18-year-old self be a 70-year-old man on stage. And I thought, wait, that's the thing I used to do growing up that I loved, is to transform. And I loved doing it as a dancer. And now I could use

language and do it. So it was this whole light bulb thing. And I went, okay, I think I want to do that. That's amazing. I mean, it's also so fascinating to me that you saw that. And I think we all have flashes where we see moments like that. We see people like that. There are opportunities. And you kind of, you have to make a choice. Or your brain tends to respond in one of two ways. Either one is, that is so astonishing. I could never come close to approximating that. I'm not even going to try. or that is just so astonishing. I just want to be around it and let's see what happens. So I'm always fascinated by which one of those sort of a person is a person's response. Yeah, that is absolutely true. There are plenty of things in the world that I've watched, like someone plays tennis and I say, wait a minute, I'm not going to go there. That's extraordinary what they're doing. I can't even pick up a racket and hit one ball. Or, you know, I'm that way about watching like a great skier. You name it. There's so many things

I can't do. I mean, just my son is amazing when it comes to like his mathematical brain. And I even look at it and go, I just don't know how. And I'm not very good at deciding to push myself through my ignorance. But there was something in the way that they were on stage that must have sparked in me the thought, not just, oh, my God in my dance life what it meant to sort of give off something to a group of people watching. And maybe that was like familiar language, right? So mom accidentally threw me into dance class to let go of energy. But what she didn't know is she was sowing the seeds of a performer who really liked the feel of engaging with audience. And this is interesting, and I've never thought about this. My parents, my mom grew up in a Catholic family, my dad's a Protestant, and the two of them, there were some interesting things that happened.

They were bringing us to churches that were sort of in both ideals you know, in both ideals of thinking and of philosophy and of religious background. And there came sort of a friction moment in which I think it was the priest, to be honest, that said that we would have to make a choice. And I had been baptized, so I think it was supposed to be that was the choice you were going to go towards. And I then was pulled out of both worlds. And the community I grew up in, most of my friends were Jewish.

And I was so interested in Judaism. And many of my friends were really excited to teach me about it. So it was interesting. I wasn't going to temple and I wasn't going to church, but the first time I actually felt like I was in something that felt like those places and that I belonged was in the theater. And maybe that's something else that kept me inspired and going forth when I was in college. Yeah. It's so fascinating the way you frame that. I've thought a lot about spiritual traditions and looked at and studied a whole bunch of

different ones. And one of the things that I've noticed is that every single one that endures in some meaningful way always has three elements. They have the congregation, they have the teachings, and they have the teacher. Different names, depending on what it is. Yes. But it's almost like those three elements were there in the setting that you were exploring in the context of theater. You're absolutely right.

That's exactly right. Because I really do have these memories of sitting, I was going to say the pews, but it wasn't a pew. It was the, you know, the audience and seeing, as I said, these peers of mine get up and sort of lead me somewhere. And I forgot, and I was transported, or I was inspired, or I was connected in a way that was beyond what I, you know, the other parts of my life. So I couldn't really put words to that. I just found myself elated at the end. And then I kind of thought, how can I be part of that? Yeah.

And especially coming out of something where you devoted so much of your life to dancing, to this practice, and then had it kind of taken away in a very short period of time. Really quickly. Right. So it's not like you have a window of expectation where you can adjust and prepare for it. And then it's like you deal with the trauma. And as you said, some level of feeling depressed. And then you find this new thing.

And it's like, oh, I can step into this sense of community and belonging and purpose. Yeah. So when you graduated Brown, you might have been in Tisch, right? Was that right after? I did, yeah. Right. Yeah, so there was this, this is funny too, like the road not taken, right? My mom used to always read me the Robert Frost poem, and she would talk about that in terms of her own life and some of her choices.

And the moment that she sort of made a different choice and went towards the law. Oh, that's interesting, too. I'll just throw out there, at one point before she met my father, she had thought that she might become a nun. So that's just another road. Actually, that road was not taken. And maybe that, in this case, was good. I would not be here talking to you. But this junior year at Brown was a really significant crossroads time.

And I was going to go do a semester in Africa. And ironically, Brown had a program in East Africa in Dar es Salaam, the very place I was born. I was all set to do that. And I heard from a variety of people that there was a really great theater program, a little different than East Africa. And it was in Waterford, Connecticut, the O'Neill Theater Center. So my parents were not happy. I don't think about that. So we all drove there and sat there through the day and met the person that was George White, I think, was running the program. And I fell in love with that program. And I look back, I go, oh my God, isn't it interesting if I hadn't done this? So at that

program, I got in and I went there for the semester. I did not go to Africa. I think parents had a hard time with it. But that was where I realized you really, at least me, I could really be well-served by training, like some serious training. I wasn't going to be the kid that was going to get on an airplane, land in Los Angeles and say, here I am world, right? Get me an agent. I know how to audition. I didn't know anything. So I learned a lot that semester. I got cast in a small theater company in Chautauqua, New York. And that place taught me that I would need to do grad school. Me, Maren would, not everybody. I know so many actors who did not need that. Wouldn't have been right for them.

So I did. I auditioned at NYU, Juilliard, Yale. Got into NYU. It was absolutely the right place for me. And I ended up here in New York for the next years and then for the next sort of decade after that doing theater. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,

whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.

Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk. Did you stay in touch with, because Laura ended up at Juilliard.

That's right. Also, right? That's right. Did you guys still stay in touch? I did, yeah. I had a boyfriend from college who ended up at Juilliard. So I would kind of drive in to visit him and I would go in to see Laura again, just a little chapter later, I'd see her in her shows then. And I still, every time, I don't see her very often. I recently saw her at the Emmys. We actually left the room at the same point

to go into the Governor's Ball and I saw her and gave her a huge hug. And I don't even know, I'm still a little tongue tied around her. I don't know if I've ever, you're maybe the first time I've ever actually put out there, like how much, maybe that's what I need to do. I need to write her and tell her like that she's such been such a significant part because I love, love, love watching her work. Yeah. She's, it's funny. I have this weird flash connection with her. In the early 2000s, I owned a yoga studio in Hell's Kitchen and You did. And all of our students came. They were in the theater because that's where we were. For those who don't know, this is sort of like the heart of the theater district.

Yeah. So everyone was coming off the stage, and it was all some actors and singers and dancers. And Laura was, while we were there, she was doing a run at a theater which was nearly two blocks away. Sight unseen. So she called the studio one day, and she which was, you know, like two blocks away. Sight unseen. So she called the studio one day and she's like, hey, I need someone to come and teach me yoga. So for a couple of months, I would meet her up in like the top balcony and we would just hang out and practice, you know, like on above all of the seats.

And she was just such a gracious, kind person. And I remember the conversation. She was also really, she was so committed to the humanity of what she was doing and also to the entire field of acting. She has very strong beliefs about equality and equity and the way that things should happen. And I was always so blown away by just her presence and her value system and her kindness, just her grace. Well, her father, you know, Romulus Linney is not alive any longer, but was an extraordinary playwright. And when I got out of NYU, I wasn't one of those people that had the agent bang right away. So there are many years of really pounding the pavement and doing a lot of off off

broadway theater and my first job i think one of my first jobs or maybe it was the first one that paid me a little bit it was um a subway token is what we got at the end it was um they gave us a little thank you card that said here's a token of our appreciation it was the signature theater downtown that's now an extraordinarily big robust robust theater doing a lot of plays run by an extraordinary man, James Houghton, who has sadly since passed. But Laura Linney's dad, Romulus, was the first season of his plays because The Signature does one playwright for an entire season, and he was the first playwright that they chose. And so I got cast in a couple of those

plays. How full circle is that? That's amazing. Yeah. That's super cool. Yeah. So when you're at NYU, I had some friends that were there, probably not at the exact same time for you, but right around then. That was the time, and I've heard stories, where Paul Walker and Ron Van Loo. Yeah, you got it. Sounds like you had experience with him. Yeah, well, Paul, see, and there you go. So Paul, you know, different people sort of become these like benchmarks of educators that guide and teach and inspire.

And I would say Paul Walker and Ron Van Loo, the two you just mentioned, are two of the people that really maybe taught me the most about how I would want to be as an actor. And I think about this often. I tell this funny story about Paul where we had these fairs where after maybe four or five months of doing your work in classroom,

you would, I don't know why they called it a fair, it wasn't very fun, but they would have you talk to your teacher about what you need to work on and the problems that you had. And Paul Walker at one point had this, he was like an elf. He was a magical elf and he was my games teacher. You know this, right? So he would teach us all these ways and you would free yourself up. And I would do these improvs in his class. And I guess

almost all my improvs, I kept coming back to being a very strong feminist. And I wanted to be taken seriously. And I even have to drop my voice, take me seriously. I'm saying a lot and I'm an intellect. And so sometimes they would throw out sort of maybe quirkier, odder, like even people that weren't politically incorrect, you know, that were people that were more frail and people that were, you know, whatever, you know, different walks of life. And I remember he said to me with this big smile in my fair, Maren, I just love what you bring to the class. But I think we have to be a little less brown. And I was like, is he making a racist? As in capital B, Brown.

Yes. Is he being racist about some sort of color of my skin? And then he was like, no, I mean the college. And I was like, bing, bing, bing. I think I understand. It was that everything I was doing was like something that I would have believed in while I was at Brown. But, you know, I needed to be other types of people than just like a kid coming from Brown University College at that time, you know. And I think about that often with various roles I get and parts of me that are getting judgmental about playing someone as if I know better than what that

character is about something. And I can't really portray it in that way. I have to make sure I'm commenting. And then I would think of Paul who would say, no, no, no, just be there. You don't need to be so Brown University. Yeah. It must not have been easy. I mean, it's funny because when you come from this, especially when you come from a place where I would imagine, so you grow up strong parents with strong beliefs who are, and then you go to Brown, which is like a school with a lot of strong beliefs also. empowerment and here's the way things should be. But the fundamental nature of this craft that you have said yes to almost requires you to suspend that. Not almost, it requires you to suspend it. There's got to be this internal struggle, which is like... You just touched on something. So when I graduated from NYU, I had to present myself to agents and managers and all that sort of, let's be honest, I had to enter the world of the professional actor rather than being the actor of, you know And they gave us some scenes we were going to do for everybody.

And I had to figure out what I was going to wear. And I was a person that liked to cover up my body. And so I would choose these dresses and clothes that were quite baggy. And people would comment on that. People meaning maybe some of the teachers at the school or such. And I was so resistant to it. Again, I was still holding on to, like, I can be exactly what I want to be. And I don so resistant to it. Again, I was still holding on to like, I can be exactly what I want to be. And I don't want to wear some stupid tight dress.

And sure enough, I entered the world saying, I'm not going to do it that way. And sure enough, guess what? Many a time, whether it was like meeting new agents and trying to, you know, create a new relationship with them or going to casting directors and sort of hearing some feedback, I was actually told through, sometimes through those new agents I was trying to get signed by, that you are not, you got to actually change what you're dressing like.

You have to sell yourself more. You have to, I mean, I was testing for a couple of TV series at one point a few years later, and they actually said, like, somebody has to take that girl shopping so we can get her into some clothes that show off the body. So back to what you were saying, these are things that my mother and father wouldn't have the hardest time with. And I, too, was having the hardest time.

And Brown University was telling me, you know, no, I'm not going to be that kind of person. And yet the business side was asking me to sort of fit certain ideals or molds. And there was talk at one point, and I was discussing this yesterday, actually, with somebody. And they were like, really? How many years ago? I said, well, it's been a couple of decades. But there was named talk, should we change the name from Henkel? This was not something I came up with. This was an agent saying, you might be cognizant that this sounds a certain way and

this is going to limit you. And I was like, what are you talking about? What are you really saying? And then there were stuff about my nose. My nose is a little different, not tiny or something. And there was a talk, well, had you thought of maybe taking off a little or have you thought, I once got feedback that was at a very, very high level. I almost got this very, very important job. And they said, you have, these were the quotes, this was, you have bones in real life, but not on camera. And I remember like sort of sobbing and saying, I don't quite understand. And they were like, you know, cheekbones and jawbone. And these were, these were things that I had, I had reckoned with as a dancer, like the physique is so all important there. But I guess I

had hoped maybe that the world of theater and then later the world of TV and film would allow me to have a body that was not so sort of one type cookie cutter-y. But I was still finding that I was bucking up against some of these things that were really difficult for me to reconcile. Yeah. I mean, how do you process that? I mean, at any age, but especially at that age? Well, since this is a place where one speaks frankly and vulnerably, I suffered at that point from an eating disorder. And I think that was something that my mom, I ended up telling my mom about later, many years after. My girlfriends that I was living with ended up being extraordinary and doing an intervention and guiding me towards therapy.

So I had to really talk through and work through that. And I think, so you asked, you know, how did I get through that? I think it was a lot of therapy, a lot of admitting that I was lost and needing support from others so that I could turn around when I felt so hurt by the business and sort of share with others in group therapy to other people, other actresses that were going through similar things. But I still kind of grapple with these things, as I'm sure pretty much all people do. And particularly in this business, I know a lot of women. Two nights ago, we had a premiere for the TV show I'm working on, Maisel. And at one point, I'd gone through the red carpet. I had circled back to say hello to the rest of the cast members.

And someone yelled out, hey, Maren, could we do a couple more shots? And I thought to myself, well, I don't have a publicist right now. So I guess I should go back for more of these photos that are supposed to be helpful for something. And I went back and what I heard was, could you turn around? And so I turned around, but then I was confused. Why am I, I don't even know why I'm turning around. And this particular male photographer was like, I actually just want to get your back. And I was like, well, and I guess it was that they wanted the back of the dress, but I was so caught. Like, am I going to really right now, like answer to the objectification

of like either the body or the dress or the bottom or what? I'm 53. We don't need to see, we don't need to see that from anyone really, but whatever. It was just a moment where I went, wait, it still happens that this business asks of me to do things I don't necessarily want to do. And the question is, what am I comfortable with? I would imagine as you grow, as you become more of an individual, as you explore your own humanity, your own values, that it's like an evolutionary process. And at the same time, you've got to evolve and figure out your own inner sense of what's okay with me while still working in this bigger container of an industry that has been known for generations to have a certain lens and value set. And I think it's, I think it's, you know, like powerful that now in the last couple of years, we're starting to see some cracks in that. But yeah, I mean, I can't imagine at the earliest days coming into this thing where you've devoted yourself to something, you've studied the craft, you've educated yourself, and then you step out into the actual world and say, okay, I want to do this.

And the world says, well, the craft matters. Yeah. And there's something more. Yeah. And then kind of having to navigate that and build a career doing it. And go home back to that extraordinary woman we brought up earlier in this interview, my mother. And I feel like there's still a little girl, right? That we always have that side of ourselves as our parents' child. And I often

think, you know, would this role that I'm about to potentially do make my mom happy? And sometimes, or if I'm going to audition, they ask me to do something that feels uncomfortable with this, you know, there's the barometer. Would my mother feel comfortable with me doing this? And, you know, sometimes I'd also have to let go of some of that, but, but other times that, that has been okay to, to maintain sort of her integrity and, and think that I, hopefully that's been passed on to me. Yeah, a certain barometer that stays with you. You end up doing the whole backstage, all the interviews, reading for casting agents,

and over a window of time navigating your way into finding an agent and then starting out in theater, I guess, mostly. I did for a long time, just theater. And then the first jump to TV was soaps. Yeah. Well, that was crazy. Which is, it seems like in New York, especially, it's sort of like a rite of passage for so many people. Yeah, that or doing the Law and Orders.

Right, right, right. One or the other is your first kind of like, right. Yeah, that was odd. I think I was doing a lot of, as you just said, I was doing, you know, readings all over the place. Any place, never, who cares? Nobody needs to pay me. I'll be anywhere just to be like, even read stage directions. And at times I was, for auditions, I was just saying, I'll be the reader for this. And somebody must have kindly told, some casting director's assistant

must have told the casting director that told the agent that worked in the same office. And then somebody hip-pocketed me. And then I sort of climbed through the ranks. Took a number of years. And it was that first agent, I think, that sent me out for Another World. And I did, I didn't know, I had never watched a soap opera ever. And I remember showing up and we didn't have a TV in New York. I didn't ever watch TV. So I did, and we didn't have a computer stuff that I could kind of go and like YouTube it. So I showed up on a soap opera set with, that was as far removed from anything I understood as I don't even know, like basket weaving or something would have been for me. But I, you know, well, yes, you do put on a costume there and you do memorize lines and you do speak to someone

and create as much like a live connection as you possibly can. But I didn't do it very long. And I guess the one thing that was quite good about it was, as you, I'm sure everyone has heard this really about soap operas, they move quickly. And so you get those scenes and you have to do a lot of pages.

And so it did teach me to actually not be as delicate and as, you know, like sort of, I wouldn't say thoughtful, but just to actually jump in a lot deeper and a lot quicker than I had been used to in my life. I was a very careful person in my performing. And I think that that allowed me to see that sometimes throwing caution to the wind was going to be helpful in my work. Yeah. I mean, is it almost that because you're literally, you're filming and airing every day, five days a week. It's almost like if you throw caution to the wind one day and you're not in love with how it landed, you have another day and another day. It's not like there's one film and it goes out into the world. It's just like so many opportunities to keep doing different things.

Yeah, I think about that word, like being precious with work. And I think if one looks back at, you know, your younger years often as an actor, you would see, not that I have looked back at my theater work, because it might be at Lincoln Center Theater, you know, in some library, but I have not seen it. But I would say if I were to be able to be able to do such a thing, I would say that most of my work probably early on was very precious. And I think that the older you get, that you do realize that you must not hold on that way, that being too careful and too much of self-scrutiny and that kind of judgment of self is never going to be helpful. You really have to have a freedom there to play. And the greatest people that I was starting to work with were the ones that had looseness. That's what I think about, just loose and just open. Lois Smith, I worked with a couple of years into my first forays into regional theater. And she's exquisite. She's an exquisite performer. And

every single moment, people say this about Pacino working with him on stage, every single moment is different from the one that was there the night before. And essentially looking in her eyes, I just knew we would fly. And I think I was so not used to actually giving up what I had controlled and decided before. And she really taught me, well, that's not going to work right here. If we hold on to something on the ground here, we're not going to give within the process of acting, but isn't that life too, right? That's parenting, isn't it? That's choosing to embark on life, as you said, in the deepest ways. You know, I have had some moments in my later years, I now experience chronic pain. And I think a lot about what it means. And I've done a lot of meditation now. And certainly I've looked into mindfulness and other thoughts of what does it mean to actually let go, right?

What does that really mean to let the body sort of breathe in, breathe out, and release? And I think for so many years, starting as a ballet dancer at age five, I held onto that ballet bar like it was a life force and I kicked my leg up and I just wanted to have that point as strong as it could be and do as many pirouettes as possible and be the perfectionist and make sure that I got the A that would help get me into the college that if I were going to go that route was going to make the parent happy. We know we've heard all this before, but it really was incredibly important to start saying, okay, be fallible, be vulnerable, make the mistakes, and the mistakes will be part of the celebration of your life and of others' lives too. Yeah. I think when we're around people

who have some way forgiven their own humanity and they just show up and they're like, like me, hate me, I am who I am. And I'm just, I'm completely at home with that. Yeah. To be that person, I think is miraculous. around somebody who, who has reached that place long enough where you start to wonder if you could be that way too, I think is such an important thing. I agree very, very much. And, and luckily I, you know, I found that I think I had so much of a focus on what it was going to mean to be an actor that at times I wasn't allowing other parts of my life to, you know, kind of to bloom. And one of the great things, of course, about having a child is

they don't care about what you do for a living, do they? They don't, nor how much money someone makes. It's really so much more basic and more beautiful. And the idea of us holding hands and me getting him an ice cream or running along the beach with him, that was the beginning of me sort of not needing to focus so much on acting. And then what was lucky was sometimes the acting just sort of became something much deeper and richer as a result of what I was experiencing, of course. Not needing it the same way I did.

Right. It's like you're asking less of it. Yeah. And that allows you to... Offer more? Yeah, I think so. Or just to show up with less of a feeling like I have to be a certain way. Yeah. Because you're getting what you need from different parts of your life.

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Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. From there, you end up on a very long running show. Yeah, that long running show. You're navigating in and out starting around 2003 to F-Men.

My son was nine days old when I went to work on Two and a Half Men, right? No kidding. Actually, I did the pilot episode while I was pregnant. So sometimes if I've ever shown him, he has not really seen any Two and a Half Men, nor does he, you know, he wasn't that interested in seeing a multi-cam sitcom. That's not his, he's a Dungeons and Dragons kind of guy. So, but anyway, he, I point to that pilot episode sometimes and say, you were inside me there. But anyway, I did. I started working when he was nine days, took him to set for the first two years. And I was there every day learning, you know, how to, I was not considered, I didn't think, a funny person.

I really actually still don't think about all funny when I sit with the rest of my cast for Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. I have people like Alex Borstein and, you know, Tony Shalhoub and, you know, Rachel Bosnan. They're so funny. And, oh, Kevin Pollack, Erlene, et cetera. And I honestly, if you give me text, I can, that's comedic and magnificent, like I'm getting right now, or that I got on Two Enough Men, I can be funny because that's written for me, but that's not my stuff inside. That's not naturally my place. But on Two Enough Men, I got to watch people

that were on top of their field. Like, I look at John Cryer. That is, you know, a Jerry Lewis type. That is a person that has a physical comedian. He can do it all. And I loved being there watching that. I mean, it was, you know, it was do it all. And I loved being there watching that. I mean, it was, you know, it was a complicated time. I'm not sure that the show, you know, was easy for me as a person who had just given birth. There were a lot of parts of it that were, you know, someday when

I'm older, perhaps I can understand it better that, but I have have to say i learned a lot about about how to be a better comedian on that show but it was long it was a long time and there was a you know there was some eruption on that show too as we all know and there was um people's egos and the fragility of that and um that was interesting to to watch and to and to and to and to see the vulnerability of both kind of those extraordinarily talented men that were obviously having some conflict. That was interesting. That was like watching conflict get aired publicly when all you kind of wanted for both of their sakes was that it would be a private thing that was, you know, worked through. Yeah. And it had to have been odd for, not that we need to really go down that rabbit hole, but, you know, just for you to have sort of like moved through that experience while at the same time you're like, this is my craft.

This is my art. This is my form of service. And I have this other life outside. And, and, um, you know, what was great about it is that because you're doing multicam sitcom, which is when they have the different cameras, you have a studio audience. It did keep me in a world that was theatrical. And so it really did allow for audience participation because you're working in a rehearsal, like a little mini tiny play. And then one night a week you're performing it for people. And so it kept that kind of muscle exercised. And so I would take some of the money that would go towards the, we had $200,000 worth of loans. My husband had gone to law school. I had gone to graduate school, as you know, undergraduate school. So that money that I was making there was going to say thank you to the education. And then also people used to say, how are you affording to do a play, which I did every year

at that time. And I said, you know, the money that I'm making on TV is my support for my play. So I did keep at the theatrical world and balanced it. So I was doing that sitcom as well as getting to do a play and then as well as being a mom. So I was sort that sitcom as well as getting to do a play and then as well as being a mom. So I was sort of doing what I said earlier that my mom was able to do, which was kind of incredible. I was trying to do a lot, but part of the sitcom is allowing you to get out early every day. And the kind of hours I have now on television, I would never have been able to see my son much. Yeah. I mean, it's figuring out what matters to me during this season. You got it.

And then how do I piece together these things so it works? And sometimes that means doing something in no small part because it's making us okay financially and taking care of things. And sometimes you do it because your heart just swells so much you can't not do it. That's right. And, like, you know, I think the art in there is trying to find the blend where it all kind of feels good. That's right. Yeah. That's right. Let's move forward a little bit and dive into Maisel.

Yes. I love to talk about Maisel. We're hanging out here in New York City. Yeah. We are actually on a block where the show has actually been filmed. I remember walking out my front door and seeing all the trailers and all these stunning cars from the 50s parked on the street. And I was like, what's going on here? And seeing the incredible costumes. How does The Marvelous Maisel show up for you? How do you end up?

Yeah. So I haven't really talked about this very much, but I just alluded to it and I'm feeling in the space very safely with you to share this. So in 2014, which was a year or so after Two and a Half Men actually had finished, I started to feel a kind of pain on the left side of my body in the pelvis and I ignored it and I pushed through I had been a person that after I would had let go of dance I was a person that loved to exercise in other other ways not dancing but uh you know I was I ran I did stationary bike I did all sorts of stuff and I just kept thinking I was having kidney stones, which I'd had before. And I thought, okay, well, one way you deal with pain is you just plug through. And I'd been taught that a little bit.

My grandmother, my mother's mother, was sort of fierce that way. She always said, if you seem sick in the morning, rather than come downstairs in your pajamas, come downstairs in your clothes and you're going to be fine. You'll begin your day. So that's what I thought. Very New England. That's very New England. Exactly. So basically I, you know, sort of grinned and bore it. And I did a pilot and was in so much pain in it that I actually ended up taking a little bit of Percocet to get through because that's what the pain doctors were giving me. And my mom got so afraid about all that, but I literally remember being like almost slightly high doing it.

And I'd never done any drugs. I was like a little clean kid this way. And when it finished, my mom sort of so afraid for me said, okay, now you're going to rest this, you know, you're going to get better. And the body didn't get better. It got worse and worse and worse. I became incontinent. I couldn't move. I couldn't sit. I couldn't be, I couldn't do anything. And it ended up that I had developed some kind of nerve disorder that was a kind of pelvic neuropathy that was like sharp shooting shocks that kind of go up and down the limb and around and into areas that are all part of the fabric of sort of our core. And that got worse and worse for about two years.

And I wasn't able to work. I wasn't able to go support my son the way I needed. I wasn't able to even connect with friends. It's funny. I was always a person that read the newspaper. And for those two years, I don't know what happened much. It was like a blackout chapter. And I went to Mayo Clinic. I went to Cleveland Clinic and I did a chronic pain program. I was in group therapy. Anyway, I could go on and on about this. But basically, when I got back at one point from Cleveland Clinic, I realized that I was living with a kind of chronic pain now. And I was called by my agents who had been so respectful and not saying, we're going to drop you in the midst of all this. And she called my agent, Allison Levy, whom I love. And she knew about everything.

And she said, are you ready to maybe try auditioning I said you know what one of the things I learned in chronic pain was actually I need to distract myself from this so she she sent me out and the first audition I had was for something called Speechless which I ended up booking and the second audition I had which was was for Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and um I flew back and forth for the tests for the show for Maisel. And each time I kept thinking, oh, just do it, just get on the plane, just do it and get back. And you're not going to get the job anyway. And so it was like one foot in front of the other. And then I called, I got called back and then I got called back a third time. And, and then I

booked the job and I didn't even know if I was really going to be able to do it. I didn't tell anybody. I just, I just said, you know, just show up and see what happens and something will happen that hopefully will, will present itself as the right path. So, um, I, that was, I just, that was a long answer to something that was almost like, I don't know what we call that exactly, but it was an extraordinary gift that I was given that has helped with my pain. I still live with chronic pain, but I am blessed that on the set when I'm engaged with others, the pain or right now engaged with you, I don't feel the pain the same way. The second we'll finish this interview, I will feel the sharpness of the pain again. But anyway, that's how it came about.

And I am an incredibly lucky woman to be working with these people and to have the gift of this role. Yeah, it's the relationship between where your mind is and what you experience is a fascination of mine. I've talked about this on the podcast here and there. I have tinnitus, so there's a loud sound in my head 24-7. I know the date in 2010 that it touched down. And I was introduced to, I was working on a book at that point on how people navigate high stakes sustained uncertainty and how it destroys some people. But other people somehow are able to harness it to do great work.

And I was always on the side of getting destroyed. But I was always called to make things. And I always had trouble sort of like working with those two into the spectrum. And along the way, I get this thing in my head, which everyone just says, maybe it goes away, maybe it doesn't deal with it. You go on the internet and everyone's like, well, you don't want to go on the internet.

That's right. And I turned to, I started to explore probably similar things to you. I looked at chronic pain and mindfulness and CBT and exercises that would teach you how to slowly over time engage and change your circumstances, change your environment, engage in activities, interactions. But also begin to have power over your attention, your awareness in any given moment in time. And what I realized was that when I was deeply focused on something, it wasn't there. Like you said, the minute I stopped, if I looked for it, it was immediately there. And the fascination of mine is, where's the sound? Where's the pain? Yeah. Is it, is it the source of injury or damage or is it, or is it the brain? That's exactly what I, I, I, it's like groundhog day. I, I ask myself that almost every day. You'd think I'd get sick of asking myself that, which I am, by the way, sick of asking myself, but you'd think I'd gain more knowledge of the understanding of the answer to it. But it's still, it's like a

baby bird getting born or something. I still ask that question. Thank you for asking, because then I know it's shared and must be shared by so many of your listeners, right? I would imagine. Yeah. I mean, I think also- Not that I wish upon this. No, but also like, you know, whether it's an injury or physical pain or whether it's something psychological, nobody gets out without experiencing something that, you know, and I'm just, I'm fascinated and optimistic, maybe hopeful that the more we know about how we can harness our awareness, that even if circumstances don't change, even if the stimulus that's creating, you know, the response that leads to potentially suffering remains for life, that we can somehow find ways, maybe not to make it go entirely away, but for windows of time to find some sense of equanimity. Yeah. I hope, I hope. Look, I'm feeling lucky to be here in this space with you because this time has allowed me some distance from what I feel pretty much all the time, but not all the time. I shouldn't say all the time, but it is interesting how much it changes you, as you know. And it's interesting what you said about like that moment, the click. I know exactly when it happened. I know when I felt the pain for the first time. I know it didn't

stop. The sound of it then just got louder and louder and louder. I remember sitting in the group therapies with people, many who had an addiction to opioid use at that point. I did not have that, but I remember being a person I didn't recognize because I sat in talking to doctors at Cleveland Clinic going, just give it to me, just give me the opioid because this that I'm feeling, I need some space from it. And I can't find anything except when I take something that does put me to sleep. But anyway, so I totally understand what you just said. But I have to say how incredible that my ability to work or the gift that Amy and Dan gave me by accepting that I could play this role was the first time that I went. Beside, by the way, many moments with family and friends that do kind of get me a little way. But a workplace.

I didn't think I was going to work again ever. I guess I was 50. I thought that was done. But I've been very, very lucky that I've been able to show myself that I can actually work and have pain. So anyway, yeah, so this show, this is a New York show. And I had spent all those years in New York and then moved to LA to work in television there. And I was brought there because I was working on that show, this extraordinary show that Marshall Harskowitz and Ed Zwick did called Once and Again. And then at that point, my husband and I had laid down roots and then we had a child. So I wanted to get back to New York as much as I could. And I thought it was really funny that the show I get cast in this great period piece is set in New York and it's

going to be shot in New York and it's going to be shot in the part of New York that I had left, the extraordinary Upper West Side. And it's a very familiar tale to me. As I said earlier, I'm not Jewish, but have always been very interested in Judaism. My husband's Jewish, my in-laws, many of my friends. And these people felt very, the Weissmans, Rose Weissman felt very familiar to me. She's not just parts of my mother-in-law, parts of my mother,

but she's Zelda Fitz Chandler who ran the NYU grad program when I was there or my ballet teachers when I was younger or who knows, Lois Smith a little bit or the elegance of Laura Linney, right? Or, you know, all these women who I think are so exquisitely inspiring to me. I don't find myself similar to Rose. I'm not recognized at all. I don't look like her. I'm kind of a, I'm a very sloppy dresser. I'm a disheveled person. I'm disorganized. I tend to

be very fearful and quite neurotic. I don't think Rose, she has little droplets of those things, but mostly she's got more strength than I have, I think. She's got a different kind of backbone and I've loved escaping into her. And then I've also loved what Rachel Brosnahan, playing the lead of Miriam, is offering right now to our whole culture that has opened up to watch her, this is an extraordinary performance. This is one of those ones, you know, like Marlo Thomas did or, you know, who else? Carol Burnett did that. Lucille Ball did. You know, these are amazing.

Meryl Streep, you know can name. Rachel is kind of unbelievable to me. She's funny and incredibly intelligent and deeply strong and just giving something that is awe-inspiring. Yeah. I mean, the show is amazing. We've been fans from the first day. It's the first season, the second season. As we sit here, season three is about to drop. And it's interesting because the last season was, it felt like it was largely about your character. Oh, well, thank you. I mean, not entirely. No, they had the Paris stuff. Everybody had their narrative on. But yeah, but there was this, you know, Rose, who you play in this show, even though the show takes place, you know, in the late 50s, and I guess we're about to go into the 60s in season three, she is a woman in that show who I think is probably about the age you are in real life now.

So it's interesting to sort of like, and that was part of my curiosity and you kind of partially answered it, which is, you know, like she was in last season. There's, there's this whole arc where she basically says, I'm, I'm, I'm cooked. I'm done. Like, this isn't okay. The way that I'm living my life and what I've given up kind of vanishes herself to Paris. And you're sort of in this window of your own life where you're sort of, it's like a moment of reckoning, of rediscovery, of who am I and what am I actually capable of? And how much do I want to push finding the answer to? Yeah, there were, some of that stuff I think gets lost on me because, you know, when you

enter a role role you don't recognize the similarities to one's own life and some of the stuff was not lost on me at all like when I traveled last year to Paris when they sent Rose off and I got to arrive in a city that I had spent a tiny bit of time when I was younger but not much much. And I didn't speak French. But I landed and spent a lot of time, like maybe a week and a half alone, wandering the streets there and really reflecting on the place I had been when I had come there as a child. And then I had dropped in for like 24 hours once before I got married. And I kept thinking a lot about who I was then versus who I was now and then what I want to dream of being.

And then all of a sudden we'd be shooting scenes and the lines that would come out would sort of be the mirror of what I exactly had said the night before, you know, as Maren and now suddenly as Rose. And that was, you know, quite exciting to have those two worlds kind of get married for a moment. It's interesting also, I'm somebody who's sort of, for some reason I focus on physicality a lot also when I interact with people, when I watch things. And there seemed to have been in those, when you were shot there, and I don't know if you felt it, there seemed to have been like a shift in your physicality. oh thank you for noticing that that's so interesting so Donna Zakowska is

this um genius costume designer we have and she comes up with I mean I could spend have spent the whole hour talking about her and I could spend you know like 10 hundred hours but uh she this is very indulgent they did this but I'm going to throw it out there they threw they flew me to Paris and had me do a set of costume fittings there prior to actually shooting and the reason was because she felt like the sort of the new side of Rose that we would see would be so she it to be somewhat unfamiliar to the audience. And she wanted the clothing to represent the changes, of course, that Rose was going through. And so I remember trying things on and asking her if we could have jackets that didn't cover her as much. And we thought about it for a while. And then I explained, I think I need Rose to

express her body in a way that the audience can see. And she was so receptive to that, which, you know, not all designers would have been. They would have said, oh, no, I had an image. I had drawn it up and we're going to do it exactly as rendered. And she really listened to that. I remember in particular, there was a scene where I showed Tony's character, Abe, the apartment that I was dreaming we would move into. It's right before he says, no, we've got to go home, Rosie. And they had a particular coat for me that would cover up the body more. And I said, is there anything that we could throw on that let my arms kind of?

And she said, let me get it for you. And that is just an example. And all sorts of the clothing really did represent that in a new way. But thank you. And that like, that is just an example, you know, and there were, and all sorts of the clothing really did represent that in a new way. But thank you for noticing that. I do, I do think Rose probably took dance when she was young. That's my choice I made, or that Rose also had some parts of her that maybe thought about performing even. She certainly went to art school. She certainly, it wasn't studied art. And so I think in language, and you'll learn something in the next season, in two days or three days when the show drops,

and when people hear this, it will have dropped. But there's a part of her past that is so not what I thought was going to be Rose, but the way that I've justified it for myself is, wow, she had to go from that to what we know of when we first met her two years ago. So if someone can have that kind of transference, then she has a fierce ability for rediscovery. I love that. There's a line that Rose drops, which Maren also obviously drops, in I said it in Paris that of the entire season was the one line that stayed with me

and what's really interesting is given what you've just shared about what you've been through over the last few years I wonder if it actually has more meaning than just Rose uttering it which is here I'm shatterproof so funny that you say that because when I got to that line, which was in that apartment I was just telling you about where I asked if I could have

clothing that allowed her body to be more expressive. Whenever I got to that line, I got quite choked up. And Amy really wanted, again, I use the word backbone. She wanted the backbone to have a little bit more fierceness. And so when I saw it in its final version, because you do what, four or five, 10, 15 takes. And I kind of knew that I would probably not see the vulnerability that I had offered to that because it was hitting so much in a way, but she saw it in something that was a bit different. And that's something I empower her to do. That's the way it has to be. She's the visionary. But anyway, thank you for that, because I do think that was a very resonant line for something that was going on in my own life at

the same time. Yeah. This feels like a good place for us to start to come full circle as well. So as we sit here in this container of the Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase, to live a good life, what comes up? I think openness and generosity towards others is the good life. We didn't talk about how I, you know, I said Paul Walker and Ron Van Loo taught me so much, or Laura Linney taught me so much. And part of the reason they did is their hearts were so open and they were such teachers and they were so selfless in so many ways and with their time and their care.

And so I guess to live a good life, I find, because I've loved so much in my delight of being a parent, is to hope that I'm here in service of others and having a sense of grace to be able to be there with others and connecting to them. Thank you. Sure. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible.

You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at sparkotype.com. That's S-P-A-R-K-E-T-Y-P-E.com. Or just click the link in the show notes. And of course, if you haven't already done so, be sure to click on the subscribe button in your listening app so you never the show notes. And of course, if you haven't already done so, be sure to click on the subscribe button in your listening app so you never miss an episode. And then share, share the love.

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