Good Life Project - They Said It Couldn’t Be Done | John Chester

Episode Date: June 18, 2019

John Chester has been a filmmaker and director for the last 25 years, telling stories that re-connect us with our humanity and help us see the same in others. During that same time, his wife Molly, was busy changing lives as a private chef and teacher in LA, with a focus on natural foods, biodiversity and sustainability. Years into their careers, they took a radical left turn, moving out of the city, buying a piece of land that’d been deemed largely unfarmable and transforming it, over a period of years and sometimes gutting challenges and loss, into Apricot Lane Farms (https://www.apricotlanefarms.com/). It's not just a biodynamic, regenerative and organic farm, but a stunning example of what is possible when you hold onto a vision to rehabilitate a small slice of nature, while surrendering to how the adventure tells you it needs to unfold. The story of Molly and John’s journey is captured in a moving new documentary called The Biggest Little Farm (https://www.biggestlittlefarmmovie.com/).-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My guest today, Jon Chester, has been a filmmaker and television director for the last 25 years, telling stories that reconnect us with our humanity and kind of help us see the same in others. And during that same time, his wife, Molly, was busy changing lives as a private chef and a teacher in L.A. with a really deep, committed focus on natural foods, biodiversity and sustainability. But here's the interesting thing. Years into their careers, they decided to do something pretty radical. They came together and moved out of the city, bought a piece of land that had been deemed largely unfarmable. Like it just couldn't sustain life, and transformed it over a period of years into something really profound. This became Apricot Lane Farms, which is not just a biodynamic,

regenerative, organic farm. It is also a stunning example of what is possible when you hold onto a vision to rehabilitate a small slice of nature while also surrendering to how that adventure tells you it needs to unfold. The way that affected everyone involved has been profound. The story of Molly and John's journey, actually, and the transformation in nature, the animals, the humans, the plants, the land, everything that's unfolded over this time is also now captured in a really moving, stunningly filmed new documentary called The Biggest Little Farm, which we'll link to in the show notes, of course. Quick note also, we'd love to actually have been able to share a conversation with both Molly and John in today's episode.

In fact, they were both here, but unfortunately, literally hours before, Molly lost her voice. Zero voice, nothing. The day of the taping. So John is standing in for both of them as the storyteller in residence. So excited to share their journey with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever,

making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary.

Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is?

You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight risk. So as we sit here in New York City, very different world in which you currently live in a farm about an hour outside of L.A. But that also is a profoundly different world you inhabited in a past life. Yeah. So, which was primarily as a filmmaker.

Curious, you know, if we take even a bigger step back than that, how do you actually, how do you get into that first part of your journey? What's the thing that starts to draw you to that as a profession? When I first started, I knew I wanted to be a filmmaker. I didn't know how to be a filmmaker, but what I did have was a little bit of an eye for composition. And I realized that through still photography. And instead of being a good

storyteller, what I was was at least a halfway decent cameraman. So it was continually giving opportunities to work with really good storytellers. And over time, I started to understand the craft of story and was able to pull the sort of what I would say is like the God-given talent, at least a little bit of an eye, an edge of understanding of what's pleasing. And so for me, it was just a natural progression into like nature photography and the things that I started doing later in my life. So then still photography was sort of your entry point? That was your way in? In high school, but I wouldn't call myself a good still photographer. I was really interested in the moving images that came from shooting either film or video

and how easily you could translate an emotion and story just with images. And it wasn't until later that I started to understand the importance of, you know, dialogue and how dialogue was used and even in capturing documentary. But me, it was all about the emotion that came from images. And so that's what started it for me. And so that, that, that's what started it for me. And so I think that was like also an easier thing for me to sort of get into nature photography or, you know, wildlife documentaries because I loved watching animals and they don't speak, but there's so much emotional storytelling and, and just the images

and the way they're sequenced together. Yeah. And just so you, and you were aware of that sensibility, even sort of like in high school at a younger age, like that desire to go there and tell that story and explore the emotional side of things. Yeah, I think so. I remember the first thing I did in high school that people gave me all like the positive feedback where I'm like, whoa, maybe I have something here. Is I went out and I shot video of the Special Olympics that had like a local Special Olympics that had come to our high school. And just translating those stories with just imagery. And I watched the audience, you know, that was watching this film later be moved. And the feedback I was getting was just exhilarating. Like they got it. They were seeing what I was seeing. Like I was capturing things going,

this feels right. And then I was getting the feedback of an audience going, you know, crying over it or being emotionally moved by it. And I was like, this is really amazing to be able to have your art sort of translate and expand to a larger audience. And for people to feel what you felt is very validating. Yeah, it's kind of like your inciting incident. It was my inciting incident. Yeah, to go in that direction. Had you taken any classes or been trained in that before? Or was this all just you figuring it out

along the way by yourself? It was, I didn't, no, I didn't have any classes. I had a terrible time in school with focusing. And I knew at a young age that I wanted to work in film or in storytelling in some capacity. Probably when I was in third grade, I remember actually drawing pictures of cameras instead of learning what an atlas was. And then the high school also got an educational access channel. And so I started finding equipment to build this little TV station in the high school. And we were broadcasting these little TV shows in our local town. And so I would lose myself for hours in this and I would stay there till sometimes three and four in the morning. The principal actually

gave me a key to the high school because he saw how much I was expanding this program and how focused I was on it. But it was my everything at that moment. Yeah. It's amazing. I mean, I'm always fascinated by moments where one person who you perceive as being somebody who, you know, like has something to say or some role of authority or who you trust in some way, sees something in you and that requires you to take a different path and validates that that's okay for you to do that with this one teacher. And then it sounds like that everybody else kind of said, well, yeah, this is his way or his thing. Do you ever wonder what happened if like that one teacher didn't see this in you? Well, I love that whole sort of awareness

for what you're talking about, because even more, I guess, I guess ironic's the right word, but I had a terrible different time spelling. So my English teacher was probably the person I feared the most, but he ended up being one of the ones that gave me that opportunity that saw that. So it was,

it was just a doubly profound for me, but yeah, I mean, without people like that in your life, the trajectory can be very different. And I think once you're aware of how seemingly insignificant acts like that are, you live in a, in a state of situational awareness for the power of those moments. And I think you become more careful in the energy that you put out to the people that could be profoundly changed by it. Hmm, now that makes sense. Where was this, by the way, where'd you grow up?

I grew up on the Eastern shore of Maryland in a town called Berlin, Maryland. It's just outside of Ocean City, Maryland. I grew up on the eastern shore of Maryland in a town called Berlin, Maryland. It's just outside of Ocean City, Maryland. I grew up kind of in both. It's a little resort town connected to an incredibly rural part of Maryland that is focused on growing soybeans and corn for Purdue chickens. So were you actually around sort of like the farming world at all as a kid then? Yes. After high school, I worked on a couple of farms. One of them was owned by my uncle and then some family friends and my brother and I ran these farms, but we didn't really know anything about soil or anything. We just loved being on the

farm and cut grass and took care of the animals and built fences. Yeah. What was it about that experience that connected with you? I think being in nature and, you know, being forced into a bored state to where you actually start to see a little bit more. You know, being out there with nothing to distract you and then being able to see deeper into these interconnected things that start to kind of become these stories around you. You know, I get the same effect by watching these pigeons outside of my hotel room in New York. And there's like one particular ledge they like on this building. And I'm like, why? You know, and then it just leads to all these other things.

And I think I kind of get into that. I mean, it sounds like you have from the earliest days sort of a hyper-developed sense of observation, sort of like the ability to just kind of like find some still place and just see, almost like actively like, hey, we lived in a frenetic town because it was a resort town. So in the summer, we'd get a little crazy and the individuals that would come to town were a little, they were having their rite of passage moment

of being on vacation. And I would be like, hey mom, like that guy's trouble or that guy's gonna do this. And they would just kind of be like, oh no, no, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. You know, and kind of talk. And then something would, just a moment would explode, a fight,

or the guy would steal something. And I just would see these things as a kid, but I didn't quite have it validated until later in life that I had this, for whatever reason, this, you know, at times this awareness that I didn't quite understand. It's like a meta-awareness.

A what? Meta-awareness, or like an awareness of awareness. Like you zoom the lens out and kind of see the deeper context and the connections between things that aren't necessarily obvious. Right, exactly. I like that. Yeah. Which what a powerful skill to have as a filmmaker and as a storyteller. You know, because I mean, as we all know,

like so much of the story is is the the non like what's not actually happening on the surface but what's really going on underneath all of it right exactly it's um you know there's there's multiple streams of information and i think the most the most subtle ones are the people that people pick up on these little subtle things within these stories about the animals that we tell them in this film. They're reflecting back to us our own experience. And within that are these answers to these very profound questions that we all have and live and struggle with. If we allow sort of this fractal event of watching nature and seeing those complexities in it, I like to say that all

those answers are really sort of there right in front of us, just acting out in nature every single day. And I feel like you begin to understand the limitations that exist in our world, and you accept them because you see nature accept them and work with the flow of whatever resistance it gets. Hmm, yeah, nature is always the ultimate teacher if we pay attention. Yeah, if we pay attention. So you said you worked on the farm

for a couple of years after high school. Did you end up going to college or did you take a different path? I went to college for three months and then I went skiing in Colorado and I never went back. That sounds pretty good actually. Yeah, it seemed better. Yeah, so what ended up,

so you go from skiing Colorado, what takes you then back onto a path of filmmaking? Well, the long and short of it is I ended up moving to California and working as a production assistant on Murder, She Wrote. I worked for Bruce Lansbury, who was Angela Lansbury's brother. And they gave me my first job.

And my job was to drive Angela around to lunch and to get coffee and to organize the scripts as the changes came out, to put the new pages in all the scripts. As a good PA does. As a good PA does. And I was 22 and wondering why my talent was being wasted. to put the new pages in all the scripts. As a good PA does. As a good PA does. And I was 22 and wondering why my talent was being wasted,

but I was getting all the experience that would later help me, you know, help me later in life. Nah, I mean, from there, then what was your aspiration from that first moment? Okay, so this is just the first step in, but I kind of know where I want to go. Yeah, I knew where I wanted to go, but I didn't know what it was called. I knew I wanted to be involved in storytelling that would connect us all to this like human experience and inspire us.

Because I think I struggled with, you know, like depression and, you know, confidence issues like anyone else. As you would imagine, most artists are incredibly insecure. It's a duality between, you know, confidence and creativity constantly. So I think I struggled with all of that, you know, during that time. Yeah. How did that actually show up for you? Yeah. I just didn't know what my voice was or the value of my voice, you voice. And I wouldn't say I actually have really truly found it until about four years ago. I'm 47. I guess it was just not really knowing what my place was and feeling like I had to be something else within the business, within the industry of storytelling.

Yeah. I mean, I think not an uncommon experience, whether it's in that industry or any industry, like, you know, first finding out what is that thing. And also the big, the bigger thing is like, you know, like, what is my point of view? Right. What's my voice? What's my point of view? And how do you know until you're 40?

Right. It's like, it's such a big curiosity of mine. Cause I'm like, do you just, is there no shortcut? Do you just need to live enough of life and have experienced enough so that, you know, you've stumbled and failed and succeeded and done so many different things that eventually you just kind of narrow your way into it? Or are there some people that kind of touch down and be like, nope, I know what I think. I know how I want to express it. And they're just, I've never met that person yet. Oh, you have? Good. I'm sure you're making me sick.

I know, you're looking at me like, no, there are people like that. I'm just starting to feel good about myself, but there's people like that that have it that easy. I'm always curious to try and like find those people, if they exist, like the unicorns. And if so, like trying to figure out like, is there something you did? Or is it just like a freak of nature? You just happen to be one of these rare people that are wired that way. Yeah. So you end up sort of like navigating your way into bigger and bigger positions in the industry.

Were you more interested in TV or film? Or were you kind of agnostic in the medium and it was more about the process? It was more about the story. You know, any way i could tell the story i mean i did a series for any network which was really um came from my heart was called random one um was developed by a group of friends of mine back in baltimore and it was about us driving around a beat-up old pickup truck meeting random people in the streets not letting them know that that we were a documentary film crew, asking them for their life story, finding out the thing they hadn't done that they really wanted

to do with their life and what was the one roadblock that was preventing them, no matter how insignificant, and then making that happen for them right then and there. Letting them know it was a show, putting them in this beat up old pickup truck and taking them to meet potentially the person that could give them the opportunity or start them on this path and then follow how that seemingly insignificant introduction or hurdle being overcome changed their life later. And we would go back and document that. And it was a series. It was really cool. So I got, I started getting opportunities like that when I was like 30 and that that kind of led me to like, oh, wow, there's people for this. And this was the time when like feel fear factor was the biggest reality show on TV.

So this was like the anti-reality show. Not the most life affirming show, but it sounds like, okay, so what do we do on the other side? What's the polarity of that? Right. Were you running that? Were you, what was your job doing that? So I co-created it with my creative partner at the time, a guy named Andre. Yeah.

So we co-created and sold it to A&E and they gave us a 10 hour order and we had never done, I'd never done an hour of television, let alone 10 hours. So what's it like when A&E is like, okay, 10 hours, boom, do it. Are you happy? Are you freaking out? I was absolutely freaking out. I didn't know what to be scared of. So instead I was just scared of everything

as a cautionary sort of approach. Like, is this normal? Is this struggle normal? And so it's funny, because with farming, you start to realize that there's these rhythms in life. And in life you realize this, but in farming, it teaches you these rhythms of like,

don't flinch, just stay steady. And this too shall pass or the opportunity to live through it will appear, but panic will do nothing for you. But at that age, I just panicked. It was a difficult, it was really difficult. Yeah, it was really very difficult. Yeah.

Learned a lot from it though. It sounds like, and it sounds like you figured it out. Of that series, is there any one story that really stays with you? Yeah. One of the stories actually turned into a film called Lost in Woonsocket, which is a documentary film that's now in prisons and detox facilities all over the country. And I made it in 2006 based on that series. So it was one episode. We met these two guys, Mark and Norman, who were living in the woods of Woonsocket,

Rhode Island in a tent. And we helped the one guy get into detox. That show aired and the family of the other guy wrote us and said, that other guy that you weren't able to help was our dad, and we haven't seen him in 13 years. Will you help us? And I said, we were like, well, the whole point of the show is random. So that's not random. But then here's where your good ideas of what is helpful get in the way of what is maybe more consequentially right. And so we broke our rule and went back and found him. His name was Norman. And we showed him what Mark had done. And we got him into detox. And that was 14, almost 14 years ago. Reunited him with his kids, who he had not seen and had a very sort of abusive relationship with. But these guys were the worst of the worst. I mean, in terms of their addiction, they were the hopeless of the hopeless.

And what was incredible was which one made it and which one didn't in the end, because it just sort of adds to the complexity of this baffling disease of addiction. So that was the one that really stuck with me, because then it sent me on this journey of going into prisons and showing this film and detox facilities. And I started to learn so much about, you know, what that all was and it profoundly changed me

on a much deeper level. How so? I mean, what was the biggest shift? I think the biggest shift was, to say it simply, it would be that redemption is possible even with these guys at the lowest level to watch their family re-embrace them and to watch them take on this whole new perspective of what life could be for them and slowly kind of unravel that, that guilt that constantly was holding them back for the bad decisions of their past or the things they did when in the grips of that addiction. So I think it just, I don't know, it made me feel as a person

that, you know, the things that, you know, the decisions I've made or the things I've done are forgivable and I have a chance to right the wrongs if I just keep moving forward with the lessons that I've learned. I think it was a Oprah quote, she said, we did then what we knew how to do and when you knew better, you did better. And I always liked that

because I think we all spend so much time wallowing in the misery of like, man, why did I do that? do that why did I say that it just takes a lot of energy away from where you need to be yeah it's that I just recently wrote something about it like the um famous line um from the talking heads when you're like same as ever same as it ever was in that song um when you like he's got lines like oh my god what have I done I think so many of us have, like, say that, but like, it's not a useful thing. You know, like the more useful thing is where do I go from here?

You know, and that's the shift that I think we all sort of like sometimes struggle to make. It's like, okay, so what's done is done. Let's learn from it. But then we got to kind of close the book and like focus forward. The Apple watch series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

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Mayday, mayday, we've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were gonna be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die.

Don't shoot him! We need him! Y'all need a pilot? Flight Risk. It seems like as you're building your career, you're really drifting towards projects that allow you to tell stories, be creatively expressed, and not just any story. You're specific about what you want. I mean, clearly early on in your career,

like you kind of have to do what's going to help you along with your career like anybody does. But it sounds like the more developed you are and the further you get into it, you're choosing things and you're creating things that really show a side of human condition, which is powerful and connecting rather than separating. Yeah. It's hard to analyze your own creative reasonings and career in that way,

but I do think there's something in it that I'm constantly trying to be reaffirmed that I'm not alone in my own fears and self-doubt, and I'm not alone in this thing of wanting to connect and find my community and my purpose. So I think through these stories, I often find myself being drawn by that, I guess, in some way. So the way that we got connected is through a mutual friend, Sherry Salata, who is the former head of OWN, spent 20-something years working with Oprah, where you ended up doing some interesting work with done with it. It was 2009. And, you know, it was a tough year for all filmmakers, anyone trying to sell anything. The economy was nothing and documentaries were definitely not on the top of the list. And I really wanted to reconnect with, like with nature and farming was something we were both really inspired by. And so I left the

business, but then I started, I got this call from the Oprah Winfrey Network one of the producers there and they said look we saw this film lost in Woonsocket and we want to license this film for this series called Super Soul Sunday it's a you know it would run as a documentary after one of her interviews and I was like oh my gosh great you know where were you guys five years ago and they said oh and we'd also like you to make a little short five-minute piece that updates us on like where these you guys five years ago? And they said, oh, and we'd also like you to make a little short five minute piece that updates us on like where these two guys are today.

And so I did that. And then they saw that piece and they said, hey, we'd love you to like do regular pieces, you know, for the show about other people. And I was like, well, I mean, I'm, you know, I don't know how much time I have in my life for that, but it's really interesting. So let me try. And I did like two and they went well, but I was like, I can't do this anymore. Like I've completely changed my life. They're like, well, what are you doing? And I said,

well, my wife and I started this farm and I'm like, well, why don't you make one about the farm? And I was like, oh boy, you got me. Cause I'm really passionate about this farm. What a great opportunity. So I made a short about the farm. And that ran at the end of the Super Soul Sunday interview that she does. And then that one was probably the one that started off this whole thing where I started telling these stories about these animals on the farm. And drawing out sort of the observations about the interconnectedness of our human experience to the journey of these animals within our ecosystem. And Sherry was a big part of that, really sort of supporting that. And obviously Oprah was someone

who made it really easy for me to do these because they didn't require me to pitch them ideas. I just would send them whatever I did because I really didn't want to get into this back and forth of trying to fight my way into storytelling anymore. And I just said, how about this? You don't even have to pay me if you don't like it. I'll just send them. And if you like it, air it. And that relationship ended up creating this thing where I was so much more confident about my voice because it wasn't being overanalyzed and overproduced before I got the chance to put it on film.

Yeah. It's like you were doing it for you. And if somebody else wanted it, great. And if not, that's great too. Purely. Yeah. What a difference that makes for so many people, I think, that moment. And you're not to toot my horn, but this is what's crazy for me. I didn't receive a lot of awards through my film career, but in the time that I did those shorts, I got nominated for eight Emmys and won five. And so that's not validation.

Like I'm onto something. I was like, what is happening? I told you I quit the business. Now I get to do these things. I'm not even having to pitch. They're just supporting my wishes here and encouraging it. And then it's being seen and being, these things. I'm not even having to pitch. They're just supporting my wishes here and encouraging it. And then it's being seen and being, what is, I mean, what is happening? How

did I not miss? Why didn't I do this when I was 20? But of course we all know that's not how it works. Right. You can't turn that page back. You mentioned two things that we need to dive into. One is Molly and one is the farm. Tell me about Molly. Okay. So Molly is the, she is the muse, the positive creative force behind what we've built with April Kotling Farms. It was always her dream. We met actually in the, in the business that she spent a very short time in. She was also in Random One, this TV series. What was she doing on this? She was a producer, but also on screen as one of the people trying to help facilitate these events or this moment for this person that we would meet

randomly. But that wasn't her passion. Her passion was always food, food and how food affects the body. And as a young woman, she was the kid who repacked her lunch after her mom packed it with healthier options because she noticed the way food affected the way she felt. I didn't have that skill until I was 38. I'm still working on that skill. I'm like, oh, there's a connection. Molly had that connection at age, I don't know, eight. And so she went to the Natural Gourmet Institute

here in New York, 2004, 2005, somewhere around that time. And that led her to really understanding how important it is with the way that food is grown and that, you know, the nutrient density of food is informed through this whole process of how you regenerate or build or manage your soil. So Molly really, in 2008, we talked a lot about getting out of LA because we were living there and the farming idea started to come up. The more we realized that there were no farms serving the LA community that were really focused on soil. They were organic, but they really weren't focused on soil regeneration, nutrient density, you know, creating a mineral-based sort of, you know, product from this regenerative sort of idea. And so we went out with that really based on what Molly was really interested in. And I just was along for the ride, interested in it, love the environmental collaboration with nature as a part of this whole process, but it was the driving force of food from Molly. Yeah, and not to also skip the fact

that there's a love story happening in here too. Yes, well, I love my wife and I tend to wanna make her happy because when she's happy, the whole world is happy. She's a very, her smile can light up the room. And she's the one that gave me this gift too of like the power of food and, you know, very gently would offer things. Well, you know, you could just do this instead of this and see how that makes you feel. She was very gentle with it. But I was a

convert, you know, after changing my diet, you know, just simply just eating more clean and more whole food based foods. Anyway, so yeah, I owe a lot to her in that. But yeah, it's not easy though, just starting a project like this with the person you love. It took us to a very, very, very dark place through this process in starting a business together. Was there something, I mean, you mentioned that,

like the end of 2008, 2009, the bottom kind of dropped out of a lot of industries, but the entertainment industry in a big way, especially on the doc side. Right. Was that sort of the primary thing that just pushed you guys over the edge saying you had to do this? Or was there something else going on where you both came together and said, okay, it's time for us to make this really big shift? Well, I started getting a lot of offers for other TV series and films, documentary films. And they weren't the kinds of things I wanted to make. And I was like, how did I get here?

It was a great blessing to be offered these things, but they were not gonna make me happy. I was having a hard time finding purpose in the storytelling. And Molly was continually getting great clients, but clients that didn't really want the full capacity of what she could offer in terms of her sort of traditional foods understanding. Was it chef clients? Yeah, she was a private chef.

She was a private chef in LA. I failed to mention that. And then she got it. It was really great. She was a less experienced chef than a lot of the chefs that were private chefing for some of these clients. But she was then the one that would train these other chefs how to cook in this way and understanding the sourcing and fermenting and, you know, krauts and all the different sort of methods of food preparation and sourcing, like O'Hare said that. So it just wasn't really going, it just wasn't going well for either of us in that we weren't really connected to the thing we loved. And what we could connect around was like this idea of like this farm that would be

collaborative with the ecosystem and, you know, work in harmony with nature. Although I was skeptical way more than her, it sounded great if we could make it real. Yeah. So when you take this idea and you start to share it with friends, what do they think? Oh, everyone thought we were crazy. They're like, well, you know, you're a filmmaker. You've been doing that since you were like 18 years old. How are you going to be happy? And what are you and Molly really know about farms? And, you know, no one really understood. I mean, even our best friends were like, I think, cautious about how encouraging they were. I think they knew that we were serious. And I think that was probably scary,

but it only took her, her brother believing in it enough to say, you know, Hey, he knew a person that that's been actually looking to invest in a farm in California and might be interested in this. And that, you know, that changed everything everything so where do you go from there we had someone that believed in us to the degree that made us a little bit scared about whether or not he really understood what we were talking about but he knew exactly what we were talking about it was just a very rare chance to find someone that was like saw the vision of what we were proposing and knew that this was in his words this is 10 years out maybe 15 but i see it coming this is what this is where we're going as a culture you know we're we're going to need this. Yeah. In that visioning stage, what was the vision and what was the real deeper why?

Good question. I'll try to answer it. Everything that we are, if you look at the gut microbiome as the, as it, as translating to your connection and mood and perspective, people talk about being foggy to people talk about being depressed, but there's this whole mind gut connection. If you really allow yourself to understand that that is a real thing the micro the gut microbiome is connected directly to your mind so what you eat is actually affecting the way you feel and that feeling can affect the way you see

the world you start to then understand that the food that you're putting in your gut is informed by this complex microorganism world beneath the soil. And when that is active in the right way, it's providing the diversity of nutrients that you need that affect all of that. So we were really interested in like, well, what does that whole world look like to even live inside? What does it look like to live inside the engine of a farm that is taking all that into consideration, focused on the soil, but what comes from that? And it's really quite profoundly everything. The health of the animals, the health of the people, the aesthetic arrest that constantly happens. James Joyce talks about that. And that is a feedback loop that is impossible to describe

if you haven't lived on a farm like this, you know, for a period of six months to watch those rhythms. So we just, that idea just felt amazing if it was as true as we had read. In the magazines, in the books. In the magazines, in the books. In the books, tons of books, lots of different mentors. Right, because I mean, okay, so yes, you had a short amount of time on a farm growing up, but you certainly weren't a farmer. And it's not like you're coming into this with really meaningful experience. And this is a massive challenge. So you get somebody who's like, okay,

so I'm willing to invest in this and potentially provide some funding to help make it real and with a long-term perspective, which is amazing. Like you've got your unicorn on that side. Yeah. Right. But then like, you know, you and Molly have passion. How do you go from passion to knowing how to do it well that was a big question you know molly spent a lot of time talking with local like consultants and this they're not bad people

they just don't have the perspective or the lens that molly had at the time and they were always like talking her out of it and so so she's like, we gotta go, I gotta find someone that can mentor us. And we found this guy named Alan York, who was a really well-known, both biodynamic and sort of holistic farming consultant, mainly in the wine world, like Chile and South Africa and France,

all these amazing vineyards use this guy that were farming in this way. And so we called him up and he was like, you don't want anything to do with this way of farming. It's way too complicated. It takes too many years to really get it right and see the difference. And if you're an investor

and you guys aren't like down for that, it's just not something you're gonna be interested in. She called him back again. She's like, well, just come down. And he the difference. And if you're an investor and you guys aren't like down for that, it's just not something you're going to be interested in. She called him back again. She's like, well, just come down. And he denied her again. He's like, I'm telling you, he's like, I just, I'll be honest. Like I'm doing it with vineyards, but to do what you're talking about is going to take a whole nother level of commitment. And she's like, just come down and just meet us. And so he did, it was all like this. And he showed up wearing all linen and these sandals and a linen shirt, linen pants. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is our farming consultant.

He's out there with a pitchfork telling us our soil was dead and can't never see. So you had already bought the property at this point. Oh yeah. Okay. Oh, we were in, yeah. So you're in. Yeah, take naive and like put a stamp on our head

and we were gusto on. Right, so like you have this piece of property and he hears like the leading voice in the world saying, just don't do it. Oh yeah, he's like, don't, yeah, because you don't want anything to do with this. And then he saw the property and he's like, this is a lot worse than I thought.

You don't have soil, you have sand and clay. And this is 35 years of extractive farming maybe 45 of an extractive method where they have robbed all the nutrients from this soil they've robbed the soil's ability to do its thing and now you're asking us to open this bank with no money we have to put the money back in the bank. So in other words, we got to get this soil working again. And I had no idea what that meant, but he just, but that was the process. And I mean, I can go into that, but the thing that Alan did was he said, you know, our goal is to create the highest level of biodiversity possible.

And he explained that diversity, biological diversity is an ecosystem's way to regulate itself against pests and disease. But that means you have to bring this stuff back to the farm. You have to bring, you know, animals. We brought, you know, cows, sheep, pigs, chickens. I mean, you don't need all of that, but cows are important part of that cycling process.

And then the diversity in the plant crops. She's like, you can't just plant avocados and lemons. You have to have a lot of different things. And let's figure out what grows better here than lemons and avocados. And so there was this massive experimentation. And once he got into it, he and Molly went nuts. I mean, they planted in one block of 20 acres, they planted 75 varieties of stone fruit trees.

And I said to Alan, I said, Alan, this feels difficult because each one of these things is gonna need a little something different. I mean, don't you think this is nuts? He goes, nuts? He goes, this is the craziest thing I've ever done in my life. I was like, that's your answer?

Yeah, so that's how it all started. So we were in before we knew it. It was just like, well, you need this, and then you need this, and then you need this, because this will help this offset that. And you start to get into it. And before you know it, you're now, you've got yourself a three ring circus

in collaboration with something that doesn't wanna collaborate. Yeah, it sounds got yourself a three ring circus in collaboration with something that doesn't want to collaborate. Yeah. It sounds more like an infinite ring circus. Yeah. What was it that made, cause he shows up and already he's like, no, just don't do it. And then he shows up and he's like, this is so much worse than I even thought it was. What happens that makes him say yes at that point? Molly. I think you can't say no to Molly. You know, she, he, he just immediately fell for her enthusiasm and optimism. And deep down inside what he realized, what he relayed to us later was this was, he had always dreamed of being able to do what he did for vineyards on a farm like this, that he never thought in his lifetime

that he would be able to get the chance at what we were proposing. So this was like, so almost like a legacy thing for him too. Absolutely, yeah. And I don't wanna give anything too much, I don't wanna give too much away, but something happened about a year and a half into our relationship with him that uh

set us out on our own mayday mayday we've been compromised the pilot's a hitman i knew you were gonna be fun on january 24th tell me how to fly this thing mark walberg you know what the difference between me and you you're gonna die don't shoot if we him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever,

making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. You're in this i mean um you start to go into it and you start you're bringing in basically transforming this land in a powerful way um and as you're doing it you're bringing

animals you're bringing in all varieties of plants planting cover crops being the main thing covering the soil right and doing things that you never imagined doing i'm guessing like before you started when you think you thought it would be very different. Absolutely. As you're sort of like, you know, going through this, are there moments along the way where you're thinking to yourself, no, like, how proud am I that we pushed it this far, but we just, we're done. Like, this is it. Well, we're doing this with this intention of good, right? We think we're trying to make it healthier for, more humane for animals, better for the environment, you know, better for the ecosystem, better for the soil,

better for the people that work on farms. And what we were watching is that there was animals, there were animals that were sick and almost dying. And we were not protected against these trials just because our intent was good. And so not really knowing if this was the right thing was incredibly lonely because when you would ask for help in those crises like the real

dark moments of with an animal or with a crop or pest disease the conventional wisdom is like why did you guys not do this why did you guys not do this conventional idea or this conventional idea meaning like spraying or pesticides right synthetically just derive pesticide or, or yeah, using antibiotics preemptively even at times. And so there's this dark moment of embarrassment and fear, but I would say embarrassment is a really weird thing because when you're in that moment, I would say it's probably more than fear. It's the embarrassment that really takes away your confidence. Like you just, how did I, I must look like the idiot that I feel like I am. But the more comfortable we got with living within those moments, we were able to connect to the other side and find these alternative and innovative ways to get through these things that had a more collaborative integrated connection to nature where the solutions were there but if we weren't able to go through those dark periods we would have never

found some of those but yeah there that whole process was a big part of the two and three year mark with the farm yeah is there i mean as you're doing this, because also, you know, like it sounds like this is not the type of thing where you're like, okay, 9 a.m. I'm clocking in, 5 p.m. I'm clocking out and hey, Molly, let's go drive somewhere for the weekend. We didn't, we haven't left, we just left the farm really for the first time in eight years. Like this year, we started leaving and being able to go away for a week. But yeah, we didn't realize how 24 seven it was. I mean, and then there's lambing season, there's, you know, we're farrowing pigs, you know, calving, raising ducklings, hatching chicks. I mean, it's fighting different pest issues that we didn't even know existed,

dealing with coyotes, killing all of our chickens. We lost 350 chickens to coyotes. There's 24 seven. I worked, I would say in the last eight years, I've worked harder in the last eight years than I ever did as a filmmaker. And I thought filmmaking was sometimes too difficult, but there's, at least in this,

there's something that's a little bit more profoundly enriching and has a deeper meaning if you allow yourself to really see it. Because its reward system is a feedback loop that is only given to you through the aesthetics. Tell me more about that. Like I said it earlier, aesthetic arrest was something something that a term that i'd heard used and he was james joyce and what i understand that to be is like being profoundly claimed by something where you see it you don't have to own it you don't have to be involved in it but suddenly you see this beauty that in a snapshot is a way for you to see

how everything is kind of connected together in this web. At least that's what it means to me, that I was starting to be able to look out and see, I know the story behind that. I know the story behind that egg right there that's in that plant, because that's the egg of a ladybug that's being laid right next to strategically the food of the

ladybug, the aphid. And I know that that ladybug laid those eggs there. And I know that the ladybug now exists on this farm because we planted the cover crop that allows that ladybug, the habitat to winter over here and be ready for the aphids. And I know that that process will interrupt the relationship between the aphid and the ant, because the ant is the protector of the aphid. And the eggs being right there will make it more difficult for that ant to stop what's about to happen. And now I don't have to spray for that. And you're seeing all these things happen through this observation of the aesthetics, but they're all very beautiful.

So if you're keeping in mind beauty as sort of the leading indicator of what you should do when you don't know what to do, cultivate beauty. Because in your most difficult times, you at least have that. So like when I pick a cow, it may not have been the right cow for the farm, but I picked Scottish Highlands.

And I thought to myself, well, at least when I'm dealing with mastitis from a mom who continually gets mastitis, I'll go out every day and at least be in love with the way this cow looks and its majestic beauty. And that'll make it a little bit easier. But if we simply only look at things through the lens of how it's going to profit, how it's going to pan out in two to three years,

we'll grow very tired very quickly because we're not constantly driving this aesthetic beauty that is in our DNA to be around it. People want to be in beauty for some reason. Yeah, no, it's actually really, I mean, it's fascinating because it's, you're weaving the story of like the, these two parts of you, like the farmer and the deep interest in biodiversity again, back with this aesthetic sensibility and, and the lens of a storyteller and a maker. But it's almost like you're, you're playing God from the point of a storyteller and a maker. But it's almost like you're playing God from the point of creation,

but from that point forward, you have zero control. Yeah. It's like, then you're just like, okay, so I put this thing together. Like I planted the seed, but now I am entirely at the mercy of like, you know, like there's a world that I have created to a certain extent,

which requires a certain amount of intentionality, but also, I mean, it sounds like a vastly larger amount of surrender. It's a really good point. Now, Joel Salatin, I heard him say this once. It's actually in the film partially, but there's one thing that I left off and I'm regretful that I did because it's to your point.

The process of farming should be looked at like this. Observation followed by creativity, followed by humility. In that you observe the process, the problem, you work creatively to try to fix it. And when it fails, you have within you the humility to know that you made the mistake and you start over again. If you lack the humility, you miss the opportunity to go deeper into the complex problem and find an even more innovative way to fix it.

And so I think what I know now for sure after eight years of farming is that I know absolutely nothing for sure. And I'm okay with that because the rhythm of nature changes. Biology is constantly in flux. I mean, the North Pole, North is changing. I don't know how many miles every year. If North is changing, everything around us is in a constant state of evolution.

So how can we ever know for sure? I don't know for sure whether or not what Molly and I are doing will work forever. Each one of the methods will constantly have to be reevaluated. And I love how that keeps us humble, but it also kind of makes it okay to not know and to not be an expert. Yeah. Yeah, which also means letting go of, you know, when you think back to the original vision, it's like, this is what we're creating, and this is what it's going to look like, and this is what it's going to feel like, and this is the defined outcome.

To a certain extent, it sounds like the last eight years have taught you, we're going to tell you what that defined outcome is or isn't. It really doesn't matter what you had on the piece of paper on day one. Exactly. And even better is that I think the ultimate, where we are now is that, you know, it's a comfortable level of disharmony. And that's actually, you know, what it is to be in collaboration with nature i i like to say nature doesn't have it doesn't see the world through right and wrong it only sees it through consequences

and if you really sit back and think about that before you judge the statement it's true because we can justify right and wrong all day long with words. I mean, our judicial system is the interpretation of truth, right? As evidence is presented before us with that limitation, but consequentially, what happens with those decisions of right and wrong is really the truth. And I love how nature reminds you that although you may think what you're doing is right or wrong, it will show you after a few years whether or not that was a decision that makes it more of a hospitable place or less for you. You know, and that's the lesson I actually learned from the coyote, which is talked about in the film. You'd asked me at one point, you know, maybe what was the motivating force behind making the

film? And, you know, I think I've looked at how all these different films about the environment have been made and that, you know, um, inconvenient truth or, um, chasing ice or, um, they're all made from a position of like fear and be afraid of losing this. And I, and I don't think people respond to that. At least that's not what I'm seeing. I mean, a certain section of the population will, but they become polarizing in a way. And I read this quote by Wendell Berry. It's actually a book title too.

It all turns on affection. And what I think he means by that is that we can do a lot of things in life, but if we really want to change the way people act, we have to find a way to connect to the thing they love, or more importantly, find a way to connect them to love something. And this film for me was not about trying to scare people into the obvious dangers and perils of our time environmentally, but to give them a chance to fall in love with nature on such a deep level

that they will do anything in their power to protect it. Like you would a child that you love. You know that child deeply. And the day that they take your car out and drive it maybe into the garage of your house, the deep love for that child allows you to see beyond that one mishap. And you know the potential exists in that child to improve and to grow beyond that. And we have to see that same potential in nature because it's a very temperamental child. And it will always give us reasons to want to try to confine it, put it in a straitjacket, and control it.

But when you love it deeply enough, because you're able to see it, suddenly you will see a level of opportunity in nature that you never knew existed. And so to me, I made the film because it all turns on affection. And I just wanted to honor that insight that I got from Wendell Berry. So when you look at what you've created,

at what point, you know, you're all in on the farm, you're getting this interesting opportunity kind of around the early days also to do some work with Oprah and with that network. What makes you then want to say, okay, you know, let's actually go all in on a documentary about what we're doing here with the farm like what's the why behind that well the whole time i had interns that were we we work with this program called wolf worldwide opportunity on organic farms we got these volunteers from all over the world and it's an organization you can belong to as a farm and then people can apply to volunteer on your farm so we really the over the first couple of years,

we had like two full-time guys. And then the rest were volunteers that lived with us on the farm. Most of them in their 20s to early 30s. They were helping me film stuff. Mallory and Kyle and a bunch of other ones. A guy named Andre from South Africa. And they were filming little things along the way. And I really didn't know if we'd ever use any from South Africa. And they were filming little things

along the way. And I really didn't know if we'd ever use any of this stuff. And I was filming some stuff, but it wasn't really serious about it because I didn't know if making a film about this was going to do anyone any good because I didn't want people to run off the cliff and think, oh, because I knew I could make it look beautiful and sexy and fun and exhilarating. But I'm like, I wanted to really tell the truth because, and I didn't want exhilarating. But I'm like, I wanted to really tell the truth because, and I didn't want to tell the truth if it was terrible, because that would be a terrible film to watch. So I kind of just kept an eye on things and I would photograph or video things that, you know, were in transition. And as I would start to see little stories appear,

I just kept track of it. The Oprah pieces helped me stay on it a little bit more professionally. So I had this data, this bank of footage and stories. Then around year four and five, something happened. This really profound return of nature. The problem solving started coming from just simply making sure that our habitat was there so that wildlife, predator species of insects were there to eat the pests. And once I started to see that sort of symbiosis and that mutualistic sort of relationship development, I knew that I had

to go back and make sure that I had all the components of a story to tell what happened over this epic eight-year, what ultimately ended up becoming an eight-year period. So it was around year five that I got very serious about it and started going through the thousands of hours of footage with an editor and really sort of nailing down what we did with the film, which is, like I said, an eight-year journey. Yeah. And it's amazing too, because it's almost like, in the beginning you weren't shooting because you were making a film. And you're just like, let's document this and see if it actually becomes something, which is a compelling story to tell.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But if we have it documented, we can kind of, so like it didn't actually become a film. In the beginning, it's like you were archiving. That's it, yeah. Maybe it would get used, maybe not. Out of guilt, because I would like, I always hate when I, why didn't I shoot that?

So I had enough of that experience. Right, and it's like, and there was this turning point where you're like, oh no, like this actually is something bigger. It's a story that needs to be told. I'm so happy that I captured this. And now it's time to actually bring it full circle. Yes, and that was a scary moment,

but I just declared that it's time. I got to tell this story. Yeah. I had the confidence at least to know that there was something that we had done and captured enough of. Yeah. I mean, but I mean, if you're already,

you know, it's you and Molly, two full-timers and a bunch of interns working in say now or seven days a week already, how do you take that and then say i'm gonna make a documentary too and and not just you know like a little like a stunningly beautiful cinematic graphic you know like beautifully edited and produced documentary which alone i mean i have friends that have done that and that alone and that process has consumed their lives. Yeah. Then I brought in professionals. Got it.

Like the last two years, I got a producer named Sandra Keats who was trying to quit the film business to go move to a farm. She came out for an interview and she decided to move to our farm. I had an editor I'd worked with named Amy Overbeck and Joy Keck and another amazing producer

who helped me sort of break the story and, uh, brought a couple other professional, um, you know, cinematographers in when we needed them still worked with interns and really made it go. It was incredibly difficult. It was really hard on the farm. I, you know, my farm team needed Molly's and my vision and needed us there. And I was very sort of torn. Sometimes I was, a lot of times I was in the editing room and which was in a barn.

And so the farm took a hit for about a year and a half, at least for sure, while that process was going through the finishing. And then we were shooting a lot of very technically difficult things to shoot. The hatching of certain things, the capturing of these moments

between certain insects or animals, wildlife and or livestock. So it just, I did bring professionals in at the end, but it was nothing without those first four, five years. Yeah. I mean, as for that last year and a half, when you are increasingly aware of the fact that, yeah, the farm is taking a hit in the name of doing this one thing, how's that affecting you? I mean, is that weighing on you at all? There's definitely a lot of guilt because a lot was being taken on by Molly and the team. I think there was this definite support from Molly and she knew that this was the right thing to do, but I think it was also really hard.

But I also had this feeling that like this obligation that I feel like if I don't tell this story in the way that I know how to tell it, I know no one will ever probably do it like this again, because when will there be a filmmaker, storyteller who goes and lives on a farm for eight years and lives inside the engine of the, essentially the ecosystem of his story and his farm. And I knew the missing visualizations that people had never seen to try to understand how it's all connected together. I knew that people would never take the time to do that. I mean, we took years just to shoot relationships with things that last three, four seconds on the screen,

but they're so important to the story. And so there was a definite pulling. It was very difficult on Molly and I too as a couple. Yeah, that was another curiosity. I mean, because partners in life, becoming partners in work, even in the most straightforward job or company is very often, you know, it can be challenging.

Add that to a farm environment where it's 24 seven, constant uncertainty, like that just ramps up the sort of the intensity of how it can either forge or destroy a relationship. And then adds really the layer of producing and telling the story about it on top of that. I mean, how did this whole process, how did it affect both of you

and the relationship that you had? I mean, I had a kid, our son, Bodhi. Oh yeah, and that. Yes, and a child through all this. During the worst times, there's some pretty big tragedies on the farm that you'll see in the film, the loss of some people and some important pets.

Molly and I definitely got to, I think a breaking point with this. And I think it's as honest as I've wanted to be about the struggle of what it means to live inside this utopia that could be so misunderstood. And meaning I don't want to give the wrong impression. I've never, even in the story that this is an easy life, it would also be disingenuous to not tell people the truth that Molly and I are in couples therapy full-time for two years. And I went into it feeling like, oh man, it's gonna be revealed that it's all me,

that I'm the problem. And I'm so glad to say that he is 100% sure it's 100% Molly. So this has been a really, no, it's just the opposite, but it has been, it's been amazing. And it's helped me and us obviously stay together this long and really understand what it means to be a couple that needs each other, that really needs to rely on each other

and needs to speak to each other in that way. And how much it's helped us shape the you know, the direction of our farm. And, you know, we're still a long way from it, but getting even better at building the immunity of the culture. Like we spent so much time building the immune system of our farm, reestablishing this self-regulating immune system.

Now the goal is we've have all these wonderful farmers who work with us on our farm. They're all farmers and they all handle a different part. And the only thing that could break us now would be an inability to communicate in a way that is constantly moving us forward. So the next level of immune system to build is the way we communicate.

And Molly and I have had to start with us. And so it's just been an incredible thing to have. And I often say we have a, we have a couples therapist who I'm sure with as long as we've been there can now buy a summer home so that Molly and I can live in one home, which makes sense, but you have to think about it just the way you do. It's how the ecosystem works. Yeah. You have to go for the indirect. Speaking of ecosystems, this feels like a good place for us to come full circle as well. So if I offer the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? Follow what is meaningful to you.

And the vast crevasse that will ultimately be required for you to cross will not be the thing that kills you. Thank you. Thank you. It's been great. it. If you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at sparkotype.com. That's S-P-A-R-K-E-T-Y-P-E.com. Or just click the link in the show notes. And of course, if you haven't already done so, be sure to click on the subscribe

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