Good Life Project - Neil Pasricha: From Awesome Hunter to Happiness Crusader

Episode Date: March 28, 2016

Today's conversation features Neil Pasricha, New York Times bestselling author of The Book of Awesome series, three time Webby Award winner, Harvard MBA grad, former Director of Leadership Development at Walmart, and husband, father, son, and brother.He is the author of a new book, The Happiness Equation: Want Nothing + Do Anything = Have Everything, which started as a letter to his unborn child on how to live a happy life, after his wife told him she was pregnant on the flight home from their honeymoon!TIn This episode, You’ll Learn:How Neil divides his time into 3 buckets for optimal happiness (and how they are different from the 3 buckets Jonathan offers).Why wanting can often lead to the exact opposite of happiness.Why he advocates for a 'home contract' as a key to happiness, in addition to a business or employment contract.How action leads to motivation, not the other way around.Why he's loving the word practice these days.Mentioned In This Episode:100 Awesome ThingsThe 3 A's of awesomeThe Institute for Global Happiness Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The average lifespan is 25,000 days. And so in that time structure of time being finite and counting down and so rare, I have this feeling that if I'm not conscious about how I'm spending my week, then I quickly lose track of the whole year. Today's guest, Neil Peserica, had a really brutal time a couple years back. He was in the deepest part of a divorce at a pretty young age. His best friend took his own life to mental illness, to some deep demons and struggles. And he was trying to find a way out.

And he started on a daily basis just posting something that was awesome on a blog that he threw up in 10 minutes. That became a thousand awesome things and gained a massive worldwide audience that turned into book series and global speaking career. And it helped lift him out of a really dark moment in his life. And he ended up getting remarried, becoming a dad, and really turning his attention to, okay, what actually is it that makes you happy, that makes him happy? And can he identify some interesting patterns that he might be able to share? And that's ended up in the pages of a new book called The Happiness Equation. So I'm really excited to sit down and share some time talking, not really just about the

book, but also really going deeper into Neil's journey and what it was like to move through this window in his life that led to a lot of these ideas dropping. Hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. I'm Jonathan Fields. This is Good Life Project. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power.

Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in

just 15 minutes the apple watch series 10 available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum compared to previous generations iphone 10s are later required charge time and actual results will vary mayday mayday we've been compromised the pilot's a hitman i knew you were gonna be fun on january 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die.

Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. We almost met. Was it four years ago? Five years ago? Yeah. Yeah, I think that is how long ago it was.

But hours before, you basically were medevaced out of the country. So I still don't know entirely what happened. You're talking about the world domination. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what actually went down there? Oh, well, I was on this stint, you know, after my first book came out, just touring around like mad. And I had a full-time job at Walmart. So I was coming from the Walmart shareholders meeting in Bentonville, Arkansas, where I was speaking between the Black Eyed Peas and Will Smith. And I flew to Portland, super excited for the World Domination Summit,

where you and I were both going to be with Chris and the incredible people he attracts and gathers. And I don't know to this day if it was the Mexican-Korean taco truck on the launch party night. But I do, like, the next, I was suddenly, you know, strapped to an IV in the hospital all night throwing up. And I was feeling so unwell that I had another place to go after that even. And I just called home and said, I just need to come home, see my family, rest. I just, I pulled out. And to this day, I feel bad about it because I missed the speech at World Domination Summit

and the one after it. And they're the only two speeches I'd ever missed. But as you know, part of what we do is you don't miss stuff. And so when you do, it feels almost twice as bad. It's funny. I was just having a conversation actually with my wife about this and about the life of a speaker. And because one of the sort of hidden rules or non public rules is that if you sign up and this is a paid gig, that the expectation is you're going to show up. And I had to bail on something last year for the first time. And it was because

I literally, I flew cross country. And as I was descending, my ears filled with fluid and I was in excruciating pain. I lost my hearing and I had to take a train back from San Francisco to New York and I was grounded for three months. The gig coming up after that, I had to, like, for the first time, I just couldn't get there. Yeah. But the expectation, like, I know people that have gone on stage with 105 degree temperature, like, having come out of surgery hours earlier. It's a weird dynamic. But there's this thing where, you know, like, hundreds or sometimes thousands of people are showing up to see you, and you made a commitment to come. And it gets a little unhealthy sometimes.

You know, and you try to hide if you have a headache even. You put that away for a couple of hours. But it can be grueling. And grueling in a way that's not well understood. You know, it's a different type of grueling. It's a hashtag first world problem. Exactly. And I remember Chris saying to me, he's like, dude, i think he has dysentery or something and i was like really

like legit that was like a topic of conversation you were you're actually i mean you were because he came to me and he's like we may need you to go on like you're our backup for anybody that calls in sick you know if you you know you may need to do a double gig and so i remember it was like a little touch and go. And so he was kind of like sharing what was going on. But let's talk about the reason that you were actually bopping around and touring. Because back then, you were, like you said, you had a full-time gig. You were working at Walmart as an executive, I guess.

What were you actually doing there? Yeah, a number of roles over the years. Most recently, Director of Leadership Development. So in charge of all the, you know, if you become a CEO or you become an executive or you become a new director, what type of training do you get and what type of experiences do you get to make sure that you're ready to do the job? So I was in charge of all those programs. Yeah. So you were hanging out there and, um, I guess there was stuff that was going well in your life and there was stuff that was kind of crumbling on me. You weren't happy about, let's put it that way so what was actually like zoom the lens out or what was going on that also then turned around and led you to actually start this incredible project back then sure 2008 2009

i was in a new marriage that was heading in the wrong direction i've been together a couple years the respect the sort of things you would check off the boxes were all there, but something was missing. And my wife called it out first. And that's painful when you don't notice that things aren't going well and somebody works up the courage to share that with you. So those conversations were starting to happen. I was on the receiving end of them. Meanwhile, my best friend at the time was struggling with mental illness. And we don't talk about it enough, but it's one in four

Americans. It's such a common thing. But I was so close to him that I was on the phone with him regularly. And so he's really struggling. And sadly, it didn't work out. So it got to the point where he very suddenly took his own life. And those two actual pieces of asking for a divorce and my friend taking his life happened within weeks of each other. And so a few months before those things happened, I was looking for positivity. I was trying to find something good. And there was no good life podcast I could download that day. And it was hard to turn on the TV or open the newspaper and find something positive.

So I started a blog. And I typed how to start a blog into Google. I pressed I'm feeling lucky. And WordPress had a big button saying press here to start a blog. And do you want it to be purple or red? And 10 minutes later you follow the template and I started 1000awesomethings.com just as a way to put a smile on my face for a thousand straight days. And that was the start of nothing. That was the start of a blog that my mom visited. And that was the start

of writing about bakery air and snow days from Canada. Snow days are a big deal. And things like that. And so that was really the start of a project to try to find positivity and optimism just because I needed it so badly myself. Yeah. And it's like the little steps. I mean, what's amazing about that to me, though, is also this idea that there was a voice inside of you where you were in a place where you were literally in the midst of two profound losses, yet there was still something inside of you that said, there's something that I can do. to actually start to get more of what I need to pull me out of this in my life. Whereas a lot of times, I think a lot of us default to this, to the just pure victimhood where, and I'm not talking without shame or blame,

but just to a place where you go into a despair, where you're looking for somebody else to come in and make it happen. So what's interesting to me is that you were in this really dark place, but at the same time, there was something inside of you that said, no, there's something I need to do to be proactive, to get me out of here.

Yeah. Thanks for saying that. You know, I look back at the first blog posts, Jonathan, and sometimes they don't strike me as very positive. It was actually just at the end of a long day full of, you know, many times pain and tears and, you know, talking to a therapist and working stuff through, I'd say, hey, how about broccoli flour? Or what

about the last triangle of potato chip crumbs in the corner of the bag? And it was, you know, you're right looking for positivity, but it was minutes out of a full day, you know, and it became something that became, you know, now I got to look for one tomorrow. Yeah. I got to try to find one for tonight. I got to keep a little note in my pocket. And there becomes the practice and the kind of coloring of my own daily experience with more positivity in a backwards way. I'm looking for it now and that trains my brain to be finding it more. Yeah. How much of the transition from,

hey, I'm going to start something to, this is actually a daily practice that I'm really committed to doing. How much of that transition was driven by your internal motivation to actually start to make this a daily thing versus the fact that you actually started to gain traction as, as like this thing actually started to build an audience from what I understand astonishingly quickly. Yeah. Well, you know, I, I started it for purely intrinsic reasons. I called it 1000 awesome things with an end date. You know, if I wanted it to last forever, I probably wouldn't have had an end date. You know, if I wanted it to last forever, I probably wouldn't have had an end point. It just ended suddenly at number one. It's over.

Suddenly the blog's getting 50,000 hits a day and I stop all of a sudden. But I, you know, it was 1000 and I thought, let's see if I can write 1000. That's it. That was the intrinsic motivator. I wanted to see if I could do it. It was a personal challenge. And it began that way. And sadly and unfortunately, but maybe in a common way, I began to become distracted quickly by things like the blog stat counter, which one day zoomed to 50,000 hits when it hit fark.com. All dangerous playground equipment. Rusty slides. And we all miss people with casts because no one breaks their arms anymore. And, um, and then of course there's the desire to like say,

well, if I can get 50,000 hits, can I get a million? And can I get on this ranking of the best blogs in the world or this ranking? And can I get it to be a book and a bestseller? And a number of extrinsic motivators became, you know, my,

my brain got addicted and hooked and I became desiring of seeing how big I can make this thing. And the interesting thing is those things all came to pass, actually. I mean, you know, this turned into a book which became, from what I understand, a massive international bestseller. And then I guess a series of books even that came out of it. So at what point along, I mean, because the way you're describing it is that something that started as a daily practice that would add to your life. At some point, it sounds like started to become something that morphed into almost a negative rather than a positive. Well, there definitely were big negative aspects to that, right? Because I'm working the day job at Walmart.

I'm enjoying the job. The job I had at the time was working for the CEO as his kind of assistant project manager. So I'm writing speeches. I'm traveling to conferences. I'm sort of fly on the wall for big meetings. And it's a 24-hour-a-day type job. You check your email in the evenings and weekends. I get home, and home became a bachelor apartment downtown where I didn't know

anybody. Grab a takeout container from somewhere. My, you know, if I had someone over, they said, you don't even have a salt and pepper shaker in this place. You know, or like your cupboards are empty, not your fridge, your cupboards, like you don't have dishes. And then I'd write, you know, developing a hunch and I'd write and I'd smile and I'd post and I'd answer emails. I'd do maybe a media interview. I'd be up until two or three in the morning, then up the next day at seven to go to work or six even. Because Walmart starts pretty early. And that lack of sleep, that lack of exercise, that lack of a meditation practice, that lack of, you know, really a lot of social connection.

It became just the blog turned into something that took me a long time to realize like, hey, I'm not happy on the inside here. I'm becoming a voice for positivity. The Pied Piper of happiness was like a quote from a paper. The Book of Awesome comes out. And of course, the interview is like, so how do you become so happy like you are? It's a leading question, right? It's not as open-ended as yours are. It's like, so how do you become so happy like you are? It's a leading question, right? It's not as open-ended as yours are.

It's like, you got three minutes on TV to tell people why they should smile. And I hadn't fully processed the things that I was emotionally going through. Because as you know, they take years to try to unwind and figure those things. It took me a long time to get back on my feet and actually start meeting people again and start getting out there again, dating, things like that. So as you're going along the way, and this thing is starting to grow, and then the book comes out, and then you go out on tour,

and that's where I first heard of, well, that's where we missed each other closely. Because that was when you were out on tour. Or was it just before that, actually? Yeah, well, the book of awesome had come out, I think by then. And then there was a TED talk called the three A's of awesome. And that thing took off.

And from there, you know, the speaking agencies, the companies that I'm getting flown to Abu Dhabi to speak to the Royal family because they saw my TED talk because it was listed as an inspiring TED talk on a website. You know, it's like these things are flying at you and I'm asking my company for an extra vacation day here and there. And then maybe it's no wonder I got sick.

You know, it's probably you stretch yourself too thin. And the book, by the way, you know, it lasted 150 weeks on the bestseller list in Canada, hit the New York Times down here. And it's like, that meant that every day or two, there was like a request to answer interview questions for our website. Or there was a request to like, can you come to this? You know, in addition to everything else you got going on, I'm not complaining about it. But it's more like there became a lot of desire to make sure I answered every email and make sure I, you know, filtered all the comments. And, you know, you're trying to manage the whole community

as it's growing. And it was a lot. It was a lot. It's interesting to me also, because this was started literally when you were in a window of profound loss. And like you said, that takes therapy and it takes months or years to move

through. And when you end up in a position where pretty shortly after that, all of a sudden, there's a large spotlight shining on you and people who want your time. It's got to be a really tough dynamic where you're trying to heal and you need a certain amount of space and a certain amount of privacy for that. But all of a sudden you're thrust into the spotlight as the voice of somebody who quote, maybe is healed and is constantly happy. So it's like, how do you dance with that?

My gosh, you're forcing me to look at it in a way that is, is, you know, you're, you're right. There was masking in some senses. You know,

I, I went down the street to the pharmacy and I said, what is the best eye makeup you can sell me? Where nobody would know I was wearing eye makeup because I feel like the black bags under my eyes are, they look painful to even look at in the mirror. And I bought this $50 like little rolling stick to like cover up the bottom of my eyes because I was embarrassed.

People at work were saying to me, this is what they were saying to me, Jonathan. They were like, wow, how much weight have you lost? People ask that question. I was like, I probably lost like, you know, 30, 40 pounds. And they're like, wow, what's your secret? And I was like, stress, literally nothing else, you know, just that can be your third book, the stress diet. The stress diet. Yeah. Yeah. Go under a massive amount of stress and get very little sleep. 30 pounds, gone. So there's some masking and there is some personal processing. So I did seek out therapy. I was, you know, seeing someone like twice a week, then once a week, you know, I was petering it down, but that was very helpful. I was writing

and the writing of the blog was a therapeutic process. You know, every couple of weeks I wrote a personal post, you know, the between the bakery air and the snow days was a story about my friend, Chris, there was a story about my relationship ending. There was a story about, and so those, it forces you to really process them because you're sharing them. And of course, getting reactions from people in comments and through things like the TED Talk, that increases your ability to be comfortable with it. At first, I said to myself, I don't want to be

in this little Venn diagram circle called divorced people. I'm not going in that circle. I don't want people to know that I'm divorced. I don't want it to be, you know, and I'm East Indian too. I don't want it to be like a cultural, like negative thing. You know, I don't want to hit the dating scene and be like, yeah, like nice to me. I'm 30 years old. And like, I already sucked at this once, you know, like, like I, I was ashamed of it. And through things like the blog and talking about it, it, that I moved past that point pretty quickly. So, some ways, the limelight was more difficult to process. And in some ways, it accelerated it. Yeah.

I mean, it's really interesting. It's like a double-edged sword to a certain extent. So you're going through this. And then you end up being on tour. At what point did you, because you're not at Walmart anymore. No, that was just a few weeks ago. 10 years there, a decade, and very difficult to leave. Yeah.

So this whole time, it's like you're living two lives, having two different jobs. I didn't realize that actually just ended a few weeks ago. Yeah, just a few weeks ago. We're literally probably at the one-month anniversary. Are you open to sharing sort of what perpetuated you deciding it was time? Absolutely. I'm really open to talk about that. I have a model that I call the three bucket model.

And so it's really simple. You know, we all get 168 hours a week. You and I both get that. And so does the richest man in the world. You can't buy more time. And so I like to think of it as three buckets of 56. That's a relatively loose framework that adds up really nicely because if you get eight hours of sleep a night, well, guess what?

Eight times seven days a week is 56 hours. It's like perfect math. You're like, oh, yeah, it's nice and clear. I'm going to always strive for that. We all know how much it means to get good sleep. If you work a job like I did, that's eight hours. And so that was what my Walmart job was because you have emails in the evenings and weekends. And then my third bucket was all this stuff with the thousand awesome things with the book of awesome with writing, you know, my, my gratitude practice. And that was my third bucket.

But today, you know, I'm remarried and I have a young son and I'm a dad and I want to do the bath and I want to do the bedtime and I want to be there for breakfast. And that pretty quickly is a bucket, right? I mean, it's more than that. That pretty quickly is all three buckets. It's pretty quickly all three buckets for sure. But it is from zero time. It becomes a full-time bucket in kind of two seconds. And so then you're like, okay, I got the sleep.

I got the dad. What's it going to be? Is it going to be Walmart or is it going to be all the new stuff I'm working on, the new projects, the new writing and trying to figure out how to increase happiness inside organizations, which I think is the biggest kind of problem right now. And that to me was a very, very tough decision because also Walmart has so much that I love. It's got what I consider the four S's of a good job, the social, the structure, the stimulation of learning new things and the story, like being part of something bigger than yourself. So it was a really, really tough decision.

And I can't say I took it lightly. It took me years to get to that place, but it was forced by wanting to do, wanting to live. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it.

Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch,

getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun.

On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk.

Have a good life. I love that. It reminds me of a conversation I had a couple of years back, actually, with Helene Godin, who had like a 22-year career as a lawyer. And she was, you know, like phenomenally bright, phenomenally accomplished. She had a great job, loved what she was doing, loved who she was doing it with, and just decided one day, she's like, you know what, I'm done. And then she went to tell her, you know, like the head of the department that she was leaving.

He's like, what, what can we, we'll give you more money. Like, what is it? And she's like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not unhappy. I'm just done. Yeah. It's time for me to like do the next thing. Yeah.

And it's a story that I've, that I've rarely heard, you know, like, so you may be the second or third person that's kind of sat down and like shared, like, it wasn't that everything was awful. No. A lot of stuff was actually really great. I just had to make a decision about what would be greater. Exactly. And the other thing that was ringing through my head was that Nassim Taleb quote that says,

you know, the three most addictive things in life are, you know, heroin, carbohydrates, and a salary. And it was, you know, and not only that, but I'm moving up at Walmart, you know, it's like the salary becomes bigger, it becomes harder to leave. And so I just thought if I stay here, then I'm gonna have to quit writing. because I can't do that. And the speaking, I can't do that in the evenings and weekends anymore. It's not fair to say I got to fly out Friday night because I'm at a conference on Saturday, back Sunday morning. There goes that big day with my wife and my son and I just killed it because I have to go to work on Monday. It's not fair. I'd rather do that and then take Monday off, you know, which can make it, you know, so I have to find that space.

I had to create it. It was a very uncomfortable process, but that meant leaving the job, which is hard to do. Yeah, no doubt. And also because it's not just like you said, you're like, no, you're married, you have a child, you have another. As we're recording this, you're about to have a second. So it's no longer just a decision about you. No, exactly. It's not just your decision either.

Exactly. And so I got a great piece of advice from a boss of mine who was CEO of Walmart Canada at the time. And he's since gone up. One of my personal mentors, he said, Neil, whenever you go into a new position in life with any organization, you will get a contract. That contract will make specifications. It'll say you get this much money. You'll have this much work. you'll have this much work,

you'll have this job title. But what we don't do is create a similar contract for our home. What I recommend you do whenever you get a new job is draft a similar contract. It actually specifies with your partner the number of nights away a year and by month, the number of days just with your family. So I have this

written with Leslie. So I have a number of nights a year, a number of nights a month. And I also have that, we've written this out. The other thing we have is we will have one weekend day every week, just the three of us, no birthday party to go to, no family obligated, like just the three of us, one weekend a week. And every week I get an NNO, Neil's night out and she gets an LNO, Leslie's night out. You can do anything. You can go to the movie by yourself. You can wander around the bookstore. You can go, if you can figure it out, you can fly somewhere for dinner with a friend, whatever you, but you have to take it because the energy you get from that time away will recharge you to be an incredible parent the next few days. And so we, you know, Leslie and I force each other to take it. It's, it's hard to do that, but we we've built in that

NNO, LNO and the travel schedule. So if you break the contract, it's okay. But now you have something as a baseline to talk about. Yeah, no, I love that. Brad Feld had like similar things when I was talking to him about his wife and he had, he'd actually calculated like he would, he had permission to sort of fail. It was like, like 13% of the time. No way.

I like the specification. I carry it. It was really funny. Cause it's a very specific percentage where it's like, you know, we have to stick by this, but there's like, you know,

we realize life gets in the way sometimes. And like, they both agreed this was sort of like an okay amount of time to like break it. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah. So they even got that granular. But yeah, I mean, it is really a really interesting idea to actually say, okay, I'm going to make a substantial shift in the way like, you know, I'm contributing to the world and the work that I'm doing. You know, that's going to have a profound effect on my life, my lifestyle and the people in my life. So why don't we just revisit the expectations and the agreements around all of it at the same time?

You're right. I don't think many people do that. But I mean, what if they did? How amazing would that be? I know. And it's a beautiful thing to have because, you know, when there's times that you're out of balance, you're like, oh, I'm supposed to be away this many nights a month and it's double this month. You can quickly say, you know what? Let's make July no travel.

Or you can just quickly write that down in the calendar. And then you've just sort of, you've recreated some space with your personal life because you were out of balance one month. And it's just a nice reference point to come back to. And that's, it's interesting too, because it occurs to me also, as you leave your regular quote nine to five, which we know wasn't nine to five, right? And move into more writing and speaking. You're like, the one thing that we know is that the speaking life is not a sort of like, okay, every week I'm going to do two gigs type of thing. It's like, no, there are two big speaking seasons where you do like 80% of all your speaking in just a handful of months. So you're going to have those months where, you know,

you're just going to be on the road and doing all sorts of stuff. Or even right now, like you're launching a book, you know, there's going to be a couple of months where it's just intense. But if you have that longer term lens and this agreement, you're like, okay,

so we're all willing to put in this sacrifice, but let's agree that, you know, over six months, we need to somehow like balance this out with an equal amount of just chilling with the family. And you know what else it does? It affords you a little bit more confidence to say no to things.

Sometimes those speaking opportunities or book opportunities can be very seductive, either financially or just exposure wise. You're like, oh, I got to go speak at X company. It's like, it's the X company or whatever it is. But you can when you when you say no, if you have to, then you can be like, I'm doing it for the right reason. And being a little bit more conscious of the fact that you might not blow up to the sort of stress stratosphere level of career success. And that should be OK, because you're doing it within the lines you've painted, which nobody can necessarily see. And therefore, it's okay that they can, their opinion will not matter to you.

Yeah, so agree with that. I think it's often the opportunities that we say no to are the moments where we're leaving the biggest opportunity on the table in the name of taking action that's aligned with the essence of who we are. And that can be sometimes excruciating to our, like the, you know, the shiny object yearning, but longer term, man, I've made the opposite call and you always pay the price. You totally do. And it may not be a coincidence that in my biggest creative output years of career and blog and book and ted and all that stuff i was single like out of a marriage preceding another one greatest creative quantity of output but definitely not the healthiest placed and probably not a guy you necessarily

wanted to hang out with a ton because i you know that might have been a chatterbox obsessing about something you didn't care about you know what i mean that would have been our beer night you know and like when's this guy gonna shut up about his amazon ranking right it's like instead of neil's night i was like neil's years out exactly exactly and so um yeah i look at those years when the Book of Wants to Come Out in 2010, I look at them with a mixture of pride and a mixture of awe at the amount of work I was doing and a mixture of, ah, I'm glad I'm not sleeping that little anymore and I'm not draining myself that way anymore. Yeah. So, I mean, you've really doubled down in writing. You have a book out now called The Happiness Equation. And one of the things that's in is something that you actually just brought up a few minutes ago with this idea of a three-bucket model, which it made me smile when I first saw that because Good Life Project, we have a three-bucket model too. It's three different buckets.

But we speak about the same thing is that there's so much that you think about, like your lens on the world is so overlaid with sort of mine and the philosophy just of our greater community. So you kind of, you touched on what you mean by your three buckets and explaining something, but can you take me a little bit deeper into that? Sure, absolutely. Well, I just think that, you know, life is short. Let's just start with that. I have this funny stat that I like to think about. It's not, we don't talk about it that much, but, and it goes like this,

115 billion people have ever lived and only 7 billion people are alive today, which means 14 out of every 15 people who have ever lived are dead. They'll never have a bowl of chocolate ice cream. They'll never see a sunset. They'll never hug their grandkids. They'll never smell the candles blown out at their birthday. So you already got this time. It is precious. It is counting down. Let's just start with that finite amount of resource we all have. Then when you just add into that the average lifespan and subtract where you already are today, it becomes like a bit of a like heart beating moment.

You know, I heard an interview with somebody, I think it was Kevin Kelly, who said, I keep a little counter on my desktop with how many days I got left. That's a little bit, you know, dark. But when you do that, you're like, oh, that's weird. 14,000. I would have thought it'd, dark, but when you do that, you're like, oh, that's weird. 14,000. I would have thought it'd be more, but it's not. Average lifespan is 25,000 days. And so in that time structure of time being finite and counting down and so rare, I have this feeling that if I'm not conscious about how I'm spending my week, then I quickly lose track of the whole year.

And sleep's important. Work's important. But that third bucket, I kind of label it with a question mark in the book. I say, it is your anything you want bucket. It is your wild, crazy idea bucket. It is the bucket that is earned and justified and financially paid for by your work bucket, like the job or the thing you got that's making money, like that pays for that bucket. If you're a traveler or a knitter or a, you know, a rabid TV watcher, like there you go, you just earned it. And so I want people to recognize and really remember and feel like, what am I spending my third bucket on?

And my point in the book is just make sure it's something you love because you have such little time and you need to focus on doing something that your heart is like, yeah, I am in this and I'm enjoying it. Yeah. I often wonder whether so many of us spend a solid chunk of that third bucket recuperating from the parts of the other two that aren't functional. You know, so it's almost like it takes the capacity of that and kind of chops it. So it's almost only a fraction of that. And because it, you know, they're dynamic.

You know, if you're not sleeping enough, then you're going to have different capacity and different ones. Something interesting that you spoke about, though, like Kevin Kelly's countdown calendar and the fact that it's kind of dark. It's funny. Years ago, I once heard, I have no idea if this is legit or not, that the Dalai Lama meditates on death six times a day. And the more I've been exposed to Buddhism and just Eastern philosophy in general, the more I really actually understood the grace and beauty of revisiting impermanence on a very regular basis. And in the US especially, we find we're just so terrified of actually owning the fact that, yeah, one day I'm going to end and everyone I love is going to end and everything I love is going to end. So we don't want to think about it. We don't want to think about it.

We don't want to go there. It's too dark. But the flip side is what if it's the lightest thing that you could ever do? Because what if revisiting your own impermanence on a regular basis makes you wake up to the fact that time is precious, which I think is really the bigger point that you're making. It's so liberating. There's a famous Steve Jobs commencement speech at Stanford, remembering i'll be dead soon is one of the most kind of freeing things of life it does feel in a way as a society and i don't know if you get this sense too is like death is starting to come out of the closet a bit more i mean you know uh right now if you look at the bestseller list you know when breath becomes air is is really high up there um you know there's this conversation it feels

starting about being comfortable with the concept that we're not going to last because we're not and valuing today a bit more. It almost increases the sort of, how good is right now? It is incredible weather out right now and I'm going to be outside and I'm going to enjoy this. We owe it to ourselves because you don't have an unlimited amount of those days left yeah no i completely

agree and i i wonder if actually because at the same time what i'm saying i'm curious if you're saying this too because you travel so much and speak to so many people i'm seeing what what it feels like almost this mad rush away from a lot of traditional theology and religion and towards Eastern or even if it's not Eastern, like even it's not towards Buddhism or towards Eastern, but towards sort of like the fundamental big ideas. Part of that is honoring impermanence. Part of it is being present and actually acknowledging the moment. A lot of the field of positive psychology, when I actually look at what it really is, to me, it's the science of Buddhism. So I wonder if there's some sort of connection.

And how hilarious is it that we almost need, like, we got this wobbly elbow and we need that big pile of positive psychology books to rest it on to feel comfortable with like, oh, I heard that smiling actually makes you feel better backwards in your mind. So I'm going to try to smile more. I got to write it down a few times a day, like smile every hour. I got a little alarm bell on my phone. Like that's hilarious that we have this like backwards concept that, you know, the research must control our behavior, but who are we studying? We're studying ourselves, you know? So part of what I hoped to do with the work I'm working on now is, yeah, you know, touch and scratch the research. But make it more about, like, live your life. And here's some logical, you know, models. Here's some frameworks.

Here's a three-bucket model. Here's the, you know, HAA principle for self-acceptance. I'm just trying to put some things out there that work for me that have come from conversations I've had. And some of them are based in science. Some of them aren't. So you're going to have to judge about whether it's going to work or not. But we aren't going to rest on sort of the periodical of modern medicine to know or not. We're just going to have to believe it in our heart. Yeah, you got to kick the tires.

You just brought up HAA. Yeah. So that, and that's something that you bring up. So take me into that. Sure. We're all hiding stuff, right? Like we all have things, you know, that we haven't fully self-accepted. I moved back to Canada after graduating from Harvard in 2007. And I don't know if it's because of Canadian culture, but that word Harvard was not like a positive thing. It was like elitism, corporate,

you know, corrupt bankers. And like, you're obviously wealthy because the place is really expensive, et cetera. And so I hid it. H, hide. That's the first thing we all do.

If you look at the Book of Awesome and my blog, there's no mention of me even going there. I haven't, it's not even in my about the author. I didn't put my degree on my corporate email signature, you know, like everyone at work does. I was like, yeah, I call the humility, but it was really fear. So that's the first step. We go through hiding.

Okay. The second thing is apology. And so we start to release it into the world, but we do so in a way that's like dipping your toe in cold water off the end of a dock. It's like, hey, where'd you go to school? I used to say Boston, you know, and then I started saying, oh, you know, Boston area. Yeah. The Boston, the GBA. Yeah. And then I started saying, yeah, I went to a place, you know, Harvard and people would be like, oh yeah, I kind of heard that. And it was like an awkward little thing. And I made it awkward because I was apologizing for it. And there's some, you know, some great, you brought up Buddhism.

Like there's some great quotes that like, I wasn't accepting myself yet. I didn't allow them to be the holder and the keeper of all reaction. I was giving them a reaction. So H is hide, A is apologize. And the third A is accept. I finally accepted it. So you say, hey, where'd you guys go? Oh, I went to Harvard. Like you say it flat, you know, and then you allow the person you're talking to, to be the ultimate owner of it. And I think that HAA model of hiding and apologizing and accepting is the journey we all go on when we slowly become comfortable, whatever it is inside ourselves that we are of it. And I think that HAA model of hiding and apologizing and accepting is the journey we all

go on when we slowly become comfortable with whatever it is inside ourselves that we are searching to accept. You know, whether that's a physical part of ourselves or a way we look, you know, like I hide my big nose and this angle of my pictures. And then you're sort of like, well, that's just, I got a big nose. Like whatever it is that you got, it's like, we go, we all go through that. Yeah. We, we all just go through that. And I think in the book, what I'm trying to do is like, say, just, just, just think about that process and, you know, move, move yourself through it.

Everything's a practice. Yeah. I was interesting as, as we're having this conversation, I mean, literally just this morning, um, and I put an essay up on my blog yesterday. And in the comments section, one woman was talking about how, and it was about, the essay was about sort of needing to actually put yourself out into the world and make things happen. And she shared a comment, which was very personal, which was around her saying, you know, like over the last few years, she's actually had some major health issues, and she's very uncomfortable with her weight now.

She really wants to put herself out there, but she's upset about the people who haven't seen her, actually physically seen her in a room for a number of years now, and they're going to look. And so she's hiding because she's terrified. She's got beautiful gifts, I'm sure. I don't know her, but I'm sure she's got her wisdom and her brilliance and her beauty and her grace, whatever it is. But she's really hesitant to let that out and to let it touch people and matter because she's afraid of how it's going to land. I think we all do that. We all do that. And I have a secret called, how do you turn your biggest fear into your biggest success? And I share the story, Jonathan, about how like, I'm suddenly 30, 31,

32 years old, and I can't swim. Like I can't swim at all. I had ear infections my whole childhood, and I never, I got tubes. I never learned to swim. I told myself, maybe like this woman, I was like, I can't do it. And I don't want to do it. So I'm never going to do it. I told myself, maybe like this woman, I was like, I can't do it and I don't want to do it. So I'm never going to do it. I can't get past the capability and the motivation. So I can't get to the action. And for that woman and for me, that story I tell is like, well, Leslie told me she's a big swimmer. And I was like, I got to just sign up for adult swimming classes. And suddenly, if you put the action first, if you just do it, then the amazing thing is the action itself creates the perception that you can do it.

You're like, I can flutter board in the shallow and with a life jacket, like that's possible. And by the way, everyone else in my swimming class is from like landlocked countries or they had more traumatic experiences than I did. So we all sucked like trust forms pretty quickly. And then once you have that sort of capability,

you're like, now I want to do it. Next week, I'll flutterboard in the deep end. And the model for motivation is actually till the backwards. We think motivation leads to action. Actually, action leads to motivation. It's the flip of what almost all of us think. And I'm 36 now.

It's like, I know how to swim. I'm not a great swimmer, but you could, you could shove me into the deep end of the pool and I won't have a panic attack, which is what would have happened before. I would have, now I can be like, all right, just do a little front crawl. Like try to get to, I can, I feel confident. And that came after I forced myself to doing it. So for that person, it's like, just jump into it a little bit with that first person you are thinking about meeting. And that might tell you that you can do it. And that might tell you that you want to do it. Yeah, no, I love it. ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,

whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. January 24th.

Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. Of that, it's funny also, I have, there's a little bit of shame risk. a brand new student who's brand new yoga walked into the room, walked right up, put her mat down right in front of me. And within like 30 seconds, it was really clear that this, you know, I'm

thinking she shouldn't be in this class. You know, she's not ready. And at the first, you know, it's a safety thing and stuff like this, but then I realized she's, she was actually young, she's strong, she's fit, and she just had no experience. And then very quickly, like she kept coming back every day and, and her practice actually developed beautifully. And very quickly, like she kept coming back every day and her practice actually developed beautifully. And very quickly, my almost immediate judgment of somebody saying, well, you know, like she's not ready for this. Like it's reckless to be that person in the room because of the fact that she actually did it and then came back a few more times, I was like, this is amazing. Like what incredible, you know, just comfort and acceptance with herself, you know, and just a sense of like inner light to be able to just show up and say, you know, no, I don't have to actually, you know, do videos for three months at home before I'll go to the gym so that I'm like minimally fit because I don't want to be judged when I actually go there.

You know, she just walked up and said, this is me. Take it or leave it, man. And you know, it was, I always remember like starting out as the person who judged and like just

quickly having that like switch flat. And I'm like, wow, I'm an idiot. You know, this person is doing something which is hard and just like owning it. And that's beautiful. Yeah.

Well, what an incredible story and so transparent and the emotion that you felt, which is we all go through that. And we have to also be kind to ourselves, right? Because at the same time, I have those thoughts too. And then it's like, but then I remember I got a war going on in my own head, right? Like I got that survival kind of like amygdala thing kind of flashing you know it's like you said safety first right the first thought is like something's gonna happen and i'll get i'll get blamed i'm like an irresponsible teacher you know and the other part is saying okay seek out empathy and compassion and support.

And those two things fight in my own head. My brain's trained to find those problems. So of course I'm doing that. And then you can move past that. But recognizing that, of course, you're going to see issues. I mean, that's the way we're made. And I like the H-A-A, H-A-A, right? Yeah, H-A-A. Just laugh at it.

Just remember that. You just laugh at your own beards. I like that. So you end up essentially taking a whole bunch of ideas. And I guess partially through the emergence of what you went through, partially through the experience you had after writing, after creating the Awesome Things blog and then the books and all the travel and really doubling down on this sort of like idea of happiness and life. And like, what are the, you know, like what are the pieces of that puzzle, which has led to the creation of this, this latest book. And we've talked about some of the ideas in it. One thing which I find is really interesting, which seems to be a focus also is the idea of want. So take me into this a little bit.

Sure. Well, under the title of the book, we're looking at it right now, The Happiest Equation, the subtitle says, want nothing plus do anything equals have everything. And where did this come from? Well, I was lucky enough to be a guest speaker for like a summer camp for really kind of high achieving high school students in the summers with a large nonprofit in Canada. And so I'm going to these things, you know, I do this little session called like, you know, five rules to live a great life or nine secrets to living a happy life. Like I'm trying to give people like models and frameworks I'd learned in like my late 20s, but they're like 15 so I can share them. And at the end of the Q&A, I'm like expecting them to ask me questions like, well, how'd

you get into an Ivy League school? And, you know, what's the best way to like sort of make a six figure income? And their questions are nothing like that. Actually, their questions are about like, how do I reduce my anxiety? How do I balance work and my relationship with my partner? How do I manage my relationship with my partner who I love, but things aren't working out? But it's because I'm not giving them enough of myself. And like, there's these big, deep questions and these kids are like 15 to 17. So I'm like, I'm thinking, okay, times have changed since I went to this

program. I wasn't thinking, I was thinking, you know, I was thinking how you get to level eight in Mario three, you know, I was like, I'm not thinking that stuff. I'm like, how do I spin a Frisbee faster? Basics. Thank you for making me more active than I was. And so, and then I realized, you know, these kids, what they really are looking for is contentment and freedom. And if you look at all the, if you type in how to be into Google, the first dropdown says happy more than rich, which is number two. Pretty, which is number three.

And be a real estate agent, which is number four, which tells you a really strange glimpse on society. How to be happy is first in the exit surveys from universities these days are saying, you know, for the first time, students are looking for happiness more than they're looking for wealth. So the idea of want and want nothing is about contentment. And it's about the absence of desire. There's a Seneca quote I use, you know, for he that is rich wants nothing.

And the best way to greater wealth, and I'm using the broad sense of the word, isn't to have more, but actually to be comfortable with less. And if you combine that wanting of nothing, that contentment with the ability to do anything, which I equate with freedom, then those two things together, I believe, create a model for happiness, which I call having everything.

You can easily poke holes in those six words. Of course, any sort of thing that's brought down to three words or five words, you can do that with. And certainly people have said, well, I want to have hope. I want to have goals. You know, where does that fit in, buddy? You know, and I'm like, I'm trying to put forward a framework. And so that's why in the book, under each of those subheadings, I have three steps under each of them that help you get to the contentment, help you get to freedom, help you get to happiness.

And that's kind of where I came from. Yeah. Here's the inner dialogue as you're talking. And I focus back on my yoga study as well, where sort of like, you know, depending on the school of practice, desire is, you know, as close to the devil as you can get. But at the same time, the struggle that I have, and I'm curious how you feel about this, is that, and I think about like Thich Nhat Hanh, and where it's more like, you know're like, I have an amazing life. I have an amazing partner. I have amazing whatever it is.

I'm grateful and I completely acknowledge. I'm really content with that. And not but, but and I yearn to do, to create, to share, to elevate more. And can you hold those dualities simultaneously? Or does trying to hold them simultaneously in some way, is it possible to do that without decreasing how okay you are in the world in the moment? Wow. I mean, it feels like you're talking about enlightenment, you know, like an ability. I mean, that's why it's, you know, the good life project. We're all at the tip of the hierarchy, you know, Maslow's hierarchy.

You know, I mean, if people are lucky enough to listen to this, you've got the time, you know, you've got the desire to sort of, you know, not to use that devil's word, but like you've got the impetus. There's a good one. To want, you know, that good life for yourself. So it's a practice. Talking about it the way you just put it so eloquently, I think it's a good way to start that conversation. And one I don't have the answer to, but one I'm hoping to learn myself as I get older and hopefully wiser and continue to be kind of enjoying life and living it at the same time.

So you keep circling back to the word practice. I know what that word means in my mind and I know what my personal daily practice is. Take me inside that a little bit. Deconstruct what you actually mean by practice. Sure. Thanks for bringing that up because it's a word that I noticed like probably today or maybe yesterday. I was like, I'm using that word a lot. And I think the reason I'm using that word a lot is because to me, the word practice has a few definitions. One is it implies no end. It implies a bettering, a growth, an improvement. It implies effort, but doesn't imply result. So we talk about a yoga practice. It's nice at the end of when you do, you know, for me, I got the 10 pass to the place down

the street. I don't go enough. And at the end, they're like, how was your practice? And I'm like, I suddenly feel better because I didn't, I don't necessarily now think I should have like, you know, made sure I sweated a lot and really stretched out and got to a place of total mental calm. It was up. I'm practicing to do that. I'm getting a little bit better.

There is no end state. I'm comfortable with the growth that comes from it. Life is a practice. I think happiness is a practice. I think almost everything that we work towards in our entire lives, you know, I'm practicing being a dad. I hope to improve at it. I'm definitely not perfect, you know. And so I'm really becoming drawn to that word more and more because I find it enables me to improve,

but also disables my desire for perfection. Yeah. Similar thoughts from me. I mean, and that's a word that I've used a lot also. So it's, and what's interesting is, you know, having the opportunity to actually have a lot of just really great conversations. It's interesting that you've noticed yourself

sort of circling around that word a lot more too. It's been my experience that the word has come up, or it's coming up more and more in conversation too. I wonder if there's just something, some kind of zeitgeist going on around the idea of life as a practice. I know I've talked about entrepreneurship as a practice in the past because I truly do believe that it's a canvas for personal growth. And it is a practice. And I think the idea is powerful. I wonder if it's also a bit of an antidote. There's somebody I knew that was deep into the world of peak performance and expertise. Once shared something like, there's

that old line, practice makes perfect, but it's a lie. The truth is perfect practice makes perfect. but it's a lie. Like, you know, the truth is perfect practice makes perfect. And you're thinking, what is perfect practice? I know, I'm like, my mind is like, I'm trying to follow these little leaps. Right, I'm like, but isn't the fact that it's practice, like doesn't that automatically imply that it can't be perfect? But yeah, there is sometimes, I think when we think about practice, we put an expectation of even the practice itself has to be perfected.

And so it's like, you know, I've heard back when I was teaching, especially there were times where I would catch even other teachers or students kind of like saying, like, oh, I didn't have a good practice, you know, the other day or whatever it was. It's like, no, actually, it's not about what happened on the mat. It's about the fact that you showed up. Exactly. It's about increasing the value actually, it's not about what happened on the mat. It's about the fact that you showed up. Exactly. It's about increasing the value of the journey over the destination and the walk to school as much as school and the garden growing as much as the flower blossoming and the house new boyfriend as much as getting the final painting up on the wall after you settle in and trying to equate the way there with where you end up. No, no, totally agree. So right now we're hanging out in New York City in our little backyard studio.

Little means something totally different in New York. The door to my hotel bathroom hits the counter and doesn't close. I'm like, if I was here with a buddy, I'm having a shower with the door open. It does not close. It's like little in New York means something different. We live in tight quarters. No doubt. It's funny.

It's funny. We watch the House Hunter shows on TV. They're like, you can get this 5,000 square foot house for $132,000. That's a parking space in New York City, man. And that's going to an auction. Perspective. It's all about perspective. here. As you start to travel around, especially, and you're really evangelizing, putting the word out about the next

evolution of your focus and really deconstructing happiness and sharing it with individuals, with organizations. When you zoom the lens out, you're married, you got a kid, you're about to have another kid. So if I ask you the question at this point in your life, what does it mean to you to live a good life? What comes up?

And I knew you were going to ask that too. And I want to say a couple of things. One is I think of the values or the secrets that I espouse in the happiness equation frequently, partly because they articulated to me a value system I didn't know I had. But when Leslie told me she was pregnant and I said, I got to write a

letter to this unborn child, and that letter turned into this book, out of it came phrases like, be happy first. And as you mentioned, do it for you. And remember the lottery, you know, and never retire, but overvalue yourself. Create space in your life. These are the pithy little two or three word end points of the secrets in the book, but they also are becoming a bit of a spinal column for me to grow myself around. And so living a good life is about practicing to live those values. And when a book is launching, I think about the do it for your principle, and it becomes difficult, you know, because of all the external variables. And that, well, I hope they get, let me do another book, you know, and all these things start to pop into

your head. But using those, that spinal sort of value system helps me navigate myself. And so I'm living a good life when I can have lunch at home, sometimes, you know, not on the road or not in the cafeteria, when I can turn the light off on a Friday night and just fall asleep on the couch with my wife because the Netflix got, you know, hit the space bar and the glass of wine is kind of empty beside us and that's just a comforting little scene. A Good Life to me is one where we cheer my son so loudly when he uses

the toilet for the first time that he, the next morning is like so excited to run there for us to sort of get that ecstatic reaction again and like it's just the little things, man, you know, you know, it really just is. And so they say you're right for yourself. Right? At the end of the day, you write what you know, and you're right for the person, you know,

in my writing is the person I want to be as much as the person I am. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, thanks so much for listening to today's episode. If you found something valuable, entertaining, engaging, or just plain fun, I'd be so appreciative if you take a couple extra seconds and share it. Maybe you want to email it to a friend. Maybe you want to share it around social media. Or even be awesome if you head over to iTunes and just give us a

rating. Every little bit helps get the word out and it helps more people get in touch with the message. I'm Jonathan Fields, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest.

And Peloton has everything you need whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg.

You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him! We need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,

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