Good Life Project - Panache Desai: On Teachers, Triggers, Presence and Grace

Episode Date: October 31, 2016

This week's guest, Panache Desai, is a contemporary spiritual teacher, author of Discovering Your Soul Signature, and recent guest of Oprah Winfrey on Super Soul Sunday.Desai's connection to spirit, to something bigger than him or any one being, arrived as a child. Embracing it and allowing it to move through him came easily. But, because it also came so early in life, he'd not yet developed the seasoning to be able to understand and apply this wisdom in the most constructive way.It would take years of grappling, growing and even stumbling, often in the public's eye, to begin to forge a deeper wisdom and a more capable channel that would allow him to fully step into, understand and share his gift.TThe catalyst for this rapid evolution, though, would be something Panache Desai never saw coming, his daughter's devastating diagnosis of heart failure. Hours after we spoke with Panache, he would be on a plane to the hospital to join his wife and daughter, who had just been placed on a list for a heart-transplant.He was in a process of reckoning. This is where our conversation began. We dropped into the deep end of the pool very quickly and never really came out. The conversation was powerful, emotional and it will challenge your idea of meaning and connection and remind you of the importance of staying open, leading with love, being forever a student and owning our impact on those around us. We wish Panache and his family love and healing, grace and ease.Get your free guided meditation from Panache to change the energy that surrounds you and access the greatness that has always lived inside you.+++++++++Order your copy of Jonathan Fields’ new book, How to Live a Good Life: Soulful Stories, Surprising Science and Practical Wisdom, today! It's available at booksellers everywhere. And, you can download the first chapter and invest in your copy now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I was very quickly reminded and actually placed on my knees. I'll never forget it. There's a moment in the chapel in the hospital where I'm literally on my knees and all I can do is be with the absolute powerlessness that I was present to. The absolute inability to make a difference in the life of this being that I love. My guest today is spiritual teacher and author of the book, Discovering Your Soul Signature, Panash Desai. You've probably seen him pretty much all over the place, including on Oprah. And our conversation took place and started and went into the deep end of the pool really quickly, which is a good thing, a powerful thing. We went in directions that I didn't see coming. And he shared as we sat in conversation that he was about to get onto a plane hours after this conversation to travel to another state where his young daughter was in heart failure. And we go into that conversation

and how that has been for him. And from there, we kind of launch into a deeper discussion of spirituality and reality and what matters and what doesn't. It's a moving, very real conversation, and one that I will be revisiting many times. I hope you enjoy it. I'm Jonathan Fields. This is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,

whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun.

January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk.

It's good to be hanging out with you. Yeah, it's great to be hanging out with you too. Thank you for schlepping over in a rainy day. Oh, it's my pleasure. What were you doing in New York, actually? I just came to see you, actually. So I flew in yesterday and just actually came. So there were some friends of mine on the plane with me.

Ah, nice. And their daughter's selling a piece at Sotheby's on Monday. Ah. So I was with her last night talking about how her life is about to change. That's exciting. And how she needs to navigate her way through the art world, which another big illusion yeah so i had fun with them ah beautiful yeah that's fantastic this has been quite a year for you actually you had two sets of twins is that right i have two sets of twins and the second set came this year right seconds that were born in 2015

okay that is so how does that happen it um it happens through just a lot of open-hearted yearning to be a parent. And in our case, the absolute miracle of modern science, because my wife had had a radical hysterectomy. And so we went back to the fertility doctor that you'd used your first time around. And we got pregnant. And the blessing was that with ivf you have multiple opportunities to get pregnant and so we had our first twins and then we thought you know what let's let's let's go again and let's let's double up the grandchild count for my parents and uh so we did and so we had another set of twins ah that's beautiful yeah so you have a

very busy household right i do I do. I do. That's why I have girls, boys. I've got three daughters, Olivia, Sophia, Celeste, and then Leonardo is the youngest. Very nice. It's interesting. I know that you've written in the past about the fact that you were brought up in London and you knew from a very young age, it sounds like, that you are different. Do you see in your, and I want to actually, I want to explore that with you a bit. I'm curious, do you see in your kids, young as they are, anything that would remind you of yourself in the way that you found yourself different? Absolutely. I have an annual event every year called a global gathering, and it's basically an opportunity for people all around the world to come together. And it's a weekend event and I normally have guest speakers. And the first year that my daughters were there, Olivia, my eldest, literally just walked around like this with her palms open.

She was just kind of sharing energy with everybody. So when I see them, I see these incredible beings that have the opportunity to know that they're not different. Whereas I believe that in some way I was. With them, we have the opportunity to provide them a framework to know actually that in the context of human existence, there's this other dimension of who we are called energy and vibration. And that that doesn't make you different. It actually just makes you more open to the human experience. And so it's amazing to have these children in my life and to provide them a platform and a structure of acceptance to where they don't have to reject that about themselves, to where they don't have to in any way pretend that it doesn't exist. So I have four future Hogwarts students on my hands and we'll see where it ends up. But I am very excited to see how they develop and how they evolve and what that looks like for them.

How much do you feel like you're teaching them versus them teaching you? They're absolutely teaching me. I've told everybody that from the moment they start speaking and sharing what they've come here to share, I will no longer need to because they are far more evolved than I will ever be. And that's because as we look at this evolutionary leap that we're making, our children are coming in in this way of being that is actually way beyond anything that we could ever imagine. Because they're just connected. They're just empathic. They're just who they are. And the energy that then they're able to embody is amplified so much more you know like i i have moments of being with my kids and and i'm just reminded of first of all how grateful i am to be a father secondly how much it's absolutely transformed my life and my relationship with my reality and thirdly as a custodian of the

consciousness of these four beings, the responsibility and the role that that is to support them in fully allowing that energy that they carry to be expressed in every moment. And it's not always easy because of course, as you and I both know, we were parented in the way that our parents were parented and so again it's an opportunity for me to become very conscious very quickly about old patterns or behaviors and old ways of being that don't foster that environment in which my children can have this ever-present neutrality where they can just be who they are yeah it is um being a parent is a canvas um but you are being painted as much

as you're painting absolutely and they will forever transform your life my um my daughter celeste uh was born with a congenital heart defect and uh the first week of her life we almost lost her three times in the hospital oh my and she single-handedly has been my greatest catalyst and she has guided me into a place of surrender like no other experience i've ever had the first week of her life i was still in some way personalizing her journey and as we began to walk down this path with her multiple surgeries when multiple heart bypasses you know pacemaker i mean as we walked down this path with her, multiple surgeries, multiple heart bypasses, you know, pacemaker. I mean, as we walked down this path with her, I was very quickly reminded and actually placed on my knees. I'll never forget it. There's a moment in the chapel in the hospital where I'm literally

on my knees and all I can do is be with the absolute powerlessness that I was present to. The absolute inability to make a difference in the life of this being that I love. And in that, I have to tell you, something profoundly began to shift for me. Because in that, I realized the absolute futility of holding on to our version of reality. In that I had no choice but to let go and allow her to have her journey, even if that meant no longer being here. And it's funny with the timing of this, because actually she's now back in the hospital again and she's in heart failure.

And so we are in some ways reliving the whole experience again. But this time, there's a greater level of spaciousness in me around the experience to where I trust in who she is and I trust in her journey. We've had to place her on the heart transplant list because she's at a very critical kind of stage with her heart failure. So, again, as parents, it's hard because, you know, we want our children, of course, to not have to experience these things. And yet somehow in her courage to experience this, the evolution and the love and the just vulnerability that she's provided every member of my family is unprecedented. And I have to tell you that as much as it's painful and as much as there's a sadness there and as much as there's still emotion around the experience, so many blessings have come out of this event. That crisis really has served as a catalyst for me as an individual. The truth is really it's just really humbling. It's really grounding. It's really something that profoundly places you in your humanity.

And you then have to exist there. And so it's just been a phenomenal, painful, excruciating, deeply cathartic adventure of allowing this soul to have her journey. And as parents to put her in the best place that we can to afford her the best possibility of quality of life. Moving through that as a human being, as a parent alone is so, I mean, it's deep, it's stunning. It's like all the words that you said. And at the same time, when you're also a parent of other children who are not all that far in age,

who've got to be looking to you, no matter how much you tell them, no matter how much you explain the universe, your beautiful lens in the world, who've got to be looking to you and, you know, on some level at that age to let them know it's going to be okay. Yeah. That is it. That is a dance. And reassuring that it's going to be okay, but also dealing with the reality of what's happening.

Because it's going to be okay may well mean that their sister transitions. And so for my wife and I, it's been a constant fluid scenario where we have just been thrown into the moment every day where we have no choice but to hold on to the highest for celeste and and lovingly reassure the kids as best as we can without giving them some false notion of what's going on here but giving them every hope and and holding the highest for their sister right as we are for our daughter uh it's been just incredible, I have to tell you. And it continues to be. I always say that Celeste has come to show me my own heart defects. And I have to say that in being shown them, sometimes as hard as they are to see,

my heart is more open than it ever has been. What are the things that it's shown you? I mean, I know we all struggle to be open, to surrender, with you in particular. Where is that point of struggle for you? I think that this whole experience has highlighted a lot for me in the fact that as a young man who's been thrust into the kind of pinnacle of a genre, there was a lot of insecurity there. There was a lot of things that I had to embrace within myself that I hadn't embraced, primarily because of my age. When everything first started happening to me, I was only 24 years old. I'm only 38 now. So, you know,

when you look at the actual lifespan of an expression, it's really not been that long, but there's been a lot of immaturity that I've had to constantly be honest about and constantly give my attention to. And quite honestly, I think that she's provided me an opportunity to grow up and to have a more spacious and gracious way of being in the world. Because I think at a certain point, you can't help but get lost in the experience. And everything that's happening with Celeste snapped me out of that. Because in that moment, nothing matters but her, right? her right so you know books don't matter you know traveling and speaking doesn't matter right the accumulation of things doesn't matter there's nothing like a visit from death to actually first of all make you really acutely aware of your immortality and to also help you reprioritize and refocus on what's important.

And I would say that she has helped me do that. And I am so grateful for that and that it's happened at an early age. Because the one commitment that I've made out of all of this is that I will not waste my time. Because I can't get it back. And it's the only real commodity that we have, is our time. And so, Celeste has been a reminder constantly of the finite nature of human existence. And she's brought an acuteness and an aliveness to my life and an appreciation that I once didn't have.

Because I think for me, the biggest issue was that, you know, everything related to spirituality comes so easily for me. It's not anything that I've ever had to study or strive to attain or accumulate or, you know, it's just natural for me. It's just who I am. It's my soul accumulate. It's just natural for me. It's just who I am. It's my soul signature.

It's my essence. And so, in some ways then, there would almost be like a spiritual compensation for the parts of life that didn't come easily to me. And I can't do that anymore. And so she's helped me deconstruct this almost spiritual egoic identity and helped me now start to peel away the layers of that to where now I can just relate and sit here and be and just love you

and appreciate you. And then that's the gift that has come of all of this, is that I think that sometimes when things come easily or with conduits through which they come into existence, we don't always have a level of appreciation for that. And so she's acutely given me a heightened level of appreciation for both being a father, being,

being a husband, being a human being, being someone who, um, goes through everything that everybody else goes through. And at the same time, she's opened up the windows of perceived imperfection that I had so much so that I'm now beginning to see grace and presence and love in them. It's just amazing.

It's so powerful how when we're faced with either our own impermanence or the impermanence of somebody that we care so deeply about that we feel it as our own, how often it takes that experience for us to awaken to, as you said, the importance of every moment and exalting that as sort of the metric, you know, by which we measure how we sort of exist, you know, how we invest our time. Are we really doing what matters? You shared something also, which is that this experience has sort of heightened your appreciation of so many things. It seems like also it's led to maybe an accelerated maturation of the vessel to a point where it sounds like, and tell me if I wasn't hearing this properly, but I feel like I've seen this across a lot of people from different spiritual traditions who have said

in some way, shape, or form that access to this something bigger has come at an early age and has come with a fair degree of ease, and at the same time has come at a point in their lives where the vessel through which it poured wasn't fully formed. And because of that, it was leaky, it was misdirected, It was not a hearty container, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It just, it is. Right. You know, and that experience is like this. They forge the container. Right.

And that's actually 100% accurate. And I think that the other thing that I've really realized is that, you know, imperfection is so important in the human egoic makeup. Because I've come to know now firsthand that it is imperfection that allows the light of the soul to shine through into the world. You see, if we were to be perfect on an egoic level, there would be absolutely no way for the light of the soul to penetrate into our reality. So it's through our insecurity, it's through our unworthiness, it's through our unlovability, it's through our need to compensate or pretend or be better, it's through all of that that grace becomes an entry point. And it becomes an entry point because all of a sudden there's a level of relatability

that we have to others that we didn't have before, you see. And so you're absolutely right. You know, I'm still in the middle of an evolution, and I'm happy to say that I don't think that's ever going to end. And, you know, when we look at what's happened in my life and the very short window of time in which it's happened, I've been very fortunate in a lot of instances to where my wife and my mother and those people that are closest to me have saved me from myself. When I've been in positions where

sometimes that immaturity is what's steering everything or that, you know, something other than that love is what's being presented. And, uh, I'm, I'm very fortunate in the fact that I have a very vocal wife and a very vocal mother. And typically these,

these conversations happen around the dinner table and, uh, and they always start with, uh, panache. So how are you? I think there's some, uh, clearly something we need to talk about. And thank God for that divine, feminine, maternal, spousal energy.

Because it's constantly and consistently been just a safe place to land. Because, you know, I've very much grown up in public over the last, you know, 14 years. And I've fallen over in public. And I've had tantrums in public. And I've scraped my knee in public. And, you know, for me, it's been a very public maturation. You know, it's not something that I've had the pleasure to enjoy privately. Not that that would make it any easier, of course, because you still have to deal with yourself but it's you're absolutely right i think that now we're at a point

where the container itself is being prepared in a great way to house the experience and the energy with spaciousness and i can't wait for that version of panache. Like I'm excited to meet that version of me. And I feel so close. I feel so close to that. But at the same time, it's like I don't want to rush that process. I don't want to rush it because it's so important. Yeah. And the question becomes also, how do you know when you're there?

And is there any there? Or is it just a constant state of, I can feel it, it's so close. And 10 years from now, we'd sit down and have a similar conversation and say, I can't believe where I've been. There's such growth, and I'm so close. There's a point of saying, yes, you know, I will just always be so close. And actually, rather than that being a point of futility, you know, it's a point of grace. Yes, I'll always be pulled from ahead and I'll always be changing and evolving and growing.

But there can be a want to just be there. Yeah. And it's beautiful because I think that, and in this maturation and everything that's happening, the dominant experience now is peace. And for me, in everything that happened, you know, in the experiences that I've had and, you know, experiencing the divine and all of this stuff, I mean, at the end of it, I was just left feeling and knowing very clearly that peace is the baseline of all human existence and experience. And that now that peace is there more. And that peace is more readily available. And of course, peace is the experience of enlightenment. When we are feeling peaceful, we are experiencing our soul.

We're experiencing connection. And so this has yet served to deepen the teaching and to deepen the ability to support people energetically and to deepen my personal experience support people energetically and to deepen my personal experience of life and being human because quite honestly up until everything that happened with Celeste I'd lived a very charmed grace-filled life you know the degree to which I had experienced adversity paled in comparison to the degree to which most people have experienced adversity in their lives.

And so you're absolutely right. There's an amazing preparation happening, and it's now, and it's now, and it's now, and it will continue to be that way. Yeah, I remember years ago a teacher, Buddhist tradition, because somebody asked a question like, well, how do you know if somebody is enlightened? And he said there is, I guess, a question like, well, how do you know if somebody is enlightened?

And he said, yeah, there is, I guess, a classic Buddhist parable, you know, before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. Right. That's exactly right. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun.

On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot.

Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X.

Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. I've discovered that there are two ways of really helping people understand that in a very practical sense. The first is that you're less reactive. And the second is that you experience greater levels of synchronicity. And I've noticed in people over and over again, as they continue to relax into who they authentically are, those two traits are very present. They're less reactive and they're experiencing heightened levels of synchronicity.

And so for me, those are the only two discernible signs of awakening that I've been able to kind of highlight and pinpoint thus far. That's interesting. Would you feel like if you were in a place where you felt like that was starting to line up, that you could also use the lack of those two or the potential reversal of those two as indicators that, huh, maybe I'm heading off the rails a little bit? Absolutely, because any reactivity is born of the identity. It's born of some fear-based reaction to life. So ultimately, on the level of being, there is just a neutrality. There's nothing. There's no reactivity.

There's nothing that's calling you into any kind of response you're just naturally there so yeah there's a big barometer there to help people really get to a place of clarity which is that anywhere where you're triggered the only part of you that can be triggered is the part of you that's related to egoic existence or identity. And in that moment, the person that triggers you is the messenger. And in feeling what's being activated inside of you and relaxing into it and welcoming it, you then return to peace. And the more this happens, the more peace becomes your new normal, to the point where your relationship with that individual, your benefits of it, that wasn't what brought me to it, was just, and I didn't notice it for quite a while, was just that things that would, or people who would in some way

bring up something in me, it wasn't happening on the same level. And it was the lack of that reactivity that I started to become aware of and that also has allowed a certain increased level of grace. Not that I live my life in this place where everything is great all the time, but just it is that diminishment. What's interesting, too, to me is that the common response in the world of, I don't know whether you call it a space or a genre or popular psychology, self-help, personal development, very often one of the instructions is, if you're surrounded by people who don't 100% buy into what you

believe and don't 100% support you or in some way, quote, trigger you, you need to jettison them from your lives. Right. If I'm understanding what you're saying, it's almost like the opposite. Like, this person is here because there's a lesson they need to learn. Absolutely. And until I've figured out how to move through it without getting them out of my life, they need to be here. Exactly.

And the more we can embrace what we see in the mirror, the faster the mirror smashes. And every source of incompletion that we're experiencing in the world is because of some unresolved experience within ourselves. So in that moment, that person is serving as a catalyst to help to bring us into clarity. So for example, if you have like a spouse or a family member, family members are the best, like family holidays are the best. They're like button-pushing conventions, right? And that's where the rubber meets the road.

Because what people don't realize is we engage in spiritual practice to induce the incompletion so that we can bring it into our awareness and integrate it. See, what happens is all of a sudden somebody gets angry. Let's say they're a meditator and all of a sudden they get angry. The tendency is to invalidate their spiritual development as a result of that anger arising. But that isn't true. You're meditating to trigger the unconscious. You're engaging in spiritual practice to trigger that which is unresolved so that you can bring it into the light of your awareness and so that you can accept it and embrace it.

And so, yeah, I've always been a proponent of a very integrated, holistic way of being in the world. Because exclusionism isn't oneness. You see, and the very second you make the other the issue, you're lost. In the same way that if you make the other the solution, you're lost. And so this very simple awareness and this very simple focus of attention on oneself allows you to very rapidly and very quickly begin to integrate and feel what there is to feel inside of you.

And oneness really as a state of being is the inclusion of all things. When we really look at being, being is all inclusive. What we have to do really is expand our definition of the word love to become all-inclusive. At that point, there's not a problem. So for example, when you're sad, when you're afraid, or when you're insecure, when you're having a moment of arrogance or whatever, or egoic compensation, at that point, it's okay. You're not meeting yourself with judgment. You're not all of a sudden invalidating your spiritual practice. What you're doing is lovingly embracing your humanity in its totality,

because that's the moment in which the divine reveals itself. You see, so I run toward people who trigger me. I run toward my fear because I've learned now over time that there's more grace on the other side of it there's more love on the other side of it there's more empathy more compassion there's more connection on the other side of it and so if that's the end result of me being uncomfortable and challenging my notion of familiar then why why not? Yeah, you and I are wired the same way that way. Although that's not come easily. You know, because the natural or organic sort of approach is, it does induce a feeling of unease, of great discomfort,

very often sustained physical, psychological, physiological unease, and we just want it to stop. So we either rush so fast through it to just get it over with, or we pull ourselves back out of it so we don't have to deal with it. But it will remain there forever until you just learn how to be with it long enough for whatever the lesson is that needs to be revealed to be revealed. But that's not, I mean, at least in my experience, we're not done there. Then the question is, okay, now what do I do with this?

How do I be with this in a way where I don't move around it, but I can move through it and or make it a part of me moving forward if it needs to be. Right. And so the awareness of fight or flight isn't the end of fight or flight. But it provides you an opportunity to no longer engage in life from a space of survival. And when you can, all of a sudden, be aware of the survival mechanism that's running you and running all human beings, you can then gradually begin to disrupt it. Not that it's wrong, not that it's bad, but quite honestly, as long as we're stuck in survival, we can't realize our abundance, our health, our love,

our connection, our peace in its totality. And the reason why most people don't progress on the path of abundance or spirituality or personal development is because they bump up against something that triggers their survival response to life. And in that moment of confrontation where something greater is kind of bumping up against their limitation, in that moment, instead of being uncomfortable, they move toward that which is familiar, that which provides a

sense of safety. And so, you know, this awareness in and of itself is really just the beginning. But it's really a foundational way to know yourself, right? We know that in certain moments of life and living, that's going to be triggered. We know that. So then the opportunity is, okay, well, what happens when that's triggered? And again, it's not easy. That's why I've noticed that commitment, consistency, and repetition are so important. Yeah, huge. Because I think that people forget that monks meditate every day in order to naturally come back to peace.

I think that people forget that. I think that people forget that this growth or this game that we're playing of coming into totality of who we are remembrance is a building of momentum that happens over time and it's that which we do every day it's that which we can repeat every day it's that which we can commit to even in moments when life is hard life is challenging life is presenting us something that we don't want to feel. It's the commitment to being at peace that drives the rest of the experience. Yeah, I mean, that's why it's called the practice. That's exactly right, yeah. You know, it's the day after day after day after day that develops that over time.

We've kind of jumped right into the deep end of the pool together. And I think you and I could spend a lot more time there. And I want to probably come back to this. But why don't we take a step back in time also so we give a little bit of context to who you are and the story that you've to you with great ease. What was the thing that started to bring you to this as something central in your life? My grandmother was the focal point of my experience as a child for the first five years. And she would pray every day and chant every day. And I grew up in an environment where they'd recite the Guru Gita, Mahabharata, Ramayana. And so spirituality was basically the foundational experience of my formative years.

And the good thing about an Indian spiritual framework is that actually I had pictures of everybody on my walls. Because we actually respect all of the manifestations of divinity that have occurred since the beginning of time because all of these different manifestations were messengers of the same eternal truth that has simply been spoken by saints and sages in different words throughout the ages and so for me my life was just strange as a child i mean mean, all I wanted, quite honestly, was to be normal, whatever that meant. So I wanted to play and I wanted to watch TV. And I love the A-team as a child.

And I love B.A. Barakas. I always say that B.A. Barakas was my first guru. He was my first spiritual mentor. If you guys don't know what the A-team is or who B.A. Barakas is, you must go and watch an episode, then come back and listen to the rest of this. Exactly. So, you know, I just wanted to do what everybody else was doing, and yet I knew things that I wasn't supposed to know. And I was feeling things that I couldn't quantify or explain, because there was really not that much of a sense of separation between myself and my

reality it was like almost as though i could become whoever i was with or merge with them so much so that i would feel and experience everything that they had inside of them and as a child it was very scary for me because... Like a profound empathy or... Very profound empathy, but also just a profound ability to allow whatever this veil of separation is to just collapse. And at that point, you see, you are the other person, the other person is you. So I would have moments where I would just be walking through my life. I remember specifically there were certain events, but one in particular where I found myself in a park and one of my aunts was dating somebody that she didn't want my grandparents to find out about.

So it was always like, oh, I'm taking panache for some ice cream. I got to eat a lot of ice cream. So I'm taking panache for some ice cream. So I ended up in some park somewhere and this man comes and sits down. He's an elderly gentleman. And he literally, now I'm probably about five at this point in my life. He starts telling me his whole life story.

I'm five. I'm just sitting there. I didn't say a word. I'm just sitting there. He's telling me his whole life story. And not only is he telling me his whole life story, I mean everything. I hate my wife. My kids don't love me.

And I'm like, I'm five. So then he starts feeling all the emotion, the anger and the sadness and the resentment and everything that had accumulated inside of him through the course of his life. And I'm watching all of this. And then by the time he gets done telling me how much he hates his life and hates everything and wishes his life could be different and i'm just looking at him he gets up and he's sparkly whereas before he just was so burdened and so heavy and so just in this space of not loving himself all of a sudden he was able to then get up and access this place

within himself where he was light, where something had shifted. And this was a process that was happening my entire life that I couldn't understand. Like it didn't make any sense to me. And even though, you know, being Indian on the weekends we'd go see spiritual teachers and saints and sages is what you do, you'd basically being Indian on the weekends, we'd go see spiritual teachers and saints and sages. It's what you do. You basically line up for three hours to go see someone that's called Darshan. And you get there eventually and they feed you like a piece of fruit or something, give you a hug.

In every one of these interactions, they would say to me, we've been waiting for you. And I would just say, this is like, what, this is weird. Like, what's going on? You know, and of course I of course, what was happening to me was even way beyond what my family had the ability to understand. Subsequently, my mother told me that she knew that this was going to happen to me. She knew this because when she was pregnant with me,

before she had me, she had a stillborn baby girl. And so she went to India to be blessed for my birth and she was told at the time by uh we have in india we have a tradition of realized masters and teachers so she was told by one of these beings that this is kind of why i was coming back and so she had a context for it but i had no context for it so i mean it was just like the strangest childhood and yet spirituality played an undercurrent in my life like we had a meditation center in my home so i remember you know playing the drum and child like i love playing the drum and chanting and you know we do art the every day and we'd you know we'd light a candle

and we'd offer it and you know and and we do poojas and we do all of these ritualistic ceremonies on a daily basis on a consistent basis and on a consistent basis. And on the weekends, we'd open up our home to where other people would come and be with us. And yet, even though I had this foundation of spirituality, I wasn't prepared for all of the other, you know, kind of side effects or manifestations that come along with a deeply devoted spiritual life, which is that we just get to a place where separation, that most people exist in this sense of separation that allows them to have this fixed sense of self that then allows them to relate to another, that wasn't there for me in the same way. That hadn't been constructed in the same way.

There was something in me that allowed for somewhat of a meshing or somewhat of a merging between myself and the other. And that continues to this day. However, for me now, of course, consciously, there's now a framework for it. And it's still true. I mean, I don't want to know everything about everybody. I don't want to feel everything inside of everybody. It's not, you know, I've never wanted that. And yet, for some reason, that's the manifestation of this that's playing out in my life.

Yeah, I mean, it can lead to extraordinary things, but at the same time, a friend of mine, a neuroscientist, Srinivasan Pillai, once shared with me, we were talking about some similar ideas, and he said there's a difference between, I'm trying to remember how he phrased it, I think he said emotional empathy versus cognitive empathy. He said, and I had never heard that distinction before, I don't know whether he created that, but the way he described it to me was that emotional empathy was when you are so open that you feel the pain of everyone else. And cognitive empathy is when you're open so that you're deeply aware of it, but you

don't feel it on the level of the people that you're around. And he said, the reason that matters is because if you feel what others feel on the same level that they feel, then it becomes brutally hard for you to then serve them from a place of having enough of a reservoir to be able to actually be of service because you're in the same level of pain or suffering as they are. You feel suffocation if they feel suffocation. So what he was saying was if you can develop the skill of being open and being aware and experiencing and at the same time preparing yourself so that you don't feel it on the same level, so that you're capable of guidance rather than being just you know held down yeah but it's a hard thing to do it is how do you develop that well it's actually

somewhat of being thrown in the deep end and all of a sudden you kind of as with all things you adapt to what's going on so for me for example when i had the time to do individual sessions which i don't have the time to do anymore i would literally spend six to eight hours in my day reliving every trauma and hurt that had happened to the person i was with as if it was happening to me it's brutal and But the difference was that because it wasn't happening to me, because it wasn't my experience, it was their experience, I was almost able to hold a space that allowed them to be free of it. And it's very hard to explain, but I like that.

I like the cognitive empathy and the emotional empathy. So somehow, in this kind of wiring of who I am, there is naturally and organically been an adaptation to where emotional empathy still occurs, but yet there's enough of an awareness that even though I feel as though it's happening to me, there's enough of an awareness that even though I feel it's what's happening to me there's enough of an awareness to where I can have space around it and come out of the other side of it and then all of a sudden it disappears in

them and it's been very interesting to observe that over and over and over again because I feel like on some level that's kind of why we are here, is to hold a space of connection and love that is so profound that we become a space through which that which is in some way unfaceable in the other or something that cannot be embraced or something that is unforgivable in the other finds resolution and it's funny because obviously we're in new york and um one of the things that i actually did and one of the things i still do is i i go to densely populated areas

and i'll just walk around and feel and so i also kind of have desensitized myself to being in crowds and being in environments where there's a lot, you know. It's like exposure therapy. Exactly. And also that's really helped me because that's allowed me to have some semblance of a life that's functional. Because otherwise it's's quite honestly just the emotional empathic connection in and of itself can be debilitating because you're not there's i mean you're just constantly plugged in to the collective unresolved emotional body of humanity yeah and in a place like new york city that can yeah if you feel that that can destroy you right there's an interesting conversation with sharon salisbury earlier this year, I think it was.

And she was just walking around. It was a beautiful day before she came and we sat down. And she said she literally walks down the street when she's in New York City offering loving kindness meditation. She walks through the street in a meta meditation. So as people pass her by, you know, like, may you be well, may you be happy, may you be healthy, like, may you live with ease. She just sort of is looking at each person and offering this as a way to just sort of this blessing to each person who walks by. And in a way, when you do that, if you do,

you know, if you're open to the notion that there but for god's grace go i that we are all part of something bigger you're simultaneously offering the blessing to yourself right and that's the blessing like i at a certain point actually it's kind of funny i realized that everything that was happening in my life was that so that i could hear the words that were coming out of my own mouth. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun.

On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot?

Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. And that all of these people and all of these things that were happening in my life were happening so that my higher self

or my knowing self or essential self could communicate to all the other parts of me what was required through the form of informing other people so and and the funny thing is that when i actually started to listen to myself my life got better there's such an amazing like hey there's something there's such an amazing correlation between actually listening to what's coming out of your mouth in service of another and applying it to yourself it just it's fascinating so this whole thing is like one giant conspiracy to finally get us to listen to our own knowing and to act on it that's the other

part and to act on it and if we we can do that, then what Sharon was doing becomes a new archetype. Because I think that we now have to take what we're doing and really mainstream it. I feel strongly that we're at a point where we have to leave behind everything that in some way creates a sense of separation in the practice, in our way of being, in our languaging. And we have to now start to infiltrate mainstream and everybody with this awareness in a way that they can really receive it. And I love that you shared that with me because I actually, when everything first started happening to me, I started to have certain visions of things that were going to happen.

And one of the things that I was actually very deeply connected to and I still cherish dearly is the knowing that individuals like you and I will just be walking down the street. Everybody that's listening, all of you, you'll be walking down the street and simply through your presence alone, everything that needs to be expressed to everyone else will be. And it's like in that moment, they're just going to drop into connection. And that's where we are headed, right? But that requires us now to go beyond the meditation room, to go beyond the retreat center, to go beyond all of the spaces that we have now created to be entry points to peace. We now have to be able to do that in Times Square. You know,

we now need to be able to do that, you know, on the freeway heading to LaGuardia or JFK, right? We now need to be able to do that all the time. And I have to tell you that one of the biggest things that gets in the way of that is the distinction between spiritual and non-spiritual. I think that's our biggest roadblock. That's our biggest stumbling block. Take me deeper into that. Because I think we have to get over the notion that in some way spiritual is something other, better, or more when it isn't. You see, the fundamental existence of all reality is spirit made manifest. And I have actually had some of the most profound conversations with people who were the least, quote unquote, spiritual.

Like, spiritual would not be on their Facebook profile. I remember I was on a flight and I was traveling to a speaking event and I was sitting next to this cowboy who had a cowboy hat on, that's how I knew he was a cowboy, and he was chewing tobacco and he had requested a Coke can and he was spitting his tobacco into this Coke can and not a single word was

exchanged the whole flight. And we get to the end of the journey and all of a sudden he turns around and looks at me and we connect and he says, you know, there's something about you that is very special. And he said, I'm going through a very hard time in my life right now. And it turns out that he was having a hard time with alcoholism and was in recovery. And as a result of this, he had severely fractured his relationship with his daughter and his wife and he said you know i don't know who you are but i want you to know that somehow because i've met you i know that

my life is going to be different and in that what was evidenced clearly was that we now through our presence alone have the ability to impact the consciousness or the vibrational resonance of another person. So much so that it's not about words. It's not about the uniform. It's not about the identity. It's not about, you know, the yoga mat. It's not about that. It's now just that our presence alone, the more we've accepted ourselves, becomes the conduit through which the truth is remembered in the other. Is that the gateway, acceptance of ourselves, that allows us to cultivate that presence that makes that difference? Absolutely, because acceptance allows for a flow

of energy. You know, whenever we accept something, naturally there's a flow, there's an expansion. See, rejection and judgment leads to the repression or suppression, and ultimately leads to the creation of all these unconscious habits and patterns that, you know, just constantly play out over and over again. And so as we look at emotion in particular, it's the acceptance of emotion, it's the acceptance of thought, it's the acceptance of everything that's happening that offers us the fastest path to oneness. When we can simply be with what's arising within us, which means going beyond the societal conditioning, right? And even spiritual conditioning. I think in some ways, spiritual people have a harder time with emotion than people who aren't spiritual, because spiritual people

can judge themselves in 16 dimensions, right? Your average person is just angry, right? But we're not just angry, right? Our second chakra isn't spinning properly. There was an evil entity that jumped out of a cat when we were crossing the road. Let's take possession of our faculties. We have to smudge ourselves. We have to spin around in a circle three times.

We have to bless ourselves with holy water. As spiritual people, this is the cross that we bear, right? But your average person is just angry. They're not in opposition to their anger. And here's why, because they don't make the appearance of anger in their experience mean anything about them. But as a spiritual person, we make it mean all of a sudden that we're not spiritual. We're not embodying completely the full totality of what it means to be enlightened and what it means to be aware in this world. So I think in some ways, as spiritual people, we have to come into a place of acceptance more than anybody else and create a framework of understanding that regardless of how enlightened we are,

we're still going to feel everything. We're still going to experience the mind. We're still going to experience the body. We're still going to experience life. The only difference is that none of that will be an issue anymore. That's the only difference. Life doesn't stop happening. Life continues to happen, but our relationship with life is forever transformed. Yeah. And i think that's always been the the odd conception of this you know quote enlightenment at least as its touchdown in western society is that the idea that enlightenment is the moment that you get to

withdraw yourself from all of this and everything is just awesome whereas the way that you're offering it is no it's actually the moment that you're offering it is, no, it's actually the moment that you allow to stay in all of this and everything is awesome. Right. This is exactly right. It's being awesome even in the moments that aren't so awesome. That's really what it is. I'd be remiss if I didn't,

because this is leading straight up to the state of what's happening, at least in the United States right now. The idea of removing barriers between individuals, of experiencing others as us, as separation, the notion that we are separate, being both foreign and also a huge point of suffering. In what we're going through now in the United States as a season that we're experiencing as astonishingly divisive and deepening risks of profound separation. And there's a lot of pain and suffering and anxiety that is going on around that. Talk to me about this. There's a lot of people out there that are not going to like what I'm about to say.

So I'm just going to give you that disclaimer. But I want you to lean into it because I think that what's happening right now in the pantomime of political theater is that the shadow of the American psyche is being brought into the light of our awareness. And so, and I'm going to say this, and I'm really sorry, but I'm going to preface it by saying that Harry was Voldemort and Voldemort was Harry. And I'm saying that to you because I think that the greatest spiritual service that you can offer the world at this time is to embrace your inner Trump and your inner Hillary. I think that the greatest spiritual service you can offer, especially in the heat of this political climate, is to have a look

at where you embody those same characteristics and traits within yourself. And I will say this, by virtue of the fact that we are human, we all have these traits. Nobody is exempt from these behaviors. It doesn't mean that we have to act on them, but we at least in our awareness and in our consciousness have to have an ability to accept them, right? And so what's playing out right now is interesting on lots of different levels. And I think that actually, as much as it doesn't feel like a good thing, it's actually a very good thing. Because now, when everything that's unconscious begins to see the light of day, it becomes a topic of conversation. It becomes a moment of integration. It becomes a moment of integration. It becomes a moment in which we get to expand our hearts even wider, right?

And so even though divisiveness may be used as a tool in the world, we must end the divisiveness that we have with ourselves and within ourselves and start compartmentalizing ourselves as good and bad, acceptable, unacceptable, right and wrong. We have to stop that divisiveness within ourselves. And again, for those of you that are in America, I'm proud to say that I'm now an American citizen as well as a British national. I'm a dual national.

So I have it going on on two continents. You've breached it. I have it going on on two continents you've breached it yeah i have it going on on in two fronts but what i will say is that i firmly believe in the greater potentiality of this country and i firmly believe that at some point we as a people are going to have to understand that we have taxation with the illusion of representation. And until we come together and lobby on behalf of us as the American people, I don't think we're going to have the representation that we deserve. And it's sad, but it's true. The current political climate and

situation doesn't allow for your average individual to be advocated on behalf of. And so what I will say is that regardless of what your opinion is or who you're voting for or who you're not voting for, what your position is in what's happening, recognize that your position is what's creating the suffering. Because the end result of it is that whoever has been bought and paid for in the most profound and substantial way will be advocated on behalf of. And that's the sad nature of political systems, not just here, but all over the world. And so the only way out of it, and of course it's going to intensify, is to simply embrace what you don't like in either candidate. And just consider the possibility, please, and I'm saying this with all the love in my heart, that if you are resistant or you are in a state of aversion around either candidate, that there is something within you that is wanting to come into the light of your awareness and your experience.

Something wants to be embraced. Something is crying out for your attention and ultimately wants to be integrated so that it can then return to love. It is a moment. It is a moment. You know, of opening, reckoning, surrender, hope, fear.

It's all of that swirling around. Yeah, the question is how we'll all move through it. There's a fantastic story, actually, and it was from the life of Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi. And he went on a hunger strike because Hindus and Muslims were basically fighting each other. The British foreign policy of divide and conquer had divided religious groups that were basically like brothers prior to the British occupation. And so Hindus and Muslims prior to the British occupation were like brothers. They lived in harmony. There was never any religious turmoil in India. so all of a sudden

there's all this religious turmoil because the the british kind of parting shot of divisiveness or dividing conquered that they left behind was to plant these seeds of hatred in these two religious groups and all of a sudden neighbors became enemies and there's a moment in gandhi story in the middle of this hunger strike where there's this man who comes rushing up to him where he's laying down and he throws naan at Gandhi and says, eat it. I will not have your death on my hands. Eat this, old man. I will not have the death of the father of this nation on my conscience. And Gandhi says, well, what have you done? Like what's happened? And he and he says well I'm a Muslim and he said Hindus came to my village and they killed my family and in a moment of absolute

rage I burned down a house of a Hindu family and there was a boy and he died and it was because of me and I can't live with myself and Gandhi looks and says, well, the only way for you to end your suffering is for you to adopt a Hindu boy and raise him as a Hindu. Then and only then will you have peace. That's everything right there. That we must be willing to end

our inner opposition to others. Then, and only then, will we know peace. It feels like a good place to come full circle as well. So as we sit here, this wonderful conversation is part of something called The Good Life Project. So if we sit here, this wonderful conversation is part of something

called the Good Life Project. So if I offer that phrase out to you, to live a good life, what comes up? I think that in the context of everything that's happening right now, I would say, please don't waste your time. Don't suffer now to be happy later. If there's a hard conversation you need to have, have it. If there's something you need to address in any area of life and living, please address it. Because the most precious gift that we have is this life. And what I want you to know is that it is completely within your ability to be free of all forms of suffering. It's completely within your ability to know the love that you are, the abundance that you are, the health that you are, to have the intimacy that you so desire. What it takes is

cultivating a heightened level of honesty with oneself, committing to that, and being willing at all costs to abide in that, so much so that you won't waste time anymore. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. If the stories and ideas in any way moved you, I would so appreciate if you would take just a few extra seconds for two quick things. One, if it's touched you in some way,

if there's some idea or moment in the story or in the conversation that you really feel like you would share with somebody else, that it would make a difference in somebody else's life, take a moment and whatever app you're using, just share this episode with somebody who you think it'll make a difference for. Email it if that's the easiest thing, whatever is easiest for you. And then of course, if you're compelled, subscribe so that you can stay a part of this continuing experience. My greatest hope with this podcast

is not just to produce moments and share stories and ideas that impact one person listening, but to let it create a conversation, to let it serve as a catalyst for the elevation of all of us together collectively, because that's how we rise. When stories and ideas become conversations

that lead to action, that's when real change happens. And I would love to invite you to participate on that level. Thank you so much as always for your intention, for your attention, for your heart. And I wish you only the best. I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever.

It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.

Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die.

Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk.