Good Life Project - Think Grow Prosper: How Ruben Chavez Turned Struggle Into Success

Episode Date: August 14, 2016

Facing a tough period in his life, this week's guest, Ruben Chavez, turned to books to both reconnect with curiosity and rekindle the spark of possibility. As he read, he began to take voracious notes, and write down quotes he connected with. Around the same time, he discovered Instagram. So, he began sharing bite-sized wisdom distilled from his favorite books on his ThinkGrowProsper Instagram account.People took notice and a community began to form. That community has now grown to more than two million people around the world, and allowed Ruben to build a business and his career around his passion for learning and sharing wisdom, and work with everyone from authors to large brands along the way.We cover a lot of ground in this conversation as Ruben shares his backstory, his deeper motivation for growth, the steps leading to the popularity of his account, and the opportunities and lessons that came with it. We discuss the reluctance many of us feel when sharing our imperfect, in-progress work with the world -- a fear that Ruben debunks by trusting in the compassion and encouragement of community.Ruben also touches on the importance of considering your desired lifestyle when weighing career opportunities. In his experience, one can live an equally fulfilling life with less than you might think -- and sometimes, even more so.Mentioned in This Episode:Connect with Ruben: ThinkGrowProsper | Instagram | MotivationMafiaThink and Grow Rich by Napoleon HillShow Your Work!: 10 Ways to Share Your Creativity and Get Discovered by Austin KleonHow to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale CarnegieTim Ferriss - Solopreneur Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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It's all happening at the end of August, just about 90 minutes from New York City, and we're well on our way to selling out spots at this point. So be sure to grab your spot as soon as you can if it's interesting to you. You can learn more at goodlifeproject.com slash camp, or just go ahead and click the link in the show notes now. It's more important to me to not have stress than it is to make a few thousand more dollars. So today's guest, Ruben Chavez, did what he often does when, and what many of us often do, when actually we're going through times of struggle. We turn to books to learn from the teachers and the seekers who've gone before us and to dive into their wisdom. And he was going through a particularly rough time. So we started to do that. And at the same time, he kind of stumbled upon

this app, Instagram, many of you I'm sure know it. And he used it first just privately to catalog the thoughts, the ideas that he was seeing so that he kind of collect them in one place and add a little bit of a visual element to reflect on them. He decided at a certain point to turn that account public. And what happened was pretty stunning. Within a matter of a few short years, the following on that account grew to over a million people. As I record this, it's about 1.7 million people. And he's also added other accounts as well. And then turned around and actually found a way to turn his love of growing and reading and learning into a venture that allows him to live very comfortably in the world. So how he actually did that, the journey behind it,

why he became deeply fascinated in it, and how he's built community and the idea of leveraging something as simple as an app to actually grow a company and then make a sustainable living while doing something you really enjoy and that fills you up and you would have done anyway. I think it's a really interesting conversation. So we go deep into that. Ruben's primary account, by the way, is Think, Grow, Prosper, if you want to go check out what he does. Excited to share this with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. So it's really fun to be hanging out with you because you first came onto my radar, I'm sure the way that you first come onto millions of people's radar at this point,

which is I'm hanging out on Instagram one day. And I'm like, huh, this is an interesting account. And this is actually probably I was pretty new to Instagram at the time. And I'm thinking Instagram, it's just like another stupid waste of time. And then I see a friend of mine, Jada Selner, who's literally built this company, you'd call it into a substantial business called Simple Green Smoothies, largely starting on Instagram. And I got really curious about it. So then I got really curious about you and your account. And then we had a conversation. And so I'm excited to just kind of sit down and get into your backstory a little bit.

Yeah, me too. I'm really pumped to be here. So we're hanging out in Good Life Project HQ right now. But you're not from here. I'm not. I'm from the sunny Tucson, Arizona. Is that where you were born and bred? Yeah, I was born there. And I've lived in California. I lived in New Mexico. I actually

lived in New York City for a bit. I don't think I told you, but I have lived there for like three months. I was 20 years old. I wanted to, I just moved randomly and I ran out of money very quickly. Which tends to happen in New York. Yeah. I did not know what I was doing and I came back home, but it was a good experience. Yeah. I did not know what I was doing and I came back home, but it was a good experience. Yeah. Learning experience for sure. What made you want to actually explore New York in the first place? Honestly, it was just a whim and it was just, it was kind of something that at the time,

I think at the time I was going through some weird emotional things and kind of figuring out who I was and I was kind of running away from some things, I think. But I realized that it didn't really help me. All right. So we can't just leave that hanging. Well, it wasn't anything too dramatic. It was just your typical like almost teenager issues. Who am I?

You know, I just turned 20. And so I was like, who am I? What am I doing like with my life you know what's my what's my career you know those kind of big questions existential crisis right and i thought that i could find something and if i if i went to new york i'd find something immediately someone would come up to me and discover me of course but that didn't happen that you know it's amazing how how often and how many times this has been my thought pattern also we're like well if we go

like the the thing that we like that will make us okay is if we go somewhere else and we'll find it there you know and then we get there and we're like wait i'm still me exactly in another place yeah i think um it's pima children has a really good quote about that and i will butcher it but it's probably it's something like ah you know i it's basically the problem will continue to present itself and like the lesson will continue to present as long as there's something to continue to be right until you learn we can run a thousand miles in one direction away from the problem and it'll keep coming back in different forms and different manifestations until we kind of figure out how to deal with that problem which is a really cool lesson yeah and interestingly like do you think you could have been told don't go or do you think you would you just had to do

it absolutely not yeah i had to do it and i really feel like that's a really powerful way to learn anything truthfully i mean it's it's so interesting because like i just observe parents for instance it's really parents and children is a really interesting dynamic for me to observe i don't have children but i was a child and i it's just you know you try to teach your kids one thing and and don't do that because of this but ultimately they just have to learn for themselves. And that's the most powerful way to learn. I've just figured out. That's just kind of one example. But just in general, I think people learn by doing.

Yeah, I think that's definitely, that's about the only thing that's worked for me. And I know as a parent, it doesn't matter what I say. You know, it's all about, but I think also, and it's interesting, right? Because as a parent, I catch myself doing something that I think we also do to ourselves, which is

I'm constantly trying to balance allowing my daughter the space to make mistakes. Thinking in the back of my mind, this is going to be a big mistake, but still saying I can't, it's better for me not to stop it from happening and just let it happen and let that be part of life's experience. And then let her figure out how to recover from

that. And because then like the sense of confidence that comes from stumbling and then figuring out how to come back, I think it's so much more important than protecting herself. Yeah, there's definitely something to be said about that. I think there's something to be said about, I've heard it said, wealth skips a generation. Oh, really? Yeah, and I think it's the idea of like, well, you have parents who are very well off, and then the kids maybe don't have to learn a lot of things for themselves. I mean, this is obviously an overgeneralization, but in some cases, you know,

the kids maybe don't have to come up like their parents did. And then so it, you know, that cycle kind of stops, but then the next generation picks it back up again. So yeah, learning how to do things yourself and really kind of picking yourself up by the bootstraps, that is certainly a fundamental key to success in a lot of things. Yeah. All right. Which makes me want to ask the question, so what kind of a kid were you?

It's funny because I was, I was not a rebellious kid and I wasn't anything like my – I was the good kid. That was my role. I really was. Your brother and sister? My brother was a rebellious kid. My brother, when he was little, he said – it's kind of a running gag in my family. When he was little, he said, I just want to grow up so I can get tattoos, curse, and smoke. It's like that's your aspiration that was and he has accomplished that he's an accomplished guy he's he's he's a really good guy but that's not all he's accomplished but he has accomplished

those things so it's funny but i i just i've always been kind of the good kid and not rebellious in in a sense i mean that i think in the traditional sense of rebellion, you know, I was well behaved. But at the same time, I've always been very kind of like questioning things and kind of questioning, why do we do this? I remember clearly, this is kind of a very random thought that I'm having right now. But I remember very clearly sitting in the car looking out the window, we're driving with my parents somewhere, I was probably around 10, 12 years old, maybe younger. And I just asked a very innocent, very pure question. And it was something to the effect of, why do we go to work?

And I didn't ask it with any pretense or anything like that. I just, you know, I was, it's interesting to actually think back on my state at the time. And I was just asking, why do we go to work? Like, just to like, do stuff and then go back to work just to sustain ourselves? I didn't use the word sustain, but that was the essence of my question. And my parents were like, yeah, you go to work and, you know, you get money to buy things and to, you know, keep living. And it was just a very interesting, it was just at the time, you know, I hadn't worked at the time and it was just something that I was observing. And of course, that has carried out into different existential questions for me

and something that I address also sometimes in my Instagram account. Yeah. What's really interesting to me about that, though, is that questions like that are on your mind at that age, which is unusual. Yeah. Yeah. I think it has been in, that kind of is part of the rebellious nature that I was referring to. I've always kind of questioned things and not wanted to take a traditional path in many cases. So yeah. So it's like the philosopher kid. Yeah. Right. I mean, I wasn't- Were you quiet? Were you sort of like a quiet and introspective or contemplative kid? I was.

I was more quiet and introspective. I mean, I had friends. I didn't have trouble making friends, but I was never like, I guess, the life of the party, so to speak. But I had a great childhood and it was good. It was good. Yeah. And I want to fill in a whole bunch of gaps, but the question just popped into my head

is when you come from a place, because I'm wired more as an introvert myself, which again, like, and I've talked about this so many times now on the shows, does not mean you're antisocial. Right. It just means that you sort of like being around huge numbers of people actually empties you rather than fills you. Exactly. on large numbers of people for a short time and like a small number of people who I love to just, but what's interesting too, is that you're, you've essentially now moved into, and again, we'll, we'll fill in this journey, but what popped into my head is that you're now in this position where you've let, you literally got the attention of millions of people. So you become effectively a leader to millions of people. How does that sit with sort of your just innate social wiring? I'm curious.

That's a great question. Even though it's kind of social media is very paradoxical because you, yes, you connect with many people and in my case, you know, millions of people, but also it's, it's kind of a solitary thing you do. You know, I create in, in solitude, you know, I create the content for instance, in solitude at the same time though, you know, I create in solitude, you know, I create the content, for instance, in solitude. At the same time, though, you are influencing people. And that's on my mind every day. Of course, that's something that's at the forefront of my mind is that these words now are definitely going to be impacting a lot of people. So I'm careful with that. And but it's on my mind, but it's not something that I place too much weight on because if i do then it will also um i think hamper my creativity and in a sense i

started the account just for me and just as reminders to myself truthfully so that's how i try to continue it because that's i feel the way i can get the purest content and the content that is most the most that is most, the most resonates with the most people. I think I may have went on a tangent there, but. Yeah, but it's a good tangent because we have to get there. Anyway, so, you know, as I shared in the introduction, which will be read later in there, you know,

so part of what we're talking about here is that you've been on this journey where you're now. You're a person who has a very substantial following on a platform called Instagram. And probably one of the really early guys to the game in terms of creating a way of sharing spiritual, personal growth, ideas, quotes, images that now has been, shall I say, mimicked many, many times over. So there's so many directions that we could go with sort of like how that all came into being and actually want to go there, but I still want to fill in a little bit more and then we'll get there. Because before you were doing that, so right now you've got a media company that will sort of deconstruct a little bit. You've got this substantial following where you're affecting a lot of people. But before that, from what I know, you were basically hanging out in Tucson and you were selling cars and running a mannequin company. Yes. Those are two very random, of the many random things I did.

So you got to sort of like tell me this part of the story because I want to know that and then i want to know how we get from there to where you are today sure well that is a good question i i have done many jobs and uh those two you you recently mentioned were um or those two you mentioned were the most recent before i started to think or prosper but i mean i started when I was 16 and I just worked, you know, your standard teenage jobs. You know, I did call centers, was a server, et cetera. I was always a good student. When it came time to go to college, I really had, you know, kind of a natural aversion to it for whatever reason, probably just because I was, you know, lazy at the time, didn't want to do it. But my parents always encouraged me. My dad really pushed me to go to college. And I tried, you know, I went to a couple semesters and it didn't do it for me. It

wasn't resonating with me. It wasn't something that I felt I wanted to continue at that time. And so I went back into the workforce and I did other random stuff. But I always knew that there was something there. There was something that I could do to impact the world greatly. And I wrote that down, actually. Like, I just want to inspire people. I've had that written down in different forms in different journals. But anyway, around 18 years old, I was introduced to the idea of entrepreneurship. I mean, I knew business existed, but I wasn't really introduced to it in any formal way.

And my parents were not entrepreneurial at all, work a job your whole life, et cetera, et cetera. I was introduced to it by actually a guy who approached me about a network marketing company, funny enough. And that didn't work out ultimately, but it did get me around people who had a dream and who like this breed of people that i had not been introduced to before people who had a dream people who were hadn't had definite goals people who had a vision for their lifestyle and people who were making money while they were not there you know not actively working and it was just all very interesting to me and and super fascinating and looking back it seems like oh oh, well, yeah, duh. Like, especially in New York City, you know, it's like everybody's doing something cool.

At the time, I hadn't been exposed to anything like that. I was 18 and I hadn't been exposed to anything like that. So it expanded my bubble and expanded my mental paradigm of what was possible. And so, like I said, that venture didn't work out. But I carried that with me and that planted a seed in me. And then I continued to work jobs and I continued to work jobs I didn't like because I had bills and because a lot has happened. Right. And that's just what you do.

And that's, and that's, and I'm grateful for, for all of it actually. But it just kind of started wearing on me. Like I just knew deep in my, in my heart of hearts that I didn't want to do things that weren't really resonating with me or that didn't really kind of spark joy in me. And it's just not a cool place to be when you get up. I think at the time when I really started feeling the weight of it was I was working at a, an insurance company, an insurance company call center. And I just didn't, like, I would wake up several, you know, like multiple days in a row and not want to go to work. And that was not cool with me because I knew there were people who liked what they did. So I didn't understand why I couldn't.

I knew I could. I knew it was out there somewhere. So anyway, long story short, I ended up in 2013. I just, I don't recommend this necessarily, but I quit my job as I was selling cars at the time. And that was a great experience. That was actually a job that I actually liked. It was fun for a time. But I quit my job and I started, I was doing an herbal supplement. I was like making herbs in my kitchen at the time. And it sounds really sketchy, but like I was doing an herbal supplement. I was like making herbs in my kitchen

at the time. And it sounds really sketchy, but like I was an herbal supplement company and- It's like legit legal herbs. It was legit legal herbs for sure. And so I quit to pursue that. I thought it was going to be big. It did not work out, but ultimately I didn't have a job at that point. And that's kind of where I had to, that's where a lot of shifts happened. That's where Think or Prosper happened at that time frame in my life when I just, it was a very rough time period. I didn't have any money.

I was very, I was unemployed and really had no desire to join the workforce again. So that's kind of where the Think or Prosper story begins. But that's how I got to this point. Yeah. So if that's how the Think Grow Prosper story begins, what was, tell me the beginning of that story. How does that start? The beginning of that story was that I, it was a very difficult time. I was, like I said, unemployed, really no money. And my girlfriend's mother had just been diagnosed with cancer. She was going through chemo. She's very sick. It was just a very dark time in my life. And I did what I

normally do at those times. And that is read. I just, so many mindset shifts and so many perspective changes have happened in a book. I mean, just lines in books have changed my life. Literal, like one line in a book has changed my life so i always go to books that's kind of my my go-to and i was reading just for inspiration just to keep my hopes up and just to stay inspired and at the time i was reading think and grow rich by napoleon hill classic classic book you know it's really fun it has a lot of great great ideas in it and at the time it was resonating with me more than it ever had i had had read it several times before and I really just wanted to solidify those concepts into my brain. And my girlfriend at the time was on

this silly little app all the time. It's called Instagram. And she was using it to take selfies. And I laughed at her a lot. But for whatever reason, I said, you know, that might be a good place to like store some, I saw these cool graphics around the internet said, you know, that might be a good place to like store some, I saw these cool graphics around the internet. I'm like, that might be a good place to store some of these quotes that I've highlighted in the book, just as kind of revert back to it and, you know, reference back to it. So I can remind myself of these, these concepts that are resonating with me right now. And that's what I did. I just started like making quote graphics based on some of the highlighted portions of the book that's what I did. I just started like making quote graphics based on some of the highlighted portions of the book that really resonated with me. And it was just for

myself. It was a private account at first. It was called something different and I use it for my own, for my, for myself. I took it off private eventually and it started getting traction. People started liking it. And for whatever reason, it was just resonating with people. And that's kind of the beginnings of it. So when you start seeing that happen, I mean, because you said, like you said, you're doing this in the background, just because you're going through a really hard time personally. And this is you turn to books, because it helps elevate your spirit. And this is a way for you to catalog what's really standing out for you. And it was a private

account. So what's the switch that gets flipped that makes you say I'm going from private to public and maybe it's something beyond just cataloging for myself? Yeah. Well, this is an important point because for whatever reason, the idea excited me and I was having a lot of fun with it. And I'm a really big proponent now of just acting on your excitement and really kind of carrying that out to the fullest extent. At the time, I didn't know that kind of principle consciously, but I was doing it. And so what kind of was the switch that flipped me to put my account on public was just that I wanted to share it with people. It started being really fun. And I was like, oh, maybe someone will see this and maybe it'll help them like it's helping

me. And that's really, it was a very humble thought. And I didn't have any grandiose plans of creating a media company or anything of that sort. It was really just because it excited me and I thought it'd be fun to do. And that seed grew, but that's how it started. Yeah. How important do you think, because I know you spent a lot of time since then really thinking about why people start things and you've written a bit about it as well. How important do you feel like it is to, if you're going to take the risk of starting something and maybe we should talk

about risk also, because I know that's something that you think about as well, of starting something. How much should that be a manifestation of pure personal interest and desire to serve versus, I think this can actually become a source of revenue? What's your sort of lens on that these days? That's a really good question. I think there is an intersection of those two. But I also think that you don't always have to start with the idea of revenue or scaling or how you're going to make money from anything. And I know that a lot of people will be like, well, that's impractical and that's rational. And I would say, yeah, it is. But that's honestly how some of the best ideas come.

I would say that a lot of us have kind of suppressed what really turns us on, what really excites us and what really kind of sparks your joy in us for the sake of paying the bills. And that's not always the case, but it was the case with me for sure. And I think it's really important just as a culture to get more in the habit of acting on the things that spark joy in us, that excite us, that kind of, you know, ignite some passion in us. And it doesn't have to be something super grandiose or very, you know, groundbreaking or even world changing. It really doesn't. Because really, who would think that starting an Instagram account is going to change the world at all? I mean, at the time, I was really, I thought that my friends would think I'm cool, you know,

but I think that that energy when you do act on something that does truly excite you and maybe it doesn't look good on on paper but it excites you like really kind of right up in your gut you know that energy really resonates with people and you just you can't get away from it like and so if you continue to do that over and over again you know you act on something that excites you and you see how that plays out and then you act on the next thing that excites you. It may be related, it may not be. But if you continue that every day, if you kind of make that a habit, it leads to some very interesting things.

Yeah, I so agree. You know, it's interesting. I have, I'm sure at this point, we both have a lot of conversations with entrepreneurs or people who want to start something, you know, and one of the big questions is, well, how do I market it? How do I get the word out? It's a legitimate question, you know, and at the same time, Nick, one of the big questions is, well, how do I market it? How do I get the word out? It's a legitimate question. Sure. And at the same time, one of the things that I've come to believe, which really kind of jives a lot with what you were just saying, is what I call my beacon theory, which is that when you really align just the fiber of who you are, your deep interests, and you build all of your actions around that, you exist differently in the world. You radiate at a different frequency. You become

this beacon. And it's funny. I'm normally a very science-based, linear, systems-based person. And this is where I get a little bit out there because I'm like, look, I can't explain this. But I've now, I've seen it in myself. I've seen it in my team. I've seen it in so many entrepreneurs that I've worked with that kicking, screaming, throwing money, resources at marketing, building systems, products, and like everything outside of themselves, you know, and it's just like banging a head against the wall. And then, you know, they get to a point where they're just like, I'm cooked. And they're like, I'm just going to go out and do the thing that I feel called to do right now. Something shifts in the way that you bring yourself to the world when that happens.

And I'm not going to say that all of a sudden, you know, the famous quote, providence rises up and supports everything. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't. But what I've seen happen consistently is when you move yourself into the world that way, you become this beacon. And like, people feel it. People just feel it when you walk into a room or when you start a conversation. They feel that there's something radiant that's coming out of you.

Yes. And they want to be – they want to participate in it. And it's to me, it's actually the single – if you want to talk about marketing, I don't – it's my experience that there's no more powerful marketing than finding a way to be in that state. It sounds like it's a lot of what you're talking about. Yeah, that's very true. I mean, I guess I can relate to that because I don't spend any money on marketing, you know, for instance, my page at all. And it has come from that, you know, I think people pick up on that vibe, you know, when

they scroll through the account, they really feel like, you know, there's some heart, there's some heart here, there's some soul here. And so that's, I think a component of it going viral. I also want to say that this is just one point of view. And what I've learned is like, there are so many paths and so many ways to arrive at the same goal. And yeah, the linear, you know, science, right-brained way of going about, you know, structuring a business plan, et cetera, that also works. That's also cool. That may excite somebody. That did not excite me. And I think, especially in today's world,

it's much easier to, there's a much lower entry point to the world of working for yourself. I don't really like to use the word entrepreneur because I think- Yeah, and that's when you're right. That word bugs you. Truly. I mean, and it's fine. I mean, it's a convenient word, but it also kind of makes people think that there's, you know, it's more formal than it is or that there's more to it than it is. I mean, truly like, it's really just about helping one person do, you know, if you have an idea,

some, some idea that you have, it's like, okay, well, you don't need to get business cards. You don't need to incorporate your, yourself. You don't need to do any of this. Just help one person do that idea that you have, and then see if it works and then help another person. In my case, it was just my first customer was myself and I made content for myself. Ultimately, other people liked the content I was creating and I made content for many people, but it started with myself. And I have a friend, Steve Mayer, he's sold multiple businesses for well over seven figures

each. And he started in his teens. He was a teenager. He wanted to open an audio equipment shop. And he started actually just buying speakers from just good deals he would find and selling them to his rich kids at school, his friends at school, you know, and started with one person. And then he opened, you know, a retail shop, a brick and mortar store, and then expanded into eBay and like multiple stores. And so, but it started with one person. So I guess my message is like, you can go about it a number of ways, but just make sure that you're excited about the way you're going about it. Yeah. And I love that.

And I think what you're also bringing up here, which is a really important point, I want to make sure it's really, it's brought out strongly, is that when you read about, quote, entrepreneurship, pretty much anywhere online, generally the only thing that gets covered is the build to scale and exit. And that very often requires, well, we need venture capital. We need to invest substantial resource. We need to take a lot of risk. And this comes full circle to the topic of risk. And what's interesting and what you're saying is there are some endeavors that do require that. But the vast majority of entrepreneurs, quote entrepreneurs in this country or people who found businesses, they're one-person businesses. And they stay one-person businesses.

And they never actually have a desire to go beyond that. And they're legit, viable businesses that let somebody put food on the table and live a good, solid life. And those don't get talked about as much because they're so almost delegitimized by the mainstream entrepreneurship media. So I love the fact that you're kind of saying, you don't have to build all this stuff. You don't have to take on massive amounts of risk and invest a ton of money. Just like, what's the first low risk action that will let you just go out and take the tiniest step to see how it feels? There's a book called Show Your Work,

Austin Kleon. And he really outlines this really well i think and it's just about showing what you're working on showing it to the world if your work is not online it doesn't exist you know in today's world so i i would recommend whatever it is that you're working on whatever it is you're excited about whatever hobbies you have maybe that that you're working on, whatever it is you're excited about, whatever hobbies you have, maybe that you're working, maybe it's maybe you do music on the side, you know, maybe you like make beats or something. Maybe you're a creative person. Maybe you have like arts and crafts, like start an account. I like Instagram. I'm biased toward Instagram, but start some kind of social media account where you kind of put that out into the world and you don't have to show people your finished product. You can show the process and people like to see that.

And that's really what Finger Prosper started as was just showing the process of what I was doing, my personal growth process. So I think that would be the main thing to start with. Yeah. I love that you brought that point up also because one of the big fears I think people have is they only want to show their work once they feel like they're good enough. And what we're seeing, especially with the platform you've chosen, Instagram, is a friend of mine, Lisa Congdon, who's a wonderful illustrator, built a huge following and also a solid chunk of her career by committing to year-long projects on Instagram, where she wanted to learn how to draw a certain way or how to do something. So she's like, look, I know I'm not where I need to be. I know I'm not awesome

yet. But I know if I commit to actually doing one drawing and then sharing it somewhere publicly, I'm going to commit to it. I'm going to state publicly I'm going to do it. And she did it. And all of a sudden, people responded. And I think the biggest surprise for people, and I wonder, is that it's okay. I think we're kind of taught or groomed culturally to be like, don't put stuff out there until it's really good. Because if people see you and you're not the best of the best yet, you're going to be maligned. So there's a massive amount of fear about doing what you're talking about doing but it seems like there are more and more examples of people doing that and i think people embrace that because they it's like they get to go along for the for like through

the hero's journey and the struggle along with you and all of a sudden it's not just your your learning adventure it's like it's everybody's, people love to see behind the scenes stuff. People love to be nosy. People are nosy. Like, and that's just the reality. That's kind of why social media exists. Exactly, like reality TV. Like, why are we even in the Kardashians?

Because we're just nosy. Like, we want to be like, so people love to see process. So, yeah, don't underestimate the process. I mean, the way I think of my account still, I have to go back to that because I don't want to be a guru or like a teacher who has all the answers that people come to. I really want to just show my process and my journey truly. And so of course, you know, we work with brands now and stuff like that. So some of our content is centered around that. But for the most part, you know, I really just want to show people what I'm thinking and thoughts that I find interesting, perspective shifts, and really my process, my process of

figuring out this thing we call life. Yeah. So I want to get a little bit granular with the medium that you've chosen too, because I think it's a really interesting medium. Like I said, when I first saw Instagram, I was like, eh. Yeah, me too. Not for me. Me too. Right. And then I started seeing friends doing like some really powerful stuff on it. And it changed my mind. And what I think it's taken me a really long time to understand is, and for those who are not familiar with Instagram, it's a simple app that originally just allowed you to, it made taking a picture, making some quick tweaks on it, and then sharing it.

It basically made it one-touch simple or three-touch simple. And that was the game changer because it became so easy. And now it's exploded. So I'm sure if you're listening to this, you probably know what it is. But in case you don't, that's what we're talking about here. And people have built – you can follow somebody. And people have built substantial followings. Like Ruben's got closing in on 2 million followers on your own thing yeah yeah and i have another account with yeah so thinker prosper 1.7 million and another account

with um with 1.2 right and here's the thing that took me a while to understand because there's the image but there's also you you can add you know, you basically, you write something to go along with the image. And then there's comments. And the thing that really I struggled with understanding, and maybe you can sort of take me into this a little bit, is that there's actual community. Like there's an actual community that forms around this. Yeah, it is interesting. And it's one of the things that perpetuates the growth of accounts, if you do it right. And I think it's about, you know, people just want to be a part of something, of course, and something that's that they feel is important. And so when I first started the

account, I was, I mean, I've always been into personal development ever since, like I mentioned that I was introduced to the world of business at 18 years old and the gentleman who introduced me he introduced me to a lot of books that i never knew existed like how to win friends and influence people all these kind you know like think and grow rich whatever it's all these books that i did not know existed um and i was like wow this is awesome information so i've've always been interested in that genre. And because of that, I was resonating. I was posting things that resonated with people who were very much like me, I found out. And what I did at the beginning a lot was respond to all of my comments. And I knew who

I was talking to because they were like kind of a reflection of me. Like I attract – like when you do something that you're really – that you actually are genuinely excited about. By the way, when I say excited, I don't mean that you literally have to be jumping up and down. Like it's just kind of – Not the manic type of thing, which is you're drawn to. You're drawn to it. It sparks joy. There's something about it that you're drawn to it right so but when you do

something like that you kind of attract people um who who are on your your wavelength you know and who are very much like you in many respects and so and that's a good thing because you can more easily talk to those people i think that's a big competitive advantage i had early on is i knew exactly who i was talking to because i was part of my niche. I was like the main customer, right? And so I responded to almost every single comment at the beginning. I mean, up until I had, you know, probably 30 or 40, 50,000 followers, I was responding to every single comment and I still respond to some comments here, but that kind of really solidifies a sense of community, I think, too, especially on platforms where maybe just in general, people want to be acknowledged.

And when you acknowledge someone, man, you know, that's powerful. Like I my girlfriend has a has a friend who wrote to one of her blogger, a blogger she follows, and she got a response back from the blogger. And she still talks, but this was like years ago, she still talks about it to this day, how like how nice that was of her to take time to do that. And it's like so simple. But that I think in my point is that I think that practice at the beginning developed a very solid core follower group. And that really helped to fuel the growth of the account and really kind of rally people around the content and the message of the of the page yeah and it does and it does feel like there's a community that builds around that you know you know which which brings up the other question which always comes to me it's something i struggle with a lot i'm curious if

you struggle with it can you scale that and should you scale it you know so once when you're at 10,000 people or 20,000, 50,000 people, and you're still in there, you're like, I'm keeping up with the comments, you know, but you're, you know, you're in the millions now. So how do you deal with trying to acknowledge the people who raise their hand to be a part of your community and at the same time, know that you're scaling something for mass impact? That's a really good question. Yeah, it's a challenge to scale for sure. There are ways to do it. I think in my case, people – let's say – let's take the Think or Prosper account

for instance. I do engage – anything that is – any engagement on that account, any responses is me. So I don't outsource anything at this point. But I think people understand, like, when you have an account that large that you may not get a response anymore. So, yeah, there's not as much of a personal touch, but you can make up for that in a number of ways, I think. One is email lists and keeping in touch with your most passionate followers via email, which I've tried to do as well, blogging. So it's about just being more personal on a mass scale. I recently started a Snapchat account to be a little bit more personal, and Snapchat was another one that I was like, no, I'm never doing that. Never, never, never. So, but anyway.

By the way, I'm coming around to that right now. I'd be like kicking all my friends. I'm like, dude, you have to be on there. I'm like, no, I'm like, maybe. What's your Snapchat? I'm going to add you later. So, yeah, I mean, you can still be personal on a mass scale. I think it's, it's, it's not exactly the same, but you know, it's, it's, it's nice. And it's still something, my decisions for anything starting in really 2013, when I, when I, you know, quit my last job have been lifestyle based. And so I could definitely, like, I should have hired like a couple freelancers probably like several months back for sure.

And I could have scaled this thing in a number of different directions. I have contemporaries who have multiple accounts and literally are on their phones all day, 17 hours a day, which is great. I mean, that's awesome. I have been able to, you know, make a pretty day, which is great. I mean, that's awesome. I have been able to, you know, make a pretty comfortable living from just me. And my girlfriend also helps. So when I say, you know, we're doing this, it's her too. So we both do this and she helps with some of the content creation, et cetera. But it's more important to me to not have stress than it is to make a few thousand more dollars.

And that's how I've always looked at it. We definitely are growing and we definitely have plans to expand in different ways, but I'm a big believer that we create our own stress. I mean, in a lot of cases. So yeah, I want to make sure that I'm comfortable with the growth and that it all fits into the lifestyle that they get to live their lives every single day and end up building something that's scaled nicely and is very profitable. And then they actually hate the business that they built because it's stressing them. It's like they've built something that they've very likely has all the stress that they left in a prior job where they had no control. Exactly.

I mean, Tim Ferriss was a big influence early on with me. You know, I view him as kind of like a solopreneur and he's, you know, really all about, you know, lifestyle design and making sure that you have a business that supports your lifestyle and that lets you live. I think that's really important. So it brings to mind the Mexican fisherman story. I don't know if you've heard of that before. Yeah. So for those who don't know, it's a real quick rundown. I posted it several times on my account, but it's like this Mexican fisherman and this American visits the coast of Mexico, and he sees this Mexican fisherman catching these beautiful yellowfin tuna. And he's like,

wow, those are amazing. Do you know, you could make a lot more money? And the Mexican fisherman's like, well, he says to the American businessman, he's like, well, you know, I have a nice life already. You know, I fish during the day for a few hours and I come back home and I spend some time with my kids. And at night we go out and drink some wine and listen to music. And the American businessman is like, well, if we scale, you know, we could do this and we could open a cannery in New York, but you'd have to, you know, move there for a while.

And, but we can make you millions of dollars. And the Mexican fisherman's like, well, how long will that take? He's like, oh, about 20 years or so, maybe 15, if we do it, if we do it right. And he's like, okay, well, and after that, what happens? Well, like, do it right. And he's like, okay, well, and after that, what happens? Well, like, what will I do? He's like, well, you'll retire. And then you'll get to, you know, spend time with your kids, more time with your kids and your wife, and then go drink wine, listen to music in the town, you know? And it's like, you take a very long route to the same end, right? So a lot of people like,

I got to achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve, and do this and get all this, get all this, get all this. But really you kind of back where you started. And I think a lot of people don't realize that you in many cases don't need as much as you think you do. And that's a position of power. It's not a position of lack.

It's a position of power. When you need less, you have more. Yeah. How is it for you having that lens on what matters to you when you exist in a world where most people don't share that? When most people look at technology and social media-based business and generating revenue, almost always like the single biggest benefit that people talk about is the ability to reach and scale exponentially faster than any other way with minimal risk. And most people actually, that's their aspiration. So I'm curious whether you have felt that you're sort of surrounded by people who see the world differently. Yeah. In many, most people do see the world like that. And I feel like I am surrounded by the majority of people have that mentality. It's just about your goals, honestly. I mean, one's not better than the other. It's really about what's going to support your lifestyle.

Thankfully, I have a very low cost lifestyle. So I, you know, I'm not against scaling at all. I definitely think it's something that, you know, like I said, we're going to try in various creative ways to scale this business somehow, but I'm against scaling for scaling sake. Like, yeah. Like that's not necessary. If you're scaling for a goal, like if you have a goal to have $10 million in the bank, you know, then you're gonna have scale probably. My goals are more lifestyle based. Obviously, you know, there's income goals tied to that. But like I said, you know,

most people overestimate how much they need to really live the life that they want to. And in the process, create a lot of stress for themselves. So I just always try to take inventory of my life. Is it going how I want? Do I have the time I want? Are my stress levels okay? And if all that's good, if I'm happy, then I don't touch the business. Yeah.

And I think that's the process that so many of us don't actually ever, like, don't just like zoom the lens out for a moment and just ask those questions. You're like, what actually does matter to me? You're like, what do I actually want? And what do I not want? You know, just in terms of like the qualities of life, you know, you can get really granular and say $10 million, a giant company, whatever it is. But just in terms of how do I want to experience the qualities of my life?

My sense is that very few people spend any time trying to understand or define that. I'm curious. You brought up much earlier in a conversation the fact that you've journaled. Do you still journal? Not as consistently as i should i i mean i mostly when when i'm in a very rough place the way i journal is i i really when i'm going through anything challenging i really use journaling to um to write down things that i that are good right now and that i am grateful for just to kind of refocus that's the main thing i use journaling for and then i

i've been blogging recently. So that's another form of it. Yeah. So we should probably, there's like this big lingering question, I'm sure that some people are like, this sounds awesome, but how's the guy actually earning a living?

So we might as well just sort of speak to that. So when you have this, you've now built this thing where you have a substantial, you have millions of people following content and conversations that you put out into the world through this one unique platform. And, and this is your sole source. This is how you're earning your living now. So, so how does that, how does that, how does you reading and learning and exploring and digesting and filtering, and then sharing like little bits of digest and your

thoughts on what you're learning, how does that turn into a sustainable living for you? Pretty much the same way it does for a TV station or a radio station or any media company. So here's the Our Magazine, for instance. Those are kind of the traditional media that I can draw a parallel to. And that's the easiest way to explain it. So it's very simple. And I've had to do this because most of my family has no idea what I do. My friends are like, I don't know. He's always on his phone. Right. Yours and my phone. It's like, what are you doing here?

Exactly. It's a very weird business to be in, right? But anyway, here's the breakdown. So basically, if you're watching TV, right, you watch programs and it has a bunch of shows like a TV station. ABC, for instance, has a bunch of shows. Those are the content. In between those shows, there are some commercials which pay the salaries of the people on the shows, pay the salaries of the overhead that the company has. So it's driven by commercials and by sponsors. Now, in social media, it doesn't translate exactly because the commercials in traditional media are much more interruptive. The commercials in social media need to be more integrated. And at least

that's the path I've taken. I know there are other models out there, but I've taken a more advertorial kind of position. And what that means is I work with brands, both large and small, who have a message that really aligns with Think, Grow, Prosper in some way, whether it's motivational or inspirational or thought-provoking. And these brands typically seek me out and they want exposure. So the idea with going back to the TV station analogy, ABC, they have millions of viewers. Those are eyeballs and people who want to get their message out there, their product

out there, they want those eyeballs. They want that exposure. And the same thing with an Instagram account is we have a lot of eyeballs. We have 1.7 million eyeballs and that draws in people who want exposure, whether it's for their message or their brand or even sometimes their product, if it's a good fit. So that's really what we do. We help people get exposure because we have a platform for that of people who are interested in similar messages. Now, something that we've been very careful about is aligning with the right people. And that's a crucial part of it all. Because if you don't, you lose trust with your followers. On Thingorprosper, you're not going to see an ad for for like shoes or

something i'm not going to sell shoes uh you know unless like some unless somehow it makes sense unless they're like inspirational shoes that have an inspirational message i don't know tom's shoes there you go one or something right because then the mission as well line exactly so that's actually a good a good example of of of a twist that that could make it fit right so so that's the mission as well, right? Exactly. So that's actually a good example of a twist that could make it fit, right? So that's the idea is we work with people who have a message that aligns well, and we present them to our audience in a way that resonates with them. I mean, it's so fascinating to me on so many levels. One is that you can actually do this, which is inspiring for so many people.

And it goes back to the early part of the conversation. You wanted to inspire people both with what you were learning and sharing and the wisdom of all these other people. And now I think it's also really inspiring to look at what you've done from a business and earning a living standpoint and say, because it's like, ah, like when somebody sees it, then all of a sudden you become another bit of proof that stuff like this is possible, you know, and that's cool. It is cool. It's amazing. And you can make a living in so many ways in 2016. And going forward, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's really hilarious. It's funny.

You also, like you said, you've also you've now had a website and a blog and recently launched a course, I guess. So it sounds like part of what's going on with you too. And I'm curious how much of this is a focus for you right now, rather than just sort of like the next sort of experiment, you know, you started to take a lot of what you've been learning and studying and digest it into not just unique things that you put on your Instagram account, but actual, a more comprehensive synthesis of, well, you know, this is kind of what I think about this particular way to live better in the world. Yeah, exactly. Well, I think that it is a natural extension of the brand. And for instance, Netflix has shows that they, here's another parallel for you, or an analogy.

Netflix has shows that, you know, from other people that other people produce. They also have their Netflix originals. You know, Costco has, they sell brands, they sell other people's brands and, you know, products from other people. They also have their original stuff that they produce. And so it's just, you know, we share things from other people and curated content, Thingor Prosper does. But we also want to make our own products and have our own label. So it's important. It's important.

And also people are looking for things that are more organized, more well packaged. And so that's what we're working on right now is really creating products that meet a specific need. Obviously, the account is great and people get a lot of value from it um sometimes there's a lot of value in um curating content on a specific subject and presenting it in a way that makes it easy for people to absorb that uh those concepts yeah that makes a lot i mean it also in in a lot of ways it mimics our business model for a good life project people are constantly they're asking i've had so many guests actually as soon as the mic goes off they're like looking around they're like many guests, actually, as soon as the mic goes off, they're looking around. They're like, okay, so you actually have a studio. You have employees.

How do you make money? And it's a similar thing. We have the media side of our business, and we haven't sold sponsorship yet, but we're certainly open to it in conversations at this point. If it's the same thing with you, though, it has to be fiercely well aligned. Exactly. That's always my hesitation. But we also have the education side of the venture the venture you know and that's you know been historically the revenue side and and events and courses and stuff like that so it's an interesting analog

it's almost like we've taken the opposite approach you know like you've started with media and now you're sort of backing your way into education we start with education and now we're starting to look at the media as a revenue side yeah it's it's it's just so fascinating to look at like how people can create stuff and and you don't have to necessarily follow anyone else's mold anymore it's true and something that i think is really important to recognize is that if you're out there wondering like well you know my business you know isn't really instagram friendly or social media friendly, or like just unsure of how to begin. Even just think of it this way that every business is a

media company and there's people, there's other people who have talked about this, but let me explain that a little bit more. If you have a, for instance, a dog sitting business, let's say. People, especially on social media, are not going to respond to you asking for business. You don't do a post. Your first post shouldn't be, hey, I have a dog sitting business. That's old school. You are a media business. So you want to attract people who are attracted to the type of content you produce that aligns with that business. So for instance, if you own a dog sitting business,

maybe you would produce content media that is related to ways to take care of your dog or even just cute animal photos. That's going to attract this type of media. This type of content is going to attract pet owners, presumably. And this is just a rough example, obviously, but that's going to attract pet owners. And then at that point, you have an audience of pet owners or pet lovers. That would be a cool audience to then maybe ask, hey, you know, if anybody needs a pet sitter, here I am, right? So you want to build your audience around your content, whatever industry field you're in, you want to build your audience around your content, rally them around that.

And then you make sure that's related to your core business. And that's how you start, you know, your business. So everybody's in the media business in a sense. Yeah, whether you want to be or not. It's just sort of the nature of the way that the world is shifting right now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there are so many other places I could go with you, but I think it probably makes sense for us to come full circle here. So the name of this is Good Life Project.

So when I offer that term out to you, to live a good life, what comes up? To live a good life, what comes up? To live a good life. I mean, I think of it very simply, and that is, it's going to sound, it's hard to not sound cliche with this answer, but some of the cliches are some of the most truthful things. And that is, if you're living a good life, you are genuinely content and happy. I don't mean like, you know, happy, like you're smiling every day, but you're, you're, you know, happy with the way your life's going and you're progressing toward things that matter to you. If you're doing things that matter

to you, if you're excited about the days in general, you know, when you get up, you're living a good life. I mean, it's very simple. Like I hate when people overcomplicate it because that's how you get unhappy. If you overcomplicate things, I've just found that if you think that you need the fancy car and you need this amount of money in the bank, or you need, you know, something outside, like, to be happy constantly, then it's kind of like a treadmill. I've heard it said it's like the hedonic treadmill. And so it's tough, you know, you, you, I don't know if you ever actually get that. But as long as you're, I think that the concise way to say it was, is if you are progressing toward a goal that matters to you and appreciating the steps along the way, that's a good life.

Thank you. Hey, thanks so much for listening. We love sharing real unscripted conversations and ideas that matter. And if you enjoy that too, and if you enjoy what we're up to, I'd be so grateful if you would take just a few seconds and rate and review the podcast. It really helps us get the word out. And you can actually do that now right from the podcast app on your phone. If you have an iPhone, you just click on the reviews tab and take a few seconds and jam over there. And if you haven't yet subscribed while you're there, then make sure you hit the subscribe button while you're at it. And then you'll be sure to never miss out on any of our incredible guests or conversations or riffs. And for those of you, our awesome community who are on other platforms, any love that you might be able to offer sharing our message would just be so appreciated. Until next time, this is Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

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