Good Life Project - The Power of Living Authentically (even when it’s hard) | Danica Roem

Episode Date: June 9, 2022

My guest today, Danica Roem, went from fronting a Death Metal band by night while building a career as an accomplished journalist by day, to being the first person to be elected and serve in any U.S. state legislature while openly transgender.When you hear that story, you might think, “wow, that’s amazing, but I don’t really relate.” Not so fast. When you zoom the lens out, Danica’s story is really about the quest to live as the truest expression of yourself, to not stifle or deny who you are, and to find a sense of home for all parts of you within a community. Which is something nearly all of us often struggle with. I know I do. This is why I was so excited to be in conversation with Danica Roem. My chat with Danica takes us back to her teenage years, where she first found her community in (what may sound surprising now, but won’t later) metal music. We talk about the struggles of masking the authentic parts of yourself in order to fit in, and how she’s been able to use her experiences to relate with people from all different backgrounds on a human level. Danica’s new memoir-meets-manifesto, Burn the Page: A True Story of Torching Doubts, Blazing Trails, and Igniting Change, deconstructs the many, sometimes outrageous and deeply isolating and offensive stories her doubters and opponents have thrown at her and shows through brutal honesty how she’s turned her identity, values and experiences into her greatest strengths. She brings that same honesty and authenticity to our conversation today, so know that you’re in for a real treat. You can find Danica at: Website | TwitterIf you LOVED this episode you’ll also love the conversations we had with Jeffrey Marsh about living into your own sense of identity, unapologetically. Check out our offerings & partners: My New Book SparkedMy New Podcast SPARKED. Visit Our Sponsor Page For Great Resources & Discount Codes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When you spend every day trying to be the person other people want you to be while still exploring your identity enough to be different, it can be exhausting and mentally tolling to keep that up every day for four years. My guest today, Danica Rome, went from fronting a death metal band by night while building a career as an accomplished journalist by day to being the first person to be elected and served in any US state legislature while openly transgender. And when you hear her story, you might think, wow, that's amazing, but I don't really relate to it. Well, not so fast. When you zoom the lens out, well, Danica's story is really about the quest to live as the truest expression of yourself, to stifle or not deny who you are, to find a sense of home for all parts of you

within a community, which is something nearly all of us struggle with. I know I do. So think about the first time you felt seen and heard despite what you look or talk or act like, what you believe or who you love. We all want to be embraced for who we truly are. And there's no better feeling than finding that affirmation and safety in your chosen community, whether it's family, friends, or even strangers you share a common interest with. Experiencing life's smallest and most significant moments is just so much more meaningful when shared with other people. And this is especially relevant now, right? When it's so easy to choose divisiveness over unity or focus on the differences between ourselves and the next person versus the things that we share in common. But when we peel back all those external layers and labels and politics and

beliefs and more, what we find is that we're all human. And that shared experience is the common ground we can always stand on. This is why I was so excited to be in conversation with Danica. So in addition to her passion for metal, love of service, and being a part of the historic group that flipped seats in the 2017 Virginia election, Danica's writing has been featured in USA Today, People, GQ, New York Times, Elle, and so many others. And she was the subject of the GLAAD award-winning documentary, This Is How We Win. And in this conversation, Danica takes us back to her teenage years, where she first found able to use her experiences to relate with people from all different backgrounds on the most human level. isolating, and offensive stories her doubters and opponents have thrown at her and shows through this brutal honesty how she has turned her identity and values and experiences into her greatest strengths. And she brings that same honesty and authenticity to our conversation

today. So know that you're in for a real treat. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch,

getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman.

I knew you were going to be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot.

Flight Risk. It was fun to see, learning more about you, reading about you, listening to other conversations, your enduring passion for George Carlin, which is someone who I have always followed as, you know, not just a comedian, but one of the, I think one of the most pointed and prolific social commentary and almost philosophers of a couple of generations. And, you know, I never agreed with everything George had to say. I'm sure George didn't agree with everything he had to say. Some of the, but the way in which he presented arguments, the way in which he presented humor,

that is really what resonated very strongly with me. That and the fact that he grew up in Catholic school in the Bronx. My mother is from the Bronx, also went to Catholic school, and so did I go to Catholic school, but in Virginia. It's actually kind of funny that the name of your podcast is The Good Life, because I went to St. Bonaventure, right? The Good Life. And I actually had a class called Good Life when I was in college. That's pretty funny. Yeah, well, no connection, by the way. We are not affiliated in any way, shape, or form. Yeah, there's a little part of me that was wondering if the Franciscans were running this podcast.

That would have been cool. No, not at all. And I agree with you on sort of like Carlin. I think there are plenty of things that I completely don't agree with that he says. But there was something about the way that he would step into a conversation. It was his energy. There was something that was just so like, I'm going to tell it the way I see it. And I'm going to speak to you not from above or not from

the side, but just from like face to face, shoulder to shoulder on the same level and never assume anything. And I think that's different, especially in this day and age. What George did that was so effective that with me was especially is he had such a strong anti authoritarian streak. And he would put that on display almost regardless of who was in power. Although he certain while he certainly had his critiques for Democrats, he had some special critiques really for the hypocrisy that he would see from the other side, especially. And what I really, really liked with George as well is his ability to confront the taboo, find a way to make you laugh about it, and then question the power that is behind what has made something become taboo. I thought that he was very effective

in the way that he did that. And funny, like, you know, like the way he would talk about LGBTQ people, for example, he would try to tie that in, speaking to about like, he couldn't understand how right wing, you know, social conservatives could be opposed to LGBTQ people, because he's like, what population is more like less likely to have an abortion? And so you would figure they would make natural, natural allies. Now, obviously, we know a lot of LGBTQ people do have abortions, right? And, you know, that's just, that's not something that, you know, is necessarily trivial. But the larger point that he was trying to make on it was the inexplicable nature of discrimination. And why would you want to take people's rights away instead of trying to make friends with people?

I think that was his larger point. Yeah. At the heart of it, it's funny, as much as he railed against almost everybody in every way, shape or form, underneath it, you always felt that there was a sense of a genuine love for humanity. As cranky as he was, there was something that said, I want us to do better. On the other hand, he could be very misanthropic and still, despite that misanthropy, still very much like being around people and loving making people laugh, for example. It's just that he had an utter disbelief in the ability of human beings to always do the right thing. Yeah, I think that was enduring until his I would imagine his last breath, actually. And I did get to see him live, by the way, shortly. Oh, wow.

In Maryland at pure sex, actually. Yeah, it before he died. Oh, wow. That's amazing. In Maryland at Pier 6, actually. Yeah, that was pretty cool. I got there a little bit late because I was working. But yeah, that was super cool. And I saw the last bit that he did about someone named Dave was pretty amazing. Nah. And he also, I mean, to your point on his social commentary and really bringing up these issues, I mean he literally creates a list that ends up generating a massive Supreme Court decision like at the end of the day.

I still know all the words. I think most of us do. And it's been interesting also because over time it's been interesting to see how many – like some of words drop off the list you know to a certain extent which is kind of fascinating yeah it used to be that you could get like in like an sec fine for saying the word shit for example and now that one is it's so commonly used and i think part of it is also that maybe those fines do get put out but basically it's almost like the cost of doing business now for depending on the organization that you're with also and i i said sec earlier that's a virginian term it's a fec but um funny thing is even in their case now it's almost like the system has become so dysfunctional in terms of their ability to govern almost that it just kind of doesn't matter there's there's no

one watching the hen house anymore, not even the fox. And so it's just like, okay, you know, come on in, do what you want. Yeah. And as you shared the other similarity, he grew up in Catholic school. So did you in the early days. And I know you talk about it and you write about it in not the most glowing terms. It was a tough, tough experience for you. Yeah. But at the same time, like my Catholic school upbringing, it was not as hard as a lot of people's. I never got into a fistfight, for example, despite one person trying. One person pushed me 15 times in one day trying to get me to hit him back and I refused, which is kind of my little thing for nonviolent resistance, even as a teenager. extrovert to become very closed off to most of the rest of the world when I would get home from

school, for example, and just go online and talk to one person where it's like, it was almost like my relief was when I would get home from school every day when we had AOL instant messenger, like, you know, when we had AIM, first off, I didn't have the internet my freshman year of high school. And then so we got the internet after that. I didn't want to talk to people who I went to school with when I was out of school. Like, I almost looked at them in the way that a lot of adults would look at having work friends. And then, you know, like when you aren't around work, you're not talking to your work friends, right? Now, obviously, that's not the case for everyone.

You know, plenty of people have friends from work that they hang out with afterward. But in my case, I wanted to completely dissolve myself of the day, more or less. And I think part of that is when you spend every day trying to be the person other people want you to be while still exploring your identity enough to be different. It can be exhausting and mentally tolling to keep that up every day for four years. Whereas if you go home and you just talk to a friend online, especially someone you've never actually met in person before, what you'll find instead is you can project the image that you want much more clearly, almost through the lens of anonymity, although it wasn't anonymous at all, just in terms of creating your persona in a non-judgmental environment where you're, you don't have all

these other outside pressures affecting you. It's just a one-on-one conversation and whatever you want to bring up in the day isn't going to have another person contradicting or inserting their point of view into. And I think that the experience that I had in high school was definitely one where, you know, I could go from niche group to niche group to niche group without ever really having a home in one group, per se. That also meant it's kind of what happens when you become the jack of all trades, right? Where you never really master one thing. But you know, you're okay at a lot of little things. And so that's kind of how I would go from friend group to friend group without ever being like the most popular person within that group, right?

You mentioned it was a very angsty experience for you and that part of what you were escaping was judgment. When you would go on AIM and talk to these other friends who you chose to be in conversation with in an intimate way, when you talk about angst and judgment, it occurs to me that that probably is multi-level, right? Because you're A, in the container of a Catholic school, which is very likely teaching things that you're like internally, they're landing in your heart as they're literally teaching me that something's wrong with me. Oh, the classic example I used in the book was like,

I had to fill out on a test. God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, right? That was in 10th grade. I remember that clear as day. Yeah. And it's just like, this is messed this is who I am. This is really how I'm identifying, but I can't actually present that way. I'm so curious now, actually, because you're sharing how you're on the one hand, an extrovert, meaning like as a general, you're energized by being around people. You love that experience. But at the same time, you're in this experience where you feel like the you that is truly you can't show up and be accepted and be welcomed and be embraced. But you have this social wiring that is nourishing when you're around people who see you as you and who embrace you as you and who you don't have to hide from. That had to be such a tough dynamic.

So that actually really came to fruition in my 20s when I started playing in bands, especially where I didn't feel that it was safe and that I would be accepted to be an embraced, frankly, to be the woman who I am, that being loud, jackass center of attention, running a metal band, you know, on stage being the life of the party, that was somehow much more acceptable as long as he did it while presenting as male, which is just like, that's social commentary in and of itself. But it's one that I very much was susceptible to of wanting to be like, which was very much something where I would have deep seated feelings of inadequacy. And which, you know, I mean, surprise, you're going for office, right? Hey, I want to be relevant. Like that, right. But I think that

at its most vulnerable, when you are not only wanting to be liked, but you're trying to find people to connect with, you're trying to find a sense of community, knowing fully well that you were never the popular kid, right? That you're always going to be the outsider to some extent, I think that you will find a way to make it work even in a temporary, non entirely authentic setting. So as long as you get that thing that you're looking for in terms of sense of community, but that can also cause a lot of self-destructive behavior as you do it. And that was absolutely my case. Now, I was never an alcoholic, for example, but I was definitely a party drinker. I was a social drinker throughout all my 20s and from the time I was in college,

more or less until I turned 30. And I think what I learned from that experience especially was there is a shelf life on the ways that you will mask your authentic sense of self, that you will keep it at bay as long as different parts of your personality can have that spotlight. But what you find, I will never regret having a sense of community in the metal community just this morning i went out for uh you know well i got my hot chai latte this morning go talk to a friend for a while saw one of my metal friends from you know i always have to say my pre-2017 friends right so one of my pre-2017 friends you know just immediately you know just you know talk shop for a little bit and everything and And it was so funny. I saw him from the side before I saw his face. I was like, hey, look, that guy looks familiar.

And then I said to my friend, I was like, yeah, if you look at him, he's clearly from the underground. He's part of my base. And then he turned around. I was like, oh, my God, it is Jordan. You know, I yell over to him and he comes over. He talks to me for a bit. And I think that sense of community that you have is when you have developed

your personality into someone who genuinely is energized by other people, who gets along with other people and wants to, you know, experience things together with other people, that when you choose to make yourself vulnerable in terms of coming out in my case and having that. I think for a number of trans people, though not universally by any means, it becomes easier for you to come out knowing that you have something else to fall back on that isn't just a very thin veneer of an expression of masculinity as the thing being in common, but you have other commonalities and other interests, where the phrase I would try to use in my very George Carlin sort of way, when I was coming out to people, it's like, Oh, I'm still me, I just want to look and smell better. You know what I mean? Like, I was just like, I thought that was like, you know,

kind of a funny way to, you know, you know, to express things. Obviously, there's a lot more to transition that. And I keep using qualifiers and everything I'm saying right now. But I think the self destructive behavior that I would have in my 20s, in terms of, you know, hardcore partying, where, you know, throwing up or whatever. And, you know, I mentioned in the book, we're in the page on Aprilil 26 uh through viking i described one day in 2009 where i woke up only wearing a pair of damn socks and a jagermeister wristband and that was it and i was just like uh how did i get here right and i had to like start putting all those pieces back together and at age 25 okay you know it's it's still funny and kind of cute at

25 if not like silly story if i I did a 35, you'd be like, what the hell? You know what I mean? Like, you know, like your life is broken at that point. I could also very much see that's not where I wanted my life to go. And I knew that while it was fun to a degree to have, you know, just like that style of letting loose or like the day before I graduated college in 2006. One of the friars ended up saying like, you know, just like that style of letting loose or like the day before I graduated college in 2006, one of the friars ended up saying like, you know, we're known as a party school because we celebrate life on this campus. Just like, yeah, that's, I always saw going to heavy metal shows as very much that celebration of being alive with other people and the loudest, most intense

way possible, which, you know, very often also, you know, involved alcohol because alcohol to me was a great uniter that would bring people together for common cause. Let's have a drink together and lower inhibitions together. And funny enough, the more I drank, the more my feminine expression would very much come out. And I would start getting very flamboyant to the point where it was just like almost to like the point of absurdity in a way, but it was also very much realizing was how much I had been repressing and repressing and repressing. And that when that filter went down, and the expressions that I would have in the way that I would talk and communicate and do things

was very much just like that part of me just kind of flooding out. And it hadn't been honed, it hadn't been developed in a way where it was necessarily just a day to day part of my existence. And so when it did come out, it was like, I'm not sure how it's supposed to be. I just know it's not what I've been doing. So let's put everything out there and be very flamboyant with hand motions and the way that I speak and the way that we're doing things and start hugging people and start braiding hair with other people and start getting into really super queer conversations, which is very strange for a straight guy. And hey, by the way, I see

that you do your eyebrows really clean. That's kind of weird for a straight guy too. And also like I would throw all this stuff out there. And then it's like almost like pause, right? You're like, why? And part of it was wanting to make people laugh. Part of it was wanting to express to women in particular, I'm not a threat. It's okay to be yourself around me. Even if I'm struggling to be myself around everyone else. I want you to feel safe around me the same way that you feel safe around other women. That was very important for me to communicate, even when I was inebriated, you know, and here I am now at 37. And I want everyone to feel safe around me. I want people to know that if they want to be vulnerable enough to be visible, that it's okay when you're with me because I accept you for who you are, not for who you think you're supposed to be. Yeah. Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or

sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun.

On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight risk.

I'm so curious also because, I mean, you've referenced the metal community for a bunch now. And from the outside looking in, you know, I would imagine there are a lot of assumptions about what the metal community. And when we're saying metal, we're talking about heavy metal music, melodic heavy metal. For those who are confused, it's not metal the object. Sometimes it depends. We like wearing metal and metal right right exactly came from somewhere it's very simple metal is heavier than rock that's all right yeah um i was just thinking like the first time i actually saw that like the original animated like heavy metal i think it was 81 or 82 and i was like this is an world. But you dive headlong into that world at a pretty early age. At 14, yeah.

Right. Which is fairly young. So for you, I guess my curiosity is you at 14 saying, yeah, I'm all in on this. I'm listening to it. I'm going to shows. I'm talking about it. I'm writing about it. I'm 100% a part of the culture. Does the way that you step into that community, but also does the job that heavy metal has in your life change over time? Yeah. So if you look at how I wrote about it in the book, for example, I very much talk about learning and embracing the culture at 14, right? And very much still feeling like an outsider to it when i go to my

first concert and i see people who are doing who are way more hardcore than my little catholic school self was at all and i very much mentioned a cradle of filth t-shirt in particular that had something written on the back that's very very naughty and i was like you're like seeing that it was very shocking right and seeing people smoke pot out in the open and to this day like all i ever did was drink i never smoked anything not even cigarettes because you know i decided very early in my life that i was going to pick one poison and be good at it which was drinking right and now i don't even do that now i have kombucha that's my uh trace alcohol right most northern virginia liberal white woman only possible like a little of my kombucha

so i think it's kind of funny that my introduction to the culture was really based on just talking to you know some guys in the back of the room in my social studies class my western civ class in my freshman year of high school and i knew i liked metal when i was in uh middle school but it was what was accessible via radio right like black sabbath metallica and really it's like mid-90s metallica i had no idea that their entire 80s catalog you know kill them all and ride lightning and master puppets and justice for all even the garage days revisited uh ep in 87 had no idea those things even existed as far as i knew old metallica was the black album new metallica was the load reload era i had no idea uh beyond that i didn't own many black t-shirts the first

time i bought a you know a band t-shirt was my black savage shirt that i actually wore to osfis 99 because i was that kid who was a the shirt of the band that kid is there to see and it was very much a learning about it and adjusting to it. And I remember to this day, the first band I ever saw, I got to Auschwitz late in 99 because it was a school day. So I couldn't get there until afterward. It was a Fear Factory was headlining the side stage. And like Burton C. Bell, their singer, was telling people to flip over cop cars in the parking lot and stuff. Right. And I was just like, whoa, what the hell?

It was like, that's that's intense. Wow. And the way he was singing, like in the guitar player, because Casares was playing, they would get so red-faced with veins bulging as they were doing it. And I look into the crowd from the top of the hill down, and at the bottom there's just this giant sea of dust and dirt, right? And this one person was crowd surfing and bent into a backwards V where it was like their ankles were up,

touched her head and stuff. I was like, that's too intense for me, right? And so fast forward many, many years, where I have now been like, so exposed to every form of, you know, metal and every venue of consuming the live version of it and travel the world seeing it, you know, metal and every venue of consuming the live version of it and travel the world seeing it, you know, not the world, but, you know, Europe and North America seeing it. And I've understood that there are definitely cultural differences in terms of how metal is presented and exposed and everything. I also understand the universality of heavy metal and that when you go to a festival in Germany, you can make a lot of friends really quickly if you've got a bottle of Jägermeister

and you know some municipal waste lyrics, which you very much used to do. And I think in terms of the job, in terms of how it informs me now, what's different is when I was that teenager really getting into it and it's all I want to be around, I could be very judgmental toward other people for liking different types of music because it wasn't good enough, right? getting into it and it's all I want to be around, I could be very judgmental toward other people for

liking different types of music because it wasn't good enough. Right. And now at 37, I look at other people and be like, look, the fact that you have found music in your life, whatever genre or subgenre it is, and it's resonated with you. Great. I'm just glad, you know, you've got something that you really feel passionate and care about, you know, and as I'm talking to, you know, you've got something that you really feel passionate and care about, you know, and as I'm talking to you right now, I'm still wearing my Moonspell hoodie, you know, like my Portuguese Gothic new metal band. And this album 1755 is entirely in Portuguese, by the way. I do not speak Portuguese. And yet I love that. Oh, I look at when I when I see other people from my community, from the underground heavy metal community, I get to have a connection with them that's very special in that regard, if we can,

you know, just nerd out on music all we want. But when I talk to other people, I'm no longer judgmental about what it is that they like in terms of their music. It's much more an appreciation of the fact that, hey, at least something resonates with them. And I think it's's much more an appreciation of the fact that at least something resonates with them. And I think it's a much more adult way of looking at things as opposed to what I think I saw it as, which was anything that's not what I liked is a threat to what I like. And I think if you will bring that into politics, that is a thing that is very prevalent in our society in terms of if you aren't from this, if I don't understand your experience, then whatever it is that you have is threatening toward me. And that is dangerous. think that's the sort of thing that has created such a deep chasm in terms of people being able to reconcile different ideologies in order to even have friends who believe different things

from themselves anymore. That's very difficult because I don't see that getting better. I see that very much getting worse as we are watching hyper intense polarization happening because that is what generates not only outrage, but it generates attention, it generates clicks, it generates views, which means that it generates profit and revenue. And that as long as it's profitable for people to divide people more so than it is to bring them together,

then, or they're bringing them together, it's around being against someone as opposed to being for, you know, everyone, that's dangerous. And I like to think that the way I view music is similar in that regard to how I view politics, where I do very much see ideologies that are set up to prevent people from having civil rights as inherently being threatening. And at the same time, I will still talk to those folks. I will still have conversations with them, even when I so vehemently disagree with something that they else they believe in, because in Richmond, that's what you have to do. You have to form coalitions with people who you don't always agree with. Otherwise, your bills won't pass. Otherwise, you're not going to get stuff done.

Yeah. I mean, I would imagine also it's interesting in that even within any particular, let's say, music-focused community, whether it's metal, whether it's indie rock, whether it's whatever it is, that there are going to be a wide swath of people who love the music and love so much about the culture of the music, but have beliefs outside of that that are profoundly different from each other. And it's that shared thing that allows them to communicate. Oh, different subgenres of metal attract different political ideologies. Absolutely true. Yeah. But the shared love, I wonder if that serves to a certain extent as a bridge. Like there's one point extent as a bridge. There's one place where we can

actually connect. Yes. So that bridge does exist. And I will tell you that when I was in Cabaret, for example, when I was at Cabaret Home, my former band, all of us had different political ideologies. All of us did. And which I also mentioned in the book, because we had a rule at one point in the band that if you talked about politics for more than five seconds, you had to take a shot of old granddad. Old granddad tastes exactly as it sounds for those of you out in the ether wondering, don't, don't, don't do that. It's not a delightful drink, unless, you know, like, although I will tell you, though, it's so funny i remember when i was in my 20s my cousin was over at my house and my grandfather was that we were out on the porch together and so like we both were trying to like cowboy face the like some old granddad and so he threw back these shots from like ah you know everything but grandfather takes a sip of it he's like oh that's mellow like ultimate cowboy face it right and it was just like oh wow yeah so it was really really funny

watching someone in their 80s put it everyone's a shame that's pretty funny so that's interesting within the band like even within this group of i guess it was five people yeah i was like you know it started out as four and then went to five yeah and we had a number of like lineup changes over the years but yeah very much so right and then you have different ideologies, even in this most immediate group. So when you get to a point where you're in your late twenties and you're starting to, you're also really starting to grapple with your gender identity and you're deciding, okay, I'm reaching a point where I think you were on 28 years old when you write about it.

You're like, okay, so I'm pushing up against 30 now. I don't want to live the next decade of my life is the way you describe it in the book, as the way that I've been living it. I need to present as who I am. And this metal has been, I mean, yes, you have a life outside of metal. You're a journalist and you're doing all these different things and you're building a career. But metal is still a really central part of your life. And the community was a community that was with you since you were 14 years old. When you decide, okay, I need to actually do something to externally start to step into this identity. I'm curious how, and when you actually start to do that, and I guess it

happens, you described right around this time where you're actually back from a tour that you guys did in the UK. And then shortly after that, you immerse yourself in coverage of an election and then it's like, okay, it's time. But then when you go back to the band and then it's time to go back to a festival, it had to have been, I'm curious what's going through your mind and your heart at that point,

because it's not just you saying, okay, it's time for me to step out and present as who I've always known myself to be. But also like, how is this community that I'm so deeply connected with and have been for such a big part of my life going to receive me? Yep. In terms of that community, when I actually not only transitioned, but went public with

my transition a year to the day when I was on HRT. So this was starting HRT December 3rd, 2013. And so exactly one year later in 2014, HRT being hormone replacement therapy. When I came out to all my metal friends, just like kind of like in a big Facebook life event sort of thing, I didn't lose a single friend over my transition. What had held me back for so long was I knew the women in my life were going to be just fine with it. I didn't think that my guy friends were going to embrace me or they were going to think that I was somehow, you know, threatening them

or coming on to them or anything like that. I thought it was going to damage the structure of relationships, whereas in fact, it didn't. And I think also, by that time where I didn't care about physical horseplay anymore, you know, just like, you know, like, you know, messing around with people or it's like, no, I promise this isn't sexual at all. This was like, you know, literally just let's be a big jackasses. That became less important when I turned 30. Right. And so I think part of what happened is that I was willing to accept whatever risk that was associated with coming out, because what were the downsides at that point, and it was much more difficult for my extended family, my extended family of birth than it very much was for a lot of my friends, I think, in kind of a weird way.

I also think for a number of friends, it's almost like, oh, I now have a trans friend. Okay, that's cool. I get I get to I get to say that now. And what I ended up finding out is once I came out, I started having a lot of other people I know, either come out to me, or they would ask me about their relatives or their friends who had come out to them and needing advice about them. What I didn't think about and didn't anticipate ahead of time was what a release valve my own coming out would be for other people, because then it gave them someone else to ask questions about or to confide in. And I started having a number of people who, whether I suspected it or not, started telling me about their gender diversion, their different sexual orientations, or the people in their lives who fit that one way or the other. Or they would say, hey, I have a question or I have a concern or I'm worried or whatever about someone else.

That became important. And some people started revealing severe trauma to me as well, of things that they had confided in and very much buried, because they felt that I was safe. And to me, being trusted, and knowing that it's safe to talk to me is something I value so much. And I think that's part of my extroversion in a way of if you want people to like you and you like being around other people, it's they got to trust you at the end of the day, right? I think anyone who understands what it's like to burn a bridge and have people who have lingering resentment toward you or you have lingering resentment toward them would very much understand in that regard of not wanting to have that feeling over and over again, which is, you know, part of life. It's just, you know, it's what people have. But I think that you very much want to have a connection that is deep and beyond surface level. And the way to do that, the phrase I love using is being vulnerable enough to be visible. Yeah. Which is such a powerful, I mean,

for you to, I mean, for you to, I mean, you made this decision because it's what you need to do for yourself and then to actually see how people around you respond to you. And then you end up being seen as somebody who is a go-to person where like people can open their hearts and their truths too, which had to have been like,

you know, on the one hand, like incredible. I would imagine also it took some adjusting, because that wasn't why you decided to come out. This was just something that was happening on the side. And at the same time, you're grappling with your own stepping into life as presenting the way that you know you've always been. But there's a lot to deal with there. There's a lot to grapple with. And then other people now want to share their stories with you. And I'm wondering whether there is almost like a boundary issue that comes up. Because on the one hand, you want to be open.

You want to be friendly. You want to be supportive. But you also need the space to figure this out in your own life, your own context. Yeah. So the other thing is there are wanting to be out, wanting to be open, wanting to confide in people and have people confide in you all of that is predicated on people acting in good faith all of it and you then come across especially in politics people who are quite literally paid to act in bad faith to be opposition researchers and such right and to exploit your weaknesses and make you out to be

the worst person possible as long as it gains votes for their client. Or maybe even the candidate themselves actually are the ones doing it. So I think that what you find in politics that can keep a lot of politicians from being as forthright and authentic and honest with people as they would want to be and what the public would hope for them to be is the fear of being attacked, the fear of the fallout of bad things from their past or about who they are. Would the public, would their voters still support them if they knew who they really were? Right. public, would their voters still support them if they knew who they really were? Right? I think that's really one of the fundamental questions about why do we have such, you know, the inherent dishonesty in politics, in the most absurd way. It's if people really knew who I was, they might not vote for me. So I will be not myself to all these people and hope that that will be just fine.

And it's what they're looking for. And then from that, you get all the standard cookie cutter crap that you see of what I hate is the B-roll shots of my God, like my team knows my loathe of a bunch of people sitting around a table holding empty coffee mugs with plastic smiles on. And I've done that photo shoot. I hated it. Hated it because it's so phony. It's so cheesy. It's like, yeah, but it makes you soft and relatable and everything else. Like it's staged. It is clearly staged. There's nothing candid about this whatsoever. I hate doing that crap. And at the same time, it's you know, like, you've also when you're dealing with your teams and stuff, you got to know

what, you know, what is your demarcation line? How far are you willing to, you know, go to just get people to leave you alone in some cases. So I think as long as there are bad actors who want to exploit your weaknesses in terms of your personality and your personal characteristics, as opposed to keeping differences policy-based, then you will have people who up a front to get people to accept the version of themselves that they think they want, that the public wants from them. And the challenge that I'm issuing to people via my book, you know, the purpose of the entire title of Burn the Page is to take those pre ascribed narratives about who you are, who they get you to be, and for you to actually be authentic. And I think to own your narrative, to put your own stuff out there first is the most disarming thing that you can do in politics. And I was under the national microscope my entire first campaign. I was, of course, afraid of what was going to happen. I

didn't know how things were going to go. And at the same i also realized from the 2016 campaign when donald trump was bragging about sexually assaulting women it's like well have you ever done that no did you ever say that you could take someone out into fifth avenue shoot him and not lose anything and then he still wins an election because of the electoral college as opposed to popular vote i'm like well i haven't killed anyone and haven't been sexually assaulting. So I guess I'm qualified. Right. So it's like if that's the demarcation line of, you know, like what counts as good behavior in politics, then what the hell else am I afraid of in my backstory at that point? Yeah.

I mean, it's interesting because you literally go out and you're like, OK, so let's let's I know from what I can remember. I know what I've done in the past. I know like what I've been a part of in the past and I know how it can be spun, but let me literally hire, you know, like a team of people who would be hired by people who would want to potentially like go against me to do the same thing. And that's very standard. That's very standard in a campaign is you do your own self oppo as well as oppoing your, especially when you're a first time candidate. And so we did that in my first two campaigns we didn't have a need to do that in my third campaign it was just right there's like what have i done in the last two years it's anything different

than before it's like no we're good just save our money you know do the oppo on the new candidate and you know then and really just try to figure out where the holes that, what's missing. And so we didn't have a need to go with personal attacks, especially in a third campaign, there was no point in it. It was just like, no, we have the deaf policy differences to be able to win this campaign, we'll be just fine. Yeah, and I would imagine also like in no small part, part of that comes from like boots on the ground,

you as a reporter, as a journalist for a chunk of year, just going out there and talking to thousands and thousands of people and interviewing a lot of people and realizing, okay, at the end of the day, do they really care what my gender identity is or do they care what I can potentially do for the way that they're going to live their lives on a daily basis? So the phrase that I always use is when you're stuck in traffic on Route 28, no one cares about the gender identity. The person who has the best idea to fix it, they just care that it gets fixed.

Right. Yeah. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push.

Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman.

I knew you were going to be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot?

Flight risk. I have to imagine that your time actually being on the other side of the pen and the keyboard and the microphone really drilled that home and was a powerful part of the way that you decided to step into the world of politics. Just very much so. Yes. Yeah. So when you're in that world, right? And you get elected, you're like, all right, I'm making the change. I am absolutely not changing who I am. And I'm presenting myself to the world as I am because I've worked too hard to get here. And you'd make this call and say, take me or leave me. I'm going to talk to the issues. And if you want to talk about my identity, that's a part of who I am, but let's talk about what I can do for you.

Then when you actually get into office and you have this really interesting opportunity presented, I think where on the one hand, you're representing your local constituents, what's happening in their neighborhood with their traffic light, like on any given day, a moment in time. But you also have a national spotlight now where the national spotlight is at least in part focused, not just on the issues, but on who you are and what you represent to a broader population. I'm curious whether just the way that you experienced that personally changes in the way that you feel you want to, like you get there because you want to represent your local constituents, but once you're there, does that change because of the brightness of the spotlight that is now on bigger issues? No.

Here's a classic example of why it's not. When I was invited to be Demi Lovato's AMA date, you know, right? 2017. And I knew that the interviewers had no interest in actually talking to me. Like when I was doing the two interviews, I was simply standing there with a microphone and they felt it necessary to ask me questions. At that point, I was like, okay, sure. I've got a national, to some extent, worldwide audience right now

of tens of millions of people. And I also know a lot of people at Haymarket, Gainesville, Manassas, Manassas Park are watching this. So I'm going to talk about Route 28 and fighting Dominion transmission lines. That's exactly what I did for the Red Carpet. And then I'll paraphrase it. One of our local newspapers inside Dover, they have a headline afterward. It was just like, Rome goes on AMAs with Demi Lovato, semi-colon talks for Route 28 on Red Carpet.

And I was just like, yes, best headline I could possibly get out of this. And one of the other delegate elects at the time turned to, when seeing me on the red carpet, he goes, Danica Zod, I bet she's going to talk about Route 28 10 seconds later. To me, it's always about how do I get to use my national platform to highlight local issues that I want to, you know, to highlight, you know, because I think also, though, what's the national interest, you know, things happening here in, you know, Western Prince William County and Manassas Park? Well, to me, I think that greater interest is it's a microcosm of America. And the issues that we deal with here certainly can resonate across the country in different areas. And I think that the stories that we share here an hour outside of DC is not foreign to people living in the Midwest or West Coast or, you know, the Rocky Mountains in your case, I think there's a lot of common humanity. And there's the human interest of just learning about a different place and

saying, hey, that sounds familiar to something that I'm going through. And as I do all of that, I am also recognizing that while my top priority and responsibility is to represent the 101,000 people of the 13th district. I also recognize that in a way I am an ambassador for trans people, whether or not it is fair and whether or not it is right, because I will never, you know, trans people are not a monolith. I will never know the lived experience of a trans woman who speaks English as a second language, who's immigrated to this country, who's a person of color, for example, I will never have the life expectancy issue of a black trans woman living in Baltimore versus a white trans woman living in the burbs outside of, you know,

DC where so many trans people have problems finding any employment, which is why they turn to survival work in the first place. Whereas I've got three jobs between, you know, legislating between being the executive director of Emerge Virginia, where my job is to recruit and train Democratic women to run for office. And my third job, which is promoting this book, right? remember to stay grounded, never lose who I was and draw on those experiences and never think of myself as better than or other than any other person who I do or even don't represent. So as long as it's done in a conversational way, where it's not based on aloofness, even if we're talking about being Demi Lovato's AMA date is weird. And I very much talked about that in the book of like how I felt like a fish out of water until Demi actually walked into the hotel room and we got to meet each other. And I felt much more calm in that moment. And then you know what I did? Like that night, I got back on a red eye

flight overnight flight from LAX back to BWI, got home to Prince William County and drove to the legislative agenda breakfast that the Prince William School Board was having at 7.30 the next morning, right? And Senator Jeremy Pike took a picture of me being like, fresh back from LA, here's Delegate Electrum, who hasn hasn't missed anything and I was bleary-eyed tired and be like I'm still here to do my job still here to take care of kids still here to take care of teachers still here to you know hear about what the concerns are from the community and it's having that balance that's how I think you balance having the national profile with local responsibilities because having a national profile doesn't mean you have to be aloof and it doesn't

mean that you have to think of yourself as other than but and i'll tell you being a delegate especially your state delegate i give out my personal cell phone number to thousands of people routinely at the door i just i write it down a piece of paper and give it out all the time why i was like i was a reporter for more than 10 years i can handle crazy like if someone tries to come back to me that's what what are they going to say that I haven't heard already? Please. Are you kidding?

Are you a community newspaper reporter? I've heard everything. So it was like, yeah, yeah, I'm not afraid of that. But, but at the same time, I think in doing so, when I do get those phone calls and, you know, from constituents were like, Hey, a couple of years ago, you stopped by and now I have a question or whatever. That is very grounding. And it's the thing I love doing. It's so funny. Just yesterday, I was watching a video of one of my favorite singers, Floor Jansen. There's kind of a comedic twist to this. So she's the singer of the band Nightwish.

And when she took over as front woman for nightwish in 2013 at wachen open air in germany i was there and uh she performed uh the song ghost love score with nightwish and it's one of the most electrifying performances in heavy metal history to this day of like all-time heavy metal great performances when she hits that high g sharp it is so unbelievably jaw-dropping of what happens in that moment and just the crowd erupts in a way that's just like we all knew we've witnessed a special moment in that case right and so she did a reaction video to watching herself do that because of all these other reaction videos she's like night wish that you react to gooselift score live which i thought i saw the humor that i got you know the point but

what i loved in seeing that video is she's watching herself perform just very almost like methodically and very almost like disattached almost like doctor looking at patient style and then she's the the camera turns to the group of young women in the front row singing along. And that's where she flashes this grin. And you see her smile go out. And you realize very quickly for whatever she got paid for that night, whatever it did for her career or whatever, she saw people connecting with her, singing the same song, singing the same lyrics as her and having an emotional experience along with her. That supersedes all the other things that go into that. And that for her felt so special.

I know what that feeling is like in a much smaller sense. I wasn't performing for 80,000 people, but playing clubs and having people sing back my own words to me, amazing. And I still view that other people having that connection with me is so much more important than anything regarding fame or television time or, you know, being invited to do interviews, even like this. It's sharing that moment with other people and sharing a very human experience with people, regardless of whether you know them, that breaks down the barrier in her case between musician and fan to just human and human having a human experience. And it's the same way for

politician and constituent to then become two people sharing a moment. And I think that is so rewarding in and of itself is just knowing that you've done something that positively affects someone's life. Like we've now passed 32 of my bills, you know, in my three terms. And one of those bills, we're still waiting for the governor to sign by next week. That bill is designed for us to ensure that people in the limb loss community have access to, you know, health insurers covering state of the art prosthetic devices that more or less functionally replace an arm or a leg to as much as possible. I don't put that in because I'm getting thousands of dollars from the limb loss community or something. It's like, that money doesn't exist.

That's not a thing. Instead, it's more like I'm doing it because it's the right thing to do. And my God, the day I see someone with a B-Bionic 3 saying like, hey, I got this arm or I got this leg because delegate room, this billet you put in, but then I've done my job. You know what I mean? End of the day, that's what it comes down to. And that feels like a good place for us to come full circle in our conversation. So sitting in this container of good life project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? If you offer the phrase to live a good life, what comes up for me personally is, oh man, if I'm being super real about it, I miss being on

stage so much with my band. I really do. I don't miss the work that goes into it at all. I don't miss a lot of other stuff, but what I do miss is live performing. That to me is a good life of being on the road and just getting to do all that sort of stuff but in the role of my life now is at 37 the good life at this point is not only being the best politician the best you know for state representative that can be for you know people i represent but really having a good balance of work getting to make my partner partner laugh, you know, like, you know, we see each other, you know, taking kiddo to school in the morning, or my stepdaughter, especially as like my partner, my stepdaughter, we don't live in the same place, right. And so, you know, I've got to split my time between where I live here in Manassas and where they are.

And, you know, just finding that balance, being able to achieve that balance, being able to express myself for who I am without reservation, and at the same time, doing a lot of good things for a lot of people. That to me is a good life, you know, making sure that my constituents are taken care of, and that they can trust me to take care of them, not based on theory, but based on evidence. I think that is the best life I can live. Thank you. Yeah. And I would close that with a quote from St. Francis de Sales of be who you are and be that well. Beautiful. I love the way you wrapped with that. Thanks so much for listening. And hey, if you love this conversation, safe bet

you'll also love the conversation that we had with Jeffrey Marsh about really living into your own sense of identity unapologetically. You'll find a link in the show notes. And of course, if you haven't already done so, go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app. And if you appreciate the work that we've been doing here on Good Life Project, go check out my new book, Spark. It'll reveal some incredibly eye-opening things about maybe one of your favorite subjects, you, and then show you how to tap these insights to reimagine and reinvent work as a source of meaning, purpose, and joy. You'll find a link in the show notes, or you can also find it at your favorite bookseller

now. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power.

Peloton. Visit Peloton. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch,

getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised.

The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him! We need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk.