Green Light with Chris Long - Barry Sanders! NFL Career, Detroit Lions, Retirement Decision & HOF Honor!

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

Barry Sanders! Chris interviews one of his NFL heroes in New Orleans during Super Bowl week. Barry revisits his NFL career, his decision to retire at a relatively young age, time with the Detroit Lions, thoughts on Dan Campbell and the Lions today, Lawrence Taylor and the toughest NFL players in his day and the honor of being voted into the NFL Hall of Fame. A tremendous episode and a great look into one of the NFL's greatest players of all time. Enjoy this conversation with Chris Long and Barry Sanders! (00:00) - Intro (2:04) - Toughest NFL Players (6:08) - Dan Campbell & The Lions Today (14:18) - Saquon Barkley (17:10) - Lions Playoffs in the 90s (25:10) - Early NFL Retirement (31:38) - Hall of Fame Induction (35:10) - Surpassing the 2,000 Yards Milestone (43:30) - Heisman Trophy (48:04) - Relationship with his Father (53:45) - Relationship with the Media (58:05) - Barry's Absolutely Correct SB LIX Prediction (1:01:07) - Battling Christian Okoye for the Rushing Title in 1989 Have some interesting takes, some codebreaks or just want to talk to the Green Light Crew? We want to hear from you. Call into the Green Light Hotline and give us your hottest takes, your biggest gripes and general thoughts. Day and night, this hotline is open. Green Light Hotline: ‪[phone]‬ In need of sweet threads to vibe like Chris and the fellas? Check out https://greenlightpodcast.org/ for everything merch wise and then some! Also, check out our paddling partners at Appomattox River Company to get your canoes, kayaks and paddleboards so you're set to hit the river this summer. https://paddleva.com/ Green Light's YouTube Channel, where you can catch all the latest GL action: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgxWFAA-wuB7osdiAJyLOcw Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So, yeah, I mean, to me, I felt like the timing was perfect. And it's just one of those things where, you know, it's kind of almost how you mark your life, you know, like you have your birthday, you know, going into the Hall of Fame is one of those things where, you know, because I didn't play in the Super Bowl, right? So that's one of those things football-wise where it really just kind of puts a seal on the kind of career that I was able to have. Welcome to the Green Light podcast, presented by BetMGM.

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Welcome to the Greenlight podcast. This is a special one today, folks. This episode of the Greenlight podcast was recorded in New Orleans, and it's one of Chris's NFL heroes. Barry Sanders on the show today, and Barry is an absolute amazing interview. He goes through his entire career, gives us insight into his retirement decision,

what the Hall of Fame means to him, his college career, his relationship with his dad, and his relationship with his sons. A great episode for you. Enjoy it, and we'll have great. great content coming your way later this week. All right, this is nine-year-old me would be very proud, interviewing Barry Sanders in New Orleans for the Super Bowl.

Probably my favorite, maybe my favorite player ever. Welcome to the show, Barry Sanders. Thanks for having me, man. Great to be here. It is awesome seeing you here. And we've met once or twice before, one of them being when I was a little kid at the Pro Bowl, that's what my dad tells me.

When I was too young to remember, and I'll never forget the day he's like, well, I got you something. And he brought me a Barry Sanders jersey, signed by you. So I got that in my man cave. I appreciate that. Absolutely, man. I wasn't going to tell how we know.

Come on. Come on. Yeah. I looked up to him too. I looked up to that as well. I mean, I was a big Raiders fan. Were you? Oh.

Really? Man, kidding me? Yeah. Growing up? Absolutely. All Raiders. What was it about that? John Madden?

Yeah. Brad Belknitkov, you know, Cliff Branch, Dave Casper, Gene Upshaw, I mean, you know, Jack Tatum. I mean, you know, it's just, you know, oldest siftrunk, John Matusac, I mean, it just, you know, I was just, for some reason, I think they were always on TV. Yeah. There was always on TV and they were winning, you know, so you said nine years old for you, when I was, when I was, when I was not around that same age, that's when they were in the Super Bowl against the Vikings. That's right. I remember that, like it was yesterday. Yeah.

And so, yeah, for some reason, I wasn't, you know, they were in the same, they were actually in the same division as the chiefs. Right. I was never a chiefs fan. I lived right down the street or, you know, just not too far away. But anyways, yeah, I was big Raiders. You liked it when they beat the Chiefs. What's that?

You liked it when they came in time to beat the Chiefs. Well, they used to tell me about all the fights, the Chiefs and the Raiders got chasing each other in the tunnel and all that stuff. So it's a different day back then. A lot of fists flying around that day. Absolutely. Was there anybody when you got in the league, you talked about being a fan where you were kind of like, that's him. Like you look at him across the field and you're like, that's the guy I grew up watching.

That's guy seen on TV. When we played the Niners and that's right before Montana went to the Chiefs, then he would have been one of those guys. Montana, Lawrence Taylor. Yeah. You know, playing against him, my first season was pretty intimidating. Also, there's several guys, like Richard Dent. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, and of course, Mike Singletaro was on the same team, so there's several guys. Did LT actively try to intimidate you? Did he talk to you? He didn't have to. He didn't have to. But I remember he came up after the game, you know, and just said good game. Yeah. I mean, they won.

I mean, I could, that was one of those few times when I was on a football field where I just felt like, man, that's just a different class of a team because of Bill Belichick. Yeah. Bill, Bill Parcells, you know, LT and all those guys, Carl Banks and and Cars and all those guys. Yeah. And I just felt like, wow, that's a different class of a group over there than what we have, you know, so. Bill was showing, because I'm on inside the NFL now with Bill, and I could see him every week, and he was showing us old tape of the Giants closing backside on run plays,

and the way those guys ate up ground, LT, he used to fold on the other side of the line and run running back down. You know what I mean? I've seen that. Yeah, absolutely. I'm like, I've never seen that in my life. Yeah. You talk about range.

That's incredible. And, you know, and playing against them, it was intimidating, but certainly exciting, because it was like, okay, this is the best of the best. Yeah. You know, so I just felt like it was definitely an honor to be able to feel with them. And you can definitely tell a difference between them and others. So one of these years, man, I think the lines are going to be here.

And I've been pulling for them. I love Dan. Who doesn't? You know, I think they did a fantastic. I think Brad's doing a great job. And I think the injury's caught up to them this year. But when you watch them now, do you ride the highs and lows like a fan? Yes. Yeah. I mean, I definitely feel, you know, what the fans are experiencing. And the thing, you know, think about the current version of the Lions is that, you know, we, you know, me growing up watching the game and watching how there's certain teams, I feel like, that dominate certain eras. Yeah. Right. And so it's just kind of cool to see in today's version of NFL football, the Lions name is synonymous.

us with like Dan Campbell, you know, and Jared Gov and NFC championship and playoffs and, you know, more positive. Yeah. More positive things. The draft. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, more, you know, hitting, hitting on all their draft picks.

Yeah. Things like that, you know, so it is. But, but, you know, so you ask, you know, do I ride the highs and lows? I feel like there's definitely been more high as the last few years. And, and also, you know, and I feel like. you know, the last two years, we've been in that conversation. We've had at least an opportunity, right, to be here, to be at the Super Bowl in the big game.

And, you know, you can't, I mean, the amount of injuries we had is just unusual. You know, just, but at the same time, just watching the games this year was, you know, was very impressive to see how it seemed like so many of those games just looked easy. Yeah. Right. I mean, you know, when I played and just normal games, it feels like, you know, there's, you know, it's not a breeze. And I don't think it was a breeze for those guys. It just seemed like some of those games where we had maybe a lot of, a lot of turnovers.

Yeah. And we still were able to win. Yeah. You don't normally win those games. Five picks against Houston. Yeah, you don't know me win those games. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's how good you are. Yeah. You don't normally win those games. So things like that. But I'm encouraged. I'm certainly encouraged by that.

I wonder if you're sitting here all these years like, when are we going to be good? Then they finally get good and it's a running back led team. Is that something you take some pride in when you watch? Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I remember just when they brought in David Montgomery, they drafted Jimery Gibbs, you know, meeting those guys. And if you rewind to three, four years ago, the conversation still was about, you know, is the passing, you know, has the running game kind of gone on?

way it's more of a passing oriented league but every year those guys have been a big part right of the offense and offensive success it's just a a great combination that that they have great relationship you know and and this year was no different i mean jemir ended up with over a thousand yards just you know making all kinds of electric plays and montgomery you know before he got injured you know, just doing what he does. So, yeah, I do. I do take great pride in it, and it's great to see. And, you know, I mean, with the, with Penae Soo and those guys up a lot, I mean, you know.

The way they get to the second level, too. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, they have one of the best offensive lines, you know, and so they're not afraid to run the football, you know. And so, yeah, I love it. I kind of wonder how you would be used. any differently in today's game. Like you watch these souped up West Coast offenses,

all the motion, you know, the way they use Gibbs out of the backfield. Do you ever look at today's game like, man, I could have even been more dangerous? Well, I mean, I think there is curiosity. Like, I wonder, you know, I wonder how it fit into certain schemes. One in particular to come to mind for me.

It was like the Niners, you know, I see how, you know, I see how even though over the last 10 years, the conversation has been about, you know, the passing game, they've always been able to run the football. Yeah. You know, they've always been to run the football. And obviously, Coach Shanahan and, you know,

pretty much been the brain trust behind that. And so as a runner, you know, that's something that's always called my eye. Yeah. And all, you know, and just like there was no susting as RPO's, you know, back when I played. So I, so I think that would be, that would certainly be interesting for me to play in. And I think, you know, I think it would provide more opportunities and make it even more difficult for a defense. You know, and even like, you know, pistol formation, you know, if you were, you know, if you were, if you were in a shotgun, right, then you pretty much knew that a team was going to pass the ball back then.

But that's not the case now, right? Lyons are good in shotgun on third and six and run trap. Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So I think, you know, it's amazing just how much more creative. A lot of these offenses are and offensive coordinators, you know, the stuff they've come up with.

And yeah, we're sad to see Ben Johnson go. I don't know if that's part of the, you know, a conversation. Right. Well, I was wondering what do you think is going to happen next? but like I do think with that offensive line, you're always in the game. Right. You know what I mean?

Yes. If people said, hey, you know, what are you serving Ben Johnson? I said, is he going to be able to bring the offensive line with him to Chicago? You know what I mean? Good point. And I do think he did a hell of a job, but I believe in Dan. You know, it's a culture thing, man. Right.

You know, that's where it starts. And you've seen just how Coach Campbell has really changed the game. Yeah. You know, the amount of chances he's going to. willing to take, right? Unheard of back in the day, right? He's changed the game, man. You know, and really,

it just feeds on itself, right? Because now the players understand when they get in situations, it's not even a second thought. Right. And that does develop that culture and their confidence, right? And I think I certainly adds a great benefit

to the offense, you know, because, you know, I'm pretty sure you know, over the last few years, A lot of times the defenses are thinking, will they go forward in this case? And the lines are saying, no, we're definitely going for it. And the way we feel, I promise you, was if it's fourth and two and plus territory, I want you to punt it. Right.

That offense? Like, please, I'm not going to the sideline. Like, I know we're supposed to want to make the play here, but they're just so good in those situations. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So. Back when you played, if it was fourth and two, it'd say like the 42-yard line or something,

are you all just punting? Yeah, 99% of the time, even higher than 99% of the time. That's crazy. It's crazy. I mean, obviously, there was no such thing as analytics back then. Right. But, yeah, oh, you know, I mean, so yes. And so in that case, again, that's how Coach Campbell has really changed the game.

And you know what? Coming from where the lions were, you know, five, six years ago or whatever the case may be, you know, you understand that yes, I mean, in order to change the conversation, you had to take great risk, right? You know, you couldn't just necessarily do the same old thing everyone else is doing. You know, and so they got the players to do it. And they got to have the belief instilled by Coach Campbell, and they've been able to execute. Yeah. And a lot of times, even in the San Francisco game, last year, the calls were the right calls.

It was just execution. Right. And then the players back up, Dan. after the game and say, hey, that's what we do. Absolutely. You know? Absolutely. We were talking about running back value.

This is a big year for running back value. You know, it's not just the guys in Detroit, but like Josh Jacobs moving teams, having a great year. Saquan, obviously, Derek Henry. But the guy playing this Sunday reminds me a little of you. And I mean, that is a great compliment to him. Do you watch anybody today and you're like, I see a little bit of myself in him? I mean, Seekwon. He's, he's, you know, dynamic, awesome, just playmaker.

And, I mean, he's, he has, I guess, from when I've talked to him, have, you know, have made the comment that, you know, he's watched some of my stuff when he was younger or whatever. It looks like whoever he's been watching it, you know. It's been working. He took good notes. Yeah, he did. He took very good notes.

And I always sometimes struggle with that question because I feel like I watch so many great running backs coming up. that, you know, I borrowed so much from, you know, like a Tony Dorset or Marcus Allen or whoever else. And so I feel like, you know, even Gail Sayers and guys like that and, you know, people kind of give me the credit. Yeah. So I appreciate that. But, but yes, I think I see, I see in Sequin that kind of slippery elusiveness, speed, the power and, you know, jump cut. And just that anticipation. You know, and I also, you know, I see it in Jemir Gibbs, you know, and a few other guys.

But certainly, certainly in Sequin. And, I mean, he's really been able to this year, you know, kind of prove and show really the kind of player that he is. And he's in a setting where he's really just been able to thrive, you know, and I just love, I love sin it. especially with the conversation, you know, so much conversation around, you know, only, you know, only certain positions or quarterbacks are going to be able to win MVP or, you know, it's passing or an oriented league, whatever else the case may be. But, but, but yeah, so he's really just been able to drive and show the kind of talent that he is, the kind of player, the impact you can have on a game, you know, and, and I think in a lot of ways you could say, he's maybe found a throwback. Definitely. And, you know, a guy that was probably headed for some degree of burnout in New York.

I mean, you know, and people get mad in New York, I'm like, they did the best thing for him. Let him go. Right. Because it's good for football that he's on a great team and it's good for him. Because, as you know, losing not making the playoffs can be hard, you know. And so I was real happy to see him kind of get rescued, so to speak. Right. I know a big part of your career,

was it was hard. After what, 91 you get to the NFC championship? And then how many more times you get to the playoffs after that? I mean, we got to the playoffs. We were always knocked out in the first round. Yeah, first round. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, looking back, honestly, Chris, I mean,

I guess perspective kind of sometimes gives you a new look on things, but during the time it was very frustrating. Yeah. Right? you know, because, you know, I saw how, like, the Packers, for instance, you know, I feel like we were kind of neck and neck for a lot of years, and then they, you know, they got Brett Farb, then they went to choir Reggie White, you know, and players like that. And that's when they just kind of slowly built a winner.

Right. And I saw something similar with the Vikings. Of course, you know, we saw. And these are teams all in our division, right? And then we saw how the bucks, you know, assembled a winner when they won early 2000s Super Bowl. And so I realized that, you know, but again, at the time it was, you know, I just, it was, I didn't, I didn't mind going to a team who hadn't won because we, it was our opportunity to establish that, right? And so I think to some degree we did that, but certainly felt like, you know, we didn't do all that we could have done. Right.

You know, playing that 91 NFC championship game, I assumed after that, you know, that I have a chance to play in a lot of NFC championship games or playing a Super Bowl or whatever the case may be. And it just, it's just amazing how the year, you know, the years slipped by. And you just get knocked out of the playoffs. You know, you and I were talking about Lomas Brown earlier.

I think it was 95 when we, once again, we made the playoffs we we first round game in philly yeah and we were heavy favorite to be philly really and we go up there and we just and the reason i'm missing lomas because lomas did something out of character he actually he actually predicted we were going to win yeah right in the media he's like oh now this is a you know sure win or whatever um and we go up there and they're their their filly's quarterback is rodney p who had been in detroit and they scored like 50 something points on us. And I don't know if they, if you add up their whole, you know, the total offensive scores for the whole season that they had 50, you know, that they had 50, you

know, in the playoffs, first round of the playoffs, you know, I just couldn't, I couldn't believe my eyes. But just things like, you just, you just never know what's going to happen. That's why, that's why when you step on the field, when you get into the playoffs, you have to, you know, take advantage of it and understand, you know, that it's not a given. Yeah. And so, but yeah, After that, you know, and so, yeah, there were, there were those sort of ups and downs. And it was frustrating, but, you know, you know how it is, man. I mean, that's, the game is competitive. You know, there's no promises.

Right. You know, my good buddy, Derman Thomas, who plays for the bills, you know, they got their four straight years. And, you know, there's, I mean, you could, you could have bet the house, right? you know, before, you know, you would have bet the house that at least one of those years, they were one. Yeah, what's the probability of that? Yeah, I mean, what's the chances of going four times, right? So it just shows you, you know.

It's a perplexing game in that sense. And it's just hard to believe. And that's why the current version of the Lions, you know, have changed the conversation because up until just recently, you know, people would always refer back to the last playoff win for the Lions against the Cowboys at 1991 season. Yeah, my goodness. And my dad

he went back and talked to a group of players and I said, what did you tell him? This was like 10, 15 years ago. And he goes, well, I told him, you know, when I was a second year player, whatever it was, I got in the league and we went to the Super Bowl and we won the thing and we said, we're going to be here

all the time. And do not miss the opportunity to be where your feet are. because it is not guaranteed. And he said, you know, closest he ever got again was AFC championship against the Bills, one of those years. And they got the way you talked about getting y'all's butts kicked by Philly, I think they lost like 51 to 3 up there in Buffalo.

So you just never know. You just never know when it's the last time, right? Absolutely. You don't know when it's the last time. You don't know when it's someone else's time to shine, you know. And I saw, you know, when I think back, you know, so some of my frustration is, I would say, tempered by the fact that, I mean, you look at the teams that won in the 90s. We talked about giants, right? We talked about, you know, the Redskins, the Cowboys, the Packers who went back to back.

The Broncos. I may be missing. I'm missing a team or two, but some just really, like, if there weren't dynasties, you know, They were close to it. Yeah. You know, and so I don't know that, I don't know that we were ever better than any of those teams, honestly. You know, and the best thing I can say about 91 is that, you know,

that Reskin team that beat up on us in the NFC championship game went on to beat up on the bills. It does make you feel a little better, doesn't it? Right. It makes you feel a little better. I mean, it just gives you a little perspective. Yeah. You know, give you a perspective. Who are the guys from that era that kind of got, you know, for, you know,

younger Lions fans who didn't grow up in the 90s and are enjoying this success now. Who are the guys that kind of paved the way outside of you that maybe people don't remember as well as they should from those teams? From the Lions teams? Oh, I mean, you know, you would have to look at, a lot of people think about like the coach,

Coach Fons, Wayne Fons was the coach for a lot of those years. But we had great players like, you know, my oldest boy, he's 30, you know, So he was like four years old when I finished my career. So some of his favorite players still are like, you know, Herman Moore. Yeah, you know, and guys like that, Scott Mitchell.

Yeah. You know, we had, there was a quarterback named Eric Kramer. Yep. Who had played with this, you know, Jerry Ball. You know, I played with guys like my first year was Eric Hipples last year. You know, Eric Hipple was a quarterback. He played many, many years, the Lions. I mean, I just missed Billy Sims by a few years, right?

Billy got hurt in mid-80s. One of my childhood heroes actually from, you know, he played at the University of Oklahoma won the Heisman Trophy, but he was a great all-time line, great. There's a lot of guys. I mean, Lynn Barney, you know, Greg Landry, you know, so I feel like a lot of great personalities and, you know, people that, like, hardcore Lions fans remember, you know, but we have some, we've had, you know,

has some really good players come through there. Herman used to do a charity basketball game. Yeah. On campus. Yeah. Yeah, that I would go and play in. So you've been there. Yeah, I've been there.

No way. Yeah, I've been there. And it was kind of cool because I think, like, Ralph Samson. Yeah, Ralph. Ralph, still around. Yeah, he would come. Can't mess him.

Yeah. And I don't know if it was Stokes or somebody, like one of those little point guards that was maybe the last team. But then John Crotty. Crotty. I mean, I played against Crotty. No way. I played against Crotty.

No way. Yeah, I played against Crotty in one of those charity games. It's a nice first. Yeah. Yeah, it was, you know, it was one fun time, man. That's so great, man. Yeah. So, you know, for you, how many that ended up being, 11 years, 10 years?

10. 10? 10. 10. You know, the thing I always think about is, as a kid, I'll almost never forget when I heard you were done. and you know you always think about when you're as good as you are you just enjoy being the best ever for as long as you can but now that i'm a player and i played 11 years i know what it feels like to feel like it's time you know and i wonder for you with doing a summer retirement kind of

when you knew it was time like what were you doing when you knew it was time like what was the thing that pushed you over the edge or was it like just a slow All right, I'm good. Because the quote I have here is, my desire to exit the game is greater than my desire to stay in the game. And I might be paraphrasing, but was it just that simple? Was it that simple? Were you just pragmatic about it?

No, it was tough, man. It was a tough decision. And probably the beginning of year 10, maybe some in, you know, before that, but beginning of year 10, I'm thinking, man, I don't, you know, I'm not too sure about this. Yeah. You know, like, I mean, this kind of rebuilding, it's just not, you know, and just that thing, that drive, that passion to, like, continue and to compete.

And also maybe some of it will, you know, is, you know, is it even worth it, right? Physically? The picture doesn't, not physically, just the picture, like, okay, you know, you know, construction of the team wise. You know when a team is like rebuilding. Yeah, you know, yeah. And you're, you know, and you're like, I mean, it's different. It's different if you're like in year one. Yeah, exactly.

Or just, you know, so that's a factor. That's a factor. But also just, you know, I put in 10 great years. I know what it's like. I had a chance to live my dream. And, you know, and just had burnout, had enough of it, you could say. And just as a player, you know, because. So yeah, so I think I think that's where I was after year 10.

And so it wasn't, it wasn't something just sudden. I think it was more gradual. How many more you think you had physically in you? Maybe two to three. Yeah? Yeah, maybe two or three, you know, everything went perfect. Yeah. You know, obviously you never know in that game.

You know, if I could have, if I could have brought over, you know, maybe guys like Willie Roe for something like that, you know. Get you a Willie Roe for. two. But, but no, but, but, but yeah. So, um, maybe two or three, but, but, um, I still felt like, um, I probably wasn't, um, I probably wasn't as fast, maybe or jittery, you know, at year 10, but I feel like maybe I was a smarter runner or more patient, you know, and, and just knew the game a little better. And I, I, I think, like, conditioning wise, I think I was better condition or at least knew how to get there at year 10 that I would have known in like year

one and two yeah but but yeah so I just I just think you know over over that you know that last year or two feeling like yeah I don't I don't know that how much longer I can really you know go for it and stay in the game and do all the little things that it takes to be on top right and really have a chance, a purpose in being there to win, actually have a real chance of winning something. If you're not sure, it's too hard. It's not like playing, no offense to like another sport, but it's not like playing baseball.

Right, right, yeah. Like, people are hitting me. Yeah. Like, I got to love this. I got to love it with every ounce, you know what I mean? Imagine that. I mean, guys like you. Yeah.

You know, hitting the guy like me, man. I don't know that I'm going to be able to catch you, bro. Right. I don't know. I mean, well, that's the one thing you had going for you. I bet you were really hard to get a good shot on. I tried to be. Yeah.

I try to be pretty hard. Yeah. Yeah. I try to at least make it a challenge. Yeah. Well, who was the guy, who were the guys that got the best shots on you? And was Chuck Cecil one of them? Did you play against Chuck?

I did. He was one of my coaches. I did play against Chuck. In St. Louis. He used to light you up, man. He used to headbutt me before the games. And one day, did you see him in the news recently? Not recently, but I'm in Arizona.

It's not a bad thing he's in the news for. Right, yeah, yeah. He's in Arizona, crazy-ass Chuck, headbutton one of his players before the game. Right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Turns he's got blood coming down his face. I said, the last time I saw that was literally when he head-butted me in St. Louis in 2012. That's the Chuck that I know in love. Yeah.

That's the Chuck that I know in love. Did he come down hell or what? Oh, man, like a missile. Yeah. Like a missile, man. But, I mean, I don't, you know, I'm sure Chuck, got me a few times. I don't know if it was like a clean shot that he was known for.

Yeah. But, you know, you think about guys, like, and, like, running lot was kind of the end of his career when I played against him. You know, John Lynch played against him a ton. You know, I mentioned Reggie White. Yeah. You know, Reggie, you know, he was almost unblockable. Yeah.

When we played those guys, just a dominant force. You know, I mentioned LT and guys like that. I mean, we played. again some some historically great defensive players you know Charles Haley you know and some personalities what's that yeah absolutely yeah and the other one I was wondering John Randall right absolutely yeah was he was he was he did he just go the whole game he just went the whole game because you got a front row seat to John Randall miced up which to me that's solid gold he said he said he said so much John did it's hard to even I already even remember what

What are you saying? What was he talking about? What are you saying? Yeah, he was his, yes. I mean, his, of course he had a motor. You know, he didn't, didn't just have, you know, he wasn't, his mouth wasn't just running. I mean, the guy had a motor on him.

He was coming every play. Yeah. You know, he obviously is a Hall of Famer, you know, and got so much out of, out of that little package, you know, that he has. But a lot of, yeah, like you said, just a lot of great personalities and great, great players. So when you go into the Hall of Fame, you're, what, 30, Was that?

Do you remember how old I was? I saw it in Wikipedia. That's right. So it must be true. Math-wise, right, because that's about 20 years ago, 20, 21 years ago, yeah. And somebody who watched my dad go in, I was 13 when he did, and I know he waited a couple years.

And, you know, like, it was cool. He was at the time, maybe early 40s. But I feel like y'all were so young. In a way, where you're like, man, I wish I could have had more perspective to enjoy. or were you like just ready for it and and it's all the same for you getting in at 36 or if you had to wait a little longer? You know what I mean? If you were a little bit older, would you feel like you could savor it more? Or were you in a place in your life where you really could like stop and smell the roses?

No, I feel like I could stop and smell the roses. I was looking forward to it. I was, I mean, I understood the significance of it. Yeah. And what it meant not just to me, but my family, my dad, my high school coaches, you know, and family, friends, whoever, my teammates. So, and then, you know, just what the game has meant to me. Right. And just, you know, being an early fan of the game. And like I was talking earlier about John Madden in the 1977 Super Bowl.

And all those eras where I just follow. the game religiously and followed the players and the impact it had just on my life. So, yeah, I mean, to me, I felt like the timing was perfect. And it's just one of those things where, you know, it's kind of almost how you mark your life. You know, like you have your birthday, you know, going into the Hall of Fame is one of those things where, you know, because I didn't play in the Super Bowl, right? So that's one of those things football-wise where it really just kind of puts, a seal on the kind of career that I was able to have.

Who was the guy when you walked in that you're like, because my dad always talks about walking in and just like, there he is, there he is. Who is like the most impressive cat that you met at the Hall of Fame? Oh, man. I mean, it would be, it's tough to say, but, but. Who do you look forward to cutting up with every year? Well, I mean, a lot of the guys that kind of have had a chance to know, but like for me, I know my year that I went in, you know, Tony Dorset happened to be there.

Yeah. Right. And so, you know, I remember, you know, watching him win the Heisman Trophy at the University of Pittsburgh and following him. And then guys like Roger Stalbock, you know, I mean, that was my former of years of watching the NFL. And, I mean, he was, he was like the face of the NFL in the 70s. him and Terry, you know, Terry Bradshaw guys like that. And I wasn't, I wasn't a Dallas Cowboy fan. Right.

But Roger was such, you know, he was such a great competitor and winner. And he annoyed me so much as a kid, but as I grew older and realized, like, the journey that he traveled in the military and, uh, and just how great of a player he was. You know, I had to just give him, you know, so guys like that, you know, for me, uh, was where I had that kind of reaction. I would imagine another one of those moments, like life-to-finding moments would be 2,000 yards, that game. Like, just hearing about it, people described you as not really wanting the accolades,

not being concerned with them. You were all about being humble and working. But it sounded like you could enjoy that a little bit. Oh, absolutely. I mean, it was one of those things where, you know, I'm fortunate. I played with a group of guys. You know, the center on that team has got him Kevin Glover. You know, I've been with him all my career.

And that was my ninth season out of 10. And then there was a few other guys. You know, I'm not going to be able to name all that Lyman. But there was a Mike Compton. Yeah. You know, right? I know right? You know right?

Yeah, yeah, UVA. There you go, man. Another UVA guy. That's right, right, yeah. Another UVA guy. Yeah. It was a Larry Thorpe. There was, you know, and it was, you know, I mean, I wasn't, you know,

I knew that I had come close to 2,000 yards earlier in my career, and I knew how, you know, it wasn't a given, you know, and so, but I knew that, you know, my offensive lineman, you know, they wanted it. I knew, obviously, it was a great honor to be able to do it. I had started off really slow that season, you know, the first two games I had 50-something yards, and they were just old.

those rumblings that, you know, have I lost a step, this and that and the other. And also, you know, just to be able to be mentioned with, you know, guys like Eric Dickerson. Yeah. You know, and obviously OJ had been the first to do it, you know, and several have come after that. But no, it was a big deal. That was a big deal. Because of the timing of it in my ninth year and also just because of what it means and how difficult it is, you know, and I talked about all those great defensive players

that I played against. So, you know, to be able to do it, you know, against, you know, great defensive players and on this level was a big deal. And against Bill Belichick? I mean, the last, you know, last hundred or so yards and change was against. Yeah, to finish it.

Bill Belichick and Bill Parcells. Yeah, and the bills. And it wasn't looking good initially. It wasn't looking good at first. No, it wasn't. That day started slow. I mean, I think, I don't know how many yards ahead at halftime, but it wasn't that many.

I wonder, I wonder, like, the night before game, I don't know where your headspace was, but I kind of wonder, like, did you go to bed like with the number in your head? Like, were you like, hey, tomorrow's big day, I'm going to do it. Or was it just kind of like, I'm going to put my head down and see what happens. For me, it was more kind of see what happens because we were also, you know, it's another one of those years where, you know, we were, I don't know, we probably finished nine and seven or something like that, you know, and we were, and we needed that win. to go to the playoffs. Right. I think we were, you know, we were fighting for playoff positioning. So, so that was, I think that was more of the priority.

The main thing. Yeah, but, but, but yeah, I mean, you know, but obviously that was certainly, um,

something that we also wanted to accomplish, you know, so that would have been, it would have been, you know, at the top of the list, not, not the top,

the very top priority, but it would have been up there. Did you sign your cleats or something for one of your buddies and just, I heard a story that after that game, you signed your cleats and gave them, O. Lyman instead of holding on them. See, you already remember. No, no, no.

That's how chill you are about. I know that I know that with a person who told me they had my cleats is Herman Moore. Yeah, Herman said he has, he has, he has, he has, how to get a hold of him. Well, his locker wasn't that far from mine, so. He lifted those off you. So he told me, yeah, he's like, yeah, you know, if you ever wondering where your, your shoes are from that game, you know, I got, you know, I have a good idea. That's so good.

Yeah. If you ever gets in trouble, eBay, man. Hey, a million dollars. So when you watch something like Sequin this year and that last game, you know, it was a big buzz in Eagles media and like all around the city like, should he play, should he not play? Should he rest? Should he not rest? Because he was chasing a different thing but a record, right?

And I kind of wonder as you watch considerations like that in today's game, are you like, come on, just play? Or do you understand like the new way of football, the way it's a little bit more like, hey, we're going to rest guys, week 18. Yeah. Yeah. I was impressed that he didn't play. I was impressed. I mean, I was a little surprised because I, you know, but I understood why he didn't.

Yeah. I thought it was kind of cool that he didn't. You know, I saw the, saw the relief on Eric Dickerson's face. Yeah. I saw the relief, but, but no, I completely understood. I understood why. And, you know, I thought it was kind of a classy move. Yeah.

But, you know, hey, look, everyone's motivated by different things. And, you know, he's, I mean, he had a fantastic historic season. Yeah. And obviously, the fact that we're here in New Orleans having this conversation, they had so much more to play for. Yeah. Obviously. But it has a lot to do with him.

Absolutely. The fact they're here. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think it was, I think it was the right. move. Yeah. The other thing in today's game that's way different, not just like the load management aspect of it, guys getting a break. Like new CBA, we don't, we don't have pads on all week. We don't, you know, it's just different. But one of the things is way different. I want you to take on with

celebrations because you're known for like, you're the ultimate handballed official guy, like show some class. Actually, you've been there because you've been there a many times. You see celebrations now. Do you have fun with it? Can you allow yourself as a spectator to enjoy it? Yes, I've always enjoyed them. Yeah. Yeah, I've always enjoyed them. You know, I've always, even going back to like Billy White's Hughes Johnson, you know, and guys like that. And the Smurfs and, you know, list goes on and on.

Yeah, the Ikey shuffle. Yeah, Ike shuffle. There you go. So, but, but yeah, I mean, it's interesting just to see how far it's come. Some of the choreography. The group celebration. Yeah, I was like, wow, okay. We're running to the end zone after every turnover now.

I'm tired. Yeah, right. We gotta go back on defense. I know. I mean, that's a lot of, it's like they put a lot of, a lot of effort in practice. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. But, you know, I mean, so yes, to a degree, I think I can enjoy it. Yeah. You know, and because generally you're celebrating because something good happens, you know, but, but, but yeah, there's, there probably should be, you know, some, some, some, some things are more worth celebrating than others. That's it. Yeah.

Yeah. That's the point, you know, but, but, hey, that's how the game was changed and has evolved. And you want people to have fun. Absolutely. Right. You see guys pulling Sharpies out and Joe Horn had a cell phone. Yeah. And T.O.

And all the T.O. stuff. Yeah, I mean. Zeke jumping out of the Salvation Army bucket. Yeah. I mean, you know, they've taken these celebrations to the only level, man, for sure. If you had to do one, would it just be a little bit? be a spike. If they just made you celebrate, they said, Barry, you get one more touch show.

It would be a spike or, you know, a toss into the crowd, you know, a nice, you know, nice pass or throwing, you know, up into the, do they, do they find you for that anymore? No, but the funniest thing that I feel like happens every season is somebody will, like, break a record or it'll be their first touchdown. And, you know, like Mike Evans threw Tom Brady's. What was that ball? Some record breaking ball. Right. And then Mike Evans, you know, He just chucked it to the stand. He's going to the stands. He sure did.

So then they send somebody up to be like, if it was the Eagles, they send up like Big Dom. And they say, hey, can you go negotiate, you know, this touchdown ball back? So it's like, man, you can't even keep up now. Can't even keep up. Yeah, I mean, you know, Tom, you can't, you got to have that one. You got to have that one back. Do you have a, besides like.

Tom has a nice collection, too, by the way. Oh, so, yeah, he's got a lot to celebrate. I don't think he's losing sleep over one of the record. Um, besides like your gold jacket, do you have a piece of memorabilia that means a lot to you? Yes. I mean, the Heisman. The Heisman trophy. Um, just because, you know, I just kind of came out of nowhere.

Yeah. Um, and, um, didn't have a ton of scholarships, um, coming out of high school. And, you know, I just would have, um, I was on no one's list of, you know, preseason list of Heism trophy winners you know a couple guys you probably recognize Troy Akeman and Rodney Pete

were the two front runners that year you know and you know guys like you know that was Dion Sanders senior year and stuff like that you know and I had the previous year you know I had

done great as as Thurman Thomas's backup you know and then full time like kick returner you know had made it All-American as a kick returner And, you know, I just, I didn't know that it could get better than that for me, honestly. Well, I heard a quote from Barry Switzer, and you might know this quote, but he was like, hey, guys, do not hurt Thurman.

You won't touch Barron. He's like, please, whatever you do, tackle him, but do not hurt it. I don't know if Barry ever said that, but that, you know, that's what I've heard. Yeah. And that's a great compliment. Yeah. But anyway, so, but, so to answer you a question, oh yeah, when in the high has been, And just the way my life changed after that.

And, you know, just, again, being a football fan and watching all those great hygid trophy winners before me, you know, I mentioned guys like Roger Stalbach, but even like in my more former of years, like Earl Campbell and Billy Sims and Marcus Allen and Tony Dorset. Yeah. You know, and even like, you know, Benny Testaverty, Doug Flutie, you know.

And so I'm that guy sitting there watching this, you know, every year and cheering on my favorite players and to find myself in that position, you know, as a junior in college, it was just beyond anything I could have ever made. It's like another fraternity. You're in the Hall of Fame. It's like a brotherhood. No, it is.

You got to do it. And I was sitting with a Hizmann trophy winner on the plane here, randomly George Rogers. Okay, yeah, Big George, yeah. Big George. He was the nicest dude in the world. Yeah, absolutely. It was him and Charles Woodson, and then me in one C, I was like, hey, I feel a little out of place here.

These guys are amazing. No, you're right at home. No, right at home, man. But he was the nicest dude in the world. Yeah, he is. Big George, yep. You know, the other thing that I really got to kick out of was like, your dad seemed like such a, like just an amazing character.

Like, he just seemed like, like, you know, from everything people talk about in the documentary in the whole thing, but the one thing, wasn't he a big OU fan? Yes. So did he like burn all his stuff after they didn't offer you or like, did he kind of just play both sides of it once you left Stillwater? No, he didn't play, he never played both sides of it. He was, he was, you know, like he would always say, you know, this will tell you a little bit about him.

He was like, hey, look, man, I was an OU fan before you were born. I was an OU fan before you got to Oklahoma State. You know, I'm always going to be an OU fan. But I hope, you know, I wish you well. Hey. That was my dad. That's so funny. Yeah, that was my dad, man.

You know, so there was no, there was no bigger, more important person in the world for him than very Switzer, a long-time coach of Oklahoma Sooners. You know, that was his team. And, you know, so there was nothing in like till, yeah. So, and it only got really uncomfortable, like, my junior year. when I'm in the Heisman trophy race. Yeah. And, you know, we're about to play University of Oklahoma, you know. Yep.

And he's, you know, and he's going on and on about how much of a fan he is. And he's not, you know, he's not pulling for Oklahoma State. Wild. Talk about a guy with loyalty, though. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's absolutely loyal. Yeah. Absolutely loyal, you know.

You know, so, but hey, look, that was him. I always knew what they expect. Yeah. You know. But yeah, that was a little uncomfortable. And, you know, I'm just unfortunate we couldn't beat him that year. What was it? I mean, you know, like I got a special relationship with my dad, you know, the whole thing.

And he helped me so much coming up and teaching me the value of hard work and all the, you know, the stuff that gets you through the tough days. And it sounded like your dad was just such a force in your life, man, like just such an awesome dude. Absolutely. Like, what were the lessons? that he taught you that stuck out the most when you were coming up? Well, one, I spent, I was fortunate enough to spend, spend just a ton of time with him. Yeah. Just because of the kind of work that he did,

like, you know, he was kind of a handyman. So, you know, from the time I was, you know, I don't know, teenager, then I would go with him a lot of times. And, you know, I have to help him out, do whatever, you know. Um, and so, uh, and so obviously that was the lesson in and of itself, you know, just seeing, you know, seeing how he worked, seeing how I had to work, uh, put forth effort, um, you know, and so, um, and so, but I mean, you know, he was, he was a type. I mean, I mean, there's so much I learned from him, but, um, just, you know, hey, look, be confident. Um, he, he loved himself. Yeah. You know, and, um, um, um, and, um, um, um, and he value, you know, and I really understood the value of the relationship of being a parent, the pride.

He took pride in being a parent. Yeah. You know, he took pride in it, and he made it, you know, clear that this is important, what I'm doing here, you know. Intentional about it. Oh, yeah. It's like every day is an opportunity to teach your kid something

or, you know, like, you know, just everything's an opportunity and showing them love every day. You're just building them up and you're watching this person grow, man. Right. And you got four now, right? Absolutely.

And he was, and he was, and he was, and he was pretty clear just about, hey, look, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm not always going to be your friend. Yeah. You know, and so it's not always going to be comfortable. Yeah. Were you able to, were you able to take that into your fatherhood experience? Because I mean, some, you know, I got to some degree. I want to be my kid's friend. Right.

Yeah. But I know there's times where you got to be the heavy and. you know another thing i don't think not not to the degree that he did no yeah i mean you know um but i may maybe you know but yeah because that was a different day different time whatever no question but but i certainly just being present and you know trying to have a a good relationship and and understanding that um that to some degree you know my twist on it is it is it does become kind of a partnership right um and and you are, even though you are the adult, you know, you still have to serve the needs of, you know,

um, your kids. At least, at least, you know, that's kind of how I see it, you know, because, um, you know, it wasn't just his influence. It was my mom's influence. You know, she was much more softer, um, you know, and completely different from him. My dad took all the credit for everything, you know, even though my mom deserved a lot of it, you know, which was just kind of funny. And she, you know, She was never looking for any any pads on the back or any credit or anything like that. But and I kind of have my, you know, I was kind of annoying because I had my personality more like my mom's. Yeah.

You know. Yeah, yeah. You know, so it was just that night. Super tight too. What's that? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it was, you know, it was funny.

It's kind of funny to look back on. Well, having four kids and I know you still got one of your boys is still playing, a couple of them still playing. One going to Toledo, right? Yes, he's going to Toledo. So we got another ball player coming up. You have a son that is still in high school playing. Same guy.

Yeah, the one in high school was going to Toledo. Yeah, and then I have one at Michigan State playing basketball. Michigan State playing hoops. So as athletes, like you understood the pressure probably it came with being your son, right? Like, was that a hard thing to prepare them for the spotlight, you know, having been a second generation guy and knowing some of the pressure? and, you know, the people that might want to see you fail, might think you have it easy, all that stuff. How did you go about preparing them for being your son?

Well, I think what I try to do is just kind of make them aware of, you know, that there was a such thing and there were expectations that people may have. I mean, it's not coming from me or it's not necessarily coming from mom or whoever else, but just out there, you know. And the thing that's interesting to me is that, that, you know, it really, a lot of times come down to the personality of the kid as well. Right.

Because, you know, I know my youngest son, you know, he's looked forward to the attention and, you know, the comparisons and all those kinds of things where some kids, you know, that could be, get to be a little uncomfortable. Yeah. You know, and he's embracing, you know, the whole world of the NIL thing and, you know,

whatever comes with it. That's a pretty good world. You know, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, it is. It's a crazy world. You could have made a lot of money. Oh, my God, yeah. You know, so, and even, you know, it's interesting, my son who plays basketball,

I mean, he can stay as a walk on. Yeah. But even he's been able to enjoy NIL. I'm like, how is this possible, man? That's amazing. How in the world, are you benefiting from this? So I don't know whether to celebrate it to be jealous or what, you know. What was your relationship like with the media?

Because, you know, people say, like, hey, you didn't, like, you weren't, like, ever a jerk about it. that you just didn't love the attention? Was that it? Like, or you just didn't wanna draw attention to yourself? I think it wasn't the most comfortable thing for me. Just because it's not, again, remember, you know, I mean, it's not that I grew up like, you know, in the 1800s or something like that,

but I feel like, but I feel like, you know, I grew up really not in the ESPN generation. I didn't have cable and ESPN. Well, ESPN wasn't what it is today, There wasn't 24-hour sports. Sports media wasn't really a thing. No podcast. I mean, you know, there were guys like Howard CoSale.

Yeah. You know, who were like journalists personalities and things like that. Al Michaels. But, you know, you didn't really see a lot of and hear, like, interviews and things like that. Other than guys like Muhammad Ali, you know, big athletes. Yeah. You know, that sort of thing. So it wasn't even something I was aware of or understood

that it was like a real thing that, you know. And so my first real introduction to it was like going to college and, you know, Coach Jones had a little weekly show that he would do. But it wasn't anything like national, you know. But I had heard of like, okay, there's like the New York sports media or the Philadelphia sports media or whatever,

but it wasn't something I had really interacted with. Yeah. Right. So when I was going through the Heidman Trophy, you know sort of the Heisman trophy voting and all of that and that was my first introduction to okay wow I mean these are you know these are some tough questions you know because I wasn't sure like at that time I wasn't sure if I was going to stay in school or come out and these guys were they were really like insistent you know and and just you know and sometimes I felt like just rude you know I just wasn't I just wasn't used to dealing with that but anyway so it took a while just to get used to you know you know, that whole side of it, you know, and I feel like it's just blown up and expanded, you know, even since then. But, but, and no one, I don't think, well, maybe some people could have predicted how big it

would become. Yeah. But, but, yeah, it just really wasn't a part of my consciousness growing up as a football player. Right. You know, that that was a part of it and that would be a part of it in the way that it is, you know, so it's a different world now. No question. Right.

You, you know, kids understand it that, no, that's, that's a part of it. part of it. You can, you can actually be a part of it yourself and have your own, you know, voice and things like that. You know, so yeah, that's the beauty of it. You know, we can get in on the action. Absolutely. They're all making money off us. Right. And there's nothing wrong with it's free market. You know, a lot of people love the game, but like it's fun to be able to leave the game and, and the game still pays you if you'll work hard at it. Absolutely. You know what I mean? And to get to have conversations like this, so many guys you see at the Super Bowl, you're like, let's just sit down and have a chat, man.

And I think it's real cool. I got a bunch of friends in the media now. But as a player, though, and I played in a small market in St. Louis, you know, I would not have been ready for, like, the Philadelphia market, the media market. You know, it's just different. Right. Right. I don't know.

Detroit was like that. Like, were they, was Detroit. Yeah. It was like, you know, it's like a big market media place. Yeah. For sure, you know, and you have those guys like Mitch Album. Yeah. Yeah.

who are nationally known and people like that. You know, so it's pretty demanding. And you get a real sense of like, you know, you know, sort of big city media, you know, and not everybody's your friend. You know, you have critics and things like that, you know, and it's a real education, you know, but in my formative years, that was not a thing.

Right. There was no such thing as that. Right. You know, so there was no, you know, like shows like sports reporters, whatever, you know, where you're talking about sports during the middle of the week, you know, you just, you know, didn't exist. So it's kind of cool to see how much it's grown, how much of the action, you know, athletes are getting in on, you know, and, you know, so, so it's definitely evolved.

What's your prediction for Sunday? Like, where do you lean on the game? I'm leaning. I'm leaning. I'm leaning. I'm leaning, you know, it's hard to, it's Tough to bet against Taylor Swift. You know, tough to bet against her. I know I found that out last week. I lost a little bit on the bill. Oh, you did? Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. She's tough to go against, man. But I, I think I, let me go with Sequin. Yeah. Let me go. I feel like, I feel like the Eagles might have more playmakers. They may have more playmakers, you know.

And I know, I mean, I cringe, you know, and hesitate picking against, like, you know, the heavy favorite. I guess they're the favorite. Obviously, they're chasing history. And I'm pretty sure the Eagles are, you know, they're more aware of that than anyone else. And they want to do something about it. You know, maybe they have more motivation this time around, you know, not that you need more. more playing in this game. Right.

I always love that question. Like, who's more, you know, like, who's more? I'm like, I don't think I could be anymore. But I'm motivated. It's the damn Super Bowl. You know, so I've, um, and this, obviously the Eagles, they, they've won it before. Yeah. And so, um, anyway, you know, so I'll, I'll, I'll go with Seekwan, um, and the Eagles.

The impressive thing about the Chiefs to be is, you probably remember in 91, like how long that season felt, you know, like going all the, you know, like going all the, way into, you know, February almost. Mm-hmm. And when I finally got to do that, I was exhausted the next year. You know, it took me a little bit to get back on the horse. Those guys, you know, doing that year after year, it's like the New England thing. The most impressive thing to me is they did that for almost two decades.

Right, right. Like, there's guys on those teams that played extra seasons, you know. Absolutely. When you add it up. Yeah. When you do the math and the games. Yeah. Because the offseason is already short.

I know. Right? It's already short. Yeah. And it's much shorter for those guys. And maybe that's a, I guess it's a benefit because you continue to play the game. You never stop. You know, but at the same time, just, you know, it's not like you get a year or if you get

four or five months, whatever it is. You don't, you don't always heal up from whatever it is that was bothering you the year before necessarily. You know, so, but, you know, we've had a chance to watch modern day dynasty. I mean, I would not have predicted that this soon after. after the Patriots dynasty that we'd see what we're seeing from the Chiefs. You know, I mean, it's amazing.

Because growing up in Kansas, right, and seeing, I mean, the Chiefs, they never won anything. It was always the Raiders or the Broncos or whoever else from that conference or that division. So yeah, there's a lot of happy Chiefs fans around there. So I just heard this story. When you had a chance to, I think it may be a rookie year, You had a chance to lead the league in Russian.

And they were like, hey, go back in there. I don't know if it was Wayne Fons at the time. Yeah, Wayne Fons. But he was like, go back in there and, you know, get this title. Right. And you said, no, we've won the game. I'm paraphrasing, but my work's done. The guy who was leading the league in Russian, do you remember who it was?

Yeah, Christian McQuay. So did that have anything to do with it? No. Yeah, it was just whoever it was. You just... Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, we were, I think, feel like the last few weeks, weeks of the season, we were kind of battling back and forth.

But that was, yeah, that was my rookie year. And had had a really good game, that last game of the year. Pretty much wrapped up rookie of the year, offensive rookie, whatever it was. And I guess Christian had played earlier that day. Yeah, that's what that was. So people are calling and saying, hey, you know, it's wrapped up. Right. Now we can just track it on our phones.

Right, right. And so they, at some point at the end of the game, they said, oh, you need, and I had had, I don't know, several touchdowns over 100 yards. And at one point they said, you know, and we were up by a lot. The game was over pretty much. And so it was like, well, you need so many yards to get the, you know, rushing record. Yeah, something like, yeah. And I was like, no, I'm good, man, you know, let's.

You like so I'm good, huh? It feels good to say I'm good. But you know what? Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't mean, just. The competitive part of the game was over. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, you know, so I feel like being second to Christian Acoyah wasn't such a bad thing.

And I still feel the same way today. I want to ask you a couple non-football questions before we get you out of here. The Pistons were in Detroit and they were dominant when you were there, right? You were on the tail end of that run, late 80s or early 90s. Did dudes hang out off the field? Did you see those guys out and about? Were you able to go to a bunch of those games? You know, now you see the Eagles are all courtside at the sixers.

Like the big thing is we go to the other team's game. Was it like that in Detroit at that time? It had to be pretty fun. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. No, I love the Pistons. Loved Isaiah Thomas.

Yeah. You know, Joe Dumars, Bill Lambere, those guys. I just love the NBA because, you know, I just remember. I remember that's the first time I met Larry Bird, you know, after one of the games, you know. And just that generation of NBA. And then obviously, Pissons won, you know, they won back-to-back titles in that time. And then a few years later, the Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton version as well. I love that team.

Yeah. I mean, I watched those guys. Absolutely, yeah. Larry Brown. There was no, like, superstar, I felt like, like, they were just all, like, dogs. Right, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, Larry just, he pulled it together every year, you know.

So I didn't hang out and see a lot of those guys. a lot, you know, away from that setting. But, you know, I mean, I know they were out there, you know, doing whatever. You know, it was their town. I let them have it. It was their town, yeah.

You know, so, but it was definitely cool. I went to a lot of games back then. Barry, I appreciate the time, man. This has been a lot of fun. Enjoyed it. Always love watching and play. And thanks for stopping by our Airbnb, man. Hey, thanks for having me, man.

I enjoyed it and let's do it again soon. I'd love to. I'd love to, man. I'll bite you with my friend.