Green Light with Chris Long - Bucs GM Jason Licht! Derek Carr's Retirement, Trey Hendrickson, NCAA To Approve Pro Sports Betting & An American Pope!

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

A blast and a half today from the fellas. We talk football and a whole lot of fun! First, Chris, Nate and Macon kick things off talking about Trey Hendrickson and the Cincinnati Bengals, the NCAA potentially lifting their ban on pro sports betting for college athletes, and Derek Carr retiring from the NFL. Then Beau welcomes on Jason Licht to talk about the 2025 Tampa Bay Buccaneers' draft class, Mike Evans and Baker Mayfield, Tom Brady's impact on the Bucs organization and wild FMK questions. We finish things off talking about Leo XIV, the American Pope! (00:00) Intro (2:38) Trey Hendrickson (17:20) NCAA's Pro Sports Gambling Ban (37:27) Derek Carr's Retirement (58:05) - Eagles vs Cowboys To Kick Off the 2025 NFL Season (1:06:06) Tampa Bay Buccaneers GM Jason Licht on Tom Brady, Baker Mayfield, Mike Evans and the Bucs 2025 Draft Class (1:47:15) Leo XIV, the American Pope Have some interesting takes, some codebreaks or just want to talk to the Green Light Crew? We want to hear from you. Call into the Green Light Hotline and give us your hottest takes, your biggest gripes and general thoughts. Day and night, this hotline is open. Green Light Hotline: ‪[phone]‬ In need of sweet threads to vibe like Chris and the fellas? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠the website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for everything merch wise and enjoy for 25% off your entire order in celebration of the 2025 NFL Draft! sitewide! Also, check out our paddling partners at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Appomattox River Company ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠to get your canoes, kayaks and paddleboards so you're set to hit the river this summer. Green Light's ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, where you can catch all the latest GL action: Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It was kind of like watching Babe Ruth in his final years, you know? I mean, the legend and didn't know how long he was going to be there. So I didn't want to let him down. I wanted to attempt to put the best team around him as possible. And then, I mean, he elevated the social media game. He elevated, you know, the business science. Sports science, ticketing. I mean, he elevated everybody.

And we're still filling the ripple effects. It's still, we still talk about, you know, it hasn't been that long. We tell the rookies that they always ask, a lot of them, most of them ask what was Tom like? And then we kind of go into stories out that you wouldn't believe how hard he worked. This didn't just happen by accident. Welcome to the Greenlight podcast presented by BetMGM. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code Greenlight.

And you will get up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code Greenlight. Deposit at least $10. and place your first wager on any game. If that bet loses, you will receive up to $1,500 in bonus bets. Just make sure you use Bonus Code Greenlight when you sign up. Welcome to the Greenlight podcast.

Hey, thanks for jumping on today. It is a blast and a half. We've got just about the whole game on the show today. Chris, Nate, and Macon start the show off with a little bit of football, talk Derek Carr's retirement, Trey Hendrickson and the Bengals, what are they doing there? and the NCA potentially allowing student athletes to bet on professional sports could get wild up in college athletics. And then Bo welcomes on Jason Light, the general manager of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

They talked Tampa Bay's 2025 draft class. Jason's first draft pick ever as a GM. That was Mike Evans and how great it was to watch Mike get the record for most consecutive thousand-yard seasons last year. And Bo asking a merry fuck kill question or two. And then we end with a little bit of Pope talk. We have a good time. Thanks for tuning in and we will catch you later this week. In what universe does a guy have 17 and a half sacks in the year of our Lord,

2004 and then in 2025 he can't get a deal? The general Trey Hendricks and disrespect is rooted in a couple things. I think part of it is for him when he started out in New Orleans, he was kind of a reserve guy. He was a rotational guy. He wasn't a high pick out of what, Florida. Atlantic and he runs like some of y'all would run if you were out there playing pro football and he looks in his uniform like some of y'all would look yeah if you were out there playing pro football and

you had like elite handwork and and a great get-off and like just a murderous chop and you know like a real feel for pass rushing everything else about him screams regular guy my thing is why are we surprised by this why are we surprised by this this organization last year was the running joke that they're cooked because they did this shit last year with Jamar Chase who's arguably a way better player. Look what you're doing already. He's arguably you're right. He's a way better player than Trey Henderson.

I don't like doing that comparative. Well, I'm just saying for points and for winning. Your point stands. For winning wise. It's just that if they did that to him, what makes you think they're not going to do that to anybody. Nobody's shocked. Nobody's shocked.

I, for one, I'm not shocked. Especially now with, hey, their first round pick, defensive end, they're like, hey, we just got a draft defense. We got to go get some pass

for us in the draft. And they, they signed the guy, and then he's holding out. Like, in the first week. I love it. And you know what,

you know what's funny? Usually, if I saw that from a rookie, I'd be like, what the fuck? All the contracts are slotted. What's to argue over? But it's the bangles.

Like, you just, And then on top of it, now you're like, okay, well, your shiny rookie won't sign his contract. Why should I sign my contract? The leverage just keeps mounting for a guy like Trey Hendrickson. Do you think it has anything to do? Obviously, they've got a lot of money tied up on the offensive side of the ball. Do you think they spent too much on that side?

I'm not a cap expert. You know, like some people will tell you the cap's not real. Right. I don't know if that's true or not. But I do believe they could get something done with Trey. I'm not I'm not sure what it would look like But it seems like the the two sides are so far apart And if I had to guess last year they said hey well

We don't want to do it right now. We'll come back to the table How and when they came back to the table was bullshit Right is his is is his deal done or is he has like one more year He's got one more year. He's got one more year yeah So like right now like someone can someone a team can try to like trade for him Oh I think that might be that might end up being what happened Yeah But like you don't even have a good look at

your Shamar Stewart is the kid's name from South Carolina. Is it South Carolina? A&M. A&M, sorry. Got my off reds mixed up. Did Clownie get picked up yet? Clownie did not, I don't believe, get picked up yet. But the point is this, like, you're in between a rock and a hard place because you don't

have any pass rush. And this young guy now is sitting in a standoff with your ownership. We're going to talk about it later, but your boy Graham, not doing you guys any favors right now. The White D tackle. See, are you falling into the Dov Klaman report stuff? I'm not saying the guy's going to be good. I haven't watched an iota of tape on the guy. All I'm going to say is throwing up at rookie minicamp in front of fans.

He could have food poisoning. That's very true. That's very true. And I mean, I mean, hey, if you want to, hey, if you want to throw the life jacket out there, I accept it. But you're acting like it's some heroic toss of the life, the life, It would be the lifesaver, not the life jacket. You don't throw a life jacket to somebody who's overboard. I'm teasing.

I'm teasing a little bit, but at the same token, if he wasn't sick, I don't think that's a good look for a top 10 pick. Well, if he's not good. If he was throwing up because he's not in shape or he wasn't training hard enough or whatever it is because we all know how it is, bro. Like, you have to either be like hungover or like really. out of shape to throw up during a or the third thing. What's that?

Food poisoning. No, no, yeah. No, absolutely. I puked in 06. I remember 06 I had food poisoning. We ate at the were you the only one who got it? Yes. Because I was out eating at the Taiwan Garden or whatever it was, not the docs. Okay. And then I was the sickest I've ever

been. I remember you were there, dude. I like projectile vomited on the field. All I'm saying is like listen, if he looks like shit in the drills, that's one thing. I mean, somebody under one of doves it's not even dov anymore it's like a different guy so i don't i demand that the replacement for dov climate puts his real name and picture up next to this trash listen there's no pads it's o tas these are just drills i want to see him get out there on the field

um with 10 other guys on defense and 11 guys on offense the point i guess i want to make is it's it's just under that video that people are ripping and they don't even know what they're looking at yet somebody said he has the aura of a rock and that is absolutely true

like this guy has no aura he has no swag there's a picture there's a video of him walking into the facility and you're like this guy's undrafted you know what makes me excited about that what? Look at this black sneakers white, white socks.

What's up with this song? How much do you want to bet he's either going to do, he's either going to do an M&M song, a Shibuzi song, or what song do you think? Are you saying? For the rookie, for the rookie. Just looking at him?

No, those are not black air forces, but. I wouldn't even know I'm old, according to Jackson Dart. We'll get to that in a little bit. So I wouldn't even know what kids are singing at this point, but like he looks like his whole outfit came from Foot Locker and he shopped on a budget. There was, to his credit, he was being asked by the equipment manager,

what cleats do you want? He did say he wanted like thicker, uh, tight end cleats. Like he didn't want the D-Lyme in. The fast D-Ly Lime. Well, he's an interior player. Listen, I'll just say this. I just get, we're so caught up in it this time of year.

We're all, the only window into these facilities is like videos from, you know, your local reporters who are at the, the facility or, some type of team social BS where it's just the guy hitting a bag. I've seen guys in OTAs that look like they were going to be uh,

Vaughn Miller and they scared the shit out of me. Like it'd be a guy that like we drafted or some undrafted guy and I'd be like, I'm gonna like, this is embarrassing. This guy looks way better than me. I can't think of their names. I play with so many of them. And I'd look back and I was terrified of these guys because they looked really good doing the drills.

and the ball snapped when you get into phase two or phase three or training camp and these guys are like mad dogs and meat houses they're drill guys so I'm just saying we got to give players Shador Sanders included Dylan Gabriel included we got to give these guys time although I did think it was funny can I can I play devil's advocate a little bit yeah sure me as an undrafted guy yeah and as a guy who like was that guy who did really well in drills. Are you sure you did well in drills? Shorts and T-shirts.

I feel like I did. I feel like I did. And I just feel like that's your, this is your, like, this is your first impression to like everyone like in an organization, whatever it is. Did what he just showed look that bad?

No. You're stuck on the puke thing. Maybe. Probably. A little bit. What don't you? you like about his body mechanics here? Melanin.

It's melanin, dude. No. It's definitely melaton. Hell no. It's a lack of melanin. No. I like white d tackles. I mean,

I'd like to see him gain more ground with that step if that's a, if that's a drill where we're slanting and taking a gap. 94 looks good. 94 looks okay. Could be worse. You know who looks better in 98 next to him. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, and. Here's the thing. You just, these are just, they're in underwear. That's all I'm saying. And people are going to spin this, but the minute this guy can't play, everybody's going to be like, you said he could play.

No, I just said that him puking on a practice field in May means nothing. It really means nothing. And these Dov Kleinmans of the world, these ML football accounts of the world, they are doing football fans a disservice because their entire existence is predicated on. And I know they're not going to share my podcast quotes anymore.

eventually when they hear me shitting on them but like they are grifting they're legitimately grifting these guys running these accounts are grifters wait wait they take footage of people in under no it's in trolling they're grifting what's what's what's grifting is not trolling grifting is like profiting off of something serious when you're being unserious or profiting off a wave they're profiting off a wave of misinformation and disinformation can I can I say the best one I see what What is it? This dude was like, Shador Sanders, what an 85-yard pass.

Touchdown in practice. And if this was a real game, he would currently have the longest in-air pass. And it's clearly a little underthroat. No, it was a throw from like the 50-yard line. Yes. A four-yard line. So like, but like. A lot of this started with Tua.

When people were talking about his deep ball, myself included, Miami started doing these tight shots of the football in like OTAs where you couldn't orient yourself with the yard marker to see how far the throw was and then the last second the wide receiver would come into frame catching the ball usually like behind him and now it's graduated

into this thing where like it's become rage bait like these people are just rage baiting us. I'm just telling you what's happening. These guys are rage baiting us. They'll show a five yard in cut like just like a slant or something and the ball's kind of on target.

and they'll be like, yeah, this guy's got skills. And they know that the mentions are, but why is it, is it rage because, like, I'm going to tell you. Because you know that, like, the people who maybe, like, really don't know football? I'm going to explain. Okay, okay, okay.

It's rage bait because look at the comments. A lot of the population is on to it. They're like, dude. I think the comments is the best part. I know, but that's what they're doing. They're farming engagement. It's just engagement farming. You know, like, and I'm not saying any of these quarterbacks

that they, and this is the problem. today is like if I go on a rant about how bullshit this tactic is, they're going to say, hey, quarterback X, you know, he's going to end up being a good player. You said he wasn't. No, what I'm saying is an in-cut in underwear in slow motion is not proof of anything. And they know that when they post that. And it's the same thing when they post a guy doing bag work. How many fucking guys look great in underwear at the combine doing bag work that we need? never heard from again. I just want to see them play football in due time. Now, I agree with the people on the internet that this, this Brown's rookie has the aura of Iraq. But is there anyone

memorable that like that does terrible like in the bag work and stuff like at the combine and into this? I got, I got one for you. That big guy with alopecia that four years ago was tripping all over himself and couldn't club rip a bag. He looked really awesome. He looked really awkward doing it. Everybody know, we'll put this in the YouTube or whatever. I can't remember the guy, but he just got drafted. He was a viral he was at some like high school camp. He's this big tall guy with alopecia.

And people made fun of him. He was a meme for three, four years. All these normies making fun of this guy because he looked awkward hitting a bag, which does not feel like football, by the way. And he became this like this internet sensation in a bad way

and I looked up on draft night it's this guy. Landon Jackson. Landon Jackson. I haven't been this happy for a guy that I didn't know much about in a while. If you've seen this video he looks like he doesn't know what he's doing. He looks awkward. I've looked awkward hitting bags, dude.

Like bag work is awkward. The way the bag work is coach can be awkward. It doesn't necessarily translate. Like, this drill sucks. that just the running up and down the field slap in the bag like when in football

as an edge player are you just slapping somebody in the shoulder and running straight up the field you know there's there's a there's a there's a bend and a turn in there too with pass rushing so everybody's making fun of this guy as you know like this guy's the worst football player ever they forget about him they never knew who he was really

four years later he gets drafted by the bills it's a great success story and it's a great success story and it's an example of the internet not knowing what the fuck they're talking about it just doesn't matter that much bag work now look at John Randall hitting the bag look at John Randall

hitting the bag Violent club Ha Look at that jab Unknown practice squad player That's crazy No violence That's what they're saying

No movement But again with the bags Not to go into his coaching session here But run that back The problem with that guy is the one good thing about the bags is you tie your feet and your hands in. Like it doesn't directly correlate with football necessarily, but what it does is it helps you coordinate your moves with your feet. And that can be a struggle for guys. I'm just on a tangent about bag work.

We're supposed to talk about Derek Carr retiring. We're supposed to talk about Derek Carr retiring. Hey, and before we get Derek Carr, Cabboy, you have a poll for the people at home. We want to ask the people and leave your answer in the comments at the show. But the NCAA, they could allow their athletes to bet on pro sports. The thing that they're voting on right now to go, if they approve it, it'll go in front of the council. If the council approves, it will be instituted as soon as June. That'll allow college athletes to bet on pro sports.

So we want to know, should college athletes be able to bet on pro sports? Is this good or bad for college athletes? Nate, don't lead the witness yet. Give them a second to think about it. Comment in the comments whether or not you think it's a good idea. Nate, I see you shaking your head no. What can possibly go wrong with this, guys? All right.

Let me play devil's advocate here. This is according to Pat 40. I mean, it's Pat 40? Mm-hmm. Why would he spell it like 40, like 40-yard dash, right? That's his column, 40-yard dash. Is it? Yeah.

Okay, so Pat 40, who's very good at his job. Oh, you don't think so? I hate Pat 40. Oh, you do? Why? He's got an axe to grind against UVA. Okay. He does.

He's swimming. Yeah. Dominated his daughter. Oh, really? Yeah. What did we have like? Inford swimming. Oh, nice.

I like that. I like that. He called Virginia basketball a tower. fraud right before they won the national championship. Massive idiot, Pat 40 says momentum's building towards the NCAA lifting

the ban on gambling on pro sports. So Nate, your point is well taken. What could go wrong? Let me tell you what could go right. What could go right is you give these guys and girls, because girls like to gamble too, I'm sure, and we'll leave them out, an opportunity to waste their

money on something else, right? And to not feel like, hey, if I have an itch to scratch i got to scratch it at the collegiate level you know and and more more specifically like you know if a guy's thinking about making 10 grand maybe he'll consider making it the right way and picking winners listen to green light right college athletes you could listen to green light right now and we'll give you winners one of the only shows that i know of that was everybody was over 500 i forget what my fucking can we go back there for a second what was my that was it was you were like 700 700 So if you're a college athlete and this and this comes down, you need to listen to Greenlight.

But the point is, like, look at all the scandals that have happened the past 10 years. And gambling, make no ifs, ands, or butts about it is like the future of revenue for pro sports, for college sports, the whole thing. The only way to fuck that money up is to foster distrust in the product, right? And the way you do that is you get caught in a bunch of scandals. A bunch of young guys and maybe women throwing it. games being in gambling rings you talk about the iowa state scandal you have the bama baseball thing where the bama coach gets fired the whole thing uh khaun butei he's gambling but not on his team so the point i want to make is like they can't afford to have any any more of this happen and i do believe as a gambler

it is about an hitch now there will always be those people that want to make a quick buck and they'll do whatever it takes to do it and they might say hey i got a better chance of point shaving and collecting than, you know, making money on a big Sunday parlay. And those people you'll always have to contend with. But I do think this is a way to, what would the word be, mitigate the risk of having a massive gambling problem in college sports. Because you think about a population, we know college sports has gone the way of these guys are like professionals.

Shador Sanders is an outlier. Guys like that are outliers. Yes, dudes are making a lot of money at big schools and the stars are making a ton of money, but there's still a ton of NCAA athletes who are not making a ton of money. And when you talk about who are the most vulnerable populations when it comes to like, you know,

taking a bite out of the apple, so to speak, it's the fucking, it's the guys who aren't making any money. And like, so you have a vulnerable population. You also have something that you want to kind of, to kind of keep the coffers full for the foreseeable future if you're an NCAA president or something,

like that who by the way last year it's such a problem that they were like let's get rid of prop bets at the nca level in march of last year uh charlie baker was like let's ban prop bets and i get that what might be smarter would be like hey guys if you want to gamble gamble away you know the mystics tip at 720 like you know you can do there's tennis there's international tennis there's pro football there's the whole thing so what they're not thinking about probably is death that's my biggest concern about I think this is a good idea because they're adults they're making a lot of money why wouldn't they be able to bet on something else it deters you possibly from betting on your own sport now the problem is you're going to have a bunch of guys who are going to lose their ass right and when they lose their ass what are they going to do then so I almost think it's a thing where like if you are an NCAA athlete and you bet you need to notify your athletic department of what app you are using and they need to take a look at that balance Because if I got a guy who's down 50 grand in a given week, he might not take the field. You see what I'm saying?

There's a lot I threw at you there. Pros and cons, but I think the pros outweigh the cons. You're going to have a problem no matter what. You can mitigate the risk if you give them something to do. No, but that's my thing. That's another thing, too, is just that this stuff is like public, somewhat public knowledge. So, like, we're going to be finding out that, hey, guys are betting this much, that much, because we find out now, like, these apps, like, they track everything.

They track everything. But my issue is what happens when, like, negligence? These are young kids. What happens when you look at the app and you're like, oh, this app is giving us better odds and this five game parlay and you don't realize one of those games is a college game. Now your season's over. Well, you have to be an adult. That's part of being an adult.

When you make a lot of money, you're an adult. You have to be an adult. I hear you, bro, but like, we know how some of our teams. teammates are in college. They're not adults yet. And there's a lot of guys right now who are making a lot of money that are not adults yet. So it's like when you think about that. So bet that board.

Don't bet the promo. Bro, I hear you. I hear you. But also when it opens up, you got to think about all the people who've never bet before that now that it's legal that you're going to get on that app. Oh, so you're a big roundabouts fan.

You could just spring fucking roundabouts. Like Department of Transportation can just put a bunch of circles. with a million lines in them in the middle of the road like on a like all the sudden and people are supposed to like like way better than the trap so you're pro roundabout but anti like sudden implementation of gambling privileges i just think that we're i hear what you're saying but i think that we're trying to give a lot of credit that these kids are mature enough for this and i don't I don't think the age gap of when you get to college and kids are getting to, well, it's 18 to gamble some places or 21, 21?

18. I'm 40. 18 now. Doesn't concern. In the States, it's 18, like these apps? 18. Yeah. Yeah.

So 18, like, I just feel like everyone's not ready. If you're eligible for the World War III draft, you should be able to fucking trick off some money on Ben. You're saying you didn't know the difference between the Boston Celtics and the Boston University Terriers at age 18. And then and when we hear those stories, it's going to be. I haven't heard.

I'm saying if this does get implemented, like you guys honestly don't think we're going to hear those type of stories. We probably will hear one or two, but you know what stories we're going to hear a lot more over the next 10, 15 years? And eventually it could cripple college sports is players being involved in massive scandals, betting against their own team or for their own team. Insider info. You talk about like college.

You talk about, okay, in pro football right now, when it's game week, there are 53 guys with intimate knowledge who play on the game and play in the field. And that's at most. So what I'm saying is this, it is hard to get information, okay, in the NFL. Players protect information in the NFL. I don't go looking for it because I don't put people in bad situations and I wouldn't want to put them in peril. But I know this, like when I've had people ask me about injuries and they could

be close friends. I'm always thinking about like who are they going to tell. Yeah. And where's this information going? Professionals understand that. Okay. There's less guys and and the staff. Like, same thing. There's less people. Well, they just need, but hold on. They need education classes. But hold on. They need someone to sit down like what you're saying right now. They need that. I think they're going to need that and to have that awareness to think about, hey, if you hear someone maybe poking at asking you questions, you should be aware of this. Yeah, they have symposiums for everything now but the point i'm making is in college sports there's a lot of players with a lot less to lose yeah right that like this isn't your this might not be your vocation if you're a walk-on

and they're getting rid of some of the walk-ons and everything but like this might not be your future if you're the the second tight end in the SEC like that so you're going to be a lot more if you want to make some money on the side or if you want to you want to place a bet like you're a lot more liable to do that when the repercussions are not as professional and they're not as permanent and quite frankly it's easier to find information around a college game in my opinion so like you have to protect that process if you want to make as much money in the gambling sphere i mean you talk about march madness if you couldn't gamble on march madness like what kind of chunk does that take out of the revenue around college sports period and i'm not just talking about like basketball i'm talking about it's a

sizable little chunk just in those couple weeks. And so you've got to protect that golden goose. The way you got to do that is to let these people be adults and get their fix somewhere else. You'll always have to worry about the people who are in debt or just bad guys for sure. But what it does is takes away the temptation to place a bet on college football or college basketball, you know, or what have you. I think I'm not 100% sold on it, but I am much more in the corner of like, hey, let's move some of the risks somewhere else

and deal with the consequences of, hey, maybe these guys are going to lose their asses. We'll figure that part. No, no, I'm thinking about, all right, me and you, we're college roommates, right? You're a senior. Yeah. We're best friends.

We've been betting, we've been illegally betting, have a bookie on an app. We've been winning money throughout college. No one knows, whatever like that. You go to the league, right? I have a year left in college. Now, I can bet. Now I'm asking you, hey, who's not playing this week?

Who are you asking me in the league? Yeah. But I'm not going to tell you that. But like if we're friends, how do you know? You're asking me to incriminate myself? Like, yeah, I would tell you. I'm saying, I'm saying, like, think about guys that maybe not thinking about that or whatever. And now this college kid, he's placing $5,000 bet.

Can I tell you something? Yep. That's a lot harder to trace. What we're talking about is like public perception, the perception that the institution is in and that it's when you bet on a pro football game, there isn't some fuckery, you know, a foul or however you would put it. And right now, like, you have a population in the NFL that thinks it's rigged. They think it's rigged.

I know after the NFC championship game, I complained about calls and joked about the game. But I do not think the game. I'm not a person that thinks it's scripted. I'm not a person that thinks that the referees decide going to the game, like, who they want to win the game. Sure, are there teams that get calls like Jordan used to get fucking calls? Sure, that's like confirmation bias or star treatment or whatever it is. But I just don't believe that the NFL is rigged and there's a population that believes that. So that's how susceptible the population that is throwing money at this thing is to believing that I should no longer throw money at this thing because it's fixed.

And so you've got to protect that by minimizing the scandals. Like that to me is number one. another thing is take all of college football how much new money is there in a given year now like hey the NCAA they don't care if they cared about these kids getting paid they would have been getting paid a lot longer time ago and uh we'd have done something about it they don't mind if these kids are part in way with their their money because they're bad gamblers and i'll tell you who else doesn't mind fucking casinos and sports books i was just about that's so You think in college, so now that they did that, are the casinos and these apps allowed to give out NIL deals?

If they're going to allow them, if they're not going to care about them betting. I think that might be a bridge too far. You know, because in the NFL, like, I can bet on college sports. Yeah, we're not allowed to. I can bet on the NBA. But if you're an active player, you can't have any. Yeah, you can't be on any, like, casino, like, event promotion, anything like that. And for a long time, you couldn't have an alcohol deal.

I don't know if that's still the case. Oh, word. The Pay Manor didn't he have a beer one? That was after? Maybe after. There's like my dad, my dad. My daddy. When he retired, he had a Coors Light deal, like, off the rip, and he was like, he, like,

shot a rattlesnake with, like, a can of beer. But he could have never done that when he played. This is an aside, obviously, and I don't think either y'all are going to disagree. But don't you think, sorry to sound like an old head, but. Kids these days are on a crash course for mental health crises. Oh, for sure. Being thrown hundreds of thousands of dollars with all of this pressure, with all of this social media pressure,

with not yet developed prefrontal cortexes. Oh, for sure. Where impulse control. Marijuana that's more available to people who are whose brains are still developing. Listen, I'll smoke a mountain of pot, but I'm 40 years old. But to your point, it's funny to me that the ones in charge,

of regulating all these things is the NC2A. No question. Why are you even involved? No. Folks. You're, they're, they're, they endeavored to integrate, um, um, athletics with, uh, educational, uh, component that clearly was never actually at the four. Um, it was a money making operation, not unlike this, uh, it's always been,

casino complex. It's always been. And this is a new freedom. This is a, hey, here's some independence shrouded and like, let's protect ourselves, in my opinion. Right. And for the gambling interest people, like my boss at BetMGM and, you know, any other book or app, like they don't mind that the kid for Iowa that's all of a sudden coming into $3 million is going to be completely irresponsible and bet the bears every weekend. It's way better. No problem.

Can I get you addicted for 20 years or 40? I'll take 40. Yeah, dude. Yeah. So anyways. And also there's the confidence that like, hey, I'm a football player. So I'm going to know how how gambling works. But what happens?

How about this? The latter. What? What happens when there's a kid up $7 million from betting? And everyone knows. And he's on your team. And like, you get the extra. I bet he'll probably give it back at some point in my experience.

We're going to see ESPN. outside the lines videos on Saturday morning before the game talking about how good or better it is. Yeah. So, hey, what's your process? How are we going through this? What's my process? Well, I don't really have one because I practice all week and I can't consume any NFL

media. And on Saturdays, I'm playing on Saturday night, I'm drunk. I wake up Sunday morning and fire at the board. Like, that's my process. That's the best possible process. That's going to be the next thing. That's going to be the next thing because we're going to have to pay attention to that because you might want to hire some of these kids because some of these kids,

what happens some of these kids they might be sharps they're going to have their they're going to have their Twitch channels we'll see I don't think yeah no there's a chance now now of course you got to remember this is per pat 40 when's the last time that came through I'll make that's right and that another complicating part about the gambling addiction as as my friend dax would tell you it's the only addiction where you're one more hit away from being back to even It's not like one more snort of cocaine. I'll make it all better. Yeah, but I'll stop being as high as I am. Yeah, but if I'm down 25 grand, all in on the... Yeah, it's the one addiction where you're kind of keeping score.

Yeah. And it's the last addiction that I think people are getting to and calling out is like, listen, you've got to be responsible. It's one of those things. I mean, like, you want a couple beers every week? That's great. You want to make a couple plays every week? You make a couple plays. When you start making 30 plays in a day,

you know and and i think most books will tell you that they tell you overtly like hey one 800 gamblers we called that line at one point yeah should have listened to that guy he was ready we called the hotline he picked up on like the first ring yeah making was like hey i got a real problem what do you think i should do and the guy was like stop right now like he was so no no nonsense about it i was like ah this probably isn't the helpline for me i've seen a fly I see the viral one. This black dude was going back with the guy. And the guy was like, hey, man, he was like, you know what your problem is?

He's got to stop with the parleyes. The parleyes, bro. He's like, just stop. He's like, if you're going to bet, he was like, just bet straight up. And the guy's like, he said, I don't know, man. Just those parlays, they'd be looking good. He goes, that's your problem. Well, it's funny.

My guy was like a cold turkey guy. So anyways, probably way too long on gambling there. but it is a fun conversation, like, just, I'm sure it's pretty divided. I've intentionally not looked at the takes surrounding this. You make good points. Thank you. Good points made. I mean, hey, listen, like, I am a gambler.

I played college football. I played pro football. When I was in pro football, I gambled on college football. You know, we'd walk around every day and I'd be like, hey, $20 on this team, $20 on that team. But things have changed a lot. Like, you know, there's a lot better avenues for you than handshake deals with Brandon Graham to like I used to come up to BG and wait until like Michigan was like a big dog because BG only bet money line like handshake verbal money line and I would only bet him the games where

they were like like dogs because he didn't really understand spreads so it's kind of predatory on my part but they're going to ask you to hand back that man of the year we're talking about a hundred bucks picked advantage of Michigan men yeah exactly Like Mason Graham. No, I'm pro Mason Graham. I'm the one here defending Mason Graham against the mob. How many more books open if this gets passed? I don't think it's going to be that kind of significant.

I mean, how many NCAA athletes are there, you know? Thousands. You know what the opposite of a checkdown is? A deep ball. A throw up. Yeah, it's true. Mason Graham. A throw up.

Isn't that his name? Yeah, Mason Graham. M.G. Yeah. Golly, dude. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I want to talk about D.C. Derek Carr. listen, he's been a couple days since he retired, and there were some rumblings about this thing, and obviously it's injury-related and the whole thing. But I know nobody's going to feel bad for a guy that made $200-plus million in his career.

But I do think he had bad luck. I think to me, you know, you can say a lot of things about Derek Carver, but I think when you look back at his career, I'm certainly not saying he was elite, but what I am saying is, like, he had to be. some bad breaks. He followed his brother, which, you know, he's regarded as one of the biggest misses in draft history. All due respect. I mean, it's like, that's kind of on the team, not him. He's doing the best he can. Like, that's why I call him a miss, not a bus, right? The miss

is the miss shot by the GM. But I think a lot of people have conflated those two, even subconsciously, like coming in, he kind of had a reputation because his last name was Carr, right? And And second rounder, Raiders leader in yards, touchdowns, and completions, which although, you know, everything's skewed being in this era. Like, that's still pretty impressive, right? And he did all this with six head coaches in Vegas and Oakland alone, right? Nine years. Nine years. Four or five offensive coordinators, tons of, I mean, like, look at the list of his head coaches, Cowboy, if you could pull them up.

it doesn't scream like investment in the quarterback's development. I mean, Gruden is a guru, right? Everybody feels that way about John Gruden. Spirano was technically an offensive line coach. I mean, but there's not a great track record of O-line coaches being head coaches in the NFL. Like, I know you could probably find me one or two that has worked out, but like for my dollar, that's not like a really great way to maximize a quarterback's potential. he didn't really win.

And I think that's a lot of it. But how much of that is an organization? How much is that is him? He comes into the AFC West with Manning and Denver, right? Like that great defense when he came in like 2014. 14, yes. So he kind of, he came into the AFC West about the same time that that was going on. And then we all know what happened next, which is like, hey, kiss the division goodbye for a generation, right?

And that's Patrick Well. And so like it's a terrible time to play quarterback in the AFC West. Now when he did win, it was like there was always a caveat. Like 2016, if you remember Derek Carr in 2016, that was an incredible year. I mean, he was playing as good a quarterback as any guy not named one of the absolute elites in the NFL, like good enough that they were talking about him like an MVP candidate. And if you remember, week 16, Trent Cole broke his leg. and he just wasn't the same after that in the pocket.

Like I think the mobility, the confidence was a little bit different after that. He also had more injuries down the line. And so, like, you talk about that year where everything's going well for him. He gets hurt late in the season. It bleeds into the next year. Like, that can really be tough in the prime of your career. Not a lot of quarterbacks get rolled up like that and miss significant time. We have a handful of them like Dak Prescott.

Tom Brady had an. injury like that that changed rules around the league honestly you know and and so he didn't get to enjoy that that postseason where I think they probably beat the Texans I don't want to short the Texans but that was one of the worst playoff games ever to watch um you know the playoff game against the bangles if you remember that game the rich passaccia game right like there was a questionable call in that game in the red zone that if you as raiders fans like was the difference in the game. I'm not taking anything away from the Bengals. That's the way the cookie crumbles. But there's a lot and it sounds like I'm making excuses for the guy. The point I'm trying to make is

I mean, he was a fucking pretty good player here. And he played 11 years in the NFL and voted to four Pro Bowls. What that's worth. Teammates seem to like him. Famously, Devante Adams followed him to literally hell to reunite with him. You know, the guys I've talked to like him. Now, listen, Mike Thomas, Chris Olavé might not like him for throwing hospital balls late in his career. Right? And Saints fans might not like him because they paid him a boatload of money at the tail end of his career where he was physically probably shot. What's his man's name? That was going crazy on the Internet this year.

Mike Thomas. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So more than anything, that seems like a New Orleans problem to me. Like, again, it's kind of like being mad at David Carr. You know, like David Carr was doing the best he could. 32-year-old Derek Carr, probably not the guy

you want quarterbacking your team or getting paid that much money. The Saints decided to do it. So when he retires, and listen, the reason I'm making this case

is because when a guy like that retires, he's going to be polarizing, right, he's a quarterback, you know, the wins and losses are attached to him, the whole thing.

And you get all these other fan bases involved in the eulogy. And quite frankly, I think, a lot of the stuff I've seen this week is pretty disrespectful. Like, you know, I'm not going to, I don't feel sorry again for a guy that's made $200 million and lived out his dream and had a successful career. I mean, talk about Jersey retired or number retired at Fresno State. He's a legend

there. Raiders, leading passer and so many metrics. He had a successful career. And he retired this weekend. I felt like everybody was just shitting on him. It was like, and maybe that's just a product of today's media and a product of today's online community. where everybody just wants to shit on everybody, right, to make themselves feel better. But ask Raiders fans what they think of them. I think a lot of Raiders fans really respect Derek Carr. And I think he had a really good career, man.

I mean, it's hard to be a quarterback in the NFL. So, you know, I just wanted to say that. Like, listen, was he ever a top five quarterback, maybe for a brief stretch performatively, like from a standpoint of production or Pro Bowls? But I don't know if I'd ever put him in elite category. but not many guys are. And so I think he should be proud of his career.

And if you don't like him in New Orleans, you should probably blame your front office. You know, if I'm Derek Carr, am I not going to, am I not going to take the bag in my 30s to go play quarterback for some other team? I mean, like, New Orleans seems to be the problem.

New Orleans is the problem here. New Orleans has been kicking the can down the road on hitting the reset button. At different junctures, I've said, like oh i like the fact as a player because when you're a player you want to be given a chance to win right like and you're not thinking like a fan like oh we can sit this year out or a media member and see the the forest through the trees and say hey like we need to hit the reset button this year's going to suck that's a lot harder to say to players so i've fallen to trap sometimes of you know activity

is progress right where i'm like i'm sitting there imagining myself as a saint and i'm I'm saying, oh, I'm glad they're giving Derek Carr a shot. Like, fuck it, take a shot at it. I don't have to live with the repercussions. And to me, looking back at the saints since Bree's left have really struggled to move on. And I thought, like, it was their mistake paying him all this money. And he was shot physically. And, you know, he wasn't the same really good quarterback or solid quarterback in New Orleans.

And it played out that way. And so, you know, people are celebrating in the streets. I get that from a fan-based standpoint. but ask Raiders fans what they think about him. I think most Raiders fans would say, I respect that guy. He showed a lot of class. He played his ass off.

And he just never reached the promised land, so to speak. But who did in Vegas or L.A. This century? Like nobody. And so, yeah, he wasn't the guy that pulled the sword from the stone, but I thought he had a nice career. And I think where he could be really relevant in Saints history is he's the catalyst for them hitting the reset button.

They needed to do this. Okay, however we got this, there and Nolan's got a really good timeline of this whole thing like whether he knew he was injured or didn't know he was injured or he was trying to set them up like listen I don't think if he was trying to set up the saints to pay him $30 million he would have just he would have just followed the timeline he followed like I would have if I was trying to if I was trying to pull off a heist that would have gone to OTAs and and the first day acted like my assist in my arm exploded and be like up this happened here right like I do think think, and maybe I'm being naive, that he probably knew something was wrong, but didn't know what to do, right? Like, he's staring down the end of his career and that sort of thing. And now he's got to give the money back. You're going to be able to spread out some of the dead cap over the next couple of years. But the bottom line is like, that's a big monkey off their back, right? And I think he's the guy if he's given back the 30 mil, which I think he is because he knows he's not going to be able to

wait, wait, wait, he has to actually give money back to them? No, it's money that he hadn't earned yet. Oh, okay. But it's money that like if he fought for it, I suppose he could put up a fight for it. But I also think if you're really retiring, you probably don't want your last chapter in the NFL to be like fighting a losing battle for $30 million because you know you're not going to get that money. It was kind of a handshake because he kept his signing bonus that he got on signing and then he forego, or as you're saying, didn't fight for what's remaining on his contract. Yeah. Yeah, it's the language within the like the retirement. language voids that 30 million that that had become guaranteed when he restructured or when the team

restructured his contract on March 8th without the knowledge of the shoulder they didn't know and and and they didn't know in reports that starting to swirl around and everything and I think they probably had a feeling that something was was wrong going in the draft I think some of the free agency moves that me and Nolan were talking about like Chase young Justin Reed like there's some signings that tell you they're trying to be competitive and even when you're tanking like which i don't think is a thing that anybody overtly says hey guys we're tanking you you don't just leave the cupboard bear you have to you have to spend money you have to look like there's activity going on but i do think he saved them a year of trying to be competitive by just

saying hey i'm i'm and probably doesn't have a choice my shoulder's fucked up i can't throw the ball anymore here's the money back he could be the guy uh that that forced a reset in a much needed one that could yield an arch manning return you think about that like the last time that's sleeping on tyler shock okay the last time that they drafted a quarterback in the first round i think was his granddaddy yep i mean like they have the longest i think it was archie yeah so 1971 archie manning it's been 50 plus years it's been 50 plus years since they drafted a quarterback in the first round which is insane when i heard that trivia question recently i was thinking oh it must be a team a lot of success. Or it must be a team like the Packers or something like, no, it's been this

team that's not known for honestly having a ton of awesome quarterbacks. And they've somehow survived as an organization not drafting quarterbacks in the first round. This reset could yield them doing just that next year. And that would be something if it was the progeny, not directly of, oh, it is. Is that technically progeny of Archie Manning? Is your grandkid your progeny? I'll say yes. So it's an interesting deal, man. Like, like, like, and it did, listen, they could be, they could be strangely competitive this year.

We don't know with this shot kid and Kellan Moore says open competition. I don't, I don't necessarily, I don't necessarily buy that. I think he probably has a feeling on who he wants to give the nod to. I also don't believe that he really believes that the, the future is in the building. He said that. Like, that's, that's coach speak, like one-on-one. There's no way. but if this kid ends up being pretty good, great.

If he doesn't, and it's a disaster this year, you're going to break that trend and you're going to draft the quarterback in the first round next year and you've ripped the band-aid completely off. But like Derek Carr retiring, Ryan Ramchick retiring, the core is aging. Like, it just makes a lot of sense. They've been trying to cash in on this aging core

since Bree's left and it's just not working. Out with the old guard. And like, listen, they're not the only people that have a hard time recovering when a Hall of Fame or leave. Like, look around the league. It probably takes five, seven years for most of these franchises. Your giants, right? And I just did the thing with Eli.

I called him a Hall of Famer. But Hall of Fame caliber, Super Bowl winning quarterback, like generational kind of guy. The Steelers are still in it, right? Like, they've done a lot better at masking it, right? With some of their, you know, institutional fortitude, like being able to get to 500 and make a couple runs. But they haven't figured it out.

And honestly, you could look at it. around the league and Andrew Lux's another example you know the the Colts are still putting a band-aid on that thing so it doesn't matter who you are I mean like the Packers are an anomaly right like losing Aaron Rogers and having a Jordan love waiting in the wings the charges are an anomaly right where you know Philip Rivers who again like I'm not trying to do the thing but you know what I mean long time quarterback franchise quarterback retires and uh before you you know what they have Justin Herbert. Now I know he went to Indy and that sort of thing

at the end of his career, but the point I'm making is it's not easy to turn the page. And as evidenced by the saints who seem really competent and like they know what they're doing, they've struggled to turn the page. So I think it's about time they do that. And I hope that getting lost in New England. Did I mention New England?

New England. They just got a glimmer of hope, right? Like they had a glimmer of hope with Mac Jones. but like they haven't quite and they're a pretty good comparison i'm not saying that new orleans is on the level of new england but they tried to keep things real in-house right like dennis allen's sticking around we're like the same program the whole thing and the the patriots tried to do the same thing the key is finding a fucking quarterback and moving on and i think that's what new Orleans is on a quest to do and it might be a long year in like this past season to

your Arch Manning or the next quarterback point, how much better are they set up for another quarterback? How much more does that new quarterback want to go there? Like you think this offseason, the Calf's Face and everything, probably not a very They're going to be Archie Zanes.

Yeah. Listen, and next year, they're still going to be, it's not going to be like shopping spree. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In 26. But what they can do is say, okay, we're going to have a really good draft, and in a year we're going to be out of cap hell and and we can start building around hopefully who is the next franchise

what they need to do they need to go find those chickens cut their necks get that blood and start doing that mojo voodoo stuff the mojo voodoo stuff yeah i mean they're down there it's around they just need to go all in i agree with you it would be so dope if archie like he did with his son eli and redirecting him from san diego to new yorking him from san diego to new York redirected grandson Ard away from New Orleans. No chance. That'd be hilarious. Couldn't do it though.

You talk all about health and situation. I think two very similar careers, though you'll call one quarterback elite and one not. Stafford and Detroit, he goes to L.A. and wins a Super Bowl, is not too dissimilar from Derek Carr with the Raiders. And if Derek Carr had found himself somewhere like Pittsburgh and won a title, I think we'd be talking a lot differently about his career. And you're right. I would call one of them elite and one of them not. But there are some, and there's a lot of players like this in the NFL where you know, you can look back at their their career and say, hey, like, fuck, dude,

what might have been all the while he made a lot of money, right? Like, so nobody feels sorry for him. And I understand that's kind of a, like, to some people, money is everything and I don't blame them because they don't have any of it. And, and I get that. And you're looking at a guy who's got $200 million dollars and you're like, I would never, in my life feel sorry for the guy. But I can tell you like how your career goes and how it ends and it weighs on you. And it sticks with you and like, I just hope that he walks away and he's like, hey, I've had a very good career and I'm respected by the franchise that I played nine years for.

And whatever happened on the way out the door trying to get the bag, yeah, I might have stuck them up, but it wasn't on purpose. Like, it just, New Orleans, they made a bad decision. they're still paying for it. But that's not Derek Carr's business. And it's not Derek Carr's fault that his eyes look like he's wearing eye liner. Yeah.

That's just the way he looked. Did we ask him when he came on if he wears mascara? We didn't. I probably not that specific question. What did I say? Specifically, did I hint at it? No, no, no. Didn't hint at it at it at all.

No, I think that the, I think you started off with a play between you two. Yeah. Oh yeah, I was off sides. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I sacked him a few times. I think I sacked him three times. But listen, I'll just say this. I have respect for him.

My rant earlier was just to say, I'm not trying to cape for the guy. There's going to be somebody inevitably who's going to be like, oh, you're the biggest Derek Carr fan. Really, that's not the case. I just know what that context matters. He's had all these coaches, all these coordinators. And he was trying to win in Oakland and Vegas. has that happened in a long time?

You know, you can call him the coach killer. You can say he's the reason they had so many coaches, but I would go out on limb and say, like, where are these guys succeeding elsewhere? Like, Gruden's the only one, right? And shout out to David Carr for setting that far where he did. Let me ask you this. You think his agent is pissed,

leaving 30 mil on the table? Because that, that's... Well, no, his agent knows he... I think his agent understands. I wonder if his agent knew that he was hurt. Listen, I don't want to get picked apart here. I'm not sure. I don't have a take on whether he knew it or not.

But here's what I would have done. Like, if you're really trying to bamboozle them, you come in and act like you got hurt at practice. Yep. Now, the MRI will probably show it's an older injury. Get one of these teenagers to film a sizzle reel. If you throw in a, it only goes six yards, but it looks like it goes 60.

that's what they're going to do in 26 when he comes back as a colt they're going to be doing because the colts man they're addicted to veteran help bro they really are and and ross tucker who i really respect was like hey i don't think he's done because i don't know anybody who's just going to turn down 30 million dollars i don't think it's so much of turning down 30 million dollars i think it's more like i know i'm not going to have that money so like let me just not fight over it and i want to leave the door open. If you're Ross Tucker, Ross thinks he's leaving the door open for coming back at some point. So wait, wait. So, like, is that money poof gone? So if he gets better and like the Saints take him back, they have to give him that 30 mil again? The Saints, this, if he got better

in the Saints, if he unretired, I don't think so. Okay, okay, okay. I don't think so. Nolan, I don't think so. No. So that money is. That money, that 30 million was voided from the, when they restructured it became guaranteed so if you were to come out of retirement it would be a different deal yeah void yeah back back into the alders bank so yeah back into back into the owner back into the benson family trust 30 mil yeah they can they can they can they can throw that at uh they can throw that at some help for archmanning in a couple years the uh last football topic uh in this open we've got Football. Schedule release 2025. Eagles Cowboys.

Thursday, September 4th, it's going to be the kickoff game. It's going to see... Billy, we're not going out to Dallas to play the fucking Cowboys. They just won a Super Bowl. They ain't going to Dallas. You've got to come play the Eagles. By the way, this might be a good time to just play the CD-LAM audio. Can you do that?

I know I told you to do it later, but can you do it now as we talk about this rivalry. I mean, this is. Who has a more passionate fan base, the Eagles or the Cowboys? Eagles? Eagles?

They're crazy. Our Cowboys, our fans are deep, but they're not. I don't want to say nothing crazy, but. You've already said something crazy. Who has a more passionate fan base, the Ravens or the Chiefs?

She knew the Ravens. Look at Derek. Look at Derek Henry. Being smart. Got the dynasty right now. and lying through his teeth. Just lying through his teeth. That's just what the moment demanded.

The moment demanded that you lied through your teeth, C.D. Lamb. And you didn't do it. You know, like, what possessed him to answer that that way? The best policy. Honesty. I got some, I got some. The fucking passion for C.D. Lamb with that response. Well, no, I mean, so C.D. Lamb is going to be playing for the most passionate fans in the NFCEs here coming up.

They're going to be booing his ass. Although if you had to rank passion in the NFC East, commanders are up there because commanders fans, they risk their lives every fucking week to go view that team play in that stadium. You've got to have some serious passion to watch a game there. I'm not cut out for it. I'll go Eagles, commanders, giants. I don't know.

Because the giants, well, no, I mean, think about being a Giants fan right now. You gotta have some passion. All those fans that shut up for time. Yeah. But there aren't. Like it's an easy place to play. You think it because there's no fans? Yeah.

Why do you think that is that none of them show up there? I don't know. I don't know. Got a little fat and happy after a couple world championships 15 years ago. Yeah. And now it's waiting for it to come back around. They're like the Cowboys without.

without the depth as cd said without the depth and then also without the um the mediocre play like y'all just went full on bad right and got the the cushy stadium which also happened to dallas it's cushy but boys it's sterile right it is so gross i mean it's just like anyways don't need to say anything more there um but yeah no so the opener How many times do you think they're going to cut as the Eagles banner is raised? How many times are they going to cut to Jerry Jones in his suite? Well, I don't know that they're going to raise it live, but it's a, it's a layup. It's a lot like that question that CD Land was just asked. A fucking layup, dude. And he, he just, he just missed the layup. They won't miss that layup.

They'll have Jerry Jones on TV. Jera. Jera can be in the toilet while they're doing that. Right. Right. Well, no, here's, here's what I'm really. interested in this game is and this isn't just a this game thing it's probably a year long thing if not longer who is george pickens going to going to make his highlander beef in the nfcs you ever see the movie

highlander no it's uh it's about these people that have like eternal beefs with each other like they just keep they get they die they get reincarnated and they're beefing forever so when i say a highlander beef i mean like who's going to be his well shit he just had one on the cowboys it was uh guy that just went down Jacksonville. Yeah. Seen the clip. Jordan Lewis. Yeah, Jordan Lewis was his Highlander beef this year,

and probably will continue to be. Jacksonville, Dallas is going to be must-see TV next time they play because of that. I have a take. But I think it's going to be, I think it's going to be Cooper de Jean. Yeah, that was my answer. I think it's Cooper to Jean. I don't think guys like being tackled that hard by White.

And I definitely don't think, George Pickens is going to like it. I think that's going to be, I think those guys are going to be going at each other. It's going to be fun this year. But I think I actually like that landing spot for Pickens. I think him and C.D. Lamb, like if Dax come back and Dax is decent, I think either way you put it, if guys,

Pickens is really a number one. If he gets his head on straight, he's a number one. So they have a, they have a one. Exactly. They have a one A and one B. if it takes off a little bit of pressure from CD Lamb or if they think Pickens is better, I think it's going to bowl well for them honestly down there. So I'm excited to see what happens.

But he's the ticking time bomb. So it's going to be interesting to see how it works out. All you need to know is that Pittsburgh couldn't trade him until after the draft. Like, you know, you should be able to trade a player with that much. much talent if you're pretty sure you're going to do it ahead of the draft. Couldn't do it. So I don't know. I think his reputation precedes him at this point. And there's some sourcing via the athletic, I believe. That said like teams laughed at the prospect of adding him to their roster. Which is crazy to me because he's so fucking talented. But Jerry, that's the

one thing we can't say about Jerry. Jerry's been through this before. And like, I mean, the whole Des Bryant thing was so polarizing and they had to get him 24-hour security and all this other stuff. So if any owner and organization can maybe handle it a little bit is maybe them. Can I give Des Bryant some love here? Yeah. Fucking guy never took a playoff that I remember. Oh, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I hear that. Like, like. The taking place off thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and also the volatility. Yeah, sure, Des was a little volatile at times. Yeah, that's the same thing about like when people compare it. to AB. It's just like AB was crazy, but AB pretty hard. You cannot compare AB to Pickens. If you watch

AB's tape, you don't, he don't take plays on. A. B is known as a grinder. Yeah. Like, A.B. was a grinder. Yeah. And so, you know, like, say what you want about AB post football, but A.B. Or what kind of a guy he was off the field or whatever. But, like, Pickens to me is so talented. Yeah. It could definitely work out. But, uh, but you're getting contract year of Pickens. So that, that to me is like the biggest hedging of the bet for Dallas is like knowing that this guy wants to cash in yep he's going to be hopefully on his best behavior um anyways i wonder how much that um contract year plays into GM when they're trying to sign somebody you know if someone has had issues in the past hey it's your contract year then for sure i think it does i think it does play in

yeah you know and if you look at things on a shorter timeline you're like at worst we have a rental of a player that's motivated. And I think Jerry's looking at things like, hey, I don't have forever. Yep. So. Slim Pickens. Cowboys receiver

doesn't like what he sees on open market. Slim Pickens. You got a funny thing to tell you later. Okay. You're fired. No. All right. So evidently, Bo Allen had a conversation with Jason Light, general manager of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers today. That's Monday. You're yesterday as you are listening. And supposedly it was a good interview. This is a great conversation. Bo's former boss talked Tampa Bay, the 2025 draft picks, and gave a great point about Mike Evans, how he almost drafted Johnny Mansell over him. But he watched that.

Mansell tape and Mike Evans was the one who jumped off the film. He also played Fuck Mary Kill with Jason Light, which you can stick around for that. So yeah, we want to let the big man work down there in Tampa and that's what you're going to be hearing today and then stick around for a little C block. All right, welcome back Greenlight Pod with Bo Allen here, joined by Jason Light Bucks GM since 2014 with the longest tenured GMs in the NFL and a guy that I've personally enjoyed, you working for and working with Jason, thanks for coming on. Thanks for finally having me on.

Yeah, no, prestigious podcast here. No doubt. You know, it's exciting when you, we work, I kind of worked for you, and now we're collaborating on creating some media content. It's fun. You guys are a lot of fun, man. It's fun watching you guys. Yeah, well, I appreciate just saying that.

So let's just get right into it. The draft was, you know, right a couple weeks ago here, and I'm sure you guys are kind of finishing up rookie minicamp, and all was that last week, Rookie minicamp? Yeah, we just finished it up yesterday, right? Yeah, how to go. Yeah.

Good, good. You know, major surprises? No, it's everybody was either was what we thought or exceeded expectations, so that's good. It's all positive. At this point, though, I mean, at this point. It's still so early. Very early. The rookie minicamps and stuff like that, it's always like non-padded and stuff these days, right?

So it's not like true camp football, so to speak. No, and like the bigger guys like yourself, you're not going to, you know, you're not going to stand out. You know, it's, you watch the pretty little skill players, you know, move around athletically and you ooh and on. Yeah. And then all the big boys do individual. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But, you know, all the, all the reports coming back from the coaches and everything, everything, everybody was, everybody was impressive.

Yeah. Well, I'm happy to hear that. Actually, that's one of the questions. had for you is just going through this you know this class of rookies if you could give one word you know you have six draft picks in the 2025 draft ibuca Morrison parish Walker Roberts and Johnson obviously guys that you're very familiar with that you like that you're impressed by can you just give me one word like one word to describe each of these guys yeah so So, Emeka, I would just say, reliable.

Yeah. Morrison, I would say, Ballhawk. Okay. Parish, feisty. Feisty? That's good. That is like what I would want.

Yeah, okay. Sorry, keep going. Walker, freak. Freak. That's good, too, man. Elijah Roberts Steady And then

Tess Johnson Fun Fun Okay So like steady Just like As a defensive lineman When you're steady

You're just a bow Allent type player Like you know where you're going to be A little bit of a coach's pet Good locker room guy Sort of a little bit different with him He's more of a pressure player You're more of a run stopper

No offense Don't put me in a box No You're not wrong on that one. I'm excited to follow these draft picks, man. I'll keep those notes in mind and, you know, see if that kind of unfolds the way that you're expecting in the upcoming season. So I had my son here at my youngest son, my 11-year-old at practice yesterday. He brought his friend Jackson to practice and told me, I'm just stay out of the way. You can watch. And he said,

can we give an autograph? I said, yeah, absolutely. So get into practice. Guys are just coming out there. He runs right by a mecca, you know, get out of the way. once Tess Johnson's autograph, you know, that's like, that's their favorite player. Yeah. So it's funny how that, what kids are attracted to. It must be because Tess probably has more followers, I don't know. Yeah, well, I know he was a fan of Fat Thor. One of your sons was a fan of Fat Thor back in the day.

No doubt. Maybe he's a Desmond Watson guy too, you know? Well, yeah, it's probably, it's a lot of questions about him at home. We're on the dinner table, yeah. No, yeah. I mean, that's a big boy right there. You talk about Run Stuffer. I mean, he's going to stop the Tush push.

If him and Vita can't do it, I don't know who can. may or may not been in the back of our minds. Yeah, no kidding. So I was actually just at the draft a couple weeks ago. I made a pick in the second round, which was cool. But I'm always curious what draft day is like for GM, especially day one, because you, you know, you guys are kind of sitting around all day and the draft doesn't start until eight. Are you, like, how aware, or I guess how much mobility is there on your board and how aware of what other teams are, you know, what they're trying to do, are you? Are you always kind of guessing of what other teams are going to do,

or do you have a pretty good picture of where they're at? Well, we have a, it's guessing, but we know, I mean, I have a unbelievable staff. And so they spend a lot of time dissecting every team's roster, and we kind of know what every team wants, our needs, at least what we perceive their biggest needs are. And then we track the players that they brought in. We track the players that they worked out. We track a lot of the stuff that's out there, you know, interviews that GMs or head coaches had with about players, you know, just to kind of get a feel.

And we do a pretty good job. Nobody's 100% accurate, but do a pretty good job in knowing what's going to go. What could happen? And then we talked to each other a little bit. We heard Niners are doing this. We heard the Eagles are doing that. Well, you never know fucking how he's going to do. I mean that in a good way.

Yeah. And but it's a, and then, but draft days. actually like in the morning since it starts so late we I don't get here until noon I I'd walk the dog I take you know uh to leisurely start to the day and then care leisurely start to the day the phone's not buzzing it doesn't happen until later so it's uh I just try to relax as much as I can just to but then I can't help myself I get in here and you know we start looking at the board again we have our kind of our minds made up what we're going to do but you start second guessing then that's what you want to stop from doing so that's why I try to stay away as long as I can under after it.

Yeah, it's like the hay's already in the barn at that point. Yeah. And I guess that's the thing that's so interesting to me also is because like, you know, obviously the first round is the big night and a lot of those picks have been the most studied, but you can really get some great guys on day three. I was a seventh round pick and it feels to me like day three, there's just so much more movement. You don't really know what teams are going to do on day three as much. Um, Is it a lot more chaotic as the draft like continues? I don't want to say chaotic, but it's just more, you know, I've learned over the years that even starting in the third round, like you start,

okay, wow, we didn't, we weren't expecting that guy to go there. And, you know, it's just whatever is the beauty's in the eye of the beholder. So teams have players ranked differently. And, you know, so it's, it is kind of, you just learn to know, you can't expect the unexpected. So this is your first draft without John SpyTech, a guy. I'm a big fan of an easy guy to talk to, kind of a player's front office guy. Do you fuck with him at all in Game Day?

Do you give him a prank call or anything like that? I didn't this year. I just knew that he had a lot going on. You know, his first year, I remember going back to my first year. I didn't know any of the staff here. I felt like it was just me locked in a room watching tape. And I was trying to watch everybody. And I got the first one right, Mike Evans.

So that's, but. Yeah, you got that one guy, Jason. I didn't want to, I didn't, you know, I will, I will start it next year. You know, it's funny, I was doing, I can't remember where I was, I think I was doing Rich Eisen show, a podcast. And he asked me about spy tech or something. I said, you know, I'm trying to get rid of Michigan guys, you know, so we finally got rid of Brady, we got rid of SpyTech.

I had to sign Ben Brennison back because he's a good player. But we took a Mecca because I wanted to offset the Michigan thing. Right. And somebody, I started getting messages and direct DM saying, that's so rude of you to say about Brady after all he's done for it. I mean, it's like, come on, take a joke. You're clearly being facetious. You know what I mean? It's like, come on.

No, I think you need to get rid of Michigan guys. Maybe get some more Wisconsin guys on the roster. We do need some Wisconsin guys. Yeah. We do. All right. Well, you know, I'll put a good word in for you. But no, can you just talk about SpyTech a little bit and what, you know, what Raiders fans can expect from their new GM?

Well, he's very sharp. He's very confident. He was a reliable guy. He's a loyal guy. He and I met back in 2005. He was one of our interns in Philly when I worked for the Eagles. And we eventually ultimately promoted him to a scout. And then he and I, my wife and his wife, we got along back then and stayed in touch.

Crazy story when I moved here. got this job. I was going to try to hire him, but it didn't work out at the time. But my direct neighbor, he's lived right next to me. He and I are basically taking the trash out one day. And he said, hey, did you know that Spytok and I were roommates in college? He's one of my best friends. It was crazy. Yeah, small world, man. So, you know, a couple years later, it finally worked out where I was able to bring him in. And he's just, he's a great evaluator. He's a great leader. Yeah, he's going to be missed. He did a good job training these guys that I had. have here. And well, some of them didn't need trains. Good job. Good job with these guys,

the young scouts that we have here that put them in a good position. Yeah, I mean, so going back to the draft, this is what's so interesting to me. College football, the landscape of it has changed so much, especially since I was in college, but, you know, NIL, but especially the transfer portal. And I know you're a small school guy. Like, you've drafted some incredible talent out of smaller schools. Like, how does the NIL and the transfer portal specifically affects scouting guys like, you know, Ali Marpet who went to Hobart or, you know, Cody Mock or, I don't know, Scotty Miller, some of these other guys who you've picked up on in the draft from small schools, how are they impacted by NIL in the transfer portal?

Well, I hope, I just kind of, I hope I'm wrong, but I kind of see the way it's going now with the portal that if there's a good player at Hobart, like Ali, he's not going to be at Hobart for long. They're going to convince him to come to one of the Power 5 or major schools because of the money and, you know, the prestige and all that. Now, there are certain guys like Allie who have their, the way they're wired, they don't want to leave their school. They don't want to do that to them. They like it where they're at. But I just kind of see, hopefully not, but fewer and fewer of those types of players. I mean, what school would want Cody Malker or Allie Morpett, you know, or David Walker,

I'm shocked that he was able to stay at Central Arkansas for as long as he was for as as he was. Yeah. And when you're evaluating a guy, not necessarily from a small school, but do you put, like, if there's a guy who is a really good player who's kind of stayed in the same spot, maybe it's a mid-level college, does that, you know, kind of tell you something specific about that guy? Do you maybe, you know, take note of that?

in your pre-draft visits and, you know, information gathering phase. Like, this is a dude who's loyal who hasn't moved around. Like, does that carry a lot of weight with you? It does carry some weight. It's definitely a plus. But it's also in these cases, like with Allie and David Walker, now they did go to the Senior Bowl and they played pretty well

against top competition. So we were able to see at least compare apples to apples there. So, but it is pretty cool deal that they do stay loyal to their. There's coaching staff, their school, all those kind of things. I think it tells you a little something about it. But that's not to say that if somebody does leave and wants an opportunity at a bigger school, that that that's not a check mark against them either. Yeah, no, I give what you mean.

That's my biggest gripe with the transfer portal is like, I love my time in Wisconsin at college. I don't feel that guys are going to have the same kind of consistent college experience that I love. but, you know, hey, the game, the game has evolved, and this is what it's become. Well, certainly they're not having the same kind of experience that I had. I don't know about you, but $50 went a long way for the beers on the weekend. And now they're making millions. I know. That was my one thing.

Everyone's like, you know, we'd be in the locker room and shit. And the guys from the SEC, be like, what did you get paid at school? I said, what fucker out. I remember after a big game, I got a free beer at Wandoes in Wisconsin. On the third floor and I was hyped about it. And that was like the only, like, you know, kind of freebie I got during me. my whole college career. Nowadays, these dudes are pulling up in Lambos and stuff to the facility. Oh, yeah. Financial team around them, you know, already know how to invest and, you know,

understand the market and all that stuff. Good for them, Jason. So you mentioned this already. I wanted to. I was excited to bring this up, but Mike Evans was your first ever pick as the GM for the Buccaneers. How did it feel in week 18 when you guys are playing the Saints in 2024 and you saw Mike have his 11th, 1,000 yards receiving season in a row. Like, what was that like for you to see your first ever pick do that, 11 years later? I honestly got choked up. It was, I mean, it was, that will go down as one of the top memories in my career. Just for, and you know Mike, just for what Mike, just for what he means to the team,

he's such a selfless superstar. And like my family, they all feel. like they know Mike like he's part of our family and I think everybody here feels that way too because he's one of those guys but just to see how the team just how the team responded for that i was i didn't think it was going to happen i was getting texts from bruce like told god to call fucking time out you know like the whole game like scenario leading up to that was so great because you guys were driving down the field and then ended up scoring and then everyone was like well fuck i don't think mike's going to get it and then to go out back on the field and

a game where, you know, like if you throw a pick, like, you could, the game is not quite secure, you know, and to really kind of force feed the ball to Mike and get him that record. And then to see everyone go crazy on the sidelines, like, I got chills. I was watching it. It was, it's just so cool, man. Like, you said it. Mike, he's the man. Everyone knows it. He deserves it.

Oh, yeah. I think, I think the, our last play before that series where we got Mike the ball, where we scored the touchdown, the play was supposed to go to Mike. was the same play that Mike got his thousand yards that they called, but, you know, the Saints were covering it. And Baker's like, shit, I guess it got throw to Bucky. Bucky scores. But they were like, oh, you know, I mean, we have to win the game. Everyone's, like, disappointed that Bucky went out and scored, like, the go-ahead touchdown, because I wanted Mike to get the record. To win the division. Yeah, exactly, exactly. All right. So I do want to talk a little bit, I mean, you mentioned, I wanted to talk a little bit

about the 2024 season. You talked about Bucky Irving. We've been talking about the draft evaluating young players. Were you expecting him to literally come out running the way he did as an unbelievable rookie for you guys last year?

I guess I had to be fully transparent. No, we knew that he was a talented runner. We knew that he was a fun runner to watch because of his instincts, his quickness, his make you missability, all that kind of stuff. And he's a stronger player than what his size tells you.

But I wasn't expecting, you know, quite what he did. I think if I would have expected that, I would have taken him in a lot higher than the fourth round. So I think the whole league, I think he shocked everybody in the league. And I would be lying if I said, no, we knew, right, that he was going to be what he was. That's why I'm a fucking GM, Bo. All right. I don't know what I'm doing.

You can say stuff like that. It's all right. Yeah, well, I'm, it's. But, yeah, he was, man, he was a lot fun. He's, and even, I mean, he's an awesome dude, too, man. He is just, he's always doing something to make himself. I've been training with him a little bit in the offseason down here. Oh, you know him.

And it's been fun. Yeah, so I've gotten to know him a little bit. And he's just one of those young players that's, like, good energy. And it's, like, fun to be around as a fucking washed up vet, you know, because I'm like, give me some of your energy today, man. He's a great guy. But really impressed with his play. And then, you know, the Bucks historically over the last five years,

the run game has been, you know, not as good as I'm sure you want it to be. So what was it about the 2024 season that kind of got the run game back on track? Was it Bucky? Was it Roshad? Was it the O line? Was there one thing in particular? I think it was all of them. And Kevin Carberry, Brian Pucci, I think Liam,

brought a great scheme in. We got Graham Barton, who's a hell of a player, a great center as a rookie, for them to get him as successful as he was for being a rookie. That says a lot about, you know, the coaching staff. And then, you know, Bucky and Rashad were a good one-two punch. And Sean Tucker, too. Yeah, he's pretty pleased with his, his 2024 season, I think. Yeah.

Well, yeah. I mean, he had to go in there in the Saints game. And all he did was rush for whatever it was, 170 or whatever it was. Yeah, I think it was more than that. So, but, yeah, so I think it was just a. combination of all those things. It was a fresh start in a lot of ways and I think we needed that. Yeah. And then the thing I was really impressed with too is you have in the 2024 season we can just, you know, I want to talk about this and then move on other stuff. But you have Mike go down,

Chris goes down. And those are your two top dogs on the offense, you know. And it didn't really feel like Baker missed the beat and you guys really got the run game going. So I think exactly what you're saying. It's a total testament to the just the, the, the, the, the entire. offensive staff and players offensively to kind of just figure out a way to get it done. It was awesome. It wasn't awesome that those guys were hurt. That's for sure. That was a kick in the gut, I should say, when that happened.

But for them, the coaches to get it schemed up where he had guys like Sterling Shepard and J. Mack step up, Ryan Miller. I mean, we had a lot of guys that Kate Otten ended up becoming a really crucial player for us. but for Baker to handle it all the way he did, that could scare a lot of quarterbacks off, spook him into saying, geez, I'm down, you know, two elite receivers. What am I going to do?

But he had the confidence to get through it. And everybody, he's a phenomenal leader, and everybody just kind of followed his lead. Yeah, I mean, I'm happy you brought up Baker. I love Baker. I think he's, you know, a great dude, a guys, guys. Just what you're saying. Like, he really galvanizes the locker room.

So looking back to like that 20-23 off-season, you take a guy like Baker, first overall pick, he's at a stage in his career where he is, you know, just kind of bounced around a little bit. It hasn't had the same opportunities at this stage as he did as a first overall pick. Like how do you evaluate a guy like that? And what was it about the situation for the Bucks

where you're like, yeah, we can bring him in and it will be successful? Well, there are a few things that play there. So one, we didn't have a lot of cap money at all. I mean, we were in such dire cap. I mean, it was, we had. Greenie was working. No, Greenie was working.

We, like, even after the draft right now, we guarantee some money for these undrafted guys. And, you know, I mean, so if they make a practice squad or your practice squad, you know, it offsets the guarantee. But we couldn't even guarantee a lot of money because we had no cap room. It was like literally it came down to the dollars. So he was affordable. at the time, he wanted to come here because he saw the talent, the receivers, the line, all those

things. And Todd knew him very well from his time in New York doing, you know, when they took Sam Darnold that year. But, you know, they got to know Baker and he always talked about Baker. And Bruce was always in my ear about Baker, how much he loved him. So it was kind of a perfect fit. And it just worked out. I think he finally found a place where everybody wanted him. and everybody was willing to, you know, fight for him and stand behind him. And I think it worked out. And I think there were some other things going on with him that, you know, that maybe he wasn't at his peak. But now it's behind him and he's got a fresh start.

And I think he loves it here in Tampa. And I hope he's here for a very long time. Yeah, it's fun to watch, man. I love Baker. He's so ratty. I mean, and I mean that in the best possible way. Like he's a competitor. He's got that juice.

And, like, I feel like all the guys in the locker room love him. And that shit goes such a long way, man. You know, you can relate to this. So somebody told me a long time ago in my beginning of my career, it's like, you're either a dude or you're not a dude. And, you know, you know right away. And Baker's just a dude, you know? He is that man.

Yeah, he is that man. Yeah. Well, I want to ask you about that, too, especially when we were talking about the draft. I saw on McAfee, you have the big image. you know, the fat head of Levanti up. And so you're telling me that every single guy that you compare to, you know, when you're evaluating them in the draft,

you look at that photo of Levanti and you say, he is that man. If he is, then you're good. And if he's not, he's off the board. Yeah, and there's different levels of that man. But it's, yeah, you have to, we're looking, like, Levanti is the epitome of it. You could say Mike Evans is too. You could say Godwin, you could say a lot of players.

We combined, you know, we went back and looked at the history of the league, really, the bucks we focused on, you know, guys like Derek Brooks and, you know, John Lynch and Ronde Barber is one of my best friends here and, and all these. And, you know, are they accountable? Do they love football? Do they have a lot of passion for it? Are they great teammates? Do they work hard? You know, all these things on the field in the locker room. You know, it's, you know, they may not be, you don't have to be, you know, earning your Boy Scout badges, you know, off the field. You, you don't want a criminal. Right. But you want to find a line to walk. You don't want a boy scout. You want a guy have some shit to him. It's okay if there's been a little bit. Hey,

I, if you went down my, I mean, if there were social media when I was in college, it'd be all kinds of stuff you can find on me. So, but it's, it's, uh, you know, you want, you want a good teammate, basically. You want a great teammate that it means something to be on the team and they're, they're going to, he's going to be behind his teammates. And, and that, that's Levanté and that's what we want. Yeah, totally. And we have a reoccurring segment on the pod is called fly on the wall and it's kind of you know if you could be a fly on a wall and you know any kind of situation what would it be so i was wondering if if you remember uh you know take us through if i was a fly on the wall when you guys are drafting uh like vita vea or mike

evans or chris godwin tris and werfs or winfield like do you remember drafting these key pieces and kind of some of the conversations that were had about them you know before you before you ultimately drafted them? Yeah. Well, going back to Mike, my first pick, I really went into that draft wanting to draft a quarterback, so I really wanted to draft Johnny Manzell. Really?

I was, so I spent, I blocked myself in my office watching quarterbacks that year, and I watched, you know, I wake up again, okay, I got to watch Johnny Mansell again, so let me watch it again. And every time I was watching it, it was just Mike would just make these spectacular, their catches like we know that he does right now. And it just came back to, like, when we talked about Mansell, I was like, well, did you see that one game?

And it was a, yeah, that's the one that Mike had the, you know, this and this. And it just became apparent that Mike was the guy, not, you know, that we wanted. Yeah. It was best for us. You know, like you mentioned Tristan. Tristan, that was the COVID draft. Yep. And I joke around a lot.

We got Tristan and Antoine in that draft. And I'm like, well, maybe we should all draft from home again. Yeah. I never, we were, we were so worried that we weren't going to get Tristan. And I was, we were trying to trade as much as high. We were sitting at 14. We were trying to go up to 9 and they didn't want to trade 10, 11, 12, 13. And finally, you know, I was just bound and determined to trade to get him.

So it turns out, you know, moved up one spot for a fourth rounder. It was spy tech that was doing that one. I had, I was responsible for some teams. SpyTech was. I had other people, Greenberg. some other teams, Jackie Davidson, but it turned out that the Niners were in tops with a team behind us, and they almost,

it was deciding whether to take our fourth or take more for a team behind us to come up to the pick, and thank God they did ours. So that's why I ended up giving up the fourth round pick. So two fourth round picks that year were for Tristan and Gronk, that was two of the best fourth round picks that we've had so far. Yeah, no kidding. That'll work for you. And I tell us, dude, I'll never.

forget that same year as COVID year you guys bring you draft Tristan and we're all training at Skyway I was training to be a new england patriot and I see this fucker walk out on the field and saw him move for like literally 30 seconds and I was just like yeah this guy is going to be an all pro it was oh yeah it was like one of the fastest easiest like yeah this is a guy you know what I mean he's so explosive for how big he is it's incredible and he's a dude yeah yep yeah so it was the first the first time he lined up in training camp that year, the first rep,

I went, okay, yep, we're good. Yeah, we're going to be out right here. All right, yeah. And you mentioned Gronk, so I got to ask you about Gronk. You were in New England in, what was it, 2011, which was Rob's rookie year.

And then obviously in Tampa, in 2021 for the end of his career, a little bookend with Rob. Did he... 2020. Got him in 2020. Oh, yeah, 2020. Yeah, that's right.

Did he develop at all? like was he i just imagine his mentality and kind of the guy he was being the exact same in the beginning of his career and the end of his career you know what i mean he was he was the same guy i mean he's not a you know he when he's when he makes a big play and he's into it he's having fun saying crazy stuff and no fun stuff you know and that's he's he's always just been the same it's not like he's out there being a class clown either he's very focused it was is it's just when when he talks It's just the funniest shit comes out of his mouth. It's like, one of those things where like, you know, I played against him a bunch and then obviously I met him and hang out with him in Tampa.

And it's one of those rare instances where you meet a guy and you're like, yeah, you're exactly what I thought you'd be. Yeah, exactly. But I had Cam and Rob on the podcast a couple weeks ago and Cam told a really funny story about when you guys first signed Rob. And, you know, Rob Grancowski, legend, best tight end of the game. And then Cam went out and was running routes with him at Berkeley because you guys couldn't train at, you know, at the facility. And he was, he said that Rob looked so slow, so out of shape. And that was the slowest he's ever seen an NFL football player run. Like, did you guys have any idea of that or did, you know, like, did you work him out or was it COVID and you couldn't get him in for a physical?

We couldn't. We couldn't work him out. I took, I took Brady's word for it. And, you know, I just, I wasn't too worried about it. You know, Rob was one of those guys that on air, he's going to really impress you, like being the most explosive, quickest guy. It's when he puts pads on is when he out leverages people and, you know, gets a second gear and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, and I'm shitting on Rob because he's my buddy and everything, but he is on that's the tight end of all time. And he's a fucking dog on the field.

And we all know that. It's just funny. It's just funny to hear Cam tell that story. But you brought up Tom. I want to ask you a little bit about Tom because you were with him. So that was, you had a double stint in New England, right? You were there in 99 to, what, 2002? And 99, you were a college scout.

Yeah. Right? So did you scout Tom to be drafted in the sixth round? Or how'd that unfold? I was the fully responsible for him becoming a, I'm joking. I was a southeast scout. He obviously played at Michigan.

I didn't watch any tape. I was focused on my area. You know, I heard the talks during the draft meetings and, and, you know, all that kind of stuff. I know that Bill and Scott Peolli was the personnel director,

and Bobby Greer actually was the last president player personnel during the draft, and then he left after the draft. But he had Michigan ties. And so I, a lot of positive things about him. And I know that Bill ended up putting him on the board, Bill and Scott, like basically in that second, third round area.

But we didn't need a quarterback at the time. And then he was like staring at him in the face in the sixth round. So he took him. But he did, his credit, he had him very high for all of the things that Tom is. He knew about that. Yeah. Now I didn't know if he knew that he was going to be a Hall of Fame for a, you know, quarterback. Right.

Well, and that's so interesting because obviously come full circle, ends his career in Tampa. And I think that's one thing that I've always been curious about, because Tom came down to Tampa. I went up to New England. I didn't play for New England. You guys won the Super Bowl that year. And I feel like he, I've heard so many guys that I played with talk about how he elevated the locker room, how he, you know, guys were, you know, Tristan has told me this before. He's like, I'm going to play my best fucking football. I'm blocking for Tom Brady, you know, stuff like that. And it's always curious to me because I'm wondering, does that ripple effect, you know, go into other areas of the building as well, the front office. Did he elevate, you know,

to bring him into the building, elevate the front office as well? He absolutely did because it was like watching, I don't know, it's kind of like watching Babe Ruth in his final years, you know, I mean, the legend and didn't know how long he was going to be there. So I didn't want to let him down. I wanted to put as many, do attempt to get his, the best, put the best team around him as possible. Um, and didn't want to let him down. And then there's been stories about what I had John, SpyTech, and Rob McCartney meet with him on a weekly basis over our opponent. And that elevated there. I mean, they put a lot of time into this.

So Tom knew everything about the opponent. And then, I mean, he elevated the social media game. He elevated, you know, the business science. Sports science, ticketing. I mean, he elevated everybody. So, and we're still filling the ripple effects. It's still, we still talk about, you know, it has. hasn't been that long. We tell the rookies that they always ask, a lot of them, most of them

ask what was Tom like? And then we kind of go into stories out that you wouldn't believe how hard he worked. It didn't, this just didn't just happen by accident. Yeah, I mean, he set the standard for everyone in the building, whether it was players to, you know, personnel staff and everything like that. Did that teach you stuff about like evaluating and developing quarterbacks, too, or is he just kind of a one-off freak haul? A little bit. You know, he would, We would talk on a daily basis all the time about different quarterbacks and what it takes, I mean, because I'd like to get inside his head as much as I could. And then we formed a really strong relationship.

We talked to this day. We text all the time. Not all the time, but often. And so I don't know. He's just a cool person to talk to getting his side of things. He's kind of like a lot of ways like Belichick, where, and you know Bill, from, I know you were worth there a long time, but Bill has just a way of simplifying it to the core. And you're like, well, shoot, you're almost upset that you're disappointed.

You thought that there'd be some long, drawn out reason why you do things. It's like, no, this is why. And you're like, oh, okay. No, I mean, that was my biggest takeaway. And I was on IR when I was in New England and it was COVID pandemic year. Everything shut down. So I was just like, I'm going to sit here and, you know, be a fly on the wall, absorb all this information. And what you said is so true.

I would sit in those meetings. and he just, he has this way of breaking down football and making it seem so simple and straightforward that, but in ways that you kind of, you don't have the experience or knowledge to do. Right, you overlook, yeah. Yeah, and it was such a great learning opportunity for me. And so that's actually another thing I would ask you

is because you've been doing this for a long time with Don Shula, Jimmy Johnson, you know, with Bill, with Andy Reed, you know, with BA, all these great coaches. and Andy Reid and Bill are probably two of the best to ever do it. Is there, are they kind of unifying universal traits that you've noticed watching these coaches? And is there like one or two things that all these guys do? Are each of them kind of, they're independent guys who have their own process? They're all a little different, but one thing, I talked about this recently a couple times interviews.

One thing that they have in common, and I think it's a very strong trait for a coach, is they don't have, the sky is never falling. Like if you're on a losing streak, they stay the same. If you're out four starters for, you know, your big game against your division rival, it's not, oh, we're going to lose for sure. It's, all right, let's get these guys ready. You know, that's what we got to coach them. We've got to make some adjustments and we've got to do this.

And this isn't going to stop us from, you know, doing what we're doing. And, you know, it's, they're all like this because I've seen the opposite. And then that mentality then it takes up as a ripple effect into a locker room because you guys as players can see that. Yeah. And sense that when you can sense and smell it. Yes. You know. Yeah.

You get a little uneasy as a player when your coach is freaking out, you know. But we have that kind of confidence when you're an elite coach, like what you're saying, like there's just this calm confidence that kind of permeates through the locker room as well. Like, B.A. B.A. was awesome. We would meet on Thursday afternoons. It was like our weekly, we'd go have beers, right? Or drinks, whatever. He would drink Captain and Coke.

And he, Captain, diet. He said, that's what I drink when I'm not drinking. And so he would, I would say, you know, it looks like, you know, Mike's going to be out this game. He's like, all right, babe, we'll be fine. You know, cool, babe. You know, like, well, the young guy's got to get ready. You know, I mean, it's just, it makes me feel good, you know.

That's great. I mean, as a player, you love that too. All right, Jason, I got some fun questions for you if you're willing to bear with me here. Got through some of the more interesting stuff. I think the one thing I want to ask you is, like I said, you've been doing this since fucking, what, 1995? Yeah. Is there one player in the draft or free agency that you kind of, is it like you're the one that got away that you really want to get, whether it was draft free agency? but just slipped away

and you always think about it? There's so many. I mean, it really happens a lot. But then usually, usually it's the players that we like wanted that got away a lot of times or that we were going to draft and somebody took in front of us, I'll be honest with you,

it happens for a reason. And we've got a text thread with the scouting department where it's a, you know, you know, the guy dodging bullets in slow motion. Yeah, the Matrix. Yeah, the Matrix. We dodged one, you know. So I can't think of one offhand that really, really got a way that we wanted.

But there's, I mean, it happens a lot. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, when we drafted Chris Godwin, we had another receiver that we were going to take. And he went, like, almost right before us. And we're like, well, I guess I'll take Godwin, you know. Yeah. That one worked out for you, Jay. I guess that lasted a year in the league.

So, yeah. So along those same kind of threads like story career, a lot of legendary players, Dan Marino, all the Vince Wilfork, all the all-time great, Mike Vrable, all the great Patriots, Brady, obviously, Rob. Callais Campbell, I think, was a rookie in 2008 when you were in Arizona. He's playing now 20 years later, which is wild. But is there one guy that you remember. seeing for the first time play and just being like holy shit it was dan merino it was my first year

in the league i mean god his release was so fast i mean it was just amazing how fast he can throw that ball and and i was a like basically like a intern and i would uh i would have to stand next to him at practice and hold his dip and uh and then we became like that's a prestigious role jason it was it was And I had to write the play down on a white board and hold it up. And that was basically my job during the season. But anyway, so I became like, he started calling me Jay, you know, and then he'd start asking me to do some other things for him and kind of gained his trust.

And I just had been asked to go to Thanksgiving by one of my bosses, Tom Brotz, he was our college director of this unbelievable man. I passed away a few years ago, but he was awesome. One of my favorite people of all time. But he asked me to come to Thanksgiving. And I said, yeah, I love to go to your house. Thanksgiving. So then I go out to practice and Marino goes, hey, we want you over at the house for Thanksgiving. And I was like, oh, my God. I get. He was my hero. I guess. I go, I can't. I just said,

oh, my God. I was trying to think, how can I get out of this? So anyway, but I said, I can't. I'm going with Broughts. And then Bernie Kosar comes strolling up. He goes, hey, Jay, Bet and I want you to come to Thanksgiving at the house. Marina goes, if you say yes, I will cut your balls off. It's a good popular guy. Yeah, I couldn't believe it. Yeah. I couldn't believe it. I love hearing those old stories about like these players that obviously, you know, weren't in my era, but are fucking legends for a reason. It's great to hear those. Okay, a couple more questions about Bucks players.

Who's the most underrated buck? Levante David. I had a feeling you were going to say that. So I was going to say, who's the most underrated buck on the roster not named Levanti David? Well, there's, I think we have quite a few. I don't think people realize how good Colizier Cansey is. Yeah. as a disruptive three technique.

He's, I mean, this kid is, these kids really good. Yeah. I saw him saying that he's expecting to have double sacks sometime soon, and I hope so. Dude, he is, he's explosive, man. Like, he's, I was a D-Lyman. Obviously, I played D-Line for the Bucks,

but I watch his tape, I'm like, God damn, I couldn't do that shit, you know? Like, he's, he's good. He's a good player. I kind of have a feeling how this one's going to go, and you don't have to answer this if you don't want to. Chris Godwin, Levante, David, Baker Mayfield.

Fuck Mary Kill. I'm going to pass on that. Okay, yeah, a little awkward because it's, you know, all players on the roster. So let me rephrase that question with players that are no longer on the Bucks roster. Cambrate, Allie Marpet, Bo Allen, fuck Mary Kill. I'm going to pass on this. All right. Yeah, I kind of figured you might.

Right now I kind of feel like killing you. Yeah, I get that a lot, Jason. This is a very serious podcast. Big Media Enterprise here. There was black smoke last week. A Pope was selected. What do you mean black smoke? Yeah, what do you mean by that?

It would be white smoke. There was white smoke last week. I thought it was black smoke. No, it's green smoke. It's black smoke when it hasn't been because the conclave met twice. Black smoke was first. Yeah. Because it wasn't selected.

White smoke because Pope Leo the. 14th. Thank you. Was, is named the News Pope for the Catholic Church. He is Robert Francis Provost. Prevost? Yeah, yeah.

Well, you better figure out how to say it. He's the 267th leader of the Roman Catholic Church. He's the first ever U.S. born Pope and the first pope from the Augustine order. That's a lot of leaders.

Yeah. Well, you figure. You know, they're all old. Long time. It's been a long time. Oh, yeah, the only served a little of a long.

10, 20 years. So he was just currently, like, living in Chicago? No. No, no. Where's he at? He's like a cardinal in the Vatican. Yeah. He's also been in South America.

Okay. He grew up in Chicago. Yep. People in Chicago were super proud. Also went to Villanova. My parents went. went to school there, yeah, Philly. Cats.

Yeah, it's a very relevant Pope. There's a lot of places the first American Pope could be from that everybody would be like, oh, cool. First Pope. Chicago's not one of them. First Pope to watch Nate Collins play football. You don't know that for sure. He has to be. Is he a big Bears fan?

He has to be a Bears fan. I don't know. Chicago. You have to be. I don't know if he is. I think he seems like a bigger baseball. and, oh, no, he's not a Bulls fan. He's a Knicks fan.

That's what it was. He's a Knicks fan. So he's a Bears and. Bears, White Sox, baseball? White Sox. So he might have seen Nate Collins throw out the first pitch, too, if he's a white socks fan. He's definitely, he was on TV at a White Sox game. Did you see this?

Yeah, World Series. World Series. 2005, or whenever that was, we were in college. Definitely the first pope to have sex in a stairwell. You think that has? happen for sure. Yeah, an American teen. Is that where everybody's fucking? Who among us?

I've never had sex in a stairwell. And a stairwell? Like a stairwell with stairs? No, I understand what a stairwell is. Mission out. You like stairwells, too? Stairwell at your home. You're a stairwell guy? How about one of those? Stairwell at your home? I've had sex so much.

You know? I don't remember. I don't like take notes after every time. stairwell? Yeah, dude. Stairwell, come on. Really? Yes. Huh. We're four for four in this room. The railing. Your stairwell too? You can use the railing for different things. Leverage. I understand, but like, dude, I live in a ranch style home for the most part. No, it doesn't have necessarily, we're not saying necessarily at the house. Leo the 14th had sex in the stairwell. You haven't had sex on a stairwell? Oh, that makes me a fucking prude. Look at this guy

Has he had Oh what Go ahead Looking in Placing that bet Yeah dude He's calling in a bet on the socks You know the fact that he is

From Chicago I thought when we were thinking About things that he's probably done That most popes haven't I was thinking like got beat up Real fucking bad Just like got his ass kicked Like somebody's

Somebody's like Oh I beat the fuck out of the Pope Back in the day There's also somebody that to your point It was like Yeah I suck the Pope which is just a wild thing to say somebody's walking around saying it when do they do they take a vow of celibacy at some point is this what I believe so yeah I'm pretty sure that covers

stairwells too I don't know why you assume he's as a teen he's not like so take the vow at 15 yeah and a stairwell at 15 no I think if you're going to be the pope you know it at like wait how long way way way so like you don't even jack off We're about to get into some really bad Pope questions, but there's no such thing as a bad Pope question. If you're in the running to be the Pope in your mind, you don't even look at nudie magazines. When they are ordained,

so when, how long is the gap from being ordained to being a pope? How big is that gap? Like 30 years? Let's find out. Yeah, he's like 70 now. Yeah. No, so he got ordained when he was 40?

He was ordained in, 1982. So when you celibacy, that means no sex, no more, no more kids. So like, once you decide to do this shit, like you can't have kids anymore, right? Right. Have any popes have kids? No.

Oh, really? That would mean they had sex. You can, you don't take that vow of celibacy and that's what I'm saying. So after. Yes, the number of popes have Wow. Bang, dang. Yes. Both legitimately and illegitimately. That's what I thought about mobs. There's definitely

illegitimate pope. Hey, you could still be a pope. For sure. There's definitely, for sure. What? There's definitely a bunch of little Pope John Snow's out there

running around. Yeah. Little what? John Snow popes. What's the John Snow? Born out of wedlock. Oh, okay. But like, Popelock, actually.

Poplock. Illigimate, like, illegitimate meaning they had a baby after they, yeah, they vowed the celibacy. Or out of their quiet. Yeah. That's tough because, you know,

the monks, they're just like they don't even know how it feels the popes they know how it feels and they're shunning it right which is tough because you've been inside you know if you want to have bad experiences though so it could have been like how bad do you think the pussy was to drive

to the pope? Man you know I don't know if you want to learn yeah I'm good I'm good on that I'm good on that. I think I'm going to go to South America

where I can't have sex. I'm going to South America. I can't have sex there. This is a list of sexually active popes. On Wikipedia. No way. This is the best Wikipedia entry ever. Pope's getting a part of St. Peter.

Let's read about that. Pops who are legally married, St. Peter. Okay. Who reigned from 30 AD to 68 AD. 30 AD to 64 AD Rain to Cums Dang I'm saying

They killed Felix the 3rd's wife Offspring They killed his wife Yeah look Whittle Ray before his election As Pope They got her out of there

You think they killed her They just said she was widowed Could have been anything Could have been syphilis from Nah they had to They had to keep it going You got to be celibate No wives

you guys really can't judge these guys you guys have been fucking in stairwells all these guys the like middle ages 1500s yeah let's go to some more recent yeah let's go all the way down okay leo pope leo the 7th the 12th not my leo you got it 1823 to 1829 oh he wasn't married allegedly three children oh wow having a liaison with a wife of a switzerland guard soldier? Damn. That Pope definitely got his ass kick. Bro, if you're the soldier, can you be like,

damn, I've got to fight? Ah, it's the fucking Pope. No, he's not the Pope yet. You can't. Is he the Pope yet? Hey, Cowboy, in this entry, can you do Control F and then type in the word stairwell? Bro.

They can do a witcher call. That's a cool feature. They could make a damn, like, they could make a, like, a Game of Thrones type series at all this stuff. No results return. Damn, all right. Yeah, no, no, like. Can you give me to like a 1900s?

Whoa, I just saw the word homosexuality, which I'm fine with. But maybe they aren't in the Vatican. Somebody was posthumously accused of homosexuality. Uh-oh. Look at Paul the stuff. Leo the 10th. Damn, they waited until he died. Leo X.

Or like Leo Triple X. Ha, ha. Do you feel me? Hey, does anybody want to read Paul the second's entry up there? Okay. Thought to have died of indigestion arising from eating melon. Through his opponents alleged, though his opponents alleged he died while being sodomized by a page?

What's a page? Like an assistant. Yeah. A what? Like an assistant. Way, way, way, way, wait. So he got fucked to death. By an assistant.

By his assistant. Yeah. And where the hell does the ind- Did they have an A-Char? Bro. So they found him Fuck to death And to clean it up

They're gonna say They had bad meh He had Vatican PD He had indigestion From a melon There's a What?

What I'm gonna tell you There's a We got a Cardinal down Pope Paul the second is dead Fuck to death Uh 21 1069 69 69 69

go grab that melon um can't sprinkle some melon on them not gonna be canonizing this one uh pink smoke that's crazy there's a page running away from the scene with the

with an erection so there's a page running away from the scene with an erection no what sucks about this too 5A white male huge cow so wait wait Wait, wait, wait. What? What? What? What? What job is the page have?

Huh? What job does the page regularly have? He was an assassin was more like it. Yeah, I know. But like, what are they like, are they like? It's an inside job, if you know what I mean. Was it like, was this like, was this like a revenge thing? Like, I'm sick of this. Is he like a servant? Is he like a page like a servant? Was he like, I'm sick of this? I'm sick of this. I'm gonna fuck you to death. Fuck you to death right now. Yo, he's in the seventh circle of hell. He fucked. He killed a Pope. A Pope.

That's crazy. Bro, but that's nuts. Like, we're like, we're like, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, do you think he called it? You think he called it the Pope killer? The spectrum? Oh, my God. You think he, he's like, yeah, might, call it the Pope killer, mate. Oh, he's Australian.

Oh, he's Australian. a 5-8 Australian That's where all the criminals were Australia used to be a big prison They definitely sent him down to Australia Hey when he walked in It was like clank and they were like That's the guy that killed the Pope

Can Melons give you indigestion Who's punking up with the page What are you in for Killing the Pope, mate? I wonder if Melons can even give you indigestion honestly melons yeah like where's the ladder for that like fuck to death or indedestion from melon oh uh how many people how many people you think die from like like you think more people get killed from like getting fuck to death or or melon or like indigestion

well gurd is really serious ultimately is that is gurd like yeah is that indigestion like like real bad heartburn right eventually it can erode the lining of your esophagus and cause all types of problems. But like eventually, that's not like sudden. Like, this had to be like sudden, right? I would venture to say a lot more old people are dying while fucking than, like, in present day. Yeah, you can blame that on the ticker, though. The incident of death during sexual activity is extremely rare.

10 to 20 deaths per year. Oh, that's way low. That's low. Maybe in stairwells. Yeah, no, honestly. getting your steps in. Hey, I've got a fear of that.

You know? Yeah. Try creatine. Yeah, creatine helps. Oh. I kind of like just reading Wikipedia. Dude, on this,

this is death during consensual sex. Death during consensual sex Wikipedia page. Pope John the 12th. Our guy. No way. Well, one story relates that he died of a paralytic, paralytic stroke. Paralytic stroke suffered while having sex with a woman named Stefanetta. Oh.

He may have died instead. That's the problem. He may have died instead when the woman's husband defenstated him. Can we look that up? Edda. Is the act of throwing someone or something out of the window? That's badass. Or beat him to death with a hammer during the act.

You want to get defenstrated, bitch? Defenestrated. President of France is wildly reported to have died while receiving fallacio from his mistress. Which one's that? Oh. The cause of death was listed as a cerebral hemorrhers. Damn, she gave that ill-stoppy copy. I witnesses stated he was in the state of partial address.

Yo. Wow. She gave the bomb. She gave the killer head. she gave him some poor head. What if both happened? Like the reason he couldn't get away is because he had a stroke. Some claimed.

Sorry. Oh, a similar. That's just busting a fat nut, right? Like, if you hemorrhage in your head, yeah, hell yeah. That's crazy.

Yo, Nelson Rockefeller died in 1979 of a heart attack at age 70, rumor to be caused by an orgasm during intercourse. With his secretary, Megan Marshack. The New York Magazine quipped. Nelson thought he was coming, but he was going. That's good. Oh, that's good.

I would have gotten there. That's good. You know what else is good? Lord Palmerston, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. You know what else is good, Chris? Go ahead. These creatine gummies. Yeah, they are.

Keep eating them. How many have you had over there? Just the daily dose of three. Okay. The recommended number. Why don't I feel like you're going to eat the whole bag? No, I'm happy for a while. You're going to get jacked.

What are the things that an American Pope has done? Man, I did not know that they were allowed to have sex. so really opens the door for a lot. Well, you know, think about it. Like, when are you making that call if you're not? So he's gotten shit-faced at like a bar. Yes. For sure.

Right? Yeah. Probably gambled. He might have gambled on double doink. No, that was too recent. He definitely watched double doink. He's... You think he ever had a Frank Thomas jersey?

He would have seen... I think he watched his... The new Jannix commercials and he's like, that's fucking funny. You know what I wonder about? What? If the popes, if they do have sex or if they were known for having sex, what are the groupies like? Pope groupies? Yeah.

Like they're probably like, I know you hate this, but. Like they're sliding in the DMs and dressing him as his holiness? Mm-hmm. He was 15 in the year 19. 70, making him 20 and 75. He's probably done the marijuana. You think so? Yeah.

Okay. Dream's not dead. First, you think, you think, um, collected sports cards? You think all the other popes in different countries are collecting sports cards? Maybe. That's a good question, maybe. If he's a baseball fan, he definitely had baseball cards. Yeah.

I have a strong suspicion he's been beating up bad, like in high school. you know i just love picturing somebody walking around being like i kicked the pope's ass you know what i mean or someone walking around like what if he was the bully pope kicked my ass what about that that guy that guy kicked my ass before pope fucked me up dude pope fucked me up he was laying pipe to my girlfriend and he turned around beat my ass that's how pop's do he fucking his fucking his girlfriend It is there while I threw me down the stairs The Pope

What's the word? Defenestration Definistrated me down the stairs Fuck that's funny I'll never think about the popes the same Here I was I thought they were these perfect people No Nobody is

Nobody is not even the popes Tim Tebow More perfect than the popes Tim Tebow would make a good Pope Pope Tebow Stay away from the melon Take care