Good Life Project - Why You Keep Reacting Badly (Even When You Know Better) | Shankari

Episode Date: June 2, 2025

Feel an inner battle raging within yourself? Unlock the secrets of Internal Family Systems (IFS) - a powerful therapeutic approach that empowers you to befriend even your most challenging inner "parts."Guided by master IFS practitioner Shankari, discover profound practices rooted in neuroscience to rewrite limiting beliefs, reclaim your wholeness, and live from your truest self.You can find Shankari at: Website | Episode TranscriptIf you LOVED this episode, you’ll also love the conversations we had with Dr. Mariel Buqué about breaking free from inherited trauma.Check out our offerings & partners: Join My New Writing Project: Awake at the WheelVisit Our Sponsor Page For Great Resources & Discount Codes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So have you ever felt like you've got these different personalities living in your head, constantly disagreeing and leaving you confused or paralyzed even? Like one part wants to take that leap while another wants to cling to safety. Well get ready to make peace with yourself because this fascinating conversation is going to explore an incredibly powerful approach to understanding and reconciling these different parts within us. I'm talking about internal family systems or IFS for short, kind of like the hot thing on the block of processing

what goes on inside you these days. And my guest today, Shankari, is one of the most experienced and passionate guides to this transformative modality. With over 15 years immersed in the rich healing landscape of California's legendary Esalen Institute and decades of practice and client work, she has intricately woven together traditions like Gestalt Therapy, Somatic, Shamanism and more into her IFS practice. And by relating to our inner voices, be they anger or fear or even our

innermost dreams with compassion and curiosity, IFS reveals we're not fragmented beings at odds with ourselves. We're whole with an essential self that can harmonize our parts. And Shankari shares amazingly practical techniques to stop battling unhelpful habits and befriend our most challenging emotional patterns. But IFS also is more than self-help. It is a spiritual practice rooted in cutting edge neuroscience about how we can literally

rewire neural pathways. So Shankari reveals the almost magical process of quote unburdening core beliefs often forged in childhood traumas. It's kind of mind blowing stuff that gave me a visceral felt sense of reclaiming my wholeness. So whether you struggle with outdated coping mechanisms, self doubt, or just feeling disconnected from your truest self, this conversation will illuminate a profound path to personal freedom. So get ready to meet the enlightened community within you, guided by one of the world's

foremost experts in IFS. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. purchased one donated promise. Bombas makes socks, underwear, slippers, slides, and t-shirts all designed to feel good and do good. Since we're new in Canada, all new customers enjoy 20% off your first purchase. Just visit bombas.ca. That's B-O-M-B-A-S.C-A and use code MUSIC to start doing good and feeling even better. If you're anything like us, you love attention and my favorite way to get all eyes on me is with next level shiny glossy hair. Which is why we're so excited to tell y'all about the new LaMelaure gloss collection from the Gurleys at Tresemme. And gigglers, we've got you too, because Tresemme partnered with us to bring you 1-800-GLOSS,

a special bonus episode of Giggly Squad where Hannah and I give advice on all things hair and giving gloss. Check out the episode and grab the LaMela gloss collection today because I'm officially declaring this spring gloss season. Audible invites you to listen for the thrill. Escape the everyday with stories that leave you breathless. Whether it's heart pounding suspense

like the Audible Originals 10 Rules for the Perfect Murder by James Patterson or the downloaded with Brendan Fraser. Or how about a fantasy adventure like Onyx Storm or Amelia Hart's The Sirens? Audible has an incredible selection of audiobooks, podcasts and originals all in one app. Start listening and discover what's beyond the edge of your seat when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.ca. I think folks, if they've been exposed to it, many of them became familiar with the IFS,

or internal family systems, through Dick Schwartz and his work, sort of like really teasing this out, the notion of parts or parts work. And I want to dive into that with you because I think it's so powerful, and it's also, I feel like it's really becoming part of sort of like the zeitgeist these days. I just hear everybody talking about it. But I'm also curious, when you start out more somatically oriented, what's the journey

for you to go from there to really deepening into internal family systems or parts work? Yeah, yeah. In my 15 years at Esalen, I was there in so many different ways during that 15 years. It wasn't just like one static, here's how I am. I started off as this month-long work scholar and then a year-long extended studies program.

And then, and that was all, I was working in the kitchen and I had come there and I had these kitchen issues and I was working through them by working in a kitchen. And then I worked in the IT department and I had these kitchen issues and I was working through them by working in a kitchen. Then I worked in the IT department and then I taught classes and just the fabric of one's life. Esalen, for those who don't know, by the way, is this fantastic place in Big Sur, California, right?

Literally built into the bluffs overlooking the ocean. And for, I want to say generations, a few generations now, it's been this place where the leading minds in science, in medicine, in spirituality, in killing modalities kind of all come together and there's this magical almost like stew that gets formed where there's a cross pollination that's really powerful. Yeah. So basically at Esalen at that time and for many years, not so much now, I think, is that

Gestalt. So Esalen was a place known as a place without having a flag. There was not one like paradigm or modality that led anything. But Gestalt was used as a framework for communication within the community and the administration. And Gestalt is like IFS, process-oriented parts work. So what that means is it's also very somatically based just like IFS. For example, as an extended student in the year-long program. It's like I would be in process for my work group for two hours a week. And then I had a special process group for being an extended student.

Then more and more. And so it's just like really like it's all about getting in touch with the parts of yourself, hearing their voices, feeling them in your body, moving through them, really communicating like this eye-vowel relationship and speaking for myself instead of saying, you did this and you know what it's like when this, instead of saying that, it's like, oh, I had this experience. And so like centering, it's just like, oh, yeah, what's happening for me? And even when someone is in, when there's a facilitator and someone's going through their process work, let's say they're in what's called the hot seat, originally with

Fritz Perls, then it's like, oh, what's it like to sit here and be with myself and be with all of the parts that are arising as I'm watching someone doing their process work with a facilitator? Because it's like, I can't say anything, I can't do anything, I can't interrupt the process. And it's just like, I might be having big triggering and activated parts of myself arising. So it's like, how do I sit with that? And so it's like many, many, many hours of doing that and watching people's journeys

and their process, just like so amazing. And so I came from this Gestalt background and I studied it and they had a certificate program in it. But I never felt really called to offer it to other folks and I thought that I would. But what I found out later is when it came upon IFS is it's like, oh, it was missing this element that's for me so important, which is spirituality. And also IFS has a very shamanic element. And I really delved into shamanism while I was at Esalen, as these amazing shamans would come there and teach. And the power of the natural place, the land of Esalen and Big Sur is so profound that all of that stirred together, where it's just like,

oh, spirituality. I'll just share with you. I was going around to different ashrams and retreat centers and I knew I wanted to live in a learning community. I looked at this place and I looked at this place, but I would find dogma. And it's like, you have to follow this belief and you can't question something. And it's like, oh, I'm not into that. And so at Esalen, there's that freedom because it's like no one idea captures this place. So there is no dogma.

And so bringing it back around, so lots of shamanism. And so there's Christal, process-started parts work, and then there's IFS, which includes shamanistic practices and working in the non-ordinary realm and recognizing that. And the spiritual angle, which is this self-energy, this core essence. To me, it's like the Tao. Tao is everywhere and within everything. It's like the spark of divinity that we all have and that connects us all. It's like Gestalt was for me a natural, it was a natural progression to go from that to IFS where then it's like, oh yeah, it's got these elements that are just so important to me.

So really brought together actually that everything that I had learned before Esalen and through that amazing period. Yeah. I mean, that's so interesting. In particular, I never thought of IFS as being so integrated. I'm curious to explore that a bit more with you. It always felt just sort of like fairly linear and practical to me, but maybe that's just the way that it's often brought to us because that kind of goes down easier for a lot of people, especially as a point of entry to the work. It's just the

more practical approach to it. But I love what you said also about so often we're invited into a system of practices, but in order to gain access to it, we're also told that we have to buy into a system of practices, but in order to gain access to it, we're also told that we have to buy into a set of beliefs or rules or doctrine or dogma. We look at the practices, we're like, oh, that's kind of cool. I could see how that would really make a difference, but because they're not offered separate from this other set of beliefs that kind of either we don't buy into or maybe we have a lot of friction with them. And we're not really often given the opportunity to just cherry pick or kick the tires of it

all and say like, well, but what about this? We kind of throw the whole thing away. We walk away from all of it rather than saying, no, like take what makes sense to you. Take what feels good to you, what feels nourishing and what might work to you and travel forward with it and then bring it to others if you want. I love that you kind of looked at this and said, okay, so I'm not the type of person who just says yes because somebody else is telling me this is the way it is. You kept exploring and found a different way into a similar body of work but in a way that felt much more intuitive and holistic to you. Yes. I love that word holistic. Absolutely. Wow. You said so many things that excited

me right then. So I'm just kind of like just sitting with what you just shared. I'm like, man, I could go in so many directions. Why don't you lead me? Well, why don't we dive into IFS, right? Because I want to really explore that with you and I want to explore your take on it in particular. So for a lot of folks listening, this may be entirely new to them. You know, the idea of internal family systems. And by the way, when we use the phrase IFS, it's really – it's just shorthand for this thing called internal family systems, which a lot of people now call parts work. For those unfamiliar, maybe explain a little bit what it means to work with parts of ourselves

and why this approach is so different and powerful. Yeah. I'm really into helping support people to be empowered. And it's like to me, it's so empowering because so often we can feel, I can feel broken. And it's just like, oh, it's empowering because it's like, there is an aspect of you. There is again, this Dao, right? This divine aspect that connects us all, like this universal energy. And that energy is inside of us, and it's not broken, and it's whole, and we have access to it. And no matter how, like, you know, maybe we don't feel like we're worthy of love, or, you know, any of these, like, extreme beliefs or ideas that we get about ourselves that we take in

because of traumas from when we were kids most often, then this self-energy that we have, it's always there like the sun and the parts of ourselves come in these voices that is just like, oh, I'm not worthy or I don't want to do this or I'm frightened of this. Those are like clouds that obscure the sun, but the sun is always there. So in parts work, we learn, it's just like, oh, hey, I'm, you know, nervous about something and turning towards it with curiosity. And it's like, what is, what's going on instead be like, stop feeling that way. I don't want to feel that way.

I'm going to ignore it. I'm going to turn it out. And then it's got to get louder and louder. And like, as you mentioned earlier, it's like semantically it arises within the body and then it's like, Oh, now I've got a migraine. And that's really, oftentimes it can be a part of ourselves that is having to shout because you haven't been listening to it. And so now it's creating these physical symptoms within you these physical symptoms within you until you like slow down and turn towards yourself and listen and just sit and patiently welcome whatever arises.

So it's like even as I'm sharing this, I hear my language and it's very spiritual. So when somebody hears this notion of parts of myself, my sense is that folks might struggle with this because we kind of have the sense of like, but there's just me. Right, yes, this monolith ego. I see one body, one brain, one meat suit, one whatever it is. I'm just like a person, right? And then you're talking about, it's almost like you're saying, well, there's this one person over here that exists within you that feels angry and another person that wants to protect you,

another person that feels hurt and another that's really a dreamer. But isn't that all just me? And Partsword teases it out in a way which I think is interesting. So, if somebody is working with you, somebody is sitting down with you and you're trying to, you're doing the dance and figuring out, are we going to work together and they bring this up. How do you speak to that? Yeah.

Well, to me, the easiest thing is it's just like, okay, so let's say I was invited to a party and it's just like, oh, it gets to be the time of the party. Part of me is like, yeah, I want to go out. Then another part of me is just like, I just want to just get in my jammies and get out some ice cream and watch a movie. You know, it's like, I love being with people, but I also have a part that feels antisocial. And so it's just like, oh, I'd rather just like not make the effort of going out and I just want to sit at home.

So there to me is like such, it's just like, I think most people have had that experience where it's just like, I want to do this. And then it's just like, I want to do this completely opposite thing and which one am I going to do? And that's where it's like, you know, what happens within us is that, you know, we have these aspects like, you know, like you could call them alter egos within us, and they can get polarized. And they get where it's just like, it's like, I wanna grow, and I wanna do this new thing.

And it's just like, no, I wanna stay where I am, and I wanna stay comfortable. And they get in this tug of war. So for sure, many people have experienced that. I'm raising my hand. I'm probably gonna experience that five times before the end of today in all different ways. And for me, because I'm also,

you know, I'm much more introverted and sensitive. Like my experience is often, well, you know, maybe I'm invited to this gathering. And I think about the gathering and I'm like, oh, there would be interesting people there who I'd love to have conversations or maybe there's professional opportunity there. Maybe there's some voice in my head. Maybe there's a part that's saying, oh, you should go to this because it's going to open

doors for you that are really important. Then the other part is like, but dude, you're a quieter, sensitive person. You just want to hang out at home and this is going to make you really uncomfortable. One part is like, go do this thing. It's not necessarily a want thing. It's more of like, it's sort of saying you should do this because the benefits on the other side of it are things that you keep saying that you want. The other part is like, yeah, but I'm gonna be really uncomfortable doing that. And I have no doubt, people tuning into this conversation

have their version of it, right? How would you even start to think through something like that? Well, the word that you used was interesting because you said think. And so that's like, oh, of this multitude within us, is oftentimes we have a really strong thinker who wants to think our way out of things.

And so it's just like first noticing, it's just like, oh, you know, that may be a part. And I just want to share with folks that like one way is I I love using that word tease, as we tease apart, what's this village within us, this community, is called internal family systems. One way you can think about it is like, oh, there's a family inside of me. Sometimes people are really connected with their inner teenager or with their inner child. Actually, I'm just going to switch tracks real quick and I'm going to just share that it's like in a lot of the modalities that I've learned and benefited from, they would often say, just love your inner child.

I'm just all like, but how? How do I love my inner child? I don't understand. So I'd be all activated or upset about something. And I'm like, I love you. And it's just like, I feel like this inside. And then I'm like, I love you. I'm here for you. And it's just all like, it's not working. And so for me, IFS is a way in which we can actually communicate with like our inner child, for example, and really form a relationship and have it respond and have it know that I'm there for it and I can take care of this little inner wounded child and that I can actually help what's called, it's like a technical term,

unburdened, it's a shamanic term as well, unburdened this inner child of the wound that it's carrying. When it took in this message when I was like two years old and I did something and I got yelled at and it took that in meaning like, oh, I'm not lovable. There's something inherently wrong with me. So it's almost like you have a family existing. I'm visual lovable. There's something inherently wrong with me. So it's almost like you have so you have a family existing. I'm visualizing now. OK, so, you know, I've got a little family that just kind of like resides inside of me.

And each one of them has their own agenda. Yes. And that's so perfect, because that's what I was going to share. Is that the difference where you could tell like a part of yourself versus like, well, how do I know? It's like, I'm all me, right? So how can I tell? So even though I'm all me, there are sometimes these voices where it's like, I don't feel like going out tonight.

And so it's like, well, how can I tell whether I'm in what's called self-energy, whether I'm tapped into my core essence, my intuition, or whether I'm in what's known as blended with a part of myself and one of these voices that I hear. It's because the parts of ourselves have agendas and self-energy and its core essence of ourselves does not have an agenda. It's this inner healing agent. If you're feeling an agenda, then pretty safe bet one of those parts is rearing its head and saying then probably waving its finger inside of you saying this is the thing that has to happen. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

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the Gurleys at Tresemme. And gigglers, we've got you too. Because Tresemme partnered with us to bring you 1-800-GLOSS, a special bonus episode of Giggly Squad where Hannah and I give advice on all things hair and giving gloss. Check out the episode and grab the LaMeller gloss collection today because I'm officially declaring this spring gloss season. I think one of the interesting concepts around parts work also is, you know, so we've got

this family within us. We've got these different parts with different personalities, almost different agendas, they want different things, right? It would be easy, I think, and maybe almost intuitive to sort of say, well, let me line up the different people in here. Like, let's look at each one of the family members, right? And start to label them. Okay, good, bad, helpful, unhelpful, because that's what we do. We put people outside of us in buckets. So I'm guessing that when you see this in the work, we try and put the people inside of us into those buckets of good, bad, helpful, or unhelpful too. Well, see, that's the amazing thing is that these aspects within us, they are more than

what we would label them as. Like, let's say it's like, oh, I've got an inner critic and I've got a thinker, you know, and I've got one who feels who's angry. I got an angry one, you know? And it's just like, it's so easy to think that that's all that they are. But once you actually start forming a relationship to what you, because you are hearing the voices, you are, you know, you are responding and you're kind of being, you know, we get a little bit hijacked by our parts and a little bit like we're puppets of them. And so it's like when we create some separation, we can actually be in relationship with them rather

than acting out how they are. So it's like, I don't need to act in an angry manner when I actually listen to that one who I maybe have labeled as angry, but who actually is like much more complex. It's very fractal because it's like the macrocosm is reflected and the inside is the microcosm. Yeah. Now, that makes sense. So, if we look at each one of these different parts, let's say the angry part, right? Pretty safe that we all have somewhere in us an angry part. Maybe it's not angry right now, but it's probably in there. Maybe it's kind of snoozing right now. Let's see the angry part pops up, right? You're in a conversation with somebody and the angry part starts to say, take the lead here. And then probably not

infrequently, when we find out, we kind of realized,, we zoom the lens out for a hot second and realize, oh, like I'm actually coming into this conversation from a place of anger and that's a bad thing. So like this angry part in me is taking the lead and that's a bad thing. Like I need to actually figure out a way to shut them down or to turn them off because I don't want that to happen. I would imagine that's a response a lot of times, but that's not necessarily the constructive way to deal with this at all. Exactly, exactly. So that's her natural tendency, and that's why it really helps to work with someone, especially to begin with.

But the neat thing about IFS is that you can do it yourself as well, right? So it's not like, you know, that's why I think it's very empowering, because you can learn how to do it yourself and help yourself. But it definitely helps in the beginning to have someone help facilitate and support your process and to hold space for everything that comes up. Because it's like, oh, when I start to connect, it's just like, okay, I've got this angry part. I'm feeling angry and I yelled at my kids and then I go get some space and I go

for a walk and I realize, oh, geez, I don't want to be that person. I don't want to be yelling at my kids. But it's just like, oh, there's just so much going on. I just feel so overwhelmed. And as you turn towards yourself with curiosity, where it's just like, what was going on with me? You know, I know that I'm not only this angry thing. I know that that's like, Oh, I got a little activated, you know, something my husband said earlier in the day really triggered me. And it's like, that was that was kind of this undercurrent going on. And this is like the self exploration. And and it's like what's really happening. So it's having this approach and that's where it's like that's that healing agent of your core essence, your self-energy,

which is it's like it has these qualities. There's like these eight qualities that start with a C, like calmness and curiosity and compassion. And when our parts, you know, all these voices within us can give us some space, like, you know, it's like the inside out movie, right? Love that movie, by the way. This is so popular. Yes. And it's like, it really shows it's parts work and it's like so beautiful that,

that people can really see what's happening. And it's as we get space and it's just like some separation where it's like, this is not my whole identity. I'm not this angry person who's so activated and triggered all the time. It's like, oh, it's like, no, it's over here and I've got some space and I can relate to it and can turn towards myself and this angry one.

And it's like underneath that, there's probably a little, for me, a little girl who was really hurt and that's what the strategy that my parts came up with when I was little is, it's like, oh, she's got to be angry and she's got to fight to be protected. So it's less about trying to take that part that led to a behavior that you didn't want to happen. Rather than trying to say, I need to snuff that out, we need to just put an end to this angry part, acknowledging that this is actually a part that's within me. That part has probably

also served some sort of important purpose. I'm here, and maybe the fact that I'm here now, maybe I'm not as like happy or functional, whatever it is now as I could be or I'd love to be, but I'm here now and there's a lot of good in the fact that I'm here now. So maybe the fact that there is an angry part in me has served some role in keeping me, you know, okay enough to be here now

and maybe going deeper and exploring like, what is the intent underneath the anger that I can understand? Because I would imagine if you certainly try and do battle with a part, like any person on the outside, like your inside part, your person on the inside who's angry is going to put up the shields and get defensive too, and it's not going to be helpful. Exactly. It's not very productive. Yeah. And guess what? We've tried that, right? How many times have we all tried that and where does it get us, right? So I don't know, do something different actually and turn towards yourself with some curiosity and some compassion.

And that's what I know from this work is that all of these parts and aspects of ourselves is just like all of these different voices, all these different characters and different emotions. It's just like they have the best intentions for you. The one that's so angry is trying so hard to help you and protect you. It does not feel like that. It does not look like that. Okay. But it's true. And so as you find out, it's just like, they just want to be heard and witnessed and validated. And that validation has to do with it's just like, yeah, when I was a little kid, that's a strategy that I needed. And that worked for me. And now it doesn't work anymore. And now it's becoming a problem. And it's actually hurting me. And

this part, like when it hurts, when it hears that, like if the anger one hears, it's just like, oh, it's actually hurting my relationship with my husband. When it hears that it's just like, oh, criminy, I was just trying to help you. And then it just becomes a lot more motivated to actually, you know, to help you. And the way that it becomes free to be able to do that, to do something different is by having you, you know, kind of shower this self-compassion and curiosity towards yourself. And then the angry one is like, we'll tell you all about, well, here's why I'm angry. And I'm actually protecting this little one who was like, you know, two years old and got yelled at and took in this message. And then it's like through this process in IFS, I'm burdening, we can help the little

one who's known as an exile to let go of this belief, this extreme belief or idea that was never true and was not theirs and that was put upon them. And so then it can release this idea that's just like, oh, there's something inherently wrong with me. I'm unlovable. And then the little one who's in exile can come and return to the rest of my system and brings these gifts and wisdom and all of our parts. They can look angry and be all kinds of ways, but it's like within

them they all have this gifts and wisdom and they communicate through our body and in other ways. And like I said, like somatically it's like, oh, it's like, what happens if I get these migraines every time my sister calls me? It's just like, oh, there might be some kind of connection there. And not that all my grades come from, but there's definitely, they communicate through our bodies. Yeah. So then the way that we might think about it is more if we identify this angry part in us

or this hurt part in us or this protective part in us, and it's leading to behavior that we just don't feel is helpful for who we are in the life that we have now and the relationships that we have now. Rather than trying to eliminate it or do battle with it, it's almost like we do the opposite. We acknowledge it.

We thank it because at some point when that behavior was established, if we go back in time, it sounds like there was a good intent. It was trying to keep you alive, to protect you, to create an outcome that was safe for you. There was a purpose. There was a reason that this part took on that personality at some point. It's almost like we go back and say, okay, there was some sort of benevolent intent. There was a good purpose, good intention there and almost acknowledge it and say thank you in a way because that

behavior, you know, like kept me okay. But if we zoom the lens forward now, I don't need that same response to keep me okay in the life that I'm living now and the relationships that I'm having now. So can we have a conversation about maybe exploring a different way of showing up? I mean, I'm probably totally butchering it here, but does that make sense? Oh my God. You got it. You're so right on. I was like, oh my God, you could be a great teacher of this. Yeah, absolutely. Except for the last part. Okay. Yeah. And so that's where getting to know the parts and finding out like what's your

story? What happened for you? And oftentimes, you know, people get this information within themselves in different ways, but it's like an image might flash or they might hear like, you know, a word or something within themselves as they're turned in internally. And it's like I facilitate and hold space for someone to go onto that internal journey. And I help guide them with these questions. And the questions help support their getting into contact and finding out what's really happening, what's going on. So there might be like an image that pops up and it's just like, oh, it's like I see me as like a little two year old and I'm crying and I'm rocking or something

and there's like a broken plate, you know, and it's just all like, oh, oh my gosh, wow. You know, there can be this cognitive moment where it's just like, oh, I get what's going on. And I'm like, oh, wow. Yeah, that happened. And I can understand why. It's like you felt like you need to step in and that I needed to be angry and push out when I felt this way because otherwise I felt so small and worthless. So I'm curious now, you mentioned there are questions. And I know these questions that I'm sure you ask and explore when you're working with somebody. Are there some questions that you might be able to share? Oh yeah.

That we could think about to sort of explore this? Yeah, and absolutely. And that's why it's so wonderful. I just want to share that IFS is awesome because it's really something that people can explore on their own. They can go to a facilitator, a practitioner about, and so there's free meditations, there's there's all kinds of tools and these these questions are freely publicized. So you can definitely do the work on your own. But I will say it can be hard when we're so in that place that's known as being blended with a part, which is where it's just like, this is me, right? I don't understand. It's just like, yeah, I hear these different,

yeah, I wanna go out, yeah, I don't wanna go out. But it's still, this is me. It's really hard, I find, to have the support to turn inwards and get enough space from like, let's say my angry part, especially because some of these emotions can be so strong. But one of the magic, I just love this question, and it's so cool too because there's this whole neurobiological aspect to it.

So like this, I got my angry parts up and it's like, let's say I just yelled at my husband or something and I went into the next room and I'm just like, what's going on? I'm like, I'm so angry, I could kill him. And then it's just like, I noticed it's just like, okay, yeah, I'm feeling really angry. And then it's just like, okay, well, how do I feel towards this anger that I have? So the magic question is how do I feel towards? And neurobiologically, it's so cool that because that word towards, it's not how do I feel about, it's towards.

Because it's like we have all of these different parts of our brain and they light up at different times for different reasons. That word towards helps light up, like I think it's your prefrontal cortex, and it helps to light up this part of your brain that is a bit like the witness consciousness. And that's the part of the brain in which could feel compassion or self-compassion. And it distances and it creates some space. Like as I keep saying, we got to kind of create space, especially when it's like, I'm so blended with my anger. So I'm so infuriated. It's like, well, how do I get some space from this? Because when I get some space, this happened to me earlier today,

it's just like, oh, all of a sudden I feel calmer and then I feel more creative. And I'm like, oh, well, actually, you know, this guy's coming to repair something and he can come, you know, at two o'clock after this podcast interview. But I didn't, when I was just all like, oh my God, when's he gonna come? I didn't have access to those qualities of the self-energy, this core essence, which has those qualities of that creativity, clarity, calmness, courage, curiosity. So that's when our lives can really change, right? Like I was saying before, it's like people would say, well, you know, just love your inner child. Well, how do you do that? You know, and how do I make the change in my life where I not, you know, when, when something happens where I get activated, I don't immediately like lash out. Like I, when I was a child,

I was lashed out at. And so, so how do I actually make that change? And it's just like, oh, okay. Yeah, wow. It's like, you know, I feel like some healing has happened because it's like, I can sit here and I can, you know, have this thing that formally inflamed me and activated me. And now it's just like, oh, it's like, maybe something is like, so it's like, I'm upset about something when this happens. And it's like, okay, well, let me listen to you. What are you upset about?

Oh, that makes sense. Thank you for sharing that with me. And then it's like, I don't need to go to marriage counseling because I yelled at my husband. Yeah, I mean, the change in language, the question is, if I got it right, how do I feel toward this particular part or like the behavior that this particular

part is expressing right now, which does feel really different to me than how do I feel about. Like, how do I feel toward like the angry part rather than how do I feel about. To me, for some reason, my brain immediately goes into judgy mode. Whereas toward goes into curiosity mode. I don't – it's weird because I'm a language geek and it's a little weird to me that that's very what seems like a very slight change in language actually feels like it allows me to step into the inquiry just really differently.

Yeah. Even more exciting than that to me is the fact that there is a neurobiological, we have like proof in the science world and people love the science, right? And it's like there's proof that it lights up a different part of your brain. And this part of your brain is that kind of, like I said, that witness consciousness where there's this separation. It's just like, oh, and now I can feel compassion.

And one of the cool things is that also when you feel compassion, it drips this GABA, which is this really yummy neurochemical onto your limbic system, another part of your brain. And it's just all like, yum, yum, yum. And it just relaxes your whole system. And it's just all like, angry, who's angry? And so it's like, you know, and that's like, I guess, sometimes folks experience things like that when they get in touch with non-ordinary reality and altered states that come about through meditation or prayer states or shamanic journeys or, you know, psychedelics, all different kinds of ways in which we can

access that type of consciousness. Yeah. I mean, gaining access to that state is very cool. I actually just recently sat down with a neuroscientist who is doing research on out of body experiences. It's fascinating. She's literally examining what's happening in the brain during out-of-body experiences and showing these profound changes. But one of the things that the research was showing was that these experiences tend to give people access to

empathy and compassion, both towards themselves, like self-compassion, and also empathy towards other people. And that's kind of like, you're describing this without necessarily having an out-of-body experience. Like a change in language can sort of like create the distance that allows you to then see and experience and acknowledge this part that's within you, almost with more openness and empathy and kindness. And in doing that, then almost like sit down and have a cup of

coffee with them to like figure things out rather than go and fight it out and duke it out which is never gonna end well. Exactly or trying to put it in that box. Exactly. You got it and that's what I like to share with folks you know and like initial meetings is it's like oh it's like this is like a meet-and-greet you know. It's you're just going to get to know some of the folks inside of you. And you know, whoever shows up is who we're going to communicate with and learn more about. And so yeah, it's a little meet and greet, a little coffee clash. Absolutely sit down and have some coffee instead of trying to fight because like, it's like

you shared, it's just like trying to stuff it away, trying to repress it, trying to silence it, trying to fight with it does not work. Right. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Good Life Project is sponsored by Mosh. So I recently discovered Mosh bars, tried a few flavors and was hooked. The chocolate crunch has become one of my go-to's for afternoon fuel. Featured on Shark Tank, they really resonated with me also because they're not

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your seat when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.ca. So, do any of these parts ever actually go away? Not because we're trying to like extinguish them or you know, like, but do we ever reach a point where that angry part, that hurt part, you know, that's throwing a protection and maybe the protection is anger or rage, whatever it may be. Do we get to a point where we have that cough or we acknowledge it? We see the good intentions behind it. We acknowledge that, yes, this served a really important purpose. At some point in my past, that's no longer necessary. Does that part just stop acting in that way or does the angry part in you effectively just kind of sublime into the ether?

Yeah. And this is something that as one works with their parts, sometimes that's a fear that they have. It's just like, oh, it's just like, if I stop this role of implementing this strategy that no longer works, then am I devalued and then am I cast away from this system and no longer part of the family? So this is like the part basically making that argument. Yeah. And it's just like, it's so scary. Can you imagine?

It's just like, oh, I've been this key player. I've been running the show. And it's like, now I see that, you know, because we've been communicating, it's like, oh, I see. It's just like, this isn't working and it's not helping. And I actually do want to help you. I mean, I know that's why I started this whole job and you know, to begin with. And then, you know, as you communicate with them,

you, one of the questions is also, it's just like, oh, well, if you didn't have to do this strategy, which my example is like, you know, get all angry. If you didn't have to do that, what would you rather do? And then the part's like, hmm, I don't know, but it sounds good not to have to do that. You know, it's like it's because it's tiring and it takes up so much of our vital energy. And so one of the neat things about this is as this part gets healed, like this angry part gets healed through this process that I can share more about, then you gain, like I shared, these

parts have treasures and wisdom and gifts for us and they also have a lot of energy. So when we don't fight against them, that's like that now I got so much more energy because I'm not fighting. All the energy is going into the fight, right? And instead of this one having to do this job of me getting angry, I mean, obviously you can see like physically how much like energy that would take, then that vital energy comes back to me and can flow in my body, you know, again, the somatics and the energetics. So it can flow in my body and then I've got much more access to my life force.

So when that part then becomes healed, is that what you were describing earlier as unburdening or is that something different? Yeah, exactly. I just want to also share that there's parts within us that don't have any of these burdens of like an extreme belief or idea where it's like I'm intrinsically worthless. There's plenty of parts within us that are not wounded, right? And they're whole and they help us to live our lives. And then we've got these other ones who are trying to help us live our lives, but it's like that strategy doesn't work anymore. And it's pointing out

actually that there's a wound and there's an opportunity to do some healing. And that's why I say that it's just like being activated by like, you know, someone else or by something is a gift. You know, it doesn't feel like it. It's like all of a sudden I'm really, you know, I'm really freaking angry. So it's like, this doesn't feel like a gift, but it is a gift because it's like, that's a red flag where it's like, I have wounding in me and here's an opportunity to heal it because I can't heal it if I'm not aware of it. And when it pops up, I'm aware of it and it's real and it's on and with support, I can turn towards myself and I can actually

help that and heal. And so the healing process is where once the protectors have given permission, so the protectors and there's exiles, and then there's healthy ones, you know, are ones that have been unburdened of their wound and or never had a wound. And so once the protectors give permission, they're the ones who have this like a job or a role where they've got that strategy and they're enacting it and that's what kind of causes trouble in your life and within yourself. And they give permission for you to make contact with the exile who are usually these little children and like your inner child and you get access to the little ones and then you help heal them and it's all at their own pace

and it's in their own timing and it's not because it's just like, it's not like because I want to heal you and you're going to heal and I'm going to rescue you. That does not work. That's an agenda. That's just another part, right? And this other one's not going to buy it. The other child's not going to buy it. So it's like coming from that place of that calmness and clarity and compassion and curiosity, then it's just all like, you know, hey, I'm here for you. And there's this opportunity to let go of this heavy burden that you've been carrying, which in this example I've been using, is it's just like I'm intrinsically worthless and unlovable because I broke a plate and they yelled at me and I was too, right? So it's like we make the offer and it's just like, hey, you

don't have to do it, but I want you to know that there's a ritual that we can do and it can really help you out and you don't have to carry that, you know ritual that we can do and it can really help you out and you don't have to carry that. This is only after communicating with them and hearing what's been going on for them, what they're carrying exactly. That's the healing process. When that one is ready and if it wants to, it can let go of everything that it's been carrying or it might feel like it's like, you know what, I need to hold on to a little bit of this. You know, I'm not ready to let go of everything.

That happens too. So it's like, you know, like there's not a pressure where it's just like, you've got to heal and you've got to heal in a certain time and you got to heal completely, right? Cause what happened to us in trauma when we were little kids is that we didn't have any self agency. And so it's really

about it's like, that's where it says like, Oh, I might be calling it the angry part. But as I get to know it, the protector who's the angry one, as I get to know it, it's just like, Hey, what do you want me to call you? And it might say it's like, you know, sometimes people are like, it says the craziest things. Like, it's like, you know, forest cloud. It's just like, well, I don't know why, but it's just like, let's go with it. You got to watch out. Sometimes another part will try to name it, right? Or you'll try to name it because you're being another part.

And it's just like, that doesn't work. They don't want to be named by somebody else. They want their own agency. Because like I said, when I was a little kid, it's just like, I didn't have my own agency. So that unburdening process frees up this one who was exiled away from your system, from the internal family. And it frees them up and they let go of these beliefs that there's something wrong with me, and that it's welcomed in to that family again and connection, and that is so incredibly healing. And then neurobiologically, there's this cool thing. There's this thing called memory reconsolidation. So that actually happens in this unburdening process, and that's where

we've got our neural networks, and we've been doing something for 40 years. It's like, I've been getting angry for 40 years. And I've got this deep groove and path that my neural network, the energy flows down. And it's like, oh, it's like, when I get activated, this thing's going to happen. And so it's like, I'm a slave to my programming. And it's just like, I have to do this thing, because I think I'm afraid that this thing's going to happen. And so during this process, memory consolidation is something that happens naturally. But knowing about it, you can help support it. And it's consciously in EMDR, which is that eye movement healing modality. And then there's a bunch of modalities like IFS that didn't consciously know about it,

but it makes use of. So this is where it's so wild that science is backing all of this stuff up. And to me, it's also there's a spiritual angle to it. So the neural network is like, oh, I'm intrinsically wrong. And then it's like, oh, and yet it's just like, oh, like my core essence is caring for me. This is that little child who's just like, oh, I feel this terrible way. And then it's like, oh, here's an example of where I am being loved. And it's like, my emotion is not too much. And I am lovable exactly the way that I am. And I'm not, you know, I don't have to change how I am. And now the energy can start moving in that direction under the neural network.

And then the old pattern, that neural network shuts down. And so that's memory reconsolidation, where it's just like, oh, when I was that two-year-old child 40 years ago, this thing happened and I had been stuck, that part of me was trapped in time and space where it was always happening. And now it's like, we take that little one, that two-year-old out of that situation. And now it comes to be in the present moment with me

and it's free. And so that changes everything and then now the energy goes down this new neural network. So it's like this blending of this spiritual and neurobiological and mystical process. Yeah, I mean it sounds really powerful. One of the questions that's sort of like lingering with me is you described when you address the protector who sort of gives you access to the exile, which often is some form of younger version of you, maybe even early childhood where something happened, where they took

on a belief system. Like, this is my belief about my self-worth. And then you sort of like inquire into, are you ready to let this go without forcing it, without saying, it's time, you have to do this now. How do you know? How does the exile know when they're ready? Or how do we know when the exile is ready? I've got to say, they make it quite clear. All you've got to do is ask. Because you've been working on this internal relationship with the angry one and the inner child, and this can happen like in one 90-minute session, or it might be something

that happens over a couple different sessions. And you just ask them and they're like, okay, you know? Or they'll say, no, I'm not ready yet. And it's just like, okay, well, what do you need in order to be ready? And you don't ever have to be ready, right? That's the thing. It's like all parts are welcome. You don't ever have to be ready, right? That's the thing. It's like all parts are welcome. You don't ever have to change, right? It's just like, I accept you and love you the way you are. That's what we didn't get at the time of the trauma, right? We didn't get, I accept you and I love you the way you are.

So maybe even that alone has like an effect of allowing that part, that exile in particular, to start to reshape its beliefs. Absolutely. Yes, because it's like, oh my gosh, and that's that memory consolidation too. It's like, oh my gosh, I'm actually receiving the thing that I didn't receive. And it's just like, oh, healing, right? Yeah. Yeah. I have to say, it sounds so interesting. For somebody who's never heard of this before, they're probably following along this conversation

in part interested and part suspect. They're like, wait, really? Like seriously? Watch the movie inside out. There's a one and a two. Right. There's like a family dinner table inside of me and we've got all the dysfunctional people who are showing up and the functional people who are showing up. But it is interesting.

What's interesting to me is I've been sort of watching the body of work around it and it really has become, I mean, I feel like CBT has for a long time certainly been the primary mode of therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy. I'm just seeing variations of IFS and parts work really becoming a part of therapeutic offerings. Whether it's on the spiritual side, whether it's on the more traditional academic side, whether it's that there's something to modality when I start to see such a widespread adoption. Then I talk to people who have told me about just profound, profound shifts that

have happened after years of trying to make those shifts happen in different ways. I think the invitation here is to just be open to exploring because I think there's a lot of richness in the body of work around parts and around IFS and the way that different people are approaching parts work as well. If we zoom the lens out a little bit here, do you have a sense for what parts work might do for us at scale? I think we're in a moment in culture in the world right now where there is a lot of rage, there is a lot of anger, there's a lot of hurtness and pain and a ton of protection. I wonder if you think beyond the work that you do individually and with groups about the potential for these ideas at scale.

Yeah. First off, be the change you want to see in the world, right? When we talk about going scale, right? Yeah. First off, be the change you want to see in the world, when we talk about going scale. And then I just want to back to what you were previously saying, which is the difference between CBT and IFS is that IFS is experiential. And so it's just like, do not take my word for anything.

Go and try it. Learn a little bit and try it yourself. And it's just like the proof is in the pudding. So that's what's neat about it. And that's why it's such a dramatic shift. And it's like, what does the word experiential mean? It means that you're actually doing it instead of talking about doing it.

And that is a really powerful difference. And so I just want to encourage people, just there's so many different ways. Like I said, there's free meditations, there's all kinds of things that just like little tiny supports or tools to just try it out and see for yourself. And if you're interested, then you can go deeper. So as we have this conversation,

there's a lot of fear and anxiety and for some a sense of hopelessness or powerlessness for many. Those are probably, to a certain extent, you could say those are also parts of ourselves speaking. But as you said earlier, those are not the only parts of ourselves. We have playful parts, curious parts, hopeful parts. What inspires you and makes you feel hopeful and powerful these days? Wow. That's a good question. Well, I have really been doing the practice of IFS because

it's like I see it as like a, you know, IFS, it can be many things, like you said, very academic, very more, you know, kind of out there like I am, but I be many things, like you said, very academic, very more kind of out there like I am, but I see it as like a daily practice. And for me, it's a daily spiritual practice. And so getting to know my interior landscape and make friends within myself, it's just like I have seen, it's like I have become a better friend to other people. I've become a better person. I know myself so much more.

I can tolerate these different sensations. Actually, right before this podcast, I was just like, oh, I was feeling really nervous. I know there's some specific parts that I've worked with. I'm like, you know what? I just need y'all to give me some space. I just need some space for two hours. I feel you and I see you and I witness you. I'm going to come back to you in two hours and know that I'm still connected with you. But right now, I need space from this feeling of vibration in my body, of that nervousness. As I did that, then it's just like, oh, I felt like this, it had been in the center of my chest,

this vibration, this kind of high vibration. And then it moved out to my fingertips and to my feet. And so I was just like, okay. And so then I was like, okay, I'm walking and I'm feeling my feet against the floor and I feel this vibration. And then it's just like, oh, I'm stepping into my power. And it's like, oh, this shift from this nervousness, no matter what, I've got energy running in me, right?

And there's these parts that are like, oh, that energy is, we're nervous. And then it's just like, oh, but this energy also can be the excitement of empowerment of stepping into my power. And so it's just like, well, you well, how do I harness what's happening inside of me and communicate and be in community and be led? That's just an example from the activation of the energy in my body from being nervous or excited about coming on this podcast and how I utilize that. And I find that very empowering instead of being kind of like, like you said, it's like there's a lot of despair and hopelessness out there. And it's like, I may have that within me and I have other aspects that I can draw on and both can exist at the same time.

And I don't need to stop one from communicating with me in order to embody the other of that empowerment. I love that. It feels like a great place for us to come full circle as well. So in this container of Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase, to live a good life, what comes up? To live a good life, I say thank you. to live a good life. What comes up? Oh, to live a good life, I say thank you. Um, thank you. It feels like a blessing to live a good life. Yes. I say yes to that. Hmm. Thank you.

You're welcome. Hey, if you love this episode, say that you'll also love the conversation we had with Dr. Mario Buque about breaking free from inherited trauma. You can find a link to the episode in the show notes. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers, Lindsey Foxx and me, Jonathan Fields, editing help by Alejandro Ramirez and Troy Young. Christopher Carter crafted our theme music.

And of course, if you haven't already done so, please go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app or on YouTube too. If you found this conversation interesting or valuable and inspiring, chances are you did because you're still listening here. Do me a personal favor, a second favor, share it with just one person. I mean if you want to share it with more that's awesome too, but just one person even. Then invite them to talk with you about what you've both discovered, to reconnect and explore ideas

that really matter, because that's how we all come alive together. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project. Did you know that socks are one of the most requested clothing items by organizations addressing homelessness? It's true. And it's also why we started Bombas. Every time you buy, well, anything from Bombas, an essential item is donated to someone facing homelessness.

That's Bombas's one purchased, one donated promise. Bombas makes socks, underwear, slippers, slides and t-shirts all designed to feel good and do good. Since we're new in Canada, all new customers enjoy 20% off your first purchase. Just visit bombas.ca. That's B-O-M-B-A-S.C-A and use code music to start doing good and feeling even better. If you're anything like us, you love attention. And my favorite way to get all eyes on me is with next level shiny glossy hair. Which is why we're so excited to tell y'all about the new LaMeller gloss collection from the Gurleys at Tresemme.

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