Good Life Project - Miles Chamley-Watson | Redefining Cool

Episode Date: February 15, 2021

Miles Chamley-Watson is on a mission to take fencing mainstream. A British-born, 6-foot-four Black man, covered in tattoos with bleached blond hair, he breaks pretty much every generations-old assumption and mold about what the staid, traditionally-conservative and often elitist sport is about. Miles actually struggled a lot as a young kid, especially with focus, attention and school, until one day a teacher introduced him to fencing. That moment changed everything. He was obsessed and it gave him a physicalized way to learn and develop intense focus that soon became the driving force in his life. Miles wanted to be the best in the world and win the Olympics. And indeed, already a world champion and an Olympic medalist, he’s well on his way. Miles also decided to redefine the public perception of the sport, to make it more modern, alive, high-profile and appealing to a younger generation, especially those often excluded from the pursuit. And he’s on a mission to reimagine the financial side of this sport, introducing a level of popular appeal, relevance and excitement that’s landed him a huge social media following and big endorsement deals with brands like Coach and Red Bull.You can find Miles Chamley-Watson at:Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/fencer/-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My guest today, Miles Chamblee Watson, is on a mission to take fencing mainstream. A British-born, 6'4 black man covered in tattoos with bleached blonde hair. He breaks pretty much every generation's old assumption and mold about what the staid, traditionally conservative and often elitist sport is all about. Miles actually struggled a lot as a kid, especially with focus and attention and school, until one day a teacher introduced him to fencing. That moment for him, well, it changed everything. He was obsessed and it gave him this physicalized way to learn and to develop intense focus that soon changed everything in his life and became a bit of a driving force. Miles wanted to be the best in the world and win the Olympics. And indeed, already a world champion and an Olympic medalist, he's

well on his way. Miles also decided to redefine the public perception of the sport to make it more modern and alive and high profile, really appealing to a younger generation, especially those like him who were often excluded from the pursuit. And he's on a mission to also reimagine the financial side of the pursuit, introducing a level of popular appeal, relevance, and excitement that's landed him huge social media followings and big endorsement deals with brands like Coach and Red Bull. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required.

Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is?

You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. You're up in Vancouver doing some training, but pretty much raised in New York. But I guess even before that, born in London or around London. Tell me a little bit about sort of early life for you before you headed to the States.

I was born in London, born in Brixton and Ealing Broadway, which is kind of outside London. I was playing football growing up. That's kind of the only sports up. Football, rugby, cricket. It's kind of what London is known for. And then my mother met my stepdad,

who's my dad. And he was like, hey, I'm moving back to New York City. You want to come? And she's like, yes. And I was like, no, I do not want to go. I was 10. You know, it's like the prime age when all your friends are there.

And so that really kind of sucks for me. And I get thrown right into public school in the middle of the year because we kind of moved i would say like january february like a weird time right into public school and i was obviously like a kind of pain in the butt look and ants in my pants kid just kind of getting into trouble all the time and i got kicked out of the public school ps37 hello um and then my mother met this lady who was in the admissions program for the dwight school which is a private school and i was like okay let's give it a shot let's kind of try it out and see what happens and i got in by my charm and um as punishment well not punishment as like a stipulation or or whatever you want to call it i had to pick up

tennis badminton or fencing from 3 to 4 30 as like my extra curriculum punishment i was like whatever swords of fun have fun with this and i was like oh wow like i can stab you and not get into trouble like this is quite fun and it I slowly started to get better in school and just kind of fell in love with the sport of fencing just the art of you know one-on-one combat but like a little superhero uh and then you know that was when I really started to take the sport seriously when I moved to America yeah I mean it sounds like also um I know you you describe yourself as very, I'm like, I remember reading this quote, very ADHD, super crazy, couldn't sit still. You couldn't tell me anything. I was this hothead kid from London. When you end up at Dwight, it sounds like also part of what was going on with you

is learning struggles and attention struggles. And so part of the fencing then, was that required? Was, was the sport required for everyone? Or were people looking at you and saying, Hey, listen, this kid needs to be, he needs to explore the world and to learn and like to, to move his body in a way that's different in order to sort of like allow him to sort of be able to, to, to focus back in and be himself. Yeah. So great question. So I honestly think it was someone they saw as like this kid kind of ADHD, ADD, dyslexic, whatever you want to call him. Let's give him a sport where he kind of has to figure things out, right?

Because fencing is like chess and boxing. You have to use your mind, but also you have to kind of think ahead. So I think they saw this as like I mean most kids weren't fencing you know like I think there was select few maybe like 10 kids in my class and I think that's kind of what they saw in me and the lady named Ellen Grayson is the woman who changed my life she was like Miles I think not only can you get into college I was like college what's that in London's like university I was like i didn't think that was even a possibility and then that's when i really was like okay this sport is not just like the parent trap it's really got some beautiful combat

but like mental warfare that kind of encumbers into one umbrella and i think that is what drew me to the sport yeah do you remember the first time you picked up i don't know if it would have been a foil back then or whatever it was like do you remember having an immediate reaction or a sense that like oh this is different i do so we were in the gym and it was foam swords like foam swords like i was like 11 you couldn't even like actually use the real ones yet so it's foam we're like hitting each other in the head with them and she's like miles like pay attention i'll never forget i was like i'm sorry i'm sorry and then i was like when we get to use the real ones and she was like you know when you get to certain

level i was like okay and then that was when i was like, I want to try the real sword. So it was like maybe two weeks to three weeks of this foam sword kind of. But I'll never forget it. It was like this little gym and there were padded wolves. I don't know why they're padded wolves. And it was like 10 of us in the class. And it ended you from 10 to 14. And that was my first memory of the sport. Yeah. to 14 and that was my first memory of the sport yeah and it sounds like for you the like you immediately had a goal you're kind of like okay i want to be done with the film yeah exactly i was

like okay this is kind of fun but like where's the real sabang and that's when i was like oh it's possible so just kind of keep going and then now we're here honestly like it's a wild ride yeah i mean when you pick it up at 10 or 11 years old right there are 10 kids in the class um dwight is a well-known uh school in new york city um was fencing kind of an unusual thing for kids to do there or how is it looked at with your fellow students oh it's not a cool thing it's not like oh you fence no but i was like what's wrong with that i was like you put a ball in the hoop cool you know like no disrespect to anybody playing basketball i love that sport too but i was like what's so not cool about playing with swords you You know what I mean? I was like, I basically wanted to be a superhero and turn that into my passion, into my job, essentially.

So you get made fun of all the time. What did you play with sticks today? And I'm like, mate, oh, you just wait. And then that kind of fueled me into this what I am now, I think, was people telling me, you know, what are you going to do with this sport? Like, what are you going to do with it? I can't make any money't make any money it's not cool you know like i can't get any girls and i'm like well girls aren't like like a sword fighter you know i said i was like okay and then that's kind of what fueled me at that age it's like oh you don't think i can do this watch and then it went and turned into a different animal then.

Yeah, so it's almost like people saying, okay, you're doing something that's not all that acceptable, not all that cool. It's not going to give you status or money or power or relationships. So why bother doing it? And you're like just, and that for you, it's interesting because especially as a kid in the teens where you've just come from another country, you really just want to be accepted.

A lot of kids would have probably caved and said, let me just do whatever's going to let me fit in the most here. And for you, it was the exact opposite. You're like, no, no, no, I'm going to show them all. Oh, I could just, I never get into people's faces. Oh my God. They were like, dude, pick up something cool, man. You're from London, play soccer.

And I was like, what's soccer? It's football, first off. And I was playing football too at the? It's football, first off. And I was playing football, too, at the same time, until about 14 as well. Then I was like, you know what? You guys should have never fueled this beast, because I'm not stopping. And then I was like, and I started to get better in school.

As I started to dedicate more time to fencing, I started to get into less trouble. And then once I found fencing, I started to get into less trouble. And then once I found fencing, boom, 9-11 hits. And I'm like, oh, like my stepdad who was working in finance at the time was working at the World Financial Center, which was right next to the World Trade Center. He was late that morning. I mean, crazy. Couldn't even. And he got, everybody got fired. So he had no job, nothing.

So we had to move to Philadelphia and get ready for this. They throw me into a Quaker school. And I'm like, what is Quaker? I'm like, oats? Like, yeah. And what I tell you, that didn't last very long, I'll kick that right away.

You basically have to sit still for, I think it's 20 minutes a day for a meeting for worship. And I'm just like, guys, all due respect, this is not working for me. You call your teachers by their first name, like, hey, Steve. I'm like, this is weird. It's a very amish kind of way i think still or it was back then i think a lot of amish kids were there and i just was so out of place a london kid who fenced i don't know like no one even knew what that meant i literally they thought i put up fences i'm not even kidding you they thought fences were living yeah i mean by the time you

you moved to philly um so that would have been 2001 right so did you identify because there's there's like this there's a point where people tend to say oh i do this thing and then you it becomes so much a part of you that you change you start saying i am uh so instead of saying like oh like i do i fence you say i am a fencer it becomes like an identity level thing like sort of like so core to who you are by the time that you moved to philly do you feel like you had made that transition or were you still sort of like earlier on like it was just something you do it wasn't so much something that you are yeah i don't think it was until I would say 14, 15. So yeah, I'll tell you about the journey. So I was in Philadelphia, right?

Yeah. Nobody fenced. The atmosphere was just, didn't like it. And I was like, mom, I need to go to New York City. She was like, well, okay, well, there's two trains you can take. So I would take off to school. This is when I realized I am a fencer this is when it changed for me I would go off to school I would leave at 2 10 and I would catch the 2 20 train from

Paoli which is like out by there and I would go from Paoli to 30th street Station. I'd take a, sorry, three trains. I'd go from 30th Street Station to Trenton on SEPTA. And then I'd take New Jersey Transit from Trenton to Penn Station. It was like three hours of train. And I'd get there at like 5.30, take a 6 p.m class till like 8 39 then i take the train back and i get home around 11 it was twice a week on my own this is when i was like i i'm offensive like this is my job like people thought i was crazy literally people thought i was mad my mom was like, okay, you're insane.

I was like, yeah, just let me be. I want to do this. And then I was like, I can't do this anymore. I can't go to school. Thank God I got kicked out. And then from there, I am about 15. I go to a boarding school in Long Island. And I was like, all right, mom, love you. Bye. And I was like all right mom love you bye and I was like this is it and I would go

every day from three to eight and I would dedicate my life to the sport at 16 on my own um I come back late it was like it was weird I had to wait for like someone pick me up from the school or take a taxi on my own it was like some very lonely time because i was on my own i didn't have any like friends at the time well i had a lot of friends but like not really friends who understood what i was doing and you had to be in bed by 10 but they let me stay up till 11 to finish my work so you miss on a lot Didn't go to any dances. I went to one prom just because all I wanted was to be the best at the sport. Yeah. When did you start to realize?

I mean, obviously, you know, when you're traveling on a train back and forth for hours and hours a day, twice a week from Philly to New York just to do this thing, something clicks in your brain that says, okay, this is bigger. You know, like this isn't just something I do for fun. Like this is, this is a part of who I am. And then you end up in this boarding school in Long Island. Did you have a sense for where you wanted this to lead you? Like, was there even a path that like people that, that was clear to you?

Yes. I wanted to go to the Olympics. I remember seeing some guys at my club that coincidentally enough, one of them is my coach now, that I wanted to go to the Olympics. I remember seeing some guys at my club that, coincidentally enough, one of them is my coach now, that I wanted to go to the Olympics. That was it. I wanted to... Actually, I'll never forget this,

because in school, they'd write you, like, what do you want to do? It was to become world champion and Olympic champion, because nobody in the history of my sport has ever done either. I mean, for an American at the time or somebody from London or British person. It was always Italians or Russians or French or Chinese.

So that's when I was like, okay, I want to be the best it's ever been. And then that's when I was like, nothing's going to stop me until I get there. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.

Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him.

We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. When you start competing, tell me about the culture. Because I think, you know, you talk about basketball, football, baseball, soccer, like all the sort of like mainstream sports with big professions around it and crowds and stuff like that. I think everyone has a sense for what the culture is around the sport.

Fencing is a whole different world. I feel like it's almost invisible to almost everybody except for the people who fence. We've heard this thing exists. We know that certain people at Ivy League universities do it, certain elite clubs. But people just don't have any sense tell me a little bit just really about the culture of the sport so the culture of the sport is still very elitist predominantly white right still has that of just you do it in college and you know it's very stuffy and there's not many people that are black or mixed race or whatever

you want to call it you know that look like me so it's very a judgmental culture it's it's very like you'd have a lot of money to kind of get into the sport i'm lucky that i found ellen grayson who helped me out but it's the stigma is very you know let's go to a fencing match, let's drink some champagne, let's wear a suit and watch them fence. That's kind of what it is, what it still is. So my goal when I was seeing these competitions was this has to change. There needs to be more diversity. There needs to be more energy. There needs to be why a competition is not broadcast on TV.

Like, this is crazy. So I was like, you know, we need to change this. And that's what I kind of set out my mission to be was this has to change. Because it's such an unaccessible sport, really. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like for you, there was a love of the sport itself, but you sort of like widened your lens too and said, there's a bigger issue here. It's really exclusionary.

And also just not getting a lot of attention and like you said you know earlier in our conversation this is sword fighting it's actually pretty cool exactly like why would this be why would this be like kept in this tiny little you know like pocket over here and only certain people can do it and only certain people watch it so your mission was bigger way bigger yeah and i was like you know what when i'm done with the sport it will never be the same and it won't be if people could see the smile that just went across your face i mean it wasn't we have a long ways to go but we're on the right track you know but it takes someone to kind of break those barriers down that might not be easy but but I'm grateful for, like, the support of all my sponsors who saw me and the vision

and people that have kind of helped open doors for me. So I don't forget anybody along the journey. But we still have a long ways to go still. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned that sport is predominantly white, and it sounds like still is, sort of like white men. You coming into it in the early days when you start to actually enter competition did you sense any either quiet or overt racism or

anything that where you like felt uncomfortable simply because of who you were yeah i mean i'm also just different like i don't care about i mean i obviously see it all the time it's i don't care about it. I mean, I obviously see it all the time. I don't know why it affected me. But the weird thing is, it's the referees who don't want you to win or be on the podium, right? And it's like, if you make it so clear, they can't do anything. And I would see it all the time.

I would never forget the time. I hope this guy listens to this podcast. Let him remember his name. I was 15 and I was number one in the country, right? And I had to make a top eight in the Junior Olympics to qualify for the World Championships. It's easy. I get ninth in the juniors because this got this man gave me nine red cards nine red cards that's nine points against me it goes to 15 points and when i tell you when i felt

so helpless i'm a 15 year old kid and i was like why is this happening and then my coach was like it's because you're black and i was like what do you mean he was like yeah there's never been someone on your team like that i was like what who cares and then i was like oh wow and i was so angry like this is one time i was really angry i never forget this cleveland ohio oh and i had food poisoning that day. And then the next day was the under 17, which was the team I was trying to make. And when I tell you I won and I killed everyone, but I missed the team by two points. I sat in the drug testing room because it was the first time I got drug tested.

And I was like, so happy. I thought I qualified, right? And then the point system, whatever, I didn't qualify, and I was like I will never have this taste in my mouth again. And since that day, I've made 15 straight teams. And that's when the first time I was like, okay, I'm going to make sure this never happens to another kid like me because maybe another kid might not be strong enough to come back.

And that was one of many where it really stuck in in my mind i see this guy still to this day i still see him in competitions and i don't even let him come near me he can't even come near me anymore so to my coach with people around me just because i don't even want to give you access uh yeah that guy really that guy really pissed me off right yeah i mean it's interesting as you were talking i was thinking about olympic gymnasts actually and how you know in theory you know everything is just you know you tally up the points and whoever gets the most points wins but really it's so subjective underneath that because you can either reward or not award points and then there was when i was a kid i was a gymnast and i competed aggressively until i was about 20 so subjective underneath that because you can either reward or not award points. And then there

was, when I was a kid, I was a gymnast and I competed aggressively until I was about 20. And I remember they would reward what they called virtuosity points. And this was where subjectively they could either give you points or punish you because it just didn't like who you were or your style or the things you do. And you saw some gymnasts actually in the last decade at the Olympic level getting punished because they were different from the mold. They were different from the culture and the expectation. It's funny because I didn't realize

until you just shared it that that exists in fencing too because I kind of figured everyone gets points. It's based purely on a number system. The touches happen. Everyone knows it because the foils are wired to trigger it. But I had no idea that people could subjectively really interfere with that whole process. So our sport, I would say besides gymnastics, which is the most subjective and insane thing I've ever seen because I watch the Olympics and Simone's always a good friend of

mine, always girls. Well, our sport is referee. So if someone doesn't like you, he can literally just say, huh, I'm the referee. And you know, like he might get banned the next tournament, but he can literally do what he wants.

You know, we have some great referees as well. Amazing ones. There's some who, you know, might not like your style, might not like who you are or how big you're getting.

You know, some people just don't like that. So, yeah, and it's hard to get a one light action, right? My coach is like hard to get a one light action right my coach is like make it a one light i'm like i wish i could every time it's not that easy but there's a lot of subjectiveness in my sport which is kind of what i'm trying to eliminate somehow so i'm working

with my sponsors to kind of figure out how we make it way more clean cut because it's not fair yeah but i mean when you think about um where you've been sort of like what you've built also i'm curious for you what your what your experience is of the actual process so like if you think about stepping into a match and i make maybe i may get the language wrong so correct me if i'm wrong uh There's sort of like this one boundary area called the piece where you kind of move back and forth with your opponent on it. Tell me about the feeling that you get. I'm so curious about what happens to not just you, but people when they sort of almost like, quote, step into the ring at a really high level of competition i'm curious whether you have any you know rituals that sort of like you embrace as you're getting ready and then step into it and whether you you

sense that there's any sort of like almost emotional psychological shift that happens yeah so i used to do this thing where i used to take a bath before every tournament and i remember that what are you doing i just take a bath and put on music and I would just like visualize myself on the podium or just like actions, right? So like, because they're going to happen. And if you know they're going to happen, you're prepared for them, right? So I'd always understood that the mind is everything, right? The mind is everything.

So if you can somehow understand that like things are going to happen but stay the course no matter what because if the referee makes a call and you don't like it you're going to get mad it's going to ruin your whole everything and i'd always put on music i made playlists before i was never a big eater before i fenced i got like someone nervous well i think we light on my feet and like these guys would eat food and stuff and i I'd just eat a lot of coffee, banana, and some bread, some eggs, or something, but very light. And I just visualized. I was just like,

I'm going to visualize my actions in my head, and then I just turned into this person who you couldn't even get into my brain. You could be yelling at me, and I won't even hear you. That's the definition of being in the zone and the hard part is getting into the zone before you start some some days

you're not honest as you are and then as i started to get older i started to realize how important this is this is easy to train fencing is easy to train but this is a whole nother animal so i started to meditate i started to visualize i started to draw i started to paint the picture literally of who i'm going to go up against the night before i manifest myself just destroying you in my room and in a weird town in germany or a weird town in italy just manifesting and then i'm just like maz have fun just go for it like don't think twice and and always go with your first option and that's what i did that's so interesting so it's almost like a it's like a three-part ritual sort of like there's the bad thing to just relax then

there's the mental intense focus like the visualization and the focus and the meditative aspect to it. But then it sounds like when it's actually time for you to step into the experience, you just let it all go and just be like, let me just be fully present in the moment. Fully present, fully free, just have fun. My coach is like, play with purpose. That's what he always tells me and it's just like if you can just play but with purpose that fine line that that sweet spot is just oh it's beautiful it's not easy to get all the time obviously but if you can get into that sweet spot oh my god it's that's what you live for and it's just like i'm just getting started in my sport i think

myself which is scary but i think i'm just i haven't tapped into what i'm going to be able to do yet yeah i mean it's amazing that everything leading up to it is the mindset of a warrior and ferocity and then when you're actually in it it's the mindset of a kid just playing exactly like being a kid because kids are so pure right kids don't know any better they just do what they feel if you can be that kid all the time you're so dangerous because kids have kids have no fear if you can have that aspect of a kid but also the mind of a an adult And I don't. I think you're so dangerous. Yeah. When you step into the match, do you feel like,

I've heard a lot of competitors describe it as almost like they're stepping into another identity or another personality. Does that happen to you? I'm curious. Every time I put the mask on, I'm a superhero. When I put this down, I'm a different person but i can joke with you and have fun with you and when i'm you know in the green room we're just chilling this is what i like to do i like to mess with my opponents all the time i'll just joke with them not oh look at you and then once this came over i'm just honestly it's crazy my coach is like dude are you two people i'm like i don't know but it's like

it's so important to be able to like get into that mindset of just like ah and then when it's game on boom and then when you when you're done forget about it have fun my coach is like have fun walk around and then when an hour before let's get back into the zone yeah i mean the idea of almost having an alter ego i know um i actually have some friends of item that turns you from the Clark Kent to the superhero type of person. For one of them, it's a pair of glasses. It sounds like for you, it's the mask. When the mask lowers down over you, it's sort of like that is the thing that allows you

to step into superhero mode. It is. I just turned into a different person it's like my no no matter what's going on in the world or my life or meeting when i'm on this is what i'm thinking about is you as an opponent to things why why it's so powerful why sports like change lives you know because you can get out whatever you give in so if you want to work like also you'll be rewarded might take time but that's why sports are so hard, but also so beautiful at the same time.

Yeah. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg.

You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,

whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Fencing is also really interesting, because um similar to gymnastics you're both an individual competitor but you're also part of a team yeah and i know that's that's been a big part of your

experience you're like when you are in a match it's just you and the other person like nothing else exists but in the larger context you're still a part of this group of people and both it seems like both play a really important role in who you are and what what you love about it huge deal huge deal and i think they go hand in hand we can't be one without the other so it's very yeah there's so much to learn like every day i learn more and more about just yourself or life or whatever that might be just by practicing you know it's crazy yeah you're competing and you're doing well you know you're really kind of rising up when you're younger you end up at penn state continuing defense through your whole time there and along

the way you start to compete at super high levels. Curious what, you know, you sort of shared in the early days what the perception was of the fencers when you were younger. When you're in college, did that change or was this sort of like an extension of the early perception? It was a little bit the same, but I think because we, A, I won a lot and B, like Penn State, like they were national champions, like way before I came. So like they had the stigma of being a team that wins no matter what. So when I went to Penn State, it was like, you weren't really made fun of that much.

And then I went to the Olympics right when I got there. So that kind of changed a lot for me. I was like, you know, it's incredible, you know, so I was also on a different playing field than everybody else because I was never in the school because I was always traveling for my Olympic team.

So I didn't finish school, obviously, because I signed to Nike. But, like, Penn State, they were amazing. I loved that school. And they were amazing with accommodating me and making sure that, like, I was competing for NCAAs, but also I was competing for my Olympic team on my World Championship team. So I was going to Ohio State one weekend, and I was competing for NCAAs, but also I was competing for my Olympic team on my world championship teams. I was going to Ohio State one weekend and I was going to Italy the next weekend.

So I was literally never in school. So I missed out a lot there too. I missed out a lot on that stuff. And I come back Sundays, I have to go right into training on Monday and to work. So it was, I didn't want to go to college, honestly. I didn't think I needed to, but I wanted to get the experience for at least a year or two. Yeah. Was that weird for

you though? I mean, I can imagine sort of like you're hanging out with your friends in college, you know, and you're a freshman in college. We all know like freshman life in college or sophomore. You're hanging out, you're in Pennsylvania, and then you kind of vanish for three days. You're over in Italy competing, and then you come back, and you're like, oh, 9 a.m. class. That must have been so strange for you. I was honestly living in a different world because nobody could relate to what I was doing.

I'd literally be fencing. I had to win two AA's, and I had to try and win the world championships, and I had all those obligations, and I had to try and win the world championships. And I had all those obligations and I had to still be eligible for school. And I tried to see my friends and all that. I mean, I can't complain, but it was a lot to juggle, for sure. Yeah. So you show up, freshman year, you end up in the Olympics. So you're what, 19 something, somewhere around there, right?

I was 20 at my first Olympics. Yeah. Right. So here's the thing that you've been working towards you've been telling people um you're going to for years now and the first time you go and you show up there like you step off the plane you step into the olympic village what's that like for you for me it was surreal because it was in my hometown it was in london so like my grandma my nan saw me my aunts my uncles my hooligan mates who were like oh you're in the Olympics pub like who have never

changed we work at pubs you know and they were like so it was honestly the most surreal experience for me because it was my hometown so my first tattoo is from London to London with the rings on it underneath it you know because it's like so for me it was extra special and i will never forget opening ceremony i will never forget that experience for the rest of my life it was crazy yeah tell me about the experience also so you're there i mean just getting there in the first place like you said it's london this is like your hometown that alone is really powerful in the opening ceremony when you finally step into your first match when you're like okay so this has been fun this is awesome i love hanging

out with all these like people who are world renowned and it's an amazing community but now it's time to actually do the thing that i have been not only training to do for life but telling people like this is where I want to be. And in the moment where you actually step in and say, okay, this is time, what does that feel like for you? You don't really know. There's no words. It's just surreal, right? Because you walk out there and you see everyone, like 15,000 people screaming for you. It was funny because the announcer was cool actually.

He was like, Britain's own, but not really. Coming out of united states like i had great britain kind of behind me and america but it was amazing and i had a great first match second match and third match though so the second match was when i fenced this egyptian kid who never forget i debuted the new nike i had this vault, which is like highlighter green shoes, highlighter green socks. And I remember changing the way I fenced for some reason. Something switched in me, right? I put too much pressure on myself.

I wasn't having fun. I was tense. And I knew I was like, this is going to be tough. And I beat this kid 15-3 before. And he ended up getting second. His first ever medal. He got silver medal. He almost won the Olympics.

Again. And I was so sad and pissed off. So sad. I was like, all right, team, we got fourth. And I was like, oh, my God, no, with no medal. I was like. And I told myself, I remember sitting outside the balcony with my teammate,

Garrick, and I was like, I'm going to be world champion next year. He was like, okay. I don't know why I said that or how. And it went into that season, like, just so determined. I was just like, it was the most mentally ready I've ever been. And I was the first American to ever become world champion. And I remember sitting on the podium and just like, it was the most mentally ready I've ever been. And I was the first American to ever become world champion. And I remember sitting on the podium and like crying, teased on my coach, hugged my coach.

And I was like, wow. Like first ever American to win. Like first ever African American to win. I was the first ever American to ever win. And I was like, that's when my life changed for me. But I needed to lose in the Olympics, unfortunately, to know what I had to do for the rest of my career, if that makes sense, which is a very painful lesson to learn. But if I didn't learn that lesson, I don't think I'd be where I am to this day with the success.

When I was there, I thought everything was over. I was like, I'm going back to Penn State, a loser. I didn't want any of this gear anymore. That's how hard it was on myself. And they're like, oh, dude, you should be happy to be here. I was like, I don't care about being here. I want to win this thing. So that was like a weird switch for me. Yeah.

I mean, it's interesting that you had that sort of, that momentary shift in mindset that just says, okay, it's almost like snap out of it. You know, yes, this was brutal. You know, it was the exact opposite of what I wanted, but you're not done. Um, cause a lot of people would be done at that point, but there was something in you that said, not only am I not done, but next year, these next 12 months, I'm gonna become the best I can. I went to a different mode of just who I wanted to be. And I knew when I won that, I was like, I'm leaving college.

And I won, and then I got, I was the first fencer Nike ever signed, male fencer, and I was like, okay, wow. Sponsorship happened and then things just took off for me. Yeah. Let's talk about that a little bit because I think it's really, it's interesting, right? So let's talk about the economics of fencing because, you know,

when you look at a lot of sports, especially a lot of athletes that end up wanting to compete in the Olympics, the economics are kind of brutal, especially the ones where they're not sort of prepping for a pro career after in a giant league with potential huge paychecks and huge sponsors. What do the economics of fencing look like for most people? And then how did that change for you? Most kids live with their parents. So most kids work the job in fences for their second career right most of them don't make money like none of them have sponsors unless you're like in europe or asia where it's different your government sport you're

taking care of your you know your celebrities if you're in russia you win a medal you're on billboards in america no there's nobody that i look up to oh he's doing something cool no one i'm fencing right because it's like how do you make money they're like oh let's just go to college and then i'll leave fencing and make money that's what most people think because that's the only real economic benefit is to use fencing to get into college so i was like no i was like not that money matters but i was like hey i want to be like, not that money matters, but I was like, hey, I want to be the first fencer to ever make a million dollars. That was like something I always told myself when I was 16 to my mom.

She looked at me like I was insane. But I was like, no, I'm going to change this. I'm going to be me and I'm just going to change the sport. And then, you know, I think I'm on the way to doing that. But just not only getting sponsors but also putting fencing in the light that's ever been in tv commercials magazines events you know like so i was always the first to do all that stuff and i think that's what brands also see me as like i'm someone who's taking fencing from the mainstream, right? But I'm also showing kids that if you're good enough at something,

you can be great at anything. And this is something I was writing down yesterday in my little notebook over here. I told myself that I never want to be a statistic. I want to be an anomaly. A tattooed black fencer. Like, that sounds like you're seeing a unicorn in the streets. So that was, I think, what was the difference between me and everybody else.

I did see the vision, even though it might be crazy. I saw the vision, and all I needed to do was see it myself. I didn't need anybody else to see it. Not my mom, not my dad, not my sisters, not... I was going to make it happen. Yeah, I mean, when you think about it in a weird way,

the very things that you got punished for as a fencer in the earlier days, especially were the same things that have let you kind of redefine the sport to a certain extent, you know, like who you are, the fact that you're like, yes, you know, like I'm six four and I'm covered with tattoos and I'm going to be a hundred percent me in this sport. Those are the things that, that punished you earlier. Um, because culturally, you know, like you quote didn't fit, you know, so people would be able to express bias or judgment against you by in your scores. And yet the very things, the things that make you unique, individual in this sport, are

the ones that now are allowing you to draw sponsorship, to draw attention, to draw new people to it, to change the conversation. And so it's interesting how you sort of flip the script to a certain extent. Yeah, for sure. And I think my goal is, my foundation is to empower youth through fencing, right? Whether that means you're white, black,

it doesn't matter. I just hate wasted talent. So I want kids to see, if you're good enough, I'm going to find you and I'm going to take you on my wing and make sure that you have none of these barriers that's going to stop you from reaching your goal. So that's what I want to do. I want to inspire

these kids to say, listen, Miles did it. I can do it too. That's all I want is that. Because I never had someone go, oh, he did it. So if I can be these guys, these people that they look up to, then that's the reason why. That's the bigger reason. Bigger than any medal.

By far. Way bigger than any medal is to inspire a kid to see his see him be like oh wow i could do something that's for me the greatest gift i could give someone yeah was that shift in priorities something was there something that happened that made you say you know what there's something that's actually more important to me than winning competition? Or was it sort of just like a gradual evolution over time? It was over time. I think like when I started to reach like this level where like I would go to competitions and people would like surround me or swarm me. Like I got to go to rush and people would start crying.

I was like, why are you crying? You know, I was like, oh, you mean so much to me. And I was like, whoa. That's when i was like oh you mean so much to me and i was like whoa that's when i was like i never knew i had this effect on people right like i never knew so that's when i was like oh wow it's not just you i was like it's you gotta take the sport and you know use broad shoulders and take the sport on your back and let's give this thing a ride that's when i was like oh my god like i really, I have a real impact on the sport, you know? And that, to me, was the shift. Seeing people really, like, see me, like, in this light.

And I was like, whoa. Makes you want to win more. You know, that's a good pressure on you. I love pressure. Yeah, apparently. win more you know that's like that's a good pressure on you a lot of pressure yeah apparently when you think now you know so you've built this career now where you get to do the thing that you love to do you have completely broken the mold and rebuilt it in a way where the economics actually work for you where you have attracted high level international sponsorship and also attention to not just you but to the sport and like shared, you know, a real commitment to turning around and then giving

back and saying, or, or, you know, combination of giving back and paying forward saying, you're like, okay, so I got here, but part of what I'm here to do is affect other people and open doors and show them what's going on. When you think about where you are right now, the opportunity that you have to play, you know, in the lives of so many different kids potentially. Do you ever reflect on the early days, the moment where Ellen Grayson saw something in you that was different and sort of like encouraged you to change and to do something really different? 100%. Without her, I don't know where I'd honestly be. And now I can see, I can use what she gave me, the tools that she gave me to use that onto other kids as well.

And I see myself in some of these kids, you know, I'm like, Oh, look at this kid. He wants to wear crazy hair. He wants to be different. I'm like, do that, you know, embrace who you are. And I think something too, it was like I did a talk with Instagram and I was like, it's a greatbrace who you are. And I think something, too, is like I did a talk with Instagram, and I was like, it's a great thing when people make fun of you. That's the number one form of jealousy. It means you did something right.

So I always tell them, I'm like, the more I hate, the more love that comes in the back end. So don't even worry about that. Feed off of that. I always tell kids, I i'm like take the words c-a-n-t out of your vocabulary work harder than anybody else in the world and never lose sight of why you started the sport no matter what and that's a little peace of mind for miles it feels like a good place for us to come full circle too. So hanging out in this container and good life project,

if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? To be generally content and happy. Because those are hard words to actually feel. You know, to be happy is like, no, I'm not going to get you happy. It's like to be happy is generally happy. Nothing beats that. If you're generally happy, nothing beats that. Thank you.

Pleasure, man. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life?

We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at sparkotype.com. That's S-P-A-R-K-E-T-Y-P-E dot com. Or just click the link in the show notes. And of course, if you haven't already done so, be sure to click on the subscribe button in your listening app so you never miss an episode. And then share, share the love. If there's something that you've heard in this episode that you would love to turn into a conversation, share it with people and have that

conversation. Because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold. See you next time. We'll be right back. The Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X.

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