Good Life Project - The Power of Other Voices | Rosanna Durruthy

Episode Date: April 23, 2019

Growing up between New York City’s South Bronx and Queens in the 1970s, Rosanna Durruthy's (https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmdurruthy/) family and home were often the place where everyone gathered, people from all walks of life had a place at the table. Now, the Head of Global Diversity, Inclusion and Belonging at LinkedIn, Durruthy works to bring all voices to the table and empower people with a sense of value, inclusion, equality and belonging. This conversation isn't just about work, though, it's about the power of being open, finding your own voice and power, valuing others and creating a sense of welcoming, compassion and understanding in our lives in the name of making it a richer place to be being a catalyst for change.-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So growing up in the 70s between New York City's South Bronx, which was kind of a time when buildings were often abandoned or burned to the ground, and Queens, which was then kind of the epicenter of emerging music, especially the whole hip-hop scene, my guest today, Rosanna DeRuthie, pretty much saw it all and drank it in. Her family and her home were often the place where everyone gathered, where people from all walks of life had a place at the table. And that impression never left her. At an early age, she was also a bit of a precocious kid. She had a very special quest, and that was to go to Harvard. She would eventually do just that. But weeks after beginning,

she'd find herself having to withdraw due to family circumstances, never to return. Still, that did absolutely nothing to slow her down. In the intervening years, she has built a stunning career as a leader in diversity at giant corporations like Sigma and Seagram and Merrill Lynch, now the head of global diversity,

inclusion, and belonging at LinkedIn. And we kind of deconstruct that title too, because it requires a lot of examination. She works to bring voices to the table and empower people kind of with a sense of value and inclusion and equality and belonging. And we are going to keep coming back to that word belonging. But while the conversation touches on the role of diversity and inclusion at work, what we really go deep into is the power of being open, the power of finding your own voice, your own power of valuing others in their contribution to your life, your work, your ability to do what you're here to do and creating a sense of wonder and welcoming and compassion and understanding in our lives in the name of making it a richer place to be a catalyst for change.

So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. We'll be right back. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes.

The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. I grew up in Queens. I kind of grew up throughout the boroughs with the exception of Brooklyn and Staten Island. But my father had his medical practice in the South Bronx. And I was a commuter kid because my father had his practice there and my mom worked with him. Her aunt lived in the South Bronx. And so by day, I'd go to school in the South Bronx and her aunt would pick me up after school. And so I think my early orientation began in the South Bronx in the 1970s.

And then as I reached middle school, I went to middle school in Flushing, Queens, which is really where I grew up, middle school and high school in Flushing. And then my career brought me into Manhattan. Right, right. And so it was no longer just going to the city for theater or events. It was now going into the city to work and having that be a part of my day-to-day and very much a part of my social existence. Yeah. And so the South Bronx in the 70s also, interesting time to be there. Time when the Bronx was burning. Yeah. I mean, I think we're around the same age, I'm 50, 30. And I remember as a kid sort of driving through the area and just seeing

so many buildings boarded up. Exactly. And it was sort of like, and I remember asking my folks, I'm like, what's kind of like, even as a really young child, I was like, well, what's up with this neighborhood? Yeah, it was a time when the Bronx was burning and I was really fortunate. The elementary school I went to is a pretty new school for the time, and the teachers were all very young. In fact, I've kept in touch with several of my former elementary school teachers, a couple of them, and learned that the male teachers we had had actually decided to go into teaching to avoid the Vietnam War. Ah, no kidding. And they were 24, 25 years old, taught me how to eat with chopsticks, organized field trips and take us to Chinatown and take us out of the urban environment to places like Shaker Village to get a sense of a rural environment that was simple without technology for that period of time in the 70s. And, you know, it wasn't unusual for my teachers to come out and find their cars were on bricks because their tires had been stolen or their batteries were stolen. So yeah, it was a very different time. Yeah. And then Queens also, I mean, around that time,

like Hollis and different areas in Queens. I mean, late 70s, that was also, I mean, that was where hip hop began. That was like the scene in Queens in late 70s and even early 80s was. I mean, it was all driven by just creativity and music and honesty to a certain extent. Very much. And I think about these inflection points. And so much of my life seems to be, you know, carried through the current of certain inflection points. So Queens started changing. Certainly northeastern Queens became an environment where we saw a real shift in the demographics even

to become more oriented around the Asian populations, Chinese and Korean flushing area. And I've always said what was neat about growing up in Queens was that there was a real sense of people being people. You could tell your friends, meet me on main street under the clock. And there was a clock right on main street. And we're probably the only main street in New York city.

So there was something about it that was very organic. And I think that was something that inspired creativity, particularly for us outer borough crowd. You almost had to create your own forms of entertainment if you couldn't get into Manhattan. Because in this environment where success was often dimensioned on city life in Manhattan, you had to create your own definition for success as well.

Yeah, I completely see that. It sounds like you were also a pretty precocious kid. I was, entirely. I grew up surrounded in conversations about the world. So my father is a doctor, was a doctor. My mom worked with him. And we had one room in the house that was known as the library. And I'd walk in and there were all these books, everything from his medical journals that I would sit and read.

My friends would come play and after a while I'd leave them playing with my stuff and I'd go read. As a kid? As a kid. You know, so whether it was reading the works of Sigmund Freud or reading the Journal of American Medical Association, JAMA, or just reading Greek mythology, my world has always consisted of reading. And even today, i still love to read all the time it's changed a little bit now i use audible or blinkist as a way of getting through all that's available in terms of content but yeah and as a result my conversations were always perhaps more natural with adults than with kids you know um enjoyed that. My parents' parties, their dinner parties, I spent more time

hanging out with the grownups than I did playing with the kids downstairs in the basement. Tell me about your parents' dinner parties. It sounds like it was a social household too. You know, my mom's a great human being, but she loved creating an environment where people could come and connect and talk. So, you know, I remember whether it was their parties or even my parties as I grew up, our house became the place where we kind of entertained everyone. It was the center of the worlds that met. So whether it was professionals who were in the medical field, my teachers being invited to parties or the next door neighbors and people from the medical field, my teachers being invited to parties, or the next door neighbors and people from the South Bronx. It was always an interesting intersection and mix

of people. And I think it helped fuel my own curiosity about people coming from different places and spaces. And in those convenings, it made me very comfortable interacting with people who were different from me, as well as being curious about the journeys of others. So as a teenager, it wasn't unusual for my friends to conjure up an idea of having a party, and the natural choice would be to host that party at my house. And we'd all collectively go to my mom and make a request, and she'd say, okay. And then she would end up being the shuttle service at the end of the night, driving everyone home as well. And even as an adult, I still do that. I'm fortunate my wife likes to entertain. So we host these convenings and people naturally come together and create new conversations. And I love that. I'm inspired by new conversations and new ideas

and new thoughts and people having fun. And I think we yearn for that right now. I have this sense that we were so deep down the technology rabbit hole. And like, I'm not a Luddite, neither are you. Like, we're both immersed in technology and business and life. And there's great goodness to it.

And yet at the same time, you know, fundamentally, it's like the human condition requires us at some point to be around the table with people. Well, you know, it's interesting to go to restaurants and see families and couples sitting across from each other, texting each other or texting others or reading off of their phones. And you're right. There's something that is unique about the convening and engaging in a party where people come together, they might only see each other once a year. We've been living in Fort Lauderdale in recent years, and we stay in touch with our friends. But there are things that they already know us for as well, which is when we come together and we're in town, we're going to have a party of some sort. And, you know, the overflow means kids are running around the house and it means adults are, you know, in groups of four or five or twos and twos having these conversations about whatever fuels their fancy. And it may be the education system or politics or it may be about music and entertainment or how to raise your kids.

But all of these conversations just kind of come together. And for me, that's, you know, it's, I crave that and I need that. And I like the idea of people who come from different areas of work, whether it's the arts, whether it's technology, whether it's the world of business and different regions. And we sometimes don't see that. People grow up in certain environments. And in the work that I do around social networks, I'm curious as to how people actually intentionally disrupt the natural order of their relationships. You can go to school and have careers and share these lives, not only with people who are much like yourself, but as we grow older, I think we sometimes get lazier as well. And so

we tend to look for the comfort of people who think the way we do and people who respond to the same stimulus we respond to. And as a result, to your earlier point, we don't prove to be more tolerant and resilient to difference. On the contrary, we kind of avoid the discomfort of a different idea or a different way of thinking or a different way of living. Yeah, so agree. It's interesting, you know, being a New Yorker, both of us being New Yorkers, that I think sometimes it's easy to forget that, you know, we walk outside on the street and on any given block in any given neighborhood, you'll walk, you'll bump into, you'll have conversations with any number of people from any number of walks of life.

Even within a building. A building is a living ecosystem in New York City. And I think sometimes we take that for granted. At least I do. You know, I kind of forget that we are not actually a microcosm of the country and the world. We're this kind of bizarre, strange, you know, the classic thing about, you know, the Big Apple, the melting pot, and that there's something really special about an environment like this. I couldn't appreciate that until I moved away from New York in the late 90s.

And I moved to Fort Lauderdale first to join a company that no longer exists called Blockbuster. And shortly after I arrived, learned that the company was planning to relocate its corporate headquarters to Dallas, Texas. So being a native New Yorker, my immediate instinct when I arrived in Dallas, just to get to know the environment was to set out and walk around the city. And I provoked a myriad of curious looks because Dallas is not a pedestrian city. And what I began to see were that the only other people who were out on the sidewalks were typically homeless people in New York City. Subways and bus system, you're accustomed to being around people. And if you want privacy, you would read the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal and you'd master the art of folding those. Like that one way that only New Yorkers know. Exactly. That's your barrier. That's

your wall. But in other cities, there literally is this separation. People don't interact. They're in the privacy of their cars. There are these underground passageways that they would use because the summers would get so hot to go get lunch. And so I'm walking at street level and see no one and nothing. And I thought, is this a soulless city, a soulless environment? And so it was a really interesting experience to recognize that my entire life, I thought the rest of the world was different from New York City. But as I've traveled the world, particularly traveling the United States, I came to realize New York City is different world, particularly traveling the United States, I came to realize

New York City is different from the rest of the United States. So whether you're in Dallas, Texas, or in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, or in LA, or for that matter, in the South Bay area of California, there are more similarities to what we might call middle America than even New York City, because New York is not only a pedestrian place by day, but by night as well. You know, you don't have to worry that after 6 p.m. it's barren because everyone has gone home and businesses shut her up. On the contrary, we come to life anew in a different way. Yeah, completely. It is interesting when we go out, you know, if we travel somewhere, if I'm somewhere for a slightly longer amount of time also, it really sort of like makes you realize, huh, this is not the universe. And like you said, not even the country, you know,

and obviously there's a conversation to be had about the importance of surrounding yourself with people who are not like you. And certainly, you know, in the last couple of years in this country, that conversation, or at least the idea that that conversation is necessary, that there has been a lot of buried separation, buried pain, buried assumptions, the tension and the pain that goes along with that, that's been unaddressed for so long that when you just surround yourself in a tiny pocket of people who look exactly like you, you do yourself a disservice, you do the world a disservice. Nothing works the way it needs to work.

And it's an interesting process to think that, you know, we've often thought of progress as people coming together who have these different perspectives of the world and different views. And maybe that's a liberal way of thinking. Perhaps not. I believe that in order for us to be our best selves, it's important to surround ourselves with differences. And in fact, it's what makes us different that provokes a certain alchemy, the ability to create magic,

the ability to create things that have never existed before. And so I don't see difference or even differences of opinion as problematic. I do grow concerned and frustrated that it seems that we've lost the ability in our civilized society to have conversations that are respectful of these different views and that we seem to derive greater satisfaction from shouting each other down and exercising extreme forms of power, then finding ways to collaborate and create possibility for each other to grant that space. It would be amazing if we learned that at an early age. It would be phenomenal not just in the work that we do in public and in our commercial lives, but in our family lives as well. That ability to sit at a table and have conversations and recognize you may agree to disagree, but it doesn't have to result in a tantrum or a disrespect.

And I think growing up, something that my parents and in particular my mother thought was really important is this ability to see the world and see those differences and be respectful of people's differences, to be respectful of the fact that people come from different perspectives and experiences, and those experiences generate a context that may be uniquely their own. And in the work that I do now, what I recognize is that it's not about being right or wrong. It's about how are we inspired to be our best selves? What do we value? And how do we turn to the power of what we value to create something that is not only valued by others, but something that makes a difference in the world? At least for me, the work that I do by day and the life I try to live is about how do I make a difference for others? Tell me more about that work. Well, for the last almost 30 years, I've been engaged in what's called diversity and

inclusion, and more recently, diversity, inclusion, and belonging. And I think for many of us, when we hear the term diversity, at least here in the United States, often it's thought to be a conversation about demographics, specifically women and people of color. I'm perhaps a little altruistic and I look at diversity as the beauty of differences and how those differences do create new possibilities. Inclusion is about that experience of not only being invited into a space, but having a recognition that being different means that you'll likely have different perspectives and opinions that can be shared and contributed to a conversation,

and that being different still enables you to belong, that people appreciate the ways in which you might have experiences that run counter to theirs. And I think for the last 50 years or so, certainly in an era where we've transitioned from affirmative action and EEO exclusively to these conversations of diversity, inclusion, and belonging, in about not only including people who come from different demographic backgrounds, whether it's women or people of color or people with disabilities or people who may be LGBT. And in many cases, we still have a country where individuals don't have full protections under the law to be themselves.

But it really is such a critical element to be able to bring people into an environment and give them the freedom to be themselves. And the power of that freedom really is expressed, I think, in creativity. It's expressed in innovation. It's expressed in the ability to see what can be created that allows, whether it's your colleague or a consumer or a new business concept to rise and have a market work more effectively, more efficiently. So in some ways, I think this work of diversity, inclusion, and belonging for me has become a very capitalistic view of how do you create an environment that is ongoingly innovative

where people can see themselves and be themselves and contribute their best selves to the work that needs to be done so that we have a healthy society and ecosystems that continue Cuban dad, a Puerto Rican mom, and different cultures present in our life that I expected that's how the world would naturally work. I mean, it's interesting too, because when you share this sort of broader perspective, and then if you go beyond that and you look at the research, you know, across every spectrum of life, whether it's innovation, performance, profitability, better decision-making, or personally, you know, societally, culturally, the outcomes are better when you have more voices in the conversation, and not just more voices, but different voices in the conversation. There's clear data, there's clear research. It's been there for years. And yet that has not been the natural way that we go about our lives or our work.

And you've been in this space for so long. What's your sense of that disconnection and why there's that disconnection? I think the disconnection is still largely about fear. I think people believe it's a zero-sum game in the world. And yet I am inspired by the fact that my son is growing up in a world that's really very different from mine. He will never buy a 45. I think about the collection of 45s and 33s and albums that I still have.

He's growing up in a world where he's building skills off of, you know, his Lego Marvel Super Heroes games on his PlayStation 4 and Nintendo Switch. And, you know, despite my own reservations about having him play these games, I see how strategically he thinks about the world. And yet I think there are many people who still don't see or value that different ways of thinking and different lives and lifestyles

and different approaches to a problem can actually create not just a solution, but potentially a better solution that's more inclusive of everyone involved. I think it's natural that as humans, we often seek conformity and expect that conformity. And yet that's never really been a part of my life. I've always felt not only different, but even recognized within my own family how different I am. And so my natural point of view always seems to point in that direction rather than conformity. But I think for a long time, we were sold the bill of goods that if we just conformed, you know,

go to school, get good grades, get your degree, find a good job, life turns out. And for those who've done that, there's a little bit of resentment out there, that there's uncertainty. And there has been uncertainty in the marketplace, that there's a lack of predictability, that what they may believe was a promise is no longer a promise that can be delivered. And so, you know, there's the benefit of seeing the world through this lens of differences are about how you create the future versus keeping things the same. It's about how you continue to utilize the past to live in the present day. Yeah. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever,

making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised.

The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him.

Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. You used the word fear. Fear of what? And I realize it's probably different depending on where you come from and the world that you see as being the world you want to live in. But what's your sense of that? Yeah, I think the fear, to some extent, it's fear of not realizing the American dream.

At least here in the United States, diversity isn't by any stretch of the imagination exclusive to the United States or unique. There are all forms of differences. And we see this. It's been a generation now. The conversation about globalization was something that we heard a lot about in the late 80s, early 90s. And now we're in a world that's rejecting globalization and in many ways resorting to nationalistic kinds of tendencies. It's a naive approach to dealing with, you know, what lies before us, a world that is being disrupted by technology, a world that's being disrupted by global commerce,

and by the fact that a young person can aspire to build skills and have careers and live in another part of the world. And it's not just a dream, it's actually accessible, you know, that you can have a relationship with someone, you know, in China today and never meet them. And, you know, 40 years ago, that happened if you had a pen pal. Now it happens in a matter of seconds, whether it's an online game or a shared interest in a topic and a connection that you surface off of social media. You mentioned sort of seeing the world differently and fear of not reaching the quote American dream. I wonder if it's sort of underneath that as also we are so wired by the time we're adults to be uncomfortable with the unknown. And that unknown may be another person with another color skin, another sexual orientation, another whatever it may be. enough common, like what we perceive to be as commonality or similarity, that we don't know how to deal with it.

Like if we haven't been brought up around that, we haven't been exposed, we haven't learned to interact with the other, or those we perceive as and label as the other, then it makes us uncomfortable. We're afraid of feeling that feeling that we don't know what to do with. I've been having this conversation with friends, and it shows up in things like we're in an environment, whether it's the company holiday party, for example, and we all gravitate to the people we already know as opposed to walking up to people we've never met and introducing ourselves.

And if we really think about that, you know, we could easily say, well, it's a lack of curiosity. But it's not. It's in many ways this sense that at an early age we were taught to gravitate to that which we know. And in many ways it's a reflection of an environment that has been oriented around what you know makes you better rather than what you can learn. And increasingly, we see companies talking about growth mindset and the importance of continuous learning. And I know in my life, that's been a prominent part of my own personal growth and ability to do the kind of work that I do. Diversity and inclusion wasn't a career when I began college. And I recognize that probably shares more in common with a lot of the

people who go to college today with the expectation of a career that operates in a certain way, only to graduate and find either that job is no longer available or that job is rapidly changing. And so we were taught, you know, just do X, Y, and Z, and the outcomes would be predictable and probably scalable. And, you know, for my generation as a baby boomer, that really isn't the case at all. I mean, we have to, you know, retirement is no longer predictable. The markets certainly aren't predictable. Education has changed. Even how we think about the value of a degree changes because you can't rely upon a degree that was attained, in my case, you know, years back. I don't have my degree. I actually think that's

been advantageous to me because it's made me hunger for the what's next and what's happening and what will happen. And if we teach our children that we will de-emphasize having the right answer, we'll start to prompt this curiosity around what's the possible universe of answers? How do we form new algorithms that serve us in finding the right response as opposed to the right answer. Yeah. And that it's okay to feel an ease along the way, to not know what's coming next, to be with uncertainty and the unknown. It's even okay to get it wrong. And yet we know that what we were taught at a young age, if we go back to the conversations about differences,

we're taught not to make other people uncomfortable and not to be uncomfortable. So we don't ask, we don't point, we don't comment. We just treat everyone the same. And that's almost paradoxical. Our sameness certainly forms a bridge that would enable us to relate to each other. So I would expect as human beings, we should all be able to relate to each other. Our aspirations are different. Our experiences may be different, shaped and defined by our culture, our education, the

regions and places where we've grown up. Even language is important in defining how we view the world and how we express ourselves. But we really have bought into this notion that if we do things a certain way and only that way, it should all work out perfectly. And it's a very exclusive notion because it befits us, but it won't be appropriate for someone who's different from us. Yeah. And I love your offering, too, around sort of us not knowing what to do in certain scenarios.

And so our default very often is just to revert back to what we know or to remain silent rather than get curious. I remember before we actually were airing a podcast, we had a video series. It was the earlier iteration of Good Life Project. And I was sitting down to have a conversation with a woman named Catherine Preston who stuttered her whole life and like beautiful mind, beautiful soul, brilliant, a writer. And during the conversation, you know, I, she was stuttering and we had, there was something that happened right before it. And we had, you know, less time than we thought we were going to have. There was a bit of like a rush before. So the anxiety was amped up in both of us a bit. And about halfway through the conversation, I realized that I didn't know how, what was the quote right or comfortable way to interact with

her in a way that was respectful. And I was getting uncomfortable because as she was working to get thoughts and ideas and words out, my inclination was to just jump in. I knew where she was going and what she, to just jump in and finish the sentence for her. And the thought bubble in my head was, is that massively disrespectful? Do I not know the culture? Is it, am I? And then in the middle of the conversation, I said, well, I can either have this thought bubble in my head and we can have this awkward, stilted conversation. But guaranteed, if I'm thinking this, people are going to be watching this or having the same experience. Why don't I just ask her?

And so in the middle of the conversation, I said, this is what's going on with me now. I said, what's the okay way for me to deal with this and to interact with you around this? And her answer was something along the lines of, well, first, there is no one way which is right for all people who may stutter. And two, thank you for asking because that's what I want you to ask me.

And everything changed in that moment. But had I not actually, had I been more concerned about how I was appearing and not willing to be vulnerable and look ignorant and just ask the question, be curious, it would have had a very different outcome. There's such an elegance and simplicity in what you described is absolutely perfect.

Because we grow so consumed with having the right answer and we grow attached to what it should look like we presume that we know and yet in any interaction with another individual there's this powerful space for creating the next moment together if i don't know and you're feeling uncertain or maybe you're even feeling certain our ability to take this journey together will only come if I share what's there for me and I ask you for your assistance. And we can create that path together. And I think that's true of just, it's certainly true in relationships. You know, things wouldn't get very far with my partner if I presumed all of the answers. As much as she and I have tremendous commonality,

you know, marriage doesn't give you the magic book to be able to predict and know everything. And yet it's that trust. It's the trust that I can ask. It's the trust that we are going to be candid with each other and we're going to share. And it's even the trust that allows for, you know, it permits the discomfort and even the upset that may come when you recognize that the person sitting across from you may think about a circumstance really differently. And if you can let down and be vulnerable, that it's okay that you don't think about things the same way, you actually will find the path. But our attachments really get in the way of everything we're committed to.

Yeah, especially the attachment, the ego attachment to having that identity where you're solid, you know, you're accomplished, you're skilled, there's a certain image that you wanna be associated with. And to not have that association is like we experience almost as a loss, a death, rather than a possibility. Yeah. We live in a world where, you know, as I embarked in this space of diversity, inclusion, and belonging, I had my own epiphany about how we send our avatars to work.

We became the work we were doing. And over the last couple of decades, we've seen a lot of jobs disappear. And in some ways, those very people in those roles disappeared as well, if they didn't have another avenue for expression or a way to reinvent themselves or create new skills. And, you know, what keeps us, I think, vibrant and alive is this ability to reconstitute ourselves, not only the things we learn and the things we actually do, and in the trust that we're willing to invest in another person who may know, if not more than we do, something different from what we know because it contributes to us. It's an add. We often worry about fitting into the world. We don't think about what we add to our world,

whether it's the add that we bring to the environment or the add that we bring to a relationship. And I sometimes think that fit becomes the demise. We assimilate so much that we disappear. It's like becoming the chair in the office. You become invisible in the work you do because you're now part of the furniture rather than being someone who can stand out by your contribution or stand out by your different thoughts or stand out by your ability to see something that someone else can't see because they don't think that way. Yeah. And isn't that the double-edged sword of the buzzword in business now, culture?

Because so many people out there are saying, we hire for fit. We have a defined culture. And more important than anything else is is do you fit the culture? And yet within that culture, because culture always derives be this thing where it can be beautiful and harmonizing, but also incredibly exclusive. And then at the end of the day, destructive to the outcome you're all striving to create. Well, we think about companies that have had strong cultures who, you know, have been iconic and are struggling. The one that I think of today is GE, for example. And, you know, culture fit in many ways was defined by the Jack Welch era of GE. And yet what we really, I think,

see is that companies thrive with culture add rather than culture fit. Not how to be more of the same, but to be able to adapt to the new environment. And today's leader is successful when they operate with an understanding of cultural humility. Not that you and I are going to be the same, but how are our differences able to dance together to create new outcomes? How might I not only coach you and inspire you and motivate you to the vision that we put and bring into the environment, but how do I allow you the space to contribute to that vision and put your spin on how we can generate these results

and delight customers and create environments where people thrive as opposed to operate at this lowest level of sameness, this almost degree of what I call cultural morbidity where we're so much the same that you could just substitute people as though they were widgets. And I think environments that thrive now are the ones where people walk in and while it's not a democracy, there certainly is the ability to be self-expressed in a respectful manner. The ability to point out when you see something that you don't consider appropriate or minimizes or diminishes

another individual or ignores the needs of unique customers. And certainly, you know, that has led to a new way of companies innovating to be more inclusive of what those needs are in addressing the needs of people with disabilities and people who may come from different racial and ethnic backgrounds where they haven't had access to the same kinds of opportunities or even the same conversations about opportunity? And how do you create these adaptive environments that recognize we're not all the same? We have elements of sameness, but our differences can be inherently valuable. I love that. And then how do you even expand that?

I mean, if you take that in the structure of an organization, you know, if you look at culture as the ultimate organization, like, you know, societal culture, we need that. It's not just organizations where we need this right now. It's society at that, you know, the middle, that space where not positioning, but conversation actually takes place where real openness and understanding happens. It feels like, you know, has, if not entirely vanished, it has dramatically narrowed. So it's like, if you agree, and I agree with everything that you're saying, that, you know, the magic happens when we actually, we bring all this difference to a place where we can have these conversations, and not from a place of defending positions,

but actually opening to the ideas and experiences of others. How do we, in a culture and a society where it feels like that is, if not entirely gone, it's greatly diminished, how do we bring that back? You know, I think we've increasingly seen where that historically has been the role of government in society to almost create these bridges. That's not the role our government is playing today, necessarily. You know, people contract to their specific points of view, and they're quite comfortable being in oppositional stances and actually having the kind of breakdown we're seeing today in our government. But I believe companies increasingly are demonstrating the valor and the courage to embark on these bolder conversations. Certainly we see employees of large corporations looking to the CEO for a perspective

when things happen in society. Companies saw that with the Black Lives Matter movement. We've certainly seen that in the aftermath and even the current state of the evolving Me Too movement as well. And so movements no longer exist just in society. the aftermath, and even the current state of the evolving Me Too movement as well. And so movements no longer exist just in society. Those movements are current that carries through what we do, how we do it, and who we are. And so, you know, the what is now matched equally by the how. And increasingly what we see is that that how is, how are we approaching employees?

How are we approaching our customers? What kind of role are we playing as corporate citizens in the business environment that regards the importance of a society to be functional rather than dysfunctional? And I think increasingly as we go through this, we'll continue to see that evolution and it will continue to morph and there'll be new ways in which we'll see these conversations emerge. The work of diversity, inclusion, and belonging that I engage in, however, can't operate without including people who have that different point of view or include those individuals who in some cases may feel that they are being blamed or looked at as being at fault and helping create a reset for everyone because ultimately having a different viewpoint shouldn't be an indictment. What it should be is an opportunity to understand what is the impact

of those perspectives. How do we evolve and grow as human beings to create environments where as we succeed, others are succeeding as well? So again, how do we leverage courage and boldness to override the fear and recognize that it doesn't make us weaker? In fact, it does make us stronger. It makes us more relevant to what's being created for the future and less at risk being irrelevant and not being able to realize those dreams. So the question then is how? How do we do that? Yeah, one by one. I think some companies are doing their part increasingly to encourage these dialogues in their environment. We're doing that at LinkedIn. But I also see, given the rise of social media, there are individuals who are doing it, you know, quite autonomously. They'll present a topic in, you know, in different forums, whether it's an online forum or, you know, going back to the old way of doing things, actual local meetups where people come together to have conversations and meet face

to face and increasingly recognize that a point of view doesn't represent a threat unless the behaviors are designed to force others. How do we create opportunity for all of us? Where do we see the disconnection and then find the space and the place to connect people more saliently so that they feel they have not only command over their life but greater command over their destiny help them learn and help them see the possibility of learning as an avenue for what they really do value which is you know the opportunity to thrive and be relevant make a difference for themselves and their families and for others. swimming or sleeping and it's the fastest charging apple watch getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes the apple watch series 10 available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum

compared to previous generations iphone 10s are later required charge time and actual results will vary mayday mayday we've been compromised the pilot's a hitman i knew you were gonna be fun on january 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot.

Flight risk. in the context of people or communities where one of the things that's causing so much pain and so much separation is that one side looks at the other and sees them as the source, as the direct, either aware or unaware source of their suffering. You know, I think we've seen examples of it in the past. Certainly, I grew up in the late stages of the civil rights movement. And, you know, we saw that the gains that were made on, you know, in the black community through leaders like Martin Luther King didn't happen just based on black people taking a position, but in fact, being able to see their white allies step into the game. And, you know, the word ally often is used by people to kind of say, yeah, I'm for you. You know,

I'm okay with, you know, people of a different race or a different sexual orientation. But what I've come to discover is that the word ally really implies action. It's more than just being okay with a person's difference. It's a willingness to be a champion. It's the cases to be an intermediary. And I think we have that capacity, each and every one of us, to reach across, talk to the person you've never spoken to, talk to that person perhaps that you feared along the way. Certainly, I think in the business environment, to be a leader not only implies doing the work you do really well, but being able to take these matters and create an environment where people can feel safe having those conversations as well. And we're seeing more of that. But I also believe that the everyday hero, the superhero, is that individual who knocks on the door of a neighbor and introduces themselves. When I left New York City, perhaps my big aha, and it's been instrumental in who I've become as a professional,

was going to a city like Dallas, which, you know, if you grew up in New York City, you think, Dallas, why would I ever want to live in Dallas? And to learn the magic of not only being good at your work as a professional and to demonstrate your competence and your abilities, which, you know, in a meritocracy we value so much, but to also have relationships with people, people who are very different from me, who were, like, surprised that I was Cuban and Puerto Rican and, you know, surprised that I was doing the things that I was doing.

And to be able to embrace that difference and that surprise, not taking offense to it, but recognizing that's partly how you educate. And, you know, people learn when there's someone in their life who's different from them. They don't learn when everyone they're surrounded by is the same. So sometimes we have to step over that threshold and bring that difference in the door and explain and share. And as we share, we find those commonalities. We find the things that we value alike. And, you know, I've been fortunate to meet people very different from people who have different political points of view, people who have different upbringings and come from different religious and faith backgrounds and still find there's a lot we can learn from each other if we're willing to trust. what would enable us to operate more holistically and functionally as a society. It's the ability to restore trust. But trust is something we have to give. Sometimes it doesn't get earned.

We have to just give it. Because without trust, it's very hard to accomplish any of this. Yeah. It's easier said than done also. Always. Yeah. That's where the courage comes in. Yeah. Yeah. Right. A little where the courage comes in. Yeah, yeah, right. A little bit of courage goes a long way. Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting time, you know, like as we sit here in 2019, I'm a white middle-aged guy living in New York City. And I found it to be the last few

years, really powerful time of reflection for me, who I am, what my role is in society, what my role is as a father, as a partner, as a friend, as an ally. And trying to initiate the work just internally to understand what all of that means to me. Yeah, but what's really beautiful about what you're sharing, and in many ways, this is what's lost to people, is that it doesn't begin with the outside.

It does begin with you. It's that ability to look beyond the day-to-day transaction of life to understand what is it that matters to you? What kind of future will your children grow up to participate in and be a part of? You know, what will make a difference in the quality of your own relationships to others in a world that continues to change? And who do you get to be in that world? And I fear for the people who live a default existence, a little bit afraid to take on those questions. Because the reality is this experience of diversity, inclusion, and belonging doesn't begin with the other. It begins

with ourselves. You know, we often think diversity is about someone different, and I actually believe that someone different is us. And, you know, some of us know that through our own experiences growing up with siblings. You know, you share a bathroom, you share a household, you may even share DNA and a last name, and you're vastly different from each other. It shouldn't pose a threat. It's an opportunity to understand just a very different perspective and still have lives where you come together at holidays and other times of the year, and you can see the differences in your lives, but you can also see how those differences can really work for each other. Yeah, so great. One thing I want to make sure that we,

I want to explore with you is you also, you have a difference which I think is really powerful. And that is that you accelerated grades and you ended up finding yourself at 16 years old and during Harvard. And then shortly after leaving Harvard. First, tell me a little bit about sort of what went on there. And then I think it's really interesting exploration also to,

you know, you have had a stunning career. Your body of work is powerful and impactful, successful by pretty much any definition, not having ever gone back to Harvard to complete that degree. And there is an otherness about that in the world that you live in, which is pretty profound. Yeah. At an early age, I had to wrestle with incompleteness. But I was eight years old when I decided I wanted to go to Harvard. That was my true north. And having skipped a couple of grades and graduated at 16 and getting into Harvard, it really was like, okay, I know how my life will turn out. And within the year, during my freshman

year, I ended up having to take a leave of absence because my parents were having marital difficulties and my father hadn't paid my tuition and all sorts of things that my parents aren't going to do this for me. You know, I think we all grow up believing our parents have all the answers. I just discovered at an early age that my parents didn't. They were trying to figure out the answers for themselves. And the impact of it was uncertainty for me. And, you know, I think people respond to uncertainty in different ways. Perhaps my superhero power was being able to be responsive to the uncertainty and explore new things, knowing I didn't have the answers. And, you know, as we grow accustomed to having answers, we become a little more resistant to taking risks. My life was naturally now going to be a matter of taking risks along the way. And the risks were to pursue a career that would at least allow me to support myself in some way till I could get back to school.

And I didn't get back to school not because I didn't want to. I actually went back to evening college, weekend college, and had even thought of going back to Harvard. But what I found was I was learning rapidly through my interaction and my relationships with people. And I was curious enough to be able to learn what I needed to know in the business environment, things that weren't being taught in school. And so in some ways, I got ahead of the curve that current society is dealing with, which is,

how do you learn what you need to know, not only in this moment, but how do you look to the future to understand how it's changing so that you can build the skills to adapt to what's next? And that came from having a career that wasn't predictable to me. I thought I was going to be a lawyer in international law. I never expected to do this work around diversity and inclusion, to work in industries like finance and technology and media and insurance. I didn't expect to have my own practice as I did for many years. And so, you know, my life in many ways is about getting to the edge of the cliff and taking a leap. And it's a leap of faith.

And it's one based on you have to have enough willingness to try something new and something different. Otherwise, you're going to get stuck in a routine that isn't going to yield what you want for yourself and for others. I think lastly, as I think about, you know, what's different about my own life, is it's the willingness to recognize the difference is my magic. It's where I get my energy and it's where I constantly get taken back to nothing, to be humbled by what I don't know and to have to learn and to have to build new relationships and be able to see with fresh eyes, with new eyes. Because if you know too much about anything,

the pitfall is that suddenly you'll find you have nothing. And I learned early to not be attached to that particular way of getting to the outcome, which for me, the outcome has always been, how do I make a difference for others? You didn't need to have a degree to do that. You need to have as a commitment to someone other than yourself. Yeah. Working towards something and comfort with openness, comfort with stepping on, like you said, stepping up to that cliff. I mean, it really feels like the super skill for the generation coming up and us to a certain extent in this day and age is not so much domain expertise. It's adaptability. It's a willingness to be open to change.

It certainly has served me well. And I'm not going to say that it's easy. There have been times when I- I'm raising my hand. I'm like, yes and yes. It isn't, but it always opens up new doors. And I think some delight on the other side of it. You know, I've had my fair share of failures, and I've learned from those failures.

Sometimes the biggest learning actually was the humility that comes from the failure. Like, oh, yeah, you went into that thinking you had all the answers. You were really arrogant about that. You're a bit of a jerk. Maybe that doesn't go so well. So being able to always see yourself in that motion, the self-awareness. And years ago when I had my coaching practice, I used to tell my customers the greatest opportunity that we have and the greatest skill set that we can gain is the skill around the ability to adapt. And for me, it's an acronym of awareness of self and others, determining what matters most,

acknowledging reality, planning for action and accountability, and trusting self and trusting others. And so when you adapt, you really are able to glide and flow and dance with whatever presents itself because life is unpredictable. The best laid plans are likely to be challenged at some point. And if we're living a truly predictable life, I question whether we're really living. At least up to now, life has been incredibly unpredictable for me, but it's been a blast. I love that. It feels like a good place for us to come full circle as well. So as we sit here in this container of the Good Life Project, if I offer out the phrase to live a good life, what comes up?

To live a good life is to allow yourself to fail, to be curious enough to learn something you wouldn't have known otherwise, and to let other people contribute to you. You'll see the magnitude of what's possible, not in your thoughts, but in what you create with someone else. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at sparkotype.com. That's S-P-A-R-K-E-T-Y-P-E.com. Or just click the link in the show notes. And of course, if you haven't already done so, be sure to click on the subscribe button in your listening app so you never miss an episode. And

then share, share the love. If there's something that you've heard in this episode that you would love to turn into a conversation, share it with people and have that conversation. Because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold. See you next time. Mayday, mayday, we've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're gonna die.

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