Good Life Project - Morgan Harper Nichols | The Ultimate Love Letter

Episode Date: March 5, 2020

Morgan Harper Nichols is a writer, artist, and musician. While on the road performing, she cultivated her passion for writing and art, and began to share them online. In 2017, Morgan started inviting people to submit stories, in response, she would create art inspired by them, then send the person the original, while sharing the digital version on Instagram for all to benefit. She has now grown a community of 1.1 million followers and been commissioned to create for publications, murals and collaborations with brands like Anthropologie, Adobe, LiveNation, Coach, and more. Her first full-color book of art and poetry All Along You Were Blooming is now available.You can find Morgan Harper Nichols at: Website | Instagram-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My guest today, Morgan Harper Nichols, is a writer, artist, and musician who spent the first few years of her adult life as a college admission counselor, and then as a full-time touring singer-songwriter and musician. And it was on the road that she really began to cultivate a sense of curiosity and deep interest and passion for the written word beyond music and for art and slowly began to share her art and her words with others online. And then in 2017, something happened. Morgan started a project where she invited people to privately submit their stories to her on her website. And from there, she would choose them and then create art. So words and illustration inspired by what they sent her,

then send them the original art for free. And nearly everything Morgan creates and shares today is from this project. And she always keeps the names and stories private. The public fruit of this project is shared daily on her Instagram community, which is now over a million people globally. And it also ends up often in publications on murals around the world. And from this beautiful act, really of service and generosity and love and sustained creative devotion, Morgan has increasingly been commissioned and collaborated with global brands from Anthropologie to Adobe, Live Nation, Coach, so many others. Her first full-color art and poetry book, All Along You Were Blooming, is now out in the world. It is beautiful and moving, inspiring, and reminding people that they are not alone. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project.

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We're in L.A. right now, which is... I guess you were born here, but in a heartbeat, the family jumped over to the Atlanta area, right? Yes, very true. I lived here for the first part of my life, And somewhere around, I was almost two years old. We ended up in Stone Mountain, Georgia. And my parents, my mom's from there originally. And my parents moved there to start a church. And I was a homeschooled preacher's kid still about in Georgia. Okay. So call me as sort of like a suburban New York kid who's been in New York city for 30 years. What's a tiny suburb, small town, like, or did you have like a feeling of Atlanta in the town that you were in? It's a mid-sized city. So yeah, it feels a little like, it's interesting. Like the, like the city transit

actually stops like right around there from Atlanta. So it's kind of like the last of the, you know, before you start getting into more rural cities. So, yeah, I always felt like I was in kind of I didn't really feel like I was in a small town. You know, it was just like there's always people around. My parents are those kind of people who are just like, come on over, come to the house. Like it was always just like filled with people, filled with lots of different kinds of people. And so yeah, I never felt like I was in like a small town, even though I was homeschooled and like the church was like a really small church.

It always just felt like there was a lot of people, a lot of people around, a lot of people to meet, which for my introvert itself, that was a lot. I'm wondering, like, is that a good thing or a bad thing? That was a lot. And I would often just like retreat to my room and draw and play piano and just kind of stay there. And I'm like, I wonder how I can stay, how long I could stay up here before people realize I've disappeared. Yeah, that was pretty much my childhood. In the early days, wasn't also, I mean, the church was literally in your basement, right?

Yes. Wow. That's amazing you know this. Yes. So it was literally in the foundation of my childhood home. And I just remember from, and I wouldn't have used this language as a kid, but now looking back, I just remember sort of like always sort of wrestling with this, like, I was, I've always been very curious about people and intrigued and wanting to meet people, but at the same time, like being overwhelmed by groups of people.

So it was always this interesting mix because like I, from a young age, I always thought my parents were really cool. Like, I didn't know that, like, I mean, again, like they were like Southern, you know, preachers in this context, but they were different in the sense of like like they were just so like on the grounds and like just very personal and very much so just like like yeah we just want to get to know you as people and i really admired and still do love just sort of their way of being in the world but i was always just kind of scratching my head. Cause I was just like, I'm not like that though. Like, I'm like, I, I get what what's happening here, but why do I feel so drained? Like, why do I feel like when I get ready to speak, I don't know what to say. And then I get back to my journal and all those things I was trying to say now what's coming out. So I didn't

know for a very long time that that was okay. So I think I never asked anyone about it. I just assumed as like a little girl that like, okay, maybe I'm just weird. Maybe I'm, I've got to fix this. But in the meantime, I'll just keep drawing, painting and figuring things out. But yeah, it was a, it was an interesting childhood. I felt like I was constantly going back and forth between those things. Like, okay, this is what the family's doing. This is what we love to in. But to a certain extent, I also, I've seen the phenomenon where if you're a part of, you know, like the family that is in leadership in a community, whether it's faith-based or activity-based or philosophical, whatever it is, so many times the whole family has that same expectation. Like you all play this role and you all quote, should be forward facing and should be doing all these different things, which if you're wired that way is awesome. But if you're not, it can be really kind of. Yeah. And I think about that all the time, even with like, I have a son who is almost eight months old. And even now, like when I'm painting, I'm like, oh, I can't wait to teach him how to do this. But I'm like, but what if he doesn't like it? That's going to be okay.

But should I still teach him? How much should I teach him? You know, it's like, should he just try to stick with it for a year or a month? I'm like, I don't know. So yeah, it's interesting because it's like, I don't know the answer for that. You know, it's just like, yeah, you're in this environment, you're in this setting, you're a part of it. It's just like, yeah, you're in this environment, you're in this setting, you're a part of it. But it's like, where does that kind of stop and where do you start, if that makes sense? And I feel like that's something that I still think about. It does sound like you have come to a place

where maybe when you were younger, you were trying to figure out, okay, so I should be okay in this other mode. And something needs to be fixed. Like something's not right. But it sounds like you have come to this place now where you're like, no, actually, that's just the way I'm are. And I'm okay with that. And there's a lot that's like beautiful and graceful and generative about it, too. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it was through, I feel like it was through like failure that I learned that trying to, trying to like force myself to be more of what, especially when I was like graduated from college of what I thought, like, this is what a grownup looks like. This is what a grownup job looks like. I will do this.

And I'll just do my art thing on the side. And my first job out of college was as an admission counselor where I went to school. And I was just like, this was like a very grown up job. I have a salary and I'm very grateful. I just got married. I met my husband in college. And then the position that I was working in was actually moving to a different part of Georgia, moving to a different part of the state. And I couldn't afford to move with the position. And, and just like that, it was just like, whoa, my grownup job, like that was supposed to be the thing while I figured everything else out. And I ended up on, and that was when I was, I was, I guess I graduated

college at 20. And that was when I was like either just turned 22, somewhere around there, when all that, when I was like, okay, I guess I'm leaving this. So from age 22 to 26 specifically, it was just like feet on the ground, just trying to figure out like what am I supposed to be doing? I feel like it's something creative. I can't seem to escape creativity, but at the same time I don't feel like anything's something creative. I can't seem to escape creativity. But at the same time, I don't feel like anything's taking off.

Was that sense for creativity? It sounds like that's something that was not just sort of like given permission, but really almost like embraced and exalted in your household as a thing at a really young age, which doesn't always happen. Yes. And that's something I'm very grateful for. And my mom, specifically as a kid, my mom encouraged my sister and I to create something new every day. Oh, no kidding. Yeah.

She was just like, create something new every day. And she was even like, it's funny because it wasn't even just, we couldn't get away with just like, okay, take a red crayon and scribble on the paper. She would look at it and say, did you spend time on this? Like, what's the story here? Like, she would make us really think about it. She's pushing you. She's like, don't just take the easy way.

I remember just thinking like, come on, mom. Like, we don't have to do this. But like, I'm so glad that she encouraged that in me. Like, I remember this one time specifically um my sister and i were we love the um powerpuff girls cartoon and we were just going on and on about how oh we feel like there should be more diversity powerpuff girls and we're like why don't they have a black powerpuff girl we're just talking amongst ourselves to each other and my mom i think we were in the car and my mom like leans back she's driving she's like why don't you guys make one

make another powerpuff girl and we were like we can't do that and she's like yes you can and we never got around to it we never made it but i was like she was doing that like all throughout our childhood like you can make it you can do that and it wasn't even about like you can do it and it can do that. And it wasn't even about like, you can do it and it's got to go viral and everyone's going to know about it. It was just like, no, like you have that ability, like you can. So I still thank her for that all the time, because I'm just like, it, the, the whole concept of just like knowing that you have permission to create is something that I think sadly gets taken away from a lot of people at a young age. They don't know that their voice matters and they don't know that it's like, yeah,

if you, your perspective of how that mountain looks is different than, you know, Ansel Adams or someone else, but it matters like, because that's the way you see it. And that's your creativity, whether you're an artist or not. So I'm, I feel like I'm equally passionate about like that message as I am about actually making art because I, I'm like, I, that stuff, like it made a difference when I was in my earlier 20s and I was feeling like a failure. I was like, for some reason, I kept creating though. I kept trying. The seed was planted in the earliest days to say, like, this is actually possible.

No guarantees, right? Like, who knows? No guarantees. But if something doesn't exist that you think should exist, you know, I love that your mom planted that seed as if well why not you like you know like you're just as capable of creating this thing as anybody else like you've got something to say or to offer yes absolutely and that's something that i just i just try to think about like every because i i i still create every day. Like I wake up in the morning and that's just my, my way of starting the day. Like I either start writing or start painting, you know, sometimes I get to do it for 30 minutes. Sometimes it's an hour or two. It just depends on how early

I wake up, how early the baby wakes up. It's all not so much your time. Yeah, exactly. It's like, I remember those days. He's running the show right now. So, you know, we just kind of go along with it. I hear you. So. You also mentioned you brought up journaling, but in the context of a real young age, when does that actually drop into your life? Yes. I started keeping a diary at eight years old. No kidding.

And I still have a lot of those diaries. Wow. And they are so, it was so interesting. I, I wouldn't really write a lot about my feelings or things. I was just logging the day. I was just like, Oh, a stray dog ran in the yard. And then we did math and I had a grilled cheese, but Jamie's grilled cheese had more cheese than mine. It was just very... Typical eight-year-old injustices and observations.

Exactly. And I'm like, why was I documenting this stuff? Like, no one told me to do this. So it's really fascinating to me that I was able to just keep that up. Do you remember what the why was then? I don't. Like, they're still in my garage. I was just looking at them last week I don't. Like, I still, like, they're in my, they're still in my garage. I was just looking at them last week.

No kidding. Like, trying to make sense of it. I'm like, why was I doing this? Like, why did I feel like I could or I should do this? And I still don't know. It was just, I don't know. Like, there's a notebook here. I've got something to say and I'm going to say it.

And yeah, it was very, I don't know. It was just, I think some of it may have been just kind of what I mentioned before, which is like I, in social situations, which there were a lot of them in my childhood, lots of them, I just often felt like I was just a little bit slower paced at getting the words to leave my mouth and communicating. I was like, I want to be in on the joke, but I just feel like I'm a little few seconds behind. So I think maybe for me, it was like, because I will often do this at the end of the day. I think it's like, here's all the things that I wanted to say, but didn't get a chance to. Like some nights I remember I was specifically, we had one of those like one of the old school like encyclopedia collections.

And sometimes I would just like go grab O and I would just open it up and just like write interesting things that I thought about octopus. I'm just like, Oh, that's kind of cool. That might come in handy later. So I'm like, I don't know know maybe it was just i'm like oh i want to talk about all these other little things but there's all this other stuff going on so i'll just talk about it in the diary because i always talk to diary as a person so to your diary i was like you don't know about this yet so yeah it's it's really interesting like i like to look at those childhood things and i'm glad i still have them because I still haven't figured out what was going on back then, but it's interesting.

Yeah, I wonder if at least part of what was going on was not only you saying, okay, this is a place where I can say what I want to say in my time. Like, nobody has to be in the room but at least i get it out but also if every if so much of your life was so sort of outward facing it's like the journal becomes this is a place where it's just mine like i have full control over this one place where i get to express myself in like the mode the way the language words, the timing, everything. It's like, this is just me. Like I own this one domain and nobody can mess with it. Yes. Yeah. I think that's what it is. I think that's what it is. And I think I'm still doing that today. Yeah. Right. Just a little bit differently. It's an evolution. Yeah, I think because now I share a lot of my art on social media. And I think that that was kind of where But at the same time, it was just like, oh, but this is still like a little space that I have to kind of like, and I get to choose what I

share and what I don't share. Cause I, I only share, I would say it used to be about 10%. I was getting up to about 25%. I share about 25% of what I make online. So there's a lot that I just kind of keep and I'm just like, I don't know. I think this is just the art that leads to the other art. So yeah, I think I'm still doing that in some ways. Like, I'm just like, you know, some things are for everyone else, but then there are these other things that aren't. Yeah. And I think that line tends to change over time with us. Right. And especially I think for folks who are, and I'm with you, I'm much more on the introverted side of the spectrum. And that definitely, it sort of becomes a tool for self-preservation. Getting really clear about where your line is for modes of engagement and interaction with other people and whether it's one-to-one, one-to-some, one-to-many and sort of just constantly dynamically adjusting that so that you can do the thing you're here to do and also be okay. Absolutely.

That's so true. And I feel like I'm seeing like, I feel like you just put language to like something that's been in my head because I'm like, I see myself doing that in other areas too. For instance, I'm starting to do like live events with my poetry and art. And that's incredibly intimidating for me. It's just like, people want to come and hear me talk. Why?

It's in a book. You can read it. Like, why would you go out of your way to hear me talk about it? Anyway, I just, so yeah, there's just a lot going on in the head about that. But I started to notice, I was like, even though it takes a lot for me mentally to be able to prepare for these events, I was like, there are some events that don't stress me out as much. So I was like, what is it about those that don't stress me out? And I realized it was events where, one, it's like a workshop. So I was gonna have the opportunity to have some kind of face-to-face one-on-one

with everyone in the room, even if it wasn't for a long period of time. And they were events that were sort of within the community. So it was like something that I shared like to my mailing list, like, hey, God, would you like to come to this? So I was like, these are people who are already kind of here,

even if we haven't engaged online. And then when we all get together and we meet these people, I'm like, oh, these are my people. And I feel comfortable here. I feel, not that in life you're always going to be comfortable, but it's just like, it's nice to have that, to have those moments where it's like, okay, in this noisy world where

I can oftentimes get in my head and convince myself that, oh my goodness, like maybe I shouldn't be sharing or maybe I'm not that much of an artist or maybe this, maybe that, all of these many things. I was like, it's nice to have these spaces. So yeah, when you said that about the line, like that just really got me thinking. I was just like, yeah, there's all of these places where it's like, oh, there is a difference between these kinds of events and those kinds of events. Or there is a difference between sharing on social media and sharing this with my friends. Like there's different feelings, there's different ways that, yeah. So I don't know. Yeah. It's so interesting also that you

mentioned that as you're doing the live things, like the people who show up in the room are, are different. They're your people, which makes total sense because fundamentally, you know, even though what you're putting out is essentially, this is, these are my words, these are my thoughts, this is my voice, and this is my art embedded in that is, is a set of beliefs and tastes and values. And it's almost like when you then decide to take the next step to do something live where you're showing up in a room and inviting anyone who wants to come, the people who come are the people who are going to resonate, not just visually with your art, but with those deeper set of qualities and traits that you're offering out. It's like,

those are the rules of the container. And if you want to step into it with me, awesome. And like, so it almost sort of like tells people, raise your hand if like this is the way you see the world and you want to hang with people who are like this. Yes, that is so, so good. So well said. And I'm so glad I'm finding it now. And then there's also this part of me that's like,

gosh, I needed this like in college and high school because it was just like i just felt like i always felt so different how so just i think so i have one sister okay and she is two years younger than me right and in terms of like technicality like in terms of what we do creatively we're very similar we both play lots of the same instruments we taught ourselves um and we both write um we both have written books and like working on new books and she's we have a lot of similarities but she's definitely more high energy extroverted and she was really interested in YouTube very early on. And with the combination of her high energy, and YouTube and the creativity, those things together, like, it started to make some noise pretty early on. And she was like, getting all these opportunities, like, just like supporting,

she has Tourette syndrome, and she was raising awareness about it and like, interviewing other teens who had like, I was just like, like, I felt like she was just off to the races and meanwhile i'm over here like okay um i've written a few poems in my journal but do i read those on youtube like what do i do and she's your little sister too so you're probably thinking wait like i should be the one who's like out in front exactly so that's what was kind of happening at home you know in addition to my parents being just so they're just so like like every time i see my parents they're like oh we met this amazing couple like tj maxx we talked for an hour that's a real story that just happened two days ago i'm just like how do you find the time and like they're showing pictures on their phone they're like this is the couple we met. They're amazing.

We can't like, what is, so I was just like, what is wrong with me? So at home, I just felt so different amongst these three very outward people who are just like finding their way to connect with others in a way that I couldn't. And then I just felt like with other teenagers, my age, it was either,

it was one extreme or the other. They were like, like okay the art thing that's weird or it was like they were like in bands and they were like out there and they're fully colored myspace pages and i was just like what am i supposed to do there was one place that i felt like they were my people and it was this um forum called the young writer society online forum online forum and i'm i'm actually a distinguished member it's only the gold car yeah it's actually gold they made our usernames gold that was like kind of like my pocket i was like i just wish that these kids i wish we were in a

room together so it was like that was like my group and i've actually like stayed in touch with some people from that forum many years later um and i was just like gosh like i was like i just wish those kids like those people like when we were sharing like our poems, like we would have like monthly themes, like this month we're doing like Lord of the Rings themed poetry. And it was just very interesting space. And I was just like, gosh, I just wish that we were all like together in real life. So, you know, it took a long time, but I feel like I'm finding that now. Yeah. Did you feel the same way in college too? And also I noted that, so you graduated college at 20. So you went to college. Yes. I went to college at 16. Wow. And now because the

homeschooling sort of accelerated things. Well, yes. My mom was, she started me at kindergarten at three. She just wanted to see, she's like, I just want to see if you can learn this stuff. She just kept it up. So we just look up one day, it's like, oh, you're 16 and a senior. I guess it's time to go to college. So I went to a small private liberal arts college called Point University that's in Atlanta. So, and it was, it was like, I feel like it was like the perfect balance of like, okay, I'm going away to school, but I didn't have my driver's license yet. So I was just like,

it was, and this isn't a place where, you know, like we had public transit, but you can't rely on it in the south like you can't in other cities so yeah most students had a car and you know there's like no uber or anything back then so my parents were still pretty close there were times where they had to take me places and but yeah i feel like i started to find a little bit of community in college but it was mostly in the classroom with my professors like i was um i wouldn't say like a teacher's pet in like the traditional sense but i was just very when i when i would hear several different professors talk i was just like there's something about them and about what they're doing with their lives that i like like they're just related to them more yeah

i was just like they're they're sitting here talking about books and it's like, like there were a few particular classes, like literature classes and things like that, where, you know, the 50 minutes would end. And I'm like, I could have stayed here longer.

Like I could have, I enjoy that. I couldn't quite figure out where I fit in that. Like, I was like, I don't know if I'm a professor. Like, I don't know if that's what it is. But I was just like, there's something about whatever they're doing that I'm interested in.

So I ended up switching majors quite a few times and switching. Because you started out with music, right? Yes, I did. I did. Yeah. I was because that was the, I started with music because I felt like it was the most, it right and um teaching myself guitar and writing songs and all of that so i started with um started with music but it was the performance part really really got to me so much pointing back to that same thing right yeah so much of like the credits

that you earn you have like you have to take choir then you have to be in guitar ensemble and i'm like i looked at my schedule i was like every single class has a ends with performance the semester is gonna end with me doing like 20 performances i was like how did this happen this is this is so interesting to me because i'm fascinated by um the idea of you know like so you have people who just love to perform they're like the thing that lights them up more than anything else is being on a stage being in a room whatever it is and it's the ability to illuminate a moment a story whatever it is with other people there and but then you also have have people where the real fun of that experience is actually

the creative generative work that goes on before you do it. And it's almost like you're good just handing it off to somebody else. But there's this expectation in the world that like that one person has to do both. And for somebody who's wired like you, that can be kind of brutal. I just got chills when you said that. Just the expectation. That is real. Just because I feel like for me, when I held that guitar in my hand, this is in an age when American Idol was on the rise and Taylor Swift had just come out. And this image of, girl, with a guitar, you sing, you have a voice.

It's like, obviously, that's the voice. Like, obviously that's the path. Obviously you should be on stage. And yeah, I felt like that was what was expected of me. And I felt like to not do that in that capacity all the time would be irresponsible. And I don't feel that way now, but I definitely felt that way then. And it really, yeah, you know, you're a teenager, like you're trying to figure out what to do. And if grownups say, this is a good idea. Here's some scholarship money. Come, welcome. You can sing, come sing. Then you say, okay, all okay all right i'll do it at least for me that's what i did and yeah i was just overwhelmed by like one the performances that wasn't the

biggest thing like i love the theory classes like i loved being able to just sit and study me loved music appreciation like the classes that oftentimes in my classmates were just like oh my gosh can we just get out of here i was like like, that's where I want it to be, like in the lab. Like I want it to be in the lab. I love that. It was literally the piano lab. And I was like, yeah, that's where I want to be. So I was like, well, that was, that's, that was kind of exhausting. So I looked at my transcript and the classes that I had a 100 in that I was just like the best in, it was the English classes. Anything that anything where the that I'm sorry if I'm not saying this right. But anything where like the metrics of like how your grade was earned, if it had to do with writing a paper, I just.

That was your jam. Yeah, that was it. And I was like, whoa whoa those were the easiest classes i was like i don't even remember like i was like i barely even remember those papers and and i'm getting good grades i'm just like this is amazing so i was like maybe i'll switch to english so i did i switched to english and then another opportunity came at another school for music again. And I went back. And I went back and then I went back and I was like, nope, that wasn't it. Should have listened the first time. Then I ended up at community college for a semester. And

that was a very pivotal moment because I took an American literature class and we had to write a poem for an assignment. And I just wrote one and I handed it in. And the professor, Mr. Milford, he and I feel like I tell him this like every year. I'm like, hey, Mr. Milford, just so you know, this moment was pivotal. Thank you. He said, hey, so you're a writer. Like, you should do that. He was like. Thank you. He said, Hey, so you're a writer. Like you should do that. And he was like, do you know? And then he just started telling me about all the possibilities

for writers. No one had ever really shared that with me about like, it's like, yeah, there's MFA programs. There's people who write for journals. There's people who write essays. I was like, whoa, whoa. There's a whole world here that I never knew about, perhaps loosely in the sense of like, okay, yeah, I see books about these things. But I was like, me? I could do that? And I was like, okay, all right, Mr. Milford, I'm a writer. Thank you very much. Switched back to English, went back to the school where I started. And from there on out, I was just like, I don't know what I'm going to do with this. I don't know if this means that I will have like the lowest salary ever, but I don't care. I was like, I'm going to write.

I'm going to, that's what I'm supposed to do. Yeah. Foreshadowing when you were eight, journaling, turning to that thing, right? Yes. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

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I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him.

We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. You get out of school. You, I mean, you, you gotta take care of yourself. Married pretty soon after that also.

And it's like, okay, so I gotta, at least for now, get a full-time job. That's sort of like gonna sustain me. So you end up in, in admissions,

in the same school you're at, right? Yes. Um, and were you also simultaneously thinking about or doing like an MFA in writing? I, yes. So, so, because Mr. Mil writing? I, yes. So, so because Mr.

Milford encouraged me, I was like, yes, I MFA program. That's what I'm going to do. So I applied and I got into a really great program that I still love to this day, but honestly, my workload with the admissions program, I couldn't do it it so i just did one semester and i'm like till this day i'm like i hope to get back there at some point but it was honestly just the workload like i remember specifically um because as an admission counselor i was doing call i was doing recruiting for the school so i was going to high schools like at the college fairs and setting up at the table and i actually remember i think the ip iPad had just came out or I just gotten the iPad. I remember because there were times where there were more popular schools at the things

and our table was, you know, there's some tumbleweed there. And I would just have my iPad in between when students were coming. I would just have my iPad like on my lap and I'm trying to write poems. And it was just like, I'm like, I don't think this is the best work. I'm not able to give my best self. So I was just like, and at that point, I didn't have like, you know, at least, I mean, I didn't really have like a full ride scholarship or anything with this MFA program. I'm like, okay, I already have a ton of student loan debt. I'm like, if I'm going to be in this program and pay all of this money, I was like, I have to make it like really count. And I'm just not getting, not able to get my best.

So yeah, I finished that semester and I was just like, I'll be back. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like then there's this window where just kind of a lot of stuff starts spinning. So that, like you shared earlier, that job ends up kind of like being pushed into a different campus somewhere else where you're not moving there. Your sister simultaneously is getting traction in the world of music. Yes. You have this background in music. So it sounds like the next sort of like window, there's a short season where you, her, your husband too, kind of on the road doing the music thing. Yes. Yes.

So my sister had been really faithful to the YouTube thing. And she was, till this day, that's still like through the lens of YouTube. She loves film and filming music and all these things. And that led to her doing arena tours and a record deal and all of these things. I want to say she was still in college when it was starting. I want to say maybe a junior when this was starting. So she was still in school doing all of this and she didn't have like a team or anything. So my husband and I were like, well,

because he was actually still in school. So when I was working in admissions, he was still in school. So that job wasn't looking like it was going to last much longer. So we were just like, what if we just went on the road with you? And we'll just do whatever. And we'll set up merch and we'll do this. So yeah, that kind of became, my husband ended up becoming a tour manager. And then in a very short period of time, I ended up on stage myself.

So given the conversation we've had up until now, what's that like for you? Because it's like, you've spent so much of English. I have, I'm an MFA dropout. I worked in admissions for a few minutes, you know, what am I going to do? And I was just like, well, one thing that, okay, so this is what it was. So when my sister signed her record deal, I found out about, I went with her one day in Nashville. I went with her and with the record deal, and I'm probably getting the terminology wrong, but with the record deal, somehow you also get a songwriting publishing deal. And when the record deal part, I was like, oh, cool for you. Like, that's awesome. I'm so proud of you, sis. And then

with the songwriting aspect of it i was like we went into like the offices and there was like writers rooms that was the first time i heard that phrase i was like a writer's room wait this doesn't have to be the same person exactly that's a separate thing for writers and there were people coming in the door some with instruments some with not some were not some were, some were not, some were singers, some were not. But they were going into these rooms to write by themselves, to write with others. And I was like, no, that sounds interesting. I was like, it's music, it's writing, it's poetry, it's all those things. I was like, how do I get one of those? I was like, how can I do that?

And this isn't like official, like officially officially how it works but at least just in that frame in that context we were in at that moment it was like well you know the best route probably for you since you can sing and you can play would be to just be an artist get a record deal and then you'll get that opportunity so i was like oh okay all right i guess i gotta do the performing thing so that honestly was my motivation so it's almost like you were willing to suck up yes yes and the performance side in the name of being able to like hide away and just write absolutely i was like okay i'll i'll do the shows but i get to do that too right i get to go in the writer's rooms and all that so i did i did i got an opportunity to get a record deal and to be in the writer's rooms and all that. So I did. I did. I got an opportunity to get a record deal and to be in the writer's rooms.

But just the nature of the music industry, it just, that didn't last very long. You know, things change. And a lot of times there's just not a lot you can do about it. So I was just like, okay. You know, I kind of maybe naively went into it thinking like, oh, this is just like a salary position and you just go in and you just write songs forever. But with, as is true with a lot of creative fields, it's like, well, maybe everybody's field. It's like in some positions, like you only get so many at-bats, you know, and it's like,

you got to make hits. Like, that it's like, you got to make hits. Like, that's why they, they bring you on to make hits. I mean, they're music business, they're businesses. And I think maybe I was just kind of naively thinking, oh, I've got time to kind of like, you know, try things out here and, and, and make songs with meaning and maybe they'll, you know, rise to the top. And they did not. The songs I wrote did not. And so around the time I was, yeah.

So we, I ended up, I don't remember exactly when I signed this, honestly, all kind of running together. Maybe that was 2014 or so. And then into 2016, that was kind of like that window was closing.

It was like, okay, you know, you're not really putting out the hits and then the fateful moment yes the fateful moment and the 2016 yes that's when yeah or end of 2015 into like oh no you're exactly right yeah it was november 2016. As that music window was kind of closing, we were floating out into the wind. My husband and I randomly moved to Dallas, Texas. And we're just like, why not? Let's just start over. It's like, honestly, it was like, it's cheap to live there. We know a few people. We love Tex-Mex. We'll figure out the rest from there. So he started working in construction and I was just at home. I was just doing like random freelancer things. Like just along the way, I've always like messed around with Photoshop and I was doing random t-shirt designs, poster

designs, like little things here and there and just trying to figure it out. And one night in 2016, that November, it just, I just think the weight of all those, like you said, expectations and feeling like I had, I had let people down. I feel like I let down people who had supported me, especially like my family. And I was just like, okay, I'm an artist. I know how to make things. People tell me, oh, you're talented. You're this and that. And yeah, I keep getting told no.

Doors keep closing. I was like, what am I supposed to do with that and I I'm not much of a crier but I feel like this is kind of a trend that people say who are not a crier like it hits you eventually and it's just a waterfall and that just happened and I just I just broke down I was like I don't know what's next I don't know if I can keep meeting those expectations I don't know like I don't know why but I just feel like an absolute failure maybe there's just maybe that same childhood thing of like I'm too weird I'm too different I'm like maybe that's just it I'm just too weird for everybody. And I wrote a poem about that. And I hadn't written a poem in terms of like how I felt and I must write in that way. So I, even then, but in

terms of like vulnerable, just, I don't know what to say anymore. Like my back's against the wall. This is ground zero. Like I'm just going to pour my soul on paper. I don't know when the last time that happened. And the words just came out and the poem starts with, when you start to feel like things should have been better this year, remember the mountains and valleys that brought you here. And as I started to write this, you know, I would love to say that, like, I just believe that to be true, but I didn't. But at the same time, the word just kept coming out. It's almost like you're writing to convince yourself, to remind yourself. Exactly, exactly. And, you know, I may not have said it that way then it was just like, for some reason, this is coming out of me and I'm just going to write it down.

So I had it, I wrote it down on a piece of paper in my journal. And then I was like, huh, that's a poem. I was like, maybe I could share that or something. So I grabbed my phone, take a picture of it. And I was like, I'm going to share this on Instagram. Like, why not? And I got ready to share it. I went through all the little screens, you know, pick the filter, that, that, that, the caption, everything. And I went to that top right corner and I got ready to press share. And I just like pull my hand back. I was like, no, this is too vulnerable. I was like no this is too vulnerable I was like this is too much I I can't share this but I was like at the same time it was weird I felt like I just had to like release it I had to do something with it I don't know why I felt that way but I just did so

I posted it on Pinterest instead and I was just kind of like uh maybe someone will see it over there maybe not I don't know that's just my way of doing the maybe someone will see it over there. Maybe not. I don't know. That's just my way of doing the brave thing. I put it out there in the world. It's gone. I can forget about it. And I did forget about it for a few months. And then that following January is when I started to receive messages from people who I knew on Instagram.

And they said, hey, there's this reality star that posted your poem. You wrote a poem like on their page. Like, is this you? And I was like, yes, that is my poem. I have absolutely no idea how she found that, but that's mine. And that ended up happening like a few more times. Like there was like an athlete that posted it and like people were tagging me like, this person posted like a poem of yours. I wasn't like putting poetry out there. So people that I knew, like people knew me for trying to do the music thing. And I was like, yeah, I wrote that, but how is this thing getting out there? So I went back and looked at Pinterest and it had been repinned over 100,000 times. And till this day, I don't know how that that happened like i didn't put tags on it i didn't i don't know i guess it was confluence of a lot of different things just all at once yes

so even after that got out i was still just like maybe that was just like a one-time thing you know like i'm like i can't be a poet I'm like I dropped out of my program I didn't get the rest of the the clues as to how to do this I was like I can't do this I don't know so for a few like weeks there I was just kind of like trying to juggle that I was I had this you know this thing happened but I didn't really feel like I had more poems in me I was like in a way I was like and I've never really thought about it this way until now I was like in a way I think that was supposed to be like the last poem I think that was like the poem of like all right that was

it that was a sum of everything like that was my last attempt at trying to be this positive inspirational artist person that everyone is expecting me to be I positive, inspirational artist person that everyone is expecting me to be, I was like, that's it. That's all I got. And so I don't think I had an idea of like where to go from there. However, this poem kept getting shared. And I started to receive people's messages from people that I didn't know. And they were saying things like, look, I don't know who you wrote this for or what it was about, but here's what I'm going through. And this is what this poem means to me. And some of these stories that I was receiving, I mean, I thought I was going through something. I mean, this was the stories just of loss and tragedy far beyond anything that I had dealt with.

And it was in those moments that I felt inspired to write. And I realized I was like, oh, there are other people out there. All along, it was about other people and connecting. All along, it was about connecting. And I was so focused on trying to connect, maybe up a ladder, you know, of like, oh, if I write a hit song, or if I follow these rules, or if I do this, then I'll be able to make a career out of it and I'll be I'll be safe I'll be okay and all along it was like no like it was just about connecting with other people they didn't have to be like people in suits they didn't have to be executives just other people and and I just started to realize I'm like even though you know I spent so much of my life feeling like I couldn't connect. It was through these messages. I was like, oh, I did. I did. I was like, I was writing words I didn't even know, doesn't know me, felt hurt in that. And I was like, I didn't know I could do

that. I didn't know that was possible. And that's when I started to try to write poems again. And I was like, okay, I'm going to share these because this isn't about my story anymore. This is about, this is a service now. Like this is something that I can give a contribution. I can give to the world, to one person. I was like, even if other people think this poem is cliche or not interesting or whatever, it doesn't matter. This is a letter to her. This is for her.

And it was just so, yeah, it took a long time to figure that out. But I'm so grateful for that that's that's kind of got me what got me where i am now and honestly what keeps keeps me keeps me writing and keeps me creating despite all of that yeah i mean it sounds like you you also you something happened where you realize that i can do the part that I love to do and what I create can speak to thousands and now millions of people, but I don't have to actually step onto a stage and be live in a room with sort of like mass numbers of people in performative mode in

order for that to happen. Like you figured out that there's another way to make, to get the full suite of what makes you come alive happen without you having to go and sort of like suffer in that one particular mode. Yes. And when this episode comes out, I'm going to have to go back and read it, listen to what you said. And I'm going to write that out and put that on my wall because the way you just said it, I'm like, yes, that is what happened. That is what happened because it's so, when you're in it, it never, it doesn't always feel like you're, you know, like on a journey. You're just like, I'm stuck here in this, whatever this is, like, I can't get out of my head. I can't get out of my head i can't get out of it and at

some point it's like other people other other things like they come in and and remind you like no you are alive like you are like i do see you and in a weird way other people sharing their stories with me reminded me that i was seen it was it was like, they didn't know my story. They didn't know why I wrote that. There's still details to this day about everything that happened that I still haven't figured out how to talk about yet. So it wasn't even, it's not about like, oh, you have to share every aspect of it and then someone's going to get it.

No, it's just those little flickers like those little things that just like it's like no i i'd love to do this like i love this work and i just found that i was like just to be able to see other people appreciate the love that the work that i love creating the most like that was special and i guess that was maybe like the first time that I, that I felt like that really happened for me in a really significant way. So that honestly gave me so much confidence. I mean, I still have self doubt a lot as I create. And as long as you have a heartbeat.

Yeah, exactly. All of us are like, yeah. And it's just like, but but like i'll give you an example like so you know i'll get comments time to time like people are like oh these poems are so cliche they all sound the same and there's been a few where someone has said something you know whatever for whatever reason they didn't like it and i look at that poem and i'm just like, oh, but it wasn't for you. I was like, this is literally for someone else. Like I have like a, we were doing like a, um, like a journal that's coming out a little later and there's one of the pieces in it. And I look at it and I, I'm like, oh,

this was for a 10th grader. I remember her. I know who she is. So I'm like, even if no one else likes it, I was like, it was for her. And in a way, like, I'm just kind of CCing everyone else on what was for her. So, yeah, it's almost hard for me not to create this way now. Yeah. And we should probably put a little bit more because you kind of offered what it was, but effectively what, you know, you hit a point where you're creating for yourself and people are responding, but then you made a really intentional shift in the way that

you were deciding to create and for whom and sort of like the sequence of events. And I think that is so powerful. So, and you kind of hinted at it, but let's make it explicit. For sure. So after that experience with that poem, kind of, you know, going viral on Pinterest and people finding it, and I started receiving these stories

and I'm just like, okay, whatever is happening when people, when I'm reading these responses, I was like, this is where I'm getting inspired. I was like, I'm getting inspired by this. I was like, this is what's keeping me going despite all of this, you know, that I feel like I can't do it. I was like, they make me want to keep writing. And so for it took, it took several months to put it together. But I think I was just working out different things in my brain. Like maybe, maybe there's a way I can just like make this my rhythm like maybe this is just like my flow how I do it how I make art like I just make it for other people I make it for people's stories like it's for people's stories one at a time

that's what it is one at a time for everyone that wants me to write for their story one at a time I'll do it so that was in October of that year so January was when that start was when that poem started getting out there and people started sharing it. And it wasn't until that October that I finally, I was just standing, I was actually, by this point we had moved back to California, but I was standing in my childhood home in Georgia and my parents are still there. And I was just looking out the window and I was like, I know what I'll do. And interestingly enough, I never thought of this until now. I was standing in the same room where I had actually started getting on that forum, Young Writer Society. Like that was the room.

That's the room where the magic happens, I suppose. Some serious juju in that room. Yeah. So I was standing there, like literally right next to where that desk was. And I was like, I know I'm just going to post on my Instagram, Hey, send me your story and, and I'll write something for your story and I'll send it to you. And then I'll share it with everyone else, but I won't tell everyone their story because that's not the part that matters. That's, that's private. Like they don't have to share their story. We're just going to share the fruit and the honoring of their story through a poem. Yeah, that's what it is. So it

just all kind of like came together in that moment. And I just posted like, it wasn't like a pretty graphic or anything. Till this day, I've never thought of a name for the project. Like I don't know what it's called. And I was just, and I, everything I just said, I just posted that and like a long little thread on my Instagram story. I just said a long little thread, but yeah, it was just like, it was just like a little paragraph on my Instagram story. And I was like, you know, maybe a few people will respond, you know, at that time I had, I don't know, I can't remember how many followers followers I had maybe between 10 and 20,000 or so just from you know doing music and everything and traveling but it wasn't really like a really engaged interactive audience like it was just kind of like okay there are people here um so I was like I don't know maybe a few people will see this and a few people

responded and I was like oh so I sat down at the table right there and I had my iPad and at the time like I'd been curious about doing some like digital artwork but I didn't really know a ton about it so I had this iPad and I mean it was very basic it was just like like green or gray background and writing text like I't, I didn't know anything about lettering or any of that stuff. And I was just like, okay, this person, there's her story. It makes me think of her journeying up a mountain. I'll just write about that. So I did, I think that, that, that day I did three, I did three. It was like three stories I got. And I think it was, I want to say it was like the first three that I got. And it was just like, okay, yeah, I just wrote for those three. I was like, this feels awesome.

Like, I enjoy this. So I just left the iPad alone. I left Instagram alone for the day. Woke up the next day and had like hundreds of messages from people that didn't even follow me. And they were like, hey, my friend posted that you're like writing for people's stories. That's so cool. Like, can I tell you my story? And I was like, hey, my friend posted that you're like writing for people's stories. That's so cool. Like, can I tell you my story? And I was like, sure.

Yes. And I was so excited. And I was like, I can't remember the last time I was this excited to just make things. Like, gosh, like it just took me back to my childhood. Like, I was like, this is what I'm excited about. I want to do this. I want to do more of this. So yeah, it got to a point where I didn't have the time to write for everyone's stories.

And I was like, I can't possibly choose. I was like, so I just randomly select. I just started to randomly select. So this was day two where that was happening because they were just rolling in. And interestingly enough, I actually had a show that night. I had a show because I was still doing like a few and I still do like, I mean, a few shows here and there. And all I could think about was just like, gosh, I got to get back to that.

Like, I can't wait to go back to the hotel. Like, I got to do this. This is what I want to do. Yeah. So that became like every day I was like,. I got to do this. This is what I want to do. Yeah, so that became like every day I was like, maybe I'll just do this for the whole week. And then it was like, I'll just do it for the rest of the month.

Oh, I'll just do it for the rest of the year. And here we are, like in 2020. And I'm still doing it every single week. And that has just become the thread that holds my whole creative process together. And I think a lot of it just goes back to not feeling like I could connect and then just having all these moments where I just felt like I was just out in the wilderness and I was completely disconnected from all these things I love to do because I wasn't able to manage how to figure out how to be successful at it based on all these other standards or things. And then to have these beautiful, incredible souls from all over the world, people who

I don't know, some of them I may never meet, and for them to take the time to tell me their story, like I couldn't have planned it. And I'm just, yeah. So that's, that's what I do. So that's what I do. I, I write poetry and I make art. People still send me emails and Instagram messages. And for a period there, I was actually doing it every day. But after having my son, you know, I just don't have the time. Yeah. Things change. I don't have the time. So at least once a week, I make it a point to sit down and just take in stories and in just real time. A lot of times what happens is I'll just read their story and whatever word comes to mind,

like sometimes it's trust. Sometimes it's, I think they're looking for freedom healing sometimes it's river sunrise horizon and i just kind of work from that word and sometimes like the person responds with like a long message like this was my word of the year and sometimes it's literally like okay thanks um and do it for that right and sometimes it's no response at all but it's like i was like but it doesn't it doesn't matter i'm like why do i still feel like i still feel good i still so i feel like that's how i felt yeah i feel like that's how I felt. Yeah, I feel like it's my thing. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here.

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Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Do you ever reflect on, in a kind of a quirky, different way, it almost, from the outside looking in, so I'm curious whether it ever feels like this from the inside looking out like you have recreated what your dad did and what your mom did by sort of like buying into a set of values and beliefs being in service of others being like but always still exalting that, that heartbeat of creativity and generative and the maker side, and then building community around it. But it's almost like you looked at that and you've kind of recreated that, but entirely on

your terms and in a way that honors sort of like the uniqueness of who you are and what you need and don't need from it yes yes i i still tell my parents fairly often that because i mean we joke about it you know like oh yeah morgan used to go hide around her hide in her room and she would disappear it's like is she still alive so we we joke about it but i always tell them i'm like it was your example that that led me let me back to this place and it and i was like i know none of us could have predicted how all that was going to happen but when i see it i'm like yeah i'm i'm a different version of them but it was it was watching them in real time that taught me because, you know, my parents, I mean, they didn't have a lot of money. They didn't have

a lot of, you know, like notable connections or things. Like even with like how we got into music, like I was so interested, like when I got to Nashville and how many people were like, oh yeah, my dad's in the industry. And I'm like, whoa, like that's, that seems convenient. I mean, obviously I know people, so we're hard to get where they are. But I was just like, I was like, man, we didn't have any, anything. We didn't know a single person who could connect us to any of this. So it was just very, yeah, it was, what did I say? Oh yeah.

So yeah, I would, I think I was just getting out of like, it was very like, they were, they were just doing it with what, just being present and to their community with what they had. And it wasn't very much, but because of that, it just showed me a special kind of creativity that I will hold forever. Like my mom had, we had a baby grand piano in the house that didn't work. My mom got it for like 75 bucks and she painted it bright red. And I remember sometimes like people come over and say like, why is your piano red? My mom's like, because I like red. And like, does it work? Nope, it doesn't. And it was just like, huh, like, why is your piano red? My mom's like, because I like red. And I'm like, does it work? Nope, it doesn't.

And it was just like, huh. Like, there was just all these quirky little things that happened and interesting things that this sounds weird, if it even makes sense, but it was like, yeah, it was almost still kind of like I embodied that message and I embodied the creativity, even though it took years to find language for it. It took years to see how all that connects. And I'm like, yeah, I turn 30 next week and I'm just like, yeah, I'm still going to see more connections, you know, things that I, that, yeah. So I'm grateful now that like, I'm seeing enough connections now of like, okay, yeah. All of that that I went through, all of that in my childhood, I'm like, that informs where I am today. And I'm grateful that I can at least see least see some fruit of that. differently and if you want to paint the baby grand red you paint it red just because you want to and that's okay yeah and that's like and that's not just okay but like yeah like that's what we do yeah so to see that model though so i mean it definitely seems like it's woven its way through

as as we're hanging out here recording this in studio you have a a new book out so so what started as this you know a moment which was kind of like coming back from your knees and like, there's something that I have to get out and just put it out, turns into something that becomes this massive outlet for your creativity, for your expression, a giant global community with over well over a million people following your work these days. And now a book, which is kind of like another full circle mode to a certain extent. I mean, I know you put out a, you'd self-published something a little earlier, but this feels different. Yes, absolutely.

It feels very different. As I started to share these poems online you know i i had thoughts like oh i wonder if i could like get a literary agent and like write a book like that would be cool um but i had no idea how to go about that and then also i mean i have like such a deep love for poets and poetry. And I just felt like I wasn't in the class. Like, I mean, I was just, yeah, I, I, I try to have like high standards for myself. I'm like, that's what I want to get to, but I'm so far away. So maybe I should just leave it alone and write poetry on Instagram.

And so I, I was kind of like very loosely, like, it would be nice to write a book. It would be really nice. But I don't know how to go about it. But at the same time, I was like, what if I self-published like a full colored heartback book? That, as it turns out, was incredibly hard to do. And I was like, well, that's not an option. I was like, maybe I do need to get like a publisher or something. And I was just like, another wall. Like, I don't know what to do with that. And around the time I was kind of like wrestling with that, a publisher reached out and was like, we would like to do a book with you, a full color hardback book. And I was like, that's exactly what I want to do. So yeah, so that process began and it's all new pieces, which was challenging for me in a lot of ways because I felt very and still feel very attached to my process, which is people send me their stories and I write for them and I send it to them first. And then I share it with everyone else

so the poems that are in this book the only way that I was able to write it and this is the best way I can explain it I hope it makes sense of like these are kept pieces they're pieces that when I because when I'm writing back to people, I try not to overwhelm them. Cause sometimes I just like really get in a flow and I'm just like, oh, I can go in this direction. And I'm just like, I have to remember that sometimes people are just like reading this, like they open the email, like when they're in line at the grocery store, I'm like, let me not like overwhelm them. And so there are times where I would just like say, okay, I want to say more, but let me just leave it, you know, these 14 lines. Let me just leave that.

And then I'll just write more for myself, you know, later. So this book is that second half of that poem over and over. It's the poems that I was just like, I don't know if Instagram's the place. Like, I don't know if I'm going to email this to them. This feels like it needs to be written. This feels like it needs to be, like, touched on a page in some way. So that was the only way I knew to write it. And now when I look at it, it's a very special collection.

Because I was also, while I was was doing that that was when i was also pregnant with my son and i was having to to learn the lesson of hey like your energy level is going to change and i i realized that even though i love my work I do have the tendency to overwork quite a bit. And I realized like when I was pregnant, I was just like, oh, like, yeah, I guess I can't just sit here all day and just like, oh, I'm tired. Let's go get some coffee. It's like, no, you need to rest. You need to learn how to rest. So yeah, there were a lot of life lessons that were happening for me while i was writing this book so yeah it's very special so it's it's a lot of part twos a lot of like if you've ever seen anything of mine and or if you ever read anything of mine like on the internet like i would say the book is like here's

what comes after that you know here's sort of the expanded version. Yeah, no, I love it. And it's beautiful. Thank you. And if people haven't sort of gotten from the conversation already, you know, like poems expanded into your also visual art. And they kind of came together. Yes. And you developed a very distinct style and color palette and approach to, which really just, so the overall experience is just really moving. I have, I actually, would you read something? Oh, sure.

Awesome. Absolutely. If you wanted to pick something different also, but. Oh, I would love to see. This one actually from your book just kind of really stuck out to me. Yes. And again, if you want to choose something different, don't leave it alone. No, this is one of my favorites.

I'm so grateful you chose this one. If you ever start to feel weary of the mundane and completely restless in all that has not changed, and rather numb to the mention of grace, let today be the day you make the mindful decision to find joy in the ordinary places. The white light between the bedroom blinds, the taste of rich dark coffee grinds. For even though the extraordinary calls you and you feel its river running wild through your bones and your heart is craving meaning and purpose on the other side of your unknowns, there are still these flickers of light and familiar tastes

that are calling your heart to know even when you are still, there are so many ways to find your way to gratitude. And the art is a line drawing of sort of like a window, a desk by window. And there's like a mountainscape beyond the window. That's just sort of like, for me, that was just a way of showing that there's always something beyond, but it begins right here. So like, there's always something, there's something more to this moment. And I think a lot of times we think of like, I want more, I want more. It's like, well, I got to get on a plane. I got to go somewhere. And that's absolutely true. I love to travel, but it's like, there's also more happening right here. And in the stillness, we can begin to see that. Yeah, I love that.

Thank you for reading that. And also sort of like sharing what was behind the images behind it. It's really beautiful. So it's fun. As we sit here, this book is out. You're kind of bopping around, being much more forward-facing. Because that's part of what happens when a book comes out it's like hey conversations stages all this stuff it's a whole different world and like you said also

new mom um when you think about sort of like it feels like you're you're stepping into a new season in in in your personal life in your creative life, and doors are opening, do you, and what you just read was really beautiful and it focused on the grace and the little things in the moment that so often we blow past because we're so focused on the big things. When you sit here,

sort of like in this moment of your life, is it your practice more to try and just be in this space with it? Because you also strike me as being somebody who's very forward focused. Are you kind of looking at what's happening now and being like, well, we check these boxes and then we take these steps and this is what it can lead to this and this and this and this is what I'm going to build. I'm curious just how you're processing this particular moment. Yes. It's interesting because I feel like I am mostly in this moment, but in a very mental way, if that makes sense. That's sort of like my default. Like, I am very intrigued about like, what's happening in this moment. But in the sense of like, like, I noticed like, where the actual light pours in the room. Like, I do that all the time. Like,

since I've been sitting here, I've been amazed at how the how the windows of that building distort the reflection, distort the, there's a distorted reflection. And I'm really intrigued by it. Cause I was just like, if you were to paint that, I was like, how would you even do that? And I was like, or maybe you could just do paint the color and get the same effect. So that's sort of where I go. I'm not really thinking ahead, but I'm thinking in the head, if that makes sense. And one thing that I'm learning to do now is just something my therapist is helping me with is, well, where do you feel it? Like in your body? Like, what do you

feel in this moment? And that's something that's new for me. For instance, like I was doing, I was doing like a, I was doing like a, like a mindfulness meditation and the, and like the person doing that, doing it was, said something about like, it's like, notice where your feet are and how they support you. And I was like, oh, I don't even think about my feet. I was like, I don't, I don't think about my feet or my hands or, or what I'm feeling. So, so yeah, it's, it's like, I'm here, but then I'm also like up here and I'm trying to learn how to like be all here. Yeah. It's a very vague way of saying that.

Yeah. No, it actually, it really resonates. I think it's about, I think so, it probably resonates with so many people similar to the reason so much of you write resonates because I think there's such a common experience for us to kind of live from the neck up. Because it's kind of the way we're wired. It's kind of the way that society rewards us.

But the best stuff, like the richest stuff in life happens from the neck down. And then when you can bring it together, when you can just like sort of find a way to integrate all of it. I think, I don't know if that honestly, that is a sustainable state. I think we move in and out of it. But when you're in it, it's like, you know it. Yes. And you just kind of want to linger there for as long as possible.

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. I just started, so I make artwork and most of my artwork is digital. I use my iPad Pro. And lately I've actually have been experimenting with real paint. Going back analog. Yes, yes. And I've just been so amazed because I had like a very like interesting moment.

It was actually yesterday morning. So I wake up at 3 a.mam every morning to start painting till whatever, the baby wakes up. And so I was painting and I was like, oh my goodness. I was like, I can do this, I can do this, I can do this. And I was just like, oh, that's interesting. I was like, if I had tried to do that on my iPad, it would have taken, you know, maybe an hour. I got there in in two minutes like doing analog and I was just like I'm kind of like that in my head I was like I try to talk myself into peace into safety and I was just like I would just like open the window and just like stare at a tree for a minute I might get to the point of like I'm gonna be all be all right. I'm all right right now. So

yeah, it's teaching me a lot. I know, I feel like I'm going to have a lot to say about that in the, in the days to come. Yeah. Well, I look forward to that. So sitting here in this container of the good life project, um, if I offer up this phrase to live a good life, what comes up the first word that comes up for me is a full life like just fully emerged head heart body soul and like you said it's hard to fully do that all the time like we can't just like be in that state all the time but i think think it's realizing like, wow, all of this together. It's good. I'm good. There are good things happening here.

So, yeah, that's what that means to me today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to

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