Good Life Project - Tamsen Fadal: Keeping It Together When Love Falls Apart

Episode Date: June 9, 2015

Tamsen Fadal is an award-winning broadcast journalist and television anchor on the evening news in New York City.She's worked incredibly hard to get where she is, traveling the world, entering war-zones and extreme settings, giving a voice to the voiceless and a serving as a trusted guide through times of extreme tragedy, disaster and misfortune.While she'd become comfortable being the face and voice of the news, though, she never thought she'd actually be the news. But, that's exactly what happened, and not in a good way, when her relationship with her husband and business partner in a match-making side-business fell apart.The news hit the papers and she was faced with not only navigating the extraordinary pain of a crumbling love, but the surreal task of doing it all under the microscope of the media, while also being the media. The tabloids and the internet were not kind. She was, after all, a very public person and someone positioned as an expert in finding love. And, now she was struggling.She would've loved to just pull back, to work things through in private and recover. But, it was her job to show up and put on the face of calm confidence on television.She found herself living two lives. Cool, upbeat, friendly newscaster by day and the falling apart human by night.In this week's conversation, we dive into Tamsen's life in journalism, the moments that have forever changed her and how the media is evolving. And we talk about her relationship, surviving what should be private in the most public way and then rediscovering her sense of identity and healing. She shared much of this journey, as well, in her new book, The New Single.This conversation is not just about transitioning from a marriage, it's about how to move through shattering challenges in life. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

People would expect to see post-divorce, like, you gotta get back out there and date. And I thought, date? I need to figure out who I am, and I need to like myself first, and then maybe love myself. It's one thing to have your personal life fall apart in private, where you can deal with it in the way that you need to deal with it. It's an entirely different thing to have that exact same thing happen when you're a well-known broadcast journalist and the anchor of a television news station in New York City. This week's guest, Tanza Vidal, went through that exact thing when her marriage largely exploded in a very public way. How she handled that, how she handled something that was one of the most hurtful and challenging things that anybody could go through in a personal life, but how she handled that when she was in the public eye is something that we go into in this week's episode. But we don't just explore that. We also really take a step back and explore her journey, how she moved

into journalism, what lights her up about it. We talked about the field of journalism and broadcast media now and how it's evolving at a breakneck pace and how there's this really kind of fascinating dance or struggle between entertainment and education and information and how you handle trying to be neutral and letting your opinion and your personality play a role, but also trying to be the voice of neutrality. It's a really challenging thing. Really excited to share this conversation with somebody who has an incredible amount to share about a lot of parts of life. I'm Jonathan Fields.

This is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you,

whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th

Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk. So, so much I want to explore with you. Oh, good. I kind of want to jump back and take you from the time that you were two years old all the way up through the car.

Okay, I can do it. But there's actually something I want to jump in with you first before we go there. And it's come up a number of times with me and with what we're doing here. So part of my mission with all the media that we create is with the interviews, especially, I don't like calling it, just conversations, is always making sure that we really give equal time to women, if not more. Because part of the genesis was I got really tired of reading fables to my daughter where at the end, the guy comes in and rescues a girl. I'm like, no, no, no, no, that can't happen. It's like the pretty woman episode at the end, right? So I've always had this mission to bring in strong, intelligent, creative women and have

great conversations and share them with the community. From the get-go, I've had to work so much harder to create that balance. And first I thought, well, it's a new show, or maybe it's just me. And then I started realizing no matter how established we were, the same exact dynamics. So then I start to talk to other people and I'm like, is this an across the board phenomenon? And the answer was yes, yes, yes. And then I start to talk to friends who are women, friends who hosted shows, friends who were in the media, same thing. And they were like, as a guest or an interviewer. I talked to a friend yesterday, and that's why it's kind of fresh in my mind,

who ran a large online media property, produced a large conference every year and published books. And she said the same thing, you know, like for their media, for speakers, for contributors to the books. It was so, it's so much harder. It's not that I can't find incredible women,

my God, they're like 10 times more than men, right? But it's a matter of there's something that makes women seemingly so much more resistant. And I'm curious because of your career, because you've been on every side of the camera and the microphone. Talk to me about this. Like, what's your take on the phenomenon? Um, I think that women are just much more stronger or because there are so many out there, they're more so much more hesitant to sort of bring themselves to some sort of public experience, you know, whether it be on stage or on a microphone or in a book. Right. Um, you know, I don't know. I think that there's a vulnerability that comes with everything. And I think I've learned that. I think I've been slapped with it in the past

three years. I worked really hard from when I was very young to be respected and have a good reputation and to always do the right thing. And that's what we're taught, right? As women. And I read a book a long time ago, and I think it was Kate White wrote it and it said, why good girls don't get ahead, but gutsy girls do. And the book was essentially about the fact that boys would sit on the floor and they would crash their cars and try to beat each other. And the women were playing with the dolls and very, very sweet to each other and very, very kind and polite. And they were supposed to be very, very proper. And I think that that just is kind of ingrained. It was ingrained in me anyway coming up through the years.

And I did never try to find any kind of vulnerability at all. I didn't want it to be exposed or anything. And then three and a half years ago, it happened. Like all the stuff that I tried to do to be so strong and independent and resilient kind of came crashing down right in front of me in the middle of the paper and New York city and market one. All right. So let's fill in some gaps here then. Um, so, you know, as we sit here, we're hanging out in New York city right now. Um, your daytime gig is your TV anchor, um, and major network stations. So a lot of publicity, very public personality. Um, and a couple of years back you also had, can we call it a side gig or your own company?

Yeah. Well, my husband and I at the time had a company. We ran a company and he was the front person, obviously, because he could do that. And then I ran the business end of that company to build it up for him. So we had something that in the future we ran together and I thought, wow, we're going to travel over the world. We're going to bring happiness to people and people will fall in love and we'll be the ones responsible. That's an incredible feeling when you introduce two people and they hit it off and they really like each other. So the company was about matchmaking.

It was a matchmaking company. It was called The Love Consultants. Where did that come out of? What's the genesis? You know, I, when I came to New York 10 years ago, uh, my, my ex who was, uh, my boyfriend at the time, uh, he was working in Philadelphia. We both were. And then I had gotten the job in, in New York city. And I looked at the landscape in New York when I was here because he was going to move here with me. And I said, Oh, there's just so many things. He was a trainer and he had done a spa business and opened up some gyms in Philadelphia. And he had just a very, very social person and

had a good social network in New York. And I was reading about matchmaking. It was talking about dating. It was way before match.com or JDate or anything. And they were talking about matchmakers in New York city. And there were a few of them at the time. And I said, what an incredible business like that seems like that's not even work, right? That's an incredible business of things that we kind of do instinctively. You know, somebody that might meet, you know, might look good or match well with somebody else. So we talked about it and we sat down and started creating a database of people that he had already known in New York. He had a decent network here already and interviewed people for a database because the statistics I'd read said

there were 200,000 more single women in New York City than men. And so the odds were against women and women were here getting older and not marrying as quickly. And it was a struggle. And I was one of those women, actually. I was mid-30s at that point.

We were not married and I had waited longer to focus on my career. And so we started the business very, very grassroots. We started with an ad in the back of New York Magazine. We started interviewing people at the Regency Hotel on Saturdays and Sundays and built a database from scratch for the business. And what was the – I mean, was the ultimate goal just to build something with some that you loved and to do something that was also going to make a big difference in other people's lives?

I think it was more the big difference first because I was really dealing with that personally and I understood it really well. And I knew that the women that were going to come to us were me, essentially. Not always easy to find somebody, you know, a little bit older. Again, Match.com and Tinder, you know, you weren't able to swipe somebody so quickly. So, um, yeah, so it was to make a difference and to make a difference and enjoy doing what we were doing together. Right. So you guys are building this. Um, and at the same time you're living, you're kind of living a double life. Sure. Because you're building, you know, a major career as a TV personality. So tell me about a little bit

about balancing that. I was working mornings at that point, early mornings. I'd get up at 2.30 and I would go to work. I'd be there by 3. I mean, I was right across the street. How can anybody be remotely human at 2.30 in the morning? I don't know. I think at that point our show went on the air.

I want to say I was at another network, but I want to say it was 4.30 or 5. I think it was 4.30 our show went on the air. Oh, I want to say I was at another network, but I want to say it was 4.30 or 5. I think it was 4.30 our show went on the air. But I put the piece together. I would do it and go out to wherever the story was unfolding because I was a street reporter at the time. And I would do live shots for two, two and a half hours. And then I would do a noon show from 12 to 12.30. And then I would come home about 1.30. And we had set up at that point,

the office in our home. And we had two people that were working with us or just, you know, freelance independent contractors, what have you. You know, we couldn't afford anybody full time at that point. And we were working hard to build the business. And we would have a dry erase board of the clients that we had. And then when we would have on the other side, people who were in the database of who could possibly be matches. And if we didn't have that, we would go to events. We would go to galas. We would go to dinners. We would meet people.

I mean we met so many people in New York as a result of – you know how New York works. It's a small town after a while, right? And that's what we did and it was 24-7. That was our life. That is what we did. And wrote at the same time, did articles and wrote for different websites that were out there. And then eventually wound up writing our first book, Why Hasn't He Called? Right.

And that came about because that was the question constantly women would ask. Like, I don't know why he didn't call. I don't know what happened. So like after the first date. Yeah, it would be after the first date or if they met somebody out and the person would ask for a card and they wouldn't call. Right. How does the answer to that question turn into a book? You know what?

The funny thing was is the publisher had said, well, we were talking about a title of a book called Text in the City because we were talking about the different texts that women would send us. Oh, that's a great title. Yeah. And I had the website actually. We were creating a website, Text in the City. And that was before texting was so big. And they said, well, I don't, we don't think that that title necessarily makes sense. So what's the number one question you're asked? And I go, well, the question is, you know, why didn't the guy call? They said, that's the title of the book.

And I said, why? And they said, because people want answers to their questions. And that's the question. So, you know, obviously the book was about a lot more than that, but that was kind of the, you know, the jumping off point. Right. Um, and I want, I want to fill in a little bit also, um, a little bit more just about the broadcast work that you're doing, because that, that seems to be still the heartbeat of your, your profession. It's where a lot of, Oh, it is. And even more, even more so now. So let's – we'll zoom back up to the place we are now. But I want to step back a little bit and fill in some gas because – so how did you actually – how did you get into it? And what is it about this that pulls you? Broadcasting?

Yeah. You know, every day is different, every single day. And I love people's stories. And that is the bottom line. And there's – that's the explanation. Like I love people's stories. And there's something – and you probably understand what I'm saying, um, that's the explanation. Like I love people's stories and there's something, and you probably understand what I'm saying. I mean, somebody leaves your, you know, somebody leaves your studio and you feel empowered by them and you've learned

something, whatever the story is, even if it's a tragic story, or even if it's a great story or an empowering story, you've learned something and been enlightened by them. And I think that people's stories, even through the hardest times of what I went through, carried me to the next place I was in life. And there are some very key people that I remember, key interviews, tragic situations that I go back to and I've learned, or those are filed away. But people's stories, that's what really attracted me early on. I started out in radio, ran my own board. I got up at, again, five in the morning to do morning drive or four in the morning, do morning drive in Tampa, Florida, and then eventually moved into television. And so I've been to Afghanistan, cover the war, been to hurricanes all over the country, tornadoes, tragedies. And then I've done some incredible things and interviewed incredible Broadway stars

and actors and the arts. And so I've really, I feel so blessed with what that industry has brought to me. Yeah. I mean, it built me, it grew me. Right. It's amazing because it's the industry is changing so quickly, I think, and also just media is changing. So, I mean, we're hanging out here in my home studio with like, you know. I love it too, by the way. conversations and then share them with people who may in some way benefit from, you know, rather than just you sitting there. It's something that drives me as well.

I think it's just, it's, it's an amazing, there's a possibility to do things like this that didn't exist even three, four or five years ago for people to just jump in. No question about it. And especially social media has been a big thing for me because at one point when I was broadcasting, we were broadcasting to people, right? So it was a one-way conversation unless you got on the phone with somebody or you went out in the field and met them or you brought them into the studio for a story. But now it's a real conversation. And so I remember when I was getting up early in the morning for WPIX and I was doing a 4 a.m. show when I moved over there.

And I was so tired and I thought, is anybody out there? Is anybody else awake with me? And I got on Facebook and this was so tired and I thought, is anybody out there? Is anybody else awake with me? And I got on Facebook and this was, you know, six years ago maybe. And it's still pretty early in Facebook. It was still really early in Facebook. And I had a couple, maybe 50 people on my page. And I remember the first person that, um, that got in touch with me and she was up every morning breastfeeding cause she had a newborn baby. And she said, Oh, I watch every morning. Cause my, you know, this is the time I get up and I went, Oh, this is a real person. And here's her picture. And here's a picture of her baby.

And so I would start doing shout outs, you know, in the morning. Cause I'm like, wow, there's 10 people up with me now there's 15. Now there's, so it was just really neat. And, um, I got to know who my audience really was and who we were talking to instead of just talking at somebody. Yeah. And I think that's such a game changer also, when you actually realize like there, there's a person and you start to have an understanding for who that community is and what their life is like and, and how to actually find the stories that resonate with them also and have a conversation with them. But like you said, the conversation side is really new. It really is new.

It's funny. Early on, a TV consultant used to say to us, picture somebody sitting in their living room. And when you're learning how to, you know, to read the teleprompter or talk on camera, picture them in the living room and picture you having just have a conversation with them. And it was always the hardest thing for me to do because I thought, who do I picture? My dad? Because I talked to him this way and I talked to my best friend this way. But now I do. Now I see them.

Now they're sitting on my Facebook or Twitter or Instagram or Vine or Periscope now. And you really are having a real conversation with people. Right. So let me ask you the flip side of that, though. Because it gives us the ability, it gives you the ability to actually make that big shift and say, oh, there's a conversation going on here. At the same time, it gives every person a voice. It does. And that can be phenomenal.

It can be devastating. And frightening. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So talk to me about this a little bit and how you sort of move with that. Well, you know, from just somebody that, you know, walks around, it's that, that, you know, walks around it, it's a little bit scary. It can be a little bit scary for me personally. You know, I love to hear from

so many people, but every once in a while you get these messages where you go, Oh gosh. So I think you have to really learn how to filter and to tune things out because people are very, very honest. And sometimes, you know, somebody came up to me the other day and she goes, I don't like the way your lips move. And I said, Oh, I don't know. So I found myself, I went back home and I was like, I don't know what's wrong with my lips. And I'm looking in the mirror at my lips, trying to figure it out. And I know I was very conscious, like for the next week, I went, I wonder if she hates my lips still. And that's one person out of, you know, however many, but I think it can have effects on you. And then we've seen it on a much more serious scale and a much more devastating scale when we look at the bullying that goes on online and the stories that we've covered on that. And I mean, you and I remember being in school and, you know, either being teased or made fun of or this group didn't like you or you weren't in the popular crowd.

And, but now it's on a whole different scale. And so I find that as exciting as the conversation is, it can be very, very, it can have a drastic and a lot of times deadly consequences. Yeah. I mean, it's really, it's, it's changed things in a way where the fact that there is a conversation, there's a huge increase in transparency. Sure. But at the same time, there's also – there's like transparency, but somebody can opt for anonymity. Right.

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Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is?

You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. With what you do, is there any voice in you that thinks about, before I say this or when we're working on a story, how is this going to land? And is there a reason for us to – do you think about the potential response or the potential blowback in deciding how to choose or tell a story? I always think about the responsibility I have because, you know, broadcast air to me is a precious commodity. And I've always respected it for a number of reasons because of who it reaches, because of how it affects that person. And you don't know where they are, you know, in the place that they are at that point. So you could be talking to somebody who's

in a severe depression or somebody that's, you know, it's all part of the background noise or somebody that really is connecting with you and trust you. So I do always think about that responsibility that I have, especially when I'm going off of script and ad-libbing or giving my opinion or talking freely. And I do, I have, I try anyway, and I don't know if my brain does it or not, but I try to think of it in three different ways, you know, who it's affecting, how they could take it and, you know, what they're going to do with that information. Cause I don't want it to have a bad negative or permanent impact that wouldn't be good. So take me a little bit behind the scenes.

You just mentioned that there are times where you go off script or you ad lib or you riff. Maybe more often than not. Like the viewing public. How much of what goes on if somebody's watching you on a screen, how much of that is scripted versus you just saying, I'm going to roll with this because I feel I need to just sort of say something. I mean, obviously with breaking news and you see that when we're doing continuous coverage, most of that, there's no prompter at all. And you're off the cuff and talking. And that's often the scarier things because you don't know what's going to unfold on camera. We've seen things unfold where we've seen somebody be shot or we've seen somebody

commit suicide on camera. So those are always a little bit – you're at 110 percent operating on your guard to watch what's going on, especially if you're bringing in live video, the Amtrak crash, for example, or derailment recently. That was unfolding at night. We could see it, but we couldn't see it. We didn't know how many people were hurt. We didn't know if anybody was dead at that point. So that was all off. That's 100 percent off script, uh, in a normal newscast. Most of it is written.

Uh, most of it, we go over first and, and write it and make sure that we're comfortable with it because everybody writes a little bit differently. And it's usually after the stories and you can see it, you can see when somebody goes, Oh, you know what? I had this experience and go off scripts. I'd say like 20% maybe in a newscast, 25% will be off script and 75% will be know, almost entirely ad lib, you're just kind of rolling with the story. That's got to, just on a personal level for you, when you're like, when the camera stopped rolling and you step away from the desk or out of the field, it's got to be exhausting for you. It is.

It's a, it's a little bit of everything. You know, it's a lot of why I got into the business because that's the real storytelling. That's, that's where you're watching it alongside the audience now. And, um, yeah, it can be, it's, um, it's less exhausting and more, um, I just, I guess I just feel like, oh, we did our, our job and we did the service that we're supposed to do to the community. And that's when you really feel like you've served the community that you're supposed to be serving, especially in a place like New York where we have a lot more of those stories. And I feel like there's a huge responsibility, and I always hope that I get it right.

And I guess especially also because I don't know if you travel that much now, and I say I was extremely, um, fortunate in unfortunate situations, but it really taught me, you know, what we have to be thankful for. It taught me what our military is doing all around the world that we say in soundbites, but we don't really realize until you're sitting there with them and watching them wait in line to call their loved ones or all eating together or, uh, you know, at that point we were sleeping, you know, in the, in the tents and, um, were there any, I'm sorry. Oh no, no. It really, it really grew me.

Yeah. There's no question. Are there any particular moments or stories or individuals that really stand out as just being moments that will never leave you? Yeah, there were some incredible ones. You know, when I was in Kandahar and I was in Afghanistan, and then when we made our way into Kabul, we had a translator that went with us because we weren't even embedded at that point.

There wasn't a word embedded with the troops. We went along with the Air Force. And I remember we stepped off of the base to go into Kandahar. I'm sorry, to go into Kabul. And we went through the area where the journalists, the Canadian journalists, were killed along that road. And I remember we were with the translator. And, you know, they translate, but it's only so much. And I remember him turning and going, thank you for being here and telling our story.

He was maybe 14 years old. And I went, the translator was 14 years old. Then when we went into the soccer stadium there, the beheadings had taken place. I mean, that was just a whole nother, it's like, I can't even, like, I can go back there and I can't even describe what that does to your, to your inside as things that we, as we walk around New York or Manhattan or Florida or Texas or wherever it is, don't see and don't feel, uh, those kinds of things. And then with regard to the soldiers, there was so many, uh, there was one in particular, I remember in the air force, actually an airman who, uh, his wife had just had their baby

and was, you know, sending, sending pictures through the mail of, um, of his newborn baby. It was like a month old. And I went, oh my gosh, he has never held his baby girl. Like that's just incredible. And the sacrifice is phenomenal. Yeah. Um, it's gotta be, um, I mean, it's got to change on some level also. I think it did.

I was in Philadelphia at the time and I remember coming back over the bridge into the city and I saw the big skyline of Philadelphia and I went, oh, my gosh, I don't deserve all this. I remember feeling that. I remember feeling almost resentful of everything that we have here for a little while because they had so little. And, uh, and I thought, I hope I kind of hope I always keep that with me. So I, I don't forget. And I always stay very grounded because that was a, that's an important part as you move through your life and you become more experienced and maybe you make more money or maybe you, you know, move to a bigger place, uh, to keep that feeling of being grounded from where you began. I started in, um, market one 50 or one 45 in Oak Hill, West Virginia, lived in an apartment that was $200 a month and above a

furniture store. And I, um, and I always cherish those days because they really, uh, they grew me and I learned who I was then and what I could actually, uh, deal with or tolerate or get through or work through. And, uh, I felt like nothing would ever be that difficult as you move on. There's always more difficult things, but that's where I began. Yeah. So, yeah. And you, and you really began in Texas. I really began in Texas while I started. Uh, my dad was from Texas, my mom, New York, and we moved to Texas when I was young, about eight years old. And then I started in Texas, but my first TV job was Oak Hill, West Virginia.

And, um, and, uh, you know, lived on the side of a mountain there and rolled into town and they said, you're the new news girl, huh? And I said, how do they know this? You know, this is population. I don't know what. And, um, so it was just really fun, but that's where it began. So I didn't, I didn't start in New York. I started carrying my own camera and my own, you know, the decks were huge then and you carried your audio and you've really, that's where you learned how to tell stories. Do you ever sort of look back at that? I mean, it's funny because I think of certain musicians or, you know, artists who've made it, you know, kind of like gotten exactly where they were. And sometimes you sit down with them or you read these in-depth interviews with them.

There's this yearning for almost sort of like the simplicity and the scrappiness and the possibility of like those early days, even though when you're there, all you want to do is not be there. Oh, yeah. I was making a resume tape the minute I arrived. But now when I look back, I go, that was just a fun time. I hope I appreciate it as much as I do. And I think I did, even though I was trying to get out at the same time, because there was this kind of everything's going to be okay.

And it was a different time. I didn't know if people liked me or didn't like me on Facebook. I wasn't worried about how many Twitter followers I had. Nobody asked me if I had posted on Instagram. You know, it was just okay. I was just a girl. I was 25 years old driving around in a station wagon in the mountains and the hollers of West Virginia trying to make it as a journalist. It's a neat time.

So zoom in the lens back forward now. Oh, it's a different time. Right. You work your way up. You're going to bigger stations, bigger stations, bigger markets, big stories. You become an award-winning journalist now. You've got Emmy's tier of credit. You've got this's tier of credit.

You've got this really tremendous career. You're building a business on the side and a marriage and the business. So you've got this serious daytime in the media, voice of journalism, and then you're building this company, and the company is about love and matchmaking. I think more about humanity. Talk to me about that. I think, you know, we got into the business because it was more about people. It didn't feel like any way it was as much of a business as it was about people. It was something that you'd kind of do naturally, right?

It's human nature. If you meet somebody and you think they, you know, they're single, they're looking for, you know, they're looking for love, they're looking for a partner. And, um, and it felt like it was, it was just another part of life versus maybe making, you know, making a trinket and trying to sell as many as possible. So it felt, um, when I say we did it 24 seven, we did because it, it didn't always feel like it was a business. It felt like it was part of what everybody kind of looks for at some point. And so I enjoyed it for that reason. And I think it gave me a – I guess it – you know, yoga or meditation or eating right give you a good feeling.

You know, love and seeing somebody connect and seeing somebody be happy who came to you initially and said, like, I can't find anybody. I'm in New York and I'm lonely and I don't go out on a Saturday night. And we met some really incredible people with some, you know, great stories and some sad stories and, um, and to be able to help them even on a couple of dates that maybe made them feel better about themselves. We're very, you know what it feels like to give somebody confidence. And it's a great thing. So you start building this.

And I guess part of the question for me is always, and this is a personal curiosity because I have a lot of just individual passions and deep interests. Yeah, I do too. And I'm always, you know, classic entrepreneurial ADD. I own like a hundred URLs. Oh, I do too.

GoDaddy loves me. Oh my God. I should just be honest. And you know, there's promo codes, by the way. I know, I do too. GoDaddy loves me. Oh my God. I should just be honest. And you know there's promo codes, by the way. I know. It's scary. But you get to a place. So I'm constantly saying, and I've done this before where I've sort of said, I love doing this and I'm fascinated with it. And then the question is, if I was actually doing this as a business, would that so change what interests me and what draws me to it that it would gut the reason that I came to it or would that actually be okay? I think it does a little bit of both. I mean I think for me it did anyway.

I think sometimes when you're thinking about it as a business, you lose part of the humanity of it and that's a sad thing to do. Then I also think that if you're thinking of it as a business, you're able to help more people with whatever it is or sell more or whatever it is. So I think that's a double – it's a double-sided coin. Like it's a little bit of both things. And I think there – as long as you get back to the basics when you can and realize what you really got into. And so when we would make a match, then we went, oh, this is why we were in this. This is why we did this. So the stressful moments of somebody calling

and the date didn't show up or something happens where you go, oh no, we can't do this one more second. We can't, can't, can't, can't. And then something great happens. But I agree with you. I have that entrepreneurial spirit too. And sometimes it's hard to know once it becomes an actual business if it still becomes a passion.

Yeah. It's funny. I've passed life as a lawyer. And so while I was planning on leaving the law, I kind of started making a list of cool things to do if I could actually earn a living doing them. And one of the first things on my list, because I love the outdoors, I love wellness and entrepreneurship, was to start some sort of adventure guiding company. So we ran a couple of trips just locally. And I realized really quickly, I was like, I love mountain biking. I love rock climbing. I love hanging out with friends doing this. I had like, as soon as it turned into a business for me, it was done. Yeah. Oh, was it really? Even your passion for any of those things? Because I turned into a tour guide and I found like the thing that I love most was doing activities that the nature of the activity intrinsically forced me to be present. And as soon as it was

a business and I was a guide in the business, it took me utterly out of that. So there was the joy of sharing something I loved with other people. But that's not the thing that brought me to those things in the first place. So the productivity erased the passion. Yeah, to a certain extent. And I think I see that happen with so many entrepreneurs without any awareness of what's actually going on. I don't think you're aware of that until you've gotten beyond it and you're miserable and you wake up again and you go, I got to go back to law for this and maybe made more money. You end up building a cage, which is – and then nobody has any sympathy for you because

you did this to yourself. Yeah. You created the business. What were you thinking? Exactly. So you're kind of rock and rolling this business 24-7 between your full-time job, between this. And I have to say he did the majority of, you know, of it because that was his full-time, his full-time job.

So I would try to run more of the back end of things to keep, you know, cause you've got to have the fun part of the business and you've got to have the serious part of the business. And the serious part was kind of what more I was built for, I think, just, just because of what my role is in the media, too. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes.

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You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. So then things are going to roll along, but then at a certain point, things start to go south. Yeah. And it's funny.

I did an interview the other day, and somebody said, what was the exact point things went bad? And I said, I don't know. But I do know this, that one day I was sitting across from him at a restaurant, one of our favorite restaurants that used to go to all the time, Bar Pee Dee down on 6th and Bleeker. And it, you know, it has everything. It's outdoor seating and there's like these, it's a very European crowd and it's just kind of fun. And you see New York going by and taxi cabs and smell the exhaust fumes, you're eating pasta and drinking wine. And I felt really lonely. And I looked and he was on his phone and I was reading a magazine while we were having dinner.

And I went, Oh, that's, I'm, I'm lonely, not alone, but I'm lonely. And over the course, I don't know when that happened. And I, over the course of time, I just, um, you know, it got to be where I didn't, didn't want to come home and I didn't – I had to work a little bit longer and I just – I felt sad. And I thought, I don't know if it's because of the business and we're not giving enough to our relationship or we just grew in separate ways. And at that point, I had moved to another station. I was working at a job that I really loved, uh, where I am now. And, um, and it, yeah, it started to, to crumble. And, uh, we, you know, we tried, like, I, I'm very honest about the fact that we went to therapy. We went to, to couples therapy cause I got married

when I was older and I, I can't, I can't, this can't not work. Like this can't fail. I waited this long to get married and it's going to, and the first person, these these are all the things, and the first person in my family to get divorced. And if I fail at my marriage, I'm going to fail at everything across the board. Cause that's what happens. You know, you fail at one thing. And I think that there are different pockets that you feel like it bleeds into. And, um, and in time we realized that it was, you know, it's not going to work. And so that was a, that was a hard thing to accept and embarrassing because of the business. Well, the business that we were doing was to help people fall in love and we had fallen out of love at the, at the same time. And, um, maybe we did what you're talking about coming

full circle is went from it being a passion to being a business and then to the passion, not being there anymore. Yeah. And, and I could definitely see how it's not just a relation. I mean, tell me if this was going on in the conversation or at least in your mind at the time, you know, I want to try and resolve my marriage and see if this is saveable or see like figure out what's going on here. But simultaneously, I have a big reputation as a broadcast journalist and I have a company that's based on the fact that we know how to help people fall in love. And so it's not just like you're not just doing a personal dance of trying to figure out a relationship. It was everything.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people didn't know about it because I was probably in denial myself for a long time that that was actually happening. So people thought because I was, I had turned 40 that year that they thought I was trying to have kids and they thought I was, you know, I was, I was losing weight and I was kind of withdrawn, you know, at work and quiet, which is not, I'm not known for being quiet. But, you know, you kind of pull back into yourself to figure things out. And they thought I was sad because I wasn't having, you know, didn't have children and I wanted children. And the truth was my marriage, my marriage was falling apart.

I had fallen apart. And so when it hit the newspaper that morning, people were shocked because they had no, they had no idea except what they knew, you know, from the outside. And so, yeah, it was, it was embarrassing and it was, and I didn't have an answer. Like I didn't have a good answer for anybody. And I felt like I needed to give people an answer. Like they deserved an answer, I guess, in my mind. And I didn't have a good one. Why, why did you, what was it that made you feel that? Well, I'd been so public with everything, you career is public. My business was pretty public because he was on television all the time running the business and doing expert appearances and stuff. And we had two books out.

And so I felt like I owed people an explanation. But I didn't know what to say. That's got to be tough. I guess that's when you realize you're human. Because you just want to heal. I mean, you're in so much pain and you just want to get through it. But at the same time, you feel obliged to sort of like be publicly responsible to what you're going through. Yeah, I think I am.

And that's where I separated some things. I would get up in the morning and I would go to work. And as soon as I got off the air, I'd like pull my makeup off and just go home and just like lay on the couch or, you know, go walk around just aimlessly for hours. And, uh, it was really, was really hard for me, you know, and I, I was, um, really sad, really sad. I lost my mom when I was 20 years old. And that was, I thought, um, I'm never going to go through a loss like that again. And so I, I think I, it took a long time for me to open up and trust somebody and love, uh, somebody. And then to lose that again, it just felt like as, you know, some kind of death all

over again, obviously not the same extent, but, uh, loss is loss. Yeah. And, and I'm just thinking also just pure practical standpoint. You're also, I mean, the business was in your home too. It was in my home and we had, um, we had actually moved it out in the past in the last year, which was good. Um, but he was still running the business and I was still running the back end of the business. So we were not living together anymore and then still trying to,

you know, run the business for a little while together until finally I realized, okay, I can't, I can't do both. I just can't do that. And, um, it just didn't seem, it didn't seem disingenuous to my soul and why we got into it in the first place. And, um, so yeah, so I gave that up and I, at the time thought I'm never gonna, like, I just can't, I don't know how to even get through this. I don't even know how to explain this. And I don't know where I'm going to be, you know? And I ran into, um, the day everything hit the paper, I ran into somebody I wasn't a huge fan of and he wasn't a fan of me at a, um, at event I had to go to and he didn't say anything and he like opened his arms up and I, and I thought, oh gosh, I can't believe like of all people I don't want to run into after being so embarrassed.

And I said, hi. And he hugged me and said, it's not going to be like this 365 days from now. And I went, whatever. And I realized those are the only words that I really remembered out of everyone saying, I'm sorry. And it's going to be OK. And you're going to be stronger and you're better than this. Those were the words I remembered because they were the ones that are true. And it really at the time, I didn't think they were important.

And now I realize just how important they are. I try to remember that all the time. So how do you then do the dance of I need to figure out – I mean I need to figure out how to get through what turns into a divorce. Sure. get through what turns into a divorce. Um, and yeah, I don't know what was happening behind the scenes, but you know, from all public accounts, not a friendly and not an easy one. Not, not. And simultaneously trying to, um, like you said, you felt this responsibility sort of publicly and you have a very public career. I mean, it's gotta be a brutal road to try and simultaneously navigate. I mean, anyone alone tough. I mean, it's got to be a brutal road to try and simultaneously navigate. I mean, anyone alone, tough.

I mean, and you're doing it all simultaneously and trying to be true to your heart and like, you know, do what you need to do to heal on a personal level and move through a really difficult time. There's news stories breaking on you. Right. And then you're. Yeah, I didn't expect to ever read the news. And then you're showing up and like telling the news.

Right. Yeah. How do you talk showing up and like telling the news. Right. Yeah. How do you talk me through this a little bit? Those were, yeah, there were, it's embarrassing and it was a little bit scary. A lot of it is sad. And I guess I, you know, people say like, you just do what you have to do to get through. I don't really know. I did everything very systematically.

Like I remember I was at a charity event the night that the paper called and I realized it was going to be out the next day. I was crying in the corner and I was emceeing the event that night. It's funny. I still see the pictures. I have some of them on my computer and I look. You can see my eyes are glassy, but nobody else knew. And I had been in the corner crying and I'm standing there standing next to, uh, Kris Jenner, you know, smiling in this photo. But so I'll never forget it. Like I, I have that picture and I went, Oh my gosh, I was, I was a mess. So I think you do what

you have to do, um, on the outside, which doesn't always feel right and feels really fake. But, um, I needed to do it to get through that night. And then I systematically, you know, the next day I knew it was going to be in the paper. I knew people were going to see it. And I just planned methodically my day of you're going to get up, you're going to go to work, you're going to come home, you know, you're going to find something to do to keep your mind off that you're going to stay off the phone because I got so many phone calls after that of people, you know, curiosity, fact people hadn't heard of in years, hadn't heard from in years because people like, you know, they like to talk, they like to be part, they like to be involved. I think for me, what was important just to rebuild who I was, I started going to yoga

religiously then because it was an hour I could take out and turn my phone off and didn't have to talk to anybody. And, uh, and then I started doing little things one at a time to my home. And, um, and I don't know if I had a, if it was a traditional or non-traditional way of healing, but for me it was very practical and it was what I needed to do to start becoming myself again. Cause I had lost who I was. Like I didn't, I hadn't traveled in a long time. I didn't remember what made me happy, which is such a word. Like how do you define happy? But I didn't know what it was that was going to make me feel good again on the inside and heal all that. But I got through it by systematically making a plan and a list and a calendar every day.

So I wasn't thinking. I was just on automatic. So I love the focus on self-care and reclaiming a sense of identity because I think that's one of the biggest things that happens whenever you go through some major change like that. The question is kind of scrolling through my head, which is that it's probably not unusual for people to go through any sort of traumatic loss, whether it's a divorce or loss of a friend or loss of a parent. And at a point in your life where very often you tend to be sort of like really reflective also and thinking about like, what do I want the future to, how do I want to create the future to, if they have the ability to do it, hit pause. I mean, like Elizabeth Gilbert classic, right? You actually have something in your book, which is a little bit of a riff on that, but slightly different. But you're in a profession where the few people that I know that have been sort of like camera side, they've shared, you know, in confidence with me that there's always the concern that if I'm not on camera for one day or if somebody else comes in, God forbid, you know, like gets better ratings for a short window of time while I'm out, like I'm done. Yeah.

Is that. And you're not on your game. Right. So it's almost like, you know, you may, was there any ever since where like, I would love to just hit pause and take, just take some time and recover and just focus on me. But I don't, the career that I've chosen doesn't really allow that. Yeah. A hundred percent.

I mean, I, when I talk about the traveling I did, it was in pockets of short, short windows of when I could do it. But I think that any woman, uh, how about this? Me over the age of 40 is scared of that every day now to this very, you know, to this day. So yeah, I'd love to take a pause and go, do I really know who I am and where I want to be? Cause, um, I still struggle with that. I think we all do, but I, I, I still struggle with that. And, um, and I have those fears, like there are real fears that a lot of us don't talk about in the industry. We don't talk about the fact that, you know, we're aging or, you know, you're not, you don't look like you did when you were 25 anymore. And, um, yeah, there's a true fear of that and a true need to put the stop button on there, but never a time to do it. You know, that would have

been the time I would have loved to have done that. It's just a go away and like, I don't know, hide in the back of my dad's house for a while. And I didn't have the luxury to do it. So I, I did what I could for self care. And I guess what I've tried to share is my recipe for it. So it's not, you know, what I wrote's not maybe traditional to what people would expect to see post-divorce. Like, you've got to get back out there and date. And I thought, date? I need to figure out who I am. And I need to like myself first and then maybe love myself.

Yeah. And that's what you just mentioned. You brought up, you know, you have a book which is out right around now, right around the time that this will be airing. And it's sort of reflecting on this journey and giving some non-traditional, giving some of your thoughts and things in your voice and bringing in some friends that you have also who, you know, have specific expertise in different fields. Um, how do you get to a place where you're back enough where you actually rediscover that identity and you feel like I'm two things. How do you get to that place? Um, and how do you know that you're there and how do you know that you're there enough to now turn around and write about it? Uh, I don't, I don't know if I was ready to even write about it. Uh, I know that I wrote about the things that worked for me.

I know that I'm still learning every day. Like I, I had a little pocket the other day I had gone through some surgeries recently and, and I was, uh I finally went back to yoga. And I went Saturday morning actually and it was like 11, 15. And I went back to my routine that I had not done in a while. And I said, oh, I think I'm feeling okay again. Because when I went through the surgeries, I went through this kind of sadness and feeling like, wow, vulnerable by my age. Vulnerable about the fact I'm single again and in New York city and, you know, working. And, um, and so I don't know

if you ever get there completely to know that you're back, but I think you get your, it's good enough. Like it's, it's good enough. And after my, uh, after the divorce and after all the publicity and after, you know, listen, we didn't have a, it wasn't a pretty divorce. There's, there's, you know, you can, you can see that. And, um, but I needed to forgive him so I could forgive myself. And then I needed to not have that anger. And once I eventually worked hard on that and I did by, um, by building my own self confidence, I felt like I had started to arrive at a place where, okay, I have a little bit to say about this now. Cause that really worked for me.

Um, when things were so public, I got a lot of emails from women all over the place, like sent to my website, uh, talking about similar problems that they had had or explaining, you know, in pages explaining their stories. And I went, wow, it's not just me. You know, you're, you're so myopically focused. I think when you go through something, you think it's just you that's been through it. And then when you realize it's not, um, it's eyeopening. Yeah. You're like, Oh, wait a minute. There's a whole world. There's a whole other world. There are people that go through it. And even if it's not you, it's,

it's always interesting when I get to have a conversation with somebody who's been through something that's not fun, um, but somehow has figured out how to reframe at least elements of it so that it's now becoming, you can start to make the shift from tormentor to teacher to a certain extent. Reframe is a nice word. It's really what I think what you have to do. Yeah, I think so. And it's, but it's brutally hard. Nobody teaches that process. I mean, well, therapy think so. And it's, but, and it's, um, but it's brutally hard. Uh, nobody one. Or you fill out a doctor's form now,

divorced or single or whatever it is. So nobody teaches those little moments. They teach you how to online date or they teach you how to do little things along the way. But I think you have to dig down deep into those daily little minutiae things that we go through that define us. Yeah. And, and what I found really, um, nice about sort of like the, the, the message that came out for you is, um, and to me it was sort of like a central part of the book that you wrote is really the next step is really just rediscovering you. Oh yeah. Um, and, and in fact, you, you, um,

you share a mutual friend of, I know we have like a Zalene mutual friend, Melanie Nockin and like this, you know, wonderful term that she came up with other hood. Yeah. It's great. Talk to me a little bit about this. I mean, I'm, I'm, uh, you know, I'm other hood. I am. I didn't think I was ever going to be. And, um, I, at 40 years old, you know, we started going through some problems and then at 41, we were going separated. And, and so I, um, we never had children and it's something that somebody asked me, what's, what's my one big regret. And I said, I think it's that I never had a chance to make that decision. I mean, maybe I did and I just didn't realize it

along the way, but, uh, he and I just didn't realize it along the way, but he and I were talking about so many other issues by that point of not being together, that talking about having a child at a critical point of when I needed to just talk about it. So I have a little nephew and I never say never and adoption is always an option for me. But yeah, otherhood is something that when she came up or she had phrased that and the book came out, I went, Oh my goodness. Like that's what it is. It's, um, kind of this

whole movement, you know? And then I think that that's what the new single is too. It's this movement of women who, I mean, look, this isn't the divorce that your mother might have had or even a couple of generation before this one. I mean, this is women who are in these careers and they're confident and they're someplace great in life. And then this relationship part didn't work out and they're starting over again. And it doesn't make it easier for any of us. But Melanie certainly understands. I don't know. She has a great way of putting things and making you feel like everything's okay.

Like it's, you're not some standout person because you're a woman with no children. But sometimes it's hard when I think about that. Yeah. And I'm alone by myself thinking I'm single. I don't have children. What is my life? So we all struggle with it. That's why I don't know if we're ever ready to write a book, but we have to do it sometime,

right? If you want to, if it's in you. So how do you answer that question sitting here now? Like if the question you just offered, what is my life? How do you answer that now? You know, I think, I think my life is richer now than it's ever been because of some of the losses in it. I think that I've realized, even though's ever been because of some of the losses in it. I think that I've realized, even though I said the words for a long time, that for all the self-help books there are, that balance was important. And now I really understand what that means. I understand that, you know, when you're younger, you have the whole world ahead of you, right?

When you're in your 40s and your 50s, 60s, you know, things look different. I've realized that I have to have pockets of everything in my life, or it doesn't really matter for me anyway. And those need to be self-care and they need to be able to live a life that I feel is good enough. And I do, I feel like I'm there. I feel like I have my, you know, health is very important to me. Wellness is important to me, time with my own thoughts and being okay with that. For a long time, I wasn't. I didn't want to be alone with the noise in my head.

And my self-talk is critical. And it has been for the past few years. I've learned how important it is to say the right things to yourself. Yeah. Because it's everything. Yeah. There's a little person that sits inside of it's everything. Yeah. There's a, there's, there's a little, the little person that sits inside of everybody's head. I know I have a few of them actually. I

think a lot of times like there's a round table. Yes. Mine is a panel. Right. Or it is everything before anything actually comes out into the world. Um, so the last question I usually ask anytime, uh, we have these conversations is what does it mean to live a good life? But I kind of think you just answered it unless there's something you want to add to that. No, you know, I think that meeting people and continuing to tell their stories for me as a good life. And I think living a good life is being okay to walk down the street and be satisfied. I think when it's too high in one direction and obviously too low in the other, that's not good. That's too high or too low. I think good is right

there in the middle for me anyway. And to have all of those things, um, taken care of wellness inside and out. Anything else, uh, you want to bounce back and cover? You're good. No, I think I appreciate the fact that I'm okay to talk about all this stuff now because at one point I didn't want to. And I think I've had such incredible support from people that I thought were going to judge me and viewers and things like that because I wanted to always be perfect for them. I'm reading your news and I'm delivering the story and I have to fit this mold and I don't fit it, but everyone's still okay with it. And that's nice. I wonder if they're more than okay with it. I wonder if seeing you as a vulnerable, real human being is actually something, you know,

it creates a connection which goes beyond anything that could ever have been created when you're the broadcaster. I, I don't know. I, I, I guess I could only hope that I, I was scared of that for a long time though. I thought that, that not being that perfect person would mean failure. And instead I feel like, um, I go into work and I don't worry about that anymore. And I get on there and again, it goes back to our having a conversation with people. Like I've talked to so many of our viewers that are the same, you know, they're single or they're single and they're trying to, you know, raise children on their own or they've gone through something. Um, so maybe that vulnerability is, is just okay. Maybe it's, maybe it is good. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Hey, I really enjoyed that conversation. If you found it valuable as well, um, would so appreciate if you would just head on over to iTunes,

take a couple of seconds and, uh, let us know, share, um, share a review or rating always honest. And, um, if you found this episode, the conversation valuable, and you think other people, maybe friends or family would enjoy and benefit from it, go ahead and share it with them as well. And as always, if you want to know what's going on with us at Good Life Project, then head over to goodlifeproject.com. And that's it for this week. I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever,

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