Good Life Project - The Truth About Side Hustles | Chris Guillebeau

Episode Date: July 9, 2019

Chris Guillebeau (https://chrisguillebeau.com/) is the founder and host of the daily podcast, Side Hustle School (https://sidehustleschool.com/), which is downloaded more than two million times a month. Along the way, he has shared the stories of more than 900 side hustles and distilled much of his learning into a new book, 100 Side Hustles (https://amzn.to/2XxKemD). In this beautifully-created, full-color "side hustle recipe book," he describes what a side hustle is and is not, reveals the common patterns, categories, questions, myths and facts, then walks you through specific examples of 100 different side hustles. We also about the role a side hustle can play in crafting a more fulfilling work life. For more about Chris' "origin story," and other New York Times bestselling books, check out our earlier conversations on the podcast here (https://www.goodlifeproject.com/podcast/guillebeau-quest/) and here (https://www.goodlifeproject.com/video/why-the-possibility-of-failure-must-be-on-the-table/).-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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So my guest today is longtime friend of the podcast, Chris Guillebeau. Chris has been in the show a number of times where we explore his backstory, his long journey to visit every country in the world. Today I invited him back because I wanted to talk about this word that keeps coming up over and over again and how it might play a meaningful role in the pursuit of a life well-lived. What is that word or that phrase?

It's side hustle. What exactly is this thing that keeps coming up in conversation, that keep hearing about it? I figured I'd turn to Chris because he's not only lived a life of many side hustles, he has for the last two and a half years produced a podcast where he has interviewed

and told the stories of, I think more than 900 different people who have pursued just a universe of different types of side hustles and really deconstructed what makes them work and how to approach doing it. He also has a beautiful new book out, which is kind of a cookbook of a hundred side hustles.

It's literally called 100 Side Hustles. So I wanted to sit down with Chris and deconstruct exactly what this thing is right now. Maybe do a little bit of myth busting also, and then explore a whole bunch of stories of how people have done this from all walks of life. And that is exactly where we go in today's conversation. So excited to share it with you.

I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. So good to be hanging out with you again, back in the studio. So I'm thinking maybe you have been my guest who's been here more than anybody else at this point. Wow. I feel honored. No, I feel honored. It's kind of fun because every time we come back, I'm kind of like exploring your new adventures, like way back in the day, in the beginning. And for everybody listening, we'll link to some of the earlier episodes with Chris where you can really dive into the backstory.

Traveled, hit every country in the world, has written a series of amazing books. But the reason I asked you back this time is there's sort of this interesting confluence between a couple different things. One is for the last, was it two, two and a half years now, you've been doing side hustle school? Yeah, just about. Right, so that's a phenomenal podcast where literally every day, which blows my mind that you're doing this every day for so long, you're sharing the stories

about people who have this quote thing called side hustles, which we're gonna dive into. And then you come out with a book featuring all these different stories. And then the third thing that really sort of said, okay, so let's actually go deep into this because it made me really curious was not too long ago, we had in the studio, Marcus Buckingham,

who certainly rose to fame as a guy behind strengths and developed a big consulting company. He's now the head of research at ADP. And ADP has just done this big study and Marcus was sharing this with, with us in the studio where they looked at the satisfaction in three different cases. One was somebody who just had a full-time job. That's the way they were living. The other was somebody who had sort of a blend of freelance jobs, no one main thing. And the third condition was somebody

who had a full-time job and then then they had this thing on the side. And he said the research showed pretty clear that the happiest person was that third case. And that really surprised me. But you're nodding your head like that's not a big surprise at all for you. Yeah. Well, I mean, people start these kinds of projects for all sorts of reasons. And I think one of them is it's not just money. I mean, money is very important.

We can talk about that, but it's also this like different creative outlet or like I've got this day job and maybe I like that job, as you said, and I find some purpose in meaning it. But that job, you know, by itself doesn't define me. You know, maybe I'm part of some organization or company and I've got this role,

but I also have this really creative side that I don't get to express. And so that's what I'm gonna do for my side hustle. That's what I'm going to do for my extra thing. So I think to me, it kind of points to, you know, the fact that, that we as humans have more than one interest and we have like more than one thing that we're into, but, you know, traditionally people have just done one thing. And so just being able to mix it up is good, I think. Yeah. It was interesting to me also because he differentiated between not just a full-time job and nothing else and a full-time job and a side hustle, but also

sort of like a blend of side hustles versus a full-time thing and a side hustle. Right. No, that's interesting. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I guess for me, I've always had kind of a blend of side hustles, but over time it became more and more thematic. It's kind of all linked together in some way. So I guess I feel like I have a little bit of a day job in that, in that regard, which is weird. You've now spent so many years talking to so many people who have done this. Do you find that the pattern is that there is sort of like a common story between the main thing and the side thing, or the side thing is more often just completely divergent, or is there nothing

really that you can sort of pull there there's a range i mean there's a range there's a spectrum i do think it's it's more common for the for the side hustle to be either like an offshoot of the the main thing or something that is totally different as opposed to just like this is what i do for my day job like the example is like the accountant who does people's taxes at night that's usually a way to get burnout pretty quickly right because you're doing the same do for my day job. Like the example is like the accountant who does people's taxes at night. That's usually a way to get burnout pretty quickly, right? Because you're doing the same kind of stuff, you know? But I talked to this guy in Dubai who's an accountant by day. And what does he do? He's like a poet. He like puts on poetry festivals, actually gets paid to do that, which, you know, is a story by itself. So I think it tends to be more of a, this is my main thing.

This is my side thing. There's either no connection or it's like a loose connection because you are exploring something that's different. Yeah. So this is the reason that I wanted you to come back because there's this fascinating tie-in to being fully expressed

and to being satisfied with the work that you do in the world and with your contribution. And there are kind of a couple of things that I want to dive into, and we're going to explore some stories. But I wanted to start a bit larger too, because, well, first, you know, we immediately just started throwing this term around, side hustle. Let's define what that actually is, because I think a lot of people use it in a lot of different ways. Yeah. I mean, so I often start with what it's not, at least to me. You know,

side hustle is not just a part-time job. It's not just like, oh, I've got this, you know, 40-hour-a-week thing, and then I go and work somewhere else. It's not the gig economy. It's not driving for Uber or Lyft or whatever because that's not really going to help you get ahead. But the way that we look at it on the show is, you know, a side hustle is an income generating project that has the potential to become an asset for you. So something that can actually help you increase your security, increase your options for the future so that you can do more of what's important to you. Maybe even have the potential to earn money while you're sleeping or doing something else

so that you can get to that place where you're like, what do I want to do with my life? You know, do I want to continue, you know, with the day job, the career? Do I want to go all in with the side hustle? Or do I want to have a blend? Those are good problems to have once you get to that point. Yeah. Do you find that most side hustles are started as more of a test of an idea that maybe, quote, hopefully one day you'll be able to step into full time? Or that they're just kind of like, no, I'm good with, you know, if it just lets me express

myself on the side, maybe gives me a little bit of money, I'm actually good with that. Yeah, I think there's both. I mean, there's, so I said it's a range and a spectrum, but it's like, there are a few clear paths. And, you know, one path is that person who is pretty discontented with their job and frustrated and really wants to make a big change. But for whatever reason, they can't make that change right away. They can't just like quit their job and quote, unquote, be an entrepreneur. You know, and this whole project is not for whatever reason, they can't make that change right away. They can't just like quit their job and quote unquote be an entrepreneur. You know, and this whole project is not for people who want to be entrepreneurs. Full stop.

So you have that person who's like wanting to make a change, but really needs an off ramp, really needs to kind of replicate their day job income or at least get close to it before they can do it. Then you got the person who's just like, yeah, I'm happy where I'm at right now. But I also understand in the world that we live in, I have to look out for myself. I have to create my own security. So I want to build something so that I, again, I have the choice, you know, if the job situation ever changes also, like the job is good now, but what if it changes in a year? What if my company downsizes? What if something like that happens? You know, I want to be able to have something different. So, and you also got people that are like, you know, I want to be able to have something different. So, and you also got people that are like, you know, have a short-term goal of, I had all this student loan debt, or I have some other kind of debt, credit card debt, whatever, and that's really bothering me. That's like a burden. It's, you know, it's preventing me from

doing other things. It's always on my mind. So I want to find a way to pay that off quickly. So people kind of like, the thing I like about this whole project is people have different goals, you know, for why they want to do it, but like the path is the same, right? And so it's like, figure out what's important to you. Why are you doing this? And then let's figure out, you know, what are your skills? What are you interested in? How can we, you know, transform those things into something that can be applied to the money making project? Yeah. And so applied to the money making project is the fact that it does generate money, regardless of why you want to use the money, a key sort of ingredient there also.

Yes. At least in terms of what we look at at Side Hustle School, like what the book is about. So obviously there's lots of things in life that you can do, you know, that have nothing to do with money. And that's great for a hobby, for love, for art, for whatever. But I'm specifically looking at economic empowerment. And so when I think about side hustle, yes, it is like a for-profit project. It can also have a social good component, and a lot of them do. But at the end of the day, it's not only making the world a better place. It's also bringing something to you as well. Yeah.

I mean, which brings up one of my other big questions around this. So in a past life when I was leaving the practice of law. Which feels like 200 years ago. I know. I'm like, life, when I was leaving the practice of law, which feels like 200 years ago, I'm like, well, wait, when was I? That was a completely different person, right? Can't imagine it still. Neither can I in a weird way. So, you know, one of the things I did was I started running a whole bunch of tests. And one of the things I did was I started a little company where we were taking groups of people rock climbing.

I wasn't guiding the rock climbing part, but we take them mountain biking and hiking and bring them out to the outdoors and stuff like that. And one of the things I realized really quickly was I love to do this myself. I love to do it with friends. The minute I turned it into a thing where actually people were paying me money to do it and it was my business, so much of the joy went out of it. Have you explored that at all? Or is there a risk of taking something? There's always a risk. I mean, there's always a risk, but I find just as often there are people who have never thought about getting paid for something.

And then they've never imagined that they could actually. And then all of a sudden, the first time they get paid for that thing or whatever it is, and it's money coming in from that's apart from their paycheck, it can actually feel really empowering. You know, it can actually feel like, oh, this is actually something that I should have been doing a long time ago. This is good. So yes, I think there's a risk. But again, it falls into the category of like a good problem to have. So you do that. It's an experiment. Like you said, you're not making a life commitment, which is another thing I like about this whole process is people get really hung up over like, what idea should I choose? And then they get hung up over it for so long that they never choose anything. And so it's something I always say at these events I've been doing.

It's like, you're not making this lifelong commitment here. Choose something for 30 days. And then at the end of the time, if you realize, well, actually, I'd rather just do that thing for fun, then great. Then choose something else for your side hustle. Yeah, which I think a lot of people really love. Because we live in a time where we're like, I don't want to commit to anything. There's a massive FOMO. But I think that's, I mean, I wonder if that's also a challenge, right?

Because you're like, okay, so I have the freedom. I don't have to commit to it, which means it's easier for me to start and try this. Because if I go into it saying, this is not me for life, I'm going to play and see what happens. That's great. And at the same time, anything that I've ever seen succeed takes a certain amount of grit.

It takes a certain amount of, okay, so at some point stuff's going to get hard. And that may happen really quickly. Sure. And if, you know, it's sometimes it's hard to distinguish between the hard that comes just in the natural process that you move through and the hard, which is telling you this isn't right. And I got to bail on this and try the next experiment. Well, that's why you commit for 30 days. That's why you commit for a bit. So again, it's not a lifetime commitment, but I think within 30 days, you're going with all sorts of reselling or creating a different kind of service or whatever. So I think you'll get the information by committing

for a short, relatively short period of time that again, might not tell you like all the information you need for the rest of your life, but it will tell you like, is this the right thing to move forward with for now? Yeah. So if you've got like multiple ideas, that's the best thing to do. If you've got multiple ideas, just pick one of them and do that for a while and then, you know, change to something else if it's not working. Yeah. Is there, beyond the specific idea, beyond the sort of like skills that you might need for this exact thing, is there, have you seen, now seeing such a huge cross-section of people doing this, like a common set of skills or traits across everybody that is really intelligent to either have or cultivate to make this succeed. Yes. And I think the first thing is a sense of curiosity, like a sense of curiosity or just the

power of observation, which are all skills or traits that can be learned, but you don't actually, there's no, like you don't learn that in school, right? You don't learn the power of observation in school, but just by noticing and paying attention, exploring your curiosity, oh, could I actually make money, you know, doing this thing? Nobody's ever thought of this, you know, before. We might look at some of the stories in the book and it's kind of like that. It's like, you can't imagine that people would make money with that, but somebody wondered if they could. So curiosity, you know, the sense of observation and then the willingness to do something about it, right? The willingness to act, because you can be curious about lots of stuff.

You know, the average person on the street, if you stop and they have some kind of business idea. But most people don't actually take that first step. So just being willing to ask, what if, I think. I think that's a good thing. It's like, what if? And a lot of the stories that we feature on the show, you know, are from people who are like, hmm, what if? Never thought that I can get paid to do X or whatever, but let me try. Yeah. Do you, I mean, building on that, it's, do you

find that the level of investment or stakes plays a role too? Yeah. And I think, so the whole point of a side hustle is keep the stakes low, you know, keep the level of investment low, you know, spend as little money as possible. Definitely don't borrow money. Definitely don't go into debt. And so I think people are often concerned about risk and people are like, I'm not sure I can make a risky decision right now. Well, don't make a risky decision. Like, I really believe everyone is an expert at something. That's kind of a principle that's come through over the past couple of years. Everybody has something. They already have some skills, some knowledge, some expertise, whether they learned it in school, whether they learned it through work, through a hobby,

whatever that can be monetized in some way. And so it's really helpful to explore those things. And you can explore those things, again, without spending any money, without making that commitment that feels overwhelming, without doing anything where the stakes are too high, they feel too high. Yeah, because I think that stops so many people before they're even getting going. So knowing you're going into it saying, it's almost like it's a litmus test, right? If this is a litmus side hustle, then if you find yourself saying like, okay, so I'm going to spend money on this, this and this, it's almost like, that's a red flag, like this is not the appropriate way to approach it. Yeah, exactly. Well, if you have more than one idea, it's like, you know, if you have more than one idea, like I talked to people who want to start like a food-based business

or something sometimes, and you know, there's a lot of costs with that. There's a lot of costs. There's definitely a lot of risk, you know, with that kind of thing. So what I always say is like, is this your passion? Like, are you, is this the thing that you really, really believe in? And if the answer is yes, then obviously then the best path is to move forward. Like if that's what you really believe in, great. You know, people are able to make that work. It's just hard. So if it's not your passion, if you're just like, no, I just had that idea, then I'll, you know, ask what's your other idea? Like in other words, if you've got multiple ideas and you don't feel super strong toward any one of them, why not choose the one that's easier?

Why not choose the one that's more feasible to move forward with? Yeah. And I think people don't generally look at it that way. How do you think they look at it? Because I think they're like, well, this is the one that's more feasible to move forward with? Yeah. And I think people don't generally look at it that way. How do you think they look at it? Because I think they're like, well, this is the one that's drawing me the most. But even if they don't, I don't think people actually have a really solid framework on how to decide between them. So the idea of just, well, pick the one that's easiest. Yeah.

Well, they always want to know what's better, quote unquote. And better is an odd adjective, right? It's like, what are your goals? What are you trying to do? And how much time do you have? You know, how important is it that this project make money right away versus, you know, a year from now or something? These are questions that are more helpful to ask, I think, than just like, what's the best idea? What about the question, how much potential do you think these different ideas have?

I think that's also on the same list of like profit potential. So you've got feasibility, you've got motivation, you know, timeliness, and then profit potential, right? Which is estimated, like you're not certain, of course. Because like anybody, any entrepreneur, any founder knows that any projections past like the first three months or so, even then very often, it's just complete fiction. Sure. That's like, sure. Thank you now. What about the other side of the psychological equation?

So there's the side which says, I don't have money. Like I don't have resources. I can't do this. I don't have time. I'm guessing is a big one also. But then there's this sort of quote, fear of success thing. What if this thing actually starts to really, what if it gets bigger?

What if it gets more successful? It's going to change my life. It's going to require me to invest more time. It's going to, like how I, and you know, like life is actually

pretty good. I just want to be able to do this one kind of fun thing on the side and make a bit of money. What if it really starts to get bigger? Like I don't,

I, well, it doesn't have to, you know, you can make a choice, right? You can make a choice. One of the things that's really fun about the show is a lot of our stories now are coming from

listeners who were part of listening, you know, first year, second year, and have now started their projects. And there's this one project in particular, these two teachers, one's in New York, one's in Connecticut. I think one is an elementary school teacher and one's a high school math teacher, if I'm not mistaken. And their project after like exploring some different ideas was to make tote bags. So they made these like teacher tote bags because they noticed that like every teacher they knew carried more than one bag to school every day. They've got their messenger bag, they've got their lunch bag, they've got their bag with papers that have been graded. And so like, why don't we make, you know, one tote bag to rule them all basically. And they went out and figured out how to do it.

It's like, they don't, they don't have a business background. They we make, you know, one tote bag to rule them all, basically. And they went out and figured out how to do it. It's like they don't have a business background. They just learned, you know, how to make the bags, how to distribute, how to promote, etc. And this really took off. They just started it last year, and it's already a six-figure business. Like in the first year, more than $100,000. They're teachers, you know. So their full-time jobs are still teachers. Yeah, right.

But now they're in the place. So first of all, it's a tremendous success, you know, and it just kind of highlights the, you know, all the different things people can do if they, you know, have that curiosity and then follow up on it. But then also, you know, to your point of like, well, it just, it kind of gets really big. Then what do I do? Well, that's what they're trying to figure out right now. Like how much outsourcing do we do? We were doing everything ourselves at first. Do we want this to be, you know, our full-time thing? Do we want to continue with our teaching career and have this be on the side?

But it's a good place to be in, right? It's a great place to be in. But don't you want to be in the situation where you can make those kinds of choices? And don't you want to be in the situation where if you do continue with the, you know, the day job, the traditional career, you're doing that because you want to, not because you have to, which is a huge, huge difference, huge difference in mindset. Yeah. I mean, it's funny because I think a lot of the traditional view of being financially free or financially secure is you've got X dollars in the bank, right? But this is, this is kind of taking a different lens on that.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you've got, yeah. X dollars in the bank is, is one thing. This is more like I've got options. I've got, you know, dollars coming in from more than one source, basically. And I really have noticed that when people do this for the first time, it feels disproportionately good. You know, somebody can have like a good income for their job. They start this project, they're making $500 a month, $1,000 a month, whatever it is,

that money feels like a lot more because they made it themselves. Because they woke up in the morning and they had a PayPal payment or Venmo or whatever it is. And they see that a stranger, you know, some stranger out there on the internet has actually given me money. And it appears to not be fraudulent. You know, it's actually real money that's going to go to my bank account. I'm on tour and I'm asking people at all the events, do you have a side hustle? And usually about half the people in the room or so will raise their hand. And sometimes I ask, those of you that have this project, do you remember the first time you got paid? Probably

about half of those people will raise their hands. So like 50% of people clearly remember the first time they got that payment. And it's almost like their eyes light up and some of the people have stories about it and celebrated and ran around the house or, you know, called their friends or their family. So that's why I feel like the empowerment aspect of this is so key and so critical because a lot of these people never imagined that they could have a business and never even wanted a business necessarily. They thought that was just a totally different world. And maybe they watched Shark Tank, you know, which is entertaining and interesting on some levels, but it's all about, you know, outside investors. It's all about investors validating people and saying, okay, you know, your idea is good enough for me to give you money. Now, therefore, you can proceed. Whereas everybody I feature, you know, again, is not starting with those

advantages. It's just starting with whatever they have and finding a way to succeed on their own. Yeah. And it's like a form of, it sounds like not just validation of the idea, not just validation of, yes, maybe I can actually make money doing this other thing, but to a certain extent, almost validation of a part of them that hasn't been expressed. Absolutely. It's validation of the person for sure. It is something deeper. Like I said, it's something deeper than just the money. And that's why I noticed, you know, early on people were connecting with it,

I think, because of that. And because I'm trying to highlight stories of people who are just like regular people across America or across the world, you know, who don't have this background in business, you know. And we've 890 episodes so far of Side Hustle school. Maybe I featured like three people that had an MBA, you know, and in each example, it's usually like they had to unlearn everything that they learned in graduate school to actually strip it back down. Right. Right. You know, or somebody there's a lot, I've probably

had a dozen stories of somebody who's like, so they had this idea and they're like, what's the next step? The next step is I need to go to business school. And so they begin that process, you know, and start applying or whatever. And eventually they realize they're going to do better, you know, on it. They're going to acquire whatever, whatever experience and learning they need to have. It's not to say they don't need anything, but whatever that is, they can probably acquire it in another way for a lot less money and a lot less time. I mean, it kind of makes me curious also zooming the lens out with you and side hustle school. So I remember when you were starting this, you know, we've been friends a long time now and you're two and two and a half years into this. It was 800, almost 900.

Yeah. 900, just about just under 900 right now. Right. When you were coming into it, I don't, I don't even know if you can answer this question. Sure. Did you think in your mind, yeah, it'll be no problem finding like 900 stories? Oh, no. I was worried. I was really worried. Well, first of all, I didn't make a commitment for 900, but I made a commitment for the first year. I did make a commitment for 365. And it's really funny that first year, I think some people thought I had like every episode planned out or something in advance.

And I had maybe seven episodes ready to go when we launched on January 1, 2017. I even thought we were talking. Yeah. I thought you had more than that. I think you had a month at least. No. Well, I maybe had like 10 more identified.

These are the people that I'm going to feature, but the episodes certainly weren't done. The script's written. None of that. And so my hope was we're going to launch this thing and it's going to bring in a lot of stories. But I didn't really know, you know, I was like, what is going to happen if we get to like day 17? And I'm like, actually, that's it, everybody, you know, I ran out of stories.

And then the first year it was, especially the first like three to six months, there were some like touch and go moments and we weren't really working ahead very far. And, you know, there were a couple of days where it's like, you know, okay, we got today's episode. I think we have to, what's the day after? We don't know what the day after is. And that's, you know, kind of stressful, but anyway. I need to start my own side hustle. Yeah. Today's story, everybody, is I decided to go back to day seven and, you know, try to replicate the process. So, yeah, so we got to the end of the first year, and it seemed that people wanted to keep going. And so, yeah, I had no idea we'd get to this point.

But what also surprises me is we're not really repeating that much. I mean, you know, we do try to be mindful of like, okay, if we're featuring this story that's kind of like something else, then there's going to be a different takeaway. We're going to pull different lessons from it. But I'm still surprised that on any given week, there's probably three or four things that I have never heard about before, or that we've certainly never talked about, you know, that somebody has figured out how to make money. So that's interesting to me.

I'm learning through the process. My greatest challenge is I want to start all these projects myself. You know, like probably, like I said, about once a week, maybe on this case, it's like once or twice a month, but there is something that I'm working on and learning about. And know, like probably, like I said, about once a week, or maybe on this case, it's like once or twice a month. But there is something that I'm working on and learning about. And I'm like, oh, this is really good. I start researching. I spend about 10 minutes, you know, and I'm like, Chris, there's no, you can't, you don't have time to sell t-shirts on Amazon. You know, you don't have time to whatever this thing is.

Just don't do it. Right. There are enough grilled cheese food carts. Yeah, exactly. Let somebody else have that idea. You know, I actually had an episode recently where I was like, I really want to do this, but I can't. So if you're out there and you've got time to take my idea, you know, go for it.

Yeah. I mean, that's so interesting too, though, because there have been so many times where I think a lot of people feel like they have all these great ideas, but they don't necessarily want to do the work to run with them, but they love to see them in the world. It's almost like, I wonder if a side hustle could be coming up with ideas for side hustles. Well, I guess that's your side hustle. Or that's your main job. So people ask that question. And I think most people are kind of looking for a way out in asking that question. I think most people are like, I'm not really good at doing anything, but I've got all kinds of ideas. Ideas don't really have much value on their own. You know

what I mean? Like ideas, you know, it's all about the execution and the implementation. Yeah. We all have ideas. Right. Exactly. So now you actually have to go out and do the work. Yeah. Because how many times have you or have our listeners like woken up or walked down the street and been like, I've seen something that's for sale. And you're like, oh, I had that idea five years ago and I never did anything with it. And somebody just decided to run with it. Right. So that's why you also shouldn't be too protective of your idea.

If you've got an idea, people are often worried about sharing their idea or something or competition. And it's like, it's a lot of work. If you've had a successful project, it's usually a lot of work to make it happen. You've got a head start. You've put all the time into it and the discovery process and everything. So it's not like somebody's going to come along and steal that. They can't in the same way. No, I totally agree.

I think that's one of the questions that a lot of people ask is, well, before I do the 30 days to run this experiment, don't I need to talk to an IP lawyer and should I protect this? And of course, you know, neither of us are lawyers. Well, I'm not practicing for a long time now, so we can't, this is not legal advice. But yeah, I think what you're saying is really is poignant because so many people just stop at that point because they're like, wow, I don't want to deal with the hassle of doing this. I don't know how to do it.

That actually starts to make me spend a lot more money just to take care and make sure. And you get freaked out that somebody's going to steal your thing. And I'm reminded by people I know who are venture capitalists or seed investors, and they get pitched a million ideas all the time. And people will often ask them to sign nondisclosure agreements. And nobody will ever sign them because they've been pitched that same idea so many other times that they don't want to. They have only liability. It's the same thing. Very few ideas, I think, are truly unique. Yep.

Yeah, no, I totally agree. I would say also like, yeah, once a month or something out of like, you know, the 25 stories, we have like a weekly recap. So that's one of the episodes each week. So out of 25, probably one of them I think is truly, truly unique. You know, I had a story that I'm working on now about this woman who really liked candles and she had like relocated from Florida to Ohio and was getting like a mild seasonal depression in the winters there. And so went out and did some research about stuff and really liked having candles in her house, among other things. But she was just concerned about the sustainability of it and had all these like, you know, unused candle containers or used candle containers that she couldn't do anything with when she was done with them. Short version is she made a, see if I can describe this properly. It's a candle that comes in a container where the label of the

container includes before. And I was like, I think that's pretty, maybe somebody else has done it that way, but that to me sounds pretty unique. That's one out of 25. You know, the other 24 are interesting. They probably got their own twist on it. It might be different than something else in some ways, but it's not completely unique. And that's fine. You don't have to come up with an idea like that to be successful. In fact, in some ways it can be hard to be successful with that kind of approach because you have to educate your market. You have to show people like, hey, you never thought about this thing before,

but you actually need it. Whereas if you're providing something where people are like, oh yeah, I need that. I know I need that. That's easier. Yeah, it's like blue ocean versus red ocean. It's like you're literally, it's a lot harder to actually break into that

because of what you just said. A lot of times you have to educate the market that you even need this, let alone the fact that it exists. But once you do that, you kind of become the solitary player in this space. And eventually people will notice what's happening and catch up. But it's like you own that domain for a window of time.

You kind of own the realm of possibility as well. It's scarier. Yeah, yeah, right. The other thing that popped into my mind as you were saying that though, the other fear, and I'm wondering if people have brought this up to you also, is that, so like that example, right? Have people come to you and said, well, okay, so,

but what happens if, and this is kind of building on the IP thing, but it's a little bit different, I think. So I go and I do my 30 day experiment, right? And this idea, boom, it's like clear as day. It's new, it's cool, it's awesome. There's a lot of demand for it. It's actually getting a whole bunch of attention that I never even thought it would be getting.

But I've now just proven viability for something that a big player who's like got all the resources can easily like take a half a step to the left, replicate and scale massively. And then I'm gone. I mean, maybe, you know, like maybe there's some scenario where that actually happens, but I feel like people's fears of those things happening are far greater than what the actual reality is. You know, most big companies are not in a position

to come in and take an idea. Like most big companies have, have plenty of stuff that they're doing, you know, and you're not actually going to, actually going to really even be competing against big companies when you're starting. You're just kind of putting something out in the world. So for anything where there's demand, where you prove viability, I would say just focus on that. I almost wonder whether also part of the antidote to that is the fact that you are one human being just doing something out of a blend of, you know, like deep interest and curiosity out of your own pocket on the side is part of the story that makes people want it.

Not just because it's something cool, but, you know, your origin story is part of the product to a certain extent. And that's what people are buying as well. No, for sure. I think that's why it's actually so important. Just a very practical step is, you know, with your site, also with your website, you know, include a picture of yourself,

have an about page. It's really clear. Why did you start this product or this service? You know, like the teachers with the tote bags, you know, that's a really clear origin story. Everybody kind of connects to it. They're like, oh, it's great. Of course, teachers would know what needs to be in a tote bag. And, you know, if you know a teacher in your life, you're like, oh, I want to get that for them as a present. What was the other story? You know, like the candle thing, like on their website, it's like they have this, it's a couple. So they have a picture of them. They tell the story of like moving from Florida to Ohio and the discovery process and how they were concerned about the environmental impact. And they found this solution. So it very much telling your story is really important. Whenever I encounter,

I guess I'd hustle with, they've got a great idea, but they haven't thought to do that. That's always like one of my first suggestions. Yeah. I mean, and it's funny because I reflect back to you when you were starting, sort of like in the, in the, you know, blogging slash public space a decade ago at this point, right? And it was all about your story. Like you were on this, you know, like 10-year adventure to visit every country in the world. And people just wanted to ride along with that story. It was almost like living vicariously through you during that whole journey.

Yeah, and it was interesting because, and also people would sometimes say, I want to come and travel with you. And, but they really didn't, you know, they wanted, they had an image of what that was like, you know, I want to come and travel with you. And I was like, well, it's pretty boring. Actually, a lot of what I do, a lot of what I do is like waiting around. I'm like on the bus for hours and hours, you know, like whatever, but they, they kind of in their minds, they, they imagine this like Indiana Jones kind of, you know, lifestyle experience in every country. So I think that's part of it. And I didn't really cultivate that. Like I tried to be really clear, like, here's how it works, but people kind of imagine what they want to imagine. Yeah. Let's talk about it. And one of the interesting things is, and by the way,

I literally have your book in my hand as I'm speaking. This is gorgeous. Oh, thanks. I can't take all the credit for that. This was more than any other book I've done. This is very, very much, you know, a team effort. So we work with writers on the show, you know, to draft all the scripts. And, you know, they're credited there. We had 15 photographers all across the country, you know, to go and do these photo shoots. Worked with a publisher that's very design forward, which was part of the process. You know, it was kind of hard to convince most publishers to take on this book because the printing is expensive.

The production quality is high and difficult. So I got to give credit to them. Yeah. No, I mean, I'm sitting here and for those who haven't seen the book yet, it's, I don't know, what's the kind of binding? I'm seeing more and more of these books out these years where there's no dust cover on it. Yeah. There's a term for that. I forget what it is.

I can't remember what it is. And it's, you know, it's like this beautiful multicolor inside with full color images. It's more like a, I feel like it's a, it's a reference book almost. Yeah. It's a cookbook was the inspiration for it. I was like, I want to do a side hustle cookbook. If you imagine a cookbook, I want recipes and photos and stories. And I want there to be a lot of them, you know? And so that's why like 100, that idea came up. And it was really funny. I mean, this is like a little bit of a side note, but when I went to my publisher to talk to them about doing the book, you know, the first publisher that I talked to, at least the one that I've worked with before, I was like,

I've got this vision, you know, I want to do like a cookbook, right? And I want it to be like full color throughout with all these, you know, photographs want to do like a cookbook, right? And I want it to be like full color throughout with all these, you know, photographs. And they like came back and they're like, that sounds great, but can you do it in black and white with no photographs, you know, and not very visual, et cetera. And so obviously there's a bit of a process there. Yeah. Now I'm amazed that this thing exists in the format because I know the industry also. Like I can't imagine being a fly in the wall. We love the color book,

but just in black and white. And we love the idea of photos, but not actually in the book. Right. I've had this conversation where like, we love the concept and we love your writing. And we're like, we're totally behind this. We just need you to completely change

what it's about and how you're going to do it. Other than that, it's a go. Yeah. We literally had probably several, three or four publishers say to my literary agent, oh, we really like Chris. We really like Chris. We want to do a book with Chris, but not this one, basically. And they're like, you know, they even ask him, does Chris have another one?

Like, I have another book in my pocket. Like, oh, sure. That was his, that was his, that was the book in his right pocket. But let me look and see. Here's another book for you. You know, it doesn't quite work like that. Yeah. It's like, we'll do the next one where it's a paperback and black and white and really low risk. One of the things that, you know,

going along with the cookbook idea, you know, one of the things I thought was really cool about the book, and maybe this, I think this would potentially be useful for our listeners, is that you have, you sort of, I guess, over like such a vast number of case studies, you've seen common themes. You know, it's sort of like you've broken it into, it's like your desserts, your entrees. Like there seem to be sort of like a set of different common categories that people create these side hustles in. I thought maybe we'd touch down to some of those categories and share some of the stories in each one of them. And I guess, you know, I was thinking, do we just go this in a linear way? But actually my curiosity is,

while you kind of feature them evenly, do you see, is there one where you see a lot more people tend to sort of mine that category? Oh, interesting, interesting. In terms of the categories, yeah. So, I mean, some of the buckets are like, you know, this is a service-based business. This is a product-based business. Here's like, you know, this is a service-based business. This is a product-based business.

Here's like, you know, a digital business or an app. You know, if you're a coder, if you're into that, there's a whole category. Do you really want to do something that's like social good, you know, while making money for yourself? So I'm not sure there's one category necessarily, but I would say probably the easiest one to get started with is reselling. And so, you know, if you're out there and you're like, I don't know what my side hustle should be, the simplest thing you can do if you need to make money right now is to find a way to buy something and then resell it.

So I don't know if that's necessarily like the one people are most interested in, but I'd say it's the most accessible. Yeah. I mean, because the minute I hear that come out of your mouth, I'm like, that's not sexy. No, it's not. But maybe it is for some people. And maybe it's the thing that you're reselling that makes it sexy or interesting to you. Yeah.

Well, I mean, does your side hustle have to be sexy? So that's an interesting question, right? Does it? Listen, when I got started, you know, 20 years ago now, 21 years ago, I was 19. And I learned about reselling. And it was the coolest thing in the world when I learned about it, because I was like, I can't believe that I can like buy something and then resell it for like a higher price. I'm learning about everything, copywriting and like taking photos and shipping logistics. Maybe it sounds boring, but at the time, to me, it represented freedom.

It represented like this is my escape path, you know, from the job that I had at the time, which was paying like minimum wage while I was in school. You know, I went from making $8 an hour at that to making like $15 an hour buying and reselling things without knowing anything, without having any skill in it at all. So, you know, maybe in some ways it's not sexy, but it's, you know, freedom is pretty attractive. And the, you know, the opportunities that came from that so much, you know, so much led from that. But if you don't like that one, there's other, you know, other categories.

Yeah, but I think it's a really important point though, right? Because maybe the thing that's sexy is what it gives you or what, like, the feeling that it gets you

or the possibility that it gives you rather than the actual pursuit. And then maybe, then I'm also like, well, could you then make the day-to-day process sexy by trying to say, okay, so like it's pretty cool to just learn anything new. Focus on that.

Focus on sort of like the curiosity side of it, no matter what the, you know, quote, content part of it is. Yeah. I mean, those early days when I was like packing stuff up and taking like 20 boxes to the post office, it's like, now I don't want to do that for sure. But then it was the most exciting thing in the world. It's like, these people are like, you know, buying stuff for me on eBay or whatever the platform is. And like, I get their money and then I go and like ship it off to them

and they leave a positive review. You know, five stars, really like this. It was just fun. It was really fun. Yeah. Do you remember going in and dropping off the packages? Like, was there ever a point where the person behind the desk

sees you coming back over and over? Like, who are you and what are the packages? Like, was there ever a point where the person behind the desk sees you coming back over and over? They're like, who are you? What are you doing? Yeah. Actually, there was one time when I needed to get a lot of money orders and I needed like $1,500 in money orders, but they were like $20 each or something. So it was a long process and they had some questions about it.

They're like, you know, is this money laundering or some situation or, yeah. I mean, when I kept dropping off packages all the time, cause it wasn't as common back then. I mean, now I'd say like, nobody asked that question, you know, but it wasn't as common when I was doing it. Yeah. So under the reselling bucket, what is, is there, I mean, what's an interesting story that maybe our listeners would relate to? Wow. I mean, like I got some unusual ones, you know, I mean like, and that's also part of the kind of DNA of the show in terms of trying to tell stories that are just really quirky or different or whatever. So there's this guy who's, you know, drop shipping live crickets and he's selling them

to reptile owners. So when I say drop shipping, I mean, he's not actually handling any of the inventory himself. He's taking in these orders and he passes the order to a cricket farm and they mail out the crickets, you know, and he profits from this each month. So I don't know that everybody wants to go out there and do that. Like, did he have a love of crickets, pre-existing love of crickets? Oh, he was looking for a market and I don't quite know how he stumbled upon it, but he realized that there are people out there buying them and like nobody was really doing it the way he was doing it.

And I think one of his secrets was actually using USPS because all the other cricket farms only use FedEx and it got expensive or something. Yeah. I think part of the interesting thing about the buy, it's really the reselling thing, or, you know, because you call it in the category in the book, like buy low, sell high, is also when you zoom the lens out, like this is how multi-billion dollar organizations make their money, but they call it, they use a fancy word, they call it arbitrage.

Right, right, exactly. Right, and they're making like a tiny fraction of a cent on a bazillion transactions, you know? And it's all about identifying market inefficiencies. And then, which exist all around us all the time, all day. And it's like, can you find those inefficiencies in some way? Absolutely. So you can go to a yard sale or a flea market

and compare what you see there to what you see online, different listings and, you know, buy and sell things. So here's another example. There's a family. It's actually a guy from Ghana, if I'm not mistaken, a Ghanaian immigrant to the US who was in college and basically paid his way through college by buying and reselling

textbooks. And so he studied that, you know, he studied that process, that market, and he, you know, looked to see what the most popular, you know, economics textbooks, you know, costs are selling for and how many people are buying them, et cetera. He didn't have, I mean, he had very, very little money to start with. Basically bought, you know, three books and then resold those three books and then used the profit from that to, you know, three books and then resold those three books and then used the profit from that to, you know, buy five or six books. And eventually, like I said, paid his way through school and now he's doing something different. But that whole, that skill that he learned, you know, allowed him to get to the next phase of life, you know, otherwise it would have

been very difficult for them. Yeah. And I love that also because it's an example of sort of like a time-limited reason to do it. Sure, yeah, and he stopped. Yeah, he's like, I'm not going to be a full-time textbook reseller for the rest of my life, but I'm very grateful for that experience. Yeah. We had Jim Quick on the show not too long ago who was sort of labeled by a teacher, the boy with the broken brain when he was young, told he couldn't learn, was doing, have a terrible time. And he got hip. He started to learn speed reading and meta learning

in just almost kind of like through happenstance. And his freshman year of college, basically on the verge of wanting to drop out. And he quickly kind of said, okay, this is an interesting example of a side hustle that eventually turned into his main thing. He said, okay, well, this is a completely changed my life. I'm just going to throw a sign up on campus, you know, and for anyone who wants to show up, I'm going to teach you like these things, like these 10 things about speed reading or

something like that. He figured, you know, like maybe five people would show up. And he, you know, just got one of the common spaces in college. I think like a couple hundred people showed up. And in the blink of an eye, it turned into a business that was generating tens of thousands of dollars during college. That was never supposed to be his thing.

Considering especially he was the kid with the broken brain. Who was he to teach people how to actually perform at a higher level? And that has now turned into a substantial company after college, but he was teaching it on the side throughout college. Yeah, and so he didn't spend a lot of money to get started. He had the origin story, the boy with the broken brain.

He had the curiosity, the observation, the sense to ask, what if? What if I could actually get paid for doing this? And then he did something about it. I mean, he actually took action and put up the flyer. So without those things, none of that would have happened. Yeah, and by the way, he's also a very strong introvert who had never spoken publicly in front of anybody before.

Great, good for him. So when he first showed up and he saw all the people there, he left. He literally walked out. That's great. Because he was freaking out, and he had to kind of convince himself to go back in. Wow, wow. And now this is what he knows where he's living. So it's really interesting.

So the buy low, sell high, I think is sort of like the low threshold way to step into it. Teaching seems to also play a big role, sort of like teaching what you know. In the book, you feature a story you call Lif Girl Scout earns her side hustle. Oh yeah, that's a good story. So this is a woman who, you know, grew up as a Girl Scout, was very committed to the organization. They became a troop leader for a number of years. So for, I think something like more than 20 years, up to 30 years, she's really involved in the Girl Scouts. And then she had a child who was a boy and she kind of had to step back from, you know, active leadership, but she missed it. And so throughout all of her experience, she had learned a lot and come up with lots of exercises and activities and was kind of a mentor

and just good at facilitating different things. So she started creating these resources that other troop leaders could download from her website. You know, here's an activity, here's the best practice for this thing, you know, here's some activity, here's the best practice for this thing. You know, here's some maps, various things. And she sold them really, really affordably. It was like three to $5 each. You know, I remember actually making the episode on her and I said, I think she could actually charge

a little bit more and still be okay, you know, or maybe bundle these things, like a bundle of, you know, $25 for all this stuff or whatever, but even selling it at that really, really low rate, she's making like $3,000 a month. So she's making $3,000 a month from selling these Girl Scout resources.

And she also has this knowledge and constant reinforcement of all these emails she gets from people who talk about how helpful it is. And so she's no longer able to be a troop leader, but she's actually influencing more Girl Scouts now than she ever was before. Yeah, that's amazing. Doing good and doing well. What you just shared made me curious about something also. So you're a multi-time entrepreneur and founder at this point, and I know you got a lot more founding in your future too. And I know you hear a lot of ideas and you have opinions on ideas and also opinions on how you would do it.

I'm curious, when you have all of these conversations, you look at what people are doing, just on a personal level, are you ever sort of tempted to be like, to flip the roles of almost being the journalist and just documenting it and saying, well, what if he did this? Or what if he tweeted this?

What if he did that? Become more of like the advisor versus just being completely neutral and sharing the story. Well, I do share my opinions from time to time. I mean, sometimes I'm just telling the story, but I usually do a bit of analysis. And I don't mind at all saying, oh, I went to their website and I thought they did this really well and I really liked this, but I kind of wondered about this, you know, just as a, as a way to offer, you know, a little bit of a critique. And I always say like, Hey, it's my two cents, you know, do with it what you will. And obviously they've been able to be successful, you know, to this

degree. But yeah, sometimes I will do that. One of the other ones in the teaching side of things was organic chemist masters's educational alchemy. Yeah, that's a great story of, you know, this guy who grew up and studied chemistry, wasn't really sure what he wanted to do, ended up going to get a doctorate, had some years traveling and like just learning about life. And he started doing online tutoring for a while. He started doing this really in the early days. And actually his his family just didn't understand. Why would anybody pay somebody online for a tutor? Why don't you just get that from your college or whatever? And he did pretty well with that. But then the way he was really successful was he started writing guides, like study guides.

And he really focused not on chemistry students, but on pre-med students. So people who are going into medical school, but they had to have like this knowledge and pass these tests and it wasn't always easy for them. And so he found a way to make that information accessible. And now his site, his chemistry, organic chemistry learning site is, you know, one of the top 10 in the world.

And he's making a really good, you know, passive income for the most part, six figure income, you know, from providing those resources. Yeah. It's amazing when you think about like, what do I know that is sort of commonplace to me, but would be just super valuable for people. And then also for him to say, okay, who would it be valuable to? And at what point would it be most valuable to them? And can I focus on that person at that moment? Right. Yeah. It reminds me as well, there's a guy in India who was working for Microsoft,

I believe. And he was really good at spreadsheets. And he helped people with spreadsheets and was really good at the formulas and all that. And so he made a course, like Basic Excel or something. And then he made another course. And basically, that's what he does full-time now. He quit his, quit his job and just produce these courses. So he's making these like spreadsheet courses specifically for managers who have, you know, these specific needs, you know, in India and elsewhere around the world. So everybody's an expert at something. Yeah. One of the other things that you talk about, I guess, is it'd be considered another bucket is bringing people together. And we both have a lot of experience in various different ways. Like you've been running this incredible event,

World Domination Summit for years now. We ran our own adult summer camp for five years. And so I think this is kind of near and dear to both of our hearts, but those were kind of at scale. But it's interesting to think that there are interesting opportunities for people for you to be the one who in some way shape or form gathers people even on a small scale or a

local scale yep I mean there's a story about this woman in San Francisco who leads hiking tours and in the San Francisco area there are actually all these trails people who aren't you know from there don't realize it they think oh it's a big city which it is a big city, but very close to the city and very accessible. There are all these trails. And so she basically is the first one who started like San Francisco urban hiking trails. And she has a day job and she does the day job, but she's kind of bringing who are doing dessert tours, like specifically focused on dessert. I think that's here in New York and they branched out somewhere else. Someone else who really focused on brunch, like brunch and networking for millennials. So millennials want to go to networking events, but like, you know, it's hard for all sorts of reasons, but they also like brunch. So you bring brunch and you have speakers together. And so she's created this whole business. I think it's called Brunch Work.

Yeah. And one of the things I love about that model also is that, especially on a smaller local scale, it really is very low investment. And there are all these platforms that exist already to help you sort of like take care of everything, whether it's Meetup or Eventbrite or all these, whatever the platform that you use, where you don't have to build anything. You don't have to invest anything. And a lot of them, if there's money that you have to pay, it only happens after other people have paid you to say, to raise their hand and say, right, exactly. So this is a good side hustle for somebody who's a connector or somebody who, you know, is more extroverted or outgoing, you know, likes to work with groups. They've got an idea. I think it's, it's really helpful to look when you're like, what's my side hustle going to be? It's not just like, what's your interest? You know, it's, it's more about what your skill is, but then also what's your personality. I think it's really helpful to look when you're like, what's my side hustle going to be? It's not just like, what's your interest? You know, it's more about what your skill is, but then also what's your personality.

Yeah. I think that's something that people don't really talk about, but it's important. Yeah, I think that is, right? And I think also your sense of extroversion versus introversion is part of that. Absolutely. 100%. 100%. Yeah, it's funny because people have asked me, like, you're kind of like a well-known

introvert. How did you run this giant thing for five years? And I was like, well, A, I didn't run it. You know, like I was there, I was a part of it, but, you know, it was, you know, a bunch of other people on our team who really took the lead with it. And part of it was understanding my social orientation

and then building a team that would be very forward-facing who were largely raging extroverts that could take care of everyone and would be filled out-facing who were largely raging extroverts that could take care of everyone and would be filled out rather than emptied out by that. So I could kind of step in and step out and be okay in that setting. One of the other buckets I want to make sure we touch on before we wrap is the one that came to me first, because I'm a maker, right? And this is get crafty, get paid.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Probably had more stories from this category than any other one. I had to kind of limit some of them. Yeah. A lot of artists. I bet, right? Because I think a lot of people, you know, are into like arts and crafts to some degree and there's something that they, they like to make, you know, as you, as you say, but there's also a disconnect because like a lot of people who are makers or want to be maker really struggle

with the financial side of things. Like, I don't really, you know, I don't really know, you know, how I can make money with it. So maybe it's kind of a case of like on the show, which is where like all these stories from the book come from, You know, we have a lot of artists out there. Whenever I share a story about like, here's an artist who actually makes money, I get really good feedback on it, you know? So maybe it's a little bit of a loop there. And I think there are also some really, I don't want to say easy, but some really obvious lessons that you can extract from the stories that are successful. Like all these people are selling on Etsy or trying to sell on Etsy. Yet here's a story,

there's one in the back of the book about a woman who's actually built a seven figure business, like million dollar business, starting from selling, I believe it's like lamps and lighting equipment on Etsy. So I think it's helpful to be able just to like make the connections between those things. Yeah, I wonder also if this is like the making impulse,

which very often expresses itself in the world of craft, right? Is almost always, I think, if you don't already exist in that world and see that there is potential economic viability, most people are like, oh, that's a lovely hobby. Yeah. Or maybe you just really, you can't even justify it. Like you shouldn't be spending time doing that. You have more important things to do with your life.

And it's like when you actually show all of these examples of people who said, well, no, like you don't. I feel like it is a largely often economically devalued and repressed part of so many people. Yes. Yeah. And it's like you're saying, it doesn't necessarily have to be. That's right. Because look at this person, look at this person and so on. Even like the organic chemist that we were talking about, who it's not crafty in that way,

but he had a lot of resistance from his family and friends. And he talks about how he's really glad that he listened to his inner voice and actually just said, I think there could be something to this. I'm going to proceed. So one of my goals with this whole project is not to give permission to people because people don't need permission from me or anyone else, but to shine a spotlight on all these different regular people from different walks of life, some of whom I think everybody's going to connect with. You're not going to connect with all 100 people in the book, but you will connect with some. And just to kind of challenge those assumptions and challenge the assumption that you can't do this, or there's no value in this, or you're not good at something, or the only skill that you have can be applied in

the career that you're in. I think a lot of people are like, I'm not good at anything apart from what I do for my day job. And usually in like a three-minute conversation, pretty much always, there's a way to actually uncover something that they're actually good at that could be applied in one of these projects. Yeah, I love that. I mean, to a certain extent, it's like the show, the book, the continuing body of work is serving as like a body of evidence. You know, you have a large enough cross section of humanity

that has been able to figure out all these different ways to do it. It's like in some way, shape or form, it's like you can, any one person can find themselves in some blend of other people that you're putting out there. You know, which I think kind of starting to come full circle, like speaks to, I wonder if this is an excuse that,

not an excuse, but just some talk that people have in their head, which is like, well, good for them. Like they were in this station in life or this place in life or have a certain amount of opportunity that I just don't have. And I feel like this part of what you're doing with this is saying it's actually not about that. Yeah. A large part of what I'm doing is kind of challenging those objections that people have. I don't have time. Okay. Well, probably like two thirds of the people in this book didn't have time either, but here's how they figured out how to do it. You know, here's how they learned to work, you know, 20 minutes a day or whatever pocket of time they had to make this happen. I don't have money. Okay. Well, again, you know, 75% of the stories in the book, you know, started with a few hundred dollars or less, even lots of $0 startup stories. You know,

I don't have a good idea. Well, we've just talked about, you know, ideas are everywhere and you'll probably get an idea from reading the book or listening to the show. Yeah. Love that. So when you think about the universe of opportunities that are out there to do this, it really is endless. And kind of circling back to that bit of research that we started out with, if we now know that some of the most fulfilled people

actually are people who have a decent, sustainable, maybe even necessary mainstream job, and they have this thing on the side, and they're never going to grow into anything else. That can be a valid, significant form of earning or living and contributing to the world, and that that's actually,

and it doesn't have to be a transition point, and the blended approach to doing this world and that that's actually, and it doesn't have to be a transition point, you know, and it's, and the blended approach to doing this is something that is really legit and worthy of pursuit. Yeah. It can actually be very meaningful. It can actually be something that they're not doing it just because they have to do it again, but because they want to, because they find fulfillment and joy in all parts of their life. Yeah. So let's come full circle ourselves now. I've asked you this question before, but I'm always curious because whenever we sit down in the studio with somebody and it's been a couple of years, sometimes things change. So as we sit here in this Container of Good Life project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up?

Yeah. I remember we talked about it years ago, and I'm not quite sure what I said then. I probably said something about improving my circumstances and improving the circumstances of others. That's always been my standard question, what does success mean to you? I think now I might add something. I still agree with that, but I might add something about being true to myself. A good life is being true to yourself in all forms. And that doesn't mean that you're self-centered. It doesn't, like when you're true to yourself, you're actually being good to others as well.

Because I think part of being true to yourself is like cultivating generosity and cultivating helpfulness and understanding that our lives are made better through contribution. But it ultimately comes down to like understanding who you are and living with that authentically. Thank you. Thank you.

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