Good Life Project - Matthew McConaughey | Just Keep Livin'

Episode Date: November 25, 2020

Five days into filming his first movie - Dazed & Confused - some 28 years ago, Matthew McConaughey’s dad, a towering force in his life, suddenly died. Matthew had to figure out a way to keep showing up, to keep going. His mantra became “just keep livin,” which has become a guiding ethos, a sort of lens through which he lives his life.Now, nearly three decades later, an Academy Award-winning actor, icon in the industry, married father of three, a master raconteur, entrepreneur, philanthropist, and endless creator of moments and adventures, Matthew lives life as an eternal amateur. Fiercely himself in all parts of life, ever-curious and open, he seeks experiences, wisdom, and insights, always learning, always asking, always seeking, that give him some semblance of understanding what makes life worth living. Much of his journey, his take on life, fatherhood, acting, love, family and contribution is offered up in his beautiful and moving new memoir, Greenlights (https://greenlights.com/). It’s a philosophical and poetic window into the experiences and moments that shaped him and continue to awaken him to what matters most, drawn from 50 years of living, and some 36 years of diaries.That quest - to figure what a life well-lived looks like - is one we both have in common, and it’s probably why in today’s conversation we jump into the deep end of the pool fast, exploring everything from nature and solitude to family, love, struggle, character, uncertainty, creation, the sacred nature of being in the spaces in between devastation and wild success, how the moment we’re all in has shifted his thinking and what the future we all being called to co-create might look like, and so much more.That’s what you’ll hear. But here’s what was happening that you couldn’t see. As we spoke, Matthew sat at his desk, reading glasses on, and pen and paper in hand. Minutes into the conversation, he began writing, taking notes, regularly jotting down ideas, phrases, and insights, piecing together puzzles in real-time. Ever the seeker, a perpetual student of life, present in the moment, and open to whatever it might bring.You can find Matthew McConaughey at: Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/officiallymcconaughey/)-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://www.goodlifeproject.com/sparketypes/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So five days into filming his first movie, Dazed and Confused, some 28 years ago, Matthew McConaughey's dad, the towering voice in his life, suddenly died. And Matthew had to figure out a way to just keep showing up, to keep going. And his mantra became, just keep living, which has become a bit of a guiding ethos, a sort of a lens through which he sees and lives his life. Now, nearly three decades later, an Academy Award-winning author, an icon in the industry, married father of three, a master raconteur, entrepreneur, philanthropist, and kind of endless creator of moments and adventures, Matthew lives life as an eternal seeker and amateur, fiercely himself in all parts of life,

ever curious and open. He seeks experiences and wisdom and insights, always learning, always asking, really trying to figure out some semblance of what makes life worth living, what makes it good. Much of his journey, his take on life, fatherhood, acting, love, family, contribution is offered up in a really beautiful and moving new memoir, Greenlights. It's a philosophical and poetic window into the experiences and moments that shaped him and continue to awaken him to what matters most, drawn from 50 years of living and some 36 years of diaries. That quest to figure out what a life well-lived looks like is one that we both have in common. And it's probably why in today's conversation, we jump into the deep end of the pool really fast, exploring everything from nature and solitude to family, love, struggle, character, uncertainty, creation, the sacred nature of being in those

spaces between devastation and wild success, and how the moment that we're all in has shifted his thinking, and maybe what the future we're all being called to co-create might look like, and so much more. That's what you'll hear in today's conversation. But here's what was happening that you couldn't see. As we spoke, Matthew sat at his desk, reading glasses on and pen and paper in hand, and minutes into the conversation, he began writing, taking notes, regularly jotting down ideas and phrases and insights, piecing together puzzles in real time. Ever the seeker, a perpetual student of life, present in the moment and open to whatever it might bring. Simply observing this was a really powerful signal to me of the way that he approaches every interaction with every being

that he meets along the way. I'm so excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday, we've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing.

Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is you're gonna die don't shoot if we need them y'all need a pilot flight risk i'm hanging out i'm a lifelong new yorker um hanging out in christie butte colorado right now and uh on monday night there was barely any moon in the sky, 9,000 feet. So there's no clouds. And there was a meteor shower. And it was on the news.

So I went outside. So midnight, I'm standing out in the middle of nowhere. It's like ink black skies. The stars are just dripping into the ground. And they're shooting stars kind of like going across. And I've got you in my right ear, half reaching, half telling stories. And I'm just thinking to myself, this is an interesting moment. My go-to place has always been nature. It's where I touch stone. And it seems like,

you know, for you, there's something kind of magical about the combination of nature and solitude also. Yeah. I like that term you just use. I haven't heard that. It's where I touch stone. You said, I like that. I'll steal that, but I'll footnote you. Yeah. No worries. Yeah. I mean, for me, I'm just on a, I always kind of measure it. You know, say I'm in L.A. or I'm in New York and I'm working and I'm hammering things and I'm peddling. And the day to day, I've got a lot of responsibilities. I'm good at doing that.

But all of a sudden what I find is I'll go, I'll get ahead of time. Meaning I'll go like, you know's six o'clock yet. It's 422. Ah, geez. Well, slow down, slow down, slow down, slow down. If I go click off, if I can check out to have my time in nature or be outside and get back with the rhythm that's outside of my vertically stacked responsibilities, I can come back and go, is it, what is it? outside of my vertically stacked responsibilities. I can come back and go, what is it?

I bet you it's about 3.15. And I look at the clock because I don't wear a watch. I look at the phone and it's 3.17. I'm like, there we go. Okay, I like it. A minute or two behind actually is my favorite favorite spot to be just to hair like that, but like that, like a great drummer, like the, like the drummer was on that, that, that, what was it?

He's really good. He's a Leon drummer. He's just on the backside of, of, of, of the tune. Not, not on the front side of the wave, just on the backside of the wave. And then I find that things, all that vertically stacked responsibilities that I'm feeling like I'll accomplish this, accomplish this, knock this down. And I, you know, start to run on reserve that it lays down and becomes lateral in front of me. And I can land, I can see it.

And then all of a sudden instead of the proverbial weight on the shoulders of that large stack, there's no weight on the shoulders. Cause now it's out in front of me and I can see one at a time and kind of hop from lily pad to lily pad, get just as much done or more with a lot less stress after. And that's what nature gives me that clock, I think for me. Yeah, no, I love that, man. That really resonates also. I've been thinking interestingly, because, you know, we're in this moment in time where the rate of not just speed, but acceleration of everything is just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. It feels like the way that most people are trying to quote, keep up with that, keep their head above water, hold on for dear life is to accommodate it by

trying to develop the skill of moving faster. And it's interesting because for me, what I've been really thinking about lately, and it's similar to what you just described is, well, maybe the better way to handle this is actually like to cultivate the practices that allow you to slow down time and discern what really matters rather than trying to like take it all in and keep up with everything. Yeah. Well, I mean, our bandwidth, we definitely some universally agreed on governor or sifter or drain to sift out a lot of the needless frequencies or the non-constructive frequencies to make room for a clear channel for the stuff that matters. That's for dog on shore. And maybe that, you know, by process of elimination, by process would make room for the things that, that, that really do matter that are successful that you can, you know, have, make a living with as well, but also feed us,

maybe it makes room for those bandwidths to be deeper and wider and have more of an autobahn in their transference to and from us. And when they get to us, even more of an autobahn from our nugget to our heart. That's another autobahn frequency.

I mean, there's just so much is sifting through, I think. What matters, what doesn't and what's that governor for society and forces individuals? Oh, this actually matters. And I sometimes think that society has gotten to a point now where they actually see most of news frequencies that they all that's sort of like. I'm taking it too seriously maybe like i'm coming forward like oh man you don't need to believe that and then they're kind of feel like society's behind their eye kind of almost winking going dude we know it's all soft porn we kind of get it we know it's all tmc i mean this whole even you know i even gleaned and think about that

with politics and stuff and go is everyone kind of gonna get the G? Is that a good thing? Things that we had reverence for, courtrooms that we were never allowed in, political leadership positions that were over there in that place on top of that hill that now we feel like, we've been in there. What do you mean?

The Supreme Court. I watched Judge Judy. What are you talking about? Yeah, I get it. So have we sort of looking at it all like it's all a Walmart shop? Yeah. Yeah. It's like somewhere between Judge Judy and the Supreme Court, there is truth. Right? Yeah. And on any given day, it's one or the other. It's not like it's always one. I got to tell you, Judge Judy has handed down some serious truths in her day.

I've heard that. I've heard some people that follow her that say that. I bet she has. Yeah. It's interesting. You use that line, Audubon, from your head to your heart, trying to figure out how to open the channel, how to stop, how to find what's blocking it. I get the sense that a lot of people don't even know that that channel exists.

Like I feel like there's so much living from the neck up that happens. And circling back to what we're talking about, like the faster we go, I feel like the more we default to the head. And we don't even realize that the heart is there and matters, let alone understand that there is a channel that exists that is even worthy of focusing on opening. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Metaphorically, let's call for me anyway. It's fair. I'll call that my head, the eye and the heart, the we. Achievement, compassion, thought, belief. So, I mean, that seems to be the place, as I call it, the honey hole, the sugar shack, the sweet spot of evolution for ourselves and for all of us, I think, where those decisions that we make, the choices we make, the activities we make each day that actually I think are the most selfish and the most selfless at the same time.

My college term, which is in the book, is the egotistical utilitarian. And I'm kind of happy I'm sitting here 20, 30 years later going, I still like that. I still like people go, what the hell is that? And I go, I love explaining what that is. It's very literal. But I remember coming up with that that 21 years old going i like that um that seems to be the greatest challenge of where are those choices because the the coolest dudes and dudettes in the past that i know and i'm not a big historian it seems to be what they were tapping into is again breaking down those contradictions and and and revealing that that that that overlap of that paradox and it not being a or not being a compromise not being a loss of self when you were selfless it actually was a gain of self that reciprocity between the two that

seemed to be seems to be the place yeah well i mean, especially if you view, as so many of the great philosophers have viewed, that there is no true delineation between the capitalist self, us, and everybody else out there. If you look at it that way, and if you come to it from a theory of oneness, not everybody does, then it makes you really reflect on both what are you doing to cause harm and what are you doing to cause good? Because even if you're selfish, if you see yourself as being one with other people, if you cause harm to other people, then you are by definition causing harm to yourself. Yeah. So it's like an interesting frame to kind of bring to that.

Well, and even on a non-mystical level, I would say on a practical level. If I want to lie, cheat, and steal from you right now, hey, I'm going to be talking to Jonathan right now. I'll have him for an hour. So guys, that's the time to go rob his house. I got him on camera. Okay, I'll make sure he doesn't leave. Whatever, blah, blah, blah. Yes, selfish for me is the thief and the robber, right? I got what I wanted.

I need a new stereo. John's got great stereo. I heard about it. I had to get that stereo. But now I got what I wanted. But now from now on, when I walk out the door or I got to look over my shoulder. I've now left crumbs. I have to go next time I'm going. Geez, I'm supposed to go to Cresci Butte next week. Jonathan's there. Oh, shit. No, I'm not going to go there.

I'm going to go to New York. Oh, that's actually where he is. I'm staying in this hotel. He's in this neighborhood. He's going to be looking. I'm looking over my shoulder. So now I'm buying my time. I purchasing time in my my time in my future and you know if the future is a compounding asset i've got some i've got reasons to stress in my future i've created yellow lights in my future

because i'm looking around going i hope jonathan didn't hear or that person that i lied cheated and stole from that's at this gala or ball or dinner or in the restaurant and i gotta go and people go are you okay and you're going yeah i'll be right back i'm i've just i've stole so what was the more selfish act i would say the more selfish act was to act in a way where i don't have to look over my shoulder to see if jonathan's there because he he wants to get his stolen stuff back. You know what I mean? What creates more freedom? And what's kinder to my future self?

And I think that I use it with our kids a lot, but it has a lot to do with delayed gratification. It has to do with teeing ourself up for going. And I'm not a, what do you call it, a hoarder. You know, I don't like to hoard. I don't want to die with the most toys and go, see, that was delayed gratification. Look at what I left.

I like to live. I like to eat the cake when it's in front of me. There's a way, there's a choice there where there's a amount. I'm not going to go into the word moderation because it sounds regressive to me. But there's a way, there's a choice there where there's a amount. I'm not going to go into the word moderation because it sounds regressive to me. But there's a way, there's a choice there where it's like, oh, for the I and for the we, for the now and for tomorrow. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting, right?

Because it's kind of like saying, you know, the most ready path to personal freedom is generosity and compassion. Which is a little counterintuitive. But then when you think about it, the way you just laid it out, actually, like you play it out in terms of how it will affect you if you were the opposite and that becomes a cage not right freedom but right but so many of us don't actually look at it that way why do you think it's it's is it a uh is it a block to our to the the distance in our future that we're comfortable engaging with. I mean, you know. I get it. We're in a pandemic. I'm trying to look at this like we're in it for the next three years. Well, it's probably going to be shorter than that.

But because I'm thinking about it being three years down the road, I've tapped into my survival energy and slowed down my pace. And I know I'm in here for the long run. The Taurus is going to win this thing. And I'm going to get tapped on the shoulder and say, hey, you can go re-engage before three years. And I'm going to look up and go, oh, no, I can keep going. Now, I understand it's very hard for someone and everyone to think that far. It's whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's whoa whoa whoa no no no i can think to the end of the week man you know what i mean or i can think to tomorrow you know or or some people you know i went and i tried to and i can not always is go to the go to the eulogy

and think back but we have these little chapters along the way that I understand how it can be very hard for people to project into the future and still feel tactile, I guess, with it. Yeah, no, it's such a fascinating question. Something I've thought a lot about actually lately, and you know the old aphorism of a bird in the hand, right? Which is kind of the same thing, but my sense is it's actually about, and I'm curious what you think about this too, it's kind of a blend of two things. One is a fierce discomfort with uncertainty that makes us want scarcity and abundance equation. So it's like, if we're sitting here in a place of fierce uncertainty and we haven't cultivated the practices and the skills to allow us to breathe into it and know that this is an arrogant end, It may feel worse now, but it's the perpetual state of being. And then we assume that the immediate universe is scarce and not abundant, and we will never have the capacity to change that.

Well, then we're kind of screwed. And then we become entirely about self-oriented. And it's a life of grasping, which goes back to what you were saying before. That is not freedom. It may be saying before. That is not freedom. It may be accumulation, but it is not freedom. No. You said two things, uncertainty. And I guess our worst spot would be uncertainty and believing that what's out there is scarce,

that it's dry season. Now, that goes back to what we started off talking about, time. We race against time. I try to remind myself, no, no, no, time is on your side, man. Trust time. Dance with time. Beat it on that drumbeat, just on time, or for me, slightly behind time. When I'm doing that, I'm seeing time as an abundant gift. It's full. Wow. When I understand time, my timeline, going back and writing the book, looking at 50 years of my life, my feet are more firmly on the ground and I'm dancing better with time right now because I understand more clearly the song that I've been singing or has been sung to get and where I am in it now I have well I don't know where the next song where the song goes from here it's still like jazz still playing it but I

understand what what I understand what the album sounds like you know what I mean to this point so I'm able to be a little more maybe a little more present if that's the right word i think though is you know is seeing the world as abundant i mean is that is that really even if even if how is that valuable even if it's wrong yeah and and i think it's such a great question. And again, something I reflect on a lot. And to me, I think the value of that is that it gives us permission to act from a place of compassion and generosity. Because we don't work on the assumption that if I don't take what's there immediately, it will never be there again. So I have to amass, I have to grasp and hoard. And that, like you said, okay, so maybe you end up dying with the greatest amount of stuff, but who cares? It's not life well lived. Right. Yeah. But yet realizing that that is the life that we in society tell you, yes, that's what we give you the blue ribbon for us accumulate the most,

you know, have more fill that, you know, have more in that bandwidth we were talking about. We're not talking about the thickness or the depth of them. Yeah. We're not talking about how wide just because sheer numbers, quantity over quality, sheer numbers is what we, what we applaud. It's what we've been taught to say that's the winner that's the real yeah that's the rub i think right there's what do we value and what do we want to put value in do we need to rearrange that ladder of what we

give our gold medals for what we give our attaboys respect uh what we say yes that success in life the definition of that has changed over the years and we're sort of taught i would say i think it's fair to say especially in american in the west i think we're sort of taught that you know well the money and the fame that's it it. Bravo. You got the front row seat. Yep. You got to come on. Freebie to the front of the line. You got it. There's some, you know, there's there's some people that don't deserve to be at the front of the line with a whole lot of money and some fame. And I've been that person before that was like no no i'm right now i don't deserve to be at the front of any line and i like money and have money and like fame but

i'm not i'm not i'm not doing my best if that's if that's the top of my ladder of what i'm aiming to get and achieve yeah i mean if that's the metric then things get screwy it's interesting's interesting. As we sit here recording and having this conversation, I'm a snowboarder and I entire built snowboarding from nothing along with his wife, Donna and, and, um, and now three kids. And I was reflecting on it and, um, and I saw a tribute to him this morning and here's a, here's a guy who has lived, I mean, lived drenched every, just absolutely every part of life. Isn't everything he showed up to do. He has built an astonishing company, built it with his wife. And there's a handwritten note in the tribute where he's kind of writing that he's hanging at a ball face lodge, going out for a powder day with his wife and his three kids. And he's like, this is it.

This is it, man. man right there isn't yeah i am an icon in an industry i built this stunning company but damn just like hanging out with my wife right three kids on a powder day isn't the best thing in the world right right it's it's that uh what's that story you you know the young man see going around the world seeking out prophets and teachers the meaning of life what is it what is it what is it well and then you know you go to the the the father whose newborn's just been born what do you he asked him and he's like what do you talk about it's a silly question this is it that's it you know it's a good one and yeah it's uh you know i'm a i'm a big achiever i love to

achieve i do need sort of goals to meet to feel a certain sense of significance and then if i don't have those for a while i I'll feel less significant. And I have to go ask myself, I'm like, what's with that? Have a little more fortitude to understand, again, that you built something to get to this point to not have to be feel like you have to achieve or check this off your list every single day. And then again, I go, well, part of the reason maybe you've got the life you have is that you, you, you, you do like to achieve. And fortunately you put some things in front of you that you, you are healthy achievements maybe. Um, and to hark back to, I think you mentioned it. We were talking about it a little bit with the abundance a minute ago and this process that Burton's talking about in the process is what's making us doggone happy on

the powder doing what he's built this company to offer people to do more of that we uh you said we don't land there's not we don't get to the ta-da moment we don't get to the ah I reached the pinnacle I'm at at the peak. Now what do I do? If you have any sort of, I don't know if the right word is ambition, but if you're moving forward in the verb, I think that's another thing. We think of life as a verb and not a noun. We all want the result. Give me the result. And I know when I haven't chased,

and I go between this, I'll write headlines and write the story towards them. I'll also jump off the cliff and try to figure out how to fly on the way down. And I've succeeded and failed in both those, but I go back and forth between those two. But I can easily say I've gotten a lot more results for what I wanted when I just had my head down the process, when I was just having my head down doing, doing

the deal. And then someone else came up and goes, you did it. I'm like, did what? Oh, I was having too much fun surfing on the, you know, snowboarding on the mountain with my, uh, with my with my family. And with that, you were doing it. You were doing it. Oh, it was. Yeah. Whatever that mountain is for for for each of us. But if we can I think if we can feel like and understand that, again, that.

A little bit better, a little bit more towards what it is, who we are a little more true. If we don't like the word better, that's as good as it gets. That if we can go, that's what I take pleasure in. I don't need that uncertain. We're achieving on the way to the unachievable. Maybe that's a better way to put it. And at least I'd do that for myself to try and just go, okay, you're, you're not, you're actually not, you're not going to get to a final achievement, but keep achieving on the way to just admit that it's, it's an, you're on the way to the unachievable. And if I can clip onto that, then I'm going, ah, okay. And if that's as good as it gets, that's when I'm, I think, I know for me, happiest and truest. I think that that's applicable in many different ways for each of us. Yeah, no, so great. You know, I think sometimes I wonder whether the true value of a vision is just that it gives you direction, you know, that it allows you to invest effort in a particular linear way, whether you ever reach it or not. So you feel like you're moving towards something. And that feeling of having some sense of direction, that alone is powerful, is deeply rewarding. It gives us a sense of purpose.

I wake up in the morning, the Japanese call it ikigai. I have a reason to get out of bed. Maybe I hit it, maybe I don't. But the fact that I can wake up every day and say, I have a sense of direction. I know where to place my energy. It makes that day better. True value of visions and it gives us direction. Yes. Thank you. I'm right. I wrote that down. That seems to be, that's another way way I've always called it. Hey, you know, let me know. I want to know if I'm going to use a highway term. I want to know if I'm going north, south, east or west.

All right. But not much more. Other than that, give me 16 lanes and let me swerve. But it's not because it even get off the feeder, get off. It's fine because you're still headed the same direction. And as long as I look up in the compass is in that general direction, then great. But, and it's true, and it doesn't define it down to be in nothing. It still has a proverbial flag in the sand. It still has a sort of a finish line, but it's just kind of out there. And as long as we don't look up and go, oh my gosh, I'm actually going the wrong way on the 24 mile bridge. When did I turn around? Uh-oh. As long as it's just in the general direction, then we can, then there's the play. Then there's the, then there's the, that's it.

That's the ride. That's, that's the doing. That's when we're, that's when we're, we're hitting it. Yeah. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun on January 24th. We'll be right back. is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.

It's interesting because there's this, I think there's a tension between doing and accomplishing or being and accomplishing, right? And that the vision gives the being a sense of purpose, even if you don't accomplish that thing. I don't know if you, do you know a famous Tibetan Buddhist teacher, Chögyam Trungpa, who's no longer with us, and I'm going to butcher the teaching, but he effectively said, the bad news is you're falling. Nothing to hold on to, nothing to grasp onto. The good news is there is no ground. Ah, cool. to hold on to nothing to grasp onto the good news is there is no ground ah cool you know and if we

but it's if we can surrender to that that's great. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Between a laugh and a tear. Right. There it is. There it is. Yeah. Now, and how. How far forward, how far out there in the future do we need to project to realize that? I mean, you could say metaphorically, well, yeah, the falling means, yeah, we're on our way to death. It's all a fall. From the day we're born, how many minutes we're here? And there is no bottom here that I go, if you're in any kind of believer of impermanence, well, even this check out from this life, that wasn't, it doesn't mean you hit bottom. You're still in the ground and keep going, you know, and then, and then in my mind now sitting there going, yeah.

And how much is, you know, what, what chapter of my fall am I in right now in this life? Is this just an early, an early chapter in a long, long book? Or is it later in the chapters or the never ending book? But I mean, imagine, imagine if you can, if you can wrap your head around that way,

what it gives you the ability to do is effectively reframe the fall as the rise. Reframing the fall is the right, right, right, right, right, right,

right, right. And if, if, if you have trouble doing that, just instead of falling feet first, just turn yourself over into a dive. Yeah. So just you're looking at it upside down. I'm all for those kind of little tricks too. Engineering piece. But I mean, it's kind of interesting, right?

Because, you know, if you, one of the things I know that, you know, you write about in your book, you know, like there's a moment where your dad tells you, and actually it sounds like there's a bunch of moments where your dad basically says, you know, well, don't half-ass it. You know, it happens when you tell your dad, I don't want to be a lawyer. I want to go to film school. And he's like, well, don't half-ass it. And it's kind of saying that it's kind of like, if you're in, you're all in. And it seems like that is a broader philosophy that's really sort of become part of your life. Well, let's let's let's let's try to unpack this with me. Um, even if. Times where we don't believe that or feel that when we're wrangling with that. Is there what about the worth of just going, well, hang on a second. The alternative sucks. Again, just by, again, process of elimination. We don't know exactly who we are.

We don't have concept of that. And we're not in the right place. Well, let me just say, if we don't feel like the world is abundant, we don't feel like the future holds abundance. Well, what's the alternative? If I go, okay, it's all anarchy. It's all for naught. The world's scarce. I'm living in uncertainty. And I'm just going to say that's where I am. It's barren. It's all for naught. Oh, man. I don't even want to, I don't even know where to go with the next part of that story. I'm like, well, oh, then what? And I feel like it's a cop-out.

Yeah. I mean, your world becomes safe yet small. And it's not even safe because what it becomes is safe from the perceived intrusions of the outside world, but you're completely subject to your own internal grasping, spin, sorrow, grief, because that entire time you're grieving the lack of access to everything that you have inadvertently excluded, which is possibility, love, connection, generosity, adventure, all these things in the name of safety yeah and safety is it and to see that you know where you think safety might be the rise it's actually the inversion of the other it's actually the fall yeah yeah yeah um i like that i like i like. I really like that, that,

that poem or that analogy of the fall. If you can grasp that, then that is the right. Yeah. You know, it's a, it's a, it can be a lot to hold, hold onto. But again, I mean, at the very least I think we should go with the, just did, if you don't get it, it's just understand that the alternative has no ROI. The alternatives. I don't know. The alternative is no fun. We can go on and on about the alternative. It's just like, do we want to wallow in that? I talk about it in a try to talk about it in a practical way with the, in the green light analogy of, you know, sometimes we'll catch a green light in life because, you know, we're coming upon the yellow light.

The thing that, oh, this could be drama. This could be a crisis. But if we slow down for too long, we rubberneck, you know, and our lanes now going, you know, 25 and a 65 because we're looking at the drama, have seen the yellow impressed on the gas and blown is short-term, again, ROI, with that abundance, which is we see as abundance, that safety. How about the safety we all have going today and society has going today, the safety of going, well, if I can't raise me up and I can't do anything that I can feel good about myself for, I'm going to at least put you down. And by putting you down, I feel up. Well, that's short money. And we see that as abundance. But I would even argue that's not selfish at all or selfless. It's self-destructive. But again,

it's short-term things to get off to. And how we love sports analogy. We love to applaud you missing the shot. I feel better about you missing the shot i feel better some people i can feel better about you missing the shot than i can feel good about me making it now that's that math doesn't add up no that's not winning no that's just saying if you lose well then means i didn't lose. And it was somebody else who, who, who,

who failed. So I didn't, I didn't gain, I didn't win, but if I see someone else fail, Oh, okay. I feel better about myself,

but it's that short term. It doesn't last. It's like that guy at the, the guy at the party that holds you around and tells the great joke on somebody at the party that, you know, he, he wouldn't tell if the person was there and you laugh because

damn it was a good joke like this guy that was he was wrong time that was really time but then you walk away and you lost respect for him and you lost respect for yourself because you actually laughed you know short money he was the star of the moment but i i'll never trust that guy because he might be telling the same joke on me. And it's like, you also, I think you inadvertently take from yourself this opportunity to feel what it feels like when you do the right thing, when you rise to your own best. It's like that analogy of, you know, hoping somebody else misses the shot, you know, so that you win, you know, it's a hollow win.

Even if like the score says you won, because if you measure winning simply as like, what is the score at the end of the game, okay. But if you measure winning as, did I do what I showed up to do? Was I at my best, regardless of what the score was? Did I prepare as hard as I could and then show up and give everything that I could. And that person missing the shot or that person not being an equal partner actually doesn't allow you to do that. So it actually, like it harms you to a certain extent to wish that, that I want to show up and I want everybody else to show that they're absolutely best. And then, and then no matter what the score shows at the end of the day,

I want to be like, you absolutely brought it. I absolutely brought it. This was a good game. This was a good day. I always say in even developing characters and characters' obstacles and opposition and what is their resistance in scripts. And I use that quote know it's not really a risk unless you can lose the fight it's like ollie frazier man you know ollie format no both are in let's both be in our best shape let's both be peak performing and not have any buddy that cheats from the outside,

not have any rule changes, not have any goofy referee calls, pure competition, pure good confrontation. And then let's at the end, see where it ends up. We don't like that. We'd love to pick fights that were like, well, geez, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's Ali versus the runt. I mean, yeah, it's, it's, it's the eyes. It's not really. Yeah. But look, he's pounding him. Oh yeah. He could do that with his arm, his right arm behind his back. Yeah. But, but, but, but I'm one again, we're like, well, you're not really picking fights. Not that it really costs you. I had a great teacher, Penny Allen, who was always like, it's got to cost you.

What's it cost you? Every decision or choice or just got to make sure it costs you. And you're not going to get them all, but make sure what's the cost. If you get it. I know for me, if I, if I get something done, I, that's why I like to kind of, when I can work for myself is go, well, if I pull it off, I can look in the mirror and go, yep, you had a lot to do with that. And if I don't pull it off, I can look in the mirror and go, yep, you had a lot to do with that. But at least I know. At least I know. It's the ones where I'm not sure. And I go, well, I'm not sure how it all happened or how we got here or how we won or how we lost.

But I got a black hole. I got a blind spot about how that happened. It's not as much fun. I don't sleep as well that night when or loss because of the limbo and the, and the, and the, the, the, the blind spot of, well, I don't understand how it happened though. Even on the failure side, I'd rather have a lot of times a failure with understanding why rather than a victory with not knowing how or why yeah that makes sense not all the time i'll take some of those ones where i'm like hey look it's good to have resistance but not all day every day right give me some easy words here saturday saturday and flip-flops can be like, yes.

Yeah. But the whole idea of stakes, right, I think is so fascinating to me because you take the world that you inhabit for a lot of your work in life, which is it's a world of story. And we as the consumers of stories, we love, you know, the story exists between reality and expectation, right? We'd love to see the grappling. We love to see the protagonist and everybody in there having stakes. They've got to have skin in the game or we don't care. The best stories are always where the stakes are high and we don't know how it's going

to end. We love consuming books and movies and tvs that let us sort of like step into that world but when we're invited to be the protagonist in the story of our own lives yes and and we have to make the decision about like whether to you know like invest whether to have stakes we're terrified of that yes yes well and and and then we think we want if we want to be the kings of our own castle or the author of our own book or the hero in our own journey you just you said it if we think about what we love about art we love to see the verb of the overcoming it's no no fun. It's done. It's boring. Jeez,

the story's over. Once we get to the overcame, we just want to see the overcoming. And if we see life in ourselves and our own story, it's a constant state of trying to overcome. You never get to a spot where you go, ah, I had now, I overcame. It's always, again, back to the verb. It's the fall without the floor. It's constant trying to overcome. And if we can see that and not get frustrated and go, why haven't I landed yet? Oh, like he said, there's no ground. Oh, what? Oh, and just go, well, that's it. You just keep turning the page, keep writing the book, keep falling. And if you fall long enough, even if, say, for gravity's sake, yeah, I say this.

I had this T-shirt I had made that I love making. You probably see it from the bumper stickers in the book. And it was a stick figure walking on the on a globe of the earth. And under it said, it's all downhill. And actually, it was like scientifically, it is all downhill. And if you because the world's round. Another one, I said, it's just if you're high enough, the sun's always shining. And everyone always comes to me.

It's like, oh, that's that's a, oh, that's a call out to weed. I was like, no, it's actually scientific facts. If you're above the clouds, the sun's always out. So anyway, it's two ways of flipping a perceived fall into a rise or seeing a perceived scarcity, the abundance, which is actually there. Yeah, no, I totally agree. I mean, it's interesting, the framework that you have, you know, like red, yellow, green light, it's the core of your book, you know, it's, it's about sort of like having all these moments and circumstances drop into your life, or sometimes you create them and transforming something into something that it wasn't, it's an alchemical process.

And I was thinking about those three different, call them states, like the red light state, the yellow light state, the green light state, because we inhabit each one of those. And I'm thinking to myself, the aspiration is to turn it into a green light, whether it's red or yellow, but I'm thinking to myself also, and I'm curious how you feel about this. There's something, there's something in my head, which is saying, but the most sacred state is not green. It's yellow. You know, because that, that is this,

this state of anticipation and possibility going both ways. Right, right, right, right. You can slow down and stop or you can run. Yeah, yeah, yeah run yeah yeah yeah that's cool that's the verb actually interesting because i've been talking about this over the last few weeks i i you know sort of some other new ideas start to crystallize um and when i'm talking about green lights is like one thing is that well, if they're all green, then we're just flying down a highway. We're going to run out of gas and we're going in circles. There's no evolution.

I was raised by my mom to see life as one big green light. I mean, resilience. You fall down, you hit the yellow, the red, get up, dust yourself off. You run on that track, you step in the pothole, you get up and dust yourself off. You come around. But then what I noticed in my early 20s

and that year in Australia was like, well, wait a minute. I love that mom's put that in me and she's 88 and still practicing. So God bless her. She ain't changed. She's got it lit. But I'm like, okay,

resilience has been such a great value for me that's gotten me so much. And I think we could all have more of it because our bodies, our minds, our souls are much more, I think, resilient than we give them credit for. But I noticed if you get up and dust, if you step in the pothole in life and you get up and dust yourself off so quickly and move on, you become a repeat offender. Meaning you step in that damn pothole every single time. And you need to stop and go, well, I've done that. I did that twice in a row or three times or four times or 6,000 times in a row. Maybe instead of dusting myself off, I need to stop, get up, look back at that pothole walk back i know the

other racers and the runners in the race are passing me up now for the first time but let's go back and have a look where's that pot turn the thing it's a blind spot track okay have a look do a little create a yellow light to go let me have a pause and all of a sudden next time around you get to that point oh here comes the pothole i'm going to sidestep it and step around it, take another path, et cetera, et cetera. And there's some evolution. It's also what kind of green lights are we talking about? Well, there are battery powered green light. It's there and it shines bright, but it's going to go dim. But what are the solar powered green lights? The ones that are going to shine on further into that long view all the way to the future and are shining back or up and down on us and will continue to shine after we leave this life. And boy,

can those be the ones that we seek and in in seeking those, you're right. You find the yellows and even a red, but hopefully it's in that yellow light that you come across, that you create for yourself at the right time. Or create that red light when sometimes you got to go, I need a full stop, man. I got gotta completely recalibrate here but even making that choice everything i'm talking about is the yellow light is in the yellow light right yeah there's there's the there's the option there's the there's the audible there's the at every moment got another decision yeah i mean and that's why in my mind i was like this is the sacred state right right you, it's like we aspire to the enlightened state, you know? Yeah. But then, you know, like in the enlightened state, it's like, Oh, I'm done.

I've made it. It's like, no, you know, like get up in the morning, chop wood, carry water. You know, it's like the yellow state. I mean, in my mind, when you vanish, you know, like when you pack a bag and you go out to the desert, you know, like you're, you're, you're stepping into the yellow zone. You're stepping into this sacred place where you don't know if you go out to the desert, you're stepping into the yellow zone. You're stepping into this sacred place where you don't know if you're going to succeed or not. But the ingredients for a soup that could taste awful or it could taste awesome are

in the pack with you. And you're willfully saying, I'm going to go there and see what happens. That's where the magic is, I think. Yeah. That's where the magic is. I think. Yeah. They're back to what you said earlier. The value of a vision is that it gives direction. You know, you just that you pack the stuff up so many times, you know, it's a, it's a simple metaphor, but I still like it.

It's like, what's the hardest part about working out, putting your shoes on, tying them. How many times just about getting out of the door. I was, I was, I was afraid to go see what was in that treasure chest of journals. And then all of a sudden, once I said yes, and my wife gave me, you know, kicking the backside, packed them up, put them in the car got my water my bourbon and my beef and headed out before i was out of the driveway i was like oh yeah fuck that was all it's all it was you just had to pack it and you just had to pack up the car and put in and shut the door and pull out of the driveway. Oh, it was, it was party time in, you know, it was fun. It was exciting.

And cause I had, when I was going away to go be packed, I didn't know what it was going to be, you know, but you're right. Just see, pack up the backpack and whatever it is and head out and go find out. And yeah, that is, that is yellow. And in that yellow, in that proverbial And in that yellow, in that proverbial yellow, constant yellow,

therein lies a green light. Yeah. Yeah. In a really past life, I was back in the city. I was a personal trainer and I used to meet my clients very often and we'd work out outside in Central Park in New York.

And I used to meet this one guy like three, four times a week at 6 a.m. to run. Now, you can't see the rest of my body. I am not a runner, but I did it because that was my job. And this is going on for a couple of months. And one day he shows up, it's six in the morning, my body hurts, it's dreary. And he jogs up and he starts cracking up and i'm like what's going on man and he's like dude you go home right now it's like the the only reason i pay you is because i know that if i'm paying you i'm gonna like wake up at 5 35 get my shoes on be miserable put a t-shirt on and go meet you because you're there for me.

Right. But once I'm here, I don't need you to go run the loop. I'm good. Just meet me here tomorrow morning. Just make sure you're here when I show up. Because if I show up for you, I'm good. Yeah. All right.

Oh, my. Oh, my. yeah all right oh my oh how many of those how much of life is that right there i don't want to do it but i know after i do i'll be really happy i did how much of that of just overcoming that little resistance. No, get out the door. No, go do it. Go lend that hand. Go spend that time with your kid. No take off time. Go to a go have that sit down with your wife. Cause you have been so busy and it's been three days in a row that at 10

PM, you're kind of checking in with each other for the first time. Yeah. Go take that time for yourself. You know, no, no, I'll be fine. No, I'll be fine. No, go take a mosey, buddy. I mean, take a little quiet time. Listen. Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here.

It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum.

Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th.

Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. I think that is sometimes the power of habit and ritual.

It's kind of interesting because a lot of what we've been talking about is being really intentional about the things that we do and be present in the things that we were just talking about, that's, I think a lot of times where, where, where habit comes in, where we actually, the, the, the behavior that allows us to step into actions that we perceive as being unpleasant, even though we know they're going to make us feel better after we do them. You know, it's, it's just those neural grooves. It's the repetition of showing up, showing up, showing up, showing up. So it no longer becomes a conscious thought process. It just happens. And so, I mean, I'm fascinated by the question of, you know, like, where is the line in life? You know, like, what do we do?

What does it make sense to put into the habit folder where it just becomes unconscious? And what does it make sense to put into the intentional, be fully present and let it unfold however it is? And then I think there's a third bucket, right? Also, ritual, which is the things we do every day or every Friday night or every, you know, for you. I know you have a gratitude practice before you eat meals, you know, where it's like you want the behavior to happen habitually, but you want the experience of it to be intentional. Yeah. Would you say the habits come first and they create the intentionality and the intentionality

creates the ritual? I mean, rituals are intentional. I know there's rituals I have that I'm very intentional about because that two prayers before prayer, before lunch and the gratitude for lunch and gratitude for dinner. It brings our family together. It's sharing a personal each one of us go around the horn and say one thing. And it kind of brings us together. It a scattered day becomes less scattered for everybody. The communion, I can be working, I'm very self-involved, and I can sit down and hear my child say something they're thankful for about that day, and I listen to it, see it from their point of view. So I'm becoming more aware of the world around me and not just through my own prism, which I know is good for me. It selfishly even feels good and it relaxes me.

And the work I go back and do after that, because I've thought of the world through my son's eyes, because of what he said at gratitude at lunch, I'm having a better conversation with you here, so to speak, or I'm seeing my work more creative with it. Do you think there's a. Are all three of those buckets dancing together, do you think? Do you think there's a it goes in a version of habit, intention, ritual?

Yeah, I think it actually goes. It's a really interesting question, right? My immediate, my gut level response is it may be the opposite. Actually, it starts with intention. And then you make a choice. Well, then you have to split out the behavioral pattern and then the actual behavior. So the behavioral container is the habit. It's like the thing that I want to happen over and over, but then the actual behavior, do I want it? If I have to ritualistically drive everywhere I go, I'm going to be exhausted every time I get out of the car. I kind of want that to be fairly habitual. If I'm going back and forth, if I'm making the same commute every day

for years, your brain isn't all that conscious in it. And that's a good thing because it gets hyper-efficient when you go into habit mode. And it gives you the bandwidth, the juice to really give it to the stuff that matters, the ritual and then the novel stuff, which doesn't happen on a repeated basis. But I think in the beginning, it's all about intention. It's like, what am I going to do and choose? Because I have to choose. I have to discern what am I going to choose? Because I have to choose. I have to discern what bucket I want to put different things into. And then the third bucket is just neither of the two, but just, I just want to be present in whatever novel things happen in my life.

Does that land with you? Right. Yeah. No, I'm completely purchased that. Yeah. I'm with you on intention first because even the intention to form good habits and become a slave to good habits is an intentional choice um what about you know yeah that our commute it's just it's just what I got to do but instead of going no

what if it's more than just what i gotta do what did i always do you know or i've had times in life where i'm like no actually i love i'm gonna make that out really work for me because i'm gonna get some work done or other times i'm like no i'm actually not getting any work done i'm going to listen to some great music man music i don't have it enough in my life now i really want to get back to some great album or no, I've been listening to way too much music. I'm going to listen to an audio book or something that's going to inspire me or feed me. It's going to be a bit of meditation on the drive to and from.

And I've had, you know, we do that. All of a sudden we look forward to that drive. And that drive has real intention. And it's not just, ho-hum, damn it. I got that hour and a half to hour drive every day. We make it, can we make it really useful to feed us? Yeah. No, I love that. And I think let's riff on the exercise example that we were talking about, talking about in different ways earlier.

Also, like most people, the example, people, the example, I run five miles three days a week. And I don't do it because I love running. I do it because I know it's good for me and it does all the yada, yada. And that repetition for most people, the behavioral container for it, like I get my shoes on, I show up, I do it, it just becomes automatic. But then the actual 50 minutes running, most people spin out into all sorts of different things where they listen to the audio book, they listen to their songs to distract them from how monotonous and repetitive the actual behavior is. We see this in gyms all the time. What was the first thing that happened when gyms

started trying to optimize revenue per square foot and they put in tons of treadmills and all sorts of other stuff. It's so monotonous and maniacal that the next biggest investment is devices to distract you from that. Here's an interesting challenge. What could you do with nothing outside of yourself to turn that exact same behavior or experience into something where you're hyper present and it's nourishing, you know? Yeah. So I know people that run and they focus pretty intensively on their breath and on their steps and on the world around them. So instead of drifting off or someplace, or instead of listening with earbuds in, they never run with music.

They never run with anything. They want to be utterly present in the breath and the step and the moment that they're in as they're out running. And they love it. But that is a practice. It doesn't come naturally for most people. No, no, no, no. And I do know some of those people you're talking about

and that rhythm of their breath and their steps become their music. That becomes their metronome. That becomes their their click track. And how does it speed up when you hit the hill? And how does it slow down when you go down the hill? Where is it from the beginning when you set the baseline to where you get back five miles later how much has your heart rate gone up and the bpms have sped up in your tune um i've i've had practice of that um i didn't stick to them for too long um i went over and get and placated

myself with some tunage or or or, or, or, you know, or some sports game I wanted to hear in the background. And all of a sudden kind of enjoyed the fact that that hour was over a little quicker than I thought it was going to be. Yeah. I mean, look that baseline in a, in a way, how much have we all were conscious or not conscious, been stripped back to our own facilities through this seven months of COVID? How much do we even know? Has it gone on long enough for us to continue whatever healthy practice we've been forced to find or new habits we've been forced, maybe without intention, just been forced to because winter was thrown on us. We didn't seek it.

And it came in May. You know, how much of that will we take forward as people when we engage, when we are told consensually we can go engage it? Or do we snap right back to how we were and go up? Glad that was done. Little blip. Because we have been forced to do inventory, whether we realize it or not, I think. Everybody. And that's a good thing.

But will we, I'm curious, will we evolve out of this? Has this time been a yellow light or a red light in our in our in our yellow light of choice where our floor was moved like really moved not just shaken moved enough or collectively we all get a lesson from this yeah it's like is it an act of reversion or progress right it kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier when you were talking about resilience you know it can be a bit of a double-edged sword you know are you reverting you know are you resilient because it allows you to revert back to the way things were and get back to normal or does the resilience move you forward into a new reality that you create that is better

maybe not just for you but for society at large yeah yeah yeah it's it is gonna i have the same question i think a lot of people do right now on and i know what i hope for yeah. And you know what? It's the other question is, is and it's you'll know what I'm talking about. But and I don't mean because it's the thing is time has been tragic for many and awkward, at least for all. But. Is it has it gone on long enough for us to learn? As you know, as the sabbatical, the penance, the walkabout, the forced, the stripping of certain down to certain necessities, the lack of all the options, all the frequencies that we could go engage with. Have we gone without the right things for long enough to actually go? No, I've changed. My value system has changed.

My ladder has been reproportioned about where my values are. And it can come back to the light of day and everyone can say we can go out and dance again, but I'm a different person. I see the world differently. I think that's going to be select. I don't think we're going to do that as an overall collective. I think that's a sort of a utopian sort of pipe dream. Yeah. But.

I think it comes back to stakes. We were talking about early, you know, so as a New Yorker, we got hit so hard and so early. There's nobody that I know like in New York that either wasn't sick, knew a lot of people who were sick, and didn't lose somebody pretty quickly. So the stakes for us, we were touched in a way that now

a lot of the rest of the country is getting touched. And I agree, it's really weird for you to be saying, well, has it gone on long enough? And at the same time, I understand what you're saying in that if we are looking for a society scale effect that leads to an evolutionary impact that's constructive and good and compassionate for everybody, human nature is really weird in that it rarely ever changes without us being brought in some way, shape or form to our knees. I wish it was otherwise. And I think that's kind of what we're talking about. Yeah. We're pretty thick headed that way. I'm raising my hand, right? I'm not exempt from any of this. Oh, but I'm guilty too, man. I mean, has it become personal? It's got to become personal. And I, you know, as it become personal, it's gotta become personal.

And I don't, you know, as it become personal enough for me, look, I sit here in a privileged position, you know, my pantry's full. I was able to get my mom.

She'd been with us for, she's 88, been with us for seven months. We're kind of living in a place where the hibernation is pretty doggone luxurious i'm able to communicate with the world do my work pay the rent through things i'm doing remotely i understand i'm sitting in a privileged position has it you know become personal enough for me i don't know i could say yeah i'm gonna put my hand up too and go uh well that's kind of really up to me i'll see we'll see you know um you think i don't know i

mean i always thought like like isis i was like ah 9-11 that's gonna do it that's gonna be what's gonna bring us all together we finally got somebody like you know the first thing since hitler that we can all agree on bad guy this is going to be inversely good for our society. It didn't really. We had some parades. We had some overall, you know, as an entire country. And even outside of those walls, as nations, we didn't really I don't know. I haven't seen it that we really came together made some evolutionary change um as an overall i'm talking about as a collective obviously you

know you mean something even different to you it's more personal to you being there in new york and to new yorkers being there in new york it means it's more personal but how personal was it to us i thought it was going to be i personal. But how personal was it to us? I thought it was going to be, I thought it was something that was gonna be so personal to all Americans that we were really going to quit looking at the mendacities of certain things where we're not compassionate and that we measure other people. And it wasn't going to matter what sex you were, what race you were, whatever. Hey, we're in this together. We've got to, we've got to, we've got to band together here and make sure we handle ourselves more than more than revealed but evolved didn't completely happen i would argue i thought

covid was then i covid came i was like ah there's another secret weapon you know in a invisible enemy who wants hand-to-hand combat to win. Oh, this is a different kind of thing. Cool. I know, I remember first going, oh, that sort of American's like, get out and meet him at the gate. No, no, no. How do we change that?

No, no, not this one. No, no, no. You know, wear a mask. Actually, this one, your biggest sword and shield in this battle is actually to go home or stay in or to wear a mask. Where that is the shield.

And that hasn't worked on a consensus level. And then the fact that it was all in this election year where different stations were making their own, had different, they had a different tally sheet for what for who what we were losing and who how many people we were losing for what the body count was was tallied up on two different two different uh uh scorecards leading to well where we where we believe we are now you know and how much do we you know go let's dive into this how could i believe that it has to be personal yeah i do too i mean that it has to be i would love to believe otherwise like i'd love to believe you read a book or you see a documentary and you're like

that's it and i think for the rare person that does serve as a catalyst that rare person though wouldn't you say has the intention right there say, I'm going to make this habit, though. Because we intellectually love to say all for one, one for all. But until it gets on my property, until it gets in your house or in your neighborhood, do we really go? Do we really stand up and go, I'm taking the front line? Yeah. I think it's a rare person who does. And I have thought about, and I've had, I have talked to some of the smartest people in religion, in science and philosophy for a lot of years. And that's part of what this entire, you know,

good life project is about. And one of the big questions I've always asked in some way, shape or form is how do we awaken to some sort of constructive change that is not just cognitive, that's not just from the neck up, but is felt in the heart and then manifested in behavior. and without desire, aspiration, evidence, sure, it all helps. But until we actually feel the weight of it on a personal level, it's the rare person from what I have seen who is able to create a pretty substantial change in the way they interact with the world, the way they carry themselves in their lives, and then sustain that change. You brought up 9-11. New Yorker, what I can tell you is in

the three, four, five, six months immediately after that, New York was a profoundly different place. You would walk down the street. People would look you in the eye, which is against the rules in New York. They would acknowledge your existence. They would say hello. They would ask how you're doing, total strangers. And everyone wanted to know, how can I help? How can I be of service? So even when we feel it so viscerally, there's a time effect. The further we are from the experience of the immediate pain, the less likely the behavior is to last. So I almost think that there's a window. I'm curious how you feel about this.

There's this window for us to turn the behavior change into ritual and then into habit. And if we don't do it, by the time that the pain gets far enough away, then the behavior just vanishes. I mean, what do you think of that? Well, I hear you. I hear you. I hear you.

Those windows of opportunities, they do open up. And when you go, I think that's a window of opportunity. If you go further than that without taking action and you go, I think that's a window of opportunity. I think it's one of the most opportunities. I think I'm up. It's usually too late. If you see it, you feel it, it's true. Hit it. And, you know, I've been thinking about that a lot with where we are,

where we are now as a country. I was writing the other day, look, I think we just need to right now stabilize. Are we ready? But is that, am I wrong? Am I like, no, you don't stabilize right now. That's too passive. Actually take advantage of the confusion and the anarchy and the anger and the confusion and the disruption that we're in. Take advantage and show a new way now.

Not catch your breath. I do think there's great value in us right now catching our breath because people are tethered on extreme sides of things. But it's a good question. Am I being, is that a foolish thought? No, actually, that would be half-assing it to say, yeah, let's just stabilize right now. Actually, no, now's the time where people are looking for direction and a change more and an affirmative forward-moving action with which to choose anew and move forward. Yeah. I mean, we are, the entire world is in, you know, is in a yellow light, you know?

And the question is like, what is the path to green? You know, like is stabilizing actually going back to red or is it actually headed towards green? It's really, it's, and there's no, you know, it's easy to sort of like take a binary thought process here and but you know we're both old enough to know and lives enough a life to know that you know life doesn't work that way it's all gray right yeah yeah you're correct in at least many ways. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, you go, you know, because I, there's that old, there's also value to that. I think it's a Pearl Jam line or something. I don't know. I may have bought you said it, but, you know, you change a change by staying the same. You know what I mean? a change by staying the same you know i mean i mean i the hands of time and fads come in and social movements come in and they swing this way and that the other and if you're in a if you're in a pocket and you're in a pretty solid place even personally you become a very dynamic person in different ways even though you were pretty much kind of sticking to the same thing because ears changed, eyes changed. What was the lighting changed? The time of day, our our social movements changed, which it was which they do.

The seasons come and go and there's something to, you know, some sort of consistency that you go, oh, actually, that will reveal itself to be a very dynamic, different and affirmative and healthy way forward. You're like, oh, I was doing that, you know, 20 years ago as well. It's just brand new now. I mean, look, I, you know, to give a concrete example in my own life, you know, I go win an Oscar for best actor now all of a sudden after that happened I would say stuff and it would be in bold print and it was novel oh my gosh that's so great listen to Ta-da. And I'm over here snickering going, I said that eight years ago and it was on page 14, but I see it. You know, I'm not sure how that applies to what we're talking about. I just wanted to bring up that aside. I mean, how much, you know, is there worth in that? I do think that we have to, as a total and as individuals,

realign our value system. I do think that we have to take out of this or need to take out of this the answer to that personal question of I value what. And we've been massaging this the entire conversation of that long view to live a certain way without the desire without the result when how do you when you said without the payback without the candy at the end but there is candy at the end that's the I think that's the thing. What was it that made New York after six months where they said, ah, look at this relationship

I have. It's more personal. I'm more of a community. I don't know. Did crime go down? I mean, probably a lot of positive things came out of that. But then when did it revert? Again, away from the initial injury. What is it about us that goes well that look we prove it again that fear will absolutely cannibalize compassion and love almost every time in our in our human mammalian minds it works for any political campaign it's worked always worked where do we go no the affirmative actually has teeth. The healthy, true has teeth. Because it does. But what is it that we don't, again, it's back to that, I don't know what I'm am, but I'm going to feel better about myself if I put you down.

It goes back to that way. Just go to the fear thing. Go to the I don't know, let me just let me just look at something ugly and shine a light on that. And then that makes me feel more clean or more pretty. What is it you know, that that we can say more of us? Again, I think it's individual. I think it starts in the mirror. I completely agree with you. I mean, I think it's individual. I think it starts in the mirror. maybe a month and maybe a year but it's it's like from the moment that it's open every subsequent moment is a process of closing unless we apply effort to keep it open and like while it's still open build the structures for sustained change yeah you know and and and part of that i think

both individually and and you know like large scale you know, we love a common enemy, but we do ourselves and we do society so wrong when we make that common enemy our fellow human beings. And I think that's the place that we're in right now, rather than saying, you know, there is something that needs to change. There's a source of pain, but it's not my neighbor. And I think that's where we go sideways, but there is this window and I think we're all in it right now and trying to wonder. And I think the window for me is always like, what needs to happen for one person to see another person's humanity. Because I think if we, if we can do that, you know, everything changes, you know? And so. How much does forgiveness have to do with that? And I, and, and, and I, and that word just comes to mind because it goes again back.

It's not just about forgiving somebody else about forgiving ourselves. I mean, how much do we, how much do I not like you because i see my part of myself in you that i don't like always it's a part of it always you know um how's forgiveness seen as something that's not regressive again oh that's new testament uh-uh we're gonna brimstone this situation whoa how's that? How can that seem like an aggressive? Because I do think these things have to, but the spirituality needs,

we got to put the science behind it, you know, because, or if we don't, we're never going to get 50% of us. We got, we got to put the nuts and bolts. We got it. We got it. We got it. We got we got to put the nuts and bolts. We got it. We got it. We got it. We got it. We got to see the proverbial cash money from the doing being our better selves, being our truer selves, being our more compassionate selves. You know, whatever, whatever that whatever those things we can fit in that umbrella that we can all go. Yeah, I mean, I'm for that. Now show me how I'm getting paid back show me how show me how it's paying my rent show me how it's helping me sleep better show me how it's improving my relationship show me how it's proving me and i'm enjoying my own company more but also also also i need to pay my rent now can i pay my rent can i have a non-profit idea for profit i'm in but it needs to be for profit. You know, where can those two,

can we understand that those, or make, or like you said, build a system that that's what it pays. That's what it values. That's what society rewards. Because I don't, I'm not, I'm not up right now in my life. I'm not up for, I don't even, I'm having trouble fathoming the fight

of taking it out of a capitalist sort of. Yeah, I get it. And I'm, I'm there with you. They're, they're utopian philosophical conversations. And then there's like, okay, but we're waking up in this place right now. You know, like, what do we do that's practical and workable? It's like, where's the sweet spot between those two, right? You know, cause you got to go into the philosophical side, you know, but at the same time, you got to wake up in the morning and be like, oh. Well, that's the intention. Right. I got food to put on the table and I have rent to pay and I got people waiting on me and I'm scared, you know, and you got to deal with that.

And I think that's where the work is, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's where we got to go from yellow to green. And sometimes it,

sometimes it's more linear and more easy to figure out. And then sometimes it is at scale and the decision has to be made collectively. Like you said, it starts individually, but then, you know, the adoption has to scale for something to really happen in a major way. And I keep going back to, it's one of the things I do. Do I help here? Do I make introductions? Do I donate money?

Do I raise my voice? Yes. And at the same time, part of what I'm trying to do, and it's interesting to me because it seems like part of the choices that you have made, especially in this sort of later season of your career, have been to tell the stories that allow us to see our shared humanity in people who don't seem to be like us in ways who we don't bump into and allow them to see, oh, they're above God's grace, go I, whether you're religious or not. And I think if that switch gets flipped, so many other dominoes tumble after that. And like you said, that probably needs to happen

just on a one-by-one basis and hope that there's a ripple effect. So my head is constantly going to, how can I play a role in telling those stories where I'm not beating somebody over the head and saying, listen to me, like see somebody else's humanity. I'm simply, I'm sharing a story where if somebody sees it, it is impossible not to understand that we are in this together. Well, we could, if we could get a true measurement, a reciprocist measurement for how we get a like response from the soul that we give out. That's true. That happens. Sometimes, I mean, it's happened in good ways for me out of pure ignorance.

Geez, I got great responses from things because I didn't know better. You know, where I look back, I'm like, geez, you could have been killed in that position. What were you doing there? Well, I went into it with child's eyes and I got a wonderful response back where if I'd have known the laws, rules, regulations, or wisdom that I have now, I'd have been like, I wouldn't get within a mile from that place in that time. But how can we intentionally understand how can we have the intention of going, no, if I put this out, it comes back. But it's tangible. It's got to be tangible. My hunch is that if we individually can say, all right, I'm going to

give this a shot. I'm going to look in the mirror and say, how can I be a little bit better today? Maybe that's a little more fair. Maybe that's a little more responsible. Maybe that's having a better sense of humor. Maybe that's spending a little more time with herself or children, being a better father, whatever that is a little bit better. I'm not going to be our best. Let's make sure we all understand this. There's no best. We're not getting there. So let's take the pressure off everybody. Or I'm going to forgive this person. I'm going to forgive myself for this thing. I'm going to do a little bit better. If enough of us do that,

that is inherently becomes the collective change. And it actually doesn't ripple down. It actually envelops. And you look around and you go, oh yeah, everybody's doing it. You know, and all of a sudden you go, how do we make a change? We didn't make it through a policy.

We didn't legislate the doggone thing. We showed people that you can not, and I'm not, we're talking about living longer. We showed people you can live, you know, a more joyful existence and also succeed in life by valuing these things that we can all agree on. I see, I can't see you unless you see me. You can't see me unless I see you. But what we give out, it does, it does usually come back and everyone's got it in them. We're not uncovering. It's not about uncovering something that people are going to go, what are they talking about? What side of me am I talking? No, everyone's got it. And I don't think it's not rocket science. I think it's stuff our mom has tried to teach us. That we've I don't know, grown out of and the weeds have

grown over that proverbial diamond in us. But we got to tend our garden again and ask ourselves that question you know we all want to be again on the capital side we all want to be relevant we want to be yeah and significant you know which i think is different yeah well and i'll even go towards i'm trying to lean into that these things that that that are the candy that we reach to like to try and say well here's how irrelevance or here's how fame is great yes it's okay to want that i'm not saying don't want that but for at what expense make sure first we go well not at the expense of this part who i

am well great let's eliminate the what what why we what we're not going to do to get it. And it's okay to have that. But we're in a time where major distrust, especially by the youth, anybody can be an expert if they just say they are. Oh yeah, do. Hell, I'm going to listen to you and go in there and tell my family at lunch, this is the latest news. And your name's John Doe and you just made it up. And you had a really cool title that made

it sound really in a good font and it looked really professional and hell, I'm not sure where else I'm getting my news from. So this guy, you know, with news beat of the world, facts on check 24 seven. I was like, geez, I'm listening to this guy. He just typed that up this morning and he's actually playing a ruse. You know, where do we. Oh, and also this, are we in a spot where we're getting so strained into our individual spots in our little our little little tribes that we're not actually sure we're about, but we just know we don't like what they're about. Are we in a spot where because I'm seeing I've, I've heard some people come to me that are having buyer's remorse on this extreme individual movement that they're going. I went, I needed purpose. I needed identity. I ran to this group.

And now that I'm hanging out with them, I'm actually saying these are not the kind of people that I want to be hanging out with. I ran too far and I'm seeing some buyer's remorse. So is that place in the proverbial middle of come on over here, come on over here, let's meet, look at each other. Is that a place we were going to go maybe aggressively? No, that's an aggressive place to go. That's a proactive, that's an I dare you place to go. Whereas before I thought it was like the wussy place to go. But now I'm like, actually, that looks pretty badass badass you got to be a badass to be there

because because there's not many people there maybe that's it because it's it's not popular you know so it's actually a rebellious move yeah i mean i think there's something to that and i also goes all the way back to you know we're kind of coming full circle here right you know the beginning of our conversation about nature and solitude and touching stone, and there's a mythology behind that. While there's a definite effect, which is positive in a lot of ways, there's also a literary mythology, Thoreau's, like I went to the woods, right? There is this intense ethos of self-reliance and independence, which on the

one hand is really good, right? Because it gives us a stance of self-efficacy and responsibility. Yeah. But on the other hand, taken to the absolute extreme, also potentially alienates us from a greater sense of responsibility from like what so many people would define as character, you know, to the greater collective, to the whole, you know, so there's like this, there's a sweet spot that I think, or there's this, there's this duality where we want to cultivate the skills and the practices and the capacity for self-reliance and responsibility and take responsibility for ourselves and make something, create something, contribute something. And yet, there's no human

being that can exist in isolation for any longer than a heartbeat without crippling themselves and crippling society and eventually crippling the world and i think we're grappling with a culture that is sort of like those those tensions are coming to a head right now well i think we could all use a little more self-reliance which gives us courage to go i'm going to engage. I see the collective. I think the true part of understanding or true self-reliance is not, unless you want to become a hermit or a monk, I mean, where most of us aren't, but is that you then go, oh, I'm courageous enough to see myself. I'm courageous enough to be constructive with my, my, my fellow man and woman. Yeah. I, I wonder though, whether part of self-reliance is not just, it is almost the delusional belief that it's about the ability of not just

cultivating the skills to take care of myself. But also then that removes me from the need to contribute to others. And I don't think that is assumed in all the early writings and all the thinking about several lines, but I feel like on society writ large, somehow that's kind of gotten lost along the way. It's like, I think about the family you grew up in, right? You write about this so eloquently. There's a fierce sense of self-reliance in your family. And yet you are devout to, you know, like your mom, your dad, your brothers, like there was nothing that any of you wouldn't do for each other. That doesn't mean that you don't have

this capacity for self-reliance, but it means that you also understand that it exists within this larger context of contribution and love and elevating, you know, not just your put teeth on these empathetic terms and things that we all know are good, but can feel like, oh, I don't get the tactile of that love and compassion and loyalty or whatever, whatever, whatever forgiveness, you read the book. Love in our house was furthest from passive as it could be. It was downright bloody at times. It was hardcore. It broke down walls. It defended places, coordinates on the earth that could not be, that were unpenetrable, you know, by anything or any entity at any time. But the love had teeth. I mean, just like the truth. I mean, I think this, all of this, if we can put the edge, people can understand the edge and the teeth that these things can have.

So they're seen as more tacked out. They're seen from the more callous, our more callous selves as, oh, that's a weapon. Badass. Oh, that's still rock and roll. That's not a symphony. I'm not going over there to the orchestra. No, this is right. I think if we could put it there,

people can digest it that way and understand that it has chutzpah to it. It's got fangs. And it does. Maybe, you know, I think that would help that maybe we can more of us understand that. That it's an aggressive move.

I guess what i'm saying if there's a better word you know that that love and fairness and and taking care of yourself and looking out for each other that's aggressive there's the badass you know yeah i mean it's love is not a stance you know it is it is motion right you know and and like you said it's got teeth sometimes and it's got arms that wrap around you sometimes you know yep yep um yeah feels like a good place for us to come full circle also man so uh hanging out here in this uh container of good life project if i offer up this one phrase to live a good life what comes up well i'm gonna repeat with the one you one you said that i'm really digging right now true value of a vision that gives direction

um i look to piggyback on a real simple one that we just talked about love and how it can have teeth times man when we're lost and wondering, times like we're in right now, it's hard to have hope. You know, I'm reminded of my mom. You have children, and people give you a lot of books after they've raised children. And I remember going, man, this feels like, I don't like that.

Did we ask for books, Camilla? Because, man, people are offing up a lot of books. I go, you got to read this one. And I remember being like, hang on a second, look at this huge stack of books. And I was reminded of what something my mom said early on in our childhood and seems to be a common denominator across the board about raising children. What are you going to do? There's all these ways to do it. And I remember she would look, if you just love them, you can't go wrong. And that as any parent knows, loving our children the most in the truest way is not about saying yes to everything is not about every single thing. It may, it may be a hug

in a lesson learned, but it is about teaching them, nudging them, putting in front of them what they love, letting them go navigate their own thing that may be enough harm. Maybe let them get the bumps and bruise. Rather than not do the thing that breaks their arm, but let them go get the bumps and bruise. Let them get some dirt under their nails and figure it out. But if you love them, you can't go wrong. And let's think about that in our own lives as love is a weapon instead of as a, maybe a passive regressive thing that we like to parlay over here. Well, well, if I'm too loving, then I'm, then I'm going to be losing.

Trust it. Trust it's actually a weapon. Thank you, man. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it,

if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at sparkotype.com. That's S-P-A-R-K-E-T-Y-P-E.com. Or just click the link in the show notes. And of course, if you haven't already done so, be sure to click on the subscribe button in your listening app so you never miss an episode. And then share, share the love. If there's something that you've heard in this episode

that you would love to turn into a conversation, share it with people and have that conversation. Because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold. See you next time. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program,

they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca.

The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum.

Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun On January 24th Tell me how to fly this thing Mark Wahlberg

You know what the difference Between me and you is? You're gonna die Don't shoot him, we need him Y'all need a pilot Flight Risk