Good Life Project - Sheri Salata: From Oprah Winfrey to Owning Her Own Story.

Episode Date: November 6, 2017

Sheri Salata is the co-founder of STORY salata | hala, a media company producing print, television, film and the “This is Fifty with Sheri and Nancy.”Her new venture into the world of entrepreneurship is the evolution of the "staff job of all staff jobs," a 20-year career with Oprah Winfrey, where Salata became executive producer of The Oprah Winfrey Show, President of Harpo Studios and then joined forces with Oprah Winfrey in the heralded turn-a-round of the OWN network.In today's conversation, we explore Sheri's early career in advertising and what led her to leave it all behind to explore the entertainment world. We dive into what it was like working at the highest levels with one of the most iconic and influential women in media and business, Oprah Winfrey, and helping run a legendary media empire. We also visit what led Salata to leave it all behind in 2016, shift gears and build something entirely new with her longtime friend, Nancy Hala, on their own terms and in their own time.Rockstar Sponsors: Are you hiring? Do you know where to post your job to find the best candidates? Unlike other job sites, ZipRecruiter doesn’t depend on candidates finding you; it finds them. And right now, GLP listeners can post jobs on ZipRecruiter for FREE, That’s right. FREE! Just go to ZipRecruiter.com/good.Thrive Market: Get $60 of FREE organic groceries + free shipping and a 30-day trial at thrivemarket.com/goodlife.Get paid online, on-time with Freshbooks, a cloud accounting software that makes it insanely easy for freelancers and professionals to get paid online, track expenses and do more of what you love. Get your 1-month free trial, no credit card required, at FreshBooks.com/goodlife (enter The Good Life Project in the “How Did You Hear About Us?” section).ShipStation: Do you sell on Amazon? Ebay? Shopify? Your own website? Then you need ShipStation. It’s the fast and easy way to manage and ship your orders- all from one place. Now, you can try ShipStation FREE for 30 days, plus get a special bonus. Visit ShipStation.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in GOODLIFE.Casper is a sleep brand that continues to revolutionize its line of products to create an exceptionallycomfortable sleep experience, one night at a time. Get $50 toward any mattress purchase by visiting casper.com/GOODLIFE and using GOODLIFE at checkout. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You know, I've had the kind of career people would pluck out eyeballs for, but then I've got like these drawers stuffed with all these dreams that are like, like they're about to like, like crusty old, you know, like paper or photographs. They're going to disintegrate if I don't get to it. Is that it? So when this week's guest, Sherry Salata, left her post as the co-president of the show and headed up the Harpo network as a president, and then made the jump with her to own and help build that entire network. Until she hit a point where she started to realize that she has had the most extraordinary career

surrounded by the most extraordinary people and working with incredible, incredible personalities, including Oprah, Oprah Winfrey. And yet she hit a point where in her mid-50s, she started to ask questions about what was she here to do and who was she here to be and what was this next leg of her adventure? What was the story that she wanted to tell moving forward that led her to leave the career behind and start a new adventure that she calls story with a dear, dear friend of hers, Nancy Hala. They also produce a podcast called This Is 50 and some other really fun properties. And of course, we'll link to those. But I want to just sit down with her and explore her journey

and some of the big moments in that journey. And then also spend some time with her as she's kind of in this interesting space of experimentation and exploration and trying to figure out what does this next part of the story look like? I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is?

You're gonna die. Don't shoot him! We need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. I left college, and I didn't want to just go back to Chicago. I felt like, but I also didn't have a rock-solid plan, and I hadn't, I'd spent my senior year having lots of fun and not doing a lot of interviewing, and I was a marketing major.

I had a business degree. So I just took off and moved to Dallas, Texas. Ah, did not know that part of the story. Without a job, without a job, without a plan, and with about $50 in my pocket, I ended up typing in the legal pool at a title company. Deeply fulfilling work. Deeply fulfilling. Well, and like, you know, this is actually, not only is it my Achilles heel, but also one of my great strengths is that I just want to be the best at whatever I'm doing.

So I would make the best of it. I'm going to be the best typist in this typing pool. And, you know, then I'd get promoted. And it would only be after I started, like misery started to seep in my bones, that I'd be willing to make a change. And I did that, oh, until I was 28 years old. And then I had to start all over again. So what was the drive inside of you? Because it's clearly still there today. But I mean, the seed was just like, it seems like really just an elemental part of you from the earliest days.

I think it was two things, maybe three. And I don't know which one is stronger because they all seem to have been fulfilled. But I had a real drive for significance. I wanted like something dazzlingly creative. And I also yearned for that meaning piece. Once I was in that 40, 50 hour a week, whether I was typing, I also worked at 7-Eleven.

I delivered a baby in a parking lot. I had quite a few experiences. And I felt like I was always looking for that meaning part. I'm like, this is going to have to matter somehow to me. More so than just I love my coworkers, or I'm moving ahead, or I'm helping customers, or I can clean a slurpy machine as good as anybody. But that meaning piece was a real driver for me. How far, if you kind of like close your eyes and think back, how far back into your, how young can you trace that as something that you were aware of?

Well, I think as a kid, I somehow got a few things confused. I confused worthiness with accomplishment because I was the first grandchild on both sides of my family. So that you get lots of attention. You sneeze and everybody's like, you know, it's like standing ovation. So I think that there can be something a little confusing about that. You know, why are there 10,000 pictures of me and two of my youngest cousin? Because, you know, by that time, you're like, we got tons of pictures of kids. But, you know, there was something that was a little haywire for me there. So, you know, I'd accomplish something.

You know, I'd get straight A's. I'd get, you know, attention and cheers and applause and love. And then I'd do this and I'd accomplish something, you know, I'd get straight A's, I get, you know, attention and cheers and applause and love. And then I do this and I get that. And so I think that was kind of a driver in a way. So it was a lot of, it was externally oriented a lot. A little bit. And then I think as I started to feel comfortable that I can accomplish, I'm an accomplisher, then it was, but that's not going to be enough. It felt like this never-ending quest for, what is it? What is it? What is it that I'm really hungering for? And I kind of landed at the end of the day.

Once I had this piece together, the meaning piece, I knew that's what it was. That was very significant for me. When did that piece drop? Not until the Oprah show. And that was my second start over. You know, I moved back from Dallas at 27. I begged a friend's fiance to be a secretary at an ad agency and loved that and loved the creativity of it and the filmmaking aspect of it.

And I just thought it was so cool. And then at a certain point, that meaning bucket wasn't getting filled. hey, I am working on a ham commercial or a farm fertilizer commercial or Six Flags commercial. And I'm like, hmm, I could feel that yearning again. And that's when I was on my next quest, what is it going to be? So at 35, I completely started over, bottom of the barrel, promo producer, entry level. After trying at least once and getting rejected, I got that opportunity at the Oprah show. And I was 10 years older than anybody else. And I had the bottom of the basement job. Do you remember the first day walking in?

Oh, yeah. What is it? It was like I had, it was like, I had won the lottery of life. I couldn't believe how good the free coffee was. I, I, I couldn't believe, felt like such a moment of destiny. And I remember thinking, always appreciate it as much as you do right now. Cause I knew what it was and that, you know, lucky for me, you know, so I'd see, you know, 22 or 23 year olds and they'd be like, and I'm thinking, whoa, you don't even know how great this is. So you come in with just a very different lens, a different worldview, a different

experience at that level. I'm so grateful for that. I'm so grateful that I got to begin that experience knowing what a rich and deep opportunity that was. You know, so like any of us, you know, you start with appreciation, then it's like, you know, you're off to the salt mine or you begin to focus on, you know, the piddly stuff, the little annoyances, and it all of a sudden begins to change the whole experience and you no longer see that beauty and that sense of destiny and that wonder, the way you began. Yeah. Coming into that experience at 35,

how easy was it for you to sort of step back into that place of beginner mind? Or were you? I mean, I'm making an assumption there, actually. Well, it was new for me. You know, I came from advertising where you would spend two months on a 30-second commercial or spot, as we call them. In the TV world, I'd have to turn that out overnight. Plus, in the ad world, I'd have a copywriter, an art director. I was the producer. I'd have this team of people. In the TV world, I had to write the copy. I had to record it with Oprah. I'd have to run to an edit house before we had really expanded inside the studio and edit it, you know, a 30, a 15, a 10, a four, and tag out all the different versions

and get it on the feed for the next day. So it was very new for me. Like the pace of it was like, woo, and let me pretend like I know what I'm doing. Yeah, it comes down to it. I think we're all just pretending. So you start to, so you dive into that. How quickly do you know like this, like this, this is different and this is starting to fill that bucket that wasn't getting filled?

Well, one of the jobs of a promo producer is to watch all the shows. So, I mean, that's what I couldn't believe. They're paying me to watch TV at my desk. I can't even believe it. They're paying me to watch the best show on television at my desk. I can't even believe it. They're paying me to watch the best show on television at my desk. And we'd take notes and get time codes and look for sound bites. Instantly, as I start to watch those tapings, I think, it's like all the boxes are checked. I'm learning. There's amazing guests coming on. I might be laughing. I might be crying. I'm watching all these life-changing stories. I'm learning. There's amazing guests coming on. I might be laughing. I might be crying. I'm watching all these life-changing stories. I'm hearing from the best experts and thought leaders and also obviously learning from and so proud to work for one of the greatest talents in television. It was something.

So you started, this would have been mid-90s, mid to late 90s? Yeah, I think it was 95, I think, 95 or 96. And over a period of, I guess, 15 or so years, you stay there, you build within the organization and end up rising up to sort of like the, basically as high as you can go within the organization. As you sort of chart that journey, what were the defining moments or awakenings or things where you're like, huh, this is different, this is changing me? Well, I think it was never even really considered a real possibility. Like the jump from the promotions department really didn't happen to the show. So it wasn't something that I would sit around thinking about or really dreaming about.

I was a promo producer for a long time, I had enough work experience and life experience to be able to see that I wasn't living in the middle of a phenomenon. And I could see the impact that it was having on audiences. And there was such, for everybody, I mean, it was an incredible team of people and such a sense of pride and purpose. And, you know, I'd had a bunch of jobs before then. So I knew that that wasn't a slam dunk everywhere else. So I think that just continued to unfold for me in a deeper way. And also I would say, you know, I was raised Catholic in Waukegan, Illinois, and I still, you know, even into college was having trouble with that spiritual piece, like that real connection. And, you know, working at the Oprah show, I'm exposed to everybody, Marianne Williamson and Deepak and just ways of thinking about things in a quantum vibrational,

energetic way that I'd never considered. And I think if I were to tell you what was the greatest gift of that time for me was Oprah and the Oprah Winfrey Show really gave me a spiritual life. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman.

I knew you were going to be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot? So our awesome friends at Freshworks make ridiculously easy cloud accounting software for freelancers and small business owners who know that making every single moment count is a really important part of getting a lot of stuff done and being able to do the things software for freelancers and small business owners who know that making every single moment count is a really important part of getting a lot of stuff done and being able to do the things that they

want to do in their business. By drastically simplifying things like invoicing, tracking expenses, and getting paid online, FreshBooks has totally changed the game for now more than 10 million people. You can link your FreshBooks account to your credit card and debit card. So next time you expense the business stuff or the tank of gas or lunch, it just shows up automatically. They have notifications and awesome customer service. To claim your month-long unrestricted free trial with no credit card required, go to freshbooks.com slash good life and enter the good life project in the, how did you hear about us section? It's so interesting because you go into something

like this and you're like, okay, so this is a career, you know, it's fascinating work, right? And especially somebody who seems to be wired like you were like, okay, let me master this and then this and then this and this and become the best that you can be at this. And at the same time, the content of what the entire thing is about is sort of like it's working its way into you and changing you in a way that it sounds like you weren't expecting, but you were yearning for. Yeah. I mean, I think it's kind of like my prayers were

answered. But, you know, I found what I was seeking. No question about it. So you reach a point where the show is taking off. It's become this huge phenomenon. You're working very closely with Oprah. At some point, there's a decision made that actually this show in the format that it was in is going to come to an end. What's happening behind the scenes with you with that and with what's going on? Well, listen, it was always really good to remember it wasn't just a show. It wasn't just a brand, although it was a show and it was a brand. But Oprah's a person and she gets to decide when it's time. And I had enormous admiration for her stamina because it was no joke. I, you know, for most of the years I was there, it was a

phenomenon when I joined. I think I started in season 10. So it was already a phenomenon. And, you know, back in those days, I mean, gosh, they were doing 200 shows a year. By the time I was executive producer, the contract called for maybe it was 140. And I thought that was crazy mint. But that was taping like six primetime, like full on layered dense tape packages, guests coming in, primetime specials a week is what it felt like. And by that time, you know, the fantastically creative and innovative producers, along with Oprah, who invented everything, they've done everything. What else is there to do? They've done everything. Oprah is discerning.

She does not want to do the for Oprah and to do it well. to produce the quantity of show that you're talking about at the quality level, where the bar is the top of the top, like it doesn't get higher than that, has got to be just on a personal level, all consuming for you as a human being. I mean, how, like, if you zoom the lens out, it's like, okay, so this is Sherry's life. How are you with that? Well, it's not true for everybody. I mean, I marveled at some of the very senior producers who really could handle a lot of different things while they still delivered at the highest level. For me, it was very all-consuming. I had to give it top attention and really kind of squeeze the rest of my life a little bit to the side or put a lot of it on pause.

Because when I wasn't there, I was thinking about it or fretting about it or is this good enough? Is that good enough? It was dense. And for me anyway, it was high stress. So, and you know how, when something requires so much focus, like that, that churning of, is this idea good enough? Is there a better way to do it? Is this going to work? Is this going to be, is this going to meet our standard? Not just from a production standpoint, but is it right? You know, there was nothing worse than after a show to be in Oprah's office. And she really feels like from an integrity way that we had missed the mark or from a,

like, what was that? Those were the toughest moments. How did you deal with that stress? I mean, because it seems like it was high level and it was sustained not just for days or months, but for years. How do you be okay with that? I wouldn't say I dealt with that well. I wouldn't say I did at all. I, you know, I really try to like have no regrets because I know I did the best I could at any time. But I would say there were some tentpole practices I could have really stuck to in my life, which is kind of called practice what you preach, because we were producing shows about it all the

time. I've been in that same place. It's like, I know what to do. Yes. But somehow, yeah. Yes. You know, sometimes I think when you don't have those rock solid stress management techniques, you know, like workout without fail, meditate without fail, like, and I knew all that would work, you know, but I'd choose other things like the tombstone pizza at midnight or, you know, like the 10 buckets of diet soda or too many coffees or just kind of like, I got to keep going. I got to keep going. So that I would say I could do better. If I were to look back on that, that would have been, that would have really made the experience even better. Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting to hear you share that. One of the patterns that I've seen with so many folks I've had the opportunity to sit down with, and also just in my own life, where the work that you do in the world does

light you up on so many levels, and it's deeply convicted and deeply purpose and passion driven. And sometimes that fierce level of alignment can, it sustains you so much that it almost masks the hit that we may be taking psychologically or physically. Because we're getting so much nourishment from that one thing that we kind of just like we tune out whatever the other signals are. I found that in my own body and life. I can see that so clearly now. That we kind of just like we tune out whatever the other signals are. I found that in my own body and life. I can see that so clearly now. I can look back and say, wow, that just ate the whole thing up. You know, that was life with some, you know, some other, you know, things on the side. I mean, you know, my friends and family could count on me in a crisis. But just on the day-to-day, hey, my friends and family could count on me in a crisis, but just on the

day-to-day, hey, let's get together. Not so much, you know, because I was, you know, it was all consuming. Yeah. So the decision is made. That show winds to an end. The final season has been documented. I'm sure everybody's seen it. We did a reality show on it. Right, exactly. It seems like it was a wild wrap-up. Insane, insane, insane. And so much fun. Right, right. And at the same time. And still, that's not the end of that chapter. Well, it's the end of that

chapter. It was not quite the end of the Oprah chapter or that. It moves into this evolution of the next entertainment complex revolved around the similar brand. Right. And so that was OWN. And Harpo Studios was still open.

So there was, for me, there was a going back and forth. And it's a completely different industry. You know, it's like for 15 years you've been learning French. And now you're in a land that only speaks Chinese. And yet, it's not going to languorously wait for you to get up to speed. Especially that industry, which is moving ridiculously quickly. Really quickly, and really quickly now. And it's just a whole new planet. And with whole new partners and whole new expectations and not one show. Now it's like 8,000 hours of shows. And it felt like, I remember thinking at the time, what does it feel like?

It feels like you're on like a 747, but you didn't go to 747 school. And now you have to land the plane. That is such a growth experience and so stretching and ultimately so valuable. But, you know, I wouldn't call it delicious. Yeah, I get that. You know what I'm saying? I get it. It's so valuable. But, whoa.

I mean, it's interesting, too, because while Oprah was on sort of traditional TV, there were certainly shows and topics and moments where there was backlash, but it was generally against a particular point of view or topic. And what was interesting is when OWN launched, the first couple of years from sort of like a structure and a format, there was backlash, not so much against the top, the topic or the content, but people, I mean, haters going to hate, right? There are people who are like, Oh, like they've lost it. They're, you know, like their numbers aren't what they used to be and

stuff like that. So there was, there was sort of, there was blowback, but for a different reason and from a different community. I'm curious, and you being deeply embedded on the business and production side and stuff like that, how did you handle that on a personal level? How did you navigate it? I felt really bad about it because, you know, it was unfair. First of all, I was completely loyal and it hurt my feelings for Oprah. You know, it hurt my feelings, but it was unfair because, you know, the expectations, it was a completely different business. And, you know, it would have been great to like have a quiet little, okay, and here's what we're going to do. And this is going to feel good. Like, you know,

any other of those little networks begin and they get their one show going in another. And this just felt, I think the word at the time, it was so long ago. I mean, gosh, I think it's seven years now, but it felt like that concept, is it schadenfreude? Is that the right word? I'm not sure how to pronounce it, but I know the concept. Schadenfreude, I think that's what it is. It felt mean. It felt gratuitously mean. It felt like, I'm going to take you down because you've been so high up for so long and I'm sick of it. And, you know, especially when you're trying to get a handle on a completely new industry and all those moving parts and you're responsible to another partner who is, you know, who was bet on this brand. And it was that was tough.

You know, it's hard like to put on blinders and be like, don't listen to what everybody's saying. Don't read the headlines. Let's just keep one. You know, we had this saying, next right thing, next right thing, next right thing. Yeah. Sometimes that's the only thing you can really do. Yes, for sure. It's just like anything. I mean, it's like the diagnosis. I got an email this morning from a colleague I haven't seen in a long time. And now she and her husband are dealing with this horrible diagnosis. And the reason I bring that up quiet things down, and just what's this next right thing? And what's this next right thing? And what's this next right thing? And I've learned not to look up until I feel like things are stabilized. That's probably good advice for a lot of aspects of life.

Right? Yeah. Right? You could expand that out for sure. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required.

Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is?

You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. Eventually, you find your footing. Yeah. Eventually, it takes a couple years,

but all the naysayers are proven wrong. And in fact, traction happens, and now there's all these beautiful programming and programs and properties and all this stuff, which kind of takes us to this really interesting move for you last year. Take me there. Well, here is the big question.

And I think I heard this on one of your podcasts. If not now, when? You know, if not now, when? It was, you know, I did everything I came to do. And I did it with great joy and great love. And especially when I was in L.A., I would meet these 24 and 25-year-olds who were running their own companies and master of their fates. And I was like, wow, that's really brave. I don't think I had that.

I didn't have that in me at 24 or 25 back in those days. And I felt a bit of a longing, you know, to be to when I when I write words for them to be in my voice and to, you know, create a vision that's mine and not help grow and execute somebody else's vision, no matter how meaningful and spectacular it is. So that's where I find myself. I find myself where the concept began as a year of radical self-care because that needed attention. That needed attention. I was 56. I couldn't remember the last time I'd been on a date. My health was wildly out of control. I didn't feel that good. I did not feel very happy. And in a Chardonnay-soaked haze with one of my great friends of many years, Nancy, we sat there kicking around like, is this it? She had two children, divorced as well, not with anybody.

And it's kind of like, wow, you know, I've had the kind of career people would pluck out eyeballs for. But then I've got like these drawers stuffed with all these dreams that are like, they're about to like crusty old, you know, like paper or photographs. They're going to disintegrate if I don't get to it. Is that it? And we would kind of circle around this idea that, okay, so let's say I made health much to as I gave to some of my other things, particularly in the work area. And what if I'm only halfway through my life? What if there's the whole second half? I don't want to find out at 95 that I wasted 30 years thinking the end was near or that I was done. So that was a huge epiphany for me and for Nancy. And we just kind of said, listen, there's a way to live where everything is integrated, where it feels like one life, where I'm never going to have

work-life balance. I was a complete failure at it. It's never happening for me. And then when I ruminate on it, the concept of balance is kind of a recipe for failure in and of itself, because you can't be in balance unless you're wobbly. So what were to happen if I made those pillars, those areas of my life, my so-called work? And that is what I find myself doing 18 months later. And I feel like everything that I've ever learned, every show I ever watched and took notes on, every aha moment that I ever experienced for myself, I'm now living that in a way that's filled with integrity and truth and wholeness. And I don't think I've ever been happier than I am right this minute. And just to sort of like round out the story,

that part of that decision was also you making a clean break from Oprah and everything. Well, it's not, I'm not clean. I'm guessing you guys still talk. But in terms of like you actually like playing a, like a huge role. Oh yeah. No, that's totally over.

Yeah. And good and high time. High time. You know, time for new energy, time for new voices, time for new things. I don't really feel like you can, you know, it's kind of like when I moved to LA, I had to make a decision whether I was going to sell my

apartment in Chicago. And I loved that apartment. I loved it so much. All the rooms overlooked the lake. It was a vintage apartment. So you can relate. I loved it so much. And I was like, you're going to have to sell it because you can't live with your feet in both worlds. You can't make L.A. your home. You can't dive into it like the deep end of a pool and really soak it up if you're thinking about your apartment in Chicago all the time. So if that's what you mean by, that's the clean break, that you have to say yes to this new thing out out front. Yeah, it's like you have to close the door or else, because the other one doesn't open until you do.

Yeah, you can see it and you can touch it, you can feel it. Yeah, and appreciate it. And it's good for everybody. Yeah, and it sounds like interestingly, well, let me just ask the question, Ashley, did you feel like when you closed that door and sort of like took that first real big step into the next one, did it just feel like, good, this is right? Was there angst? Was there questioning?

Or were you just like, no, I'm on this? years to really feel a sense of freedom, how I spend my time, what my schedule is. Going to the bank to cash a check was a little source of joy for me. Running errands. I mean, those were all things that I didn't do for years. Was there any melancholy sort of like wrapped around that particular awakening? You're just like, good. You're like, I'm good with how I've spent my time. Yes. No, no melancholy. Because that's what it required. That's what we required. But then it's like you come out and you go, Oh, my God, the sun's out. There's, you know, it's like, I'd like to go into my bank in Los Feliz, which is a great neighborhood in LA, on the east side, and I call out, Alex, there's Alex, my banker. And, you know, I know everybody's name. That's such

a new experience for me. And I revel in it. I revel in those little things now and appreciate them. So you're, I guess about a year into this now. Yeah. Yeah. A little bit more. Yep. I'm in year two. Okay. So you're entering year two and spending a lot of time. It sounds like so. And part of this also was, you know, like sort of like Sherry's big take care of all aspects of my life adventure. But you also brought up your friend, Nancy, AKA Nance. Yeah, Nance.

If you listen to the podcast, by the way, and we'll dive into that a little bit too. You guys, it sounds like it's been a lifelong friendship or at least a grown up life friendship. Like 27 years, yeah. So it's not just your project. There was a whole conversation where you said, like, what would it look like

for us to do something together, both personally, but also professionally? Yeah. Take me there a little bit. Well, again, I mean, not trying to have those really divided boundaries between, I don't even call it work anymore. I know I have re- termed that creativity and innovation. Because

I think that that word work is a bit of a trap for me. It's a bit of a trigger. It's like, you know, I'm from the Midwest, I'd take my work pail and go punch in. And, you know, if you're paying me a salary, you can count on me, I'll give you 100%. There's a lot of stuff that goes along with that. Right. And I think when I hear that word work, there's muscle memory in me that's about separate. That's my work life. That's my work. So I'm really in that integrated place.

I think for Nancy and I, we both love to write. We both love to tell stories. Nancy's a brand strategist and has been writing for years. And how are we going to tell this story about redefining the middle of life? We're talking to ourselves. It's not like we're out trying to like, it's like, come along if you wish. But we're not really setting ourselves up in any way as big experts. I know what a big expert is. I know what those skills are, but it's having the conversation that I most want to have. So I find myself talking to myself all the time, you know, like what matters, what's important,

you know, where are you going to focus now? How are you going to be braver here? What more, what new choices are you going to focus now? How are you going to be braver here? What new choices are you going to make? And that also evolves into this thing called story. Okay, so here's a question. If you don't use the word work, is story a company or a business or what is it? Because there is this being, there's an entity that you are now moving forward in the world. Yes, which is, you know, it's an LLC. It's Story Saladahala, really. But that is a really good question. And you know what popped, it flashed in my mind?

Because I think I've called it a company. We've certainly called it our business. But I think what Story really is, is our dream. I think that's more accurate. And honestly, I must tell you, the mad secret to the whole thing is holding it very lightly and kind of letting it become what it's supposed to be. Yeah. Does that come easy to you or hard?

Well, I would say that one of my real growth spurts here this last year and a half is to really try to take myself out of that to-do list mentality and to really focus on that being piece. What am I being? What am I being? What am I being? It begins every day by making transcendental meditation. Listen, it is my greatest, most immediate wish that I'm a TV show, that's new for me. All that stuff would have just gone right to the back burner when, quote unquote, work called. Yeah, I guess it's a dream that maybe what that dream looks like is evolving on a daily, on a minutely basis. There's some print stuff. There's some book writing.

There's a website at story.co. We post stories. We have a newsletter. And we're really just doing all of that for fun. And then we started the podcast in August, which I have such respect for this platform. I didn't know it was this. I didn't know how great this was, where it's just so intimate and so personal, so fulfilling as a content platform. I don't think I understood that. You know, it took me a long time to understand that too. And so real, as you can hear the sirens in the background, like we are clearly sitting in a little home studio in New York City, which some people, it bothers because they want the big broadcast experience. And then other people are like, oh, this is cool because it's like I'm sitting in

the room with you and you're in my ears, you're in my head. And it just, it feels better. And like you said, it's different. I'm really curious too, how it is for you. You spent your entire adult career producing other people being in front of a camera or behind a mic. Now you're that person. How do you experience that? It's different. And here's why. Because I'm not trying to be a star. You know, I'm not. This podcast thing is we're just real people having a conversation. And we're talking about things. If you and I were to meet for coffee and say, hey, somebody said, hey, I think you'd like each other. You guys should meet for coffee. We would be having this conversation. It's the very same conversation.

There's nothing fancy pants about it. There's no sweeping agenda of any kind. We'd like people to listen to our stuff. That's great. So it's different than that. Maybe because it's audio, I feel very safe and comfortable. Because if it wasn't, I would probably be like, I'm much more comfortable behind the scenes in a way. Yeah. It's funny because I think you and I actually share that to a certain extent in that I'm actually much more comfortable both not on the mic or in front of screens. I love to be kind of like behind the scenes, you know, like pulling strings and making stuff work. But there is something that is really different about this

medium. And I think, I almost wonder if it's that sense of realness and intimacy that not only do we get to sort of offer out to the world, but it's almost like in terms of somebody who engages with media these days. I feel like broadcast has almost moved really far away from that. And there's sort of like a human yearning for something realer, a little bit more raw, a little bit more truthful and intimate. And podcasting kind of like swept in at just the right moment. And people are grabbing at it and saying, yeah, I'll have more of this. Yeah, it's good. As I continue to sample it, and like I said, I'm very, very new, very, very new to this world. I was listening before I came here this morning to your conversation

with Liz Dolan, because I know Liz. I've met Liz. I think Liz Dolan is one of the most spectacular human beings on the planet. And I thought, man, I could listen to this all day. And we now have the technology where you can listen to things in your car, you can listen to things when you go for a walk. And I agree. I feel like we want to connect to something. So when I'm talking about being in my 50s and really understanding that if I don't tell the right story to make the rest of my dreams come true, if I'm not ready to just really keep dreaming it up and keep going and really adding juice to those things, then I just might as well get a sensible haircut, let my hair go gray, put on sensible shoes, grab a camper, you know, or, you know, offer myself up for babysitting. But that isn't what I want to do.

That isn't the life I want to live. And when I just talk about that, like, do I only get one dream career? Is that, have I now eaten my whole piece of pie and the only one I get? Or do I get to take that and continue to grow and expand and eat more from the buffet of possibility? and eat more from the buffet of possibility. And when I'm talking about that, I can literally see women that I've known for 40 years, I can see their eyes light up. Me too. You know, everybody wants great love

and maybe you can have three great loves in your life and maybe you can have three dream careers and what else and what's next. And that's kind of an exciting energy to swim in, in your fifties, you know, to kind of really redefine the whole thing for yourself. And so when I look at somebody else being excited by it, that's the energy that propels me forward to keep doing it. Yeah. It's interesting. Your whole physical demeanor

just changed as like in the last 30 minutes, you're like, boom, we just hit something. It's so clear that there's like a radiance attached to this exploration. And for you, it is really interesting to sort of like see you holding it so loosely and saying, you feel clearly like, yes, there is something, but I can't tell you what it is right now. But I'm going to keep doing this every day until it reveals itself. Yeah, it feels really good. It feels really good to let something take shape with its own divine timing. And to kind of follow the trail of, I've said and shared with friends that I really feel like in my early 20s,

that misery was my compass. Like, if I'd get really miserable, it was time to go in a new direction. And that's brutal. It's a brutal way to live. I mean, you're literally like just putting yourself in chains until your misery is so great that you must free yourself. What I like to think of now that I'm doing is I'm making happiness my compass, as if it's the most important North Star. Like, how does that feel? Does that make you feel happy? Does that feel happy? Does that feel good? And it's a choice, but it's also like, is this move in this direction contributing to that energy? Do I feel uplifted or do I feel like, what are you doing? I try to listen to that now.

That's new. But the smile on your face when you say that tells me you feel right. It's new. Yeah. Which feels like it's probably a good place for us to come full circle also. So we're sitting here in the context of this podcast called Good Life Project. So if I offer that phrase out to you, to live a good life, what comes up? Oh, well, my newest, my most current understanding is that the number one thing I need to tend to

is the story I'm telling myself about myself in my own head. And the words I'm choosing about it, the narrative I'm building and creating, it's my contribution to world peace. It's my contribution to the inspiration of others. It's the one thing that I have to control. It's the thing I have to craft, to produce, to build on. And that story matters so, so dearly. And everything else that I'm ever going to experience in my life, that I'm ever going to contribute to another human soul, that I'm ever going

to contribute to this planet is very much dependent on my ability to stay focused on doing that very, very well. That's a good life. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, thanks so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we've included in today's show notes.

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