Good Life Project - Rebecca Minkoff: Building a Global Brand and a Good Life.

Episode Date: December 4, 2018

Ever wonder if it’s possible to build a flourishing career and global brand, without going to college?Growing up in San Diego and Tampa, Rebecca Minkoff (http://www.rebeccaminkoff.com/) learned at a young age, if she wanted something, she’d have to work for it, or make it herself. That work ethic led her to begin making her own clothes in her early teens, then designing and creating costumes for theater in high-school.Desperate to leave Tampa behind as soon as she could, but not feeling college, she headed to New York at 18 years old and began to work in the world of fashion and design, learning everything from design to all aspects of business. She began making her own designs and, working tirelessly, created a single t-shirt that would seed the launch of a business that would grow to produce an iconic line of handbags, apparel, accessories, footwear, jewelry and build a global brand.And, more recently, she’s headed into entirely new territory with the launch of her own podcast, Superwomen (https://www.rebeccaminkoff.com/pages/superwomen) which celebrates the multidimensionality of women, from CEOs to chefs, entrepreneurs to instructors who shape culture, change the world, and lift each other up along the way.We talk about all of this and much more in today’s Good Life Project episode.-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So I'm kind of fascinated by people who have decided to opt out of college and then ended up building really substantial companies, enterprises, brands that make giant differences out there. Today's guest, Rebecca Minkoff, is one amazing example of this. Growing up in San Diego and Tampa, she learned at a really young age if she wanted something, she'd have to work for it or make it herself. And that ethic led her to begin making her own clothes in her early teens, then eventually leaving Tampa behind to head straight to New York, where she wasn't feeling college.

She actually tried it for a few weeks worth of evening courses, and it just wasn't working for her. So she went into the world of fashion and design, learning every aspect of the business that she could, eventually started making her own things and working just relentlessly to find her way. She created a single t-shirt that would eventually seed the launch of a company that would grow an iconic line of handbags, apparel, accessories, footwear, jewelry, and really build it into a global enterprise. More recently, she is actually even heading into an entirely new territory with the

launch of her own podcast, Superwomen, which celebrates the multidimensionality of women, from CEOs to chefs, entrepreneurs, and all sorts of different people who shape culture, change the world, and really lift each other up along the way. We talk about all of this, along with myths and truths about founding and building a company. We dive into the choice to opt into or out of secondary education and so many other different places. We talk about building a mega brand around a personal name, around a set of values and transparency in the world that we live in today and building something where you're really adopting and standing behind a larger set of public values as well. Really fascinating. I learned a ton from this conversation.

So excited to share this with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg.

You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever,

making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Right now you're riding atop this empire, but you had to start from like something. And I'm always curious when somebody builds a substantial company that seems to be very passion driven and deeply connected to something that you love to make or create.

Like when do you remember the earliest seeds of that taking root? I have a very clear memory, which is kind of the beginning origin story of desperately wanting this dress when I was eight that I saw in a store window. And my mom was like, nope, I'm not buying that for you, but I will buy you a pattern and I will buy you the fabric of your choice and I will teach you how to make it. And one would be like, oh, that sounds so great. But as an eight-year-old, you're like, no, I just want the dress, mom. But what happened was I really fell in love with sewing. And then as an awkward teenager who got bullied for being too thin, which I should have said, yeah, you're just jealous.

It really was, you know, hard to find clothes that fit me. So to have the power to alter my own clothing and find stuff at thrift stores, alter it or make my own things was really confidence building. And so that's kind of where the seed of being a designer one day began. Yeah. Were you, so was your mom then somebody who was very much a maker or crafty or? You know, she was prior to having kids, which I now understand why you would not be able to do anything else once you have children, being that I have three myself, but she made her own engagement, I guess, post-wedding dress slash engagement dress. She was a hippie, so they made a lot of things.

So I didn't see a lot of that, but I probably absorbed it because as soon as I could start making things I did, whether it was paper or candles or my own clothes, that was all stuff I loved to do. That's awesome. Where'd you grow up? I grew up half in San Diego till I was 10. And then my dad, he was a doctor and he needed a sabbatical and he uprooted us to Florida. And that was the end of my life. I was miserable. And he's like, it's just for six months. I need a mental break. And then at six months, he sat me down. He's like, we're not going to go back. And then my life was really over all over again.

Yeah. Where in Florida were you? In Tampa. And then at 18, I was out. I couldn't get out fast enough. Right. I mean, but how do you like, I mean, that's kind of devastating, especially at that age, because you're really looking for roots and friendship means everything. Correct. I had an incredible social circle, you know, of girls I had grown up from like birth to 10. And I had sort of projected my future of San Diego and suddenly you're uprooted into this place. I'll never forget it. My dad was like, but we're going to live on the beach and there's sand at our footsteps. And we got to this place.

It was like an interim apartment building until we could move into the house. And I was, I said, dad, where's the sand? And he like picked up in Florida where you live, the dirt is sand. So he picked up the dirt. He's like, it's sand. Anyways, it was, it was awful. Now as a parent, I love it. And I think it's a great place to raise kids.

But when it happens to you and you have to rebuild your whole network and who you identify with, it was challenging for me for a long time. Yeah. I mean, that's also interesting. You said your dad was a physician? Yeah, he still is, but different field now. Right. Because that's also the type of career where usually you don't shake things up a whole lot. Sort of like you build your practice,

you stay where you are and you basically just keep doing the same thing and in the same place until it's time to retire. So that's some major shakeup. Yes, he had a huge disagreement with his partners and then said, I need six months off. And then randomly got an offer for an ER doctor. And he'd never done that before and got into that.

And then you should talk to him. And then he got into alternative medicine. So his path is completely not the norm. Oh, that's amazing. So alternative medicine, that sounds like it was pretty early for that. Yes. He's been part of lots of experimental stuff. That will remain untalked about.

That's so you were exposed to your mom and you're exposed to that. How transparent was your dad about sort of like the shifts and things that were going on when you were a kid versus sort of like you now knowing as a adult what was really happening? I didn't have an awareness of, you know, that he wanted a sabbatical because he disagreed with his partners. I just, they just said, listen, we want to take a break, move to a new spot. It's warm there all the time. It's similar weather. And so that was my awareness at the time. Now, looking back, I can see how having, owning a business, how you could have disagreements. You'd kind of want to start fresh. You know, sometimes I go, maybe we should just pick up and move to Montana. That sounds wonderful. We're not going to do that, but we talk about it.

It's like, I think every New Yorker has a fantasy of sort of just saying, okay, I'm done. I'm moving out where there's just open fields, mountains, or a beautiful, quiet ocean or something like that. Totally. The other hot topic in the household is let's move to Greece. My husband will open a scooter shop and I'll make, I'll make sandwiches because I'm a really good sandwich maker. Like you have a fallback plan, right? Totally. Like if anything happens here, that's what's happening with the family. That's where we'll be. That's pretty awesome. Um, so if your dad was a physician and you said like you're, you're kind of was surrounded by like a hippie vibe that came from your mom then?

Definitely my mom. I mean, my parents were not, even though my dad worked in a conservative profession, they, I guess, weren't conservative in terms of some of the ways we were raised. You know, we were not taught that we had to aspire to go to college or have a certain career. That's probably where the hippie comes in. They're like, if you want to go to college or have a certain career. That's probably where the hippie comes in. They're like, if you want to go to college, cool. If you don't, get to work. Grades were important, but they weren't the things within the household, like being a New Yorker and seeing how competitive the education field here is.

It's crazy in the city. Yeah, so my parents, I guess, hippiness and sort of relaxedness in those areas made it so that we had to do well in school, but it wasn't like to get on a certain track to then become a certain profession. Yeah. So it's like apply yourself because that's just what you do. But whether it's grades, whether it's just finding your thing, it was all good. Yeah. So you get turned on to making your own stuff at a really young age.

Did that take hold? Like, did you continue doing that Did that take hold? Like, did you continue doing that from that moment forward? I did. It's kind of a long circular path, but I was also in love with dance. And so I started dancing and I applied to attend a performing arts high school. And I applied for three things, creative writing, art, and dance, and got into all three, and then decided, you know what, I really want to be a dancer when I grow up.

I'm going to pursue this path. And I guess the fortunate or unfortunate devil wears Prada-like mentality of the dance teachers, they picked their favorites. I was not one of them. And in addition to that, I was too tall and I couldn't partner and I would ruin the symmetry of being in the core. So really had this allotted time of four hours a day, no electives, just four hours a day where I could be dancing

or I could be in the costume department. And I really decided, well, they don't want me dancing and they're not supporting me at all. Let me go into the costume department. So she, the teacher really could see that I had a passion. And so taught me things that when I moved to New York and enrolled at FIT for the six weeks that I was there, I was like, oh, I've learned this already. So I really got a headstart on sewing, on pattern, draping, did all those school costumes. So really just found my place, whether it was by choice or not. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like this type of thing where, I mean, for those four hours a day, this type of thing where you really just got lost in it eventually. I loved it. It was challenging. Dressing the human form might seem easy, but especially

when you're designing costumes and it's also about a theme or a personality or getting into someone's head and showcasing that through their outfits and some stuff for movement. As a dancer, you need to be able to move in your costume. So it was just fun to learn all these different aspects of costume making. Yeah. So what makes you want to go to FIT then? I moved to New York when I was 18. I had a paid internship, paid being like whatever minimum wage was back in 1999. Not a lot.

And my aunt, who is conservative, who missed the hippie, she was 10 years older than my mom, was like, you've got to go to school. No one succeeds without college. And she lived here and she was just this pressure. And I was like, maybe she's right. I'll see. I'll enroll and I'll go to night classes and I'll just see if I feel like this makes sense to me. So you came to New York. It wasn't because you were accepted at FIT and that was your plan.

You just came to New York. I came to New York being accepted to go work for this designer for an internship. So I also was lonely. Everyone at the office that I worked at was 30 ancient old people. And I thought that at FIT, I might find people my age. So I went and did night classes for a semester and I was like, get me out of here. I will die. No offense to anybody who took that path, but I just felt like I couldn't breathe. I need to just start working and just focus on that and learning the skills that I hadn't spent the last four years learning. Yeah. So when it becomes clear that that's not right for you,

it sounds like your parents were probably pretty cool with that. But was it Ann who was like, you have to do this? She did. She could only push me so much. I knew I didn't have to listen to her. So I was like, listen, I tried it. It's not for me. And I'm going to keep working. And we'll see what happens.

My parents were like, whatever you want to do. They also weren't, just to be transparent, paying for any of this. So they were just like, however you're going to live and however you're going to pay your bills and pay for school or whatever, that's on you. Right. So you really didn't feel beholden. But even so, it just kind of, there's so much, I think, pressure these days to push kids into a really well-defined academic path, at least through college. And these days, I think even it's a lot of that's extending to grad school. And for some kids, it's right. You know, for some kids, they'll get a lot out of it. But the financial equation, especially, is just very different than it used to be a

generation or two ago. It's horrifically different. I mean, my husband went to UCLA, and his entire four years at UCLA cost what one year of us sending our child to private school in New York City costs, you know? So when you look at that, you're just like, something's wrong here. But I will tell you, my son, who's seven, will be like, when I go to college and I'm like, uh-uh, buddy, let's roll back. Do you even know what college is? And no, you're actually not allowed to go to college unless you want to be a doctor or a lawyer. Or you're going to like enroll in a music institute and you're going to like learn your craft. I was like, there's no just going to college for you. So I think it, I'm passing it on.

That's all I'll say. It's like you have to prove that there's like a legit reason to go to college if you want to do it. Yeah. That's an interesting approach. We didn't take that one. I mean, it's such an interesting, it's just a very different exploration right now. But I don't think many people are exploring it differently the way that you're thinking about it. And clearly that's got to be largely because you took a different path and

it's worked for you. I think it has. I mean, everyone's going to have a different path. There's not one prescribed way, but I feel like I have a lot of friends that didn't know what they wanted to do in college was just the delay for them. So I just didn't want my kid to feel that pressure. I'd rather he like take off for a year and go travel and learn by being in different cultures and immersed in different things and just see what happens. Yeah, I pretty much agree with that. So you find yourself then in New York, you're opting out of college, still working the day job in the environment with the ancient people in their early 30s? In their early 30s, yes. So pre-internet, with the job that I had,

I was an intern for six months, and then I asked if they would hire me, and they did. And I was on the design team. There was only so much work you could do in a day. And then you were done, and there was nothing else you could do. Yeah. What kind of company was it? What were they actually making? He was making high-end men's shirts for women. So he had the type of client base that didn't think twice about spending $500 to $1,000 on a really well-crafted shirt.

And he had avid collectors of these shirts. A woman in Texas had, you know, a dry cleaning rack in her house to house all her collection of his stuff. So he only had a finite size of his collection and a finite amount of materials. And then when you were done, I was literally twiddling my thumbs. And so the CEO got savvy and sort of had me help other areas out of the company. And then if I finished my work early, then she's like, work on something for yourself, which I think is really rare. And so that's when I started taking a look at, should I launch something and should I make, you know, do what I'm good at? So I began to design a small five-piece collection of apparel and was beginning to

work on that during my day job if I got all my work done. Yeah. I mean, in your mind, are you designing this for them? Like it's going to be part of what they're launching or are you like, no, this is the first step of my sort of like next thing on my own? I don't think that I, at the time, had confidence that I could pursue it as my own. And I definitely knew it wasn't the right aesthetic for who I was working for, but I just knew that I had this feeling inside me that was like, I have to get these ideas out and I have to get this clothing made. And I was obsessed with it. And so it would eventually become my own company. But at the time, I just had to creatively, that was my output. And so the ironic thing is every time I put one of those items on, I didn't feel like I could wear it.

So it was for someone else always at the time. Spending time there. How long were you actually there? I was there for three years. Okay. What did you learn? I mean, clearly you learned it wasn't for you eventually and that you needed to go out on your own. But I mean, it's interesting because effectively three years at that age, it's kind of like this is your college education.

Correct. Yeah. And the CEO literally put me to task in every department. So I got a great exposure to PR and how that works. And I got a great exposure to shipping and sales and client relations reception. She really had me hit all aspects of it, which to me is more valuable than what, you know, some people come away with out of school. Because I was really in real life dealing with real things in a living, breathing business. Yeah.

So the sort of push to start my own company was not planned. I had just come back from the Caribbean. I went to an arts convention and I really loved down the Caribbean. They were cutting up shirts and putting beads on them, but I didn't want to come home with like Aruba on a shirt. So I did an, I love New York shirt and I cut it up and I was wearing it. My sister-in-law saw it. She wanted one. I made her one. And then she was at dinner with a well-known actress at the time. It was like, I want one. So I sent it to her on September 9th, 2001, obviously nine 11 happened. And she wore my shirt on Jay Leno on like the 12th or 13th. And he commented on the shirt.

She said my name. And again, pre-social media, the magazines went wild with it. They just started putting it in the magazine like Us Weekly and Lucky Magazine and any print that mattered. And they talked about it so much that suddenly that's what I was doing for nine months straight. It was all I did. So the CEO could see that I was busy. She's like, you're fired. Go do it. Now's your time, which was really scary because it's not like I was making money on these shirts. I was barely able to pay rent, but I had momentum. Yeah. But also, this was a time where we're in New York City, post 9-11, like within the year. Like the city was decimated.

I mean, the city and a lot of business, anything that would be considered in any way, shape or form, you know, discretionary spending was kind of crushed. The entire advertising and marketing space was crushed. So to start that here at that time, what was that like for you? So I didn't, I probably would not be here if the sequence of events didn't happen because people were like, cool, you have a five piece clothing collection that's not related to the t-shirt yeah maybe i'll buy a piece or two and put it in my store and pay you a check when it sells but that t-shirt being on her and then her saying my name and then what followed and the meaning behind that shirt is really what allowed me to come back and call boutiques or stores and say i don't just have a t-shirt i have a clothing

line and i think that the name suddenly had currency and I could use it to get in the door, but that might not have ever happened had, you know, I not sent it to her, had the towers not fallen. I'm not grateful or happy that that happened, but it was just some things you're not in control of this, you know, a series of circumstances that changes the course. And so from those relationships of being able to pick up the phone and saying, you saw this in this magazine, you know, here's the rest of the collection. I was able to build up a small, but good base of boutiques and a small clothing business that I did for about four years before launching the bag. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here.

It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum.

Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg.

You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. You and I have a similar overlap. So I started a business in New York City and I signed the lease for a six-year lease for a floor in a building in Hell's Kitchen the day before 9-11. Wow. And two months later, ended up on the front page of the New York Times job section featured. But the article was about businesses that had inadvertently benefited from 9-11. And there was this really weird, because you're like, oh my God, I'm the

front page of the Times. It's so great. And at the same time, you're like, I didn't do this because I knew what was coming or I wanted to benefit. There was no opportunistic intent here. Right. But I can't deny the fact that also I had a company that because it served a need that was amplified after this horrific, horrific experience,

it did benefit. Right. And it was a very strange feeling for me. It's a very strange feeling. I think the only thing that made me feel not strange was 100% of the profits at the time from that shirt went to charity. So I, you know, I paid my rent. Believe me, I was not living.

I was living in a room this size. I had a bed. For those listening, by the way, this is not a big room, small studio. My room might've been smaller. I was like on a bed, I couldn't afford a frame. So I slept on egg, I put egg crates and then the mattress over it. My closet was in the back little corner of a kitchen.

So I'd pay my rent and I would like eat ramen and make these shirts. So everything else went to charity. And I think that that helped me feel like in light of these horrific events, I'm contributing to something that hopefully helps people, even though I am benefiting from what just happened. Yeah. Do you, are you a spiritual person? Yeah. Do you ever think or feel that the decision that you made to sort of like directly redirect the benefit from that to some greater good in any way, shape or form was a

part of karma, was kind of like a benefit in some way? I hold on to the idea that if you are contributing to anything charitable or something that helps others, or whether it be people, the environment, animals, I feel like I have to know that at some point you get taken care of karmawise. I have to hold onto that because I've continued this pattern of charitable giving throughout my career, but I just have hopes like it pays it forward. Yeah, and I think you kind of have to do it that way because especially in the time since then and now,

really like the last decade, decade and a half or two decades, it's kind of become vogue to have some bigger connected purpose or contribution. For a while, it was green. Now it's all sorts of other things. And I've seen a number of companies sort of like do this as a, hey, we need like a marketing bump type of thing versus no, this is an extension of my beliefs of the way that I think I want to operate personally in the world. So I'm going to build a company that just carries that forward. Totally. I think there's a ton of companies who again, see it as a

marketing opportunity. And I was talking about it with someone today. You have to come from a really authentic place and everyone can have a different thing that they want to pay for it, but it has to be truly authentic to the human or to the brand that it makes sense that you're not, you know, a company full of men taking on a female empowerment initiative, unless you're going to change the whole company and make it 50, 50 and, you know, do all these changes that really speak to what you're doing. Yeah, no, I completely agree. So you find yourself, so you're living in a tiny place, making shirts as fast as you possibly can. And that, like the events that sort of like happen,

allow you to parlay that into sort of bigger and bigger stuff. You said it was about four years and you're growing things. What happened around four years that changed? Two things. I began to see that what I was doing with my little clothing company and then being a stylist to actually pay the bills was not going to. There wasn't a momentum other than myself propelling it. And that same actress, her name's Jen Elfman. She's on Fear the Walking Dead now,

but she was on Dharma and Greg back then. I remember that. I met her in LA and she said, do you make handbags? And I said, of course I do. I was lying through my teeth. And she goes, great, because I have a role in a new movie

that's gonna be coming out and the bag is in all the scenes and it'd be great exposure for you and perhaps help take know help take your brand to the next level and I was like on it she said you have two weeks that's when we start filming so I came back to New York and I started asking around like where do you make bags and my leather vendor who I would make leather jackets with gave me a couple of resources I went to these factories and a gentleman who I ended up working with for many years, and we still make some production with him today, came out and said, this is the brands I make for. And I said, no way, you're lying. You must be a knockoff brand

or maker. And he took me in the back. He proved to me that he did make these local designers that I had looked up to and admired their business. So before then, you had no idea that they weren't independently producing their own stuff. I just assumed that some of the brands that I had admired were either not made in New York. I thought maybe they were made in China. Or how would I be so lucky to stumble on this hot handbag company, Her Factory? So I made two samples, one for her, one for me. My sample was going to be for PR purposes once the movie aired. FedEx did not deliver on time and they were late.

Two hours to set and the film production had to move on. They used a different bag. It's okay. The film went to DVD. So nothing was lost. But at the time, it was devastating. It was $1,600 to make those two samples. It was my last of my savings that I had saved through bat mitzvah and babysitting and all that stuff.

So you're like, this is going to be the thing that really just blows everything wide open. And then the whole thing falls apart because of a shipping delay. Because of FedEx. Who knew? I love you, FedEx now. Now I'm a big FedEx user. But back then, they misdelivered my package. And so I said to myself, this is now, I've now purchased my first designer bag. Congratulations. Now you know what it's like to spend $800 on a handbag. And I was wearing it

around and I had enough people stop me on the street and literally come up to me and say, who makes that bag? I love it. I want it. That I began to think that maybe there was something about the style and how the market was back in 2005. So Daily Candy was just getting started. It was, you remember that? And that was like everything back then. It was huge. Yeah. So a friend of mine was like, I know the writer for Daily Candy.

She's going to write a story about it and I'll carry the bag in my boutique. And I was like, great. So we were brainstorming about names. What should this bag be called? And back then there were bags that were the name of boys or streets. And I said, you know what? I'm 26. I would really love to have the experience that I go out all night, end up sleeping at a guy's house, and I have to go to work the next day. So maybe we should call it the morning after bag. She thought it was a great idea and it was really catchy for the Daily Candy story. So the title of the story was The Catwalk of Shame and Daily Candy wrote about it and it sold out

that morning that it went up. The boutique sold all the bags. How many did they have? They had like 20. Right. So just like, boom, done. Gone. And then they came back and said, we want to fill an order for 75. And at that point I was like, I don't know how I'm going to pay for this. Like I have no money. Now I really have no money left. And I called my dad and I was like, all right, you're a loser daughter who is almost homeless many of the nights of the year. Finally, I have like some success. Will you loan me some money?

He was like, nope, call your brother. Maybe he'll loan you some money. And so my brother, I called him up. He had a software company. He was living in Florida still with his family. And he just was like, I'll loan you, you know, how much is the production? I'll loan you the exact amount. And then I want to check for that back. And so we did that for many months. He would loan me just the exact, he did to the deposit. I'd collect the funds, pay him back. And then I want to check for that back. And so we did that for many months. He would loan me just the exact unit to do the deposit. I'd collect the funds, pay him back. And then- So he's like your factor for like the early days. He was my factor. And then he began to see that the heat and the growth rate was at a level that he was like, oh, this I think is real. So that's when we formalized a business arrangement. He

started coming up once a week and then twice a week and then four days a week and then commuting back and forth and works his house, you know, maxed out his credit cards because we couldn't get a loan and really brought a business savvy to the side of the company that I definitely didn't have. So then you guys end up in business together as partners at that point. Correct. I mean, but if he lives in Florida and he has a family there also at that time? Yes. So he had a son and then he had another son. And when his second son turned three, he realized that he'd missed huge chunks of his son's life. And so that's when he talked his wife into moving up here.

So basically everybody comes up here. Everybody comes up here. I'm always fascinated too when you have something like where there's a catalyst that comes out of nowhere, you know, where, I mean, just if you think about planning versus serendipity, I mean, there was what happened after 9-11 with the t-shirt. That's one moment. There was the fact that you get this call from Jenna Elfman, hey, I need a bag. Seemingly, that is a golden moment that vanishes. And then you have this other opportunity.

You know, there's out of the blue, Daily Candy. You happen to have this bag because you had to make it for an opportunity that didn't work out. So you've got this ready to go. And that becomes this thing, which kind of just like blows everything up from that point forward. You now have a significant company where there's a lot of planning and process and systems that have to happen. And we'll talk a bit more about that. But when you think about all these moments that you couldn't

have seen beforehand, and the role of serendipity or fortune, luck, whatever word you want to use, plays into the process of growing something. What do you think about that, being open to it and those things just happening versus being really intentional and deliberate about the process? I think that there's a mixture of opportunity presenting itself, but you have to know when to seize it and you have to know what to do with that opportunity. And I think that I don't necessarily believe it's luck. I believe, you know, you have sharks, right? And they use this invisible sort of radar, right? Because they can't see very well.

So sound and senses on their outer layer are always sensing like what's happening. And so I feel like if you can get good at developing that sense of like opportunities or what's happening or how and always being on the lookout, then it's when you see that window that you're like, okay, good, I'm on it. And you can attack, not in a bad way, not like a shark attack. And so I even remember when, you know, a friend of mine worked at the New York Post and would take me to events and parties. And for me, I would come home and count business cards

as if I was counting dollar bills. I'd be like, who did I meet? Who can help me to the next step? And really seizing these opportunities. And I've also had always a stable idea that if I continue to outflow what I'm doing or messaging or whatever, I will get something back. Like the world works in that way

that if you're constantly promoting or talking about something or emailing or sending a catalog, whatever it is that you're putting out there, you will get inbound. And it's a mathematical equation that's probably different for every company, but there is a point at which your outbound communication

will get inbound back. Yeah. So it's like, yes, lightning sometimes strikes, but also you've got to constantly be out there running around with a thousand different lightning rods to catch it when it does. Correct. Definitely.

Yeah. Clearly you're also somebody who's wired to work relentlessly hard without a real, you're somebody who's comfortable taking action and making decisions when the stakes are high and you really don't know how it's going to end. Yes. Where does that come from? That is a good question.

Um, I know from early on, our mom made us work for everything we wanted. So if you were to say to us when we were eight or nine, like, can you be successful as a doctor? And my mom was a nurse. I would say, don't go into that profession because we were poor our whole life. And I got the idea that we were poor because everything I ever wanted, the answer was no, or you have to work for it. And so what it instills in me was a work ethic, having to figure stuff out. Again, not stuff that you think you should be doing at the age that I had to do it, but that's what it was in my family. And so for me now, the idea of figuring out how to do something or approaching a problem, I'm always like, I can figure this out because I've had to do that my whole life. So it's definitely for my mom. And I think that it's like a muscle as you do it, you get better at it, you get more comfortable.

Some of the risks we take today, I definitely would have been not comfortable doing years ago, but I think we've now seen these risks that we've taken as a company pay off. And I think sometimes just pointing out, someone else pointing it out, like when we decided as a company to change our whole, when we delivered, when we showed our fashion shows, you know, we were nervous. We were going to do something that was against what everyone else in the industry was doing. And he said, can I just take you guys back through all these different steps? And every time you guys did something that was a risk or was not off the main path, you won. So why be so scared about what you're about to do? And once he said that, and he gave us enough examples of that, I was like, oh, just who needs the parachute? Like, let's just keep

jumping. And if we fail, guess what? It's okay. You know, you can be like, we tried something, it didn't work. But most of the time it pays off. Yeah, I think that's the thing that most people really struggle to get comfortable with though. They do. And it takes a while to get comfortable with it.

But I think the beautiful thing about failing is you always learn something. I don't know if I came up with this or maybe I absorbed it from someone, but like the cycle of growing, failing, learning, growing, failing, learning, because when you fail, there's so many lessons that come out of it. You just do it smarter the next time around. So, and I agree with that completely. And to me, at least, it's a lot easier to wear those glasses when you're in your late teens and your early twenties, before you start to build a life and a lifestyle around your ability to succeed more than you fail. So as you get older, you get married, you become a mom, there's a lot more on the line. And you are like a primary contributor to the household. When you start to make decisions like that,

and I'm thinking about me, and I'm thinking about so many friends that I've had that have been founders, whether they're parents or not, when you start to say, okay, I'm moving into a window of my life where I feel like I don't want to go back to that place again, where I was living hand to mouth. I'm not okay going there anymore. And I've got people looking to me to provide some sense of, even if it's an illusion, security. How do you keep making those decisions when your sort of life circumstance like that changes? So I don't think we've ever made a decision

that could in one split second make the company go out of business. I think the decisions are around innovation. It's about trying new things. It's about changing certain business models that no matter what, we'd be safe. But I will be fully transparent and say, you know, two years ago, we were looking at a situation with a few suppliers not making their deliveries on time and the chain reaction

that would occur within the company. If we can't ship our goods, then we can't pay our bills. And I really sat there for a long time saying, OK, if our goods and we can't pay our bills. And I really sat there for a long time saying, okay, if this happens and you can't pay your bills and you get shut down, you suddenly go out of business. What does that look like for me? How, how do I feel? And I really just sat in it in that, I guess, visualization of what could happen. And I said, well, the bank can't take my husband and he can't take my children. And I know that after years of building a business, I could come back and build something else or something similar. And God forbid, if I couldn't do that, guess what?

I'll just go work for my dad, you know, or I'll go start a new life somewhere else. And so I think that once I reassessed where my fears were and it's my family, like anything has to do with my family being taken away, then I don't mind failing. Because as long as I have that intact, then we could live in a van and I'd be good. Yeah. I feel like also the more you go through the cycle of taking those risks, sometimes succeeding, sometimes failing, and seeing yourself come back time after time after time when it doesn't work, the more confident that you get that, yeah, you can take a hit.

It's not gonna be fun. It may really suck for a while. It may be really painful. But you also have whatever, you know you have whatever you need to have to come back to a place that's okay. Yeah. And I think that if you build up a network

of enough people that trust you, that even when times are tough, if you have a really good relationship and people care about you, we've had exceptions made for us in the past of like this experiment didn't work or you guys were stupid and this made me this mistake, but we're still gonna ship you

or we're still gonna be on board because we believe in what you're doing. So I think it's also, you know, nice to have meaningful relationships with those who you do business with in that respect so that when you do take those risks, if it doesn't go as planned, you have a support circle. Yeah. You bring up something which I think is so important also, which is the importance of relationships and like integrity and genuine, lasting relationships for moments like that. Because there's nobody that I know that's built anything substantial that has not gone through these like, you know, troughs of sorrow and freak out moments, sometimes caused by our own sort of like missteps. Sometimes the market like changes profoundly if something happens. And it is relationships with people that have been built up with trust over a period of years

where somebody else takes a flyer on you and says, we'll sustain you. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch,

getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's

a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. Did you ever read a shoe dog film night story? No, but it's on my list of books to read. Oh my God. Stunning. But it was the same thing. It was like from the outside looking in, Nike's growing into this massive, massive company. But like at any given morning for the first 15

years or so, he never knew whether he was going to walk in and the company was going to declare bankruptcy that day, or they were going to declare like a massive, massive win. And I think people don't realize from the outside looking in, you can see like a company that seems to be flying high and a giant brand. And you're always taking new risks. Always. I mean, I can't tell you how odd the experience is to have, you know, if I'm traveling for work or a trunk show or appearance, everyone's like, oh my God, it's amazing. And I'm like smiling and I'm like, they have no idea the shit that is going on right now. And I can't talk about it, you. And it's just like, I think there's a term for now, imposter syndrome. And then you start opening up, which not a lot of people do and they should.

And then everyone's like, this is happening in my company and this is happening in mine. You're like, oh, thank God. I thought I was alone in the struggles and the, you don't know if you're going to walk in and someone's going to have taken your company from you. But we've been through that. And there's a real zillions that comes from experiencing that. Yeah. No, so great. So as you're building this with your brother, too, that adds a whole nother dynamic. You know, on the one hand, you've got this beautiful trust.

On the other hand, it's complicated. It's complicated. We're very open in the fact that we complicated. It's complicated. We're very open in the fact that we don't always get along. We see a couples therapist once a year, sometimes twice to air out our frustrations and anger and whatever. And I think that we have very different roles, but as the company has grown, we've overlapped in a lot of ways with each other's traditional roles. So I think that makes for great ideas, but also, you know, disagreeing on, on one subject that before, you know, that was my lane or his lane. So I think

we're just constantly working on it. And I think we always put the business first. So whether or not we're fighting, we are professional. We make the right business decisions. And we don't let, if we are getting into a disagreement, we're really extraordinary at our team doesn't know. And then at family gatherings, no one is impacted by it. So I think that I've seen other family businesses and one side suffers, like the family, you know, all getting together, they can sense the tension or at the corporate side, like people are like, oh, those founders aren't getting along. But I think we've been good at like, we have this issue, we'll work it out when we see our therapist. And until then, let's just keep going. Yeah, so it sounds like you're compartmentalizing to a certain extent. We are. I think we really are. Yes, there's madness going on, but only in this one place at this one time.

It's just that we're in the room alone together. We might not be speaking to each other. But when everyone else is around, it's like we're getting along perfectly. Everything's awesome. That's funny. But it also brings up the idea of, you know, you use the phrase, your lanes. And I know some people really rebel against ideas like, you know, you've got a lane, stay in it. This is the thing you're good at.

Just focus on that and only that. So I think that a long time ago, you could have a lane and you could stay in it. I don't think that now, at least in my field, you can just be a designer. You have to be a smart business person. You have to be good at content. You have to be good at entertainment. And I think that similarly for my brother, who's the CEO, he's had to get really smart on what designs work and what doesn't and the customer and technology-based initiatives. And so I think that there isn't one lane and that we both had to grow in terms of our skillset so that we could continue to be as competitive as you have to be to sustain a business in this landscape.

Yeah, definitely. I think everybody needs to broaden out to a certain extent. But that also brings up another thing I'm really curious about with you, which is that you basically built an enterprise around your name, around you as an individual, which means people look at you. They look at the way you live, the choices that you make in your personal life, what you wear, what you choose not to wear, where you go, how you are as a person. And especially these days where now, you know, with social media, everybody's got a voice. How do you navigate that?

So I think if you were to go back, it was always coming from a personal place. It was, I like this. I don't like that. And as you decide to grow, or as we decided to grow a big company, it can't just be about I, it has to be, what is my customer need in her life that I can give her through my aesthetic lens? It might not be something that I want to wear, right? But it's through my design aesthetic. And then on the social side, we've gone back and forth from me sharing too much to me sharing too little.

I think right now we're trying to right-size what is the appropriate amount of sharing. You know, an example of let's say me and the brother not agreeing is I think I should share everything. And he's like, let's save the reality show for another enterprise. So I think that we're experimenting right now on social about, you know, what is what part of the life is exposed and what's not. And that's not to say that everything that we show is like perfectly curated, but it's also like, they don't need to see the deep, the deep, like, who knows the real, the realist, realist parts of my life maybe could just be, you know, for another time.

Right. It's interesting though, because a lot of people are really completely going there, or at least it feels like that, you know. Back in the early days of blogging, I used to call it train wreck blogging, where it's like, this is the full catastrophe of every single thing that's going on in my life, my marriage, my relationships, my health, everything. And when people would put it out there, and this was in the early days of blogging, where there was really only one channel. So everyone was focused there. But even then, there'd be massive, massive response. Now, when you put it out there, you put it out there on five different platforms. And it's exponentially amplified, which it's so hard, I think, to really understand. On the one hand, you want to be real and transparent. On the other hand,

there's a certain part of your life that you really want to protect, especially as a parent. Right. You know, even though it may be affecting you in a really deep way, it may be affecting the decisions you're making in life and business. But, you know, there's a line in the sand that I think, at least for me, I have a very conservative line in the sand. I don't share much. Yeah. But at the same time, I see people who share everything and they seem to benefit from it. And I just personally, I just don't feel comfortable going there. Yeah.

I think I fall somewhere in the middle because if you were to ask me five years ago, I would have shared everything. But as this world is turning into more and more a messed up place, I'm happy that I've not shared like, you know, so much about my children or, you know, certain things that I'm just like, you know what, I'm happy that that's private because there's crazy people out there doing crazy things. And I just don't need everyone to know what my kids look like or where we live or where they go to school or, you know, like there's just certain things privacy wise that I now I'm really happy that I've just sort of said, you know what, this is the lifestyle. These are the, you know, exciting moments. Here are some of the lows.

Here's me always being real with you. But like, there's just, again, like you say, like a part of my life that I'm not going to overshare on anymore. Yeah. I think it's about being real, but not, you don't get the whole thing. Correct. It's like what you get is real. Right. But it doesn't represent the entire picture of every aspect of my life.

But it also brings up another question, which is, you said we live in a messed up world. In a lot of ways, there are astonishingly good and awesome things happening in the world right now. And also a lot of struggle and a lot of strife and a lot of people taking very strong contrary positions and digging in positions that I think a lot of people in business who are both individual leaders and have strong personal opinions

and also represent and are the voice of and make decisions on behalf of a significant brand are really struggling with, how do I dance with this? How do I dance with personal conviction and what the voice of my brand, my company is and how much, if at all, those two overlap? Do you, is that part of sort of like your current thought process? I think that for me, it's always, and it's obviously gotten more and more precise. It's always been about female equality, us being equal, whether it is in pay or on board seats or rights that we should have access to. So I've never wavered from that. And I think that obviously there is a microscope on that now, but it was always something that I've been behind and sort of talked about and been a part of. I think each, again, each person has to really take a look at for themselves what is true. And that's my lane. I can't take on everybody's issues. You know, I have to really go on the ones that matter to me most, which is like women, equality, and obviously hoping to provide a better future for our children. So anything

within that lane, I'm all in. Would I like to see other things change? Yes. Would I love us to not have global warming? I would totally. But I feel like you can only focus your efforts in, you know, 24 hour period. And so like, let me be the most effective in that area that I can be. Yeah. Do you ever, do you think about whether the company voice will take a sort of like a strong outward position on these things too? Is that?

It does. Yeah. I mean, if you look through the past, whether it was quotes or t-shirts that give back to charity or the launch of our latest campaign, which is called I Am Many, which is really celebrating the many different parts of a woman. As women, we've been marketed to, to be one thing, be brave, be beautiful, be bold. And so we're now celebrating all the different complexities that make up a woman. I think you see that our messaging has

been really strong in that stance and only going to get stronger. Yeah. So sitting here today, tell me, when you wake up in the morning and you think about, okay, this is what I've created. Like if you just kind of like look at where you are, do you ever sort of take a look and say five years out this is what I would like to see happen and if so what does it look like so this is something I struggle with and I don't know if it's because my brother and I say that we're neurotic Jews or this is the sickness that entrepreneurs have right Right. But I wake up every- I'm raising my hand over here also. Maybe it's the combination of neurotic, you entrepreneur.

And New York City just amplifies everything. Yes. Every morning I wake up and I'm like, we are such failures, you know? And you can then make yourself sicker and pull up your Instagram feed and see everyone who you think is doing it better. So I will say that.

So in five years, I want to not feel that way. And I don't I don't I now know that. As an entrepreneur, I feel that every time I've set a goal of like, if I just get to this place, then I'll be feeling. The things that are the opposite of what I'm saying. You know, I'll be able to feel like, yes, haha, I got to the mountaintop and I'm so satisfied. And then every time I've hit that goal, I'm like, oh man, now I really want X or whatever. So I think that in five years, I would just love to not have that feeling.

I would love to just wake up and be like, I'm really proud of myself, proud of my brother. I'm proud of what we built. Damn, we did a good job. And like, it feels like we've hit that, whatever that mountaintop is. I have a feeling knowing me, it won't feel that way. Yeah, it's the perpetual discontent of the creator. Correct. And that's why for me now, it's more important than ever

that I thoroughly enjoy every part of this journey, because I think it's more about that and the people you meet and the experiences you get to have. And like, oh, when I get that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, then that's going to feel like all this work was worth it. I think it's really more about like, there's no there, there. There's no there, there. Yeah. It doesn't exist. I mean, that's, it's so funny because I have such a similar experience and similar question and I'm always like, okay, so what would I need to do to feel that way now? Correct. You know, it's like, what practices would I engage with? What retreats would I take? How would I reconstruct my day or my life, my interactions so that like if this was it, I'm good.

Yeah. Well, I said to my husband, I said, you know what? There might not be a pot of gold at the end of this rainbow and that's fine. Let's live our life like that doesn't exist. And what are the things that we get to enjoy? And I'm not saying we don't enjoy it. We have a great life, but like let's really thoroughly enjoy all that it has to offer. Not thinking that, oh, in five years, we are going to get to live in Greece with our scooter and sandwich out. Which still sounds pretty good, actually. Agreed. It's a solid fallback. This feels like a good place for us to come full circle, too.

So as we're hanging out here in Good Life Project, if I offer out the phrase, to live a good life, what comes up for you? To live a good life, don't take for you? To live a good life. Don't take it seriously and find someone that makes you laugh. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at sparkotype.com. That's S-P-A-R-K-E-T-Y-P-E.com. Or just click the link in the show notes.

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conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot?

Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary.