Good Life Project - Powered by Kombucha | Daina Trout

Episode Date: March 31, 2020

Daina Trout thought she was starting a hair-growth company with her husband and best friend, before pivoting to become Health-Ade Kombucha, a national brand that is sold at 30,000 grocery stores and health food markets nationwide. In 2017, Food & Wine named Trout one of the most innovative women in food & drink and in early 2018 Create & Cultivate featured her in its C&C 100 list, celebrating 100 women who are masters of their field. In 2019, Daina was included on Inc’s Female Founder 100 list and was also named BevNet’s Person Of The Year.You can find Daina Trout at: Website | InstagramCheck out our offerings & partners: My New Book SparkedMy New Podcast SPARKEDVisit Our Sponsor Page For a Complete List of Vanity URLs & Discount Codes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My guest today, Dinah Trout, got her master's degrees in both nutrition and public health at Tufts, a BS from Georgetown, and then took this kind of funny left turn. She co-founded what eventually became HealthAid Kombucha in 2012, along with her husband, Justin Trout, and her best friend, Vanessa Du. And since the beginning, the trio has been committed to brewing the best tasting, super high quality kombucha on the market. And in a remarkably short window of time, they have become a dominant force in the kombucha marketplace. But here is the thing. Their company was never supposed to be a kombucha company. In fact, it started as a hair regrowth venture. That is right. We dive into this crazy and fun story

today, along with how her Lithuanian roots and traditions have really informed her life and even found their way into her company and are kind of covertly imposed on the brand and on every bottle of kombucha that goes out into the world and so many other wonderful insights and stories. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required.

Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. I have two sons now one's only five months so he's not speaking yet but the other son is four years old and he is fluent in Lithuanian.

I have a Lithuanian nanny. It's a big part of who I am and what I want to keep alive. Yeah. Why is this so important to you? I mean, you're hanging out right now. You're raising a family in Southern California. Could not be different in so many ways. Yeah.

Why does it matter? It's funny because very often, you know, when you talk about the grandparents' generation, well, clearly it's really easy to understand why it's so important. And then the parents, but like with each generation, so often people kind of just leave it behind or maybe there's an increasing push to assimilate. It seems like you've gone the opposite direction. Well, I certainly think I assimilated, like we live in LA and speak English mostly, and you know, but yeah,

I guess if I give up, it's lost. So there's something to, and I think the Lithuanians in general, if you got to know the culture, they are a tenacious group that just will not let go.

I mean, during the, a lot of countries in that area were occupied at the time and quickly moved to speaking Russian. They never lost their culture. No, they like held on and it's like their pride that they held on. So it's sort of like, it almost feels like my duty to keep it alive. And there's a lot I align with as far as the the culture goes in fact it's even on our bottle right you may have not noticed it but yeah the coat of arms yeah i mean there's like there's

been a lot of it's a beautiful country right on the baltic sea it's incredibly beautiful so not surprisingly um it was often fought over and yeah I just feel like they've worked so hard to become independent and be who they are that it almost feels like my responsibility to keep it alive. I also feel like language, knowing another language is important. So that's a reason for sure to keep it alive for my sons. And it means something. You know, it's not just like, you know, another language. It actually means something to us. He can communicate with his parents.

I mean, his grandparents and even his great-grandparents. It's just like a special connection. I kind of, I'm not a part of the Jewish community, although sometimes I wish I was. It's kind of a little bit like that in that there's, you know, I don't know if you've, there's like a community immediately when you meet another Lithuanian. It's like you know a little bit about that person. Yeah, so that's why. Yeah, that's pretty neat.

I love just sort of like the passionate connection to like this has to stay alive. It matters. With whatever else is going on in the world, the pace that life is happening, because it's also – especially the level that you've embraced it, it's not just, hey, remember that this is where we're from. It's sort of like carving out time to study and learn and participate and be interactive, which is, it's a commitment I think we just don't see a lot these days. Yeah, and it's unfortunate, I think, because it's just like everything else. It's easy to let this stuff go. And I think about it sometimes. I'm tempted.

I'm like, seriously, is he going to teach his kids Lithuanian? Like, why don't I just give this up? I'm trying to do so much. But yeah, no, you do it because because if you don't, it dies. And so if it matters, you have to do it. If it matters to you, you know, and I just think there's such a like history there to know how your grandparents like fought to live. My dad was born in a refugee camp. Like, what? Like that story means something a lot more if he speaks Lithuanian and we go to Lithuania and we like talk about that history and culture because it's a part of our DNA. Yeah, 100%. Because you also, I mean, when you were growing up,

was that the only language spoken in your house? Or was it like a mix? It was a mix. I mean, it was were growing up, was that the only language spoken in your house? Or was it like a mix? It was a mix. Yeah. I mean, it was only Lithuanian until we went to school. Got it, got it, got it. And then English kind of started. Yeah.

What is that? I mean, was there much of a community in Calgary? Not in Calgary, but we had communities outside of Calgary. I went to Lithuanian summer camp every year in Vermont. So we had our communities. There was a small community in Calgary, but not much. My mom actually started the Lithuanian school and ran it in our basement every Saturday. Oh, wow. So you were at the place everyone went. Yep. Yep. So there was like a group of 10 of us in Calgary and we did it for until I was 16. I mean, until so I had moved from Calgary before 16, but I did Lithuanian school till I was 16. So I had moved from Calgary before 16, but I did Lithuanian school until I was 16.

So let's see until I was 13 in Calgary. Right. What are you into as a kid? Because I know eventually you end up in college and it seems like there's a really strong focus on health and well-being and public health. Was that seed planted earlier or was that something you just kind of like stumbled upon when you hit college and grad school?

I think it started before college. I've always had an interest in health. I mean, maybe I always had an interest in science, or at least I could say I was always good at science. But, you know, when you're in grade school, I don't know that it was that apparent. Right before college and high school, I just, you know, I was, I really liked science and was interested in biology. And I had an opportunity to like do a few internships in medical schools. And I don't know if you remember that movie Patch Adams. Yeah, of course. Robin Williams.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they, so right around the time. I think that made so many people want to be doctors. Yeah. Like just GPs. Yeah. So he had like a summer camp or like an internship for medically minded high school students. You had to apply. I got in. So I went to that, like I, so I kind of already was developing a, an obvious proclivity to the health sciences early on. Was med school sort of like the path that you thought you were going down? Yeah, I thought I was going to go to med school, even until my very last year of university. Oh, no kidding. What happened? I was an EMT at Georgetown on the side, like I did it for the Georgetown University Hospital.

So I had a lot of opportunity actually in the hospital with doctors. And I just, there was something, and maybe it was the ER in particular, but there was something about it that didn't jive. So two things specifically, one was the doctors were often lamenting to me about the amount of paperwork they did. Which has not improved. Yeah. Like, healthcare is not what it used to be, is what they would say. And you go in to heal patients, but you end up doing a ton of paperwork and you only get two minutes with the patient. So I think that I saw a little bit of that reality.

And maybe I allowed the ER, you know, representation of that influenced me too much, because of course, there's other areas of medicine, but that kind of was a data point. And then I had this experience, you know, where we brought a baby in and the baby died. And it was just like, they had to move on. The doctors had to move on like very quickly. It was sort of time of death. And then and I just could not move on. I thought this is not for me. You're like 20, 21 at that point also. Was that your first or like up close exposure to death also or no? Probably. I mean, my grandmother had died, but she had lived a really long, good life. So yeah, that was the most, and it was more, it wasn't just the death per se, because they worked really hard to keep the baby alive. It wasn't that, it was just how quickly they had to move on. And I just, I don't know, there was something about the whole experience

of those two things that said, maybe I don't want to be a doctor. And then I had an opportunity at my senior year to do an internship with a woman named Dr. Artemis Simopoulos, who is a really awesome nutritionist, also a doctor. And she coined the term the omega diet, which you may have heard of. She was one of the first to really understand and study the benefits of omega threes and fish on diet. And then after that came this, you know, exposure of the Mediterranean diet, which even still today is thought of as the healthiest diet. And so she wrote the omega diet and she needed an intern for six weeks to help her write her next book, which was called The Good Fat Diet. And I had an opportunity in my senior year of college to do that. So I was her research assistant. And basically I did all, and that was back in the day, pre cell phones. So you're in the research for that book. And I just really loved that aspect of health, how food could influence health. And so those things all together made me pivot from going to medical school to going to nutrition school.

And I think food has also had a really big part of my grow-up life life too, or my, um, formative year in my growing up, my mom cooked like a home cooked meals, healthy meals every day. I mean, I was definitely the kid in, in high school that like had a very special lunch, you know, it wasn't peanut butter and jelly. It was like, you know, roasted peppers with basil andlet cheese on focaccia bread that my mom made from home. So like there's no question that that had a part of it. Yeah. Yeah. At that age, I'm curious, were you the kid where everyone was like, ooh, you know, like what did Donna bring in for lunch today?

Or as a teenager, are you like, oh, man, I just want to be like, can I just have a lunch like everybody else? Yeah, I think I wanted a lunch like everybody else. I wanted Doritos and peanut butter and jelly like everybody else. I'm like, God, I'm going to eat carrots again. But not too much. I actually really liked the food my mom cooked. Mostly, actually, I would just give it away because I had so many friends that showed up with just like a few bucks to buy stuff out of the vending machine. So I would like share my lunch with them.

No, I don't think anybody made fun of me too much. I went to an all girls Catholic school too though. So like, I don't know, it wasn't really that, that type of environment. Thank goodness. So you have this experience senior year of college. I'm fascinated by, and we've talked about on the podcast here and there, this concept of sliding doors and people just dropping into your life that literally will change the trajectory of everything past that. And I'm always curious, like, you know, like what would have happened

if this one person, this one moment, this one project didn't drop in? Do you have a sense that you were still trending in that direction? Do you think like that thing literally, like had it not happened, you would have been an entirely different place? You know, I hadn't thought about it until now, but I think that that changed the trajectory. Cause even before that, while I had grown up eating good foods, I wasn't like into cooking or anything in college yet. And really it wasn't until I spent that time researching omega threes and just learning a lot about nutrition and their real impact on health from her, from Dr. Simopoulos. Yeah, I never really thought about it like that. But I, you know, I went to medical school and it was in medical school that I even further fell in love with food and further got into how it can heal people and having fun with food. I learned how to make kombucha there. I don't think I would have ever learned how to make kombucha if it wasn't for Dr. Simopoulos, which is funny because I'm not even sure she knows what kombucha is.

That's too funny. Yeah. I never thought about it like that. I guess I should send her a thanks. And as soon as you said that, a few other people popped up down the line. Right. We always have those. The people or the moments or just the circumstances. We're like, huh. Life would be profoundly different had not. This thing that I couldn't have seen coming just happened. Yeah. And it really was a pick of the hat. We had the internships, you picked from a hat. Oh, no kidding. So this wasn't even like you saw this and you chose it, this is what I want. It was just kind of random. It was random. Yeah. There were

internships set up for the class and you picked out of a hat and that was the one you got. I mean, they were all health science oriented because we were all pre-med, but, um, yeah, that's amazing. So you then go and, um, come out of Georgetown and this becomes like your primary focus, go on to pursue, you said med school or master's? I went directly into Tufts. Right. I was actually in a PhD program first. Okay.

You know, nutritional biochemistry was what I was studying. And it was, you know, the thing about PhD programs in nutrition is they can be anywhere from seven years long to 20 years long, depending on how long it takes for you to do your work. Right. So I really didn't know how long I would be there, but I was there to study nutrition. And I kind of envisioned that I would be a research scientist at that point. So that was the future picture. A little bit. That's the direction I'm going to go. Yeah. You're saying a little bit like your face is like, eh, kind of, but maybe there wasn't even much of a picture. Yeah. You know, I guess my whole life I've never, I mean, until now, I've never really been sure like what the end of the staircase looked like. I think what got me to that point was a little bit like I was good at science.

I was interested in health sciences. And I just kind of kept taking one step in front of the other. And I was in grad school. Like I didn't, it's not like I was in grad school saying, oh, I want to be this. Like, oh yeah. You know? So in some ways I tell people that like I was in grad school because I didn't really know yet, you know, which is sort of embarrassing to say, but I think I was still figuring it out, but like honing in. Cause then it only took me a year to realize, well, that's not what I want to do. I was spending time in the lab recognizing that's not where my best use of self is. So I pulled out of the PhD program and admitted myself

into a double master's program. So a master of nutritional biochemistry, which was the PhD version, just minus the dissertation part, just the studies of it. And then a master's in public health, which was my attempt to engage with people more because that was the thing missing in the research side. I felt like I'm in the room with rats all day. Like I'm, I want to talk to people, you know, I got jokes to tell. So I thought like, okay, public health, that's now, you see how it's kind of all coming together. I'm like people and health. public health. That's now, you see how it's kind of all coming together? I'm like people and health. Got it.

It's interesting also because coming from Canada, you could have stayed in the system there, fantastic education system, but you chose to come to the U.S. system. But in Canada also, you would have been forced to specialize in sort of like, you know, it seems like that system, there's a lot more pressure to kind of like choose early, specialize, and stay the path. Whereas the system is different here. It sort of doesn't necessarily encourage, but it's a lot easier, I think, to sort of – it may add years to the journey. But it's easier to kind of say, no, not quite right. Let me try this. Let me try this. I think I did end up having a pretty focused path in university because I went to the school. I was sort of convinced that I was going to go into health sciences. So I went into

the school of nursing and health sciences at Georgetown. So I was already specialized. So I guess I kind of followed that Canadian route. So you kind of recreated it here. I guess so. Yeah, because Georgetown has a bunch of schools. There's like the business school. So I was in the nursing school, which had the health sciences and pre-med arm. So a lot of those people fed into nursing or medical school. Got it. So you come out of that.

You end up stepping into pharmaceutical land. Yeah. So, yeah. I met Justin, co-founder in Boston. Right. Who would eventually become your husband. Yeah. So, yeah. I met Justin, co-founder in Boston. Right. Who would eventually become your husband. Yep. And he was a musician.

And I met him because, well, I was really trying to find friends in Boston. I loved everybody in my nutrition school. But I don't know. I was like longing for a non-science creative set of friends and so I got a job as a hostess in a restaurant in Boston and he was the waiter there so that's how we met and we when we when I was done with graduate school he was done with Berkeley College of Music and we basically knew that for him to pursue music, it was going to be L.A. or New York. And I just had enough of the cold.

So we really did move here for the weather. I guess the weather and the music. That's amazing. So you guys end up touching down in L.A. He's sort of like focusing on the music side of things. You get the full-time job at a pharmaceutical company with sales, right? Yep. And it sounds like you also get kind of like cherry-picked pretty quickly and dropped into

this leadership experience, which really opens your eyes in a lot of different ways. Tell me more about that. That was another like sort of marquee moment, I think, for me. So I did well on the sales side, and they picked 12 individuals across the country to be what they called change agents. So taking you back to this period of time, this is right when generic medicine is starting to come out. And so there was competition for the first time for medicine. And so therefore, you know, growth rates were down for their sales, and there was a lot of attrition. So we were having layoffs. Every company was having layoffs, like every six months. So it once was a very secure,

steady job where people were like 25, 30 years in the same job. Now suddenly they're losing their friends. So it became a completely different culture. It went from a great culture to a very scared culture. Productivity then went down, dot, dot, dot. So Andrew Witte was the CEO at the time, and I thought he was pretty progressive to think that he could bring some internal change agents to help drive engagement. So he picked his top salespeople to then basically change, okay, your customer is no longer the doctor. Your customer is now our employee. And your job is to improve their engagement and their love for our company. Interesting that he would pick top salespeople for that. I know.

It's actually really smart. Because they're the ones who actually have the ability to influence decision making and change. I mean, it worked. Or behavior change. Yeah. Yeah. It was a really cool opportunity. I mean, it was the main reason I ended up starting HealthAid.

Like it was the marquee thing. What did it teach you or show you or what skills did it give you or experiences did you have like that that would make you say that? So two things. And just to give you a little background on the job. So I had mentioned that our goal was to improve engagement. We each got a geography in the country. So mine was like the West Coast, basically top to bottom U.S. And they gave us an unlimited budget.

I mean, it wasn't like go spend, but it was sort of like, you know, we don't know here. So just spend wisely. Here's a credit card and we're going to track engagement in your geography from the beginning to the end. And just kind of like, there was really no structure. So two things that there was 12 of us and we were a bit of a team. What I learned was I thrived in the lack of structure and being autonomous and having an unlimited budget. Just like I had no problem with being like, got it. I got the goal. I'm on my way. I figured it out.

Yeah. And the reason I especially noticed it was the 11 others really struggled with that. Constantly looking for check-ins and needing more structure from somebody. And there was a lot of sort of turmoil about like, well, what am I supposed to do? You expect me to? And I was sort of like, don't ask, just go, you know, follow your gut, follow your intuition about like how you think this, you know, you might drive engagement. So, so one was, I kind of just noticed that lack of structure and autonomy. I liked it. And that was unusual compared to the others. The second thing was actually what I learned in the process. So I ended up meeting with each of

the teams in the entire coast. I must have met with, you know, hundreds of teams. So it's kind of like a business school crash course in teams, team performance. I knew who did well, who didn't do well from a performance standpoint. What drove performance engagement? What type of management affected what type of team? It was so cool. And I was just like soaking it all up. And then I just felt like I had so many major takeaways from that experience. Just I understood, I felt at least that I understood what drives people to work harder and what inspires people and what type of management and leadership works. And so when I finished that job, I was like, oh, yeah, like I need to go be in a place where I'm leading people affecting what I'm what I've learned in management and people and and leadership and at the same time being an entirely autonomous

place with no structure right ladder free sounds like a startup to me yeah well and then also like that internship end I I won the award by the way, for the, for the best, uh, most improved engagement. And I went back to my sales job cause it was like just a one year thing, which was super structured, no autonomy, like very kind of, and I just, I became so unhappy in that year. It was like I had, I had gotten a taste of freedom and then, and I really thank GSK for all of that because had I not gotten the experience, I don't know that I would have gotten the confidence. Yeah.

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Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun.

On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk.

It's so interesting also how you observed how unusual your mo was compared to like the other 11 people who are out there doing this because i think a lot of times people are sort of like wired for as as founders or entrepreneurs or people who are in some way for some reason more comfortable than others stepping into the abyss where you just don't know what's going to happen and you don't necessarily have structure or strict guidance or rules or bounds or constraints that freaks most people out. Most people shut down in that scenario. And there's the occasional person in this case, one out of 12 was 8% or something like that, right? Who there's something in the brain which says, oh yeah.

Yeah. This is like, I'm okay here. And not only that, but I'm thriving in this space. So it's interesting for you to not only have that experience, but also observe that it was really unusual that you reacted that way. Yeah. And that's where I got some of that confidence. Yeah.

Was I realized like, huh, this is like hard for other people, but not for me. I mean, I will say I still had a lot of fear. And that's something I always want to make sure I articulate because, of course, it's scary. You're going into something. You feel like you might lose your job. You know, you don't know what you're doing. There's no guidebook. And that's been the same for entrepreneurship. It's scary.

But, yeah, there is something different about entrepreneurs. I find they go forward anyway. And they're okay with that. Like they're okay. They almost like, they almost like, there's something about the fear that drives them instead of stops them. So you said it right when you said some people shut down. Yeah, like I didn't shut down. That made me go harder.

Right. It's almost like it's fuel for your system. I mean, it's interesting because I've often heard people say like, be fearless. And A, I actually don't believe that state exists. And it is more about feeling it, but somehow having the ability to reframe it as possibility bundled with risk and bundled with stakes. Yes. But seeing the possibility side as being a stronger pull than the push to step back from the, you know, like the fear and the risk and the stakes side of it. And I've seen some people just seem to be wired that way naturally. And other people actually develop practices that allow them to be okay enough there so that they

can kind of live in that space long enough to create magic. But it seems like you were the person who just kind of is wired that way. It sounds like at least. Yeah. I mean, there are, I mean, still to this day, building and leading this business has been a constant sort of like sprint and recover model of, you know, and then you find a new fear and it's always scary. Like I could tattoo it on my body. There's no safe way to win.

It's never felt safe. So over time, the benefit you have, at least the benefit I've had, is that you become more familiar with it. So I guess that comfort gives you some level of superiority over it. You kind of know it. I've been here before and I made it through. So we'll figure this out too. Right. But the fear doesn't go away. Right.

I would never say I'm fearless at all. In fact, you know, last week I was scared than I've ever been, you know, and I always feel like my company could just go. And maybe that's, I don't know if that's what drives me, but yeah, at times I do have to rely on a discipline to get through it. And it really is just me reminding myself that I can do it. And I've done it before. It's sort of like bet on yourself.

So this company that we've referenced a number of times now, Healthy Kombucha, we're going to talk about what it's grown into. But I love the origin story, too, because you didn't set out to start a kombucha company. So show what really happened here. Okay, cool. Yeah, no, it's, we call it from hair loss to health aid, which is probably not what you'd expect. So I'd mentioned, so we've already set ourselves up. I'm feeling unfulfilled at my job. I've also had this taste of autonomy.

My co-founder and best friend at the time, Vanessa, also was feeling unfulfilled. She worked at the same pharmaceutical company. She didn't have the opportunity I did as a change agent, but she was just somebody who also I knew didn't ever need structure. She always won the awards. She was just like really good. And she was feeling unfulfilled. And then Justin had been working at the music game tirelessly for five years and like barely making ends meet. So at least the three of us were just like, come on, there is more for us out here, you know.

So we started an entrepreneur club and we started coming up with ideas. Justin at the time was working for on the side, outside of music to make money, was working for an entrepreneur who made a ton of money selling tap on hair. So not anything that actually solved the problem of hair thinning, but helped cosmetically conceal it with basically hair that you tapped on. And then when you showered, it would go away. They used to sell it on SkyMall. So it did really well. And Justin just was so inspired by, you know, this business because it just worked so well and it wasn't even that great of a product. So Justin brought to the table, to the entrepreneur club table, Hey, like if we could find a solution that actually works in hair loss,

I think we could actually really win here. And my background of like food and holistic nutrition, I was really interested in finding a natural way. Cause when I did the research, there was a ton of chemicals, but, and even pharmaceuticals, but nothing natural. So we started researching what would regrow hair. That's where it all started. Which is kind of, I mean, that's been sort of like a holy grail as a potential business solution for generations now. I guess so. Because the problem's never going away. Yeah, right. So we start researching what would regrow hair and we find that all over the internet, um, our YouTube videos of people in parts of the world that are using the culture of kombucha also often called the SCOBY. It looks like a little pancake and it, it is the,

it holds all the probiotics that basically ferment the tea. Anyway, they use this culture as a mask on the head. And, you know, like some of them mix it with like avocados and put it on some, put the pancakes just straight on the head. But like all this, you know, anecdotal stuff of the kombucha culture actually regrowing hair. Right. Is the researcher brain in you also wanting like... Oh, yeah.

Okay, like where... Yeah, yeah. Show me the science behind it. So because we talked about the science background, I will go into that part because there was this whole period of me saying, okay, we're, we're conducting a research experiment here instead of just, let's make a SCOBY mask, which is sort of what I tell people because, you know, it's not a necessary part of the story, but it is kind of funny. So that you all know, to make a SCOBY, you make a

batch of kombucha because each batch, basically the SCOBY replicates. So from one batch, after you're done fermenting, you'll get two. And then you can use two of those and they'll each make one. So then you get four and then you get 16 and so on and so forth. And for those who don't know what kombucha is, by the way, it's a ferment, how would you describe it? Fermented beverage? It's fermented tea. Right. It doesn't taste anything like tea in the end, sort of like how wine doesn't taste anything like grape juice. But it tastes really delicious.

It's a little bit sweet, a tiny bit tart, and it's filled with probiotics and healthy organic acids. So it kind of should be viewed as like a soda replacement or a juice replacement that makes you feel good with way less sugar. Got it. Cool. Okay. So that's how you make cultures. And I had learned how to make kombucha back in graduate school. So I knew how to make it.

And I already had a really strong culture that I like brought with me from Boston. So you'd literally been traveling with like the source culture. Yeah. And I had no idea it was going to be like my identity, but I'm like, I know how to make kombucha and I make a really good kombucha. Therefore, my SCOBY is probably pretty good. Therefore, it will save the world from baldness. So we thought. So I'm like, okay, but we're not just going to like start making this thing. We've got to prove that it works. The scientist in me got some stage time. So the next step was to assess Justin's rate of hair loss because his hair was already thinning at 28 pre-SCOBY use. And so we didn't have any money. I mean, we had like 600 bucks to put toward this effort. So there was no like scientific or there was no like laser we could buy to see how much hair was on Justin's head.

So the way we did it was every day when he, he took a shower, we would gather in the drain what hair was in there. And for 60 days we would count the number of hairs and then like log it in an Excel sheet. So like day one, 13 hairs, day two, 13. So I was trying to get an average amount of hair loss. So we did that. And I just, I know Vanessa. How is he feeling just personally? Vanessa and I, we used to do, we would all do the counting. And I just know that that was, that's a memory that we all have, like rolling the hairs up and like writing down the log number. It's too funny.

So we hadn't even gotten to putting the SCOBY on Justin's head yet. That was the plan. But about 60 days of doing this research project, and we were so hungry to get started. I mean, one thing you should know about Justin, Vanessa, and I is we are like very turbo mode type of people. We're not like patient. So at this point, we already wanted to start a business. Like we already wanted to start a business 10 years ago. We couldn't wait.

So this science experiment was kind of like nagging on us because we had to complete it, but we didn't want to. And Vanessa had a friend that worked at a farmer's market. She was like the manager at Brentwood Farmer's Market, which for those of you not in LA, it's one of the biggest farmer's markets here. It's all every week, all year round. It's a pretty big opportunity to sell there. It's actually like some, sometimes like a 12 month wait, if there's a ton of people that already sell your type of food or beverage. So it was a big opportunity. And she said, there's a farmer that's out for the summer months.

You can have this center spot if you want it to sell your hair loss thing. Because she had known about it from a conversation they had. And so we said yes before we even had put the SCOBY on Justin's head, before we even really created a product. Right. Got locked down the spot. Yeah. So, but we just said, we're going to figure this out. We're not losing this opportunity. So this was like February and the spot opened in March. So we had like six weeks, something like that. It was like middle of March, March 26th was going to be the day. And this was the beginning of February. So we had like six weeks to get a product. We did not think

that was going to be that hard. How hard could it be? We've got the SCOBY. Anyway, we spent an afternoon trying to mix the SCOBY with avocados and it was harder than we thought to make like a premium cosmetic product. Who knew? Who knew? Now, one thing you should know is that what I had been doing at this time,

not just counting Justin's hair in the sink, which was a glamorous job, I had been already preparing for the fact that I was going to need a lot of scobies. So every week I was making as much kombucha as I could in order to cultivate these cultures. And I was putting the cultures aside. The liquid was kind of like this annoying byproduct that I would just bottle. I wouldn't throw it out because it was really good and delicious kombucha, but I just bottled it and put it to the side and kind of gave it to my friends when they came over. But it was starting to take over my apartment because I kept making so much kombucha. So at one point I had like 60 cases in a tiny one bedroom apartment right by the Grove in LA and I couldn't really get rid of

enough. It was like taking over. So anyway, when we realized we couldn't make the hair product, but we had already signed up for the farmer's market and we didn't want to lose the opportunity to like make some money and start a business, we pivoted to selling the kombucha because we had that and it was good and it was bottled and it was ready to go. So then we took the next weekend to be like, okay, what's it going to be called? You know, and we came up with health aid, follow your gut, the anchor all in a two hour meeting. So all the branding. Yeah. Two hours. Yeah, man. Yeah. Pretty cool. And it makes me think a lot about how we can maybe overthink things or take too long to do things. So, so this, and this is a week out at that point. Yes. So, so two weeks, I would say

two weeks before the farmer's markets, then we had to like print the labels and scotch tape them on, of course, cause we're not going to pay for a real label. Um, yeah. And so we, we, but we didn't expect much. We thought the summer would, the summer we would learn about like business. We would sell some kombucha. Like even to us at that point, it wasn't going to be the thing. We thought we would, whatever money we made, we would put toward a laser machine that was going to count Justin's hair. Like that's what our mindset was. Got it.

So there wasn't a ton of pressure. And you already had the product made. It wasn't like you had to spend money now at that was. Got it. So there wasn't a ton of pressure. And you already had the product made. It wasn't like you had to spend money now at that point to make it. This was the annoying byproduct of what the real business was going to be. Yeah. And it would help clean out your apartment.

Yes. And I knew it was a good kombucha. I mean, the reason we hadn't thought about selling the kombucha was kombucha was already for sale at this point everywhere. You could get the guy who was the market leader,

you could buy him at the, you know, convenience store at this point. So I was sort of like 2012. Yeah. So to us, we were like, we're not going to beat him. He's like the Goliath that we don't know anything about beverage, but okay. So we did the farmer's market and just blew us away. So two things we learned here, a little bit similar to that leadership experience that one was about about how we're different and then the other was actually the lesson. So the first was we learned how much we love to sell and just love business. And we were really good at just naturally tenacious, I would say. We started in the farmer's market with a bunch of other companies similar to ours.

One was like a cool chocolate company, another cookie company. We all became kind of friends, all trying to start a brand from scratch. And we just grew way faster than them. And it wasn't because it just happened like that. We just would not let it do anything but that. So we're those types of people. And I think that's a part of it. A part of our success, at least, has been that we just didn't let it fail. So like the first farmer's market, you know, we wanted to beat the 10 o'clock sales from last market. So I had Vanessa at the front, Justin at the back. We didn't let one person walk by without trying kombucha. It was like, you, you haven't tried it yet come on over you know

so there was that piece that we kind of learned oh okay we're like we like are good at this and then the second piece was people couldn't seem to get enough of our kombucha it was like a line down the the the in the farmer's market like literally from when it opened to when it ended, it was like a complete buzz. And so we finished the summer being like, why would we leave this? This is, there's something here. So you're doing it pretty much every week. Yeah. So we still had our jobs.

So we still had our jobs. It was nights and weekends. Right. And you're showing up every weekend, the same experience, like it's just selling out and selling out. Yeah. Like we were sold out by 11. So the market is, the same experience, like it's just selling out and selling out and selling out. Yeah. Like we were sold out by 11. The market is telling you, green light, like go.

Yes, we want. Yeah. So we went from one market to three markets. By the end of that summer, we were in three markets. Yeah. And so each of us was wanting a market. And same thing in each of the markets. Like we were in Larchmont, Calabasas, and Brentwood. Are you still thinking at that point that, well, this is cool and all, but hair loss is still the ultimate gem?

Or by the end of the summer, had you kind of said, oh, there's something else happening here? Yeah, I would say even a month or two. Once we went from one market to two and had the same experience in the second, I think we all kind of realized there was something here. Right. It's not a fluke. Yeah. So where do you go from there? Because you still got to pay the rent. You're working full-time jobs.

And also, I mean, you love this thing. You've got a great product that's working. And also, which is kind of an interesting dynamic, it's you, your husband, and your best friend, which does not always make for the best sort of dynamic in a new company, let alone sort of like a really fast growing company. Yep. Yep. There's that whole angle.

But I mean, just to touch on the first part, like, yeah, we needed our jobs for the money. But luckily, at least Vanessa and I were in a sales job where we had a lot of autonomy over our time. So what started to happen, though, was we were doing a crappier job at our job. Like our numbers were going down because I was spending more and more time doing health aid. And toward the end of the year, right around October, we'd continued in the farmer's markets. We were still doing this whole thing. But it was to the point that we were working until like 1 in the morning every night and getting up at four in the morning every morning. I mean, it was just like a real grind and it was wearing us out and we were like maxed out.

So we got to a point in October where we said, what are we doing? Like, we can't keep doing this. So, and we all knew that health aid had something and we weren't going to really see that potential if we didn't really give it a shot. So there was something in us that just was like, you got to quit your job and do this. Like we just knew it, even though everything on paper that did not make sense, you know, because there was not enough income from health aid yet to cover the three of us for sure. We didn't have enough savings. There was no security. Farmer's market's just one thing in the bubble of LA. Like, are we really going to succeed outside of that? So everybody was sort of like, keep, keep doing this, test it first. But I guess we're a little bit rebellious. And we decided the three of us that we were all going to quit our jobs in December and January one, we were going to be all in. Did you set sort of like a drop dead date also? Or like if we don't hit X by this particular date and time, whether it's sales or revenue or money, whatever it is, you know, we'll go all in until here.

But if we don't hit this certain thing by this time, like we, something's got to change. We've got to go back to our jobs. I think that would have been a smart thing to do, but we, we, no, we were just like, we had no, any, there's nothing else in our mind except we were going to succeed at this, but I wouldn't call it confidence. It was almost naivete. Like it wasn't confidence. I wasn't like so sure we would win.

It was more like my life depends on it or something. I can't quite explain it very well. Every time I try, I feel like I don't quite hit it, but it almost felt like I had no other choice. Like it was like being done to me. Like, and I, I've heard other entrepreneurs say that too. Like you become an entrepreneur because you have no choice. Like, and, and there really was this calling of just like, this is what we're going to do now. And it doesn't make sense, but we're going to do it. And like, I didn't have money to pay the rent. Like I had only money to pay the rent for a couple months, I think saved up. So like, you know, we weren't thinking long-term, it was just like, we're going to do this and it's going to work out somehow.

So just trust in the universe or in our efforts and basically everything. Because either right around there or pretty soon after also, you also end up getting evicted. Oh, yeah. So it's like all of a sudden, not only the place you live, but the quote quote, factory, you know, kind of ceases to exist in all of this. Yeah. Yeah, that was a scary time. So actually, that was after we quit our jobs. That was like a good four or five months after.

So essentially what happened when we quit, and I would say this is a marquee moment for health aid. So an important, a really important moment for us was when we quit our jobs because now where we were before spending split time doing it, we now were spending all of our time doing it. And because there was no other income coming in, it was like we were starting to think smarter about it. Like how do we really drive revenues to just, you know, pay our bills? And so it was then that we hired independent sales reps. We literally put an ad on Craigslist. You know, anybody want to sell kombucha for free? For free kombucha in exchange? Oh, and by the way, if you open an account, and as soon as they start paying for kombucha, we'll give you 10% of that check. We had a good 20 people interested that showed up and we trained them. I remember in March, one year after we had sold our first bottle at Brentwood,

we had our first training with these 20 folks. And a lot of them were like yoga instructors that had some time or actors with time and just loved komb kombucha and they joined us. And what's kind of cool is from that first meeting, we still have one of our employees today and she's like moved up pretty far up the company. She's a senior director now and runs all of our natural accounts. But anyway, so her name is Megan. She started as a yoga instructor in that first class. Okay. So, you know, things like that where we went from three people running the business, me, Jess, and Vanessa, to a footprint of 20 around L.A. So we went from like seven stores to 300 in just a matter of weeks. And so that was like a real bump.

And then we got our first distributor because we recognized they could get our product even to more places. And then that just continued to explode things. Now, around that same time, we didn't get evicted because of money. We got evicted because you can't run a business out of your apartment. And, you know, it wasn't like quiet at this point. We were like making kombucha all day long. And my apartment had turned into a bed and kombucha everywhere so it was pretty much like not an apartment and kombucha is fermented tea and when it ferments it creates

acids which have like a scent right smells a little bit like apple cider vinegar so you know my neighbors weren't happy about that it was like a tiny apartment and they're like, dude, our place smells like apple cider vinegar like every day, you know, so totally get it. When we got evicted, we're like, yeah, we deserve that. So, you know, but we didn't let this stuff stop us. I posted something on Instagram today about another moment we had down the line where I think a lot of people would have quit. And getting evicted might be one of those moments too. But I think those are the most important moments that you don't quit. When I think about why we've been successful, I think about those moments. Because I think they're not the ones that are often celebrated. They're certainly not the ones that you get a trophy for. But it's those low moments that you don't quit, but everybody else would have quit. I think those are the ones

that make the difference. Anyway. So we lived out of our cars for a little bit, found our way to another place, you know, decided the apartment wasn't a good place that forced us into a commercial kitchen. That was the smart thing to do. Mm-hmm. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman.

I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him.

Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. What was the, so that was one of those, like, bringing you to your knees and like, are you in or are you out moments. What was the other one that you shared? Oh, there've been so many, but the one I was, that I posted about today was one it was 2014. So another year after that, we invested our first time in I guess sponsoring,

although really it was just selling at a music festival, Treasure Island Music Festival in San Francisco. We were starting to sell in San Francisco. We were starting to sell in stores there. So we wanted to quote unquote, like launch the city. And we were spending $10,000 to be a part of this festival, which was a lot of money for us at that time. Just to give you a sense, like when Heineken or something sponsors a concert, I mean, they're probably spending millions, certainly hundreds of thousands. So 10,000 was nothing compared to that, but it was a lot to us. So, okay, so we're going to go. So Justin and I fill up a 28 foot refrigerated truck that we rent and we're going to go out there and

like sell these concert goers our brand and driving up the five, Justin flips the truck. We totally should have died. I mean, it was a bad accident. And I think most people would have probably called it in that day. But we were like, so determined. And this was like, $10,000 we'd already spent, you know, it was like, so we just sort of ignored our dislocated jaws and bruises. And like just we somehow in the middle of the five and we had to unpack the truck ourselves for salvage, whatever we could. Nobody would help us because I don't know, insurance reasons. They brought us another 28 foot refrigerated truck. We unpacked this one, whatever was salvageable, packed it back.

But like, I'm sore. I just gotten in like a life threatening accident. So I'm like bleeding, packing this truck. Then we drive and I'm like crying the whole way because we're driving 35 miles an hour because I'm so scared to go fast because we just, you know, the truck breaks down an hour later. We have to do it again, unpack, repack. And we get there and we freaking sell the whole weekend. Um, luckily I had a team that was there, uh, to join us. And so it was like, we weren't unsupported there, but I mean, I just remember selling at Treasure Island Music Festival being like, something's not right with my brain. Oh, possible concussion. And, uh, you know, I just, I look back at that moment and I'm like, gosh, I think a lot of people would have phoned it in.

I think they would have not gone to Treasure Island Music Festival, but we did. I don't know. I think it's things like that. You don't get a trophy for that. Most people don't even know that it happened. Yeah, of course. Right. It's the internal stuff that just sort of like trips you up and you have to sort of like figure out. Yeah. It's like you just keep going anyway.

The other thing that occurs to me is that in the beginning, it's kind of like you talked about your naivete was one of the things that, and you weren't naive from a business standpoint, but I wonder if part of what you were reflecting on is the fact that the space you were going into, which, you know which is kombucha, but it's also the bigger space of CPG, consumer packaged goods, is known as being a kind of a brutal place to start any kind of business, in part because there's so many relationships that you have to have to have people carry your stuff. But also, it's a business which is massively overcrowded and requires a huge amount of capital

because you've always got to be ahead with the inventory that you're selling. You've always got to be carrying so much cash in the form of product that that eliminates so many people so early in the game. Even when they've got a concept or an idea and like, this is good, people want it. And then they realize they actually, they massively misunderstood the business side of it and ended up just crashing and burning because they hit a massive cashflow crunch. And you went into this and it sounds like to a certain extent, not knowing that maybe that was what- To a full extent.

Okay. Yeah, to a full. The only thing I was experienced in in business was the leadership piece. Everything else, completely oblivious to certainly everything you just discussed. But I'm so happy I didn't know. Yeah. Yeah. Because you probably would have just said, not too much. Yeah.

I mean, I wouldn't have even probably. I mean, because we didn't have any money. So, and then the only thing I'll add to that, too, is we manufacture our kombucha. And I didn't know any of the realities of manufacturing either. You know, like, if I gave that girl from eight years ago a brewery tour of my brewery today, she would have quit. She's like, I have no idea how to build that. No way. Like, that's not even in my, like, there's no way I could figure that out.

But, you know, that's been an important lesson in entrepreneurship, too, is you don't have to know what's eight years ahead. You just have to know two steps ahead, which is always available to you, by the way. You always see, you know, what's two, three, four steps ahead. You can see your options. You don't have to know, like, that will come, you know, what's two, three, four steps ahead. You can see your options. You don't have to, like, that will come, you know. I'm really happy I didn't see that brewery. I'm really happy I didn't know how hard it would be, that manufacturing has all odds against you, that consumer packaged goods has all odds against you. Yeah.

I mean, it's interesting how much sometimes, you know, we want to research and know everything that we can possibly know. And sometimes it's the fact that we can't know just enough that allows us to keep stepping forward. It's a really fine line, I think, you know, between a certain amount of ignorance and a certain amount of knowledge and then a willingness to just like, a willingness to just keep going, keep going, keep going. And I think what you said also is really powerful in that we hear so many times that how are you going to get there if you don't have a picture of where there is? And you should make it as clear and vivid as possible. And sometimes we can do that. But the truth is, in the world of entrepreneurship, anytime you're doing something genuinely new or different, you can define the qualities of what you maybe wanted to become. But with clarity, the specifics, it's almost impossible. Certainly how you're going to

get there is impossible. I mean, I guess we always had, when I think about that, I remember the three of us had the same vision always, and it was a little bit of a grandiose vision, one that probably many would say, oh, come on, give me a break. You know, what do you think, a Coke? Because we used to say, oh, we're going to be in Every Fridge in America in like two years. That's what we thought. But the vision was right. Every Fridge in America, that extraordinary vision is still one I hold today. It's just now nobody's going to tell me, oh, you're ridiculous.

Now they're like, oh, you're ridiculous. Now they're like, oh, you know what? You might just do that. But in the beginning it was like, you know, was there a moment step down? Was there a moment where in your mind, in your experience where a switch flipped and you went from thinking, oh yeah, like this is more than just rah, rah, rah, like keep us going commitment, but this actually is really going to happen. Or did you actually believe that from the very, very beginning? It's a really good question. And I will tell you that no, I did not believe that from the very beginning, even though I was called to it.

Like, I was called to prove it, but I didn't know it was going to happen. And at this current moment, I don't know what's going to happen. But there was a moment not that long ago where I thought, oh, my gosh, we're going to do this. That's so cool. And then that moment went away. And now I'm like, shit, I hope we're going to do this. But again, I'm called. You're like, where'd it go?

Where'd it go? Yeah, so I guess it comes in and out, that level of confidence. But what doesn't leave is the drive. It's like a calling to do it anyway. So no, I don't know. I'm never sure. It doesn't ever feel like a sure thing.

I guess there are moments where I think, oh gosh, maybe this is really going to happen. But then they're fleeting because some curveball comes your way and you think, well, again, I have no idea how to handle this. Am I going to, is this it? Is this it for me? This is my obituary? You know, everything I do, it feels like it's either going to be my greatest legacy or my obituary as it relates to health aid. It's a lot of pressure. Meanwhile, you're now in what, 30,000 plus stores around the country, around the world. But it is interesting, right? Because from the outside looking in, people probably look at health aid or really any company the size of what you've built now with a distribution of product and certainly the brand and all the stuff. And they're like, oh yeah, like they're good. Like they've got it dialed in. They've quote made it and sure they'll still keep growing, but they're like, you know, they're on a trajectory and it's clear and it's growing.

Looking back, you could pretty much plot it and see this massive exponential growth that keeps going. And so it's always so interesting to hear from you from the inside looking out that, yeah, you still have that aspiration. But on any given day, you open your eyes and you just don't know. Yeah. No, you don't know. And I know when you say the words out loud, I hear 30,000 stores. I hear that. I know the revenues we've made. I know that we continue to grow and have really strong growth. I don't know why that doesn't satisfy me.

As it, like, I would think that from, if I were listening to somebody, I would say, yeah, like you should celebrate that, you know, but it like, I don't know why, but it does. I'm like, yep, yep. We're still, you know, one 10th of the way there. It always, but I'm like, yep, yep, we're still one-tenth of the way there. It always feels like I'm one-tenth of the way there. I don't know where there is. I guess it's every fridge in America. I don't know what to tell you there. But I will say, did you watch the tennis match last night when Wang beat Williams?

But did you hear about it? No. Okay, so Serena Williams, she's won 23 of these titles. The underdog from China wang wins in the last you know a very kind of gut-wrenching it's an awesome match you should watch it and at the end it's chinese new year too and they ask her are you going to celebrate tonight you know you've just beat the unbeatable woman and it's Chinese New Year, like, hello, you know? And she's like, no, no, I'm not going to celebrate. And I know everybody's kind of like, what? But me and Justin, we were watching and we're like, I totally get it. I totally get it. I don't know. I mean, we do celebrate and I'm very grateful, but I'm not like

celebrating. Yeah. Like we are, we have a lot to do and it feels still like the business could, not that it could collapse. I mean, obviously we're, we're, we're a brand now that's established at some respect, but I, I, I don't feel like it's a sure thing forevermore. I want to be like a Nike. There's a long way to go. It's fun. Like a Nike. Yeah. I mean, it's funny that you bring that up because I remember reading Film Nights. Shoe Dog? Yeah, Shoe Dog. Love that book.

I mean, the parallels are kind of remarkable in that they were a company at hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. And any given day, he would walk in and not know if that was their last day of business. And I'm always fascinated by this perception that is so different from the outside looking in versus like the lived experience of those who are actually in there. Yes. It's a very vulnerable. Yeah. We do not feel, I mean, even when I go and do podcasts, I'm like, let's hope I'm relevant in a year. Seriously. What do you have though, in your mind, what do do you like? Is is there something that you like even maybe not utter publicly not doing it for any kind of fame. For me, like, I think I can, there will be a level of fear removed. Let's put it that way. If I have

acquired enough of a bag of rocks, so to speak, that like, nobody can ever take it from me. Like, when Justin and I bought our house, that was like a really important moment. I'm like, nobody could take this house from me. It's mine. It's worth what it is. And like, it's mine, you know, because right now all my money is still tied up in the equity of the company. Really? So I guess personally, there's a piece of it that like, when I have something that people can't take from me, I will feel like I can protect my family more. So there's that personal side of like immediate success. But I'm sure once that comes or if that comes, there'll be the next level of success defined.

But right now that's the personal one. And then on HealthAid, it's still like, how do we get more consumers to understand this is better for them than the soda they're drinking. And there's so many, I mean, it's like 2.6% of people have ever tried healthy. That's it. Ever. So that's like, that's like the good news, bad news story. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it's a small number and look at the universe of people out there. We're like, we still can make a difference. That's awesome. Yeah. And part of the backdrop to this whole thing also is, you know, it's like the three of you working together, best friend, partner in life, now a parent also, a couple of young kids. I remember starting a company when I was much more recently married and had a three-month-old baby.

So it's like you're starting two babies at once. That's hard. And I'm fascinated also by how people navigate that, sort of like navigate the personal relationship, navigate the parenting relationship and navigate what is effectively another marriage and family in the context of the business and a sense of feeling like you're doing justice to all of them at any given time. And I sometimes wonder if that's even, if that's a possible aspiration. I know I've struggled with it. And so many people I know who founded things have and never found a sort of like a really easy answer or a solid ground or like, oh, this is the way through. Yeah, that is a struggle. It's a challenge.

And I will say, though, it's gotten better. And there are specific things I think that I've done to help it get there. So I will just comment on the first thing. I would agree. I don't think at any given time I feel those are balanced, probably ever. But if you were to expand that snapshot instead of one moment of time, like in a month, have I been a good mom? Have I been a good CEO?

Have I been a good mom? Have I been a good CEO? Have I been a good wife? Good to myself? That's now where I start to say, okay, yeah, I am. So in that way, I'm experiencing success, so to speak, in a balance, but it does require a change in my expectation instead of that being a, you know, moment to moment, am I always balanced and giving everything the right amount? Saying, okay, maybe I can't be a good mom, a great mom, like the mom that I want to be remembered by every single day. But if in a week's time, both of my sons would say that once, okay, isn't that a win? So really it's a lowering of your expectations. And then the second piece is we're really defining what's on that boat that gets your energy, on that lifeboat that gets your energy. I think if you have too many things on there, it will become overwhelming and you can burn out.

So I had to do some work to define what are the things that I want to be right now in this moment with health aid as demanding as it is, with baby and four-year-old as demanding as that is. What do I want and what do I need? And so some things didn't make the list. Things that I like. So for example, cooking. I love to cook. I used to be known for that. I self-published a cookbook called Someone's in the Kitchen with Din to be a good mom. I need to feel like I'm a good mom. Of course, I want to be a great CEO and I have my career aspirations. I want to be good to myself enough that I can be myself and be my happy self. And then I want to be a good wife. Those are like the four things. And so I now, once I've defined that and kind of kicked everything else off, it's manageable. And in a week's time, I have to carve out time to be each of those things. It doesn't just happen. Oh, look, I've got a couple hours off. Let me just

go get a massage. So I carve it out. And so that in a week's time, I do feel like I can say, yes, I hit these points. And so when I look, when I expand that period even longer, and I look at like the last month or the last three months of the last year, I'm really proud of that. But it took work. You had to like carve it in. You mentioned the husband best friend thing. You know, we spend a lot of time together at work, obviously, because we work together. But that's not husband wife time.

Yeah. So carving, being really disciplined to carve that in. But listen, that took like six years of work figuring that out. I feel like I'm only now at a place where we get that we have to carve out that time. Yeah, I think it's one of those cons. I work with my wife also. She's really in the business with us. And same thing. It's just being together all day, every day in the context of the business is not the same thing as being together in the context of your personal relationships. It's worse. Come on. I so agree. I mean, so much of this is about being intentional. It's about saying, okay, so let me understand what really matters to me and let me be really intentional about what I say yes

and no to because it's not just gonna happen yeah yeah and so you say no to things sometimes you want to say yes to but it's not it's not on your top four you know it's not my four buckets I don't do it right now yeah love that so as we sit here coming full circle in this container of the Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? What came up was right now, which is pretty cool. To live a good life, I think you got to feed what you love in exactly the way we just talked about. You know, just identifying the things you love and you want to be remembered by and making sure you feed those not every day, but like in a week or a month, you're going to feel like you live a good life. Yeah. I feel like I'm doing that right now,

even though not everything is secure and feels like we've reached our goals yet. It still feels like a good life. Yeah. So that's kind of cool. Wow. Thank you for that. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool

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