Good Life Project - Mr. Chazz Lewis | How to Be a Teacher, Parent or Leader Who Changes Lives

Episode Date: March 28, 2022

Chazz Lewis’s mission in life is to enjoy the process of becoming the best version of himself and help others do the same. He goes by “Mr.Chazz” to his massive online following, and to his many students and fellow teachers, leaders, and human beings. Having stepped into the classroom in the early days, largely because he needed a job, he discovered a passion for inspiring and understanding and igniting curiosity and possibility in kids. And, he realized, he’d have to buck a lot of systems and do a metric ton of his own learning and reimagining to make it happen.Along the way, he completed a master's degree in executive leadership at American University and spent years using his own classrooms as living laboratories, developing a more conscious, informed, joyful and dignity-driven and inspired approach to learning, leading, and elevating others. His philosophy began to find relevance far beyond the classroom and has found a home everywhere from parenting to education, personal development, and organizational leadership. And he shares his ideas in a fun, playful, and accessible way, training thousands of teachers, and with his giant following on Tiktok and Instagram. He is in the process of writing a book, and he goes deeper on his podcast, “Mr. Chazz's Leadership, Parenting and Teaching Podcast”.You can find Mr. Chazz at: TicTok | Instagram | PodcastIf you LOVED this episode you’ll also love the conversations we had with Renee Jain about inspiring kids to be authentic and grow.Check out our offerings & partners: My New Book SparkedMy New Podcast SPARKED.Visit Our Sponsor Page For Great Resources & Discount Codes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Because if there's anything that's going to change the behavior of a child, it's by us changing our behavior as an adult, which is hard to do. So give yourself grace and give them grace, right? Everyone deserves grace while they're learning in this journey. It's not easy, but you don't have to be perfect in it. Avoid being a perfectionist, be an improvingist. The goal isn't to be perfect every day. The goal is to improve a little every day. My guest today, Chaz Lewis, his mission in life is to enjoy the process of becoming the best

version of himself and help others do the same. He goes by Mr. Chaz to his massive online following and to his many students and fellow teachers and leaders and human beings. Having stepped into the classroom in the early days, largely because he needed a job, he discovered a passion for inspiring and understanding and igniting curiosity and joy and possibility in kids. And he realized he'd also kind of have to buck the system and maybe a lot of different systems and do a metric ton of his own learning and reimagining to make that outcome happen. And along the way, he completed a master's degree in executive leadership at American University, spent years using his own classrooms as these living laboratories, developing a more conscious, informed, joyful, and dignity-driven and inspired approach to learning and leading

and elevating others from the earliest days. And his philosophy, it began to find relevance far beyond the classroom and has found a home everywhere from parenting to education, personal development, and even organizational leadership. And he shares his ideas in fun and playful and accessible ways, training thousands of teachers with a giant following on TikTok and Instagram. And he's in the process of writing a book and he goes deeper into his ideas on his own podcast, Mr. Chaz's Leadership, Parenting and Teaching Podcast. So excited to share this really wide ranging, fun-opening and truly inspiring conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project.

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Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. I've had so much fun just sort of spending time catching up on your podcast, on the TikTok, on all the different stuff. There's so many ideas and topics I want to dive into with you, but I also want to take a step back in time. I know you spent quite a while teaching now young kids

and now more expansively educators and parents and families. When you were a kid, I know you've described you were not sort of like the student that everybody looked to as the quote model student. You struggled to a certain extent in school. I guess at a certain point we're diagnosed with ADHD. Tell me, I'm curious, because when you make a decision to sort of like in adult life, say, I need to go back into this

environment that I really struggled with as a kid. I'm always curious what that earlier experience was like for you. Oh man, I gotta be honest. Like I wish there was like some like big story I could tell you about me having this revelation that I needed to go back into like the school system and reach back. But that revelation did happen, but not until after I was already working with kids in the school and seeing what I was seeing. It honestly started with me really needing a job and them hiring. And if you know anything about early childhood, you know that turnover is very high. And they had just fired a group of people. And so they had a lot of availability.

And I said, I need a job and I'm young. You know, is there a place for me here? Little did I know what I was walking into. kind of mass firing was an indication of the kind of culture that already was present in the school and in the company before I got there, which ended up teaching me a lot of lessons in the course of being there. I want to dive into that early experience and those lessons. Tell me about you as a kid. Tell me about your experience with school when you're little. Yeah. So my birthday's in very early October. So I just missed the cutoff date to go into public school. And so what my parents did is they put me in a private school so that I wouldn't have to wait another year to go into school.

And they thought that I was ready. And so my whole kind of schooling career, I've always been the youngest one in the class on the younger side of everyone else. And on top of having ADHD and it wasn't always diagnosed, I didn't get diagnosed until I was in seventh, eighth grade. I struggled a lot with the academics and certain teaching styles. And that was just kind of became some part of like, just how I identified myself. Like I'm just a bad student who's particularly bad at math. You know, I would ask a lot of questions, but because of the way that, you know, the system set up and

teaching styles, that wasn't something that was valued much in my schooling career. When I would ask questions, they would very often be shut down very quickly or dismissed or, you know, why are you asking that? And that is how I went through schooling for a majority of my schooling in this private school all the way up to eighth grade. My first year of high school, I actually went to public school. Academically, I didn't struggle. The social landscape was very different than what I was used to. And that took a lot of learning for me. I ended up going back into private high school for the remainder of my sophomore to senior year. And there was a lot of, outside of academics and the social aspect, there was a lot

that I was trying to understand being one of the only Black kids in my class for a majority of my school and career in most of my classes. And just everything that came with it and when people would talk about it, you know, even those kind of like awkward moments in, you know, elementary or like middle school when like, all right, it's time to talk about slavery. And like everyone's like just like kind of staring at me or looking at me or at least that's how it felt at the time. And, you know, that's the only thing that we really learned about Black people in history. And, you know, so all of those things on top of comments that people would make, and not even just like in middle school, but in high school when people are a lot more aware of race and, you know, jokes are being made. And, you know, how much truth is there to this joke that's being repeated? Like, are you, you know, really sharing your real, your real feelings, you know, be being one of like going to private school and being around mostly like Caucasian people. Coat switching was something that I

would got very used to. And so it became one of those things where, you know, I wasn't black enough for the black kids, not, you know, white enough for the white kids, you know, even despite me being fully black, kind of, you know, being described as an Oreo. So those are some things that helped put a lot of things in perspective to me or just like just helped me to kind of start shaping my perspective. And then when I had a choice to go to college, I chose to go to an HBCU, which is a historically Black college and university, where it's a majority, where I'm no longer the minority. And there's a majority of people who look like me. That was really great because I was able to meet people who look like me with a variety of different experiences and really learn things from different experiences and different perspectives. And even just that learning of understanding of, yes, obviously, like Black people as a marginalized group, but also learning about other marginalized groups. If I were to really pinpoint one of the things that inspires my work with children today, even though it had

not really much to do with children, understanding how people treat marginalized groups really helped me better when it came time to start teaching children and start helping children navigate life and grow the next generation of humans. It helped me better empathize with the struggles that they may be experiencing and better get into their perspective. And that is really probably one of the most valuable things for me as someone who didn't, when I first going in working with children, didn't understand child development or didn't understand all the strategies and stuff that I talk about right now. Just the simple practice of trying to get into their experience and their perspective and not just looking at it from the adult teacher perspective

was huge in my development as a teacher, as an educator. Yeah. I mean, that's so interesting the way that you describe, like early on you developed the code switching skill and it kind of becomes a part of you. And then as you're moving through college, you really start to sort of like look at the difference in treatment and experiences and relational experiences and marginalized groups. It's so interesting to me that you then apply that lens to looking at little kids and sort of seeing the similarity between the way that adults or people in a teacher, quote, role of power are relating to little kids versus the way that you were relating to like a largely white

community around you and education. I'm fascinated by that sort of like the way that you sort of like bridge that gap. Yeah. So when I first started working in the classroom with children, first of all, I didn't get a lot of training. It was like a three-day training and they kind of throw you in the room and they say, you know, you have to figure it out. It's kind of a sink or swim kind of deal. And that's just not the case with the company that I, you know, work for. That's the case for a lot of companies in early childhood. And it has to do with a lot of things,

but not getting into that so much, but just getting into me trying to kind of figure it all out. But meanwhile, also observing other teachers and kind of what they're doing, because it's like, OK, you've been doing here. You've been here for 20 years, 15 years, six months. You got a lot of experience on me. And I didn't even conceive how challenging being a teacher could be. And so kind of going into the space, I'm looking at, I'm observing and kind of seeing the way, the approach that a lot of teachers, especially I would say veteran teachers, the older, the ones that have kind of been there for a while, the approach that a lot of them took.

I can remember being on the other side of that. And they're real punitive and like the kind of control-based techniques that teachers really relied on. And when you rely on control and fear-based techniques and it seems like they're not being controlled enough or they're not scared enough, The only thing that you go to is more control and more fear. And, you know, looking at that and seeing that, like, it's pretty jarring. You know, I don't necessarily, at the same time, while I'm, like, looking at the teachers who are, like, yelling and threatening constantly and, like, everything is just about, like, how they can hold something over the child to

get them to do what they want them to do. You know, it's like, you kind of recognize like, that's not right. Like, there's got to be a better way, but you don't know that better way. You know, when it's your first time, you don't know what else to do. You haven't seen what else to do. You haven't experienced what else to do because largely that's how most of our classrooms operate with fear and control. And we can go even deeper into it and talk about like grading and the function of grades. And, but this idea of, it was something that I recognized really early on was a problem, but I didn't have the answer. So I had to go and

search and kind of do a lot of figuring stuff out. Yeah. And I mean, it's especially when, because you know, you described, well, you see a teacher who's there for six years and then you see someone who's there for 20 years. And then if the person who's there for 20 years is still sort of like doing that fear and control modality. I mean, there's got to be something in your mind that says, well, they probably tried everything over 20 years. I guess that's the thing that works and that's the thing that everyone goes to. But then there's that other part of you that's saying, but that can't be it. But then, like you said, then there's this big open question. You know, if these people have been working in this field for so long, and this is where they've landed, what's the alternative? You know, like, how do you step

into this space of being a teacher and creating an experience for the kids that is really genuinely different and have it be an experience where it's not just about how can I create the maximum amount of order to get through the day with the least amount of disruption. Yeah. And it's not even just that there has to be something else. It's that this isn't the person that I want to be. This is not who I want to be. And so, yeah, you're right. Yeah. Like this is, they've, I'm sure that they've tried a bunch of things and this is where they've landed. But I also see that where they've landed, they are pretty miserable. You know, these are not teachers who in the moment or even, or even, even later talking to them about it. Like, it's not something that they're

proud. Like they don't want to yell at the children all day. Like that's exhausting. Right. And you know, they don't feel good about that either, but it's like, this is what we need to do to get through the day. And so my thing was just like, okay, well, I'm going to take little steps like here and there, like little things. And when you first go in the classroom like you're not in control of the classroom either and so you're also largely trying to like keep up and follow and like figure out like a lot of things like what's the routine like how do how do you do things here like and so there's a lot of figuring out especially that first year but for me it was like what little things can I have control over in my little space of control that, you know, can move a little bit more towards kind of, you know, connection and understanding and helping them build skills?

And what are those opportunities? So it might be like for me, like that first year, it was like, all right, well, we're breaking up into groups. All right. This is a time where I have power. I have my little small group. And instead of doing story time the way that they say to do story time and they want me to do story time, I'm going to switch up a little different. Instead of having children, forcing children to sit crisscross applesauce hands in their lap the whole time, I'm going to let them kind of sit a little flex, like flexibly. Like they let them sit where they want and kind of how they want, as long as they're not hurting someone else. You know, instead of having to sit and then listen to me for the entire book, I'm going to get up and we're going to move around and we're going to do the book.

Right. And so it was about finding those little like moments, those little things, like, especially in that first year when I didn't have a lot of control and I was still figuring a lot of things out myself about like, where can I start to practice? And then over time, you know, with being able to find more mentors and being able to go to more trainings. And luckily for me, I had a leader who really believed in me and really saw like my potential really before I did too. I knew when I, that I first working, started working with kids, I knew that I, I enjoyed kids and they were fun to be around. I can connect with them. I think that was like my strength, but I just didn't, I didn't know the conflict

resolution. Like I would go into a moment or situation where two kids are having a conflict and I would try to, you know, help them through it or make it better. And then it would escalate and get worse. And then before they were yelling with words and now they're fighting with hands. I'm like, I'm, I, there's something I'm missing here. Right. And so learning, you know, reading books and podcasts and going to trainings and learning more about like, it's not all about just trying to come at them with logic. Cause that's one of the common mistakes that us adults do when children are having emotion or they're struggling with something. We try to give them like, this is the logical answer.

Why don't you just take my wisdom? I've been here for 30 years and I can tell you that the ball went over the fence, but we're going to get it tomorrow. So it's not a big deal. Get over it. Yeah, they have your toy, but we have that toy, you know, every day, get over it. Like that doesn't help. And it doesn't help children.

It does also doesn't help adults. Right. I'm thinking the same thing. Most adults are going to be like, I don't know about that. Yeah. You're not going to be able to, one, they're going to, the response you're going to get from an adult is they're going to like disconnect to you. They're not going to feel seen or understood.

They're not going to hear anything that you have to do. They might get even more frustrated, double down more on what they, on why it's important. Now they have to convince you why this is so important as opposed to you just first seeing them where they're at and empathizing where they're at and with their struggles and processing it with them. And so like even like learning to talk to that like emotional brain, as opposed to trying to talk to the logical part of the brain where it's offline, Some big game changers that I didn't understand at first, but it just took these kind of like small moments of just, okay, where's my power? And even in those moments where I would like squish things up, there'd be time where like

teachers would come in and be like, hey, now do it this way. And then I have to try to have a conversation. I like, I get curious, like, okay, well, I see we do it this way, but you know, then I'm having to tell them to sit crisscross applesauce for half the book. And it is interrupting the book and the enjoyment of the book. And then, you know, they may throw up their hands like, fine, try your way. And then I'm like, okay, I will. And then I do. And there's been many times where they see me and doing it a way, doing it my way or doing a way that I'm trying. And then they're like, Hmm, you know what, maybe there's something to that. And, and there's been, there's been times where there's been teachers who are first kind of like for the, like for like the reading thing have given me pushback. And then later,

as they've kind of seen and observed me have kind of integrated that into their own book reading style. It's not an easy, straight journey. Just figure out this, just know the information and everything else will come easy. It's a lot of navigating and a lot of bits at a time. Yeah. And it's happening on multiple levels, it sounds like, right? Because on the one hand, you're navigating, how do I actually create the dynamic I want in the classroom with the kids? And then simultaneously, you're navigating this superstructure of the paradigm of education. And maybe that's really broad, but maybe it's just within the school that you're in. What are the power structures? What has everybody always been done? What have people just assumed is the way to do it? And then you have a new person who steps into that and starts questioning everything, which is interesting because it kind of relates back to the way you describe yourself as a kid, where you're just constantly peppering a teacher with questions because your brain

kind of works in a way where you need to actually ask these questions to get where you need to be. And it seems like you may not have been overtly asking those questions of everybody else who was in your school, but in the actions that you were taking, like in your constantly questioning all the quote ways to do things and running experiments, just do them differently. Even if you don't say to these other people, I'm questioning or challenging the way you've done it, you're effectively doing that. Which had to have been really interesting just from sort of like a social dynamic standpoint for you in this entirely new place. Like you're trying to figure out how to get along with the kids and have a great environment. But also, there's that social dynamic. And you described how earlier that had been an issue for you also,

and now you're stepping into this new place just as a human being, trying to navigate and feel good every day when you're showing up somewhere. I have to imagine that was challenging on a bunch of different levels. Oh, man. And I can even, you know, when you said like the macro of a system of education, like I think you're, it's not too broad because it all impacts on more micro and more micro levels, right? And I've seen it as in my career as I've, you know, from an assistant, you know, teacher to a lead teacher. And this is in a Montessori classroom, by the way. And I've seen it also in my role as an educational specialist where my role was to teach teachers to

teach, but I was also, you know, I was a very unique position where I was able to see the kind of macro organization of 70 schools in my, in my, in the company that I worked for. But I was also able to see it kind of at a district level that had like six different districts. Right. So I was able to see it at the corporate level because I was, there were, you know, many times where I was in the room where the decisions were being made that were going to be passed down from the highest up to, you know, down to the, you know, teacher who's working with

the children and they have to implement the thing. I've seen how those conversations have been had and I've seen how they've been implemented. And it all does impact each other in the way that the owner of the business treats the people that they work with, impacts the way that they treat the people that they work with below. So it'd be in the company I worked for, it was the owner, the director of operations who really kind of worked with all the people in the company. And then the director of operations worked with the different district directors. The district directors worked with each director in a school. And then the directors worked with the teachers and the teachers obviously worked

with the children. You can see very clearly how the attitudes and approaches and the way things are going about all the way up at the owner level, how it permeates all the way down to the organization, even all the way down. It doesn't stop at the teacher, from the teacher to the child. And I could even see in a Montessori classroom where we have mixed age groups, I could see how those power dynamics impacted the teacher, which then impacted the children, which then impacted the peer-to-peer power dynamics. Because definitely in a mixed age group, there are power dynamics there. The four-year-olds in the classroom definitely have a little are power dynamics there. The four-year-olds

in the classroom definitely have a little bit more social power than the three-year-olds. And it's clear in the way that that teacher treats power in their classroom will impact the way that the kids do it too. If the teacher is very manipulative and punitive and, you know, do this or else, then the children will very much say, give me that toy or else, right? They will very much take that same approach. But if the teacher is more collaborative and hearing, you know, and using language where they're trying to understand the other person and empathizing with the other person they're in conflict with and, you know, and trying to do problem solving and trying to work together to solve problems. You're going to see children go to that way more often.

Not to say that children still struggle with their impulse control and, you know, their memory and, you know, the skills that we're trying to teach them. We're adults and we're still working on our skills like impulse control and emotional regulation, right? So there are going to be areas where we all struggle, but it's important that we are very aware of at least the approach that we're taking. We don't have to be perfect at it. Perfect doesn't exist, right? I've seen the impact of them firsthand, not only just hearing about it with, through the research and all that stuff. Yeah, that's great. But sometimes stubborn people like me and you, and not, not as a you, but maybe the person listening, sometimes we have to go through it and actually see how ineffective it is to see the negative impact that if we give them stickers for everything, that they're

just going to be chasing the sticker as opposed to the real reason that they should actually be doing the thing and actually really building on that skill and that understanding. It's not easy, but we don't have to be perfect in it. Avoid being a perfectionist, be an improvingist. The goal isn't to be perfect every day. The goal is to improve a little every day. I love that. is not like other MBA programs. It's for true changemakers who want to think differently and solve the world's most pressing challenges. From healthcare and the environment to energy, government, and technology, it's your path to meaningful leadership in all sectors.

For details, visit uvic.ca slash future MBA. That's uvic.ca slash future MBA. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are.

So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever,

making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman.

I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot.

Flight risk. Because part of what you're speaking to also is this idea of don't just tell, model. You know, model the behavior that you're speaking to also is this idea of don't just tell model, you know, model the behavior that you want people to see because people, whether it's a little kid or whether it's a friends in life, whether it's partners, whether it's colleagues later, you know, if you got one thing coming out of your mouth and then your behavior is different, you know, like it creates this cognitive dissonance where people are like, uh, Hey, I don't trust that person anymore.

And I'm going to listen to what they're doing more than what they're telling me, because if they're telling me something, but they're doing something different, then, you know, like they must be doing it for a reason, you know? And so I would imagine in the classroom, you like that, you know, when you describe a teacher modeling behavior, which is more about let's punishing control and even get manipulative, that's going to kind of signal to the kids, even if the teacher is saying something different, well, the way to push through life is to dominate and control and manipulate. So even if for a hot minute, it creates order in a classroom, it's like you're dropping something into a kid's mind, which is going to affect the way that they relate to other people for the rest of their lives, which could be really negative.

Yeah. One of the most classic versions of like is, you know, why are you yelling? I told you stop yelling. We don't yell in this house or this classroom, whatever it is, right? It's like, it's clearly we do yell in this environment because that is how you're solving this problem. So why would we expect children to solve their problems, you know, different, better than us? Why would we expect a child with, you know, not a fully formed brain and your brain isn't fully formed until 25, 26, but especially that five and younger stage. And I would say, especially that eight

and younger stage, their brains are in the very beginning stages of like developing things like impulse control and emotional regulation, prioritization, working memory, organization, all these executive skills. They're in the very beginning stages of learning these things. And so if we can't, with our fully formed adult brain, emotionally regulate and then respond in a way that's going to be more effective and productive and helpful, why would we expect a child who's been learning all of this stuff from us to, you know, have a better response than us? It just doesn't make sense, which is, and then, you know, even back to us as adults, right, where maybe you just learned about, you know, gentle, conscious,

whatever parenting or just, you know, more healthy, you know, science-based ways to parent or teach. And you learn all these strategies about validating emotions and collaborative problem solving and emotional regulation and breathing and pausing and mantras and positive self-talk and all these things that you start learning and start hearing about. And you're really invested in it. And you're like, I want to be the best parent or teacher or leader or whatever that I want to be. And then you go and try and do it. You're going to mess up for, you're going to make mistakes for lots of reasons. One reason is that you're learning and mistakes are an inherent part of the learning process. You can't learn something new and challenging without making mistakes.

It just doesn't happen. So expect for those mistakes to happen. And those mistakes will teach you more than when things do go your way. One. Two, it's still going to feel a little awkward because you haven't seen or heard, experienced anything. So validating an emotion like you're used to, your body is conditioned. Like the way that we're parented and raised and we grow up is not just like a brain thing. It's a brain body thing.

Like it is conditioned in our body. So when someone, whether it be a child or an adult or a spouse, whatever, when they react and they're triggered and they get emotional and they're like, why is this this way? It shouldn't be this way. Our body may tell us to react again with the same kind of emotion, to catch their emotion and be like, it shouldn't be this way, but you need to stop yelling at me and put it back on them, right? Like our body is, we were conditioned to do that. And that's what we're going to feel like doing. It'll take work to pause and to stop that reaction,

that unconscious reaction that's happening, that's been conditioned within us and to make a more thoughtful, helpful response. Thoughtful being something that like, okay, let me respond in a way that could potentially help this other person, that could potentially help me, that could potentially move us forward in whatever this issue or problem that is in front of us right now. That's going to be really hard. So why? So even

us as an adult, right? It's so easy to be like, change your behavior, change your behavior. Like, you should just change your behavior because I told you, or I put a punishment, like change your behavior. It's that easy. But then we have a hard time changing our behavior, right? Because if there's anything that's going to change the behavior of a child, it's by us changing our behavior, right? Because if there's anything that's going to change the behavior of a child, that's by us changing our behavior as an adult, which is hard to do. So give yourself grace and give them grace, right? Everyone deserves grace while they're learning in this journey. Yeah. I mean, so much of this comes back to, I know this is a phrase that you reference a lot, like emotional regulation. And then to more expansively co-regulation, like we're all in this thing where we're running these scripts and we're trying to actually rewire those scripts.

And the scripts tell us oftentimes how to respond, how to behave. But the input is something that happens and it triggers an emotion, which triggers a script, which triggers our behavior. It's like those don't get rewired overnight. Right. You know, so I love the idea of forgiving ourselves. Um, but I wonder sometimes if part of the reason is I'm so curious to hear what you think about this. I wonder if sometimes part of the resistance we have to sort of like saying, okay, so yes, let me re-examine all this stuff. This sounds really interesting. And maybe I'm even, I'm down on, I'm down to do the work, but it's going to mean that I may stumble in a somewhat public way, whether that's with a partner, whether that's with someone at work, whether that's with kids who I want to perceive me as being this sort of like all knowing person who like a kind of always like is this dream person who helps them along the way, standing in that place of vulnerability, standing in a place of like actually seeing other people publicly watch you fail. I often wonder how much just that single thing alone serves as a really big resistance point to us even trying all these new things where,

like you said, we know we're going to mess up a whole bunch along the way, but we're going to do it in a way that's public and observable. And we're so terrified of that, that we just don't even want to try. Yeah. And that's a part of the unhealthy messaging that we received growing up. And as you just put perfectly, right? because that's what our parents said too, they, you know, wouldn't apologize for mistakes and just would try to have, make it look like they don't make mistakes. Like I am this all knowing person and like come to me because I know everything and I will tell you the right thing to do because I'm right. And you always need to listen to what me, the adult authority figure says. And if you go against what I said, or you are trying to do, you make a mistake,

then I will, there will be fire and brimstone so that you learn not to make mistakes again. And so that you'll get it right the next time. And, and, and, you know, we And we communicate this, not just in parenting, but our education system definitely supports this notion of like, it's not okay to make mistakes. You're going to be punished for mistakes. And that actually holds back our learning so much. And there's a lot of research on that. And so just acknowledging that, that's why I call them generational cycles, because there are these unhealthy patterns that we pass on to our children. And there are these cycles that unless we become conscious and aware of them, then we can't break the cycle. We can't stop the cycle and do something different. We'll just unconsciously keep passing on these unhealthy

messages. And so, you know, you find yourself, you know, maybe as a parent or maybe even in a sport or in your job and, you know, you're faced, you're learning something new and you make a mistake and, you know, you maybe you blame someone else or you, you know, you hide behind the mistake or you don't ask the questions so you could learn, you know, better next time. And that holds us back. And so acknowledging that is, and becoming aware of that is the first thing to do. Now that doesn't stop the feeling in your body when you make a mistake, but it's, it's, that's the first thing to do. Now the benefits. Now the other thing is, so what do we do instead, right? We acknowledge that we are fallible human beings who make mistakes just like everyone else, right? And I would, instead of hiding your mistakes from your children, I would go that complete opposite

route. And I would say, make mistakes in front of them, publicly in front of them, talk about mistakes, embrace the mistakes, model how to respond to a mistake, how to take accountability, how to apologize, because then they're going to learn how to do those same things, right? Just when they make a mistake or they do something at school or to their brother or sister or even to you, you want them, maybe not in the moment where they're all riled up, but you want them to be able to come back to you and apologize and say, I'm sorry, mommy, daddy, sister, brother, teacher, friend, you know, I did this thing. I was really frustrated.

Next time I'm going to try to do this. You know, next time I'll do this instead. And by the way, an apology isn't just I sorry. And enforcing an apology doesn't teach someone how to make a genuine apology. Because even I would say that the fact that an apology is forced makes it not apology. It's not really an apology. And who wants a forced, who wants to receive a forced apology? I know that I don't. If anything, it makes me feel even more frustrated, trigger the feeling of more frustration and just disconnection because it's like, you really don't get it. And now you're just, now you're going to just say whatever you, you know, got to say to get out

of the situation, to not understand where I'm coming from or not take accountability for what you did. And you don't take accountability. Like you just say that like, hey, that's not my fault. Don't try to hide it behind a fake apology. But going back to the idea of us putting out the image that we're perfect to our children, if we're communicating this message that they need to be perfect or that they can't make mistakes and we don't make mistakes, like what happens when they do make a mistake, when they do mess up at school or with their friend or they did something and they let their impulses get the best of them? What kind of environment, what kind of culture are we creating where they can come and admit their mistake, where they can go to you and feel safe to be like, I messed up and I want to do different and I want help in, or I'm willing to take help in that, right? When we're just punitive and we're like, when we don't make space for that, there will be no space for that. And they're going to dig deeper into, you know, blaming or

hiding their mistakes or looking at themselves as defective because they're making mistakes. Meanwhile, in reality, everyone around them is making mistakes, right? Including you. And so we're not doing our kids any favors by pretending that we don't make any mistakes. I think really go the other way and show and model how to make mistakes and just let them know and communicate that they are a part of the learning process. Yeah, so important, right? It's like if we model the fact, we model our own perpetual imperfection and vulnerability that we're teaching them that it's okay to actually be that way. And in fact, that is fundamentally the nature of the human condition rather than saying,

oh, we're modeling perfection. We're inadvertently teaching them that that's the standard to aspire to, which nobody can ever meet, which immediately says, okay, so what we're effectively doing is saying, we're going to guarantee there's a certain amount of shame that follows you around through your entire life because you will never be able to meet this standard that we say is, quote, normal. And it's not that any parent or teacher, like we're not trying to do this. We really want the best for our kids. But I think it's that generational, the generational cycles that you talk about, this has been modeled for us. So we just kind of say, well, we're going to step into that same thing. I think it's so interesting that you use this phrase breaking

generational cycles, because so often when we hear a phrase like that, we think, well, we're talking about a cycle of violence or a cycle of poverty or a cycle of addiction. But we don't think about the generational cycles of these more nuanced, more subtle social expectations about how to move through the world that are part of every person's life. We just think about these extreme examples, but it's like there are these generational cycles that affect every single person no matter what. And I feel like these cycles that we're talking about, they're so much more invisible often that they're less likely to ever be noticed and addressed in a meaningful way. And that's why I think so much of the work that you're doing is so powerful. And I imagine you feel this is that you're making of, you're, you're making them visible and then saying, let's talk about this and let's talk about a different way. You know, and the thing about it is once you start to, the more you talk to people and the more like it's, it's very visible. It's really a part of

our culture now. We've just kind of normalized a lot of like the toxicity in our culture. And so like, we're kind of blind to it because it's all around us. Like does a fish even see the water? Right. You know, but when we talk about, you know, teaching children how about to disconnect from their emotions and saying, you're fine, get over it. It's not a big deal. These are things that we hear all the time. When we talk about adults who say that, you know, when someone is asking them, like when something, they're visibly not okay. And someone asks them, hey, are you okay? Is there a way that I can support you? What do we say? I'm fine. No, it's, I'm good. It's all good. Don't worry about it. Right.

And so we will ignore our own emotions, right. And even in situations where it's really important, this pandemic was a big lesson for a lot of people and learning to identify your needs and to take care of your needs and being able to communicate your needs in a time where so when things are routine and it's a little bit easier to just kind of to be in the routine and have something, a system that fits for you and works for you and you kind of do day to day. But the pandemic and everything changing, it's like this isn't like there is no normal. There is no standard. There is no like kind of like standard of what to go by. So it is us a lot of figuring out like, what are our needs? What are the needs of, what are my needs as a human being, as a mother, as a father, as a teacher, as a whatever, what are our needs as a family? And acknowledging, having the conversation of what are your needs as a company, right? As your boss, like what, like what, and can we identify what our needs are

and then come up with a solution that works for both of us, right? And if not, if we can't come up with a solution that works for us, then maybe we're not a right fit for us. Now, obviously other things come into it, like obviously like financial means and, you know, does your partner is, you know, how much savings do you have, does your partner, how much savings do you have? And does your partner able to like support you? And there are a lot of things that go into it, but that's the point of being able to identify and connect with your own emotions and needs and your own kind of internal need compass, your own kind of internal compass and being able to navigate the world through that, not just this is what everyone else is doing or this is just what the standard is. So I'm just going to go ahead and do that because what's right for one person is not right for another.

One person can thrive in a situation. Another person can completely crumble. And so it's important for us to be able to kind of identify our own needs and to be able to communicate those needs. And it's clear that a lot of us struggle with that. And I've had many, many conversations with many people who've, you know, didn't feel comfortable, you know, talking to their leader, their boss. And I think a big part of that is how we teach children to advocate for themselves. You know, we teach children, we largely teach them to like, you got to deal with it.

And like, this is the way it is. And you can't say anything about it. You can't question anything. And if you do like fire and brimstone, right? And so then we grow up and we're adults and we have a hard time talking to our boss and really advocating for ourselves. So what do we do? We shove down our emotions, we push it all down until, you know, the straw that broke the camel's back, that last thing, that last thing that triggered, and then you blow up. And it's like six months of issues

that you're blowing up with that probably that may have been able to be handled if we were able to communicate effectively. And not just the, you know, not just the employee, but also the leader, too. struggling and that's what's affecting their performance or having them take over another person's job is going to impact this human in a way that isn't going to be healthy for them. And honestly, not healthy for your bottom line, if that's what you care about as a leader. All these things are interconnected. So yeah, they can seem invisible because it's all around us and it's something that most of us struggle with because most of us were kind of been happening in leadership and in parenting and in teaching that is starting to shift a lot of these paradigms. And so as this is happening, more and more people are able to really see themselves and see children or see their direct reports or the people that they're leading in an organization, they're in a so much better spaces, in the households and classrooms and organizations, for the people in power to be able to more effectively lead their people, to more effectively see their people, and to create these environments where everyone is thriving. Yeah, it's like creating an environment of safety and empathy where everybody can step into it and feel like they get what they need. programs. It's for true change makers who want to think differently and solve the world's most

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Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die.

Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot? Flight risk. It's funny, as you were just sort of like talking about the movement and the evolution, that phrase that I think we've probably all seen at some point in our lives on like a post or somewhere, you know, like everything I need to learn as a grownup, like I learned in preschool. And I'm thinking to myself, but if everything that you learned in preschool is all about dominance and control and perfection, then you've carried that into adulthood, which we're seeing now. So what we're

seeing is like all those lessons, we learned all the lessons in preschool and we've carried them into adulthood, but they are actually weren't all the lessons that I needed to learn. They were the lessons that, that created a more orderly, less stressful process for sort of like those in power and inadvertently like seeded a lot of future pain and shame in our lives. And again, like neither of us are saying like anyone is intentionally trying to cause harm. Right. I think a lot of us,

this is the way we've been taught to do things. This is the environment that we've stepped into for generations. This is kind of just the way that we've sold. Oh, this is just how it's done. Like, this is how you get a kid safely through school. This is how you create an orderly day for the classroom.

So people quote, have the environment where they can learn. But I guess what you're saying here is, but maybe it's the exact opposite. Maybe what we're doing is stripping humanity and judgment and vulnerability and openness along the way. And it gets us to maybe a more orderly experience, but then it's going to fall apart at some time later in life. If it doesn't fall apart in a classroom early, at some point, you know, the other shoe's going to drop. So I love the fact that you're sort of saying there's, there's this, there's a movement

afoot and you're certainly, you know, a voice that is championing this evolution. What if we, instead of focusing on classrooms being more orderly, more factory-style, checking all the boxes, what if we more focused on emotional, mental, social, and physical health? Those are way more worthy goals than is everything in order in the way that I would expect it to be. Because that is not even close to what life is. And so we always say like, what if like, we're preparing them for life? And like, no, you're not. You might be preparing them to easily fall into an unhealthy, toxic system of control and power and more easily fall into that. But the consequences of that are consequences that I don't think anyone wants. We can see that so clearly in so many things in the world that just orderly is not enough, especially when we know the universe isn't

orderly, that things change all the time. And I don't need to keep on talking about how things can change and the little things change because we've all just experienced we're, you know, still going through a pandemic. So you know. Yeah, we've all felt that. You know, one of the things I want to ask you about also is because this is an idea I've heard you talk about in different ways in different contexts is when we move beyond sort of like the fundamental social skills and really understanding the relational skills. I love the way that you frame sort of like the teaching the skills of awareness and health on the different levels and in different domains. One of the other things that you also bring into the conversation is this idea of the critical role of figuring out what you phrase as

your superpower and your why. And of course, a lot of the work that I've done in my adult life, it syncs right up with that. I'm a huge believer, but it's something that is so rarely explored in school. I mean, even in, forget about preschool, forget about middle school or high school, not even in college, not even in advanced education. It's generally about how can we make you really, really competent at a core set of like things that are deemed to be important. And maybe even when you're in college or grad school that you deem to be important. How do we get skilled? How do we develop like domain expertise? But it's so rare that somebody sort of like ask you to go deeper and say like,

what's underneath that? Like, why do you really care? Like, what is it that's lighting you up? I love the notion that you center this from the earliest days in the conversation. to their kind of internal, because that's really our GPS system for life. Not everything is going to be right for every person. Different situations may serve different people in different ways. And as we always say, there's no one size fits all for anything. There's no one size fits all for life, right? Some people will have happier, healthier, more meaningful, fulfilling lives if they go to college. Some people will have happier, more meaningful,

fulfilling lives if they don't go to college, right? And so in the very beginning, and it's also something that I see kind of connected to this whole like midlife, quarter life crisis thing. Or you think about it from the time that children, I see it very, very young because I work with children as young as three weeks, as old as 12 years. That's kind of the range of children I've worked with and in this space and early childhood. So I get talking to a lot of parents and a lot of teachers and talking about goals. And from the time that they're like an infant, it's like, how can we push you to the next milestone, right?

And some of this is driven by, you know, competition too of like comparing other children and other people. And again, that's the whole like, everyone develops at their own pace and everyone has their different things that they develop. It's not just say like, you know, someone may develop more physically and another person may develop more socially, you know, quicker. Right. And so from the time that children are infants, I see parents

and teachers working together. I mean, that's a positive working together, but just, you know, to push them to the next milestone. How can we get them up to the next room? How can we get them? We got to get them rolling over quick. Then we got to get them walking quick. Then we got to get them out of diapers quick. Then we got to get them to preschool and be ready for preschool and academics and start writing their name quick. Then we have to prepare them for kindergarten quick. Then we have to compare, then we have to prepare them for kindergarten quick. Then we have to prepare them for the rest of elementary school and then middle school and then high school. And then high school is all about preparing to get into college so that you can go to college and then get an entry. You pick your major so that you can get this specific job. It's not about like what you want to study or what you care about, but like what job you want. And so then again, pushing and all,

all this time, we haven't even, we don't even question or help the child figure out what they want, what they care about, what, you know, what lights them up, what their core values are. And then, but we keep pushing, okay, you're, you're out of college where their core values are. And then we keep pushing, okay, you're out of college, get that entry-level job, all right? And then it's about get that entry-level so you can move up and move up and move up. And what ends up happening for the people that do get there, not everyone gets there, but for the people that do get there and they move up and they climb up the ladder and they have the accomplishment or they become the doctor or the lawyer or the thing that they always dreamed of that they were always being pushed to do without a second thought because it was the standard or created some

status or maybe you know it was something that the parent could brag about all along the time they get there and they realize that like this isn't even what they want like it's not even something that's fulfilling to them and they just spent all this time their their whole life up to this point investing in something that wasn't particular to them wasn't something that they care about they may be very successful and very good at their job, but it's not meaningful to them. And they're going every day and they're suffering. And it's a struggle every day. And it's not something that gets them out of bed. It's something that keeps them in bed, but they have to get out because the paycheck and it's just, at this point, you've already put so much into it, you paycheck and just, it's just, you know, at this point you've already put so

much into it. You can't just not show up. And so we get stuck. And that's what we call, some people realize that around college and trying to figure that out and call that a quarter life crisis. Sometimes people don't figure it out until they're, you know, in their fifties or there's a big life event, like a pandemic or someone passes away or a divorce or something like that. And then it's like, oh, what about me? Like, what do I care about? Like, what do I value,

right? What's important to me? And when we could have been baking this into the conversation throughout their entire life from the time that they are young and helping them express their, when they're, when they say that, you know, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to put my iPad away. I don't want to stop this. You know, instead of completely dismissing how they feel and saying, it doesn't matter what you want, you need to do this. It's like, ah, I get that. Like you've

been, you know, you're in the middle of the game or, you know, you've been playing for 20 minutes and you really want to finish. And I said, it was time to go. And you felt really upset by that. And you're really frustrated by that. I get that. I'm here with you. Now the outcome may not change. The iPad may still have to go away at that time, right? But the difference is, is like, I hear you, I get it's hard. And maybe next time we will, you know, maybe, maybe we can have a visual timer next time so that we can, you're able to better manage your time and look at the time. Because I know just hearing about time, it's challenging for you because you're not going to say the whole thing about like your brain is still developing and your concept of time is abstract because you're so young.

But, you know, we're under coming from a place of understanding and coming from a place of like, yeah, this is tough for you. I get that little older. It is about maybe more about facilitating their interests and allowing them to explore the things that they want to explore. Or even when they say like, I think that I should have a bedtime at, my bedtime should be extended from eight o'clock to nine o'clock. And when they say that, like my, you know, like my friends, instead of saying, that's not going to happen. So, your bedtime's been eight o'clock for three years now, and we're going to keep it. It's simple. So, don't even talk to me. Like, don't even talk to me. Nope. Are you talking back to me? What I just said. Instead of doing that and shutting them

down and like, okay, I hear you. You feel that you, you know, you said you're not tired at eight o'clock and you feel like you're old enough to stay up till nine o'clock. Hmm. Okay. Well, maybe there's something that we can do, right? Or maybe we can, you know, my concern is that you're going to, you know, if you stay up till nine o'clock, you're going to have a hard time in the morning, you know, waking up. Or maybe it has something more to do with, hey, I want to play the iPad at nighttime. And we, maybe we know because of our research, we're like, hey, screen time at night actually impacts your sleep and makes it more difficult to sleep in the past than the last two hours. So that's why we don't do screen time.

So maybe instead of, even though we have the research, maybe we're like, I hear you, let's actually track your sleep. Let's actually, let's, let's have your screen time, you know, towards the, in the last, you know, two hours, and then let's track your sleep and see if it impacts it. Right. And then we'll make a decision based off that, right. It's not immediately dismissing them when they have a feeling or they have a thought. It's hearing them out. It is allowing them to advocate.

Maybe they're old enough. They can put together a proposal. Maybe they can do a little research project like I just described about like their sleep, if that's our concern, but they're sharing their concerns. We're sharing our concerns. And then we are trying to move

forward in a way that meets both of our concerns as the parent and as the child, as the teacher and the child, or the leader of the organization, the organization's needs and the individual person and their family's needs, right? And if we just teach that skill of hearing another person out and empathizing with another person, and while also communicating our needs and our concerns, and then being able to collaborate and come together so they can move forward and do some problem solving, that will make so many things in life, so many cultures, so much healthier, so many, so many interactions, so much healthier. And I really think that if by the masses, we're teaching this, and this is becoming the norm, that the way that people communicate, because right now it's not the

norm people communicate. The norm is you're triggered, I'm triggered, and we're going to have a trigger battle. And we're not going to hear what the other person's saying. We're just going to just share our points of view and really not even have a conversation because we're just saying two things that don't even relate to each other. We really are building the foundations for world peace. I love that. And that is, I think, a perfect place for us to come full circle in our conversation as well. So as we hang out here in this container of the Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? Now, to live a good life. I'm one, actually. I tend to move away towards words like good and bad because there's

such vague judgment values that really depend on so many things. And I think someone says a good life, or you talk about the good life, you know, people may think money and material things and like, that's a good life, right? I see it as, I think a good life can include material things and money, but I don't think it has to, as long as your basic needs are met. I think it's more about, you know, how can we live a fulfilling, meaningful, happy lives that we can be proud of at the end of it and lives that not only help produce meaning and a feeling of fulfillment and enjoyment in our own lives, but also how can we inspire that in other people's lives? And how can we kind of pass the torch? We think about life as a finite game, as a finite, like you're here. And I think that's part of the perfect thing.

I got to get it right. I got to get this parenting thing right. I got to get this life right. I got to get it right. And I really think it's more of an infinite, ongoing, never-ending process of learning and growing. And it didn't start when you came here, and it's not going to end when you leave here. And so, like I said, these generational cycles and how you grew up and how you were raised and in the environment and the culture that you were raised in, that's been being created for many, many years, for centuries and centuries and centuries and centuries and centuries, right? And culminating up until this point where this point in time, you're born and

you're alive and then you become the adult and now you have a little bit of power in life. And now you're cultivating another life that you've brought into this world. And the goal isn't like I raised them right and perfect so that they grow up to be right and perfect, but it's just about the little improvements that you can make, the little bits of growth that you can make for yourself. Like how can you model caring for yourself so that you can care for others? And over time, as you leave the earth and they become the ones who are, you know, who inherit the earth and are, you know, they may or may not have children of their own, or even if they don't have children of their own, they're still interacting with other people in the world.

And that's having real life consequences of how those people are engaging and interacting in the world with other people. And compassion is contagious, but also those unhealthy toxic patterns are contagious too, right? Being in a toxic work environment for long enough, you can kind of catch some of those work patterns and bring those things home, right? And so being a toxic leader, you have a huge impact just like a toxic parent might be. And I don't even like labeling it, like putting it that

simple because it's not that simple. But let me just say more of these kind of toxic patterns of behavior that we tend to exhibit and to pass on. We can do that same thing for the healthy behavior and even things like our self-talk, even things of how we communicate. I don't know, I'm going on a little bit long here, but I want to kind of share this in terms of like language. This last little bit that I think is really powerful, that like a lot of the language, a lot of the ways that we talk to ourselves, it's the way that we were talked to when we were growing up, right? You're so stupid. You always get this wrong. Oh, you're not good enough, right? Skin perpetuates and perpet up, right? You're so stupid. You always get this wrong. Oh, you're not good enough, right? Skin perpetuates and perpetuates, right? And we are so aware of like how our language,

like curse words, right? How they negatively or how children will kind of adopt the language that we use around them, right? And so like, if you don't believe it, then I'd say, like, just start going in a classroom and to start dropping the F-bomb and start dropping the SH-bomb and see what happens, right? You're not going to do that. Don't actually do that. You're not going to do that because you recognize the power that words have and how we learn, you know, language from each other, but we don't necessarily recognize the power of that language on a positive note, right? Of the positive language that we can use and how that impacts, you know, people and children,

you know, for generations and generations to come. So to answer your question concisely, to live a good life, I would say it's about living an improvementist life. It's not about being perfect. It's about taking every day to improve a little bit. Avoid being a perfectionist, be an improvementist. Love it.

Thank you so much. Hey, before you leave, if you love this episode, say that you will also love the conversation we had with Rini Jain about inspiring kids to be authentic and grow. You'll find a link to Rini's episode in the show notes. And of course, if you haven't already done so, go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app. And if you appreciate the work that we've been doing here on Good Life Project, go check out my new book, Sparked. It'll reveal some incredibly eye-opening things about maybe one of your favorite subjects, you, and then show you how to tap these insights to reimagine and reinvent work as a source of meaning, purpose, and joy. You'll find a link

in the show notes, or you can also find it at your favorite bookseller now. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. We'll see you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Mayday, mayday.

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