Good Life Project - Radhanath Swami: The Path of Devotion and Service

Episode Date: November 14, 2016

Today's guest is Radhanath Swami, a Vaishnava sanyassin (a monk in a Krishna-bhakti lineage) and teacher of the devotional path of Bhakti-yoga.He is author of The Journey Home, a memoir of his search for spiritual truth. His latest book is The Journey Within: Exploring the Path of Bhakti. His teachings draw from the sacred texts of India such as The Bhagavad-gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, and Ramayana, and aim to reveal the practical application of the sacred traditions, while focusing on the shared essence which unites apparently disparate religious or spiritual paths.Born Richard Slavin, on December 7, 1950, in his teens he came to confront a deep sense of alienation from suburban Chicago life and the civil injustices of mid-century America. At the age of nineteen, while on a summer trip to Europe, his internal struggles culminated in a commitment to search for God wherever it might lead him. Meditating on the Isle of Crete, he felt a supernatural calling and the next morning set off alone to find spiritual India.The Journey Home documents his odyssey as a penniless hitch-hiker though Greece, Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and finally India. There he lived as a wandering ascetic, first amongst the forest dwelling Himalayan yogis and later amongst a wide variety of gurus and spiritual practitioners throughout India and Nepal. Ultimately, he was led to the holy town of Vrindavan, where he found his path amongst the Bhakti-yogis.In Vrindavan he found the teacher he was searching for in A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (1896-1977) the founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), and representative of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, (the Krishna-bhakti tradition stemming from the 16th century mystic avatar Sri Chaitanya). In choosing Bhaktivedanta Swami, as his guru, Radhanath Swami felt compelled to shear his matted locks and reenter Western society with a mission to share the sacred wisdom he had received.This return exemplifies the form of devotional yoga which is at the heart of Radhanath Swami’s teachings, a spiritual practice expressed as tangible action meant to bring about personal fulfillment and benefit the world. At the the age of 31 he took the monastic vows of a Vaishnava sanyassin and became known as Radhanath Swami.Today Radhanath Swami travels regularly throughout India, Europe and North America, sharing the teachings of Bhakti-yoga. He resides much of the year at the Radha Gopinath Ashram in Chowpatty, Mumbai. For the past twenty-five years he has guided the community’s development and has directed a number of acclaimed social action projects including Midday Meals, which daily serves more than 260,000 plates of sanctified vegetarian food to the children of the slums of Mumbai. He has also worked to establish missionary hospitals and eye camps, eco-friendly farms, schools and ashrams, an orphanage, and a number of emergency relief programs throughout India. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Every once in a while, somebody asks me, dude, how do you actually pay to do what you do? How do you make money? And the truth is, the podcast doesn't. This is kind of a labor of love. It's one of the things that I do because I'm a seeker, and I'm always on the hunt for embodied teachers to both sit down with and learn from myself, and then be able to turn around and share them, their beautiful voices, energy, and wisdom with you. As part of that, over the years, I've had the opportunity to see so much

and learn so much that it started to form into really powerful ideas and patterns. And that came together in the form of my new book, How to Live a Good Life. And doing things like creating a book, programs, events, and things like that, that's one of the ways that we're able to create this podcast for you. So if it sounds interesting, if you'd be curious about diving into a single book that brings together so much of the wisdom that's been gathered on this podcast over many years, and really serves as sort of an operating manual for a good life, then please go check it out, How to Live a Good Life. It's available at booksellers pretty much all over the United States, Canada, Australia, the UK, kind of all over the world right now.

And we'll give you a link in the show notes if you want to find it as well. You can also download and read the first chapter completely on me at goodlifeproject.com slash book. On to our show. And the elevation of human consciousness is not the quantity of how we work. It's the quality of what our purpose is. Today's guest, Radha Naswami, came up in the suburbs of Chicago in the 50s and 60s, and it was a time of pretty major civil strife, and he really suffered seeing all the suffering around him. Decided to go on a bit of a walkabout. That took him on a journey into Europe, which then led him through all sorts of other countries from Afghanistan to Iran to Nepal, where he eventually spent years as an aesthetic and found his teacher in India, where he then became a devotee of bhakti yoga,

which is devotional yoga, the yoga of devotion, and has since gone back and forth for the better part of 40 plus years doing incredible acts of service, building institutions that serve more than 300,000 kids who are in need in India, and traveling the world, sharing the message of bhakti yoga, devotion of love. It was really wonderful having an opportunity to sit down with him, talk about not only his journey, his path, and what his practices and his offering is, but also how it relates to the world that we're living in today, and how we can try and bring some of these ideals to experiences in a culture and a community and

things that are happening in the world that are really challenging us. So really excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields. This is Good Life Project. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot.

Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. From about 4 o'clock till the sunrise. Ah. Is that when you rise at about four? Yes. In the Vedic tradition, which I follow, it's called Brahma Mahorta.

It's considered a very sacred time of the day. That's Sanskrit. Sanskrit. What does that translate to, roughly? Brahma means God or the spiritual origin. Mahurta means a time. So it's a time that's especially conducive to reconnect with our true self, with God. And it's a very special time that's very quiet because the society's very active, passionate activities are not really started yet.

It's the time when people who are out most of the night are finally sleeping, and it's before the people who work out most of the night are finally sleeping, and it's before the people who work all day wake up. Right, it's that very tiny window of time where everything just kind of settles. So it's a very, very special time where the atmosphere is very relatively clean for meditation, for chanting God's names, for studying. Can you tell me a little bit about your morning practice? for meditation, for chanting God's names, for studying. Can you tell me a little bit about your morning practice?

Generally rise around four, and at our ashrams and temples we all come together about 4.30 for what is called kirtan or congregational chanting, where we sing different mantras and prayers together, God's names. We follow the path of bhakti. Bhakti means the original love that's within the heart of every living being, which is the potential of the soul, is to love and be compassionate. And that love is within all of us. And bhakti-yoga means to reconnect, union, to reconnect with that love that's within us. So our name of God is Krishna, which means all-attractive. And in the morning we chant these beautiful

prayers, and it's a way of unifying all of our hearts with that one spirit of seva, or service and devotion. And then after that we have personal meditation on our mantras for about an hour and a half, and then we have, usually we study various Hali texts for some time. And then we have more congregational chanting, or kirtan, and then by then it's time for breakfast. And then people perform whatever activities they have in the day. Yeah, I'm just thinking the level of communion and intentionality that infuses your day before the average person wakes up is kind of stunning. The principle is that if we have a strong foundation, then what we build on that foundation has great substance, because through the day there's many storms, temptations, fears, challenges,

and in order to pass through those with integrity, with dignity, with peace, with compassion, it's important that we have a foundation. Just like in a building, if the foundation is strong, then even if there's a storm, the building will stand. But if the foundation's weak, however magnificent the appearance of the building is, it will crumble if there's a storm. So, you know, to remember God, to be in harmony with God. When we're in harmony with God, we're in harmony with our true self. We're naturally in harmony with other living beings, and we're in harmony with the environment, with nature. Yoga means that, union or harmony. When our body and our mind is in harmony with our spiritual force, the soul, and when our soul is in harmony

with God, with each other, and with nature, then our life is harmonious. But we need a good foundation in order to do that. So we start each day by developing that foundation through quiet spiritual practice. Yeah, it's striking also, it feels like so much of modern day life is you open your eyes. The latest research I've seen is that a frightening number of people sleep with their devices, either next to them or even in bed with them. And the first thing they do when they open their eyes is not time with God, time in communion, time finding stillness,

time in meditation. It's time reacting, time immediately checking and reacting. And I often wonder what that's not just doing to our brains, but our lives. It's very true. So often people are so obsessed with the quantity of what can be accomplished or what could be acquired that we disconnect with the quality of our life. And the quality of life is based on our relationships with people, our relationships with nature,

our relationships with our true self and with God. That brings quality life. And when we connect with that quality life, then even if we're striving in our world of spiritual path. In Eastern tradition, more Buddhism, I guess, my understanding, and this is a struggle that I've had. I've spent time with the Bhagavad Gita and the panashads and various texts and various teachers, and the idea of striving without attachment, or can you have one without the other? I'm curious, I would love to hear more around the idea of integrating,

striving into your life in a way that's healthy and supportive. This is really addressing the very heart of the Bhagavad Gita and so many of the great spiritual texts. And it's very much at the heart of bhakti, or the yoga of devotion. Krishna tells in Bhagavad Gita that we should not be attached to the results of our activities, but we should be attached to the quality of why we're doing it, and who we're doing it for, and the integrity in which we do it.

The real success of our life is in that quality, not in the quantity of what we receive from a material perspective. Because in many ways, what the material results are is beyond our control, whoever we are. But the goodness of our intention, the sincerity of our compassion, is within our control. So the Gita teaches that we should strive to do the best we can in whatever occupation we're in. Whether in business or engineering or science or education or farming or banking, we obviously need to strive because it's a competitive world. But it should not be with greed. It should not be with arrogance, with envy. It should be in a spirit of expressing our gratitude and our compassion in our life. Tell me how attachment interacts with that.

I mean, you've spoken to it to a certain extent, you know, in Arjuna's quest and the conversation with Krishna. In the context of everyday life, I guess this is the struggle, and to a certain extent I'm trying to pass through the conversations I've had with listeners, because I wonder if this would be a question they would love to hear your wisdom on, which is the idea of, it feels very difficult, the notion of putting all of your efforts, all of your energies into striving for something without forming an attachment to attaining it. You look at, from a practical real-world standpoint,

scientists, researchers who are trying to come up with a cure for a pervasive disease in society. And while many researchers are absolutely just driven by the process of discovery, Richard Feynman, famous physicist, it was about the joy of figuring the thing out. this striving does the work towards some auspicious end still happen if we truly detach from attaining that end? I'll give an analogy and then try to explain it further. A mother will strive 24 hours a day if necessary to take care of her baby child. She's not making money.

She's not getting power. She's not getting fame. But she will strive as hard or harder than any businessman or scientist because she loves the child. So love is the most powerful motivator. So if what we're doing, and this is the very heart of the Gita, if whatever occupation we have, if we tune in to our true self, and when we tune in to the true self, we tune in to God.

And there's a beautiful verse that when you water the root of the tree, the water will naturally go to every leaf, flower, and twig of the tree. So when we actually tune in to our true self, we tune in to God, then we naturally understand our relationship and the love that is within us extends toward all living beings, toward the environment, because they're all connected to God. We see every living being as a child, a brother and sister,

and we see the environment as the sacred property of God. And then we're striving, but not with greed, not to exploit. We're striving because we have a higher purpose to express our love and be compassionate. In our ashram in Mumbai where I live, there are simple farmers who are just growing a few crops, but they're doing it in a spirit of love and devotion to God and sharing whatever they have with others. And we also have multi-multi-millionaires and even some billionaires

who are doing the same thing as the farmer in the sense that they're working really hard, international competition, but they're not just doing it out of greed. They're doing it so that with whatever their gain, they can actually be instruments of compassion and kindness to others with that, through spiritual, social activism.

So you could be motivated by compassion, by love, like the mother, or you could be motivated by greed and a desire for power and a desire for selfish interests. And the elevation of human consciousness is not the quantity of how we work, it's the quality of what our purpose is. I love the idea of being an instrument of compassion and love. on in the world today, I don't know whether there's so much transparency and so much coverage

at this point that we're just seeing a lot more of the opposite of love and compassion, or whether somehow there is more of the opposite. And I wonder if being tuned into the media in any form or the online world tells a story of more separatism and isolation and self-satisfaction, judgment, hatred, than compassion, love, service. And because

it feels like if you want to move into this world today from a place of love, from a place of generosity and compassion, devotion, that the forces coming against you are big and bold. And my sense is that a lot of people are really struggling with this. How to lead from this place of pure heart in a world that feels like it's going the opposite direction. For that very reason, it's very important that we have a moral, ethical and spiritual foundation in our life. Because there are so many storms that will inevitably come upon

us during our days. To be with people who inspire us with positive, moral, spiritual energy, is very important, because we're very much influenced by our company. I'm often invited to be guest speaker at Alcoholics Anonymous when I'm in India. And it's interesting because so many people I know all over the world have been drug addicts, alcoholics, and this organization gives them such strength to overcome it and sustain their soberness because they're with people who support them. They're with people who understand them. And in a similar way on a spiritual level,

community is very important. To have the company of people who spiritually inspire us, who give us faith and hope, who help to see the goodness in ourselves. And then with that confidence, we have a spiritual practice, whether it's meditation, prayer. In our tradition, we chant God's names. And that connection really gives us a strength that is beyond our mind and beyond our senses and beyond our intelligence. It's the strength of grace. Just like a satellite television. If you press a button, you tune into one frequency of a channel, and you get a soap opera from New York City. And you press another button,

and you get news from Los Angeles. You press another button, and there's a cricket match in India. So you're tuning into these frequencies, and according to what you tune into, you access that. So similarly, in this world that we're living in, there's greed, there's generosity,

there's envy, there's compassion, there's arrogance, there's humility, and there's grace. Grace is the most powerful of all energies. And through our spirituality, when we do our meditation, when we do our chanting, whatever prayer, we can tune into that grace. And that grace is so powerful. It can forgive us of our transgressions. It can empower us to be instruments of that grace in our life. And then the rest of our day becomes something very meaningful and very beautiful because we're instruments of that compassion, as you said, in whatever we may do. At a time where my sense is the experience of grace is so foreign to so many, how do

we know what that feels like anymore? How do we know when we're in it? First of all, we have to learn how to tune into that frequency. And that's what the holy books and the holy teachers are teaching us. And then when we actually tune into that frequency, then we know it's an experience where we can truly appreciate that the value of service is far more satisfying than the value of our selfish aspirations. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever,

making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required,

charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg.

You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot? Flight risk. Is grace, as you're sort of describing grace, the phrase Jeeva Mukti came into my head, which my understanding translates roughly to liberated being,

which I've always looked at as something that in a practice you might strive to explore, but very few people ever actually experience. And so when you're talking, my first thing is grace that same state. My sense is it's not. And tell me if I'm projecting or hoping, maybe, that grace is something that very likely exists all around us and within us all the time, and it's less about creating it, and it's more about reconnecting with it. Exactly. Grace is not created. God is the extension of his love to every living being, which is forever.

It's like the sun. It's shining for everyone at noon. And some people are in a cave, and some people come out in the sunshine. Grace is that sunshine. It's the extension of God's love, God's compassion. And our spiritual practice is meant to take us out of the cave of our selfish egoism, those tendencies, and actually experience the light of God's love in the form of grace. And once we experience that, then our greatest joy in life is to share that with others.

It seems one of the aspirations or one of the things that we might work towards is deepening self-knowledge. And you can go to school in the United States to study all sorts of fields, professional education, get certifications and degrees. What are the first steps for us to start to take, following the name of your recent book, The Journey Within, to the process of self-discovery that searches inside of ourselves and really asks the question, who am I? What matters to me? What's the entry point?

That's the beginning. When we have an experience in our life that there is something beyond all these ever-changing experiences of life. There's a proverb, you can tell how rich you are by counting how many things you have that money can't buy. Because we see in the world, you know, there's people who really have very little materially in their suffering. But we see that even the wealthiest millionaires and billionaires are suffering. Essentially in the same way, but apparently in different ways. There's suffering of the body and mind, there's suffering caused by other living beings, there's suffering caused by natural disturbances, and they apply to everyone. And whether we fulfill our material ambitions and we realize this isn't really where it's at.

I remember one of my dear friends was very close with George Harrison of the Beatles. And when he was on the top of the world with the Beatles, he had wealth, he had fame, he was young, he was tremendously talented as a musician. Everything he was striving for, he had it. But he understood he didn't really have anything. There must be something beyond this. There must be something deeper than this. Because, you know, when we don't have something,

we think we'll be happy when we have it, but when we have it, there's not much more happiness. So what is it? So, you know, that led him to the spiritual path. So it's very important, beginning in our spiritual life, to recognize that there is something very beautiful and very wonderful at the core of being a living being. And what is that? What is beyond death? Is there something? And all the great sages and yogis and saints have taught us that there is something beyond the flickering, changing world and beyond death.

And it begins with a sincere inquiry at this point. Who really am I? If I'm going to be happy, who really am I? If you ask a person who they are, we get so many common answers. You get a name, but you could change your name. You get a nationality, but you could change your nationality. You could change your occupation. You could change your religion.

You could change your sex. Practically everything's changing. We're young. Whether we like it or not, we're going to change and become old. So these are all changing things. So who is it that's witnessing all these changes? Is it the mind? The mind, how fast that could change.

One moment you're really happy, and then the next moment you're depressed. That's the nature of the mind. Accepting, rejecting. Anchoring, lamenting. Who's the nature of the mind, accepting, rejecting, anchoring, lamenting. Who's the witness? Who am I, that changeless person that's going through all these experiences? The body and mind are like a vehicle, the interior and exterior of a vehicle, but we're the driver. We're seeing through the windshield.

We're seeing through our eyes. We're hearing through our ears. We're thinking through our brain. Who am I? And in order to really understand that, there are sacred texts. There are saintly persons who lead us in a direction. But then we have to take that responsibility

to follow that direction, to actually have direct experience. In the Bible it is said, What profiteth the person who gains the whole world but looses her eternal soul? And in the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna tells, na jayate mriyate vakadachit, that the true self is beyond birth and beyond death, eternal. And what is the nature of the self? What is the nature of the soul? What is the nature of the soul

that's beyond birth and death? It's to feel the infinite, limitless, sweet love of God which comes through grace everywhere. To tune into that grace and to be an instrument of that grace through seva, through service in whatever we may do. And then our occupation, our activities become part of our yoga process, part of our spiritual path. Once my guru, Prabhupada, was asked,

why did you come to this country of America? It was in New York City. He came in 1965 to bring this message of bhakti. And he said, I have not come to convert. I have come to enlighten. I've just come to remind you of what you have forgotten, that you're a beautiful part of God, and there's love for God within your heart,

and you're beautiful souls with a beautiful potential. I've just come to remind you, and through his path, through chanting God's names and living a life in harmony with our spiritual nature, then that love awakens.

When I think about the word God, and it's a word that you're very comfortable with, when we step outside of this room and God is seen in different ways by different people and defined in different ways, sometimes in ways that bring us together. But increasingly in the world around us, it seems in ways that not only drive us apart

but are used as rationale for violence against each other. I know you've written about and spoken about your understanding of God and of there essentially being this one presence that people speak of differently. Take me to the conversation around that a little bit. We were giving the analogy of the sun.

In India, the sun is surya. In English, we say the sun. In Mexico, I believe it's sol. So, every language has a different name for the sun. And the sun does rise in Mexico, and it rises in India, it rises in America. So when the sun rises in America, is it an American sun? When the sun rises in India, is it an Indian sun? The sun is the sun. It has many names. In a similar way, the Bhagavad Gita tells, yadah yadahi dharmasya klanir bhavati bharata

abhyutanam dharmasya tadatmanams rajamyaham This is Sanskrit. It means the one supreme truth, the father, the mother, the origin of all living beings and everything that exists, the ultimate object of love, the ultimate object of our heart's deepest aspiration to love and be loved appears with different names, in different ways, with different forms, throughout history, but essentially to teach us the same message,

which in Sanskrit is called sanatana dharma. Who really are we? Dharma means occupation. It can also mean religion. It can also mean spiritual path. It can mean nature, too. Our true nature is to love.

That's what everybody is longing for. Ananda mayo byashat. Everyone is looking for pleasure. The little ant, or the cockroach, depending on where we're living. New York City, we probably have more of this here. Or the not-so-little rats. Or the not-so-little rats in the alleys. It may sometimes get into our homes. They're just looking for pleasure.

And the billionaire is looking for pleasure. And the middle class is looking for pleasure. Everyone's looking for pleasure. Wherever there's life, there's a search for pleasure. And the reason we don't like pain is because it interferes with our aspiration for pleasure. Why do we all have that in common? According to the Vedas, the Gita, it's because the living force within all of us

is Satchitananda, is eternal, full of knowledge, and full of pleasure. And what is that pleasure? Things could give some sense of satisfaction to the mind and the senses, but not the heart. If you take a little girl, say four years old,

and give her so many beautiful dresses and jewelries and toys and computer technology games, but you don't give her love, she may look pretty, but she's going to live in misery. Because ultimately, the only thing that will satisfy her heart is to love and be loved. And that's true for all of us. So to find that love is what Sanatana Dharma is. God descends into this world with many names and

many forms and speaks many languages throughout history to actually help us to understand the real direction that can bring us real satisfaction within our life. And that is the journey within. And to live in harmony with our own true nature, our own spiritual nature. So that's the essence. And unfortunately in today's world, people are so obsessed

with the external language of their religion or their spiritual path, with the particular rituals of their religion, that anything that's different, people can feel very insecure or very threatened. But if we understand the true essence of our own spiritual path, then we'll be able to really deeply, not only tolerate but appreciate and love the true essence

in all true spiritual paths. It's not a matter of being a Hindu or a Muslim or a Christian or a Jew or a Jain or a Sikh or a Parsi or an agnostic or an atheist. It's a matter of seeing the true equality of all living beings by connecting to our own true nature and understanding the first and great commandment is to love God. And when we find that essence, when we understand that essence in our own spiritual path, then we really, really can live in harmony

and with gratitude toward all the various spiritual paths in the world. So the problem is not religion. The problem is an external, superficial conception of religion, which is used by the ego. The basis of all spiritual paths is to help us to go beyond the ego, to transcend the false ego and understand the true nature of ourself and God. But unfortunately, throughout history it's been like this. People use religion as a weapon to defend their false ego. Rather than making us humble and grateful

and compassionate, it's a way of giving absolute justification for our false ego to act according to its whims. Whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun

January 24th Tell me how to fly this thing Mark Wahlberg You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die Don't shoot him, we need him Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk

A little while back I had the opportunity to spend some time with Sakyam Bhim Rinpoche, who's now head of Shambhala Buddhist lineage. And he's written about his firm belief that was handed down by his dad, Trungpa Rinpoche, that the fundamental nature of people is that we're good. And I said, really? And I so want to believe that. And it sounds, you know, from the way that everything that you've offered, it comes from that fundamental assumption that our essential nature is goodness, is loveness, is compassion, is generosity, is kindness. And I do think I believe that. But sometimes I'm challenged when I just look at what's around us today, especially when you want to move through the day coming from that place. But I think that's a lot of the work that

we're trying to do with these conversations, with the community that we're building at Good Life Project. And clearly, the work that you're doing in the world and on a much larger scale, the communities and service projects and everything that you've been building, you came to your spiritual path in an interesting way to your own personal journey. I would love to explore a little bit. You grew up outside of Chicago, brought up in a Jewish family. What was your earliest experience of faith or religion or spirituality? My family were religious not in a ritualistic way,

but in the way they express their feeling of responsibility to God through taking care of the family. You know, my mother, my father, my uncles, my aunts, my grandparents, they express their religion through their acts in that way. They weren't so formally connected with the ritual aspect of the religion. But when I was growing up, I saw, as you were expressing, so much hatred in the name of a loving God, so much arrogance,

where I see we're supposed to be learning to be humble. And it really confused me. And I came to a point where I became more of a social activist to try to make changes in the world. And this was the 50s and 60s also, where there was tremendous civil unrest. Yeah, this was and this was a moment in our history. This was the 1960s when I was just coming into my teenage years, and I was just caught

between so many confusing situations. But even through my social activism, I could understand that unless there's really a goodness of the heart, it's not sustainable. It's almost hypocrisy. And I wanted to find that goodness of heart. And it led me on a spiritual search. But then there was a crossroads. Because of so much arrogance and hatred in the name of a loving God, I either have to reject religion

or I have to find that essence within it. And I just believed to the very core of my heart that that essence was there. And I began to study various spiritual faiths to try to find that essence. And in my own search, I went to Europe when I was a teenager, and I ended up hitchhiking through Europe, studying Judaism and Christianity. And I hitchhiked through Turkey, studying Judaism and Christianity, and I hitchhiked through Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan. I studied Islam, and I came to India and traveled to many holy places in the Himalayas and in the plains, and I studied various forms of Buddhism, Hinduism, yoga. And I was finding that essence in all these spiritual paths. And I was also finding

so much sectarianism, so much judgmentalism, and so much arrogance in each and every one of these spiritual paths. And it fascinated me in the sense that through both the challenges and the heartbreaking situations I was in and the beautiful experiences with enlightened souls, it deepened my faith that there was something beautiful at the heart of it and I must find it. And it ultimately, by God's grace, it brought me to the path of bhakti, where I found something very, very beautiful. The name Krishna is the name of the Supreme Being, and it means all-attractive.

It means all-beautiful. It's where the ultimate power of God is in sweetness, love, and compassion, and to somehow or other reconnect ourselves with that compassion. The journey that you took brought you to the other side of the world through a lot of experiences, a lot of study, through years of asceticism also, and I imagine a certain amount of suffering along the way and discovery. For somebody who is listening to this as they're going from one stop to the next stop, this conversation, and something is awakening inside of them, and they're saying, huh, I buy this, but I don't want to go on that journey. Are there shortcuts along a spiritual path?

If there are, I haven't found any. But I wonder if some people hear conversations like we're having, and ideas like you're offering, say, yeah, I get it. I believe it. It resonates. But it seems like everybody who's gotten there has gone through some sort of long, deep, intense hero's heroine's journey that involved a great deal of disruption and suffering. Can I get to a similar place in my life without that?

I traveled across the world to find my path. And I came back to visit my parents, and I remember sitting in their back porch and with full conviction understanding whatever I found there was right here. I really didn't have to go anywhere. The journey home is the journey within our own hearts. We can connect to that joy of the soul wherever we are.

But sometimes throughout history, we get inspired by people's long, treacherous, dangerous journeys to find it, and then we actually really appreciate what it is that they strive for. But then we should understand that I really don't have to go on any external journey. I just have to learn how to know myself, to live in harmony with our own souls, body, mind, and soul, in harmony, to not exploit nature, but to learn to respect nature, to not exploit each other, but to learn to respect and appreciate each other. We may have a best friend who has cancer.

We hate the disease, but we love the person who's diseased. So inherently, like your teacher taught you, everyone is good. Everyone is part of God in our tradition. Everybody is related. But somehow or other, this ego is like a disease. And the symptoms of the disease may be greed,

it may be violence, it may be hatred, it may be so many things. Depression. But we should see that the person is suffering these conditions, but the person, him or herself, is actually a beautiful child of the same supreme being. And then, even when we are activists against injustices, we don't do it with hatred, we do it with compassion.

And that potential is in all of us. We don't have to go to India to find it. But it may help to go somewhere, to a holy place or something, to actually make a connection where we recognize that it is within myself. But one can become a fully enlightened soul in Manhattan Island of New York City if we sincerely take to our spiritual path. For that, you know, we need teachers who could really show us the way. We need the association of people who really inspire us. And we need a spiritual

practice that can actually awaken that potential. Indeed. Chanting God's names is a very, very simple method of awakening that potential that actually anyone could do anywhere with sincerity. I remember a couple of years back being in a room at a yoga studio in New York City

with Krishna Das and Kirtanwala and maybe a hundred people chanting late into the evening. I'm guessing out of a hundred people 98 had no idea what any of the words that we were chanting meant yet there was an energy

there was it's not a mood there was something that happened in the room that elevated everyone even having no understanding there was no translation of the kirtan. And it was a typical call and response. And it was magical.

And I think sometimes even if we, like you said, we don't have to go across the world. In fact, I sometimes wonder, so many times it's within, but also even if we just need to change places and be with other people in a place where there's some guidance and we're reminded, you know, this is a place where we can touch stone together, we can touch back into ourselves. I wonder too sometimes if the opposite phenomenon occurs, which is that somebody says, I'm ready. I'm ready for my journey. They've gone through a series of unfortunate moments in their lives or seasons, and I'm ready. And they pick up and they disrupt everything, and they travel across the world. And they go from place to place and find different teachers and different communities and spend time in different places, only to find that the change in external environment did nothing to give them what they wanted.

And it wasn't until the moment they made a choice to open from the inside out that everything changed. Because I've seen that happen. People thinking the problem is where they are or that they don't have the right tools yet or the right location. So I wonder if it's that blend of, sure, the journey,

the change of location, the being around people where you can open, where you can unfold is important. But until you actually decide, yes, I'm in, and then take action on that choice. Nothing else matters. When we're sincere to understand what's beyond the selfish aspirations of my life and what I'm seeing around me, then we become receptive.

And it's not so much where we are but who we're with that helps us to really make that connection. I've lived in caves in the Himalayan jungles, and I met very enlightened people. But I also met people who were extremely arrogant, extremely selfish. Even though they were fasting and they were living in a cave. They didn't have much clothes. They had a lot of arrogance and they had a lot of negativity. And I have been seeing in even big cities people who are very enlightened, who are very deeply and peaceful in the love of their soul.

So I've seen both in the jungles of the Himalayas, and I've seen both in cities like Mumbai and Calcutta and New York and London. So it's not a matter of where we are. It's a matter of what we aspire to be and how we connect and how we integrate our lifestyle, whatever it may be, and our occupation with our real Dharma, with the inherent nature of the soul. So I want to come full circle. The name of this is Good Life Project. So if I offer that term out to you, to live a good life, what comes up? We should each recognize what our potential is and who we are. We're all part of the same God.

We are all truly, eternally beautiful beings. We're all eternally, truly happy, loving beings. That's who we are. Nothing and no one can ever take away from us. But we ourselves can forget it. And we can be vulnerable towards situations and people that cause us to further forget it. Or we can make a commitment to actually recognize that beyond my vulnerabilities,

beyond my propensities to fall into depression or sadness or greed or endless longings that are not fulfilled, whatever, heartbreak. There's something that is beyond that, and that's who I am. And we have to keep focused on the true beauty that nothing and no one can take away from us, our inherent nature. And to pursue in our life people and a spiritual path that actually help to awaken the truth of my potential. To love, to be an instrument of compassion, is the real beauty of life. It's who we are, it's who we've always been, and who we always will be.

But how long are we going to be in forgetfulness of that? That's the question we should ask ourselves. And when we really are determined, yes, I want to make a positive difference in my life, and I want to really make a positive difference in this world, and I want to reconnect and have that spiritual foundation I could build my life upon, then we will seek out people who will enlighten us, and we'll seek out a spiritual path, not a sectarian concept, but something that will

actually bring out that divinity. The word mantra, man means the mind, trayate means to liberate. Sri Chaitanya, who is one of the great avatars of India, he taught that the mind is like a mirror. And when you look in the mirror, you're supposed to see yourself. But when the mirror is covered by layers and layers of dust and debris and pollution, then when you look in the mirror, all you see is that dust. And we think, that's me. Spiritual process, in our tradition, is chanting God's names especially. It's a method of cleansing the mirror of the

mind. And when the mind becomes clean, cleansed of the dust and the debris of envy and arrogance and selfish passions and greed and illusions. In other words, these are various byproducts of the false ego. As the mind becomes cleaned through our spiritual process and through our lifestyle, then we actually see who we really are. And we see we're part of God. We're truly beautiful people. Let the shine of my beauty come through whatever I'm doing. And that's good life. Thank you. Hey, thanks so much for listening. We love sharing real unscripted conversations and ideas that matter.

And if you enjoy that too, and if you enjoy what we're up to, I'd be so grateful if you take just a few seconds and rate and review the podcast. It really helps us get the word out. You can actually do that now right from the podcast app on your phone. If you have an iPhone, you just click on the reviews tab and take a few seconds and jam over there. And if you haven't yet subscribed while you're there, then make sure you hit the subscribe button while you're at it. And then you'll be sure to never miss out on any of our incredible guests or conversations or riffs. And for those of you, our awesome community who are on other platforms, any love that you might be able to offer sharing

our message would just be so appreciated. Until next time, this is Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

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