Good Life Project - Own Not Run | Shannon and Bryan Miles

Episode Date: September 14, 2020

Bryan and Shannon Miles fell in love when they were young, got married, started a family and each started building their own successful careers. But a series of unexpected experiences led them to re-evaluate what they wanted out of their lives, and the way they wanted to contribute. So they pretty much blew everything up and went out on their own, starting a new venture together with the goal of creating freedom, by building a company that helped others create freedom. Not a bad vision, right?Their passion is all about empowering small business owners and entrepreneurs to be more efficient as they achieve success in business (and in life). Having now generated more than $100M in revenue as the Co-CEO's of BELAY SOLUTIONS, a virtual staffing company, they graduated to Co-Chairs where they are stepping into a more educational role, sharing the Own Not Run philosophy that led them to build their own company. I was fascinated by their approach, since it’s always been a large part of my aspiration, too. To build something that truly mattered, while also doing it in a way that put family and flourishing at the center. Quick note, too, this conversion, like a few others we’ve recently released, was recorded in our studio in what we’ve now come to know as Before Times. We’d been holding it until it felt like a more accessible conversation, and with so many people now reflecting on how to create their own endeavors or build existing companies in a way that built freedom into the DNA, it felt like the right time to share it.You can find Bryan and Shannon Miles at:Website : https://ownnotrun.com/Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/belay_solutions/-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Shannon and Brian Miles fell in love when they were young, got married, started a family, and each started building their own successful careers. But a series of unexpected experiences led them to completely re-evaluate what they wanted out of their lives and the way they wanted to both earn a living and contribute to the world. So they pretty much blew everything up and went out on their own, starting a new venture together at what some might argue was the worst possible time. And you'll hear what we're talking about

in the conversation. With the goal of creating freedom by building a company that helped others create freedom, especially others who were in business. Not a bad vision, right? Their passion is all about empowering small business owners and entrepreneurs to be more efficient as they achieve success

in business and life. And having now generated more than $100 million in revenue as the co-CEOs of Belay Solutions, a virtual staffing company, they have graduated themselves to co-chairs where they're stepping into kind of a more of an educational role, sharing what they call their own not-run philosophy that led them to build their own company.

I was fascinated not only by their story, but by their approach to building businesses that are in service of both a bigger goal and vision, but also their desire to live life a very specific way. Since that has also always been a large part of my aspiration, and I imagine many of our listeners too, really to build something that truly matters while also doing it in a way that puts family and flourishing at the center. So quick note too,

this conversation, like a few of the others we have recently released, was originally recorded in our studio in what we've now come to know as before times. We've been holding it until it felt like a more accessible conversation. And with so many people now reflecting on how to create their own endeavors or build existing companies in a way that really builds freedom into the DNA of what

they're creating, it felt like the right time to actually share it with you now. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. It's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk.

The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X,

available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. My junior year, I met this lovely freshman that came in and I was googly-eyed immediately. You know, it was just like, wow, look at this girl. And it's interesting because we've worked backwards on our stories and we've actually intersected before we even knew it. No kidding. Yeah. Well, I used to pay the bills, I worked on a lawn care company that

basically did huge graveyards. And so I would trim headstones. And then there was this one place that he had this random account where there was assisted living next to a Ponderosa. Do you know what Ponderosa is? I do. Yeah. Yeah. And so there was this really like one time, this really beautiful girl in there that was working. I never talked to her and I'm almost convinced it was her. So you're outside trimming the hedges, like around. Yeah. We stopped, we stopped for lunch and I'm like, I couldn't keep my eyes off this girl. I didn't know who she was and didn't talk to her, but I'm like, I, she said this, I'm like, wait,

it's that one. I'm like, I, that's gotta be you. Cause. And I was the only person who worked there who was under like 35. So I just assume it was me. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't chasing older women. I was just like, she just stood out. I was 15 at that time.

Yeah. And so I worked there for two years. And during that course of time, I started dating a guy named John, really nice guy. He was a year older than me, a soccer player. Went off to college and met Brian. So John and Brian were friends, right? And once again, going backward in our timelines, we realized that when I was set up on my blind date with John, Brian was there. No kidding. No kidding.

I met him at the same time. Yeah. And it was cool. I mean, they had a, you know, they got to connect and everything was cool. There was no, you know, there's no friction or anything like that. And, you know, you respect a buddy that's going to go, you know, but I'm like, oh, she's cute, you know? And then, but then you guys just, it didn't work out.

Yeah, a nice guy it didn't work out. Yeah, a nice guy. It just didn't work out. So fast forward to 95 in the fall of that year. So I graduated from high school in the spring, went to school, 17 years old, move-in day. I see John again. I'm like, hey, John, how's it going? He's like, great. Hey, we're all going to go bridge jumping, which in this tiny town in Ohioio like what else are you going to you you're gonna jump off a bridge and and that's really where brian and i first connected even though we had you know met or seen each other

a couple times before and i just thought he was so cool i was like oh this guy from san diego he's a soccer player so cute i had my earrings in yeah Yeah, it is excellent. Blonde hair. Do you remember what kind of earrings there were golden hoops, but I had like, you know, fake blonde hair. It was longer. You know, I played the part. Uh, but I, so that the bridge that we're just, Shannon's talking about, it's a 20 foot high bridge that jumps into a moving river. And then there's one section you climb this old rickety thing up to 40 feet and jump in. And so I'm like, all right, I'm just going to go up to the, cause I'm not afraid of heights. I just went right up there. And I, all of a sudden I see her coming up and I'm like, oh, this is interesting. And so. Cause no girls were going up. I was like,

I gotta be the girl. And I mean, I was really attracted to her. So I just, she got up there and we were talking up there and I just said, Hey, I just want you to know if, if I don't make it, I think you're fantastic. I like you. And I just, I just jumped. He jumped. He left me up there. And I'm like, well, we'll see if this works. But on the way down, I hit the water so hard, my pants ripped. I wondered if you were going to tell him that. It was an uncomfortable moment for a few reasons.

So then I jumped after him and he had to leave because his shorts were so torn, like couldn't hang out anymore. And we just sort of hit it off from there and never looked back. Yeah, we've been jumping off things ever since. No kidding. That is amazing. I mean, it's funny. It's a funny moment. It's a funny moment. It's a cute moment.

And at the same time, it also says so much more about who you each are individually. Yeah. And also your willingness to sort of stand in your own identity and also step into the abyss. Yeah. Which is kind of amazing. So you end up dating. Eventually, I mean, clearly, it worked. It did.

When did you guys end up married? Two years in. So we got married in 97. So when you're still in school or like right around when you're about to graduate? No. So that same fall, my dad developed lung cancer. And for a few different reasons, I just didn't feel like it was right for him to help contribute with college. And cause the scholarship covered a certain amount, but the rest we need to cover.

It was a pretty expensive private school. And I just said, I'm going to go work full time and then figure out a way to go to school at night. And in that same time, I'm like, gosh, I feel like an adult. We should just get married. Was it that romantic when he proposed? It was just like that. Yeah.

Here's another bridge. Let's jump. I mean, really, we didn't date very long before we got engaged. It was only seven, nine months. Yeah. I mean, and we were young, right? So we got engaged in, I guess it was April. Of 96.

God, was it that fast? Dang. And then, but we, yeah, that, yeah, that's right. Because then we got married May of the following year of 97. And during that course of time my stepdad developed lung cancer too so for it was the craziest time ever for a year both of them right yeah had lung cancer and they died in 99 and 2000 respectively like a year exactly a day i mean one year to the day. Yeah. It was surreal. So the first couple of years of our marriage were really hard for so many reasons. We were so young, we were finishing school. He was working full time. I was working part time. Our dads were sick. We were worried about our moms. We had, you know, taken on all of our college financial responsibilities.

And it was a really rough go. Yeah. I had a college advisor that I could afford basically like low-income housing. And I was in between jobs. And I just was broke. I was just trying to make it work. And I think we were engaged at that point. And this really great couple, Clint and Colleen,

they basically came to the door with a bag full of groceries, like a whole thing, and just brought them in and filled my fridge up and pantry, and I was like, that's the most kind thing. And humble, I was humbled by it too. But it really touched me so much. It meant the world to me that they were just meeting a practical need that i had i was hungry and i didn't have much money you know and uh you know that's basically you know i i could see how her mom and dad would be like you know what's so special about this guy you know uh but yeah, it was just a really hard time, you know?

Yeah. I mean, I'm wondering also, Shannon, it's a hard time emotionally, I mean, with also experiencing illness in someone you love and then loss, but also financially. Were you also, because you have this other layer of seeing your parents pushed to the point of almost separating in no small part because of the financial constraints. Would your mind go into that same place at all at that time with you guys? Yeah, I guess it was. Because we graduated in 99 and had like $50,000 worth of debt. Yeah. We were totally saddled in student debt. Yeah. You know, and this was, you know, we're making a lot of money in 99, you know,

we graduated with our degrees. And so it was, it felt like a big elephant sitting on our chest of responsibility and debt. And we continued sort of in that mode of spending beyond our means and trying to establish our careers, but taking on too much credit card debt for the first- Couple, three years. Yeah. Even after our move to Atlanta. And I think it was at that, we hit a point where we started realizing the effect that poor financial decisions were having on our relationship. It was the source of all the fighting.

It was a source of all the stress. It was, you know, we were like, this has to change. We can't continue in this place without ultimately reaching the faith that my parents almost reached. So we didn't want that for ourselves. in this place without ultimately reaching the faith that my parents almost reached. So we didn't want that for ourselves. We really got serious about getting our finances straight and getting out of debt. And coupled with the fact that I had got laid off from a job and it was,

you know, I try to forget about that part too. We finally felt like we were making a dent, making some progress. And then kind of the, the, the dot bomb era kind of, you you know came and went and i was working for a software company that you know just it was one of the things and it's good money but then it just evaporated you know and and here i was now and she had fortunately a really good job i'm working for a large fortune 10 company and um i just was i was just in a crap situation. I don't know how to say it. You know, it's like, man, you know, you, you, and especially when you're a young guy,

you, you, you wrap a lot of your worth around your job and providing for your family. And, and, uh, it was really hard, but we, we just decided that we were going to prioritize giving. So I took unemployment from the state of Georgia and we just decided that we would give a certain percentage of that away. We started tithing. Tithing. And we just said, okay, well, we can't do like 10% and like that, but we can start with 2%. And we were just consistent. And it started, I can't, it's hard to explain, but we just started, debt just started to be erased. Like we just got priorities right. We started giving, saving, and then living on the rest.

Yeah. So give, save, live. And we've taught these principles to our kids as well, is that you give right away, you save right away, and then you live off the rest. And you decide that we'll give you some suggestions on those percentages. And we just reoriented how we spent our money. And we still hold true to that today. And like the first amount of a distribution goes straight out to giving. Do you remember, Brian, like, I know there was a metric, like we had a certain amount of debt

and then it took us a certain amount of time to pay that off once we implemented this. Do you remember? It was four years and it was about $80,000, which, you know, it was quite a bit of money back then. It's quite a bit of money back then. It's quite a bit of money now. Yeah. I mean, it's really interesting also because I've had conversations with people a number of times over the years where the line of reasoning kind of goes, when I get to this place where I have enough access, that's when I'll start to, you know, like whether you call it tithe, philanthropy, donation, just, you know, whatever it is, like I'm going to take a bit of money and give it here. And what's interesting is, and I will look, I'm never going to shame

or blame anybody for the choices that they make. And some people are in such genuinely dire financial straits that is quite literally impossible, at least from a financial standpoint. But I always do find it curious where I think that number for a lot of other folks is the equation is different. And the research around giving is kind of fascinating, which shows not only just somebody who receives from another person or entity would ever benefit, but there's this phenomenon called the giver's glow, where psychologically,

there's something that shifts physiologically and psychologically within you. And if you are somebody who's inclined towards spirituality or metaphysics or whatever it is, you may also believe that extends out into something else as well. But it is interesting to note that even the smallest little thing, even if it doesn't have to be money, it can be service, it can be a tiny little act, it can be like the smallest gesture, it helps somebody else, but it also, it flips a switch in you. Because it starts to change your identity. And that starts to make you behave in like a thousand microscopic ways differently in the world. And people perceive that and you differently. It's amazing to sort of like see how that whole chain reaction unfolds.

It changes the posture of your heart. You know, like whatever your faith is or if you don't have one or whatever, just you communicate what you value by where you give and where you not only with your money, but your time, like you communicate what you value in that. And so for us, we value all sorts of things that we now give to, not just with money, but with time too. So those are the greatest indicators of your, of a person's heart and where they're trending is those things. And so we've just felt very fortunate to be in a position like that. And it really has impacted the posture of how we approach life. We stopped fighting about money too. It was a healing change in our relationship.

Truly. And I don't think we knew at the time what getting our finances straight would enable us to do down the road. It just felt like we had to make a change then in that moment. And that was the right thing to do. But the truth is if we had not made those hard decisions and started giving and saving and then living off the rest and really get out of debt, we would have never been able to start the company that we did in 2010 ever so so it takes you four years you guys finally get to sort of like neutral um shannon you're still working in certainly the health care biz yeah um and ryan are you what are you up to then i uh i took a very interesting job i was in sales for a company that built and renovated churches around the U.S.

And it's like a 40-year-old company. And it just made sense for me. And I did that until I got promoted. And I oversaw 10 guys. I did about $40 million a year in sales. So you both get to a point where not only is the ship righted, but things are starting to get pretty good. Yeah. Things are solid. You both have solid careers. You're working. It sounds like you like the work

you're doing. You become parents, two little kids. And it sounds like that becomes the real inflection point for a pretty radical change in the way that you chose to earn your living. Yeah. So in 2000, I joined McKesson, which was the medical software company you mentioned. I started out in legal there, moved into sales and was like finally in the territory that I had worked to get to. Loved it. Loved my job so much. And so got out of debt, cruising along. Hey, let's have a baby. Wouldn't that be great? Let's just, things are great. Let's just throw a baby. Wouldn't that be great? Let's just, things are great. Let's just throw a baby into the mix. And the plan was to, you know,

go back to work. I was selling, he was selling. We loved our jobs. Never imagined not working. We'll get a nanny. That'd be great. And the pregnancy was good with Rainy up until a point. And then I had to be on bedrest and, you know, we had some complications, nothing long-term. She's fine. But during my maternity leave, which I was very fortunate to have three months, we found our nanny and, you know, implemented the plan. And then I went back to work and I was like, oh, I didn't think I was going to love this baby as much as I do. Like, ouch, my heart. And we tried

to sort of settle in knowing a lot of it was probably just like postpartum and all the things, you know, but even after about four months of being back to work, it just became clear that this situation was not sustainable. I couldn't travel. He couldn't travel, you know, both being out of the house, brand new baby with a nanny for us. It just, it wasn't going to work. Yeah. So that really, that was a really difficult decision, but I felt like in, in that season, an opportunity opened up for me at McKesson that I wanted to pursue, which was more of a part-time role that I thought I would just, you know, eventually just stay home. You know, I could phase out my job and finish well and be a stay-at-home mom, even though, honestly, I never

wanted to stay at home. I just didn't want to work as much. So I would have loved to have found like this part-time in-between thing that lasted, but I didn't think that was going to be possible. So this was 2005 when she was born. So I ended up being able to negotiate this part-time role and thought it would be temporary. And it kept working for thetime work at home, part-time in the office role that became the model that we used when down the road, we decided to start our organization. It was really that structure that said, hey, there's other people who need to have more flexibility and freedom in their jobs, too. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum.

Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday, we've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is?

You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. Those six years modeled for you how you felt in a particular role. And also, I'm guessing, you know, like the light bulb goes on. Well, if I feel this

way, how many thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of other people, you know, like feel this way too, and would love to have some sort of similar situation. But at the same time, you're still a young married couple with two kids now raising a family. So you do the logical next move, which is both quit your jobs. Yeah. At the height of the Great Recession, no less. So tell me how this happens because that's a big decision, again, against the backdrop like your financial history and your family's financial history so in early 2010 by that point i was on the management team at that company i was literally on six to eight flights a week oh wow the kids were two and five and i just didn't

i wasn't home much you know and i just didn't feel like a responsible father coupled with the fact that that spring on a vacation I had read Made in America, it's the story of Sam Walton. And, you know, he started Walmart when he was 38 and I was 35, you were 32. And we're like, I feel like, you know, if there was a time that we were going to do something, it's, it's kind of got to be now because we're gonna get comfortable in careers. And, you know, and it was just this inflection point of like, we need to probably consider something. So, and we'd always talked about, yeah, and we, we should have our own business someday. We should start something of our own. Yeah.

Not really knowing what that should be. But I had this idea, you know, um, you know, the four hour work group was a wonderful book and it pointed to these virtual assistant solutions that are all overseas. And yet I looked at my assistant who was in Charlotte and then me in Atlanta. I had a virtual assistant already. And I'm like, this seems like this could work for other people. And I was very networked around churches in the country. And I'm like, I know a lot of pastors that could do this.

It just seemed like it could be a thing. And so we, in that summer, we just decided we were going to make a go of this after doing due diligence. We asked a lot of really successful business people, hey, this is what we were thinking. Our family and our friends thought we were nuts. Unemployment was 9.6%. We were going to leave jobs that easily equaled $250,000 of income for us. Healthcare. Right. And this is a year after the worst year in the U.S. economy since the Great Depression. That's exactly right. But anybody that was successful in business, they were like, yeah, you should do it.

It was just counter to what we knew and the folks we loved. We were just like, okay, so literally October 1st of 2010. Which is my birthday, by the way. Within an hour of each other, we walked in and gave notice to our employers. That was planned, I'm assuming. Yes. Yeah. I called her.

I'm like, hey. Are we really doing this? Is it a go? Let's go. Okay, let's do it. So we worked really hard to finish well because we needed our jobs back. You know, if this didn't work out. out, she was on payroll for another 60 days. I wrapped up in about 45 days.

And so December 1st of 2010 was our first day of our new company. What's that like for you? Well, first, explain what this company is. Because Shanna, you kind of hinted at, okay, so you identified this need based on just the way that you were living and what you saw was possible. And yes, there's got to be a lot more people like me, but tell me, tell me more about what this actually, what the idea is. Initially, we started offering a couple of things, virtual assistance, which is still our largest offering now, domestic virtual assistance and bookkeeping, which is still another huge part of our business today. And then we tried some other things that were super niche-y to the

church space that didn't work, but that's business. You try some things that work, you try some things that don't. So we fractionalized the model basically and wanted to provide a service that met a need that we couldn't find in the other organization meeting at the time. So really helping people know how to work well with remote staff and teaching them how to delegate well and how to, you know, layering on some account management that even then, you know, 10 years ago and to this day sort of could set us apart from some other players in the space. So that's essentially what Belay is now.

And I just remember feeling like, I think there's something here. I hope there's something here for this. But if not, at least we tried. At least we took the risk and made the effort and made it a go. I just kept thinking during that season of time where I was so scared but so excited that I lived in a trailer before I could live in a trailer again. And as long as we're good and our kids are good, it's fine. It's worth the risk. Yeah. We gave it a shot.

And the other part of this too is that not only did we leave nice jobs on the same day, we cashed in our 401ks, all of our life investments to do this. So you were all in it ever since. We're truly, yeah. We pushed the chips on the table. You know, and it, I mean, looking back, it's like, man, that feels reckless. But at the same time, like we were desperate for change. Like we were ready, you know, and we, you know, we like, okay, if it doesn't work out,

then we'll just climb back out of the hole. Like, let's do this. And if 2010, you came to both of you now and, and offered up this idea, what would you tell them? Oh, I'd, I'd high five them. I mean, because it really, it's not only then, it's all the more now is meeting an incredible need in the market to help leaders scale their businesses with really great people around the country. And I thought it was a good idea. I know it's a good idea now. And it has been insanely rewarding to have somebody that maybe works in

a rural part of our country, have a meaningful job of employment working with a Fortune 100 company in Chicago. Or some really cool person that lives in Northern California works with an executive director doing something meaningful for a nonprofit, serving them a virtual assistant or helping a business that's small with their bookkeeping needs so they can stay focused on growing their company. You know, it's just, it's been so rewarding to see the stories of how we actually serve our customers and then also helping people have really great employment around the country. Yeah. It's been really interesting to see. You brought up this, you brought up Tim's book, you know, the Florida Workweek with he's about a dozen years old now and still in hardcover.

It's amazing. I know, Tim, the author of me is so jealous of that one thing. It's like, my books go to softcover in a year. Boom, done. But that was this point of inflection. There were a couple of major memes that came out of that, but one of them was this idea of outsourcing and the idea of virtual assistants. Like you said, a lot of people looked overseas for that. I feel like over the last decade, over the last dozen years, that's gone from this fringe idea to this fairly mainstream idea.

You have in your company now over what, over a thousand people? Yeah. So you're given work. You're basically helping to put food on the table and the roof over the head for a thousand different people while also connecting people who can essentially help each other. So you've built something really big. The numbers that you share are something like over a hundred million dollars in revenue generated by the company. Yeah. Lifetime revenue. Right. What I'm also curious about is having both grown your own company to this size over 10 years

and you're in the business where it gives you a window into the operations, the mindset, the amazing good things that happen in other organizations from solo practitioners to big companies, the disasters, the debacles, the delusions. I'm really curious. So the entrepreneur in me is, okay, so I have two people in the room who have seen so much. You have a shared data set, which is like I'm kind of salivating at the possibility of tapping. But let me keep it, so let me just ask a few questions about that because I'm really curious.

You're like, when, and maybe you can even frame it in two ways. Like when you started, we all tend to, everybody starts a business with a certain amount of fact and a certain amount of assumption. And the assumption side of things, often within there,

there's a subset, which is outright delusion. When you look at your own journey and you look at so many of the people you've worked with now, I'm curious, what are the common patterns that you see sort of like popping up in that realm? Well, I mean, for me, I sold every single contract for the first 18 months of our company's history. And then I've obviously, I'm a sales guy at heart, so I pay close attention to what prospects want. But most of them are hitting the lid of their personal capacity, whatever that is. They could be an executive in a big company. They could be a startup. They could be working in a nonprofit, whatever those things are. But they've hit this personal lid, and they cannot seem to get past it, and they keep bumping up against it.

So they realize, okay, this is now more than me. Now what? How in the world do I delegate? And what we've seen historically is most leaders just, they've just not been taught how to delegate, how to get out of the way of themselves and start to meaningfully give away aspects of who they are as a leader to other people so they can foster that. So we've taught that as we've gone, we've built in an account management layer in our business with our folks that teach these principles to leaders. And they go, wow, this is new news to us.

We didn't even know how to begin the topic of delegation. And so it's hitting a little bit of the personal capacity, I think, as a biggie that we see. Yeah. Do you feel like part of that challenge is that we aren't realistic about where that live exists? Yeah, I think so. I think a lot of business owners start with a great idea and then sometimes it takes off and grows very quickly and the need for resources becomes really apparent.

But there's a transition that has to happen from just adding resources to your team to really leading an organization. And I think that changes how you delegate and what you delegate and what your meetings look like and, you know, what your strategic plans are for growth. I think that evolves over time, but I think a lot of leaders struggle with knowing even where to find great people that they can trust. And then once they find great people they can trust, it's like, okay, can I really trust them? And they have to validate incrementally along the way. Like, I'm going to give you this.

And if this goes well, then I also have that that I can give you. And it's really helping them find great resources, learn to trust and build on onto it from there. Yeah. And you have to own the fact that you are not actually capable of doing what you think you're capable of doing. Because I think we all just were like, oh yeah, like I can handle more than that. Nor is it wise because your time and your energy is worth something, you know, and you shouldn't be doing all of the things to run your business. There are other people who can come in for a lot less than it would cost you to do it with your own time.

And you can offload those things to them. And they love doing it. And they can do a lot faster and often a lot better than you could. Yeah, the real simple idea is this last fall, I said, I'm the guy who made about a million bucks a year. And I said, I want you to divide that by 2080, which is like a full-time job. And he goes, okay. And I go, that's basically what you're paying somebody to book your travel for you, which is you when you do it yourself. And he's like, oh my gosh. Do you like booking your travel that much? He's like, no, I don't.

And so there's somebody out there that can do it for 40 bucks an hour. And it's just taking that number that you make on an annual basis divided by 2080. And you're like, oh, I wouldn't pay that. But they just like to do it. And there's this really interesting thing we've witnessed over the years where the reason why a leader holds on to certain things is because they get a sense of completion that they otherwise never get in their day-to-day because they're solving problems that are nine months in the making and they never feel like they've solved anything. So if they can get that airline ticket or mow their yard or whatever that thing is, they feel like this

dopamine hit of like, I finished something. I checked a box today. Yeah. And so that drives them to do these little things that they don't, they just need to fight and resist that urge. Right. Okay. So I get that. And because I felt it many, many, many times. But at the same time, I do feel like we have a need to have that feeling. Sure. So the need to feel like we're actually, we're completing something and something that's meaningful to us, right?

That's not going to go away. So even if you were able to, and I've experienced this personally, I will continue to experience this because I'm still learning the lessons and I have worked with and seen this unfold in so many other people. We still have that need. So even if you find amazing people to bring in who are so much better at these granular things that we're doing along the way. So we're handing off all of these opportunities for us to get the completion hit. So how do we continue to get it ourselves? How do we reorient?

What's the mindset shift that we need to make so that we can continue to get that? I think you just have to imagine what else you could be doing with that free time. It's not like you won't be able to check anything off your list, but maybe there's this group of tasks that you do all the time that if offloaded to somebody else, you could free up your energy to create something new or start something different or do something personally for yourself that isn't work-related that you could still get that completion, that satisfaction of checking off the box. One of the greatest things that I've seen through Shannon and I just delegating aspects of our role to other people is that we accomplish just much more. It's a factor of so many, I can't even put a number on it. And so we achieve a lot every day through giving up ourselves to others so that they

can do those things. And I'm convinced that we've been able to scale to the level that we have in our business over 10 years by just deciding daily, we're going to let other people do it. We're going to empower them. We're going to resource and equip them and just get out of their way. There's no way Belay would be where it is today without that mindset. For sure. No way. Yeah.

And I guess you also, like a part of this equation also that i know is often struggled with is is the idea that there exists a person out there who somehow is wired to wake up in the morning and love the work that you hate to do like i think when we think about that we're like how is it even possible that that person exists? I mean, how can anybody like this type of, I'm that way with bookkeeping. Yeah. Me too. I'm like, there are so many really hard things that I love to do that people look at me and they're like, that's evil. How could you love to do it? For me, I like a bookkeeping. I'm like,

okay, so I know how I feel about this. And then you find people and they're like, they just love it. They light up. It's a puzzle. And it's all about figuring out. And it's organizing and systems and processing created orphan chaos. I think part of the thing that gets in our way so often too is we can't conceive of the fact that people really do love to do the things that we don't like. I love that you said that. We say that all the time.

Just because you hate doing it doesn't mean that somebody else doesn't love it. That's a key reason why you should give it away to somebody else because it's an energy drain on you, and it's probably not the best and highest use of your time. We get about 2,000 resumes a month right now for our team to call through. And I mean, just that alone, there's just people that like this type of work. And it's meaningful work, especially when they're working for a leader that's doing meaningful things. Not only can they do their work, but they can tie that off to a result that's bigger than them. It's so rewarding for folks like that. Yeah. It's a really interesting point because especially in the context of what you're both doing, because you zoom the lens out and somebody could take a look at the company that you built and say, it's a staffing company. Yeah. Right. You know, like, yes, you know,

like you're generating a lot of revenue, you're employing a lot of people. And, but at the end of the day, this is not big purpose-driven work. This is not a big meaningful thing. It's a staffing company. You're filling a basic B2B need. And you brought up this idea of if it's meaningful work. So often, I think you can take something like this and not understand that underneath it, there are ways to layer in this really profound sense of meaning in what you're doing that

gets you past this just showing up and generating a certain amount of revenue and selling a certain amount of accounts. We always say we do not work with widgets. We work with people. And we're actually having a positive impact on people's lives, whether it's the contractor that we're working with that would not have otherwise been able to find a job because her husband's in the military and they're moving all the time. Or it's the client who his marriage is on really thin ice because he swallowed up with his career and building his business and he hasn't been able to take his wife on a date in six months. We feel like the work that we do matters in both those scenarios. And we have so many stories of true life change, which sounds dramatic and I don't mean for it to, but it's true. Life change that has been experienced by finding an opportunity that works for both sides for for somebody to provide the

service of being an assistant or a bookkeeper and somebody to receive the help and the benefit and the freedom that that comes along with that on the on the client side and it it's important like the name belay means something to us like a rock climbing belay right i i climbed for a bunch of years okay so you get it, right? For those who don't know, it has a very specific meaning and context. It's basically the one that's in a support role serving the one that's climbing higher. And I climb, and so I know what that means to be on belay and to have somebody that really has got your back.

And it's risky when you're in the lead climb position and you know that somebody's got that rope and it's going to, you know, yank on it or, you know, hold tight when you slip. And a lot of these folks, you know, that are out there in their life and they're climbing their career or they're starting this new company or whatever it is, we serve in a support capacity to them in a very meaningful way. And so, you know, while we've had great success and we could talk metrics and all that with our team, we talk about stories. Stories are important and they care about that because they wrap their heart around, yeah, this is what Collectively Belay is doing. And it's, it's just very meaningful for us as owners, but also for the folks that are there working. Tell them the story about the client that we met at the Entree Leadership Summit and came in and talked with us during the, how to work with a virtual

assistant session. Yeah. So there's a really great guy. His name's Jason. He's a kind of an IT company owner in Montana and overweight at the time. Doctor pretty much said, Hey buddy, you're going to have to, you're going to have to square up here. Your blood work does not look good. You got to get this in line. And you're working too much. And so he basically took that as a shot across the bowel. And he went out and researched, OK, how do I do this?

How do I start to give things up? And he came across our company. And through yielding things up, through delegating well, through being intentional through those things with a really great assistant. And allowing his assistant to hold him accountable to some of the goals that he was setting for life change. And she's in New York, he's in Montana. And so it just works. And he basically, he lost a ton of weight and he'd be the first one to tell you. And he did this actually for us in front of about 400 people at a breakout. He's like, your service actually

changed my life. And so when we say like life change, like it really is happening in front of us. And it's so cool because do you remember that first time, like when you flew coach and you got bumped the first class, you know, like once. Yeah. Okay. So you remember that though, that moment you're sitting up there and you have leg room and like people, it's like, you know, people playing fiddles and it's just crazy, right? You're ruined. And that's exact same thing that happens when you have a really great assistant. When your realtor shows you like the house that's just outside of like your actual window first. Yes. You're ruined, right?

It's the same thing, though. So when you find a really great assistant and it works, you're just, you're ruined. You're like, oh, I actually get it. This is a better way for me to lead. Yeah. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even

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Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot if we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk So you found this way to build on this early experience that Shannon had and create a really interesting company that's flourishing in every possible way. You've been in business about 10 years now. Yeah. You personally. So business is not always easy. Even when you're

in the business where you're the people who are supposed to understand how to delegate, how to create systems, how to scale. When you're building your own business, entrepreneurs are notoriously bad at following their own advice. I'm curious. Again, I'm raising my hand here, having been through a number of companies. I'm curious over this sort of season, where have you stumbled in building your own vision? It took me like six months for me to have my own assistant in our own company of selling assistants. Like, yeah, I think there definitely have been seasons where it's been tempting to hold on to something because I feel like I can't afford to turn this over yet. Or, you know, we haven't quite reached that critical mass, but we've just tried really hard to hire ahead of the actual needs that the company would have an opportunity to grow into that. I mean, some of my personal boundaries, you know, like limits to my leadership have come in the seasons of highest growth. I think growth can

be as detrimental to a business as decline. What comes to mind when you think of that? Oh man, I hit this existential crisis probably like three years into the business where it was really taking off and we were adding on team members and getting a little bit of exposure. And I just, I had imposter syndrome so bad. Like I was back to that little girl in the trailer. I was like, this should not be my business. This should not be my opportunity. I am not enough. I am not worthy of this. Somebody else, you know, I'm living somebody else's life. And it was a, it was a really weird time for me because I had never felt that. I always felt like I had pushed myself beyond my comfort zone before and been able to rise to the occasion, but for whatever reason, I just hit this, this space where I just felt

completely inadequate. And, um, business ownership can be kind of lonely sometimes too. And we're fortunate to have each other in it and that helps a lot, but you know, there are some gaps that Brian can't fill for me and vice versa. Were you comfortable sharing that with Brian when you were going through it? Oh yeah. I watched her navigate it, you know, and not a whole lot. I can, you know, I can support her and love her. Things are encouraging during that time, but I had to believe it for myself. Yeah. You know, was there something you did or, or practiced or, or person you went to that,

that helps you sort of like shift your mindset in that window. Yeah. I, um, and talking with, you know, my best friends, my roommate from college about it, she said, I really think you need to read Brene Brown's gifts of imperfection, right? Like I know it's so, but at the time it was not very old and it was, um, exactly what I needed to read to know that it was okay for me to be in this position, to know that I was growing as a person as much as I was growing as a leader, as much as the company was growing. They all had to work together. And I took the book and my Bible and journal and I went to a coffee shop outside of my town because I didn't want anybody to see me ugly crying as I was working through all of this. And I journaled a lot during that time. And I went and saw my counselor and she probably said all the same stuff Brian said to me, but I listened to her and, you know, I basically just had to settle into my identity with where I

was, you know, in my role at the company. Yeah. And I've seen that happen so many times. I've experienced it. And I feel, I think the interesting thing to me is also that those thresholds never go away. Like you just know, maybe it's been years, but at some point another one is coming. May not be the exact same thing. But it's like everything's stable. Everything is great. And you start to feel like, oh, I know everything that's knowable. And then there's like you wake up the next day and it's like, I know nothing.

Yeah. You get your rug ripped out from underneath you. Yeah. It's like you loop around to these points over and over again. And you have to expand as a person to expand your organization. Yeah. Isn't that one of the huge lessons that we have to keep coming back to? We keep looking outside.

And granted, you can do all sorts of great things outside of yourself, but fundamentally you will always hit that ledge where there's nothing else to do outside. That's the unlock key. And whatever the next round of outside stuff to do is not going to become available to you until you personally, you know, or interpersonally figure out, okay, so how do I get myself to this next place? But we don't like that. But it's a billion percent true. And I've seen it more than just me.

Brian and I have had the privilege of mentoring other business owners in a really intimate setting over the years. And we've seen it in other leaders too. It's a gift of leadership. Yeah. Brian, have you experienced anything similar? Yeah. Brian, have you experienced anything similar? Yeah. You know, in our relationship and in our business,

I'm the rubber meets the sky and she's the rubber meets the road, you know? And so I'm constantly out casting vision and this is where we should go. And I got to a place, it was in 2016, where I pretty much broke Shannon and pretty much our company because we were changing so much. And fortunately it did pay off in the long run, but it was very hard to take so many people through a change that was so abrupt. So I've learned a lot about pacing of change. While I can embrace change, let's just go and let's just do it I also needed to learn as a leader that this change affects a whole organization of people and it impacts its

brand and it impacts you know the market and so that that to me was actually a pretty hard thing to navigate once I realized like hey slow down like you can't this thing is of size now you just can't you're not you know you're not it's not you and shannon just you know switch on a dime like you there's so many lives at stake and so you've that was a that was an aha moment for me that i i needed to be wise with how we navigated change in our company yeah it's like the boat analogy right if you take a 19 foot ski boat and try it on a dime you know you take a 2 000 foot long and it's it's not happening though um you know it's a whole different world um but when the person who's steering that that ship is personally capable

of that sort of like mass and fast disruption can be really frustrating for you to be personally ready, but know that you're going to have to wait months, maybe years to move a lot of other people through a process in a way which is humane to them. Yeah. And it's so insanely frustrating as the entrepreneur in me. Yeah. I love building things and just go, what's taking so long? And I'm realizing, well, there's a lot at stake. And, you know, I've matured too in my leadership and really, frankly, as a husband through that experience. Yeah, which was my other curiosity because you are, you know, you're moving through this not just as business partners, but life partners and parents. Yeah.

So everything is all together, all at once. How do you, as a couple, as partners in life, how do you navigate keeping that relationship sacred while simultaneously being honest and doing the things you need to do from a business standpoint, supporting each other? Because that is a really hard dance. My wife and I have been in business together for many years through different iterations in different companies. And even before that, when she was in a larger company, she would hire me to do certain work for them. So we've been doing this dance for a really long time.

And a lot of people have looked at us and they're like, how do you even do that? Like, wait, you literally see each other all day, every day. Yeah. And you're working from home too, right? Yeah. Right. I mean, our team is remote also. So like, this is our office. I'm curious how you do that dance just personally. I'm curious how you do it too. You know, we have always from the beginning wanted our work and our lives to be fluid. You know, that's part of the reason we took the leap and started our company is that we wanted autonomy and freedom. We wanted to work hard, but we were really comfortable even early on

integrating all of it from working from home to not setting boundaries of these are our work hours, these are our family hours, but we lean much more toward integration than we do separation. That said, there have definitely been some really stressful seasons in the business where it's like, I can't talk about it one more minute. So let's just sit down and watch TV and remember that we're married. We'll have those times. But honestly, they're few and far between. And they're usually around really big, stressful decisions that we have to make in the business. Yeah, I think for us, we're not doing business for the sake of business.

Our long-range vision is a great marriage. So we're aiming at something that's way beyond these businesses that we have. They're vehicles for our family success, but we're aiming at a great marriage. And we have this idea, we've actually put imagery around it of us being on the beach in our 70s and 80s. We still like each other. We're having fun with each other. Our bodies are in good shape, so we can enjoy those parts of marriage and all that that comes with it. And then our kids are adults at that point, and they're well-adjusted adults, and they're contributing to society.

And that's what we're aiming at. And so these things in the moment, these decisions, they're important. And we need to make good, wise next decisions. But what we're aiming at ultimately is a great marriage. And that's kind of how we look at that. So when a decision comes up, we're like, does this prop up or does this support the vision we have for us as a couple? Yeah.

Do you, have you instituted any non-negotiable practices? It's funny. I had years ago when we were actually, we started out filming this show and we're out in Colorado actually sitting down with Brad Feld, who's a VC. And for a while, his life was,

he was just maniacally, every waking hour was bound up in what he was doing. He was traveling around, helping companies. And he realized that his first marriage fell apart. And he loved his wife, his current wife, and he didn't want that to end. And they sat down together one morning, and they made these commitments to do two things. I think they called it like three minutes in the morning, no matter what. And she literally said to him,

she's like, you had three minutes, right? You can give me that. Right. It's like, come on. And then once a month they would do these things that they call life dinners where they would go to a restaurant, they would get a bottle of wine, they would just sit there for hours off and they would exchange gifts a restaurant, they would get a bottle of wine, they would just sit there for hours off and they would exchange gifts, sometimes big gifts, sometimes just something that lets you know, I was thinking about you. And they would talk about life and their relationship and their dreams and their visions and their struggles. Sometimes it was fine and they would laugh. Sometimes there were a lot of tears, but that became sacred. And Brad, even knowing that his business life

would sometimes go seasonally bonkers, he had something like an 18% carve out where he could miss a certain percentage of this because they pre-planned it. But I thought it was a beautiful, really thoughtful, okay, so what are we committing to that is sacred that will make sure that this vision that you've just described for your marriage is the paramount thing stays sacred? I'm curious whether there's anything like that that you found in your life that are sort of like these repeated rituals or things that you commit to. We have monthly dates. Some of it is during a trip. Not a business trip, but like a Brian and Shannon. Just a couple trips.

Just get out and go. And some of it's just, you know, when we're home. And most Wednesdays we'll have lunch family calendar, upcoming events or travel that we have planned or talk about work at that time. Not that that's the only time we could talk about it, but it's like carved out for it. And then with regard to our kids, so our daughter right now is 14. Our son is 11. And about a year, I guess it's been about a year now, a year ago, we read Three Questions for a Frantic Family by Pat Lincione, which is

basically taking the principles from The Advantage and applying them to your family. And so we, you know, for a two to six month span, we'll have a family rally cry. So it's like, what are we all aiming toward as a family? And what makes the Miles family unique? So we have a mantra that we'll, you know, we've created and we'll review. We're such nerds as I'm saying this. Like, this is the most nerdy thing ever. I'm sorry.

Well, it is, but our kids love this as much as I do. And then, and then under that we have our defining objectives. What are the things that each member of the family contributes to our rally cry? And it, and it gives, and we meet about it, you know, maybe 30 minutes every other Sunday. So it's not a real intensive time, but it is a time of alignment for our family. You know, are we, are we doing what we said that we were going to do? Are we all working toward the same goal? So I think between all of those things, it really helps create some rituals that remind us, like Brian said, of our ultimate vision and enables the business to be a

good vehicle and a conduit toward that, but not consume our lives. I love that. Such amazing modeling for the kids too. I mean, both to watch how you are committed to these things and also be a part of it. It's like, hey, this is not just us professing, like this is the way things are, but we're like, let's all be a part of this. Like you contribute, you have a voice in this. And also a sense of, if you make a commitment, there is this accountability that goes along with it. I love that. So this feels like a good place for us to also start to kind of come full circle in our conversation. I'm talking about the bigger picture stuff. So the name of this is Good Life Project. So if I offer up this phrase,

to live a good life, I'm curious individually, what comes up for each of you? Well, I'm personally doing that. I mean, in the sense of providing, together we're providing meaningful work for people. And I think that there's something really great about having the opportunity to work somewhere meaning. We're creating new opportunities for new businesses that we're involved in. We're meaningfully contributing to our kids' lives and we're pulling them into what mom and dad do. We still very much love each other and like to be around each other

and value each other's differences. And for me, especially the older I get, the more I'm grateful that she's different than me. I mean, life would be so boring if we were the same person. And so I truly am really appreciating that all the more of who she is and her uniqueness. And that we're not two people, like merging identities. We're actually really kind of contrast each other in a beautiful way. I'm incredibly grateful for the opportunity to mentor folks.

And, you know, hopefully it creates a great legacy when it's all said and done. For me to live a good life is to really love other people and find unique ways to serve them, whether it's through opportunity or, you know, giving or assistance or whatever. I think that the good life isn't about me. Thank you both. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at sparkotype.com. That's S-P-A-R-K-E-T-Y-P-E.com.

Or just click the link in the show notes. And of course, if you haven't already done so, be sure to click on the subscribe button in your listening app so you never miss an episode. And then share, share the love. If there's something that you've heard in this episode that you would love to turn into a conversation, share it with people and have that conversation. Because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold. See you next time. The Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,

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